EVERYONE WHO IS FOR LEGALIZATION NEEDS TO READ THIS!

[m4ster chef]

This is a site i found while reading the link that one of you guys gave in a post about LEAP. This is EXCELLENT material and it should be thouroughly read, TOP TO BOTTOM. This is some of the best material i have seen in a long time.


http://www.drugwardistortions.org/NORML_Truth_Report_2005.pdf

[Kitty Kat]

Thanks for the info!

[m4ster chef]

Knowing the facts and being able to use them in arguments and or discussions is the only way we will ever be able to change people's mind's about marijuana and its use.

Through intelligent argument and reasoning, I myself have changed several people's minds, including my highly conservative grandfather.

Alcohol has been proven, time and time again to be the most overall detrimental substance (drug) available. It is also the cause of more accidents than any other drug and it is responsible for about 45,000 deaths a year and tobacco is responsible for about 440,000 deaths a year.

so stick that in your pipe and schmoke it...lol

[robert42]

but weed kills :(

:p

[tadaa]

Knowing the facts and being able to use them in arguments and or discussions is the only way we will ever be able to change people's mind's about marijuana and its use.

Through intelligent argument and reasoning, I myself have changed several people's minds, including my highly conservative grandfather.

Alcohol has been proven, time and time again to be the most overall detrimental substance (drug) available. It is also the cause of more accidents than any other drug and it is responsible for about 45,000 deaths a year and tobacco is responsible for about 440,000 deaths a year.

so stick that in your pipe and schmoke it...lol

I think the problem here is most people, including ourselves, miss the big picture. The big picture is that the people who are in control of this country, and will always be in control of this country(I'm not referring to any 1 political party, it's a combined effort of both), don't want marijuana legalized, therefore it never will be.

You changed a few peoples minds, don't get me wrong-that's good, but the government changed 200,000 peoples minds today with a commercial they showed. See my point? I've said it time and time again on this board, it comes down to money, MARIJUANA WILL NEVER BE LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES. Money drives this country, why would any government that's driven by money legalize something that will COST them money? Simple, they won't ever do it, period.

It doesn't matter how fucked up it is, this government is a piece of shit. They could care less about you or me, lets be honest here. This may be a good country, and I'm glad to be here, but I sure as hell wouldn't call it "great".

[m4ster chef]

Yes, weed kills. But in a ratio compared to alcohol it is about 1 to 6000 to cause death (one being one unit, enough to get one person "high", the one unit being about a fifth of an eighth of 5 percent THC marijuana), while alcohol has a 1--6 to 1--10 ratio, depending on the person.

And yes, i know you were joking, but there are people who might actually take that seriously.

[m4ster chef]

I have no doubts that it will be legalized. Every year there are about 750,000 people arrested for marijuana.

The war on drugs is a 69 billion dollar a year debachle (if that's spelled right) that has been going on for about 30 years. It costs as much money every year as that first major attack on Iraq. The gov't cannot ignore the increasing use and availability of it, nor can it ignore the significant amount of taxes that could be generated from it.

[rastabill89]

thx man that was a good read

[m4ster chef]

I thought it was a very easy to read and very well put together report with all sources well documented and links to many of them. I dare someone to argue that report down.

[zephyrinne]

That's a good read, thanks man!

I'm hoping within the next couple decades or so that marijuana will be legalized. However, it never will be until people, the average American, wises up and seeks out information on the drug.

The reasons that it will be so hard to legalize is just because the government can't regulate it, like they can tobacco or alcohol. Because weed is so easy to grow, anyone can do it. Therefore they wouldn't be able to tax those who grow personally. BUT if it were legal, the gov't could get so much money by taxing it, because you know most people would probably buy the commercial stuff, so I don't know why they don't think about that. Or maybe they do.. ? :confused:

And besides, politicians and big business, pharmacutical (sp?) companies are all deep in each others pockets with campaigns monies. Don't think these huge companies don't know the benefits of marijuana.. they do. That's why they work so hard to keep it illegal... So people will continue to buy their overpriced and overprescribed medications. :p

[m4ster chef]

Well they cant keep it illegal forever. And if i have anything to do with it it'll be even easier to get. Lol....

I know many of you on this forum are somewhat influential people and those who arent might know someone who is. You might be surprised what tugging at a coattail will do. I personally know several cops that smoke and who KNOW that the "WAR ON DRUGS" is a joke that will never work.

