I have a theory

[sm0k1t]

I think in a long run of ages that we , the human race, are gods and maybe in 1000000 years monkeys will be gods if they obtain reason wich some species of monkeys actually do. Untill all of what we can learn on this planet, this solar system and why not the universe is known we might be ourselves creating life.

But not a God like the all mighty perfect God, Jah or whatever other names other religions name them. Just gods that can create and manipulate, in a mathematical precision, life.

I really dont know the reason why we exist and why we have a conscience of all this infinity now but what I do know is that the evolution of species tend to upgrade all forms wether its physical, physiological or psychological and its seems that evolution is coded somewhere, in a living cell, organism or whatever is biologicaly alive or exist naturally. Of course we are not there yet but thank God for genetics and our inspiration and creativity =)

and cannabis of course =D
peace :rasta:

[BestTonicIsChronic]

Have you done salvia? I unno I got the same way after I did it, real philiosophical n' shit. Ive caught myself wondering the same thing. Heres one for you, what was there before the there was everything, nothing, right? But how can everything come from nothing. Or what if there was no nothing before everyting but then how can everything last forever and be forever. What started it, did something started, what made it?

I could go on for hours on this thought.

[Krogith]

The fact is There was ither No matter (atoms,antimatter) or there was allways Matter. You have to except that Some how There has always been Matter. Nothing will allways produce nothing. Something is here now so has always been, It Could not of just formed. Hard as it is Something, Some form of Matter has exsisted. ( For time to exsist something has to be clocking it such as a proton rotating around a Atom) Time would not exsist untell Matter was there so in that sence ( Matter is Time) :smokin:

[Polymirize]

Nothing will allways produce nothing. Something is here now so has always been, It Could not of just formed.

Either something has always been

OR

absolute spontanity is possible, something can arise from nothing, and our entire conception of causality goes out the window.

I actually lean more towards the 2nd answer...

[Moose101]

What if I'm the god and you guys are all a creation of my subconscience. Now if only I can figure out how to manipulate my subconscience into making Jessica Biel appear in front of me nekkid.

[Polymirize]

What would the point be? She'd only be in your head. Solipsism is a lonely place...

[Krogith]

Either something has always been

OR

absolute spontanity is possible, something can arise from nothing, and our entire conception of causality goes out the window.

I actually lean more towards the 2nd answer... ok where is your proof that something can come from absolute nothing ( being in a world where everything is something) ?Show me where something came from nothing (void) emptyness?:smokin: what do you mean? i don;t get your defence....:smokin:

[mrdevious]

Again, people are struggling with how existence came to be because they believe there is a clear and definite distinction between "something" and "nothing".

[BestTonicIsChronic]

This just hit me. What if everything came from one conciousness, and that one created everything, ie God. But where did that one thing get the conciousness?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

heeey! welcome the new SSW to the forums! DUDE YOU are my apprentice now!


Best i hereby take you under my wing, to learn and grow under the tutelage of philsophy itself.


chat me on MSN, i can take your mind through some loops, just hope you can keep up with me! i tend to get ahead of myself ;)

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

how about i share a little philosophy again :P


reality is simply one demensional. it contains itself within itself, etc.

simply put, infinity.

the mind is what makes exististance, if there is a thought, it exists, if there is no thought, everything surrounding the lack of thoughts, does not exist.

(look at that, divison! existance and non existance!)

what does exist will evolve mentally, changing it's thought chemistry, so to speak. what thoughts create a single human thought, or emotion?

what are the thoughts that are associated with the effects of the electricity that sustains your ability to think through your body's brain?


while we're on the issue, let's jsut point out that thoughts exist without the brain, a brain is merely a transformer of thought from the mind to the body. in other words, the thoughts that controll the body are different before they reach the brain, which then transforms the thoughts into chemicals and electrical currents, which then continue the process of making the brain think it is thinking!


continuing on, what are the thoughts that create a single thought that we may think, for example, rock.

there are more thoughts than images of pebbles and stones, more thoughts into each letter associated to the WORD that we think, using thoughts.

we think the word out, sound it in our heads, that's at least 4 letters, and how many thoughts are associated with each different effect of each letter? the combining of their properties and the thinking out how it is pronounced all contribute to thousands of thoughts.

this brings in thought association.

since we're taught to speak, our thought association jumbles what we think when we are thinking.

before words, we probably immagined a flavor, or something obscure when we wanted milk.

after a while that it would likely have evolved to the image of a bottle or breast, as well as the flavor. but when we are taught to speak, our thoughts change drastically, everything has a name now. and names require more thought process as comapired to that of images, sounds, flavors, and emotions. perhaps instinct is the proper word for this, im not sure, but there is an impulsiveness that is obscured under language and 'other' thoughts.

