Ever prayed to God?

[cannabis campbell]

Well, have you?

[Nullific]

When I was a child I did, until I realized that God either doesn't exist or doesn't care.

[Oneironaut]

I did when I was little too, but then I realized God doesn't exist, and that prayer would be pointless even if he did.

“PRAY, v.
To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.” —Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[F L E S H]

Honestly, the only times I prayed was when my mother or my grandmother made me... Even when I went to church as a kid, while everyone else would be praying, I'd just pretend and think about something else...

[mrdevious]

Honestly, the only times I prayed was when my mother or my grandmother made me... Even when I went to church as a kid, while everyone else would be praying, I'd just pretend and think about something else...

You were thinking of all the crafty ways you could escape the church MacGuyver style weren't you? :p

[F L E S H]

Well, I could have taken the hymn book, fold it up, merge it with the prayer book, sprinkle some holy water, mix it with the host to make some glue, and I probably could have done something with the candle wax.....



:dance:

[puffpuffand away]

i pray 2 God every single nite...he is the only 1 that listin,s...this is my beliefe ,this the way i was raised...now i have even more 2 pray 4>>>all of u

[Oneironaut]

i pray 2 God every single nite...he is the only 1 that listin,s...this is my beliefe ,this the way i was raised...now i have even more 2 pray 4>>>all of u
Well, you know, you don't have to do everything the way you were raised. Just because your parents told you prayer works doesn't mean it does. The idea is laughably absurd. Even if there is a God, do you think you can communicate new information to him or something? Do you think you can somehow change his perfect all-knowing mind by telling him your thoughts, which he's already familiar with because he's monitoring all your thoughts? By the way, how creepy must it be to actually believe there's somebody who knows what all your thoughts are all the time?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

yes, used to more, but still do.

i stopped praying as much when i noticed it didnt make a difference how much i prayed, god didnt do anything. for the longest time i just simply passed it off as god didnt care, then i decided god didnt exist, because it would simply be unholy not to care about the situation down here, then after more research i went back to god not caring, which later turned to realizing god CANT do anything right now, and has to let things play out, so to speak, so as to either teach us a lesson, or someone/thing else.

[beachguy in thongs]

Not everyone has to rebel.

I was raised with no one to rebel against. My parents split apart before I finished High School (though, this has nothing to do with the previous statement).

If it eases you, pray, God Damn it.

edit: Well, I rebelled against my teachers. But, I felt like I had them, already, nine or seven years before, as my Brother and Sister had them.

[cannabis campbell]

bump

[graymatter]

i pray 2 God every single nite...he is the only 1 that listin,s...this is my beliefe ,this the way i was raised...now i have even more 2 pray 4>>>all of u

Thanks for the gesture, puff, but god doesn't like me very much. The last time someone prayed on my behalf they were forced to stand in the 30 items or less lane at Wal Mart for eternity....

[Nylo]

Well, you know, you don't have to do everything the way you were raised. Just because your parents told you prayer works doesn't mean it does. The idea is laughably absurd.

come on, now. Simple poll question. It's not Cannabis-like for us to fight over things any of us can't prove :D Life is good ;)

@Poll question.

Yes, I have. And I do.

[da5mikeY]

hah I've been in a Catholic enviroment my entire life (school, football, home, family) and it seems weird for someone to not pray to God...I dunno, that's just me

[GHoSToKeR]

Yeah when I was a kid, but never with any actual meaning or emotion. Just prayed because that's what my family did and what I was supposed to do..

[pastor420]

Daily, almost hourly. I rely on it.

[braddog10]

Thanks for the gesture, puff, but god doesn't like me very much. The last time someone prayed on my behalf they were forced to stand in the 30 items or less lane at Wal Mart for eternity....


Well, Thanksss Gray! no 0ne told me! I didn't hear about this. Here I 've been eating out for the last Three Weeks!! The Grocery lines..I can't imagine.......Wait...I.I.I"ll.....ggrrooww a ggaarrddeenn. yeah. A Garden....Hey, The Garden Knowm. Oh this is'nt so bad. The Knowm will know what to do. I'll bring my van, I can sleep in it ~ down by the river. It will be swell.


We Love You
.
.
.

[beachguy in thongs]

Thanks for the gesture, puff, but god doesn't like me very much. The last time someone prayed on my behalf they were forced to stand in the 30 items or less lane at Wal Mart for eternity....

I stand outside, smoking a cigarette, to avoid the lines. I guess, I can pray for you.

[beachguy in thongs]

hah I've been in a Catholic enviroment my entire life (school, football, home, family) and it seems weird for someone to not pray to God...I dunno, that's just me

It's weird. I know you're type, all so well. In my city, there was two high schools; the city's and Bishop Scully. After 9th grade, Bishop Scully closed, and by the time I graduated, more than half of my "inner-circle" of friends, were raised through the Catholic system.

From the time I was little 'til I was confirmed, I was enrolled in an after-school Catholic Confirmation course at St. Mary's Church/School. I went to public schools my whole life. One of my best friends' confirmation name was Reggie, and, 15 or 16 years later, I meet a man named Reggie who gets me "the best outdoor grown stuff", according to a site I found off of Cannabis.com.

My confirmation name is Anton. After Anton Stasny, formerly of the Quebec Nordiques.

[WalkaWalka]

I pray but not to God as much to any divine that will listen

[KoTToN MouTH]

i pray 2 God every single nite...he is the only 1 that listin,s...this is my beliefe ,this the way i was raised...now i have even more 2 pray 4>>>all of u


Right on BRO... that is firm. i always trip out how jehovas witness are VERY religous even when it comes to talking about god they are sooo convinced.. they are solid in their beliefs and u can only respect that.

[Hempstone]

I pray to God every day. Prayer is an invitation by God to come into His presence. That is the real purpose of prayer. There really is no greater joy than to be in the Divine presence of the Living God.

Try prayer for 30 days. Suspend your disbelief. If not fully satisfied, simply return your prayer for a full refund.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Prayer is begging - to something, or somebody, that is just a figment of your imagination.

[Oneironaut]

come on, now. Simple poll question. It's not Cannabis-like for us to fight over things any of us can't prove :D Life is good ;)

@Poll question.

Yes, I have. And I do.
I'm not fighting. I'm just presenting my point of view, backed by logical arguments, that prayer could not possibly have the slightest impact on the universe even if a god/gods existed. Think about it for a second. If there is such thing as a being which knows all your thoughts, all your desires, and everything there is to know about the past, present and future, what does prayer accomplish? What is the point of communicating anything to a perfect intelligence which already knows everything? You can't give a god any new information, or change a god's mind about anything, or get a god to change its already-formulated plans as to what the future will contain. Anyone who gives the subject five minutes of rational thought will come to the conclusion that prayer is simply a waste of time, whether the universe is godless or not.

[braddog10]

I'm not fighting. I'm just presenting my point of view, backed by logical arguments, that prayer could not possibly have the slightest impact on the universe even if a god/gods existed. Think about it for a second. If there is such thing as a being which knows all your thoughts, all your desires, and everything there is to know about the past, present and future, what does prayer accomplish? What is the point of communicating anything to a perfect intelligence which already knows everything? You can't give a god any new information, or change a god's mind about anything, or get a god to change its already-formulated plans as to what the future will contain. Anyone who gives the subject five minutes of rational thought will come to the conclusion that prayer is simply a waste of time, whether the universe is godless or not.

Forget rationality. There is a tremendous amount of which you are uninformed, ill informed, Ignorant actually. You also do not understand the sweeping structure that the dominion mandate established. To argue your points here as I have seen, Your embarrassing your self........

