Bubbler System Question

[RoboGro]

Been getting alot of good info here, thanks Latewood and all. I have been growing in dirt for sometime now and had a hydro kit that I bought setting around and finally decided to give it a go. Soo...

Do I put the Rockwool at the bottom of the net pots let them get wet for a day then put the seeds in the Rockwool and cover them with the little round stone sort of things?

I was hoping to start this morning but noticed last night, when I put the stones in first that alot of them fell through the net pots and into the water. There was quite a bit of dust from them floating on the bottom as well. Should I pre-soak the stones to get the dust off?

TIA

[LOC NAR1958]

Hi man, You got no instructions ? maybe this will help, I run drip and am starting bubblers now. You need to wash the hydrotron expanded clay balls well to get all dust off of them. First you need to decide on a germination plan. You grow soil , do you just plant or do the paper towel thing or what ? More ??? than you wanted. If you go with the rockwool cubes there are propogation stuff for that. Just use the paper towel thing till they sprout. Presoak you cubes in PH balanced water over night. Poke a little hole in the top if it doesn't have one and put a sprout in. I'm shure you get the idea. Place a layer of hydrotron rocks in the bottom of net pots, a lot will fall through that's alright just do it in another container. The big ones will stay. Now put in your cube with sprout. Depends on how big your net pots are , how deep you want the cube to sit. Then fill in with rocks around sides, don't cover the top . You can add more later to help hold up the plant and keep algea off the rockwool. They all need to be the same. put them in unit and fill with PH nutrient water to just touch the bottom of the net pots. To keep the rockwool wet now. As soon as the roots start to go for the water lower the water to just below the net pots so the main root ball does not sit in water. Not good. Bubbles will keep it wet. Now change water every 10 to 14 days. Learn about nutes and add ons. And above all else get a PH meter, no really do it now. PH is king in hydroland. You can get a TDS meter later but get the PH meter. Only use RO or distilled water and then add back what you need. So are you now confused good ?? I was at first but if I can do it you can. You can put the seed right in th rockwool just make shure it stays wet. What kind of light you got ??

[RoboGro]

The instructions that came on the CD that came with the kit were very lacking. I use to germinate in a paper towel but the last few I did in a small cup and that seemed just as good if not better, at least for dirt.

I just finished up cleaning up the rocks, I even sorted them so that I can put a few of the bigger ones on the bottom. I bought PH test strips, they're for fish tanks but I suppose they'll do till I can get something better.

As for the water, I boiled tap water in a stainless still pot. I haven't added any nutes yet, but I have a bottle of Liquid Grow (7-9-5) which I hope will be good for the first stage.

I would love to have better lights, right now I have one CFL to come down from the top and two 2 Ft. Wallmart Gro Lights which I was planning on using for side light. The electricity in my room is a bit touchy so I think I better stick with Floro lights. I do know how much light can make a difference but I wouldn't want to burn anything down. My real goal is just to keep myself in smoke so hopefully what I have will be enough. I may get a couple more of the 2' lights once I start seeing some green though.

Thanks alot for your help, this sight is great but it sure helps to have a question answered.

[LOC NAR1958]

Get all the gro lights you can get the electric on those are very low. PH strips better than nothing but get the drop kind next time. It's a little vessel you get some water and add a few drops of the stuff and compare colors. As for the water unless some one can test the TDS I would buy distilled or RO water. It can hold you back and cause nutrient lockout. Your nutients should be good to start. You will have fun but you get what your lights put out., I learned the hard way.

[RoboGro]

I was looking at a post in another thread and seen a link for a ph tester on eBay that was only 14.95, I'll probably order one of those today. Hydro sure is starting to seem more complicated then I had anticipated though. What is RO water? I thought that meant "Regular Old Water" :)

[Kush Over]

RO means 'Reverse Osmosis.'

A few companies use this method to purify their water. Just look at the labels when purchasing -- look for reverse osmosis filtering, or any variation of such.