[mrdevious]

while we're on the issue, let's jsut point out that thoughts exist without the brain, a brain is merely a transformer of thought from the mind to the body. in other words, the thoughts that controll the body are different before they reach the brain, which then transforms the thoughts into chemicals and electrical currents, which then continue the process of making the brain think it is thinking!


Just wondering SSW, this sounds like you're a proponent of cartesian dualism. Would I be correct?

[Polymirize]

how passe... Doesn't he realise that everythings changed since Kant?

[Polymirize]

ok where is your proof that something can come from absolute nothing ( being in a world where everything is something) ?Show me where something came from nothing (void) emptyness?:smokin: what do you mean? i don;t get your defence....:smokin:


What do you mean my proof? I don't have any, that's why it's philosophy and not empirical science.
My defense is to say I simply reject your premises as necessary. And perhaps as contingent as well. Give me one good reason why eternalism?

[Krogith]

I have to look out side of our mere lifes of 100 year.... I have come to a conclushion that this is all but a cort case to decide a essential Fact of the universe.... from my stand point or yours we can not and will not KNOW forshure ither side, imo what we are experiencing is all a tiny speck in a much larger sceam of things and our (soul or thought process) will be given a truely fair judgeing ...... All we can do is make a most reasonble solution in our head... If you belive theres no god thats is fine how could you were in a hell hole of shit i do see your side i just have explanition of why certain things are the way they are at this time.....

[Polymirize]

If you belive theres no god thats is fine how could you were in a hell hole of shit i do see your side i just have explanition of why certain things are the way they are at this time.....

I'm not an atheist. I think that whole position is based on a reductionist attitude that is taken when a simple mind attempts to approach the infinite. Its a grasping for a grounding certainty, similar to that found in most religions. Man is, regardless of race or creed, human all too human afterall.

I'll admit from the start that God is beyond my understanding. I can't capture God or the infinite in a sentence, and I have a hard time taking seriously those people who think they can. I don't know, maybe they've actually got it, but then my god is a more powerful god, I just can't tell you how.

So let's just put God aside... Something from nothing? Is that more outrageous than one eternal thing existing without beginning or end? How do you make the choice between two equally illogical things? A metaphysical distinction that will never be demonstrated one way or the other?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

Just wondering SSW, this sounds like you're a proponent of cartesian dualism. Would I be correct?

i wouldnt know lol i dont recognize the word "cartesian". it's not in my mental encyclopedia. hehe



why do you ask?

[sm0k1t]

Have you done salvia? I unno I got the same way after I did it, real philiosophical n' shit. Ive caught myself wondering the same thing. Heres one for you, what was there before the there was everything, nothing, right? But how can everything come from nothing. Or what if there was no nothing before everyting but then how can everything last forever and be forever. What started it, did something started, what made it?

I could go on for hours on this thought.

nope never done salvia but I just read about it and seems like a cool experience...I'd like to try it so can anyone tell me where there is good salvia and also tell me how you liked it please.

as for the question of existance well...I dont know if it poped up from nothing or if its infinity cause like Polymirize said both is illogical and beyond our understanding...but what I do know is that we discover things and we try to learn and understand the ever changing world that we live in. Through evolution we upgrade to survive our existing environment so I thought that maybe if we keep upgrading our minds we'll be closer to a logical answer but then again maybe the mind aint the tool to know this? or maybe it is but it needs help of some sort that we dont understand yet...just imagine what we think we understand and compare it to what we do not understand that maybe we do but just dont know it yet. Many possibilities, many reasons, purpose or none at all!!! I'll continu this later....
peace :rasta:

[mrdevious]

i wouldnt know lol i dont recognize the word "cartesian". it's not in my mental encyclopedia. hehe



why do you ask?

