those opposing illegal immigration... consider this:

[xblackdogx]

Illegal immigrants employ jobs such as restaurants, lawn service, construction, agriculture, and hotels. Let's say business owners are punished for hiring illegal workers (getting paid 5-6). They all have to hire native-born or legal immigrants on the books which they pay (10-12, which actually costs 15-17/hr b/c of taxes the companies pay for each worker).

Now think about the hundreds of thousands of jobs, and see how they effect the the profits of ALL restaurants (pizza to steak joints), lawn service (cutting grass or removing trees), construction (of houses, businesses), agriculture (apples to avocados), and hotels (holiday in to the hyatt).... they all would have to pay over 10 dollars more for EACH worker, how do you think they will pay? higher prices to consumers!

We are shooting ourselves in the foot not letting them work here. Extreme inflation along with regular wages staying the same is bad news for everyone. Who is going to be happy when we cannot go one day without at least one product being produced or served by illegal immigrants, and now pay a much higher price for it while you're still making the same as last year.

[KingPhilie]

aparently somoene has seen a day without mexicans ;), good shit, and yes your true.

The main argument behind illegal aliens=bad is that "there getting free schoolen for their kids", well that is taken care of in property taxes, so if there in a rent house,apt, or w/e besides living under a bridge, when they pay there rent/lease a portion of that goes to taxes, thus, their tax payers (in a sense), they just aint got greed cards.

.PEACE.

[grinthenbearit]

another person could argue that illegal immigrants force the honest business owner out of business because he will have difficulty delivering the same service as the other business owner who employs illegal immigrants. The end result is less tax revenue which can mean more deficit lower wages for militARY SERVICE PEOPLE, FIRE FIGHTERS ECT.

I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS......GIVING CONVICTS FROM FORIEGN COUNTRIES A BETTER LIFE AS A ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE USA AT THE COST OF LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING FOR LEGAL RESIDENTS.

IF WE FORCED ALL THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS OUT OF THE USA WE WOULD BENEFIT ALL LEGAL RESIDENTS BY OVERALL IMPROVING THEIR STANDARD OF LIVING.

I tink it is a issue of helping the less wealthy or improving the lives of the legal residents.

What am I gonna do about it.


well, myself being the person who cares about my standard of living.....I think I will move to canada or Europe a soon as feasibly possible.....there is no way to keep people that motivated out of the USA's opportunities

[Sauce]

Big march for it in Dallas tomorrow, biggest march going to be recorded i heard. I agree with the post

[Freshy]

illegal immigrants cost each american $1200 a year in taxes (english as a second language, ESL class)... they sued Arizona for $21 million. they cost Colorado around $1 billion a year. they are rioting in California about Revolution being the solution.

i'm not against them but, they should get at least minimum wage. if we paid them minimum wage, then there would be no real reason to hire them over other people. they should come here legally (but the unskilled ones can't). and we need to tighten the border up (700 Arabic people caught crossing illegaly by Minute Men, 50 of which were al quaida)

basically:
-pay over minimum wage
-cross legally
-stop rioting
-stop suing us, i think they were bitching about no Mexican history in school
-get the national guard on border (not much weed from Mexico anyways)
-ESL doesn't matter, we'll be speakin spanish in 10 or 11 years

PS: it's predicted that in 2016 America will be 52% hispanic and in 2020 there will be a hispanic president

[slipknotpsycho]

i'm not sure where i stand on this... but i definately see how if there were no illegal workers, that we'd suffer when it came to consumer prices, but i also hate how all these thuggish mexicans around here (i live right near the boarder) want to start shit with white people, just because we're white... a classic example is me walking down the street minding my own fucking buisness then anywhere between 4-8 mexicans spot me and start saying shit like "hey whiteboy, come here" which i don't, cuz i know they just want to fight, i have no desire to fight which then moves to more 'intimidation' and more 'white-boy' insults... ye aif those fuckers wanna come here, they better learn to come here, and be a normal fucking citizen, rather then showing how bad ass you are, which i don't think you are, if you have to have anyone else to 'show' how bad ass you are, then you're not bad ass you're just some little punk-pussy hybrid.

[tokinggreg]

Illegal immigrants employ jobs such as restaurants, lawn service, construction, agriculture, and hotels. Let's say business owners are punished for hiring illegal workers (getting paid 5-6). They all have to hire native-born or legal immigrants on the books which they pay (10-12, which actually costs 15-17/hr b/c of taxes the companies pay for each worker).

Now think about the hundreds of thousands of jobs, and see how they effect the the profits of ALL restaurants (pizza to steak joints), lawn service (cutting grass or removing trees), construction (of houses, businesses), agriculture (apples to avocados), and hotels (holiday in to the hyatt).... they all would have to pay over 10 dollars more for EACH worker, how do you think they will pay? higher prices to consumers!

We are shooting ourselves in the foot not letting them work here. Extreme inflation along with regular wages staying the same is bad news for everyone. Who is going to be happy when we cannot go one day without at least one product being produced or served by illegal immigrants, and now pay a much higher price for it while you're still making the same as last year.

It's a good argument, but I thought just to level the playing field I would offer some arguments from the other side of the table (I personally am not going to state which side I agree with)

1) Hiring illegal immigrants forces American (unskilled) workers out of jobs they could have potentially had. The gap you mentioned of $10 more for each worker is instead being doled out by the government in the form of unemployment insurance, so there are no extra expenses (in total). Yes, there are more expenses for restaurant owners but less for the government. Maybe a temporary solution would be a subsidy for restaurant owners? I don't know, I'm just giving some ideas.

2) Yes, prices will rise with the rising costs for the restaurant owners, and these costs will be bore by the consumers. But consider, less people start eating at restaurants because it becomes too expensive. Say now instead of eating out 4 times a week, they cut back to once a week and cook the other days (realize food prices haven't changed, just labor prices). Restaurants will be forced to cut their costs until the prices are cutthroat, and competition will drive down price not quite as low as it was before, but almost as much.

So in other words, the point in 2) that is being made is that consumers will bare minimal amounts of the cost, but owning a restaurant will be less profitable. This seems kind of gloomy, but as production rises, the market tends to ameliorate these kinds of problems. In the short term you would probably only see a change in the amount of diners and lower-end restaurants that are opening.

Now feel free to choose which side you agree with. I think both sides of the argument have their merits.

Best,
GC

[grinthenbearit]

In regards to that street fight taunt you were talking about you might be interested in this video clip of what looks like a broken neck for the looser.

This adult web site (21 and older only) KILLSOMETIME has a "felony fight" between two supposedly released convicted felons http://www.killsometime.com/video/video.asp?ID=454

[xblackdogx]

2) Yes, prices will rise with the rising costs for the restaurant owners, and these costs will be bore by the consumers. But consider, less people start eating at restaurants because it becomes too expensive. Say now instead of eating out 4 times a week, they cut back to once a week and cook the other days (realize food prices haven't changed, just labor prices). Restaurants will be forced to cut their costs until the prices are cutthroat, and competition will drive down price not quite as low as it was before, but almost as much.

this would be a true statement, but you have to consider that food prices are going to be changing aswell [consider the farming jobs].

anyway, the end result of a shift in the supply of goods [b/c of rising costs] and will drive up the prices and they will stay at that price. the way to counteract this effect would be to raise money-wage rates [companies will pay ppl more, it will eventually work out... "the invisible hand type stuff"]...

so basically it will eventually work out to be essentially the same cost for things [income/prices ratio], but it will take awhile, and we will see the burden with very high inflation spikes in the meantime.

bottom line: this is a foolish thing to do, the economy is currently good and it will change

[xblackdogx]

I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS......GIVING CONVICTS FROM FORIEGN COUNTRIES A BETTER LIFE AS A ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE USA AT THE COST OF LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING FOR LEGAL RESIDENTS.


the MAJORITY of them are not convicts. once illegally getting into the country they fear doing things illegal b/c they will get arrested or deported [the workers].