[LOC NAR1958]

Reverse osmosis, is filtered water, Almost as clean as distilled. You will need some cal-mag plius to go back in the water. You need calcium and magnesium. You can get by with a little Epson salts for magnesium. That's a good price for a PH tester. IT just makes it easy to check twice a day. Just keep up the home work and ask questions. I could kill any house plaant on earth (with love). If I can do hydro anyone can.

[RoboGro]

Well, I changed my mind about a hundred times on how I wanted to do my first hydro-grow and finally decided on taking clones from a mother plant that's really good. My first time cloning as well; I put the three on the left in rockwool and the three on the right right in the hydro stones like I think Zandor does. It hasn't been quite 24 hours yet but they seem to be doing alright except for the middle one in the rockwool, its a bit droopy.

I also bought a pool PH tester I believe it's better then the strips but not as good as a meter. The 14.99 price was just the opening bid. I will get one but just can't afford it right now.

Here's a couple of pics of the clones. Does it look like I did it correctly? I used some root toner that I got off a buddy of mine.

[LOC NAR1958]

You can mist them with water and put a clear dome over it if you want but you don't have too. Keep them misted and keep your water level up to the bottom of the net pots for now till you see roots. They look good. Any kind of PH test is better than none. Yours look alot like my drip I just have a manifoil of 3/4 down the middle with six 1/4 lines to the pots and a pump in the water. Keep us up on how they root.

[RoboGro]

They're all looking perky now. It seems the three in the rockwool are getting bigger then the ones in the hydroton stones though. The PH is begining to go up as well. I don't have any PH down yet but I do have some White Distilled Vinegar, how much should I put in to bring the PH down just a bit. The tester I have shows a shade of yellow for 6.8 which is the lowest the tester is made for. I had it so that I had a slightly lighter shade of yellow but now it looks like the PH is right at 6.8.

[latewood]

make it lower...you want to run around 5.8 when conditions are normal...

[jimmy5150guitars]

sunstoneherbals.com has some great ph meters i have bought several expensive models and the hanna checker one works as well if not btr, get some calibration fluid also . HEY! latewoood long time man

[RoboGro]

Thank you both, I will definetly check out sunstoneherbals. I'm going to have to get some PH down as well. I used vinegar last night and checked it this morning and it looks like it's in the low 6's now. This is so cool, I feel like a scientist checking the PH. I even got a turkey baster so I can get the water from the middle of the tank. :)

[RoboGro]

Where Can I get the calibration fluid? Is it the buffer solution stuff?

I'm going to order the Hanna Checker1 PH meter with my next 30 bucks.

[jimmy5150guitars]

sunstone also carrys the calibration soultion or if you will (buffer solution) its around 1.50 per pouch a cpl of pouches of each will finish your grow with some leftover, word to the wise it takes about 5 mins to calibrate a ph meter i have learned the hard way to calibrate weekly or at every resv change its not essential but considering the rewards, i use a tiny shot glass a few drops is all it takes to calibrate
as far as ph down i only use vinegar carefull with the down

[RoboGro]

What a week! First; I nearly, if not did, destroy my oldest plant growing in dirt by putting water with vineger in it to bring the PH down in the hydro grow. Now I check the PH in the hydro and it's in the 7's. Being a bit leary, I did however add water with vineger in it to the bubbler.

How long after adding vineger should it take for the PH to come down?

Here's a pic of them at day 7

[jimmy5150guitars]

dude i usually wait 15-30 mins and recheck ph level, dont get discouraged
it takes a while to get the hang of it , it may take a few times of adding
up or down for you to reach your desired ph level, after awhile youll be
able to do it the first time it takes practice,

[RoboGro]

The vineger is bringing the PH level down to acceptable levels, but it's a daily thing. I don't mind spending the time with them though.