Descartes was a 17th century British philosopher who had the same theory you were talking about, known as "cartesian dualism". Kant apparently debunked the theory which is accepted by most philosophers today, though it's not necessarily false since as quantum physics has recently shown (and as the Buddha earlier proposed), matter, energy, and supposedly "non-existence" in the fabric of universal space-time are not actually separate types of existence, but different manifestations of the same fabric of universal reality. All matter is energy, all energy is actually force fields, those force fields are merely space-time fluctuations in a consistent state, space-time itself is manifestation of the laws of the fabric of reality. Hence, and why I stated earlier, it's not a simple case of "something" coming out of "nothing", because the two aren't separate entities. This also explains what gravity is and why it acts the way it does.
Now I did read Stephen Hawking's explanation of how the first space-time fluctuation occured to create "existence", but it was many years ago and I can't really remember now. All I remember is something to do with subatomic matter and anti-matter particles appearing for about 1/1,000 of a second then disappearing from canceling each other out, and how this process could be interrupted to allow the first matter particle to remain in existence.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

it's all thought. lol nonexistance is a single mind and our e3xistance is an illusion cast from thereof, which, in fact, has also cast the illusion upon itself that it is seperate entities in a vast infinity.


or should i just say ourselves lol rather than to satasfy the illusion.



oh, also, tell me about this kant.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

shoot also, to make sure no one mis understands,

everything is one demensional, which, consequently, permits everything to be true given the proper mindset. every individual thought can act together to form bigger thoughts. that's all there is. is thought, and the infinite manifestations of it.

[mrdevious]

hmmmm, are you saying that our thought creates existence or that existence only exists for us and is relevant to us according to our thoughts perceptions?

kant.... I seem to be too stoned to remember kant's doings right now, but I didn't study him as thoroughly as I should have anyway. wikipedia would be your best bet I suppose.

and on a bright note, I've been dry for 2 weeks until today I was in pain and my mom said she saved me some weed she found a few months ago:D . man, I love everybody again.

[harmonicminor]

anyone know about the superstring theory or holographic reality?? It goes a step ahead of quantum physics.
all matter is made of energy. think of what atoms are made up of. this energy therefore can be made of pure thought. where does this thought come from???? other dimensions maybe????
now back to the first post on evolution....
if that were possible I think mankind would have evolved more in the past 10,000 years or so.
monkeys would have evolved into man but nope they are still in the woods swinging from trees are they not??? sure they resemble man but thier genetic code has always been different and always will be.

[Euphoric]

if that were possible I think mankind would have evolved more in the past 10,000 years or so.
monkeys would have evolved into man but nope they are still in the woods swinging from trees are they not??? sure they resemble man but thier genetic code has always been different and always will be.

chimpanzees share 98% of our genetic code. They are not "less evolved humans" but rather a species that has evolved seperately from us from a common ancestor


evolutionevolutionevolutionevolutionevo |---(sentient machines
evolutionevolutionevolutionevolutionevo|
evolutionevolutionevo|----(humans)-----(psi humans
evolutionevolutionevo|
(primate) -----
evolutionevo|
evolutionevol|_____(chimpanzee)----?


People have been getting taller for hundreds of years..
Homo sapiens purpose was to develop technology and possibly to spread life to another world, the species before to develop communication and tools. Our next evolutionary phase must be very close. Many believe the next evolutionary step for us is to develop psychic awareness. :D
Or maybe we are at the end of this line of development and will go extinct, giving rise to sentient machines.

[Polymirize]

Decartes was actually French.

And Kant's major contribution was a theory of mind in which time and space where the mental intuitions by which the mind sorts all empirical data. But these intuitions were a given, arising not from the mind but from the "noumenal" realm (as opposed to phenomenal, which is the physical reality). This noumenal/phenomenal distinction, the boundary between the seen and unseen worlds allows for the compatabilism between freedom and determinism for Kant, who proposed that it is only through following the moral law that we become free.

It's a compatabilist ontology, more of a dual-aspect theory than the Cartesian substance dualism which Buddha definately was NOT a proponent of...

[harmonicminor]

I never thought of that euphoric. :-)
but then think of this.......
did all of the different human races evolve separately on thier continents or whatever and then just happen to almost be identical????

[mrdevious]

Decartes was actually French.

thank you for correcting me there, I'm surprised I didn't guess that considering his obviously French name lol.




It's a compatabilist ontology, more of a dual-aspect theory than the Cartesian substance dualism which Buddha definately was NOT a proponent of...

Not sure if that's in regard to my previous post; but just to clarify, I was talking about Buddha's theory on the nature of reality, not him being a proponent of Cartesian Dualism (which I can't say I'm crazy over myself).

[mrdevious]

I never thought of that euphoric. :-)
but then think of this.......
did all of the different human races evolve separately on thier continents or whatever and then just happen to almost be identical????