FYI- America accepted hundreds of known convicts from Cuba in our recent history, yet we can't allow some hard working people

[grinthenbearit]

why else would someone risk their life crossing the barin deserts for less than minimum wage and no benefits in the U.S.?

The numbers are very high of dead illegal aliens in the desert from dehydration!

[xblackdogx]

why else would someone risk their life crossing the barin deserts for less than minimum wage and no benefits in the U.S.?

The numbers are very high of dead illegal aliens in the desert from dehydration!

why would someone bring something up that is irrelevant.
and the answer is b/c they feel it is worse for them where they are coming from... duh :confused:

why do they think is better is the real question. the American Dream is an illusion that is rarely attainable which is so widely mentioned that it is the envy of all foreign countries dealing with instabilities.

[Jeff Spicoli]

the MAJORITY of them are not convicts. once illegally getting into the country they fear doing things illegal b/c they will get arrested or deported [the workers].
They are convicts the second they come into this country illegally. Therefor, ALL of them are convicts. happy saturday, get high

[xblackdogx]

They are convicts the second they come into this country illegally. Therefor, ALL of them are convicts. happy saturday, get high
yea, i implied that by saying once coming into the country illegally they stop doing illegal behavioral things b/c of fear of getting caught :thumbsup:

and having that as your arguement is ridiculous, need not mention the fact that you probably have nothing to say about the ORIGINAL statement i made

[rhino44]

yea, i implied that by saying once coming into the country illegally they stop doing illegal behavioral things b/c of fear of getting caught :thumbsup:

and having that as your arguement is ridiculous, need not mention the fact that you probably have nothing to say about the ORIGINAL statement i made

thats laughable. to imply that as soon as these illegals get over they are afraid to commit crimes is absurd. in my city alone crime has risen exponentially because of these illegal immigrants. home invasions, robberries and murder are all on the rise inpart because so many of these immigrants totally disregard our laws and our citizens

also it makes me sick how so many of them dont even want to make an effort to learn english or adapt to an american society. there are neighberhoods that have been overrun by these immigrants where nobody speaks english. they have brought the standard of living down for everybody nearby and forced many to move do to this.

sure its great to be proud of where your from. but your not there anymore. please learn how to adapt. i dont give a fuck if food goes up 200 percent. i want a decent living standard and imo all these illegals bring it down.

[pabloescobar209]

Illegal immigrants employ jobs such as restaurants, lawn service, construction, agriculture, and hotels. Let's say business owners are punished for hiring illegal workers (getting paid 5-6). They all have to hire native-born or legal immigrants on the books which they pay (10-12, which actually costs 15-17/hr b/c of taxes the companies pay for each worker).

Now think about the hundreds of thousands of jobs, and see how they effect the the profits of ALL restaurants (pizza to steak joints), lawn service (cutting grass or removing trees), construction (of houses, businesses), agriculture (apples to avocados), and hotels (holiday in to the hyatt).... they all would have to pay over 10 dollars more for EACH worker, how do you think they will pay? higher prices to consumers!

We are shooting ourselves in the foot not letting them work here. Extreme inflation along with regular wages staying the same is bad news for everyone. Who is going to be happy when we cannot go one day without at least one product being produced or served by illegal immigrants, and now pay a much higher price for it while you're still making the same as last year.
No it's more like we have been shooting ourselves in the foot for letting them come here for so long, because in doing so they have driven down or kept the cost the same to do the same work for the past 30-40 years. yes it is true that onsumer prices will rise drastically but that will only get worse the longer they stay and work, because at some point they will all get deported, or laws will become strict enough for them to be unable to find work. The fact is that if they would ahve never came here all the companies that expolit them would ahve had to either go out of business or keep up with the times and technology to be able to still pay US workers decent money, and turn a profit thmselves, but this didnt happen and now look.

[bobbyhardcore]

I fully agree with you there mate, and im from the UK and if all illegal immigrants, or legal immigrants, where to have stopped working in Maggie Thatchers era, then our economy would have stopped and hell would have broken loose. SO they are beneficial, but are they actually beneficial when they enter our company illegally, are a drain on our resources in benefits etc, taking up housing, begging etc. I am all for helping people, as im no american, lol just jokin ;) , but i think our governments need to look after us a bit more, i hate the idea of us becoming a nanny state and i want to do everything to prevent this but i don't think it's in revolution, it's in changing the views of the government in order to help us out, to benefit us. So when you say that to those opposing illegal immigrants you gta think about those that actually live in the country, by all means immigrants that are legal i have no problem with, but if theyre in my country and taking up jobs, and i need a job, or my mates need jobs, or theirs a girl been murdered and it's on the second page of the newspaper where on the front page it's 5 more illegal immigrants coming in through the channel tunnel from france, i get pissed off.

Cheers

Bob

[Shelbay]

Why do illegals not even make the attempt to learn english? And if they love America so much..why are they sending billions back to Mexico? The ones I know around here will not even make an attempt to learn english..and its not a good thing for the children. I was in the drug store (yes a real one) waiting in line to pick up my order..in front of me was a obviously illegal couple with three children..they had medicine being explained to them by the pharmacist on the different dosages for the children..they could not speak a word of english! Didn't have a clue on how to give the right dosage to their children..made me so sad. Then their son..he looked like he was maybe 7 or 8 he comes over and starts translating for his parents..that made me so proud of him..but ashamed of his parents..make them at least learn english if they stay here..it should be a requirement to speak english before becoming a citizen.

[j0k3r]

They are convicts the second they come into this country illegally. Therefor, ALL of them are convicts. happy saturday, get high
your dumb ass imigrated to so I wouldnt be talkin shit. If your ansestors wouldnt of came over a long time ago you wouldn't be livin here. All you guys did was steal land from us mexicans and the native americans.:cursing:

[chisme]

wish my country wouldnt let all the cunts in.

fuck tony blair

[chisme]

imagine what that dick tony would feel if he put the words fuck and tony blair in google

[benagain]

what about all the people trying to get here the right way? Illeagles are making it harder and harder every day. Find someone who has or is trying to come over the right way. I don't care if they're mexican or not, they're pissed off at the illeagles. It can takes years anymore to get to live here, but pedro can jump a fence and work just about anywhere. It's just not fair. I don't care one way or the other as to where your from. Our country is made up of people who wanted a way of of a crappy life. I'm happy for anyone who gets to come over, but don't screw other honest people out of a chance to get a decent job.

[DoctorFeelGood]

Lol me and the wife just talked about this and my answer to this problem was very simple.


PULL ALL our TROOPS out of Iraq and let those bastards suicide themselves to death then bring all the troops home and instead of sending our BOYS to these other countries post there asses in our country and on our borders and keep these illegals out and help round up the ones that are already here.
(We have the best armed forces in the world its time we use those resources for our own country and stop prying in on these other countries)

In 5 years we americans will be a minority in our own country how fucked up is that.