I am not trying to be rude,..But, it's just not a smooth issue. There is very little difference between you and some evangelist out there with his bull horn and his propaganda plastered all over everything. Your just preaching your own religious ideology, in no better fashion than some judgemental religious hypocrite. The two of you are two peas in the same pod, the Christian religious hypocrite at one end and you the aetheist religious hypocrite. at the other. Preaching your own religious ideology. You know blessed little about scripture, to claim that it says one thing or the other. I would suggest you begin by studying the Dominion Mandate, and don't give me the crap from your spin doctors, on the subject. Sorry, I have gotten a bit weary of your BS. The religious self righteousness you have plastered all over your page. It's mocking, rude, ... You may understand...but you mirror the religious hypocrites, that plaster their critical judgemental views. Do you despise religious hypocrites? Check your self out, Many many things come back as self hate>>> Deal with it...the comparison is poor ........ I don't know any religious christian, that displays their mean correctness in such an arrogant way as you and others. It's pathetic dude. Wash your car... Your bumper stickers also just minimize you further.
Start respecting your self. Your smarter than this.

Breuk, both of you Religious Hypocrites, mocking judgemental, the worst don't come close to you two.

[Binzhoubum]

Bear with me for a moment...I challenge you to actually read this post. :thumbsup:


Very few of us listen directly to what is being said, we always translate or interpret it according to a particular point of view, whether Hindu, Muslim, or communist. We have formulations, opinions, judgments, beliefs through which we listen, so we are actually never listening at all; we are only listening in terms of our own particular prejudices, conclusions, or experiences. We are always interpreting what we hear, and obviously that does not bring about understanding. What brings about understanding, surely, is to listen without any anchorage, without any definite conclusion, so that you and I can think out the problem together, whatever the problem may be.

If you know the art of listening, you will not only find out what is true in what is being said, but you will also see the false as false and the truth in the false; but if you listen ARGUMENTATIVELY, then it is fairly clear that there can be no understanding, because argument is merely your opinion against another opinion, or your judgment against another, and that actually prevents the understanding or discovery of the truth in what is being said.

I think this makes alot of sense. There are always three sides to the story, if not more, and the truth is always found somewhere in between all sides. I tend to agree with the physicalists on this one because I have a hard time accepting anything with does not seem scientific in nature or seem to even have a logical way of proving its disputed existence; however, I will also admit that Braddoghas an extremely valid point.


I am not trying to be rude,..But, it's just not a smooth issue. There is very little difference between you and some evangelist out there with his bull horn and his propaganda plastered all over everything. Your just preaching your own religious ideology, in no better fashion than some judgemental religious hypocrite. The two of you are two peas in the same pod, the Christian religious hypocrite at one end and you the aetheist religious hypocrite.

Now don't get me wrong folks...I like, actually, I LOVE to argue just as much as the next guy...but when it comes to something like prayer...I mean, if it makes people feel better, why not?

I don't pray very much nowadays but I used to everynight. :smokin:

[Oneironaut]

Forget rationality.
No! Rationality is the only way to make sense of the world. If we're just going to throw it out the window, we can't come to know anything. We have to apply logic to our observations about the universe if we're going to get anywhere in our understanding of how things work.

There is a tremendous amount of which you are uninformed, ill informed, Ignorant actually.
Right...what's your point? Everybody is ignorant about the vast majority of information stored in the universe. Just because I don't know everything there is to know doesn't mean I can't know anything.

You also do not understand the sweeping structure that the dominion mandate established. To argue your points here as I have seen, Your embarrassing your self........
What are you talking about? Dominion mandate?

I am not trying to be rude,..But, it's just not a smooth issue. There is very little difference between you and some evangelist out there with his bull horn and his propaganda plastered all over everything.
Not really. I try to back my arguments up with logic and reason. I am always willing to change my mind about something. Show me where I'm wrong and I'll happily agree with you.

Your just preaching your own religious ideology, in no better fashion than some judgemental religious hypocrite. The two of you are two peas in the same pod, the Christian religious hypocrite at one end and you the aetheist religious hypocrite. at the other. Preaching your own religious ideology.
Atheism is not a religion. It is nothing more than the lack of a belief in gods. A religion is a structured belief system about the supernatural. If atheism is a religion, then clear is a color.

You know blessed little about scripture, to claim that it says one thing or the other.
Who are you to say what I know and don't know? Obviously I haven't had the time to read the holy scriptures of every religion on the planet, but I do spend a lot of time reading the Bible, the Qur'an, etc. In fact, that's what I did for much of my afternoon yesterday. I am trying to find out to the best of my abilities what these scriptures are teaching. I just don't see any good reason to believe that any of these books are true regarding claims of the supernatural.

I would suggest you begin by studying the Dominion Mandate, and don't give me the crap from your spin doctors, on the subject.
What is this Dominion Mandate? Is it a holy scripture that has some evidence to back it up? If so, please show me the evidence. If it is convincing enough, I'll be delighted to believe whatever it says.

Sorry, I have gotten a bit weary of your BS.
If what I am saying is bullshit (I thought you were trying not to be rude), then please, show me the flaws in my logic and I will be more than happy to correct them. I am always trying to correct the flaws in my knowledge, so as to become a wiser person.

The religious self righteousness you have plastered all over your page.
My page? Huh? I'm just trying to uphold my opinions, because I believe my opinions to be correct. That's what makes them my opinions. If my opinions are wrong, tell me why they are wrong. Don't just say "you're wrong because you think you're so right". Of course I think I'm right. But if I'm wrong about something, I want to know what that something is and what the truth is. I'm always glad to have somebody prove me wrong so I can become smarter.

It's mocking, rude, ... You may understand...but you mirror the religious hypocrites, that plaster their critical judgemental views. Do you despise religious hypocrites? Check your self out, Many many things come back as self hate>>> Deal with it...the comparison is poor ........ I don't know any religious christian, that displays their mean correctness in such an arrogant way as you and others. It's pathetic dude.
If you don't have anything substantive to say about my opinions, why are you even talking? Don't just attack me for being "arrogant" and "pathetic". If you don't like my point of view, show me why my point of view is incorrect already!

If you don't like reading people's arguments for why their opinions are correct, then don't read what they have to write. But if you actually have something to say about those opinions, go right ahead. Fruitful debate is how we expand human knowledge. Just shutting up and keeping all our opinions to ourselves isn't going to get us anywhere, and neither is all this childish name-calling of yours.

You haven't even addressed my line of reasoning for why I think prayer can't possibly do anything. If you think I'm wrong about that, just tell me why. Tell me how prayer could possibly do anything if there's a God who already knows everything there is to know, and I'll be glad to retract my earlier statements. You seem to think that I'm fixated in some sort of dogmatic ideology. I'm not. I just found a really good logical argument against prayer, and no counter-argument has yet convinced me that it doesn't hold.

Wash your car... Your bumper stickers also just minimize you further.
I don't have a car.

Start respecting your self.
Why do you think I'm not respecting myself?

Your smarter than this.
I'm smarter than what? Myself?

Breuk, both of you Religious Hypocrites, mocking judgemental, the worst don't come close to you two.
I don't see what's wrong with mocking silly ideas that have no logic or evidence to back them up. Mockery, combined with a little logic, can be a powerful tool for helping others to critically think about things we take for granted in this society.

When you "forget rationality", as you urged me to do at the beginning of your post, you have nothing to fall back on except blind faith, beliefs held because of tradition, authority, wild speculation, or wishful thinking. I don't want to think like that. I want to actually look at the world and understand how it works as best as I can. In my quest for knowledge about the universe, I have not found one good logical argument, or one good observation, which would lead me to believe that prayer could possibly do anything. And until someone does, I won't believe it. I can't believe it. For the same reason that I can't just close my eyes and say "I believe in unicorns" and really mean it. I need to be shown why something is true, especially if it conflicts with my own common sense and what I observe. All you're offering is an ad hominem attack on me because apparently you don't like the idea that I think my own opinions are correct, or maybe you don't like the idea that I'm basing my opinions on rationality. What do you want me to do, say that my opinions are wrong? Reject logical thinking altogether?

[Oneironaut]

Now don't get me wrong folks...I like, actually, I LOVE to argue just as much as the next guy...but when it comes to something like prayer...I mean, if it makes people feel better, why not?
Because it encourages people to not actually do something about their problems. If you think God will take care of things for you, why bother doing anything yourself? To take an extreme example, Christian Scientists do not believe in medicine; they believe, however, that prayer can heal people. That can be a very damaging belief. Besides that, prayer and other beliefs in supernatural/paranormal claims encourage sloppy thinking and a blatant disregard for rationalism and the scientific method. Am I going to stop anybody from praying? Of course not. But I don't see what's wrong with informing someone when they're doing something very silly and illogical, like praying to a God who supposedly knows all your thoughts anyways.