Apparently we all came from Africa, I've seen some interesting maps on where humans migrated to during the paleolithic era. It looks like we came from Southern Africa and moved gradually northward till we reached Israel. at which point 4 groups broke off; 1 to Europe, 1 to Iraq, 1 to india, and 1 to the Yello River region of China. The Chinese factions went to Korea (and eventually japan, which was still attached to Korea as of 11,000 years ago), and others went to the north and eventually moved across to alaska and the northern regions of North America. I'm not really sure how the South American natives got there though, that would be really interesting to find out. I've always wondered if the Aztecs were a faction split from the early Egyptians considering the similarities in their architectural knowledge (their buildings and temples look almost like egyptian architecture at it's earliest stages), similarities in religious heirarchy, and this is just speculative but their names seem to sound very egyptian to me.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

hmmmm, are you saying that our thought creates existence or that existence only exists for us and is relevant to us according to our thoughts perceptions?

kant.... I seem to be too stoned to remember kant's doings right now, but I didn't study him as thoroughly as I should have anyway. wikipedia would be your best bet I suppose.

and on a bright note, I've been dry for 2 weeks until today I was in pain and my mom said she saved me some weed she found a few months ago:D . man, I love everybody again.

a gradual combination in accordance to one's own individual mentality, which work together in combination of other mentalities to form larger mentalities not immedietly percievable to the mentalities that massively form the greater one.


the smallest mentality (i THINK) that WE are aware of is the electrodes of an atom.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

Apparently we all came from Africa, I've seen some interesting maps on where humans migrated to during the paleolithic era. It looks like we came from Southern Africa and moved gradually northward till we reached Israel. at which point 4 groups broke off; 1 to Europe, 1 to Iraq, 1 to india, and 1 to the Yello River region of China. The Chinese factions went to Korea (and eventually japan, which was still attached to Korea as of 11,000 years ago), and others went to the north and eventually moved across to alaska and the northern regions of North America. I'm not really sure how the South American natives got there though, that would be really interesting to find out. I've always wondered if the Aztecs were a faction split from the early Egyptians considering the similarities in their architectural knowledge (their buildings and temples look almost like egyptian architecture at it's earliest stages), similarities in religious heirarchy, and this is just speculative but their names seem to sound very egyptian to me.


PERSONALLY i believe humans have been around long before the splitting of the continents, and at which point were 100% in tune with the rest of the universe (as if we were not physical, in the sense we commonly associate with alive) yet physical never the less... we had no need for anything physical as we had "ascented" at birth sort of deal.

i am not certain why we would have de-evilved from that mindset, but like i said, it is a mindset, something could have interfered with wyping out a way of thinking (not anymore i hope, given internet).

there had to have been initially 5 races of humans, perhaps evolved from common animals from the area, given their 5 distinct physical traits.

[harmonicminor]

arent the Mayan pyramids a lot more complex than the egyptian ones???
what about the metal balls found in Asia that were perfectly round with a raised line that circled them. they were supposedly dated back 5 million years or so. there were hundreds found in the same area and they werent naturally occurring.

[Krogith]

there had to have been initially 5 races of humans, perhaps evolved from common animals from the area, given their 5 distinct physical traits.

Wow thats the most racest thing i have ever read... you truly belive we as a HUMAN race all came from differnt evolved spices? You are going to say that every animal in the world is going to become a human like creature in the future? You truely think that even tho everone is so simular and our DNA is so close together that we came from whole differnt animals that can now somehow magicly breed with eachother and have the same interworking (of there bodys)? THAT IS THE MOST RACEST SHIT I HAVE EVER HEARD (im white btw). Dude were deff the same race and all human are equle and need to work together. The fact that the human race is all starting to melt back makes sence how if we were segergated (by the oceans) that each area would take there most common DNA trate and do a super breeding. All the differnt races are , is that DNA trate focused on due to people location. they would be breeding with the same people over the course of generations so the strong DNA trate is picked up and thoses people look a certain way. once we all melted pot together wed become a race of all the trates, if we were then segerated again for generations then the Strong DNA trates would be noticable again:smokin:

[harmonicminor]

but then if we all came from the same genes then we would all be inbreds wouldnt we???
also to reproduce we would have needed 2 humans with compatible dna that both evelved on thier own separately and the same way????
sounds kinda impossible to me
the chicken and the egg

[harmonicminor]

it sounds more possible that thought from other dimensions created this reality with ALL life forms.
maybe we were created not evolved
evolution is still just an unproven theory

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

wow holy fucking hell dude! dont jump down my throat like that! how was that even racist? sheeeet! chill out!


in my beliefs we are a one demensional reality and there is no such thing as racism in my words because i believe we are all EXACTLY the same, jsut different manifestations of that same thing, so in my delusional mind, native americans are from bears and south africans are from monkies!


shoot dont jump down my throat like that man i didnt even say anything offensive, your pseudo intellectual attack on racism was, in my opinion, unfounded. but am i the only one? if so, then i will stfu and let you have the throne back.