There is a right and wrong way to get here those who have come here the right way deserve to be here those who come illegal should be either sent back or put in a special work prison and use them for free labor until there sentence expires then ship them back.
Thats my 2 cents
DFG

[pabloescobar209]

My theory is when they see people jumping a fence, ahve sombody warn them that they are going to be shot if they keep going(in spanish of course) and if they dont stop... bang... problem solved.

[xblackdogx]

In 5 years we [WHITE] americans will be a minority in our own country how fucked up is that.


Americans have been dealing with immigration since the beginning of our time here as if it was dandy. For you to say ^^^ would mean that you don't agree with the millions upon millions of French, Spanish, German, Russian, Polish, English, Swiss that came here prior to the times you are living in. Now we classify most of these people White Americans but were are still calling the Mexicans and Spanish that are BORN HERE Mexicans and Latino, they aren't getting integrated into the term AMERICAN, in which those born here are. So being a minority in your own country: first it's not suprising, second, if we classified things correctly it wouldnt be so confusing.

Is it not right to classify the Nicaraguan's offspring that is born here, legally for all flame war battles, not an American, but we did so with the offspring of a German that arrived here.



Why do illegals not even make the attempt to learn english?

Why don't you compare this with other countries in the world? Canada has two major languages, because they are comprised of 2 major groups that choose to speak that language. I am all for getting Hispanics, Asians, etc to learn English, but to condemn them for it is absurd. And for America to be a country made up of ALL immigrants it is hypocritical to not allow another language to be represented in gov't documents, street signs, etc. That is something that you have to deal with, if you don't like it become an immigrant and move, but very few countries have only 1 language spoken.



thats laughable. to imply that as soon as these illegals get over they are afraid to commit crimes is absurd. in my city alone crime has risen exponentially because of these illegal immigrants. home invasions, robberries and murder are all on the rise inpart because so many of these immigrants totally disregard our laws and our citizens

if you read all my posts, i said the majority of them. Of course there are some gangbangers, just like black or white ones. The people that do these activities SHOULD NOT be here. the ONLY holder of blame for this is the American Government b/c they don't make an effort to stop these illegal gangbangers as effectively as they should

[chisme]

My theory is when they see people jumping a fence, ahve sombody warn them that they are going to be shot if they keep going(in spanish of course) and if they dont stop... bang... problem solved.


id love that job ..sniping at out illegals all day have u guy seen the vid on killsometime.com? he picks up about ten illegasl promising them work and money then he drops them off at the imigration constitute lmao

[Shelbay]

For them NOT to learn english is absurd..next time you quote me..do the entire quote and stop lying saying I condemn them for not speaking english! To put your offspring in jeopardy because you chose to come to a country where spanish is not the primary language (yet) and not even have a fundamental grasp to read directions on medication is dangerous..just don't put part of my quote...very misleading from my original post on the english language and the context I posted in....and for you to tell me if I don't like it to move is just stupid..downright stupid....I am an American..a LEGAL American that speaks both english and very fluent Spanish so don't presume to lecture me on mastering a foreign language...and I am not the ones with children having to spend an hour to have directions explained to me..after all...I am in the Country I was born in!

[chisme]

and I am not the ones with children having to spend an hour to have directions explained to me..after all...I am in the Country I was born in!


lol shelbay your right man i saw a chinese prick on tv the other day complaining about MY country because no one understood him and couldnt tell him directions.


U KNOW WHAT I SAY? IF U DONT LIKE MY COUNTRY THEN FUCK OFF BACK TO YOURS where they eat dogs and suffer malnutrition. i mean cmon i wouldnt go to india and complain they cant understand my english im at fault not them . lol u know why the japanese woman come here? because its illegall in THEIR country to have more then 2 kids ..obviously the dirty slags cant keep in there pants.......its just like all the AIDS and HIV in africa...WHY DO THEY ALL HAVE AIDS? BECAUSE THEY WONT STOP SHAGGING EACH OTHER the fucking scum

[xblackdogx]

For them NOT to learn english is absurd..next time you quote me..do the entire quote and stop lying saying I condemn them for not speaking english! To put your offspring in jeopardy because you chose to come to a country where spanish is not the primary language (yet) and not even have a fundamental grasp to read directions on medication is dangerous..just don't put part of my quote...very misleading from my original post on the english language and the context I posted in....and for you to tell me if I don't like it to move is just stupid..downright stupid....I am an American..a LEGAL American that speaks both english and very fluent Spanish so don't presume to lecture me on mastering a foreign language...and I am not the ones with children having to spend an hour to have directions explained to me..after all...I am in the Country I was born in!
i quoted part of your quote, b/c that is what i was emphasizing, as i did w/ most that i have quoted.
[and condemn= dissaprove of]


Then their son..he looked like he was maybe 7 or 8 he comes over and starts translating for his parents..that made me so proud of him..but ashamed of his parents..make them at least learn english if they stay here..it should be a requirement to speak english before becoming a citizen.


and when did i lecture you on mastering a foreign language... read my post directed towards you and i have simply said it is WRONG to force a language upon someone from a different ethnic group. Thats like telling everyone in Egypt they MUST learn Arabic b/c it is there official language. Wake up to reality and you will see that Egypt is obviously not all Arabic and many speak English, so y are saying to do it in the United States.

[grinthenbearit]

to say that land belonged to a "mexixan or native american" is ABSURD... Why do you say that? Because there "supposedly" were alot of mexicans in the 1700-1800's here?

How do you know if white people were really here first and then indians forced or murdered them out of the area?

Surely the snakes, rabbits and crocodiles were on this continent first.

Whose to say indians did not steal the land from them first.

Wat do you think constitutes north america as belonging to a race? Ocean divides?

One could argue that scientists believe africans were the first humans....is this not their world then?

I welcome your feedback in this non FLAMING thread!!!!!!!!!!

[Awill3449]

(700 Arabic people caught crossing illegaly by Minute Men, 50 of which were al quaida)

Source or didnt happen. That is really, really hard to believe. 50 al-qaeda and the president didnt talk about it? We celebrate when one might get executed!

[xblackdogx]

to say that land belonged to a "mexixan or native american" is ABSURD... Why do you say that? Because there "supposedly" were alot of mexicans in the 1700-1800's here?

How do you know if white people were really here first and then indians forced or murdered them out of the area?

Surely the snakes, rabbits and crocodiles were on this continent first.

Whose to say indians did not steal the land from them first.


when did i say that?
but it is a fact that Native Americans did OCCUPY the land. And that is exactly how they thought of it [not thinking of it as being owned], hence why they didnt kill the travelers who came upon these shores.



Wat do you think constitutes north america as belonging to a race? Ocean divides?

One could argue that scientists believe africans were the first humans....is this not their world then?

I welcome your feedback in this non FLAMING thread!!!!!!!!!!

when did i say that North America is made up of a race? :confused:
what i did say is that the term AMERICANS is made up of many races, and to not include other races of American born is misleading when counting the true number of Americans and the immigrant minority

[grinthenbearit]

your dumb ass imigrated to so I wouldnt be talkin shit. If your ansestors wouldnt of came over a long time ago you wouldn't be livin here. All you guys did was steal land from us mexicans and the native americans.:cursing:

My last reply was in respose to the above members comment not to xblackdogx

Originally Posted by grinthenbearit
to say that land belonged to a "mexixan or native american" is ABSURD... Why do you say that? Because there "supposedly" were alot of mexicans in the 1700-1800's here?

How do you know if white people were really here first and then indians forced or murdered them out of the area?