You just cant keep something that has such harmless, yet strong effects from being widely used by the public.

[tadaa]

I have no doubts that it will be legalized. Every year there are about 750,000 people arrested for marijuana.

The war on drugs is a 69 billion dollar a year debachle (if that's spelled right) that has been going on for about 30 years. It costs as much money every year as that first major attack on Iraq. The gov't cannot ignore the increasing use and availability of it, nor can it ignore the significant amount of taxes that could be generated from it.

I don't think you understand, there would be little or no tax dollars generated from legalization because everyone would grow it themselves, or buy it from someone else who does.

[infidel818]

no, they just need to follow Holland's government. Sell it, for cheap, and tax it.....trust me, people will chose to buy it from a conveniant coffee shop rather than call around to see who can sell it to them.

[Theduderino]

Very nice I must admit. Would be nice though if the government actually listened. But, of course, all they think about is money...

The Duderino

[tadaa]

no, they just need to follow Holland's government. Sell it, for cheap, and tax it.....trust me, people will chose to buy it from a conveniant coffee shop rather than call around to see who can sell it to them.

Why? Do you realize that the big pharm. companies out there are paying the government huge amounts of cash every year to keeps drugs like this from being legalized?

Trust me, if there was money to be made from legalization it would have been done a long time ago.

[grinthenbearit]

thanks for sharing...

that is good education....I wish all voters would have to read tht before voting about legalization

[insanity]

I am mixed up on the legalization issue. On one hand it could be really good for society as a whole (tax revenue and all). On the other hand, it could also kill or atleast posion a community I've been part of since 7th grade (cannabis consumers). Also, I feel weird about giving money to the state so I can get high. But I will prob. vote for it because of its potenial to help relieve the burden on society that moronic drug laws created.

[AmberL]

I think the problem here is most people, including ourselves, miss the big picture. The big picture is that the people who are in control of this country, and will always be in control of this country(I'm not referring to any 1 political party, it's a combined effort of both), don't want marijuana legalized, therefore it never will be.

You changed a few peoples minds, don't get me wrong-that's good, but the government changed 200,000 peoples minds today with a commercial they showed. See my point? I've said it time and time again on this board, it comes down to money, MARIJUANA WILL NEVER BE LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES. Money drives this country, why would any government that's driven by money legalize something that will COST them money? Simple, they won't ever do it, period.

It doesn't matter how fucked up it is, this government is a piece of shit. They could care less about you or me, lets be honest here. This may be a good country, and I'm glad to be here, but I sure as hell wouldn't call it "great".
I agree 100%

[yoda]

that was an educational read right there, and i want to support NORML

[pabloescobar209]

I think it has a lot to do with the stereotypes associated with Marijuana, and with anybody that supports legalization... The simple fact is that even if president bush beleived himself that it would be goos for the country to legalize it, he would never say because it will ruin his rep, and as for other politicans, they wont because they dont want to lose votes...My view is that in 20 years we will be looking back on this the way we look back on segregation now, it will seem insane that a plant would have been illegal... in the same way that it seems insane to think there used to be 2 different schools for white and black people.

[Gumby]

I think the problem here is most people, including ourselves, miss the big picture. The big picture is that the people who are in control of this country, and will always be in control of this country(I'm not referring to any 1 political party, it's a combined effort of both), don't want marijuana legalized, therefore it never will be.

You changed a few peoples minds, don't get me wrong-that's good, but the government changed 200,000 peoples minds today with a commercial they showed. See my point? I've said it time and time again on this board, it comes down to money, MARIJUANA WILL NEVER BE LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES. Money drives this country, why would any government that's driven by money legalize something that will COST them money? Simple, they won't ever do it, period.


I think it's because of people like you that marijuana isn't legal. You see it as a war that is lost, so there is no reason fighting and that is the worst thing you can do. You are what the DEA wants, people who think they control us and can tell us what to do. You've ruined the idea of democracy because you let the government tell you what you can and can not smoke. It's your fault it's illegal not the government's or their money... you give them their money and tell them what to vote for. Politicians are SERVENTS and untill YOU understand that we will never have legalized marijuana. But if you wake the fuck up and realize that we choose who governs us we can change what they feel.