[MoonStarer420]

also to reproduce we would have needed 2 humans with compatible dna that both evelved on thier own separately and the same way????

As far as I know, evolution usally occurs with groups of species. No 1 animal can evolve, the changes happen from generation to generation. So there will always be more then just 2 animals involved. Thats where variation comes in, each animal has slightly diffrent traits then one another and those with the best suited to their enviorment have a higher chance of survival. Those traits are then passed down to their next generations. This usally takes many generations over thousands of years to notice great change....at least thats how the theory goes

[Polymirize]

it sounds more possible that thought from other dimensions created this reality with ALL life forms.
maybe we were created not evolved
evolution is still just an unproven theory

You're right. Let's just explain everything with magic tricks.

What happens isn't important, only what you notice... right?

[harmonicminor]

magic tricks????
you call the other dimensions magic tricks???
ok we all die and just push daisies and thats it
we all came from 1 cell that magically reproduced itself
or there were 2 cells in the beginining that magically appeared and fucked and spawned us. I highly doubt it

[MoonStarer420]

There are animals and bacteria that clone themselves in order to reproduce so it is possible for it to have been something like that

[harmonicminor]

yeah but the whole spark of life thing just seems impossible
it IS magic for any life to exist in the first place

[mrdevious]

magic tricks????
you call the other dimensions magic tricks???
ok we all die and just push daisies and thats it
we all came from 1 cell that magically reproduced itself
or there were 2 cells in the beginining that magically appeared and fucked and spawned us. I highly doubt it

I think what he's saying is you can't just propose something instantly creating everything, when the theory has no more evidence than your own imagination.

[harmonicminor]

who says it was instant???
Imagination and thought created all of this :-)
none of anyones theories can ever be proved anyway
unless beings from the other dimensions come to this realty and enlighten us or maybe the almighty himself if he even exists
but our proof will come to us when we die

[Polymirize]

I'll give you another dimension as the source of an "event", and even give it a role with continual access, but can't we also accept the "reality" of history?

The existence of another dimension(s) does not negate the existence of ours.

[harmonicminor]

our written history only goes back so far. the Torah is riddled with stuff that could be interpreted in different ways. our Earth is full of artifacts that don't make sense at all. for instance we cant even recreate the pyramids on a 1/4 scale with all of our technology.
Im not saying go to church every sunday because they just take your money anyways. Back when the Torah was written they used the plants to get to the other dimensions. the Holy Grail was actually an Amanita Muscara mushroom not a damn cup.
now think of this......
If the first life form was a single cell animal then what the hell did it eat to survive??????? I am sorry but I find that crap hard to believe. The majority of the public will believe anything anybody on tv tells them. too many people are brainwashed every day in front of thier tvs.

[Polymirize]

you think evolution is hard to swallow and obvious brainwashing while holding to ideas of other dimensions and mushroom sacraments?

I guess its not like you'll ever be proven wrong. Way to rock the status quo...

[graph]

If the first life form was a single cell animal then what the hell did it eat to survive???????

Sorry I haven't really been in this thread, but I gotta pop in and say something about this.

First of all, since you said animals, we're talking protozoa, which I believe are still loosely in the animal kingdom. Now there are thousands of different single cells, some of them being parasites, which as we all know, feast on other cells. Other, more simple cells, such as single cell flagellates or amoeboid protozoa can eat using lysosomes to actually ingest themselves. (like what happens to a tadpole's flagellan tail when it becomes a frog)

Another rule of thought would be multiple single-celled organisms forming at once (why must there be only one?) Some single cells would produce faster, and would probably be the target of the pseudopods on amoebas, etc.



There's a lot of flaws with Darwin's original theory, but he is only one man and it's only been a short period of time. The bible has had how many years to correct its errors?

The problem is, too many people take what's written in the bible as undeniable proof. Darwin has a theory, but Christianity is a belief. The problem is, you can change theories depending on what seems to be the most fact. It's harder for people to change what they believe.

[harmonicminor]

hmmmm
how did these organisms form??? from where did they get the tissue that made up the cells??? where did they get thier dna?? or the thought process that was a key to life?? and they all formed at once in the beginning??
also I didnt say I believed the bible either because to me the bible was a was to keep the primitive people in line back 2000 years ago. life formed millions of years before the bible and not necessarily on our planet first either.
if gravity is formed by a planets wieght on the fabric of reality is it not possible for life on the other side of this fabric??