Surely the snakes, rabbits and crocodiles were on this continent first.

Whose to say indians did not steal the land from them first.


when did i say that?
but it is a fact that Native Americans did OCCUPY the land. And that is exactly how they thought of it [not thinking of it as being owned], hence why they didnt kill the travelers who came upon these shores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinthenbearit

Wat do you think constitutes north america as belonging to a race? Ocean divides?

One could argue that scientists believe africans were the first humans....is this not their world then?

I welcome your feedback in this non FLAMING thread!!!!!!!!!!


when did i say that North America is made up of a race?
what i did say is that the term AMERICANS is made up of many races, and to not include other races of American born is misleading when counting the true number of Americans and the immigrant minority

[xblackdogx]

^LOL, i dont think i would ever know if someone was directing a post towards me if not being quoted or directly after

[grinthenbearit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by j0k3r
your dumb ass imigrated to so I wouldnt be talkin shit. If your ansestors wouldnt of came over a long time ago you wouldn't be livin here. All you guys did was steal land from us mexicans and the native americans.

jOk3r,

After all most geologists agree that all the continents were first joined together without oceans in between. On a world map most of the continents clearly look as if they would fit together on a puzzle. That suggests they were once together as one. Therefore if you follow the theory of evolution we all evolved from related ancient species of more primative creatures while we were on one huge continent. Some people just took on a different skin shade and a few other small differences

[Shelbay]

i quoted part of your quote, b/c that is what i was emphasizing, as i did w/ most that i have quoted.
[and condemn= dissaprove of]


and when did i lecture you on mastering a foreign language... read my post directed towards you and i have simply said it is WRONG to force a language upon someone from a different ethnic group. Thats like telling everyone in Egypt they MUST learn Arabic b/c it is there official language. Wake up to reality and you will see that Egypt is obviously not all Arabic and many speak English, so y are saying to do it in the United States.
Thats your definition of condemn...and never did I say disapprove either..as i said before..when you quote..put the entire quote..not "selective" parts that only mislead from the originals message in a persons post. ...and why is it so wrong to have illegals learn english? Now if I moved to Mexico it would be assumed I should learn the native language there correct? As in terms of safety and embracing the local customs? You meed to wake and realize that you view this in one way and I another...no need to tell me I am wrong for what I feel..and this is about illegal aliens..not Egypt. For you to condone illegal aliens and that they must not be forced to learn english...is very irresponsible if you truly believe they have a place in America...btw...how are the illegals in Canada? I only read,see and hear of America...whats the deal with Canada? Just curious....

[higher4hockey]

i've said it before and i'll say it again. FUCK EM

[xblackdogx]

Thats your definition of condemn...and never did I say disapprove either..as i said before..when you quote..put the entire quote..not "selective" parts that only mislead from the originals message in a persons post. ...and why is it so wrong to have illegals learn english? Now if I moved to Mexico it would be assumed I should learn the native language there correct? As in terms of safety and embracing the local customs? You meed to wake and realize that you view this in one way and I another...no need to tell me I am wrong for what I feel..and this is about illegal aliens..not Egypt. For you to condone illegal aliens and that they must not be forced to learn english...is very irresponsible if you truly believe they have a place in America...btw...how are the illegals in Canada? I only read,see and hear of America...whats the deal with Canada? Just curious....
boy, and i thought some ppl were hopeless. you never said directly that you dissaprove, but when you say you are ashamed of the parents thats exactly what that means... and i used your quote to EMPHASIZE that fact.
i am not saying you are wrong for how you feel, its just unrealistic. I proved that by mentioning Canada and Egypt. You were specifically talking about LANGUAGE, and forcing people to learn the language. Whether it be illegal immigrants or legal immigrants it is beside the point that you were trying to make which is: They NEED to learn English. As i mentioned, this is an absurd idea, and also unrealistic, which i supported by saying how Canada has two languages and Egypt has numerous. The main point there (which i THOUGHT you would figure out) was that the GOVERNMENT needs to adjust to the person coming in. NOT the opposite way way around. Whether that be unfair is besides the point as it has been going on for hundreds of year prior to this day.

[bubbles603]

I think most voters are not really concerned with who is working landscaping, restaurants etc. It is the rising cost of healthcare and education for illegals and their children. If it was up to me they would not get within a 100 miles of any school system I am paying for. Try enrolling your kid in a French, Swiss or even Mexican school without proper documentation. We are the only nation in the free world that gives citizenship to the children of illegals.
Ask any hospital along the border and they'll tell you the odds of EVER getting paid by an illegal.
I have no problem with people wanting a better life and thousands of people come across the border legally every year that are happy to work these type of jobs too. But as long as we have to spend millions to provide bi-lingual services to foreign nationals the only ones who really suffer are actual taxpayers. My husband and I spent over 80k on medical bills last year out of pocke. We were told that had we been uninsured or illegal the hospital would have written the debt off. Most voters are not predjudiced just broke and sick of paying out of their paychecks weekly for a bunch of people that do not even have the good graces to play by the rules or pay taxes.

[Shelbay]

boy, and i thought some ppl were hopeless. you never said directly that you dissaprove, but when you say you are ashamed of the parents thats exactly what that means... and i used your quote to EMPHASIZE that fact.
i am not saying you are wrong for how you feel, its just unrealistic. I proved that by mentioning Canada and Egypt. You were specifically talking about LANGUAGE, and forcing people to learn the language. Whether it be illegal immigrants or legal immigrants it is beside the point that you were trying to make which is: They NEED to learn English. As i mentioned, this is an absurd idea, and also unrealistic, which i supported by saying how Canada has two languages and Egypt has numerous. The main point there (which i THOUGHT you would figure out) was that the GOVERNMENT needs to adjust to the person coming in. NOT the opposite way way around. Whether that be unfair is besides the point as it has been going on for hundreds of year prior to this day.
Why don't you see that the way you feel is unrealistic? ...and I don't need a poser like you attempting to explain what my own posts meant to say okay? I am sure you know exactly what my post meant...and wow..out of all these great posts on this thread you want to debate mine? yay...do it right and stop trying to mislead and confuse from my original post (once again)...and why should they not learn english? Yes it is a shameful fact that the illegal parents are having to have their legal kids they have here in America read to them...about medicine...very sad and shameful do you think not? Considering that you are not American and in previous posts of yours you state that Americans are just stupid..I think you need to shut up now and let AMERICANS deal with this..okay..:thumbsup: And to be fair...they are not playing fair...I don't think any of the ones I have met and interacted with had any kind of immunization either..very unsafe for this Country.

[xblackdogx]

Why don't you see that the way you feel is unrealistic? ...and I don't need a poser like you attempting to explain what my own posts meant to say okay? I am sure you know exactly what my post meant...and wow..out of all these great posts on this thread you want to debate mine? yay...do it right and stop trying to mislead and confuse from my original post (once again)...and why should they not learn english? Yes it is a shameful fact that the illegal parents are having to have their legal kids they have here in America read to them...about medicine...very sad and shameful do you think not? Considering that you are not American and in previous posts of yours you state that Americans are just stupid..I think you need to shut up now and let AMERICANS deal with this..okay..:thumbsup: And to be fair...they are not playing fair...I don't think any of the ones I have met and interacted with had any kind of immunization either..very unsafe for this Country.
When you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME, this statement is true by your assumptions:
1. i am American [born and raised]
2. i did state "dumbass Americans like you" to a specific person, saying that his mentality is shared upon others and i would classify Americans like that the way i described above (to someone so condemning of not reading posts correctly, a stupid mistake by you)
3. you arent the only special one (cry if you want :( ), i responded to numerous ppl in this thread, but don't expect me to waste time on those with one liners... you obviously have a thoughtout opinion of this subject of MY thread, am i not allowed to debate it?
4. please explain how my view is unrealistic, when i backed it with facts along with history (which is what we base our policies on), while you continue to degrade it and post no actual counterpoints to any of my specific sentences.
later ;)

[grinthenbearit]

ooooh another FLAME war!!!!!

[xblackdogx]

ooooh another FLAME war!!!!!
actually, no

[Shelbay]

When you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME, this statement is true by your assumptions:
1. i am American [born and raised]
2. i did state "dumbass Americans like you" to a specific person, saying that his mentality is shared upon others and i would classify Americans like that the way i described above (to someone so condemning of not reading posts correctly, a stupid mistake by you)
3. you arent the only special one (cry if you want :( ), i responded to numerous ppl in this thread, but don't expect me to waste time on those with one liners... you obviously have a thoughtout opinion of this subject of MY thread, am i not allowed to debate it?
4. please explain how my view is unrealistic, when i backed it with facts along with history (which is what we base our policies on), while you continue to degrade it and post no actual counterpoints to any of my specific sentences.
later ;)
How do you expect to debate when you don't get the FACT that opinions,viewpoints etc...are neither right or wrong..when you blasted my original post by telling me I am wrong for my viewpoint (that I still stand by) then you have to assume you'll get that same mentality right back..and IF you are an American..show some pride and stop saying we are all stupid americans because of differing opinions. Illegal aliens have the right to march and protest what they deem a threat to their freedom..oh please..they need to start paying taxes...put some of their earnings back into the country they chose to enter illegally..be immunized..have documentation..(lets not forget what Castro did) and be required to speak english. This is america...we speak english as our primary language...why should we have to change our language for the hispanic culture..once again...this is America..not Mexico. Why would you say I am not the only special one..is that how you view me? Special? If you don't like my posts on YOUR thread..I am sure it being YOUR thread you know what to do where I can't post on YOUR thread anymore...if you want to debate..do it without the insinuations that differing opinions are wrong or unrealistic..its not nice being told how you feel is wrong is it? Now..once again..it is shameful that two adults have to be told how to give medication by their young son...not only is it shameful but it is also dangerous..this couple had 3 children..one on the way very soon it looked like..and they can't read intructions on a medicine bottle?! Which was just one example of where miscommunication can affect more than one person..how can you honestly condone them not learning english? What really irritated me about you is saying..if I don't like it move?? I don't think so..and that mentality makes no sense coming from an American supposedly born and raised in the good old U.S.A. if they don't like it here..take their butts back where THEY come from is my viewpoint on that.

[xblackdogx]

How do you expect to debate when you don't get the FACT that opinions,viewpoints etc...are neither right or wrong..when you blasted my original post by telling me I am wrong for my viewpoint (that I still stand by) then you have to assume you'll get that same mentality right back..and IF you are an American..show some pride and stop saying we are all stupid americans because of differing opinions. Illegal aliens have the right to march and protest what they deem a threat to their freedom..oh please..they need to start paying taxes...put some of their earnings back into the country they chose to enter illegally..be immunized..have documentation..(lets not forget what Castro did) and be required to speak english. This is america...we speak english as our primary language...why should we have to change our language for the hispanic culture..once again...this is America..not Mexico. Why would you say I am not the only special one..is that how you view me? Special? If you don't like my posts on YOUR thread..I am sure it being YOUR thread you know what to do where I can't post on YOUR thread anymore...if you want to debate..do it without the insinuations that differing opinions are wrong or unrealistic..its not nice being told how you feel is wrong is it? Now..once again..it is shameful that two adults have to be told how to give medication by their young son...not only is it shameful but it is also dangerous..this couple had 3 children..one on the way very soon it looked like..and they can't read intructions on a medicine bottle?! Which was just one example of where miscommunication can affect more than one person..how can you honestly condone them not learning english? What really irritated me about you is saying..if I don't like it move?? I don't think so..and that mentality makes no sense coming from an American supposedly born and raised in the good old U.S.A. if they don't like it here..take their butts back where THEY come from is my viewpoint on that.
1. when did tell you that you were wrong for a viewpoint? please re-read my first post directed towards you
2. how do you continue to misuse what i said about the dumb Americans? twisting around words on your part, much like Republicans.
3. and it was MY OPINION that "you should move" b/c i think it is an unrealistic expectation of making immigrants learn English. and i stand by what i said before that i do agree that they should learn it, but to FORCE it is unfair.
4. if you took enough time to check my previous posts, why don't you find where i claim i'm from (couple of weeks ago) if you don't believe me
5. and the word "special" was used sarcastically. essentially being derived from you saying your post is the only one i am contending when that is indeed untrue

[grinthenbearit]

consider this, illegal aliens are convicted criminals from south of the U.S. border.

They can't get a job worth $5/hour so they risk their lives by breaking more laws to come up to the USA.

The US doesn't need lawless tax dodging aliens......especially with all the deficit and terrorist problems we already have from other third world countries.

government won't even maintain proper sewers..is this a cultural thing??? im confused

I know mexico is only a 3rd or 2nd world country but come on....Everytime I've been to mexico the streets reeked of human waste....


what then when mexicans are no longer the USA minority and are in public office?

I know I wont stick around for that.....no way...canada europe...make way for me

smell ya later
Instead of the riot, walk outs bulls*itting on the web why don't they just make the area a better place to live?

[xblackdogx]

consider this, illegal aliens are convicted criminals from south of the U.S. border.

They can't get a job worth $5/hour so they risk their lives by breaking more laws to come up to the USA.

The US doesn't need lawless tax dodging aliens......especially with all the deficit and terrorist problems we already have from other third world countries.

I know mexico is only a 3rd or 2nd world country but come on....Everytime I've been to mexico the streets reeked of human waste....


what then when mexicans are no longer the USA minority and are in public office?

I know I wont stick around for that.....no way...canada europe...make way for me

smell ya later
Instead of the riot, walk outs bulls*itting on the web why don't they just make the area a better place to live?
how are they convicted criminals... the law they break by coming across the border is a misdeameanor:thumbsup:

"Immigrants contribute 7 billion in social security per year. they earn 240 billion, report 90 billion, and only are reimbursed 5 billion, "where are the 85 billion?" They also contribute to the U.S. economy 25 billion more than they receive in healthcare, etc., etc., etc."
they aren't as tax dodging as many may think

[Shelbay]

1. when did tell you that you were wrong for a viewpoint? please re-read my first post directed towards you
2. how do you continue to misuse what i said about the dumb Americans? twisting around words on your part, much like Republicans.
3. and it was MY OPINION that "you should move" b/c i think it is an unrealistic expectation of making immigrants learn English. and i stand by what i said before that i do agree that they should learn it, but to FORCE it is unfair.
4. if you took enough time to check my previous posts, why don't you find where i claim i'm from (couple of weeks ago) if you don't believe me
5. and the word "special" was used sarcastically. essentially being derived from you saying your post is the only one i am contending when that is indeed untrue
I think your the one that needs to read YOUR thread again..and your own posts. Also why make a civil debate into a dem/rep issue? Not sure which label i should be given on that one considering politics is not my forte...I of course have my opinion on certain issues..but I am not really that up on republican or democrat...I live by what I feel is right..not what the Government tells me no matter which party is in power at any given time....and they should be FORCED to learn english..how else can they contribute in a positive,legal manner without the basic skill of reading what doseage of medicine to give their own children? Looks like they are determined to FORCE their ways on true Americans and the legals here than just doing what they need to do in the first place....your good at asking the same questions and misleading with opinions that you call facts when in truth are not facts but a one sided view from you...and once again...they need to master the basics of english language..what is the problem with them learning? And if they refuse..then FORCE them back where they come from....they forced their way in this country so you shouldn't be offended when I say they should be required to learn english...this is the U.S.A....not Mexico..english is OUR primary language..learn it..know it...live it!:thumbsup:

[xblackdogx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_official_languages
look through the list and see how many countries have 2-20+ OFFICIAL languages. i'm not even saying spanish should be an official language, all i am saying is that the US shouldn't force it.
and that is the only real reply i will give you... i concluded that you are dillusional or young

[Psycho4Bud]

they need to master the basics of english language..what is the problem with them learning? And if they refuse..then FORCE them back where they come from....they forced their way in this country so you shouldn't be offended when I say they should be required to learn english...this is the U.S.A....not Mexico..english is OUR primary language..learn it..know it...live it!:thumbsup:

Hell yes!!!

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[Shelbay]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_official_languages
look through the list and see how many countries have 2-20+ OFFICIAL languages. i'm not even saying spanish should be an official language, all i am saying is that the US shouldn't force it.
and that is the only real reply i will give you... i concluded that you are dillusional or young
I don't have to look through your list..I live right here where everyday life experiences show what is needed..they need to learn english! And I still say english should be required to pass citizenship here...heck..even terrorists are smart enough to learn the fundamentals..and they hate us..so if you love your new country..embrace its language and diverse cultures....don't expect me to live like I am in your country instead of vice versa...and I made my conclusion on you a few threads ago when you posted about stupid Americans..its tiresome seeing that these days..have some pride. Do you speak spanish? If not..learn it! Might shock you to know what is really being said to you..haha..really disappointed with your conclusion though...you were presenting your viewpoint very well..

[grinthenbearit]

how are they convicted criminals... the law they break by coming across the border is a misdeameanor:thumbsup:

"Immigrants contribute 7 billion in social security per year. they earn 240 billion, report 90 billion, and only are reimbursed 5 billion, "where are the 85 billion?" They also contribute to the U.S. economy 25 billion more than they receive in healthcare, etc., etc., etc."
they aren't as tax dodging as many may think


as per dictionary.com
4 entries found for convict.
con·vict ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-vkt)
v. con·vict·ed, con·vict·ing, con·victs
v. tr.

1. Law. To find or prove (someone) guilty of an offense or crime, especially by the verdict of a court: The jury convicted the defendant of manslaughter.
2. To show or declare to be blameworthy; condemn: His remarks convicted him of a lack of sensitivity.
3. To make aware of one's sinfulness or guilt.


v. intr.

To return a verdict of guilty in a court: â??We need jurors... who will not convict merely because they are suspiciousâ?� (Scott Turow).


n. Law (knvkt)

1. A person found or declared guilty of an offense or crime.
2. A person serving a sentence of imprisonment.


adj. Archaic

Found guilty; convicted.

ba ba bull sh...................
Nowhere does it say a conviction has to be a felony

I wanna go to canada where they actually have a budget excess, as opposed to the USA deficit caused largely by the huge majority of illegal aliens impose on the USA by leeching free medical care and not paying income taxes let alone contributing to health plan costs.

phewwey!!!!!!!!!!!!

why can't mexico give free health coverage????

I figure it is to their benefit to just drop the bill on the USA deficit!
smell ya l8tr!

[rhino44]

mexico is really shitting all over us

[grinthenbearit]

I don't understand the smell of cities south of the USA border. Why does it always reek.....is it a cultual thing .....going potty in gutter?

If you know why it stinks so bad down there please explain?

[xblackdogx]

shelbay- just one more thing b/c you make it seem like i hate Americans

what you are saying about me "hating" my own people is taken out of context.
2. i also am fluent in spanish, you just bring irrelevant stuff in and it doesnt apply :)... like you did with saying im not American

[xblackdogx]

as per dictionary.com
4 entries found for convict.
con·vict ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-vkt)
v. con·vict·ed, con·vict·ing, con·victs
v. tr.

1. Law. To find or prove (someone) guilty of an offense or crime, especially by the verdict of a court: The jury convicted the defendant of manslaughter.
2. To show or declare to be blameworthy; condemn: His remarks convicted him of a lack of sensitivity.
3. To make aware of one's sinfulness or guilt.


v. intr.

To return a verdict of guilty in a court: â??We need jurors... who will not convict merely because they are suspiciousâ?� (Scott Turow).


n. Law (knvkt)

1. A person found or declared guilty of an offense or crime.
2. A person serving a sentence of imprisonment.


adj. Archaic

Found guilty; convicted.

ba ba bull sh...................
Nowhere does it say a conviction has to be a felony

I wanna go to canada where they actually have a budget excess, as opposed to the USA deficit caused largely by the huge majority of illegal aliens impose on the USA by leeching free medical care and not paying income taxes let alone contributing to health plan costs.

phewwey!!!!!!!!!!!!

why can't mexico give free health coverage????

I figure it is to their benefit to just drop the bill on the USA deficit!
smell ya l8tr!

convicted implies that their was a trial...
you can use criminal [as an adjective] for the law they are breaking, but that would be like saying your a criminal for speeding [misdemeanor].
kind of silly don't you think?
:dance:

[Ap0c4lyPtIcF4t3]

I think that the laws shouldnt stay the same but i am not for completely opposing illegal immigration. If youve even seen pictures of REAL mexico you know why they are here. Mexico is a living shithole that you couldnt blame someone for wanting to leave and come here, illegal or not. I highly doubt it will pass but i havent been following up on it. If it does well there are going to be alot of pissed of mexicans, sounds like it might cause more trouble than its worth. Im not sure what the requirements are for citizenship here but im sure it isnt anything too outstanding. Anyone know what they are? I think that if they want to stay they should become a real citizen, otherwise GTFO:)

[Shelbay]

xdog..If your American...some of your posts are contradictory to that..you might be..but your word terminology says different..among other things. Since you seem familiar with the hispanic cause...why is it that they come here illegally..protest while waving Mexicos Flag...but did not rally like this in Mexico for their "rights"? Just curious..you do have an opinion on that?

[xblackdogx]

xdog..If your American...some of your posts are contradictory to that..you might be..but your word terminology says different..among other things. Since you seem familiar with the hispanic cause...why is it that they come here illegally..protest while waving Mexicos Flag...but did not rally like this in Mexico for their "rights"? Just curious..you do have an opinion on that?
seriously can you find what posts are contradictory to me being American?

i do think that more should be done, like they should have protested in their native land, but i think it needs to be done here in America also [by Americans im saying, b/c we are in a terrible situation b/c of our gov't too].

The reason they feel like they should do it here is b/c our government and principles are very closely related to our founding ideology, which are basic rights for all, and now that they have been here and working here for the gov't to simply classify them as felons is unfair.

[Fengzi]

what about all the people trying to get here the right way? Illeagles are making it harder and harder every day. Find someone who has or is trying to come over the right way. I don't care if they're mexican or not, they're pissed off at the illegals. It can takes years anymore to get to live here, but pedro can jump a fence and work just about anywhere. It's just not fair. I don't care one way or the other as to where your from. Our country is made up of people who wanted a way of of a crappy life. I'm happy for anyone who gets to come over, but don't screw other honest people out of a chance to get a decent job.


I agree with benagain here because I have experience in this area. No, not me, I was born and raised here. But my wife is from China. I lived in China for a while and we met and were married there. When we decided to move back to the U.S. we did it the right, legal, way and I can tell you it was an absolute nightmare. We were forced to spend 6 months apart, on two occaisions, and treated like animals by the INS. Everybody thinks that being married to an American is an instant ticket in but that just isn't the case. It may be a bit faster but that's a relative term when dealing with the U.S. Gov't. So yeah, we do get pretty pissed off at people who come here illegally and want a free ride.

That being said, xblackdogx is right. Illegals do a lot of the shit jobs that nobody else wants to do and they do them for less than anyone here, native or legal immigrant, would do it for. If we were to suddenly get rid of all illegals the effect on our economy would be devastating. Two main reasons:

1. As has already been pointed out, if you sudennly incresae the wages of workers in a given industry, the prices of the goods produced by those industries will have a corresponing increase. This is a no brainer. Say, for example, a farmer pays illegals $2 and hr to pick strawberries and he sells those strawberries for $2.50 lb. If he has to start paying someone $6 an hr he'll no longer be able to sell them for $2.50 a lb. Obviously nything produced by the agricultural industries would face a massive blow as would all other services produced by "unskilled labor" .

2. Second would be the effect on inflation. This is something that most people don't even consider but, in all reality, has much more severe consequences. As somebody else already pointed out, illegals send billions back to Mexico every year. Now, imagine we have no illegals and the money stays in our economy. That's billions more $'s floating around. Combine that with the fact that higher wages are being paid to "legals" and you now have tens of billions more floating aound the economy. The most basic economic law is that prices are based on supply and demand. More money in the economy means more demand so the prices go up. Now, even products that previously were not touched by illegals see their prices soaring. To combat this the Fed would increase interest rates. etc. etc. Bad news any way you look at it.

What is needed is some kind of migrant worker program. Let the workers come in legally, for a specified, and definitely temporary, period of time. Do not grant them all the rights of U.S.. citizens. Tax them at a drastically lowered rate (this would help employers as well since they also pay taxes fr their workers) and set a lower minimum wage for them. It can't be done without some impact to our economy but certainly the impact can be minimilized.

[Shelbay]

I think the economy would improve after the initial fallout..I don't agree that hispanics do "jobs others won't do"..its just that when the big money hires illegal aliens at the cheaper wages they are not only hurting legal Americans but also preventing the illegals they hire any rights to higher wages..it keeps them docile,no education (learning english at the least) and for darn sure they will work Sundays,Holidays and not even be able to report work violations..so it hurts ALL workers....make them legal and let them be proud to be here...and I still say they need to be taught english..after all..ignorance is greatly appreciated by big business..yes it really bothers me when I have to resort to their language to explain important information and I consistently tell them this too...not just this board. Oh...and I noticed a huge difference in Alabamas illegals and Californias and texas....the ones here (3,000-4,000) wave the American flag proud..not Mexicos...that means alot to them and "us".

[Shelbay]

seriously can you find what posts are contradictory to me being American?

i do think that more should be done, like they should have protested in their native land, but i think it needs to be done here in America also [by Americans im saying, b/c we are in a terrible situation b/c of our gov't too].

The reason they feel like they should do it here is b/c our government and principles are very closely related to our founding ideology, which are basic rights for all, and now that they have been here and working here for the gov't to simply classify them as felons is unfair.
To come to America illegally is what is unfair....

[Fengzi]

I think the economy would improve after the initial fallout.. Probably but it would take years, possibly decades, for things to balance themselves out. And, it would get a lot worse before it got better. This isn't based on some theroy, it's based on economic pricinples. Principles which are about as reliable as 2+2=4.


I don't agree that hispanics do "jobs others won't do"... By "job" I mean the whole picture. Picking strawberries for $2 and hr is an entirely different job from picking strawberries for $10 an hr.


its just that when the big money hires illegal aliens at the cheaper wages they are not only hurting legal Americans but also preventing the illegals they hire any rights to higher wages..it keeps them docile,no education (learning english at the least) and for darn sure they will work Sundays,Holidays and not even be able to report work violations..so it hurts ALL workers... Agreed, but sadly it has become the norm and is completeky ingrained into the system. Any drastic change in the staus quo will have serious short and mid-term consequences.


make them legal and let them be proud to be here...and I still say they need to be taught english..after all..ignorance is greatly appreciated by big business..yes it really bothers me when I have to resort to their language to explain important information and I consistently tell them this too...not just this board. I definitely agree here, especially on the learning English part. When I lived in China I had to speak Chinese. Period! Almost nobody over there speaks English and if I wanted to use a particular servive I didn't have a choice of languages. If I could do it so can anyone coming here.

It's not just illegals though. I am amazed at how many legal, even highly educated, immigrants here can't, or can barely, speak English. This is one of my wife's biggest pet peeves. Despite the fact that she didn't step foot into this country until she was 27, she speaks English, with no accent, at a level that is considerably better than most native speakers. Ok, she is a highly educated linguist so she does have a bit of an advantage but still.... She becomes absolutely infuriated when she has to speak in Chinese to, or translate for, the other educated software engineers she works with. Even I have had many instances where it has been easier for me to communicate in Chinese, instead of English, with other professional here in the Silicon Valley. It's simply ridiculous.




Oh...and I noticed a huge difference in Alabamas illegals and Californias and texas....the ones here (3,000-4,000) wave the American flag proud..not Mexicos...that means alot to them and "us". I don't doubt it. It's all in the numbers. California is something like 30% or more Hispanic. Alabama is less than 2%. There's definietly going to be more of a sense of Hispanic community here. Plus, if I was a member of a <2% minority in an area where good 'ol boys in white robes still roamed I would't make much of a fuss either.;)

[Shelbay]

The good old boys here don't wear white robes...they wear uniforms for the majority..also..if you come to Alabama you would see that the KKK no longer is here,not that we know of anyway..and if they are..I doubt very seriously they would announce it considering that Alabama is very diverse in heritage..take a look at Birmingham,Montgomery,Selma,Mobile...and there is your power in this State..and its NOT the white heritage.:thumbsup: And the Hispanics here are no where in #'s with CA and TX but the ones that are here show American pride..not another country that many illegals claim oppressed them(as in Mexico):) They show respect toward others and we may be a minority but our community continues to move forward..together..we really do...and telling the illegals that its okay to continue working as they are just because they are illegal is not a good thing..but there are ways to change things without abusing others rights...they need to march on Washington considering that immigration is fixable but it will never happen because the Government (you know the real power..) and big money like to use immigrants as a platform but really have no intention of "fixing" it...so the truth should be taught and applied so that more than marching can be done to make them legal....and that is going to be impossible when they don't even speak the same language as the big boys..and those are in Washington..not the South!:thumbsup:

[Shelbay]

Sorry about the double post..but I didn't edit in time. I wanted to add that I appreciate you sharing about your wifes frustrations in translating sometimes...that is why I originally posted on this thread...and when I said forced to learn it..some of them are "set in their ways" and have had younger members of the family have to do the teaching..they force them to listen and respond in english. Important information can be lost in translation..sort of like playing the "gossip" game..you take like ten people,sit them in chairs,whisper something in the first ones ear...they repeat in to the next one..and by the time it gets repeated at the end of the line..its nothing like what was originally said.

