A little scrawny?

[Feek]

Is this little plant a bit small for 4 weeks into growing? The reason I ask is because it wouldn't surprise me, since the seeds were in my freezer for about 2 years.

Right now, I have it under a 400w MH (switch to HPS for flower) in a cabinet. You can see the temp sensor next to the plant, which is registering 100 degrees, with the cab being 93 degrees.

[thepope]

4 weeks? thats super long i think

[Feek]

Well, the bottom is because for the first week or so of life, it had CFLs until my MH came in.

So you don't think it's too small at 2 1/2 inches?

[justaseed]

it is extemely stunted, probably because of the heat. you need the temp in the mid to high seventies. these are 20m days from seed. and they were grown under flouros only. you are gonna have to get better ventillation if you wanna produce any worthwhile buds. if you give more details i could probably give better advice.

[justaseed]

also i don't see any perlite in the soil. mj NEEDS PERLITE added to the soil. give as many details as you can about the grow and i will try to tell you what's wrong.

[Feek]

Thank you, justaseed. I'll try to remember everything. I'm sure there's a lot wrong beyond the temperature since I wasn't terribly prepared because, as I said, I wasn't even expecting this seed to grow after more than 2 years in deep freeze. Since I've never grown indoors before, what this is is one or two "learning" grows before I make my real setup downstairs. I wish I could still grow outdoors, but there's entirely too many woodland animals in the area that love to eat this stuff.

I can add more ventilation, and I plan on picking up one or two more exhaust fans. In retrospect, it probably would have been better to spend more on the exhaust for higher CFM. It's on a thermostat right now, set for the low 70's, but the fan itself just plain isn't strong enough to handle the heat from the light. I don't need to worry about incoming temp, because I have an A/C in the room and can set it to whatever I need.

The soil is just some regular potting soil I picket up at HD. I'll repot and add some Perilite like you said. I assume this is for drainage and to allow root growth? Can you tell this is my first time growing pot indoors? :)

The light is about 12 inches from the top of the plant, but as you can see, there's a fan blowing in the space in between for stem strength and *some* cooling. I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy one of those hoods that you can attach the ventilation. Maybe something like:
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=SSSR190K#

The light schedule is on 18/6.

The food is a very light mixture of Miracle Gro 12-4-8. Stop cringing, it's only until my Fox Farm's food comes in. All of the water I use is store-bought distilled water.

I feel like I'm missing something to tell you, but I can't think of it right now. I'll brace myself for your comments. ;)

[justaseed]

you might consider starting over when you have the set-up fixed. that plant is so stunted and it looks kinda yellow as well. in my experience if a plant is stressed alot early in life, then it never does well in flower. it will be much more likely to hermie. don't use the mg. just wait till you get the ff stuff. i used ff big bloom, tiger bloom, grow big along with liquid karma and thrive alive green. be very careful with the ff ferts. they are very acidic and you will need to adjust the ph to 6.2-6.4 with ph up before feeding the plants otherwise they will just end up locking up on you. also when mixing the soil try to use something like promix or sunshine mix and mix as follows:

2 gallons soil
1 to 1 1/2 gallons perlite (airation and drainage)
3-5 tbsp dolimite lime(keeps ph stable)

you should also try to build a cool tube for the mh to use for veg and if possible get a hps as it is much better for flowering.

a fan in the closet is circulation not ventillation. circulation is important as well but you must get rid of the hot air, the fan just blows it around. you will have to get a prety powerfull exhaust fan(daytons are great) and install it at the top of the closet so it blows the air out through a hole in the wall or ceiling. you will need a carbon scrubber attached to the exhaust as well to control odor. for intake you must cut holes at the bottom of the closet and if possible have an intake fan. remember all this MUST BE LIGHTPROOF. meaning that when the lights are off the plant is in COMPLETE DARKNESS with NO INTERUPTIONS. if there are lightleaks or interuptions in the dark period the plant will hermie, take a super long time to flower and or possibly even revert back to veg.

here is a link to a place that has daytons pretty reasonably priced:
http://www.living-learning.com/fans/fans.htm

good luck and if you have anymore ?'s just ask.

[the image reaper]

sorry, gotta disagree with the TOTAL darkness comment ... constant changing of light cycles, etc, will cause stress, resulting in hermies sometimes, but walk outside at night ... is it totally dark ? .. is there no moonlight ?? ... I only post this, so someone doesnt think a problem was caused by a small bit of stray light ... their hermies would most likely be caused by some other reason ... I have never had a hermie in over 30 years of growing, and only two males in all that time, so I figure Im either doing something right, or I am the luckiest bastard in the universe ... (could be) ... :D :smokin:

[justaseed]

you cannot compare indoor growing with outdoor the light conditions are totally different as well as everything else. i stand by my statement" the dark cycle must be complete darkness with no interruptions" i am not the only one who thinks this.

you gotta be lucky if you've been growing for 30 years and only have had 2 males. you should play the lottery with luck like that. what's your female to male ration, probably something like (10,000 / 2 ) that is amazing unless you are using fem seeds of course.

[Feek]

you might consider starting over when you have the set-up fixed. that plant is so stunted and it looks kinda yellow as well. in my experience if a plant is stressed alot early in life, then it never does well in flower. it will be much more likely to hermie.
I thought it looked kind of yellow, too. I'll probably keep with this plant, even if there's not much or any to harvest. I'm pretty good with all kinds of plants, and I find the best way to grow a plant is to listen to what it has to say. At the very least, I'll find out what not to do. For personal reasons, I've decided to quit smoking for a few months, so I'm not jonesin' for the stuff anyway. I'm a patient guy, and I enjoy growing plants just for the sake of it.


don't use the mg. just wait till you get the ff stuff. i used ff big bloom, tiger bloom, grow big along with liquid karma and thrive alive green.
I have your ff mixtures saved to my computer, so I'll follow those either when they come in or on the next grow.


be very careful with the ff ferts. they are very acidic and you will need to adjust the ph to 6.2-6.4 with ph up before feeding the plants otherwise they will just end up locking up on you.
Good deal. I just found a place right near me with 2 acres of plant, flower and fish pond supplies, so I picked up some of what I need today, and I'll get the rest over the next few days.


also when mixing the soil try to use something like promix or sunshine mix and mix as follows:

2 gallons soil
1 to 1 1/2 gallons perlite (airation and drainage)
3-5 tbsp dolimite lime(keeps ph stable)
Will do.


you should also try to build a cool tube for the mh to use for veg and if possible get a hps as it is much better for flowering.
I already have the MH and HPS with a remote switchable ballast, so no problem there. I think I'll just buy one of those venting reflectors because I don't feel like going through the hassle of building one.


a fan in the closet is circulation not ventillation. circulation is important as well but you must get rid of the hot air, the fan just blows it around. you will have to get a prety powerfull exhaust fan(daytons are great) and install it at the top of the closet so it blows the air out through a hole in the wall or ceiling. you will need a carbon scrubber attached to the exhaust as well to control odor.
The fan is down there for circulation, but I also have a small (too small) exhaust, too. I'm definitely going to buy one of those 465 CFM Dayton's from the link you gave. That one's overkill for what I need right now, but I'm going to need a bigger one once my setup is done downstairs anyway. Lucky for me, my situation doesn't require any odor control, no matter how stinky the plant gets.


good luck and if you have anymore ?'s just ask.
Thank you very much for the advice. I've been following your grows since I decided to grow indoors, and if you can get that kind of yeild on just CFLs, I know if I base my setup on your advice with MH/HPS, I can definitely get what I want.

[Feek]

Another question, I live on old Indian farm land that's so fertile, literally EVERYTHING I've ever planted out there grows stupendously. Think it'd be a good idea to dig up some soil and plant in that?

[justaseed]

if you want the exact feeding schedule i use here it is:
VEG
1st 2-3 weeks h2o only (ph'd to 6.4)
feeding 1 5ml grow big(gb) 5ml liquid karma(lk) per1 gal h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 2 5 ml gb 5ml lk 4ml thrive alive green(ta) per 1 gal h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 3 h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 4 10 ml gb 5ml lk 8ml ta per 1 gal h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 5 15ml gb 10ml lk per 1 gal h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 6 h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 7 15ml gb 8ml ta per 1 gal h2o(ph 6.4)
feeding 8 same as feeding 5
feeding 9 h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 10 same as feeding 7
feeding 11 same as feeding 5
carry on this way as long as you want to veg.
BLOOM(from the day you switch to 12/12 lighting)
feeding 1 10ml gb 5ml tiger bloom(tb) 10 ml lk 30ml big bloom(bb)
per gal h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 2 5ml gb 5ml tb 8ml ta 30ml bb per gal h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 3 h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 4 10 ml tb 10ml lk 60ml bb per gal h2o (ph 6.4)
feeding 5 10ml tb 8ml ta 60ml bb per gal h2o (ph 6.4)
at this point watch closely for burnt leaf tips. if you see them back off on the tiger bloom a little. if you don't see any you can increase it(tb) to 15ml/gal and alternate the lk and ta every feeding always using 60ml bb/gal. make sure you give only h20 every third feeding and if you see burnt tips. 2 weeks prior to harvest flush with h20 using 2x the capacity of the pot the plant is in. example: plant in 5gal pot is flushed with 10gal h2o. you can also use clearex in the h2o when flushing. for the final 2 weeks give h2o only.

about the dayton being overkill, the 465 might be but a smaller 1 would do you well. you are not gonna have any luck growing at 93 degrees. the ideal temp with lights on is 72-75 imo. sure a plant will do ok with temps in the low 80's but you wouldn't believe the difference in growth rate and trichome production if the temps are kept to the low 70's. with a 400hps/mh your gonna want alot of ventillation to achieve proper temps.

lastly don't use dirt you dig up outside! you don't know what your bringing in to your growspace! could be pests or even chemical contaminnants. it would be much better/safer to use a product like promix or sunshine mix.

good luck and feel free to ask any more questions you have