Look at immigration - no one gave a shit a week ago... but 300,000 people march for one week and over %50 of americans think it's a big deal. They want congress to address it this week. It's moved up that fast because of people who understand that they run our country not our officials. It's sad when Mexicans understand the power of democracy more than we do.

There is a Million Marijuana March (global Marijuana March) in one month. I will bet that if we manage to get 500,000 people to march in just the US people will talk about it. Get 1,000,000 and it'll change things... But I know that a lot of people won't make that stand because they think we've lost the war and there is no hope for marijuana... well i just hope for you that once it becomes legal everyone who doubted it's legalization and smokes should not be allowed to use it.

"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." -- Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)

You are the worst part about the drug war... it's easy to tell someone who doesn't smoke that they have been lied to... but when someone that smokes still has doubt in the power of cannabis you are either grossly uneducated about the subject, or a bigger hypocryte than the government that forces these laws...

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

[tadaa]

I think it's because of people like you that marijuana isn't legal. You see it as a war that is lost, so there is no reason fighting and that is the worst thing you can do. You are what the DEA wants, people who think they control us and can tell us what to do. You've ruined the idea of democracy because you let the government tell you what you can and can not smoke. It's your fault it's illegal not the government's or their money... you give them their money and tell them what to vote for. Politicians are SERVENTS and untill YOU understand that we will never have legalized marijuana. But if you wake the fuck up and realize that we choose who governs us we can change what they feel.

Look at immigration - no one gave a shit a week ago... but 300,000 people march for one week and over %50 of americans think it's a big deal. They want congress to address it this week. It's moved up that fast because of people who understand that they run our country not our officials. It's sad when Mexicans understand the power of democracy more than we do.

There is a Million Marijuana March (global Marijuana March) in one month. I will bet that if we manage to get 500,000 people to march in just the US people will talk about it. Get 1,000,000 and it'll change things... But I know that a lot of people won't make that stand because they think we've lost the war and there is no hope for marijuana... well i just hope for you that once it becomes legal everyone who doubted it's legalization and smokes should not be allowed to use it.

"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." -- Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)

You are the worst part about the drug war... it's easy to tell someone who doesn't smoke that they have been lied to... but when someone that smokes still has doubt in the power of cannabis you are either grossly uneducated about the subject, or a bigger hypocryte than the government that forces these laws...

"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

You make me laugh. Do you realize that the people of this country don't get to vote on federal laws, right? It's not like the government lets the citizens choose their laws. As long as the government makes the laws, which it always will, marijuana will never be legal in this country. You could have 5 million people march and it isn't going to do a damn thing. Citizens don't dictate law, the government does.

The only way it will change is if there are enough politicians elected that support marijuana to make a difference, and they are few and far between, let alone enough to actually make a change.

[Gumby]

you make me cry... you're the reason democracy doesn't work... and you still don't understand that.

Congress makes the laws - we elect congress - we make the laws

IF you don't vote for who you want, nothing will change.

IF you do vote it will change.

Marijuana is legal for medical use in 11 states and many other cities around the us have decrimed it. In November Nevada and Colorado both have statewide legaliztion bills (NV almost passed 4 years ago). Loretta Nall is running for governor of Alamaba - Leading member of the U.S. Marijuana party. There have been officials in governtment that want it legal -

On September 6, 1988, the Drug Enforcement Administration's Chief Administrative Law Judge, Francis L. Young, ruled: "Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known....[T]he provisions of the [Controlled Substances] Act permit and require the transfer of marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule II. It would be unreasonable, arbitrary and capricious for the DEA to continue to stand between those sufferers and the benefits of this substance." - Source: US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Agency, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition," [Docket #86-22] (September 6, 1988), p. 57.


* Biblical - Genesis 1:29 "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."

"Make the most of the Indian Hemp Seed and sow it everywhere." George Washington

"Congress should definitely consider decriminalizing possession of marijuana... We should concentrate on prosecuting the rapists and burglars who are a menace to society." Dan Quayle U.S. Representative and Vice president under President Bush March 1977

"Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marihuana in private for personal use... Therefore, I support legislation amending Federal law to eliminate all Federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce [28g] of marihuana." Jimmy Carter U.S. President Message to congress 1977

"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." Ronald Reagan U.S. President

Annual drug deaths: tobacco: 395,000, alcohol: 125,000, 'legal' drugs: 38,000, illegal drug overdoses: 5,200, marijuana: 0. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war?
--Ralph Nader

Is that not good enough for you? Do you need more cause I can get them?? It's not that the politicans don't want to legalize it... it's that no one voting cares about it. You don't think that if 5 million people said we'll vote for you if you legalize marijuana not one would try to legallize it?? You're an idoit otherwise. They don't make our laws because they shit it out one day and think it's a good idea... they make laws inwhich they believe people will vote for them and keep them in office and if marijuana smokers sit asdie and believe that thier vote counts less than anyone elses and will cause no change then hell no it won't become legal... but if morons like you wake the fuck up and realize that it doesn't take a billion people to change something it will happen.

It takes 3-5 people to change a cities status on marijuana... but you'll never understand that untill you understand democracy, perhaps you should read our declaration (written on 100% hemp) and constitution before you debate on how our country runs. Just because we have a tyrant in office doesn't mean this is how American is spose to be. You must realize that as well.

[tadaa]

you make me cry... you're the reason democracy doesn't work... and you still don't understand that.

Congress makes the laws - we elect congress - we make the laws



Bingo, and if you had any common sense, or knew anything about politics you would realize 2 things.

1. Most politicans that are in favor of legalization won't ever go public with it because it SEVERELY decreases their chances of being elected because the majority of voters don't want it.

2. No matter how liberal a politican is they aren't going to turn down thousands of dollars in kick backs from pharm companies and other politicans to keep this drug illegal.

I don't think you get it, people in congress would take a salary cut if laws such as legalization were passed. I don't care how liberal you are, nobody turns down that kind of cash. You really have no clue as to how things really work.

It comes down to money. You could have 50 million people march and it wont' do a damn thing because people in power would rather have more money in their pockets than satisfy the majority. Keep in mind, we're talking about a small march here, even 50 million isn't a majority in this country. We're talking about what, maybe 50 thousand, even 500k, that's nothing in a country of 295 million people.

[Gumby]

ps. any ANY person can submit a bill to congress... I've personally written 5. We live in a country where people have more power over the ruler, read a history book. Congress isn't a closed room, it's live on TV... you can watch it now and see what they are saying. You can e-mail or call all of them and tell them if you think they are right or wrong 100 times a day. They are normal people like you and me and if they get thousands of emails of people telling them that what they are doing is wrong they will change. But I'm guessing you don't even know what cspan is. So please try to pay attention to our government and get involved and with a few more people things will change. Do you honestly not think that if the 5,000 people that come here daily emailed there representive and senator nothing would change?? It's because they get one email a day that nothing changes...

here, i've gotten their emails for you... just smoke a bowl and write 2 emails telling them you think marijuana should be legal. The worst thing that could happen is they not read it...

http://www.house.gov/writerep/

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

[Gumby]

they don't stay elected if no one likes them... that's why we vote and it's hard to get money if your not in office

[tadaa]

ps. any ANY person can submit a bill to congress... I've personally written 5.

And how did that work out for you? My point stands. You act as if the government doesn't know that marijuana isn't that bad, they know, they don't care.

Don't you think that if it was ever going to be legalized it would have been done by now, that's common sense. Trust me, you're shooting for the impossible. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but there really is no chance or it would have been done a long time ago.

[m4ster chef]

Tadaa, i have agreed with you before, but now is not one of those times. I think you're just a really closed minded person.

Look at the gay community. They only constitute about 1 percent of the population and because they made a stand now they get what they want.

I hope you realize that it is because of people like you that are so closed minded as to the amount of power we as people have that we cant get laws and issues to the surface.

OF COURSE doing what you're doing is the easiest thing. You have already given up. I bet you have the survival instinct of a do do bird. People like you just arent fighters.

You follow. Congtartulations. YOU can convince your friends that sitting on your ass and smoking pot in secret is the easiest thing to do.

You do absolutely nothing for the cause. In fact, you're on the opposite side and I really wish you would just try some of the suggestions that Gumby made. He's right this time. And good luck getting anyone to agree with you.

[tadaa]

Tadaa, i have agreed with you before, but now is not one of those times. I think you're just a really closed minded person.

Look at the gay community. They only constitute about 1 percent of the population and because they made a stand now they get what they want.

I hope you realize that it is because of people like you that are so closed minded as to the amount of power we as people have that we cant get laws and issues to the surface.

OF COURSE doing what you're doing is the easiest thing. You have already given up. I bet you have the survival instinct of a do do bird. People like you just arent fighters.