[Torog]

Well, have you?

Howdy cannabis,

Every single day,at the beginning of the day and when I go to bed at night. I pray throughout the day,for those in need and for those who need protection,I pray for many of our members here and I pray when I hear an Amber Alert on the tv,I even pray for Peace..but I'm prudent enough to know-that I must prepare for war,as well.

After reading the replies to yer question,in this thread,it's apparent that there's alot of praying to be done for the folks here..it's so sad to see so many who've lost touch with their souls and with God. Yet,increasing numbers of folks,are trying to git in touch with their spirituality..how can one be spiritual -- but deny their Creator and Saviour ?

How can one toke marijuana and not realize,that only a loving God,is capable of creating a plant that can help so many different folks with so many different needs ?

Thanx to the advent of modern liberalism,folks have become cynical,jaded and pessimistic..those in such a state,are gonna be out of touch with their souls and God,I reckon.

Have a good one ! :stoned: :)

[Hamlet]

Your rationale is refreshing Oneironaut and sorely needed.

Growing up in Church I eventually came to the conclusion that since the conversation was one-sided in prayer, what was the use of begging God for things, (which is pretty much all prayer consisted of, besides the grandiose, ornate ones intended for the congregation to hear). God is going to do what he's going to do and I'm in no position to change his mind or talk him out of it.

But your rationality about such matters, which would apply so perfectly to machines, physics, computers and such, gets muddled up in the human equasion. Science is saying now that our psyches are hardwired for religion and it's something that's probably not going to go away. From a scientific/Darwinian perspective it must have some value as a survival mechanism or it would have passed out of existence in the natural order of things.

The human psyche is very fragile. (read a few posts on here if you desire some proof of that fact) It craves stability and yearns for some kind of hope. I've discovered through experience that the secret to happiness is being able to trust the 'Universe'.--God's in his heaven and all is well." This may or may not be so, but in the midst of all this maddness the world throws at us, some how, in some form we need that psychological anchor to hold on to just to keep on keepin' on.

Even the most logical thinkers/skeptics cling to something-science, the this-therefore-that of philosophy, the church of academics-to the point of zealously and dogmatically defending their beliefs with a foaming lather. Just check out the good professor in the link to 'Root of All Evil' on another thread. He's not trying to investigate or learn, he's out to pick a fight-to defend his own faith.

So, yes I would say prayer has it's place-if for nothing else as an emotional and pyschological safety valve in a hostile and uncertain universe.

And who knows, maybe God is listening--(oh, for those of you who actually hear him talking back, ask him a question for me- 'why nipples on men?')

[Torog]

Howdy Hamlet,

So when God didn't talk back to you,when you prayed as a kid,that's proof to you,that He doesn't exist ? lol

You can't prove that God doesn't exist,any more than I'll be able to prove to you,that He does..till He calls us both Home to the Other Side,and you find out for yer own self.

I do hope,that you consider yerself to be at least,higher on the scale of things,than a mere animal..do you ? Or do ya believe that Humans are no better than animals ? Like the folks at PETA believe ?

Have a good one ...

[Hamlet]

Proof that he doesn't exist? naaa... but if you start adding things up for yourself, (even though you're threatened with hellfire for doing so), you begin to realize that the stories the priest in the funny clothes is telling ya doesn't pan out with what obviously seem to be facts in the real world.

You say to yourself 'now wait a minute', the only input I'm getting on the God stuff is from some group or institution who wants to control things. They demand that I 'believe' every word, undisputed or I'm going to fry like a fritter. Now why would God, or they, want me to believe that on just blind faith? What could possibly be the motives for the folks in charge to want me to do that?

As far as 'higher than the animals'? Nope, we're smarter but one look at the newspaper and I would put my Scotty dog's character and integrity head and shoulders above 90% of the human population on earth. (including my own) If fact, it's this kind of arrogance of the human beasty that has been used for the most atrocious acts in human history. It was 'Manifest Destiny' ordained that justified us slaughtering our way across America. Black skin was the mark of Cain so it was okay to inslave such lower forms of life. etc, etc...

Yup, yup...I'm just a lowly monkey like the rest of you and my answers aren't any better than anyone elses. I don't know who the folks at PETA are but it seems to me they're at least willing to swallow some of that good ol' fashion humility and accept a probable truth in the scheme of things. Wait a minute! humility-isn't that something Jesus taught as a fundamental to the beginning of enlightenment? hhmm, never mind...most people don't bother practicing the 'red letter' parts anyway.

[braddog10]

I have too much to do today, I can't hang out.

One thing is obvious. We are all respectively passionate toward our views.
I just had to quickly check things out..........I have to laugh... this is tooo much fun. You guys...have a nice day. ...Thanks for catchin up Torog

[Binzhoubum]

Because it encourages people to not actually do something about their problems. If you think God will take care of things for you, why bother doing anything yourself? To take an extreme example, Christian Scientists do not believe in medicine; they believe, however, that prayer can heal people. That can be a very damaging belief. Besides that, prayer and other beliefs in supernatural/paranormal claims encourage sloppy thinking and a blatant disregard for rationalism and the scientific method. Am I going to stop anybody from praying? Of course not. But I don't see what's wrong with informing someone when they're doing something very silly and illogical, like praying to a God who supposedly knows all your thoughts anyways.

Agreed. :smokin:

[braddog10]

Because it encourages people to not actually do something about their problems. If you think God will take care of things for you, why bother doing anything yourself? To take an extreme example, Christian Scientists do not believe in medicine; they believe, however, that prayer can heal people. That can be a very damaging belief. Besides that, prayer and other beliefs in supernatural/paranormal claims encourage sloppy thinking and a blatant disregard for rationalism and the scientific method. Am I going to stop anybody from praying? Of course not. But I don't see what's wrong with informing someone when they're doing something very silly and illogical, like praying to a God who supposedly knows all your thoughts anyways.

You raise some good questions, oneironaut. But, I haven't intentionally ignored you. I had others I wanted to address.

I also agree that both the Christian scientist (nothing scientific about them), and Jehovah's witnesses have bizarre med stands. However, the intellectual scientific community, largely by there prejudices, are blind to much that is clearly real. Many historic views....... they have now had to concede, due to clear evidence otherwise.

I find that the scientific community......... far exceeds excesses of the church in their manipulation, and thought programing.....refusing other views.. primarily as it relates to text books.....and still there are dis proven theories published and shoved down the throat's of our kids.

People can walk out of a church and not return. These people hijack entire generations, disallowing any counter view in schools with supporting evidence.......... we have to support them with our tax dollars, Churches accept donations......these people have the IRS .........and they have the hypocritical audacity to label the church as intolerant.

Hypocrisy is very dangerous, I must be very careful myself even addressing it here, I can quickly find myself in the middle of it.
Humility is the only refuge.

I sucker punched ya, and I'm sorry. We've never talked.
I thought of you all day!!!
.
.

[SpiritLevel]

I don't pray. I have establised a never ending full duplex communication between past present and future. I walk and talk with my ancestors regular and we make giant foot prints in the sand; they bring me power when I need it but only after we discuss how this power is used and it is certain no-one gets hurt unless they deserve it. Some people migh say "thas god and praying"? is it? My higher force shares no similarity to the 'In god We Trust" on them green backs.

[Torog]

Proof that he doesn't exist? naaa... but if you start adding things up for yourself, (even though you're threatened with hellfire for doing so), you begin to realize that the stories the priest in the funny clothes is telling ya doesn't pan out with what obviously seem to be facts in the real world.

You say to yourself 'now wait a minute', the only input I'm getting on the God stuff is from some group or institution who wants to control things. They demand that I 'believe' every word, undisputed or I'm going to fry like a fritter. Now why would God, or they, want me to believe that on just blind faith? What could possibly be the motives for the folks in charge to want me to do that?

