Praying for the sick makes them feel even worse

[Euphoric]

PRAYING for hospital patients can make their illnesses worse and lead to significant post-operative complications, new research has found.

The biggest study into the relationship between prayer and healing found that, on the whole, prayers offered by strangers had no effect on patients' recovery.

But heart surgery patients who knew people were praying for them ended up with a higher rate of post-operative complications, such as abnormal heart rhythms. Researchers suggested this was perhaps due to the anxiety of knowing others were praying for their recovery.

In the past decade, scientists have carried out at least ten studies into the effects of prayer, and some have shown that "intercessory prayer" - prayer by strangers - can accelerate healing in patients.

The new study, involving more than 1,800 patients over ten years and costing about £1.5 million, was intended to overcome flaws in the earlier investigations and end years of speculation in both the medical and religious communities.

In the study, three Christian groups prayed for patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two weeks. Volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients - they were given only the first name and first initial of the surname.

The patients were broken into three groups. Two were prayed for; the third was not. Half the patients who received the prayers were told they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers. The results showed prayer had no effect on complication-free recovery. But 59 per cent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, compared with 52 per cent of those who were told it was only a possibility.

Researchers found the most common complication among those patients was atrial fibrillation, an irregular heartbeat that can be affected by anxiety. They speculated that knowing about the prayers made many patients nervous. "It may have made them uncertain, wondering, am I so sick they had to call in their prayer team?" Dr Charles Bethea, a cardiologist and the study's co-author, said.

source (http://news.scotsman.com/health.cfm?id=515352006)

[mont974x4]

Interesting, my personal experience shows that prayer works.

[Oneironaut]

Not mine. I have had several relatives pass away from diseases even though my family (including my grandmother who is a minister) prayed for them every day. This includes a cousin who died of cancer before she could graduate high school. I guess they just weren't praying hard enough. :rolleyes:

Of course prayer doesn't work. That's why we invented modern medicine.

[mont974x4]

How about instead of praying for healing, try praying for God's will to be done.

[JunkYard]

It's obviously Gods will for everyone to die, otherwise we'd all live forever...

It's mankinds that strives to keep us living longer,

[Oneironaut]

How about instead of praying for healing, try praying for God's will to be done.
Uhh, then how can you tell that the prayer did anything? If there is a god, then no matter what happens it's his will. That's like praying for gravity to continue working.

[MoonStarer420]

Ha now that is somthing I can see. Not because it's "against" faith but because it was a controlled experiment. I've heard of another study by praying for seeds to grow (http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm) but they don't state any sources or data what-so-ever, so it could be bullshit. Oh and not to mention their sample size was tiny.

"They speculated that knowing about the prayers made many patients nervous. "It may have made them uncertain, wondering, am I so sick they had to call in their prayer team?" Dr Charles Bethea, a cardiologist and the study's co-author, said."
I would of thought that it would have had some sort of placebo effect. I guess ignorance is truly bliss.

[mont974x4]

There was similar study that said that people who pray and attend church live longer. They also do better when serious illness or surgery occurs. I would think the diference has to do with one study has unknown people praying for other unknown people while the other involves people more directly.

I don't remember who did the study but it was on FoxNews a couple of days ago.

[Oneironaut]

There was similar study that said that people who pray and attend church live longer. They also do better when serious illness or surgery occurs.
But is this due to the invisible hand of God, or just the fact that churchgoers have a group of people willing to support them and help them through tough times?

[cjh3387]

I do not understand people who can not realize their has to be a god or some great being out there. How else did we get here. Some people might say evolution and science and all that bullshit. But where did that come from?Space cannot just be there. It had to be created.

[beachguy in thongs]

It's obviously Gods will for everyone to die, otherwise we'd all live forever...


What, you think creating life isn't enough?

Obviously, it's God's plan for everyone to live forever. We're working our way up to it. How long do you think those one-celled organisms, that He first created, lived? Your life may not be God's plan, but Life may be.

[Imotep]

i believe in the power of positive thinking.

but i reckon god's big on having people die long suffering early deaths to teach us the sanctity of life.
his will be done-and it is an organic fractaloid that grows daily and is ultimateley predictable.

so thats where psychic power comes from, the psycadelic evolution into a mental super computer that can interpret the logarithm of the momentary chance and outcomes.

you know im right.:)

[JunkYard]

What, you think creating life isn't enough?