You follow. Congtartulations. YOU can convince your friends that sitting on your ass and smoking pot in secret is the easiest thing to do.

You do absolutely nothing for the cause. In fact, you're on the opposite side and I really wish you would just try some of the suggestions that Gumby made. He's right this time. And good luck getting anyone to agree with you.

Um gays still aren't allowed to marry in most states, and we're talking about a drug here, not gay people.

[m4ster chef]

It's the principal. But im done trying to convince you otherwise. You're a lost cause in my opinioin. At least right now.

Go home and hide and smoke a bowl. And when it's legalized you can still go home and hide and smoke a bowl because you wont have had even one tiny part in it.

And it's not a drug. And this country was FOUNDED on christian beliefs and those beliefs say that homosexuality is wrong. But they cried and cried and to make the people happy it's being legalized. So like i said, you can play hide and go smoke.

[m4ster chef]

Also pot isnt legal, IN MOST STATES. so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[m4ster chef]

How many states is pot legal in now? I dare say more than the gays are allowed to marry in.

[Gumby]

You think because of the time it's been illegal is the reason it's not legal? You really are more ignorant than I thought. Nixon was the first to start the 'war on drugs' the DEA isn't even that old... it's been legal for millions of years and illegal for 70 years. I think I'd take the Million years.

It's been illegal because of the people who have been in office... and we choose who gets into office, when you can connect that to the effects it has on law you will understand the basics of government. Marijuana is legal in 11 states because people wanted it to be, not becuase of the government. It's on the ballots in Nevada because of people who asked for it not politicians. Our government hasn't changed the laws on marijuana cause no one has asked them, not because they don't care. They don't care caseu no body is making them care... and the most important people are the ones that vote for them, so when they start caring about it and expressing it they will care, and if they do care they will change it.

If you knew more about the subject you could also tell them about the fuel it can produce, which would stop the need for forgien oil. Or the pulping that could come from it which would stop the cutting down of trees... it because people, much like yourself, who use marijuana don't know the benifits of it and don't express how much making it legal would help out.

here's a book you canread to get a little more knowledge about it...

http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html

If you post again, please come up with because it's been illegal it's going to remain illegal, because that's about the dumbest argument i've heard. And atleast reference something that proves what you think...

[m4ster chef]

Well the whole tree thing isnt REALLY a pressing issue. My grandad is a forrester and he says at the rate forrests are being planted and growing, there's no way we could ever cut them down. In fact, every year, the areas of forrest are outgrowing the areas being cut. Also america needs its timber industry to provide jobs since we're exporting so many jobs overseas. I hate to see people lose their jobs. Also Im mainly refering to the Pine industry.

[m4ster chef]

But im seriously tired of people not trying to change their governments minds. Like you said, we elect them, we dictate what they do. If they want to be elected or reelected they will push the issues we push at them.

[tadaa]

Also pot isnt legal, IN MOST STATES. so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Huh? That doesn't even make any sense. My point is that gays still aren't allowed to marry, pot is still illegal, what's your point?

By your logic since women are allowed to vote that means that pot will eventually be legal. You need to learn about causation. Just because one event follows the next doesn't mean the previous was the cause.

[tadaa]

it's been legal for millions of years and illegal for 70 years. I think I'd take the Million years.



There wasn't government a million years ago. Anymore pointless and useless jibberish?

[Gumby]

i'd still take 4000 years over 70 years...

any more stupid points to make??

[m4ster chef]

You said that gays arent allowed to marry in "most" states.

Pot isnt legal in MOST states. My point, you dumb sensless hammer head, is that it is legal to some extent in some states. You are an ignorant ass. We are making progress (no thanks to you because you try to convince people that we cant) in the fight for legalization. Just like the gays have done. Any group of people can get nearly anything legalized if they bitch and moan about it enough. The squeaky wheel gets oiled. And from now on why dont you try to make a valid point.

[Gumby]

By the way if we were marijuana was loosing the war on drugs and the government is so good at keeping it illegal, why did they increase the DEA budget over 1200% over the past 10 years? To me that sounds like the government is losing and needing more money to fight the war.

But keep cheering for them tadaa, I'm sure they are gonna keep lying to you telling you they are winning and you'll believe them. Just please PLEASE write something factual next time...

[tadaa]

You said that gays arent allowed to marry in "most" states.

