The use of psychoactive drugs for spiritual purposes

[Dextromethorphan]

Questions? Comments? Insights? Personal goals and experience?

Drugs to be considered:

LSD
Dextromethorphan
Mescaline
Psilocybin
Salvia
Marijuana

[skarz]

Hey Dex... I do use some entheogens for spiritual purposes, mostly salvia. I like to use some plain leaf while meditating, also blue lotus, calea, and kava work well for this. I'm still waiting to try san pedro and peruvian torch cacti, but i'm sure thats a very rewarding experience. I don't know if LSD would be very spiritual, natural substances are the preferred way. I think the reason people have bad trips is because they're looking for highs... many things like mescaline and salvia are very spritiual and more then just getting high, you have to be treating the plants with respect.

[CocaCola]

LSD can be used spiritually, you just have to know how to use it... same can be said for almost any substance other then opiates and pharms.

[RedRainDrop]

^ thats not true

You can only connect with nature, and the spiritual world with mushrooms, salvia, or chronic, in my opinion because they grow naturally (well did at one point)

never tried lsd tho.. but it IS synthetic.

[harmonicminor]

sure you can....
There have been documented reports during the lsd testing days where the patients have shown accountable telepathy during usage. :thumbsup:
another good one Ketamine was first developed as a safe anasthetic and became illegal because of too many people reported floating above thier bed and seeing thier bodies on the emergency table.
but to me Salvia resides as number one

[Nexus07083]

My opinions:
LSD - spiritual growth capabilities
Dextromethorphan - possible spiritual growth capabilities
Mescaline - spiritual growth capabilities (haven't tried, but did do 2c-e which is similar I hear)
Psilocybin - haven't tried
Salvia - doubt any spiritual growth capabilities
Marijuana - doubt any spiritual growth capabilities

...You forgot about one of the biggest! E!

[Dextromethorphan]

If you want to be picky, you could say that all chemicals are natural and that the act of combining them and fusing them does not take away from that. I think it is silly to limit yourself to "natural" drugs. Would you say that synthetic mescaline won't provide the same effects that straight peyote does? They differ slightly, yes, but the chemical IS the same.

A connection with nature is only one of the spiritual possibilities we are discussing. Self awareness and searching is another.

[Nullific]

^Exactly. Shulgin has one of the best arguments as to why this natural vs. synthetic arguing boils down to bullshit.


Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural?

[Trichocereus Panza]

Dex, a connection with nature IS a connection with yourself, as you will find out if you try peyote for example. You'll see that you are everything and everything is you, I am you and you are me, there is no meaningful difference and there is no problem anymore with being with other people, b/c we're all the same. These are the kinds of things I have felt reinforced by san pedro experiences. That's the plant I would recommend the most out of all you mentioned, it literally changed my life in tangible ways, and the positive effects have lasted for weeks on end for me.

However, no psychoactive in itself does all the work for you. You should read up not only on drugs, but on meditation, buddhism, Zen, Taoism, Sufism, etc--all types of mysticism, try taking a good class sometime or reading a book that combines spirituality AND drugs insightfully and intelligently--like The Marriage of the Sun and the Moon by Andrew Weil. The simplest and most important meditation practice, which should be 'easy' but can take a lifetime, is learning not to judge yourself. Psychoactives help immeasurably with this, as well as the ability to let go of thoughts.

Nexus, OF COURSE marijuana has the potential for aiding in spiritual growth. Just try smoking it alone, if you've never done so, and hopefully see what I mean. I don't know of any other readily available plant that has helped me more in developing my healthiest attitudes towards life and my spiritual outlook. It's a really versatile plant (like any of the psychedelics) so you can use it for any purposes you choose--if you think it's going to be spiritual, it probably will; if you think it's gonna make you silly and laugh with your friends, it probably will (sometimes both at once). Rastafarians have long used it for meditation practice. I think pot just helps you to be yourself, pure and simple--and what could be more spiritual?

You should also ask yourself what you think you MEAN by the word "spiritual," since I think it's a term people use vaguely, and it doesn't always have much substance. What do you want to get out of life, in a really big sense? What do you need in order for it all to seem worthwhile to you? How do you want to live your life? Psychedelics have the potential to put you back on your feet and restore love for all beings to your heart (P.S. to those who thought otherwise... LSD is definitely no exception).

So yeah... try Peruvian torch cactus, it's the easiest to get w/o going through dealers since it's a LEGAL entheogen (usually sold as "incense" in this country). You WON'T be disappointed.

[andruejaysin]

^Exactly. Shulgin has one of the best arguments as to why this natural vs. synthetic arguing boils down to bullshit.Great quote. Someone had the idea of using something like 5meo-dmt to yield (in theory) 4ho,5meo-dmt, if the general pattern holds that should resemble psilosin at perhaps 5x potency. Maybe someone growing shrooms would want to test that.

[scb037]

yo whats this "peruvian torch cactus" you speak of and how can i get some of it?
thanks budday

[CocaCola]

a connection with nature IS a connection with yourself.

Exactly. It's all brain patterns and inner workings... it's not the "drug" that gives you spiritual growth and those who think they are growing spiritually because of their Mushroom use, isn't growing at all...

LSD is the fucking same deal as Psilocybin and Mescaline... stop kidding yourselves. Synthetic vs. Nature is a stupid argument and is explained above... and the most importent thing is... if you can't apply your new awareness in a sober state of mind then what are you really doing? Just tripping around... and not learning anything.


^ thats not true

You can only connect with nature, and the spiritual world with mushrooms, salvia, or chronic, in my opinion because they grow naturally (well did at one point)

That's NOT true? You can ONLY do it one way? If their is one importent thing I've learned is that there is no ONE way for anything. If you think you can grow spiritually from fasting and sleep depravation or synthetic drugs, you CAN.

[Trichocereus Panza]

Great quote. Someone had the idea of using something like 5meo-dmt to yield (in theory) 4ho,5meo-dmt, if the general pattern holds that should resemble psilosin at perhaps 5x potency. Maybe someone growing shrooms would want to test that.
hmmm...
I am half-thinking of growing mushrooms next year. Taken out of context though, I can't picture how you would "introduce" any of these chemicals (Mickey Mouse included), or how you would test the "yield" (just by the effects?) Interesting stuff.

And for the person who asked where to get peruvian torch powder, try this place: http://www.mindzeyecreationz.com/ ... you will also need to do some research about it though, a bit about dose and preparation. There are threads on here that can help, and then there's erowid.org

[CocaCola]

I can't wait till I can order that powder.

[Dextromethorphan]

"Dex, a connection with nature IS a connection with yourself, as you will find out if you try peyote for example."

Been there, know what you mean. Will write more about it when time allows (probably tomorrow)