They're in their 8th day now and I still don't see any roots coming out of the bottom of the net pots. Should I be? The top of the plants seem to be growing just fine however.

[RoboGro]

Well, one of the six is dieing. Every morning now the PH is up into the 7's and I still don't see any roots. I believe I'm going to change the water today. Should I add some of the Liquid Grow (7-9-5) maybe and half strength? They seem to be kind of stalled in just the distilled water. I want to find some of that CalMag+ as well, but haven't found it locally yet. Would that be in a gardening center or is that more of an item for hydro only?

[LOC NAR1958]

Cal-mag, Unless you have a good hydro store, it's hard to find. You will most likely have to order it. Just a little Epson salts will help untill you can get it. It helps with the magnesium. Worked for me till I got some. As long as the tops are not dead it ain't over yet and it's hard to get 100%. You will see roots soon.

[latewood]

no nutes, yet...you can add some calmag, superthrive or liquid karma...If you feel you have to add nutes use 1/4 strength.

[RoboGro]

Thanks guys, I'm glad I read this first. I have 3 jugs of distilled water mixed up with 1/2 strength nutes but I'll save those for the next water change. I wish I could find a store locally that has stuff like calmag, superthrive, and liquid karma but I suppose I'll have to order it online. I should start a hydro store around here.

I like gardening in the yard and I REALLY like doing this hydro thing but half the time I'm setting here thinking that it's never going to work for me.

[LOC NAR1958]

Once you get the hang of it it will seem a whole lot easier. Hang in there your doing good. I need a hydro store too. I hate waiting for stuff to come in.

[latewood]

order from sunsethydro or bghydro...best pricing and service, overall. Imho

Just cut your 1/2 strength nutes by doubling water.
if you are saving that mix...put it in a tub, in the dark with an airstone to keep algae from growing and to keep it oxygenated...
you could probably use 1/2 strength, with slight risk. good luck, let us know...what's up. lw

[RoboGro]

Thanks for the links Latewood; so far I've done all my ordering from www.landmsales.com it's good to know where the experts go :)

What would you guys recommend in the way of nutes for the flowering stage?

[latewood]

Its hard to say...read my new nutrient thread, maybe that will help you...

gh 3-part...just buy micro and bloom...buy gallons, alot cheaper
canna nutes. read up on them, i haven't used them, but they are a favorite wiht lots of growers.
botanicare pure blend pro/bloom for hydro (organic)
botanicare is a great co. you could try there line. they make cal mag+ and liquid Karma...

[Opie Yutts]

There is no real way to do hydro without spending the $30 and buy a PH meter. You will also need PH up or down, and 2 different callibration fluids, probably 4 and 7. I keep my PH at 5.2, and calibrate once a year or so. I have done a lot of research about the correct PH.

This sounds worse than it is once you do it a couple of times. It takes me about 10 minutes now from start to finish to mix up a batch and feed my plants.

I got all my stuff at a hydro store, but you can find it much cheaper on line.

I don't worry about mixing a bunch of things for different stages. I use fox farm grow big and a couple drops of superthrive for veg, and fox farm big bloom only for flower. I have great results and I just follow the directions on the bottle (2 teasp. per gal.)

Don't mess with organic crap. Just pump em full of chemicals - they love it. If you are worried about smoking chemicals, you can always feed with water only the last week or two.

[RoboGro]

Wow! I just cleaned out the tank this morning and none too soon I think. The water was dirty looking, probably from the hydroton stones that fell in it I guess and there was all this slimey white goo floating around. What is that goo anyway? Could it be from the vineger?

[latewood]

could be algae...need pix

[RoboGro]

I didn't think to take any pics. I do know that the PH seems to be a bit more stable now. I can't wait to see some roots coming out of the net pots though.

I did get some Epson Salt today but I'm not sure how much to use or how to mix it. How would Y'all do it?

Oh, and by the way; I loved your Nutrient Thread LW, I have it bookmarked and will be using that as my guide for new purchases. Thanks a bunch.