Pot isnt legal in MOST states. My point, you dumb sensless hammer head, is that it is legal to some extent in some states. You are an ignorant ass. We are making progress (no thanks to you because you try to convince people that we cant) in the fight for legalization. Just like the gays have done. Any group of people can get nearly anything legalized if they bitch and moan about it enough. The squeaky wheel gets oiled. And from now on why dont you try to make a valid point.

You haven't made any progress because it's illegal in all 50 states jackass.

[m4ster chef]

Im not sure he wants to. It's too much trouble for him to get off his ass.

[tadaa]

i'd still take 4000 years over 70 years...

any more stupid points to make??

Stupid? Me? You just claimed government exsisted a million years ago. The gov. in the U.S isn't even close to 4000 years old, so you make yet another idiotic point.

[m4ster chef]

You're a total douche bag dude. I hope you seriously get caught and sent away for having 5 grams. That way you can think, "Well, they got this pot head. I guess it's my fault because i supported them and said they were winning. Oh well, maybe when i get out in three years gumby and m4ster_chef will have made more steps in the fight for legalization."

[Gumby]

I didn't claim we had government for a million years... you need to read more.

I didn't say the US had a government for 4000 years... I'm not a moron

It's been cultivated for over 4000 years in tribes and cities around the world and I'll take the Chinesse, Aztec, Roman, Greek, Africans, Native Americans, Even our forefathers over the Nixon and the Bushes time in office.

You really need to open a history book of some kind and realize that the United States hasn't always been here and infact we a but a child in the timeline of great nations. If you choose to keep looking at the United States as the perfect country with laws that dictate how things are going to be perhaps you should realize we have hundreds of years to go before we will be great at anything.

[m4ster chef]

Read these and shut your mouth.

http://www.mpp.org/pdf/sbs_report_2004.pdf

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4522

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4525

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4541


Now keep talkin your crap and know that you are wrong.

[m4ster chef]

Hell you can have less than 4 oz in your home in alaska and there is NO FINE, NO PENALTY, NO JAIL TIME. So i think most of us would consider that LEGAL. Maybe not 100 percent, but definitly legal to some extent.

[tadaa]

I didn't claim we had government for a million years... you need to read more.

I didn't say the US had a government for 4000 years... I'm not a moron

It's been cultivated for over 4000 years in tribes and cities around the world and I'll take the Chinesse, Aztec, Roman, Greek, Africans, Native Americans, Even our forefathers over the Nixon and the Bushes time in office.

You really need to open a history book of some kind and realize that the United States hasn't always been here and infact we a but a child in the timeline of great nations. If you choose to keep looking at the United States as the perfect country with laws that dictate how things are going to be perhaps you should realize we have hundreds of years to go before we will be great at anything.

This thread is obviously about the current gov. in the U.S, not the aztecs you idiot.

[m4ster chef]

Wait...why didnt you respond to what i said? You cant "you idiot.". Keep tryin. It seems to me like you dont really care if it's legal or not. You sound like an old fogie that has no idea what he is talking about except that thats what he thinks is tradition.

You cant respond to me because i make valid points and you dont. You're a non cause supporting loser who will do nothing but hurt the cause. You seem like the kind of person who would rat on your friends to save your own sorry ass. You would somehow justify it in your little broken mind.

[Gumby]

well here is what the current government is doing so keep defending them... i'll be the guy laughing at you finially figure out how stupid you sound.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Mike+Ruppert
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Matrix+Of+Evil
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=Truth+and+Lies&pl=true

[tadaa]

well here is what the current government is doing so keep defending them...


Money drives this country, why would any government that's driven by money legalize something that will COST them money? Simple, they won't ever do it, period.

It doesn't matter how fucked up it is, this government is a piece of shit. They could care less about you or me, lets be honest here. This may be a good country, and I'm glad to be here, but I sure as hell wouldn't call it "great".

I rest my case, you haven't even read a damn thing I've said in this entire thread. I've been bashing them this entire thread. Find a tree and hang yourself for being so stupid.

[Gumby]

NO you're defending Bush and Nixon... the presidents in office who tried thier hardest to get marijuana illegal, not the US government as a whole. In November we have this thing they call an election. If people vote there will no longer be a republican house and hopefully senate. If that is the case people like you will be sitting at home with your thmb in your ass cause you do not think things will change. Bush may not be president in a year... he's been cencured and an article to Impeach him has been tried before... we need not have a majority republican congress and things will change... and that can happen in 8 months. Even if we don't loose Bush till '08, your ignorance to believe that we will be govern by the same people and they will change nothng is abundent. You are the worst kind of activist, one who belives they are being governed by corruption and yet does nothing about it.


"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." -- Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)

But keep 'bashing' our government and thinking that they will 'NEVER' change... that's the best thing I can think of to do.

Once again making a point takes a little more than finding two quotes that contradict themselves because you have only made yourself look like you don't know what you're talking about... why would you bash the government and yet think there is nothing you can do to change it? You still haven't made that point clear... the money right?? well... thye don't get money if we don't vote... so what is your next great point to make, please...

[m4ster chef]

He keeps saying "It's all about the money." Well i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but legalizing gay marriage doesnt put money in ANYONE'S pocket. Yet because they formed a voice, they organized rally's and marches and they cried out, now, despite the best efforts of many, gay marriage and gay laws are being enacted.

You just dont care is what it is. But anyway, im done arguing with you. You are a total lost cause. Just go home and masturbate, using your own tears as lubrication. You annoy me to no end but i am letting this go.

No amount of truth will change your mind. You are a hopeless follower who will always be a follower and never do anything to further any cause except your own, which involves sitting on your ass and repeating stupid statements over and over. Im done with you.

[tadaa]

NO you're defending Bush and Nixon... the presidents in office who tried thier hardest to get marijuana illegal

Marijuana was already illegal when they were in office, you really are fucking stupid, aren't you?

I would bet my ass you don't have anything more than a highschool diploma, and you'd be lucky to have that based on the shit you've been saying.

[tadaa]

He keeps saying "It's all about the money." Well i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but legalizing gay marriage doesnt put money in ANYONE'S pocket.

WOW. What the fuck does that have to do with my point?

My point is simple, get a friend to help you understand it if you need to.

This government stands to make more money by keeping pot ILLEGAL, that's it. Get it? It's not that hard to fucking grasp.

[tadaa]

please explain how the government can make more money keeping it illegal where they have to pay for the infrastructure to maintain enforcement and punishment verses legalizing and taxing a similar percentage as they do with tobacco, liquer and other 'vice tax'...

Court fees, the gov. collects a percentage of every fine paid for a bust. Pharm. companies that produce expensive perscrip. meds as well as over the counter meds pay the gov. big dollars each year to keep pot off the market because it would take away from their profits big time if pot became legal. Why would the government want company X to sell pot for 5 dollars a joint when they can sell a bottle of perscrip. pills for 480 dollars? Which sale is going to yield bigger tax dollars for the gov, do the math bro.

These are just a FEW examples. Use common sense, this country as well as the world is driven by money. If legalization meant more money coming in for the gov. it would have been done a long time ago.

[whitewalltoker]

Personally I think EVENTUALLY they will legalize it, it's like ghandi said
"first they ignore you, then they mock you, then they hurt you, then you win"

Ithink I saw that on this site actually......

[beachguy in thongs]

Personally I think EVENTUALLY they will legalize it, it's like ghandi said
"first they ignore you, then they mock you, then they hurt you, then you win"

Ithink I saw that on this site actually......
Ghandi was here? At this site? No way!

[Gumby]

WOW. What the fuck does that have to do with my point?

My point is simple, get a friend to help you understand it if you need to.

This government stands to make more money by keeping pot ILLEGAL, that's it. Get it? It's not that hard to fucking grasp.


What you are not seeming to grasp that even if the government loses money legalizing it, we run the government... why do you think it's right that they make all that money?? I don't, that's when I vote I don't vote or rich white christian pricks, I vote for people who aren't in government to make money... if you even understand that you'll realize that if more dumbasses like yourself wake the fuck up we can stop voting them into office... but you can keep following them and doing as they say and paying them your money. I'm a person who believes in how our forefathers wantes this country to be run, by the people, for the people. They didn't make billions a year, that's only since the Bushes have been in office. Your ignorance to not realize that the government shouldn't control you is what I cannot understand... perhaps your the fag who likes to take it up the ass (not that being gay is wrong)... just sit there and keep telling yourself it feels good...

tell me why we should vote for people who just want money without thinking about the people of this country and i'll shut up, but until then i'd suggest you educate yourself about America and what it was meant to be.