[grinthenbearit]

any of the clauses in the definition for a convict apply.....

illegal aliens.....
1. don't pay income tax
2. don't pay medicare
3. don't pay medical insurance
4. use tax funded roads, sidewalks, fire departments ect ect ect ect ect
5. use free medical care at free clinics at tax PAYER expense


1+2+3+4+5 = illegal aliens are a drain on the standard of living of legal residents living in the USA, becuse less tax money can go to pay gov't employees and also existing legal residents must be overtaxed to compensate

Not to mention our evergrowing deficit cannot possibly be getting much help from aliens either

[benagain]

This is a long thread with a lot of fighting. That's what I think.

[Shelbay]

I think its a good thread..at least no one has used the c word...

[DazedNblazed]

well i wouldnt care if they were coming over here and staying here as citizens, but instead there getting jobs here making money and taking it back to mexico and living like kings......so stop fucking america in the ass mexico.

[friendowl]

im a chicano and i can understand both sides

one thing i really agree with is that whoever is here no matter from where you came please please learn english.

i speak spanish but sometimes when im sober i pretend to only speak english
the people who only speak spanish get pissed off like its your fault you cant understand.if i went to mexico and tried toget by in english i would be taken advantage of.

i cant wait to see what happens with this.

[Fengzi]

any of the clauses in the definition for a convict apply.....

illegal aliens.....
1. don't pay income tax
2. don't pay medicare
3. don't pay medical insurance
4. use tax funded roads, sidewalks, fire departments ect ect ect ect ect
5. use free medical care at free clinics at tax PAYER expense


1+2+3+4+5 = illegal aliens are a drain on the standard of living of legal residents living in the USA, becuse less tax money can go to pay gov't employees and also existing legal residents must be overtaxed to compensate

Not to mention our evergrowing deficit cannot possibly be getting much help from aliens either

Actually the definition of a convict is "one who has been convicted". So until a person has been caught for a crime, tried, and found guilty they can not be a convict. Therefore only a small percentage of illegals could be considerd a convict.

[grinthenbearit]

Actually the definition of a convict is "one who has been convicted". So until a person has been caught for a crime, tried, and found guilty they can not be a convict. Therefore only a small percentage of illegals could be considerd a convict.


2. To show or declare to be blameworthy; condemn: His remarks convicted him of a lack of sensitivity.

No green card, no US I.D. or cannot even prove any other way to be a legal resident equals open and shut case to anybody with an intellect "worth a bowl of beans".

[Shelbay]

Do you not think though that with the good comes the bad? That is also something I stay curious about..how many were convicted of violent crimes in Mexico and then "sent" here? Not trying to argue but haven't seen much on that subject....just the results after one of them get in trouble here.

[Psycho4Bud]

Do you not think though that with the good comes the bad? That is also something I stay curious about..how many were convicted of violent crimes in Mexico and then "sent" here? Not trying to argue but haven't seen much on that subject....just the results after one of them get in trouble here.

That happened with Cuba...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9B0DE6DF1331F930A15752C1A961948260

[Fengzi]

Yep, the Mariel boatlift. I was living in Florida at the time and can remeber this was a huge deal down there.

Wasn't Scarface supposed to be one of the Mariel baot people??

I wouldn't doubt there are cases of this happening but I would think it would be a small percentage of those coming across. There's a Home Depot near where I work and I drive by a bunch of these guys (assumed illegals) every day. Yes, they may be here illegally but they are some of the hardest working people you will ever see. Apart from the fact that they entered illegally I would doubt any have committed any other crime in their life.

[Shelbay]

Of course they work hard..and of course the majority is cash and being sent back to Mexico..and the majority I have spoken with (not assumed but very illegal) only come here to work and support others back home. There are many more illegals than legal? Not really sure on that..just speaking from experience of my interaction with them..which by the way is mainly battered women that are here illegally with american born children and feel they have to stay where they are just because they are illegal...so no I don't see this from just one "view"..I just think they should be able to become true Americans because no matter how it is prettied up...they came here breaking the law..and it will continue to hold them back from greater things than just picking fruit or putting a roof on a house..which I mean no disrespect toward manual labor..but there are others just like any heritage that have gifted people that their gifts are being wasted because of one thing..they are illegal..and speak barely comprehensible english. The big "debate" here today was that poor uneducated black men are losing out because they say they are forced to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs...I do look forward to your posts on this now..oh..and yes scarface was based on that immigration..wasn't sure so I just had to look it up.

[friendowl]

uneducated black men have to much pride to get dirty and work hard all day every day.

it seems that they would rather slang dope,pimp ho's or just hook up with
a fat ugly girl that will take care of her nigga

[rhino44]

lmao

[xblackdogx]

lmao

friendowl, always hitting the nail on the head in some cases.

[beachguy in thongs]

uneducated black men have to much pride to get dirty and work hard all day every day.

it seems that they would rather slang dope,pimp ho's or just hook up with
a fat ugly girl that will take care of her nigga
All the uneducated black men, I know, are working pretty hard, and I don't know how much education it takes to become a police officer, I know you don't need a college degree.

An educated black man is my herbal connection.

[Ap0c4lyPtIcF4t3]

Im watching these mexicans march right now, they are taking up 22 city blocks



Honestly I dont see the point of a protest like this, anyone think it honestly makes a difference in the final descisions?

[xblackdogx]

yes, i do. does it not mean anything that these are the biggest protests in HISTORY in some of the cities the the movement is reaching.

lets say that many people fled to the streets about the lies of 9/11... it would affect some decisions.

[Ganj]

Here's my two cents:

America volunteers it's citizens to reach third-world countries i.e. improve education and living standards, build homes, create jobs. But when the third-world citizens want to come to American soil, it isn't okay. Open up the borders! America shouldn't operate off irony alone.

[xblackdogx]

Here's my two cents:

America volunteers it's citizens to reach third-world countries i.e. improve education and living standards, build homes, create jobs. But when the third-world citizens want to come to American soil, it isn't okay. Open up the borders! America shouldn't operate off irony alone.
excellent point!

[Jeff Spicoli]

you should of been chucking shit out of your window at them

[Ap0c4lyPtIcF4t3]

you should of been chucking shit out of your window at them

LOL, me and my roommate threw a few water balloons down but then decided we didnt need the massive wave of mexicans trying to get into our building or the police attention
:dance: :dance:

[haze kr]

illegal immigrants cost each american $1200 a year in taxes (english as a second language, ESL class)... they sued Arizona for $21 million. they cost Colorado around $1 billion a year. they are rioting in California about Revolution being the solution.

i'm not against them but, they should get at least minimum wage. if we paid them minimum wage, then there would be no real reason to hire them over other people. they should come here legally (but the unskilled ones can't). and we need to tighten the border up (700 Arabic people caught crossing illegaly by Minute Men, 50 of which were al quaida)

basically:
-pay over minimum wage
-cross legally
-stop rioting
-stop suing us, i think they were bitching about no Mexican history in school
-get the national guard on border (not much weed from Mexico anyways)
-ESL doesn't matter, we'll be speakin spanish in 10 or 11 years

PS: it's predicted that in 2016 America will be 52% hispanic and in 2020 there will be a hispanic president
is that true ...about the minute men catching al queda members??!?!?!