[latewood]

when I used epsom salts...I used about 2 tbs per 10 gallon rez...

[Opie Yutts]

I would do it by not using epsom salts or vinager.

All you need is to keep light out of your nutes, keep them airiated, and use PH up or down.

Soap and hot water to clean stuff, maybe just a tiny bit of bleach.

[RoboGro]

Well, here they are at 2 weeks. Maybe I had my hopes too high but for some reason I expected more from hydro.

2 of the plants in the hydroton stones only, don't look like they're going to make it. One of the larger plants is really starting to yellow and brown on the lower leaves but I read in another thread that that is normal.

I was also reading about the roots not liking light, so I filled the net pots the rest of the way up with hydrton stones to help keep light out of the tank. I changed the water again and went up a little bit with the nutes, but still well below what is recommended.

Oh yea, I'm beginning to see roots on the larger plants. I didn't put quite as much water in as I had before thinking that would make the roots reach for it.

As always, suggestions welcome.

[latewood]

a couple on notes/q's...are you rinsing all the dust out of your hydroton before you use it?

go on ebay and splurge on some ph down at least. 8 bucks.
when you but a pen...the good ones come with calibration fluid. I use Milwaukee...strongly recommended over hanna.

blue lab truncheon is the best under 200 dollars.

ph of lemon juice 2.5 ph of baking soda 9.5 - just a note.

[RoboGro]

I actually boiled water, let it cool a bit then put the hydroton stones in that and washed them fairly well. I realized after my last post that it's one of each that's not looking so good; one it Rockwool and one in Hydroton only.

I'm a freelance programmer and right now the company I'm coding for is way behind on paying. Once they get caught up though my first purchase is going to be a PH pen and PH adjusters. In the mean time, I'm using a spa tester, not as accurate as a pen but I hope close enough to get by for now.

I also want to get some CalMag+ and superthrive as well. This is a fun hobby but no where near as simple as growing in dirt.

Will the PH down keep it down longer then the vineger that I'm using? Would lemon juice be better for adjusting it down?

[Opie Yutts]

Maybe I had my hopes too high but for some reason I expected more from hydro.


Hydro is much better than soil as far as yield vs effort. If you don't experience this you are definately doing something wrong. It is not Hydro,s fault. Give it some time. You should see some amazing results if you are used to growing in soil.

And for me, it is much easier than growing in dirt. No guesswork, bigger, better, faster. However, you have to get the hang of it first. You can't just decide to go hydro, then the weed just magically falls in your pipe.

[RoboGro]

You can't just decide to go hydro, then the weed just magically falls in your pipe.

What??? But I thought... :)

I'm not blaming hydro, I'm sure it is me. I am learning alot with even more learning yet to come. I think my problem is I spend half the day just staring at them. I do believe it will get better my second time around and hopefully better yet on my third. I just need to get better tools and chemicals. I'm also trying to enjoy the journey more then just thinking about the destination but I can be impatient at times :cool:

I can't thank you guys enough either, I wish I could give ya'll a big juicy bud when it's done.

If it ever gets done :p

[Opie Yutts]

I don't know what to recommend because I've only used one. I can tell you what I use though for flowering, and it is Tiger Bloom by Fox Farm. It's what the hydro store people recommended when I first started. I'm an "if it aint broke don't fix it" kind of guy, and I've always had great results with this nute. No mixing in other stuff. No need to try something different.

[RoboGro]

Hi Guys, would this be a good TDS ppm Meter?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hanna-TDS-METER-PPM-Water-TESTER-On-SALE-NOW_W0QQitemZ4464058254QQcategoryZ20684QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

If I'm going to make this work I'm going to have to get better equipment I think. I'm down to 3 plants now. 2 are looking pretty good, although they are real light green in color. The third has been the runt from the get go although it's still hanging in there, not sure for how long.