Obviously, it's God's plan for everyone to live forever. We're working our way up to it. How long do you think those one-celled organisms, that He first created, lived? Your life may not be God's plan, but Life may be.

I see absolutely no evidence suggesting that we are meant to live forever. I find the concept of eternal life laughable. Although, it is equally obvious that we were meant to 'live', if not for just a moment in time...

We live! We die! It is just the natural order of things,

Life and death are the ways of the universe. Although, I'm still uncertain as to what happens after death.

[Fishmon]

I think praying for others works if there is an emotional connection to the person being prayed for. That study had people with no such connection praying. What
good is that. I believe you must really feel what you are seeking in prayer.

[PureEvil760]

They probably believe it didnt work like in 2 hours then they feel worse mentaly hence they get worse..funny in my opinion

[poorprincess]

I do not understand people who can not realize their has to be a god or some great being out there. How else did we get here. Some people might say evolution and science and all that bullshit. But where did that come from?Space cannot just be there. It had to be created.

Why?

[Oneironaut]

I do not understand people who can not realize their has to be a god or some great being out there. How else did we get here. Some people might say evolution and science and all that bullshit. But where did that come from?Space cannot just be there. It had to be created.
I could just as easily say that God cannot "just be there". Why would he not have to be created by something? How did he just pop into existence? Think about it.

Intelligence is the most complex thing we know of. Evolution is, as far as we can tell, a plausible explanation for how such a thing might have arisen out of the laws of physics. To say that intelligence is so complex that it must have been created by an intelligent being begs the question: isn't that intelligent being way more complex than the intelligent humans he created? So wouldn't he be too complex to just pop out of nowhere?

There just isn't any evidence that the universe was created by some kind of disembodied intelligence, some kind of information that is just "out there" and isn't made of anything, yet has the ability to spontaneously create matter and energy through some mysterious process.

Much more plausible, to me, are the theories coming out of modern quantum physics. It seems that even when we look at perfect vacuums, matter is spontaneously creating itself in pairs of particles and anti-particles which annihilate each other in a split second. It may be that our universe began as just a fluctuation caused by these kinds of random quantum events, which generated a huge amount of energy and matter in an event known as the Big Bang. In any case, none of the available evidence suggests that the beginning of the universe had to have come from an intelligent personality which somehow has no brain and no body.

[MoonStarer420]

...matter is spontaneously creating itself in pairs of particles and anti-particles which annihilate each other in a split second.
The strange thing is that in the outcome of the Big Bang, the amount of matter was greater then that of anti matter. However with the "electron-positron pair productions" (and others of this sort) the total energy must be conserved which means they should occur in even amounts. But where is all this anti-matter? It's very puzzling and very fasinating. I'd love to know the physical reason for such a result.

[Oneironaut]

Perhaps the anti-matter is in some parallel universe which we cannot observe, which was created simultaneously with ours, where anti-matter is more plentiful than matter. Just a hypothesis...

[andyandy]

I've always thought the need to resort to prayer in times of need is the most destructive things that the monothestic religions teach....

in times of trauma, all humans go through the same stages....
denial, anger, depression and then acceptance....
prayer is unhealthy as it encourages denial - and as such prolongs the time taken to get to acceptance (where you can finally deal with whatever it is....)
along the way prayer also prolongs the anger and depression stages - because as well as coping with ur problems, u also have to contend with being "let down" by God when those prayers go unanswered.....
in times of our greatest need monothestic religions betray us most because we desire what we can't have.....
and yet the monothestic religions perpetuate this unhealthy myth that "if you're a good christian/Muslim/etc.. then God will answer your prayers..."
If God answered all such prayers people wouldnt die and people wouldnt get sick....and yet they do.
through buddhism you can bypass the denial, anger and depression of major trauma by accepting that life is suffering, and that any desire for "things to be different" only increases that suffering. Its still tough - but better than a false hope in prayer :)

[F L E S H]

I survived cancer, and I'm an "atheist". Was it God's will to have someone who denies Him survive? No, it was chemotherapy and radiation that allowed me to survive.

If I knew someone was praying for me, I'd punch him. Don't tell God to make me feel better, tell ME that I'm going to survive because I'm strong. That's how you help sick people.


I do not understand people who can not realize their has to be a god or some great being out there. How else did we get here. Some people might say evolution and science and all that bullshit. But where did that come from?Space cannot just be there. It had to be created.

I don't understand people who believe in fairy tales as if they were true...

Oneironaut, I love your sig... :D