As far as 'higher than the animals'? Nope, we're smarter but one look at the newspaper and I would put my Scotty dog's character and integrity head and shoulders above 90% of the human population on earth. (including my own) If fact, it's this kind of arrogance of the human beasty that has been used for the most atrocious acts in human history. It was 'Manifest Destiny' ordained that justified us slaughtering our way across America. Black skin was the mark of Cain so it was okay to inslave such lower forms of life. etc, etc...

Yup, yup...I'm just a lowly monkey like the rest of you and my answers aren't any better than anyone elses. I don't know who the folks at PETA are but it seems to me they're at least willing to swallow some of that good ol' fashion humility and accept a probable truth in the scheme of things. Wait a minute! humility-isn't that something Jesus taught as a fundamental to the beginning of enlightenment? hhmm, never mind...most people don't bother practicing the 'red letter' parts anyway.

Howdy Hamlet,

I would like to add to my previous post,that I also say Grace,before I eat anything and I pray for my gal,everytime that she leaves the house and that God will help my old car,to git her back home,safe and sound. My prayer worked yesterday,when she left to go and pick up my friend,my right rear tire,threw the tread yesterday,but stayed inflated and allowed her to git home,safe and sound.

All Good and all blessings,flow from God..it's Man that brings despair and hopelessness,to the world,not God. With God..anything is possible,without God..well..you see the results.

I don't git my "God-stuff",from a preacher..it comes from within,when I allow God and Jesus,into my heart,it comes from life experience,it comes from observation of God's creation. No one has told me how to think or act,and i did not abandon my thouht process,to some preacher.

Unlike you,I'm distinctly aware of the difference between me and a monkey,I have no such delusions.

Btw, PETA,stands for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Go visit their web-site and see just how nutty that they are,for yerself.

Have a good one ...

[graymatter]

I would like to add to my previous post,that I also say Grace,before I eat anything and I pray for my gal,everytime that she leaves the house and that God will help my old car,to git her back home,safe and sound.

I'd say that readily available meals are the result of advances in agricultural technology and distribution channels.

... as for the rest, it's statistical fate. The same forces that keep us from winning the lottery are the same ones that keep us from dying in a plane crash. So, I'm thankful for every day that I check my powerball numbers and see that I haven't won.

[Unraveled]

Well, I think even the conceptual being of the Christian god would want it's followers to be independent in their lives. The organized practice has a different teaching though. I don't think that it is really in the best interest of people to take the concepts of the many forms of Christianity and crusade ideals that try to inspire change against anyone's will for that specific person.

I personally believe that the Christian religion has been soiled by the church and its participators from what the original idea of the teachings of Christ. And therefore, I believe that I am not able to be a follower of Christ because Christs ideals have been lost and inverted over time. But I also believe that the modern ideals of Christianity were spawned of the human mind.

I just think that to say that Christianity is irrational rather than irrational in ones own opinion or to say that Christianity is a reality that transcends personal belief.

[Hamlet]

We disagree a lot Torog but I like you for some reason. I think your heart is in the right place. I just gotta get you straightened out on this monkey bashin' issue....lol

As far as PETA goes I don't like to see any living creature suffer. I would be a vegetarian myself for just that reason, but I just can't get past my inner carnivore. I guess living things eat each other and that's just how it is. Oh well, glad I'm close to the top of the food chain for now :)

Oh, I was kinda moved by your prayers for your girls safety. If I can make a suggestion though maybe you aughta think about rounding her up some new tires?! Remember the old proverb "Trust in Allah-but tie up your camel!".

monkeyman out:)

[zero2104]

yes i do sometimes wen i am having alot of bad times and i want somone to talk to, all of my friends are atheist and so is my brother who is like my role model, and that doesnt effect me at all, because i will do my own thing and not follow the crowd

and no i am not a jesus freak other, i go to church like once in 1-2months

[braddog10]

oneironaut......You are attempting to use logic and reason and rationality to frame something that walks thru walls.

To say that atheism is not a Religion, is just to deceive your self. Atheism has an established view as it relates to the prospect of a God, atheist have there own established Eschatology. I really don't have time to address all that you propose, simply by the statements you make.


You said, Quote: "Atheism is not a religion. It is nothing more than the lack
.....................of a belief in gods. A religion is a structured belief system about the supernatural.
.......................If atheism is a religion, then clear is a color".


Look you snare your self with your own statements,.......You HAVE a structured belief system about the supernatural. You are passionate as it relates to your religion. You have clearly defined parameters.......Come On!!!

Agnostics on the other hand, as far as any I know, are not, they also by definition, are indifferent to the matters of a God or not. They fit your definition of the clear color. Those I have known,.... have no interest in the Spiritual forum. What are you doing here?

I hope this helps, I hope you will be honest with this fact. I hope you do for your own well being. When you accept the fact that you have your own "brand" of religion. You will find your self more appropriately humbled, as we all should be.

Your ridicule of others will stop by default (or should). For you would then be able to see, your hypocrisy. Basically of doing the vary thing to others that you despise of them..........It's unbelievable. ......Ok, check this out......The ridicule of loft pious religious People. .........pause for a minute here.......


The ridicule of lofty pious religious people....... Ok? are you with me?

What are you?
..........Lofty?
..........Pious in your arrogance?.
..........Religious.......absolutely.

Are Lights coming on?

.......I am sorry, This is hard news. ....This will free you to live better than you know. I have had to hear my own....well, I have endured my own pain of correction. I enjoy life more, What I realize now is that life is better than I thought. Or that my previous paradigm allowed.

I am not trying to ridicule you here....I am rebuking yours. I have already quickly stopped Christians from rudeness on atheist threads. None of them displayed such arrogant stupidity on your threads as I have seen of you and and Breuk here.

Where do the two of you fit on the scale of prideful arrogant mocking.....religious hypocrites?

Think about for a while.....

God resist the Proud but Gives Grace to the humble.

[braddog10]

I'm having to reevaluate the time I spend here. I have a lot going on.

I genuinely care for every one here. I have been thinking alot lately about how I may be influencing some that have absolutely no business messing around with the obvious. Especially on the "Sin" thread.

Oneironaut, I have some encouragement, The lord always gave some good news with the hard news. I do see something in you that really does want to know. I don't know your back ground or history. Breuk said some time ago that people are born atheist......which is bullshit. We all have a God shaped place in us. just as you of course do too.

Jesus said "Where your treasure is there your heart will be also".
Stop making investments of your time in your atheist poisonous material,
Your heart (affections) will follow you investments.
You haven't read the Bible, or checked out some good books,
I don't have time now, but I will post a thread I guess.
Chuck your atheist dictionary It will continue to poison. Look at it, It full of mocking ridicule, It is rife with SHIT. You will know things by it's fruit
Rat poison is only 5% poison by volume....this is much much more, and is doing you No good.

.............."What we behold..... we become"

and another,
............."When we see him, we will be like Him, for we shall See Him as He is...


I should already be off, actually I had no business getting on other than getting with you.

Take care, It get's better from here.

[braddog10]

Some will take issue with my use of therm Eschatology. It is a Christian term, and I'll leave it at:

Clearly defined parameters.

[braddog10]

.
.
.
.I would like to apologize, oneironaut. I read your first few sentences on your first repsonse And I responded right from there. Not reading the rest of the post, I just continued on in my own presumtions.

When I did finally read, I felt very uncomfortable with what I had said, I got back out of bed for damage control.I admire your honesty, I can easily say from what I have seen from you here, that your humility displays well, Mercy and Grace follow Humility. I can send you some material that Is very good, I beleive you would really like. I lumped you in with somebody. The mail went to the wrong box. You are reading the Bible, Koran, etc....You are on a search. This seach was initiated from above. I will invest in you. I can send books, music whatever with donations to the bourds, if they forward. I'm way tired I hope this is inteligible. The thing about this material, is that something in you say's YEAH when you here it, These prepare you for the downloads. It's wonderful, they will come in the morning, The last stages before you awaker that will come in, when we are still and open.... I lay on my bed on my back, buck ass naked. I ask him to fill me.
I experence oooh gosh many different things from my ears ringing almost, when this happens I can hear people talking from across the room, there voices thu soft has such definition, and there are many many many other times and ways he does things.

Some time when you are ready, use your words hawever you want to put it.
But ask him to fill you with the holy spirit.


I took a powerful sleep aid its best I stop
Hey ......whats the longest consecutive post?

[Binzhoubum]

:D
Braddog-

I was just wondering what your opinion is reagarding my situation.

I grew up in a household that wasn't very religious but they all believed in the Bible and Christianity and all of that good stuff. As a child, I went to church two times a week and was involved in a Bible study group known as AWANA. I deeply believed everything I was told to be true in that Baptist church, and basically it just made me scared that I was going to hell unless I behaved just like all the adults around me. I really looked up to those people for some time until I got older and realized they all had problems and were all sinning just as much as everyone I knew who didn't go to church.

This observation started making me question the validity of the Christian faith. I guess my young mind couldn't comprehend why people who preach love, peace, goodwill toward man, marital fidelity, abstinence from stealing, not taking the Lord's name in vain, etc...would also be capable of ignoring most everything they claimed to deeply believe when they were not in church. I figured that maybe some other religion held the answers. Or perhaps maybe it was just the Baptist's who were wrong. Now I was only about 12 or 13 at this time, but I guess this initial immature thought lead to a deep investigation of most of the world's religions and my decision to major in Philosophy while in college.

After trying different denominations within the Christian faith, attending a few Hindu worship services with some Indian mates, reading the Quran and listening to my Lebanese friend explain it to me during late-night talks at the Sunoco he worked at, coming to Asia and viewing Buddhist temples, while all the while reading about and trying to comprehend the major tenets of the world's religions, I came to the conclusion and belief that religion IS useful but only as a framework and that books such as the Bible, Quran, the Vedas, etc. should not be taken literally but used as a sort of foundation upon which to build the virtues preached within each of the respective books.

I have read these books with an open mind, but something inside me cannot accept some of the more mystical statements. I am unable to logically understand how any of these religions could be completely true word for word. I believe that the most important thing we can learn from these religions are the major tenets that they all preach---i.e., don't steal, don't kill, be good to your neighbor, etc.

I guess, and maybe I am wrong, but I truly feel this way, that if you are a geniunely good person and you make an attempt to be a good person while you are on this Earth, that God, if he does exist, could not hold you responsible for not believing the CORRECT religion.

Doesn't that kind of scare you too? I mean if God does in fact love us and wants us to be with him in His heavenly kingdom, why would he throw so many other religions out there? To test us? That scares me...I mean we have no real way of telling which religion is correct or incorrect, it's all based on faith! What if someone is a good person and chooses the "wrong" religion? Why would God play games with us like that?

I suppose I will just go on trying to be a friendly, helpful person while I am here, and hope for the best. :thumbsup:

The only religion, which I don't really like to label it as anyway, that I have found appealing to me are religions in the tradition of Buddhism or Hinduism; however, I don't buy into all the idol worship and incense burning ceremonies. I only find their respective ideas and tenets to be more reasonable than other religions.

How could anyone else tell someone that their religion or belief system is wrong unless they were in fact God?!

:smokin:

[braddog10]

:D
Braddog-

I was just wondering what your opinion is reagarding my situation.

I grew up in a household that wasn't very religious but they all believed in the Bible and Christianity and all of that good stuff. As a child, I went to church two times a week and was involved in a Bible study group known as AWANA. I deeply believed everything I was told to be true in that Baptist church, and basically it just made me scared that I was going to hell unless I behaved just like all the adults around me. I really looked up to those people for some time until I got older and realized they all had problems and were all sinning just as much as everyone I knew who didn't go to church.

This observation started making me question the validity of the Christian faith. I guess my young mind couldn't comprehend why people who preach love, peace, goodwill toward man, marital fidelity, abstinence from stealing, not taking the Lord's name in vain, etc...would also be capable of ignoring most everything they claimed to deeply believe when they were not in church. I figured that maybe some other religion held the answers. Or perhaps maybe it was just the Baptist's who were wrong. Now I was only about 12 or 13 at this time, but I guess this initial immature thought lead to a deep investigation of most of the world's religions and my decision to major in Philosophy while in college.

After trying different denominations within the Christian faith, attending a few Hindu worship services with some Indian mates, reading the Quran and listening to my Lebanese friend explain it to me during late-night talks at the Sunoco he worked at, coming to Asia and viewing Buddhist temples, while all the while reading about and trying to comprehend the major tenets of the world's religions, I came to the conclusion and belief that religion IS useful but only as a framework and that books such as the Bible, Quran, the Vedas, etc. should not be taken literally but used as a sort of foundation upon which to build the virtues preached within each of the respective books.

I have read these books with an open mind, but something inside me cannot accept some of the more mystical statements. I am unable to logically understand how any of these religions could be completely true word for word. I believe that the most important thing we can learn from these religions are the major tenets that they all preach---i.e., don't steal, don't kill, be good to your neighbor, etc.

I guess, and maybe I am wrong, but I truly feel this way, that if you are a geniunely good person and you make an attempt to be a good person while you are on this Earth, that God, if he does exist, could not hold you responsible for not believing the CORRECT religion.

Doesn't that kind of scare you too? I mean if God does in fact love us and wants us to be with him in His heavenly kingdom, why would he throw so many other religions out there? To test us? That scares me...I mean we have no real way of telling which religion is correct or incorrect, it's all based on faith! What if someone is a good person and chooses the "wrong" religion? Why would God play games with us like that?

I suppose I will just go on trying to be a friendly, helpful person while I am here, and hope for the best. :thumbsup:

The only religion, which I don't really like to label it as anyway, that I have found appealing to me are religions in the tradition of Buddhism or Hinduism; however, I don't buy into all the idol worship and incense burning ceremonies. I only find their respective ideas and tenets to be more reasonable than other religions.

How could anyone else tell someone that their religion or belief system is wrong unless they were in fact God?!

:smokin:

You have alot heart, Binzhoubum............alot of heart. I new exactly of which denomination you were referring before you mentioned it. I grew up in the same. Though Awanas came later I was an RA.

We both grew up in religious homes. Many don't understand what this means, I didn't until about ten years ago. I admire your search. You indite most Christians by your genuine efforts, I am going to a different city today. I want to answer you question with as much care as I can, for it merits all I have.


I don't want to make the same mistake that I did with oneironaut. I still feel very bad ripping at him, responding after only reading a few sentences of his post.

I am going to defer to later.

Braddog

[Shelbay]

I pray every day..I talk to him all the time. My best friend was killed the 15th of last month..car wreck..she was literally cut into pieces! I talked to him then & told him how I wanted to kill the woman that killed Lana..how I wanted to make her suffer.

I still have hate for her & have even went to her initial court appearances just to see what she looked like..but I still pray for the peace I KNOW God will give me..but it will be in his time,not mine.

Death comes to us all & we will have all the answers then..braddog pray for me..I need all the prayers I can get & I know there is power when two or more gather in his name so please pray for Shelby. Hope all is well for you..I follow your post & they make me happy..I pray for you also.

[braddog10]

I pray every day..I talk to him all the time. My best friend was killed the 15th of last month..car wreck..she was literally cut into pieces! I talked to him then & told him how I wanted to kill the woman that killed Lana..how I wanted to make her suffer.

I still have hate for her & have even went to her initial court appearances just to see what she looked like..but I still pray for the peace I KNOW God will give me..but it will be in his time,not mine.

Death comes to us all & we will have all the answers then..braddog pray for me..I need all the prayers I can get & I know there is power when two or more gather in his name so please pray for Shelby. Hope all is well for you..I follow your post & they make me happy..I pray for you also.

OOOOhhh darlin, I am so sorry, To lose your best friend!.......I love mine!. I can't imagine. Your honesty is so adorable. What you are wrestling thru is common to man as Paul said. There's no shame baby. You are just feeling the energy of what you have lost. Let your self grieve. to deny any of this is to hide it from healing.

Jesus said that the enemy crouches at the door to seize an opportunity. To rip at the vulnerable and hurt. The battle ground is in the mind, as you very well know. Try to take thoughts captive. I'm going to find you some music, Think about how I can get it to you.

The lord always is close to those who mourn, His heart is there. I know you feel vulnerable and exposed. The Lord protects the vulnerable, ....says "don't screw with them for there defender is strong". Isaiah

The Lord sent me some Terry Clark(music) when I needed it. I told Terry personally that I do not know how many copies I've given away.

Terry Clark, "Living worship" and "Secret Place" will be a great comfort during this time. I have bid on this already for you. I will win the bid, and email him carbon copy to you indicating strict privacy for you and your shipping address to be kept in the utmost confidence. If you would like.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&item=280008231784&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT&rd=1

I'll also look for some Kelly willard. She and her husband Dan have had a tough time. They both have been poured out. Pat Rutherford, satellite praise music, plays her alot. The comfort that flows from her.....
"We comfort with the very comfort by which we have been comforted".


I'm on the road in my car. I picked up a wireless for my laptop, to stay in touch. I new you where there. I felt your prayers, I reflect on you daily. I've wondered where you have been. Thank you for lifting me up, to God. I will often post a prayer, this one I will keep private.
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[braddog10]

I found Kelly's site. I noticed that Claudia Rutherford is handling the Booking. Neither Pat nor Claudia know my handle (braddog). Email me and I'll tell you more about them so that when you talk, They can tell you a little about me, we go way back. Kelly's music goes all the way back to the late 70's early 80's (her best work). I was a bit depressed then, trying to figure this Life out. She was the Gift I was given. From the 1st maranatha albums, when an angel would join in and sing,.......It was her. It's not just her voice, it's everything, her own brokenness,..... put to music. "songs and Hymns" and "message to a King" primarily.

[email protected]

http://www.kellywillard.com/id68.html

I'll call Pat and tell Him to expect your call music will be prepaid. He will know to keep your privacy. Pat and Claudia are dear friends,

http://www.pbnradio.com/home/contact.html

http://www.kevinprosch.com/ . . ..Kevin's music is really my favorite. Nothing touches ~ Palanquin ~ (5th dancing column from left).
Journeys of life is outstanding ....also very contemplative. ~ Full of God ~ . Impossibly beautiful is also good.

Where the Spirit is there is healing, He is all over this stuff. The torments or the enemy can't hang around.

I'm emailing Pat, I'm ordering.... just email me.

oneironaut.....I owe you one, email me, Ill double the order.. I'll throw in a couple of books you'll be shocked by some things, specifically His love for you. It's not logical........It doesn't make sense, It's not even fair. But, His Spirit is real nevertheless, and you will enjoy the grip he will have on you. The Lord says Taste and see That I am Good.......mannn, Just when I said that, I remembered ....It's a theme in Journeys of life.

Please Ironaut come on.. your faith, this is critical. your faith does not depend on your grasp of God but of His Grasp (His hold) of you.......Just taste and see my friend, Your honesty is conspicuous, I believe you are really looking for answers....again I'm sorry about earlier, At least let me do this.

Binzhoubum, You also, I have been blessed with some real gems. I don't listen to Christian Pop. What I like doesn't see air play. Still things have not changed. The Lord still hides things, I do not understand it. He spoke in mysteries, during his earthly walk, explained things at night!!??

Those who look will find me,....
Who wants me?.....Look for me,.. I will be found by You .....Call on me...I will say, here I am.

Shelbay.......You do....and you have......and He's already there.
I love you Shelbay,..let Pat love on ya too.

Braddog
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Bizhoubum, I'm still working on yours, it's in a Word perfect file.

[zeebo phillips]

Catholocism seems like a fairy tale to me.

None of it seems real, and if it is, it's hard to believe.

My biggest issue is that it's based on rules. If you do this, you're going to hell. If you don't do this, you're going to hell. Worship him, or live in sin. Whereas in a religion such as Buddhism, it's more of a guideline. Yeah, for strict Buddhists, there's "rules", but for average people, it's just something that isn't as uptight as the catholic religion. I'm not picking on Catholics by any means, cansidering I was raised one, but I think after experiencing church on Sundays, CCD and the surroundings of a Italian family, I've seen and heard enough to bother me.

[braddog10]

Hey... Binzhoubum

[Binzhoubum]

I am here Braddog10...always. :smokin:

[braddog10]

Thought I'd wait for the storm to pass...

[Binzhoubum]

Catholocism seems like a fairy tale to me.

None of it seems real, and if it is, it's hard to believe.

My biggest issue is that it's based on rules. If you do this, you're going to hell. If you don't do this, you're going to hell. Worship him, or live in sin. Whereas in a religion such as Buddhism, it's more of a guideline. Yeah, for strict Buddhists, there's "rules", but for average people, it's just something that isn't as uptight as the catholic religion. I'm not picking on Catholics by any means, cansidering I was raised one, but I think after experiencing church on Sundays, CCD and the surroundings of a Italian family, I've seen and heard enough to bother me.


You could apply the same thing you said about rules in Buddhism to any form of Christianity or any other religion for that matter. :smokin:

There are some Catholics who don't always follow the rules and just use everything more as a guideline. There are some Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, etc. that also do the same.

But then again, if you ARE religious you have to ask yourself: If God made the rules, does he really want them to be followed in a half-ass manner?

:smokin:

[Binzhoubum]

Why do people in the West always think Buddhism is the answer...

I live in a country where many people practice it, and I have been to many temples and such throughout Asia and I really mostly see alot of incense burning and kneeling before statues of various ancient kings, spirits, landowners, etc... It's not like you go to a Buddhist temple and there are hundreds of monks sitting in the lotus position searching for enlightenment...HAHA!!! :Smokin: In the temples I have been to, all of the monks are selling little doo-dads and asking for donations.

I remember this time in Jiuzhaigou (I believe it is in Northwestern Sichuan province extremely close to Tibet) when I climbed up this mountain for four hours to get to the top. At the top they have this huge temple that was built over a number of years of workers carrying all this material up this huge mountain. There was a monk standing in front of the main hall of the temple banging on a gong, smokin a cigarette, saying, "Give me money! Give me money!"

Is that how you picture Buddhists? Don't leave one religion behind and escape to another one until you do real world research and aren't just living off the image inside your head...

I also see a lot of Buddhists here who are perpetually afraid of ghosts and spirits. They always leave offering of fruit and such at the door and burn incense and chant and such not in an attempt to find enlightenment but in an attempt to ward off evil spirits and bring in good luck and money.

The pictures are of Jiuzhaigou. Enjoy! :smokin:

[Hamlet]

I remember this time in Jiuzhaigou (I believe it is in Northwestern Sichuan province extremely close to Tibet) when I climbed up this mountain for four hours to get to the top. At the top they have this huge temple that was built over a number of years of workers carrying all this material up this huge mountain. There was a monk standing in front of the main hall of the temple banging on a gong, smokin a cigarette, saying, "Give me money! Give me money!"

lol...ain't that how it goes?! Take things too seriously and the tricksters always there telling ya to pull his finger :) But enlightenment is there at the top of the mountain anyway--it just wasn't the enlightenment you wanted...lol

[braddog10]

Is that how you picture Buddhists? Don't leave one religion behind and escape to another one until you do real world research and aren't just living off the image inside your head...



lol...ain't that how it goes?! Take things too seriously and the tricksters always there telling ya to pull his finger But enlightenment is there at the top of the mountain anyway--it just wasn't the enlightenment you wanted...lol.



The monk could have raised that gong flat, and had an offering plate that would make any Baptist jealous. Isn't it interesting, that religions of different cultures and great distances reviel the same display of the hearts of man.

The Holy Spirit spoke thru Solomon, Years ago, that there is nothing new under the sun. Sure thereâ??s technology etc.. but when it comes down to matters of the heart,..... hidden or exposed, nothing at all is new.

Heres a good opportunity to clarify differences between religion and and a genuine walk.

I couldn't help but think of the time when the Israelite were moving thru the desert with a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day. God did some wonderfully miraculous things.

It's tremendous moves of God like this that man takes, builds a cathedral or a temple around it, and it becomes a shrine to "Gods move", at that time. Most denominations seem to be frozen in time.

Had this been done In the desert,..... there they would be...... with their "faithful",...... their Temple, Church, whatever,......... and the Pillar of fire and the cloud ~ Long Gone.

Where's the presence of God??
Wasn't He displayed by the fire and the cloud?

As a Christian...I must keep the fire and cloud in view.
Hebrews 12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[braddog10]

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Lord Jesus I thank you for this day, For these here on the boards. I appreciate your presence here. I ask that you would increase. Remove the blocks that the enemy has placed over the eyes of all of us, that block our view of you, and how good you are. I pray for all that donâ??t know you, open the eyes of their understanding. Heal the wounds that I inflicted upon oneironaut, breuk and gray. Help them understand that it is the diception that grips them that I dispise, for I care for them very very much.

Lord, ....as you know pride has been having a hard time with his dad. Strengthen this boy, give him the discernment to keep offenses in perspective of the manâ??s illness. Gaurd over birdgirl and her family. Protect them from the evil one. Give her sister visions of you, during this time to prepare her and to give her peace as she parts. And God........Be very close to da haze meister and his brother. Help them rebuild their home, for the foundation has been removed. Be their dad just as you revieled your self to be mine at a young age.

I pray for Shelby, to lose your best friend......what a hole it leaves. Protect her from evil, I ask that a root of bitterness will find no soil. Keep her in your intensive care. May she find her comfort in you during this time.
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[mrdevious]

Why do people in the West always think Buddhism is the answer...

I live in a country where many people practice it, and I have been to many temples and such throughout Asia and I really mostly see alot of incense burning and kneeling before statues of various ancient kings, spirits, landowners, etc... It's not like you go to a Buddhist temple and there are hundreds of monks sitting in the lotus position searching for enlightenment...HAHA!!! :Smokin: In the temples I have been to, all of the monks are selling little doo-dads and asking for donations.

I remember this time in Jiuzhaigou (I believe it is in Northwestern Sichuan province extremely close to Tibet) when I climbed up this mountain for four hours to get to the top. At the top they have this huge temple that was built over a number of years of workers carrying all this material up this huge mountain. There was a monk standing in front of the main hall of the temple banging on a gong, smokin a cigarette, saying, "Give me money! Give me money!"

Is that how you picture Buddhists? Don't leave one religion behind and escape to another one until you do real world research and aren't just living off the image inside your head...

I also see a lot of Buddhists here who are perpetually afraid of ghosts and spirits. They always leave offering of fruit and such at the door and burn incense and chant and such not in an attempt to find enlightenment but in an attempt to ward off evil spirits and bring in good luck and money.

The pictures are of Jiuzhaigou. Enjoy! :smokin:

What you are describing isn't necessarily buddhism though. I sought out buddhism and have gained a lot from it, particularily now. But I don't base my beliefs on what the monks do, I don't even adhere to a particular sect, I merely study the teachings to the best of my ability and live by the philosophy as my mind interprets it.

I think the whole world would be a lot better off if we all stopped basing religion on what the leaders and temples do, and just studied the teachings of the originators, using these teachings to live to the best of our ability. Just imagine if christians stopped going to church and simply did their best to live as Jesus did.

There are many enlightened beings throughout history with great knowledge to give, the problems arise when the followers try to adopt the same status as the original teacher.

[zeebo phillips]

You could apply the same thing you said about rules in Buddhism to any form of Christianity or any other religion for that matter. :smokin:

There are some Catholics who don't always follow the rules and just use everything more as a guideline. There are some Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, etc. that also do the same.

But then again, if you ARE religious you have to ask yourself: If God made the rules, does he really want them to be followed in a half-ass manner?

:smokin:

Yeah that's kind of in the direction I was going.

I got myself confused while writing it, haha.

[zeebo phillips]

Why do people in the West always think Buddhism is the answer...

I live in a country where many people practice it, and I have been to many temples and such throughout Asia and I really mostly see alot of incense burning and kneeling before statues of various ancient kings, spirits, landowners, etc... It's not like you go to a Buddhist temple and there are hundreds of monks sitting in the lotus position searching for enlightenment...HAHA!!! :Smokin: In the temples I have been to, all of the monks are selling little doo-dads and asking for donations.

I remember this time in Jiuzhaigou (I believe it is in Northwestern Sichuan province extremely close to Tibet) when I climbed up this mountain for four hours to get to the top. At the top they have this huge temple that was built over a number of years of workers carrying all this material up this huge mountain. There was a monk standing in front of the main hall of the temple banging on a gong, smokin a cigarette, saying, "Give me money! Give me money!"

Is that how you picture Buddhists? Don't leave one religion behind and escape to another one until you do real world research and aren't just living off the image inside your head...

I also see a lot of Buddhists here who are perpetually afraid of ghosts and spirits. They always leave offering of fruit and such at the door and burn incense and chant and such not in an attempt to find enlightenment but in an attempt to ward off evil spirits and bring in good luck and money.

The pictures are of Jiuzhaigou. Enjoy! :smokin:

I never said Buddhism is the answer, I'm just saying it generally has better morals, for me at least.

[Binzhoubum]

Hey guys! Don't get me wrong...I am not bashing Buddhism. In fact, I agree with many teachings of Buddhism and try to live my life accordingly. :smokin:

Except for that vegetarian thing...HAHA! That ain't happenin'! :)

I guess I was just trying to make the point that: All the icons we associate with a religion and all the ideas that such iconography has created within our minds, coupled with our own unique social and cultural contexts and upbringings often brings to mind the wrong concept of a religion and what it stands for...

:smokin:

[Binzhoubum]

I never said Buddhism is the answer, I'm just saying it generally has better morals, for me at least.

Buddha and Jesus, for all intensive purposes, taught the same morals and principles to live by. They more or less just disagreed about what happened if you followed these principles and why you should.

I found this on the internet and thought it was interesting:


Buddhism is not a religion. It is about ending suffering. It teaches you how to end your suffering. It is common platform so every body can practice the teachings no matter what religion you are in.

:smokin:

[mrdevious]

Buddhism is not a religion. It is about ending suffering. It teaches you how to end your suffering. It is common platform so every body can practice the teachings no matter what religion you are in.

While that's true, it's also a bit oversimplified. It teaches a philosophy to end suffering in ones-self and to those around you. The idea is to attain an extinction of the ego, the concept of "self", which leads to an end to suffering. But it also teaches, through lifting the illusion of "self", that compassion for all life is not just essential, but logical. When the ego is gone, one realizes that the end to suffering for your own being is no more or less important than ending suffering for all other beings. It is the conditioned ego that convinces us that our own needs are somehow more important than that of any other life, which suffers just as you do.

[braddog10]

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:D
Braddog-

I was just wondering what your opinion is reagarding my situation.

I grew up in a household that wasn't very religious but they all believed in the Bible and Christianity and all of that good stuff. As a child, I went to church two times a week and was involved in a Bible study group known as AWANA. I deeply believed everything I was told to be true in that Baptist church, and basically it just made me scared that I was going to hell unless I behaved just like all the adults around me. I really looked up to those people for some time until I got older and realized they all had problems and were all sinning just as much as everyone I knew who didn't go to church.

This observation started making me question the validity of the Christian faith. I guess my young mind couldn't comprehend why people who preach love, peace, goodwill toward man, marital fidelity, abstinence from stealing, not taking the Lord's name in vain, etc...would also be capable of ignoring most everything they claimed to deeply believe when they were not in church. I figured that maybe some other religion held the answers. Or perhaps maybe it was just the Baptist's who were wrong. Now I was only about 12 or 13 at this time, but I guess this initial immature thought lead to a deep investigation of most of the world's religions and my decision to major in Philosophy while in college.


After trying different denominations within the Christian faith, attending a few Hindu worship services with some Indian mates, reading the Quran and listening to my Lebanese friend explain it to me during late-night talks at the Sunoco he worked at, coming to Asia and viewing Buddhist temples, while all the while reading about and trying to comprehend the major tenets of the world's religions, I came to the conclusion and belief that religion IS useful but only as a framework and that books such as the Bible, Quran, the Vedas, etc. should not be taken literally but used as a sort of foundation upon which to build the virtues preached within each of the respective books.

I have read these books with an open mind, but something inside me cannot accept some of the more mystical statements. I am unable to logically understand how any of these religions could be completely true word for word. I believe that the most important thing we can learn from these religions are the major tenets that they all preach---i.e., don't steal, don't kill, be good to your neighbor, etc.

I guess, and maybe I am wrong, but I truly feel this way, that if you are a geniunely good person and you make an attempt to be a good person while you are on this Earth, that God, if he does exist, could not hold you responsible for not believing the CORRECT religion.

Doesn't that kind of scare you too? I mean if God does in fact love us and wants us to be with him in His heavenly kingdom, why would he throw so many other religions out there? To test us? That scares me...I mean we have no real way of telling which religion is correct or incorrect, it's all based on faith! What if someone is a good person and chooses the "wrong" religion? Why would God play games with us like that?

I suppose I will just go on trying to be a friendly, helpful person while I am here, and hope for the best.

The only religion, which I don't really like to label it as anyway, that I have found appealing to me are religions in the tradition of Buddhism or Hinduism; however, I don't buy into all the idol worship and incense burning ceremonies. I only find their respective ideas and tenets to be more reasonable than other religions.

How could anyone else tell someone that their religion or belief system is wrong unless they were in fact God?!

__________________
:smokin:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is alot to this, It will a bit lengthy to atempt to address just the first part. One thing that struck me, are similarities with something I haden't seen before. My wife and I housed a Satanic ritual abuse victim. We knew her issues to a degree and to offer spiritual aid was our primary goal. We learned a tremendous amount during this time, she was fractured into countless multiple personalities, we learned from one of the adolescents, (who is a part of her), some of the activities involved. It may not make much difference but we do know that she was at least a third generation practicing satanist. Her father was actually very high up in the local organization.

These poor kids are lead to do sick things with others, themselves, animals, whatever.....then afterward.... told how unworthy they are,...â?�look what you did!!! God does not like you!!!....He hates you! He condemns this!..... people dressed in police uniforms and would do disgusting things, some even in clerical robes.

Itâ??s hard for me to understand this, I do know that there is primarily demonic possession and control at these times.
Can you imagine?......... the systematic destruction of safety, and security, .....the loss of respect and trust, .....the fear and avoidance of authorities, ........ the abuses by authorities......Starting to sound familiar?


What we suffered growing up binzhoubum, was the effects of a â??Spirit of Religionâ?� it is similar, for it is demonic. The situation above is an extreme case, but much clarity can be gained by the comparison of extreme cases, a popular tool especially used in calculus, to observe the end result of something. The methodologies vary to a degree but primarily in there severity, the fruit however is the same. If A = C, and B=C, then A=B.



I should qualify,.... that the grasp ..that ..the â??Spirit of religionâ?� has on many churches has greatly diminished but only to the degree of which religion has been rejected in the lives of those that are involved in the given church. The lord has imparted much insight now concerning this, largely through the honesty on the part of leadership and others worn out by the burden of carrying the weight of self righteousness, And finally accept His imputed righteousness He has provided for us. This is when we change, when we are smitten with his provision, especially after laboring ourselves, It makes it all the more special,...... at least a consolation.

This subject could easily take volumes. I could define terms which would help but one is necessary .... ~ Self righteousness ~ , the quote â??people of Godâ?� during Jesus earthly period were under the delusion that their own righteous acts provided them refuge. The fruit of this error is ugly and would require time to explain, ...However.... Jesus, to break them out of this, said some shocking things, â??If your righteousness does not exceed the most disciplined religious man you will not enter. He expanded the ten commandments, If you have hated your brother....you are guilty of murder. If you dig the chick in the skirt or tight jeans and find you imagination wandering......you are guilty of the sin of adultery. He made this clear through the entirety of His earthly ministry, that this level of righteousness is impossible in our skin. To place a final nail, He said if we are guilty of one, we are guilty of all. The possibility of our own righteousness is road kill, to remain in the road and to be repeatedly run over by traffic.

Religion comes in through our pride, In our skin.......we donâ??t want to need God. We want to be Ok,....Sure relationship with Him is fine, But,......Hey God!......Man! Iâ??ll beat this! Forgive me for now! But Iâ??ll whip this thing!!! Not realizing that this is just one of the many cars in the traffic that will smear us across the pavement. He says All who are weary come to me and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, I will also lead you to places that you know not, and have no ability to get to on your own. Back then they would never yoke two new ox â??s together, they place the new ox with one familiar with the path.

â??If we say ..We have no sin, then the truth is not in us and we make Him out to be a liarâ?�. ....

Religion is slave driver It greats heavily on me to face Him as a failure in some ways. The temptation is strong. The need to be Ok....

We must be very honest here our selves, the deception, the delusion is too great. I could go around slamming the church, others, whatever, and find myself having fallen right into it myself, I must also not allow myself to be deluded to think that I am totally free from it. It (this demon) works extremely hard against the church. To get a believer, a church or denomination to look to ones self for satisfaction of ones own righteousness, is to ensnare them, big time.

It is imperative to accept appropriate humility, realizing that I suffer the same disease. When I do so, I can love others through this, and be the spiritual one that the lord can use to remove the speck from my brothers eye. Even though ......I am the leper, and I am the blind man.

Well, to conclude, to labor under this perception of God as a the harsh task master making all jump thru these impossible hoops, the "religious" church and parents, claim that X, Y, and Z. Are Good and Imperative, but reality reveals itâ??s absence, respect of authority is castrated, God, Parents,

...Remember,.....then afterward.... told how unworthy they are,...â?�look what you did!!! God does not like you!!!....He hates you! He condemns this!..... .. . . .again, sound familiar?...... (what ever they despise), Subconsciously accepts other behaviors (hay there socially acceptable, In my circles). Historically,.how about slavery, the civil war, preached from the southern pulpits. Did they here God, Or were they operating under a political spirit, that has been so prevalent thru the time of the prophets thru the period of the kings clear to today......Speaking basically what people want to hear. We desperately need God.... Is the world laboring under a false perception of God???
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[Binzhoubum]

Very interesting. :smokin:

I think the majority of the world is laboring under a false perception of God. Or perhaps it's more of a misconception.

:stoned:

[braddog10]

I never said Buddhism is the answer, I'm just saying it generally has better morals, for me at least.


Hey Zeeb, Interesting sig......I have to chuckle everytime I see that.

[Sun Is Shining]

I have prayed before...whether or not there is a God...I found it to be therapeutic at the time. I've been raised Jewish..though I really do not follow any of the "guidelines" in my religion. I've never been one for organized religion much, as I find myself too open-minded to dismiss anyone's beliefs entirely. Do I think it's likely there is a God? No, I don't. But I can't bring myself to completely dismiss the possibility one may exist.

[zeebo phillips]

Hey Zeeb, Interesting sig......I have to chuckle everytime I see that.


Hahahaha, thanks dear.

[chris420]

I used to pray when I was a kid, I was raised in a catholic family. The belief of being heard when I prayed sank one day a long time ago and I find it absurd now. Yet I still believe that prayer is very powerful to the person with complete faith in it. He is creating his own reality and he can bend it if his faith is strong enough even if its for a mere invisible god watching down upon us from a celestial body called heaven. Thats what believers call miracles from a higher being, I look at it more like a miracle done through his deep unconditional belief that something was going to happen.

[Inferius]

I've prayed when I was forced, or when in desperation.
Usually when my psychotic mother went on another illogical fascist rampage, I'd immediately plead to god to save me from more verbal abuse.
I don't beleive in a personal relationship with a higher power. Still. It's always worth a try.