[latewood]

Hi Guys, would this be a good TDS ppm Meter?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hanna-TDS-METER-PPM-Water-TESTER-On-SALE-NOW_W0QQitemZ4464058254QQcategoryZ20684QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

If I'm going to make this work I'm going to have to get better equipment I think. I'm down to 3 plants now. 2 are looking pretty good, although they are real light green in color. The third has been the runt from the get go although it's still hanging in there, not sure for how long.NO nO No...I bought one of these...read it again.

It's a great deal...BUT, It only reads to 999ppms...that will get you through veg...pretty much. unless you juice them...would be good for seedlings and clones on light nutes, or as a 2nd meter for same reason.

You need on that reads at least 2000ppms or more.
If you can get milwaukee tds or EC meter...you would be better off. hope this helps ya

lw

[RoboGro]

Sure did help, thanks. I'll just have to put the money on a good one and think of it as an investment.

I did order some CalMag+ and PH up and down today. I might order some Superthrive tomorrow.

Any thoughts on the two plants being light green in color?

[latewood]

I buy superthrive at wally's big_box_mart

[RoboGro]

Well, here they are at three weeks. Only three left and one of them ain't lookin so good. That's how the others dried up and died. The two that are bigger at least have roots that I can see comming out of the sides of the net pots. They also have some yellowing leaves but the green is rather pretty. I'd like to take at least the two all the way but I'm not getting my hopes too high.

I should go back to growing in soil, but I'm going to be stuborn about it and try again... and again... and again!

LW, I had no idea that Walmart had superthrive. Didn't even bother to look :)
I'll have to get there this weekend. Hopefully, something like that will help me save the two and a half that's left.

As always, any advice is mucho appreciated.

[LOC NAR1958]

If you can see roots they will come through. Mine all ways looks worse right before you can see roots. Your problem took me awhile to figure on rooting 10 to 12 just to get 6 good ones and maybe a backup or 2. Don't give up.You will get the hang of it.

[latewood]

I agree, If you have a couple with roots...you are through the hardest part...keep it up.

lw

[RoboGro]

Thanks for the encouragment. My confidence swings like a pendulam with this hydro stuff. I was finally able to order the CalMag+ and PH up & down; I also got some superthrive at Walmart. Yesterday was the first time that I noticed they had consumed water from the tank. Before, I was adding diluted vineger so often that the water level never did drop.

I've been reading Loc Nar's post about his first grow, really makes me want to get an HPS light for flowering. I wish I could get him to come up here and help me with the wiring :) I looked at the breaker box and it's pretty much right below my grow closet and has alot of room for expansion. But, electricity scares the hell out of me. One of my buddy's was telling me how to do it and how easy it is to run a wire from the box to an outlet but I'm leary of doing it myself. If I want to run AC this summer it's going to have to be done, and if I do that I may as well run one for a good light too.

Well, thanks again. I'm going to go do some more reading.

[LOC NAR1958]

Dude wish I could be there to help. I like doing electric, I have been shocked at least a 1000 times but nothing deadly hot. Kind of gives you an energy buzz. LOL. Maybe you can get your friend to help but then he will want some too. LOL

[latewood]

I wire my own. I would suggest you plug your light into a wall receptacle...If you don't know what you are doing with electricity, you could burn the house down!

lw

[RoboGro]

I would suggest you plug your light into a wall receptacle

lw

That's my problem. The whole upstairs is on one breaker. I'd like to get my room and office on their own breaker. Not just for growing, but AC would be nice this summer and as a computer programmer, I've lost several hours of work when the breaker has tripped in the past because my son was running a shop vac in his room. I'd say two things that draw alot of juice running at the same time upstairs will trip it every time. With all the empty spots for breakers in the box, I can't imagine why they would've put the whole upstairs on one breaker.

[RoboGro]

Oh Man! I just checked the roots, and they are sprouting from EVERY WHERE!

I'm down to just the two of them but they are really starting to get me excited about the future.

I wonder if it could have been the superthrive or just their time to shine?

[Relic2279]

I had alot of problems with the speed of rooting clones. I found that if the water temp is between 75-78, they root fastest. If it's less, they go into a stasis and if it's more, the stem rots.
The water when cloning does not have to be PH adjusted as there are no roots to be affected by it. Just using plain ol' tap water seems to be best.

I have a few slabs of rockwool that I will never use again. I've had nothing but horrible luck with them. I would suggest just using hydroten as a medium (red clay pellets or balls.)

[latewood]

I had alot of problems with the speed of rooting clones. I found that if the water temp is between 75-78, they root fastest. If it's less, they go into a stasis and if it's more, the stem rots.
The water when cloning does not have to be PH adjusted as there are no roots to be affected by it. Just using plain ol' tap water seems to be best.

I have a few slabs of rockwool that I will never use again. I've had nothing but horrible luck with them. I would suggest just using hydroten as a medium (red clay pellets or balls.)I do this also...clone directly to hydroton, and It is my favorite hydro method...I'm just experimenting with every method.

[Opie Yutts]

Me too! Rockwool sucks compared to clay pellets.

When my clones have a couple inches of roots, I lay the roots on a strip of moisture mat, put the bottom of the strip at the bottom of the net pot, and fill with clay pellets. Works great.

[latewood]

you talking about coco? good idea!

lw

[Opie Yutts]

No just hydroton clay pellets. The moisture mat has a fancy name: Capillary matting. Available at your local hydro store. You could probably use an old sock or something and get the same effect.

[latewood]

no...I meant they make a mat out of coco...I thought you might be referring to that...thanks for the answer. lw

[Opie Yutts]

I didn't know they made a mat out of coco. Sounds like that may be worth a try. I have read very good things about the coco as a medium. Never tried it though.

[latewood]

I owuld just stick with hydroton...can't be beat.

you can do all these trials and such...but take some advice from me...who has spent a fortune learning the hard way...get a set recipe and regimen that work's and yields for you...And, Stick with it...lw

[RoboGro]

I just don't know! My dirt plants are starting to catch up. I think I'm being uber careful but must be doing something wrong. Water temp is the thing I want to begin monitoring now after reading some of the other threads. I love the threads that say how they didn't even monitor PH but got a couple of oz's but I'll be lucky if I have a plant left even after spending all this time on them. Thank God for dirt! :)

The one on the right is developing brown spots. I haven't begun researching yet but will.

As always, any input mucho appreciated.

[moreover123]

Robo - you have some type of ph tester.. right?

Can I ask a question for you guys who clone right in hygroton? Assuming you start off with a small net pot - do you then repot? Or merely take the small pot and stick it in a larger one & add the media?

[RoboGro]

I've been using a spa PH tester. Maybe not as accurate as a meter but I believe it's close enough. As far as cloning, the two that I have that are still with me were cloned in rockwool. But, I can see myself losing them as well.

The guys on this forum are great! But I'm beginning to think that dirt is my future.

Congrats to Latewood! You are one of the Guru's!

[RoboGro]

And, Oh yea! Don't that CalMag+ smell great?

[LOC NAR1958]

You need to get some B-52, it smells 10 times worse. LOL

[Opie Yutts]

I've been using a spa PH tester. Maybe not as accurate as a meter but I believe it's close enough

I don't know what a spa tester is, but a PH meter is like 30 bucks. You just dip it in your nutes and it gives you a reading. And when it comes to PH "close enough" isn't. PH cannot be wrong or you will be screwed.

[Opie Yutts]

moreover:
I put the clones directly into a 6 inch net pot and fill with clay pellets. There it stays until harvest.

[latewood]

moreover:
I put the clones directly into a 6 inch net pot and fill with clay pellets. There it stays until harvest.
I have done this many times with success...FYI So easy...:smokin: