Schizophrenia

[LegallyBlind]

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/cannabis.marijuana.schizophrenia.html

This is a really interesting article about the use of cannabis increasing your likelyhood of getting schizophrenia.

Tell me what you guys think.

[Crispyfried]

If you read the newer studies on Pubmed, there is actually almost no real link. Studies can be manipulated to make the results turn out to be what the researchers or the funders of the research want.

[Hollandica]

a 600% increase of the 0,00001% chance you get schizophrenia....

[miv]

Schizophrenia is not an objectively determinable fact. There is no test for schizophrenia. It cannot be proved or disproved.

Schizophrenia is an attribution, like ugliness. Your are schizophrenic when a psychiatrist decides that you are schizophrenic. Claims that cannabis causes schizophrenia are politically correct and will ensure researchers funds, but they can have no scientific basis, because science deals with demonstrable facts, not attributions.

Of course cannabis is a psychoactive substance. That's why people use it. Like all psychoactive substances, there is risk involved in its use. If we want to eliminate risks, we should start by prohibiting automobiles. Many more people are killed or permanently maimed from automobiles than from cannabis (which doesn't kill anybody).

[ToKnoIsToGro]

Yeah miv you're absolutely right, anything is dangerous when you think about it. After all, "safe" or "not dangerous" is merely defined as "the absence of risk". So, what then is "safe"? Of all the psychoactive substances, cannabis is the SAFEST, least physically addicting, and most able to be used recreationally. Drugs like cocaine and crystal meth cause psychosis and schizophrenia, due mainly to increased dopamine activity resulting in chemical inbalances, muthafucka.

[ToKnoIsToGro]

Also, the article clearly states "Cannabis / Marijuana (and other street drugs) Significantly Increases a Person's Risk for Schizophrenia ", key word that this research group clumps cannabis with "other street drugs". Also, just because the samples had never been TREATED for psychosis or schizophrenia does not mean that they had no pre-existing medical conditions of that nature. In addition, what is the integrity of the study which guarantees that none of the samples were using any other street drugs or taking any other medication, as well as any other genetic or social variables which would contribute to such a diagnosis? Furthermore, what exactly does "schizophrenia-spectrum disorders" mean? What is the margin of human error and mis-diagnosis? Even furthermore, the aticle is quoted with stating: "Cannabis use is associated with poor outcome in existing schizophrenia and may precipitate psychosis in individuals with preexisting liability." Yes, PRE-EXISTING LIABILITY. Which means any number of x-factors may have set off "schizophrenia-spectrum disorders". I have just taken the PRIME Early Screening Test for Schizophrenia and Psychosis and was informed that "Your answers to the schizophrenia screening test DO NOT suggest that you have the early signs of psychosis or schizophrenia" i mean if i would have been able to answer those questions in a manner indicating that i agree, i know i would be fuckin crazy, and up until four weeks ago, i have been a HEAVY cannabis smoker for the past 5 years since age 17. But i guess you can say i have been one of the lucky ones, whatever that means. Also, i cant quite make sense of the x-axis in relation to the y-axis of the risk graph displayed at page:
http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/cannabis.marijuana.schizophrenia.html

[miv]

"Cannabis use is associated with poor outcome in existing schizophreniaThere is no such thing as "good outcome" in what is called schizophrenia, with or without cannabis. Once a person has acquired such a label, he is kept on prescription drugs that are a zillion times more neurotoxic and physically addictive than cannabis, guaranteeing lifelong disability.

Like I said above, schizophrenia is not an objectively demonstrable condition, it is a social attribution by a psychiatrist. When a psychiatrist knows or suspects that a person uses cannabis or other illegal drugs, he is more likely to attribute schizophrenia to the person. In this way, using cannabis "causes" schizophrenia.

[IanCurtisWishlist]

an old friend of mine has paranoid schizophrenia and i can tell you that it's just a fucking living hell for him. the only way i can describe the illness is being a bad LSD trip , all day every day with auditory and visual hallucinations. the thing is that once you're schizophrenic you learn that you can't even trust your own perception of the world, and that' s a very scary thing.

[miv]

an old friend of mine has paranoid schizophrenia and i can tell you that ... the only way i can describe the illness is being a bad LSD trip I don't doubt that your friend's life is out of control. But there's a lot of information missing here. Not that I would want you to supply it (if you knew it), because it would in any case be applicable only to this one individual.

The problem is that like you, "researchers" too draw conclusions from anecdotes and incomplete information. The fact that some researchers claim that cannabis does cause schizophrenia, and others claim that it doesn't (http://archief.volkskrant.nl/artikel?REC=41401eac13116203d7480e510c72a596) should be warning enough to us that the entire field of research is unreliable.

[D.Boone]

for a while i thought i was schizo but then i realised i was had just taken 3 hits of acid and i was fine.

[Crispyfried]

There's a new scientific paper out on Pubmed (look up cannabis or bhang) that says that one of the cannabinoids in marijuana (not THC) is actually antipsychotic.

[thebaron]

Hey! I have been smoking it for years and I am not a SKITZ!

[KHAN]

yeah, right :p

[beachguy in thongs]

"Overall people were 4.5 times more likely to be schizophrenic at 26 if they were regular cannabis smokers at 15, compared to 1.65 times for those who did not report regular use until age 18."

This has been proven through various means. The only way that you're gonna obtain negative effects is if you abuse you it when you're young.

A study did show, HOWEVER, that 17-20 year old light and former users had a higher increase in IQ points than non-users. But, a drop in IQ with heavy users.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

about schizophrenia, i do not understand how it is considered a mental illness.

it is a DISORDER, ONLY because it does not comply with the SO CALLED orderly society.

if everyone were schizo, NOT being schizo would be the disorder.

people can function perfectly fine with shizophrenia, and unfortunately, are likely led to believe they cannot. even so little as taking medication can be an indication to an individual that they do not function "properly". the whole of society is BENT on judging others, so that no one can just be themselves in peace.

[chloe]

You're absolutely right "Stoner Shadow Wolf"... The whole point of smoking weed is to alter the chemical composition of the brain. When you alter this composition your perception of reality changes (so ultimately the point of smoking weed is to induce what some may refer to as a "psychotic episode" or as I refer to it as a simple change in perception). Schizophrenia is so negatively viewed by todayâ??s society that many schizophrenics view it in a negative light as well, which in turn will make the "disorder" affect them negatively, then start the medications, the fears etc... In civilizations all throughout history the "schizophrenics" were revered as the 'see-ers' the shaman and holy men, the people who were blessed with a knowledge that many people could not attain. This is because schizophrenics see and/or hear things that aren't there. That is where the confusion lies. Just because one person does not have the same experience does not mean that the experience isn't there to be observed in the first place. Most peoples' brains just don't operate on a level where perception is open enough to experience things that the rest of the world doesn't experience... so since people don't understand and aren't capable of seeing/hearing these things it's automatically assumed that the experiences had by the schizophrenic are false and that these things donâ??t actually exist. Ultimately the brain is an effective mechanism to show our egos what we want to see and simplify the universe into a handy little reality where everything is concrete and orderly. In actuality "reality" is much more complex then our simple minds can interpret so our brains fashion a handy little place for us to exist where everything has itâ??s place including the self even when simple physics tells us that matter is constantly moving in and out of existence at the speed of lightâ?¦ Okâ?¦ now Iâ??m going to stop myself partway through this metaphysical tangent for fear that if I continue you will all be subjected to an unnecessary amount quantum-physics soâ?¦ if this has interested you at all I would suggest further readings: The Elegant Universe by Brian Green and The Book Of Secrets by Deepak Chopra are both great places to start. Happy toking!

[willystylle]

interesting article but imo b.s. really.

marijuana does not increase the chances of anything except getting high

[missyleah]

marijuana does not increase the chances of anything except getting high

:thumbsup:

[letsdoit]

for a while i thought i was schizo but then i realised i was had just taken 3 hits of acid and i was fine.

fuckin halarious

[letsdoit]

marijuana does not increase the chances of anything except getting high


Your on a roll..! exactly, and who couldnt benifit from that every now and then.

[S i k]

YOU ONLY CAUSE SCHIZOPHRENIA IF ITS GENETIC

and it IS genetic, i have ALOT of college textbooks that say im right

[poorprincess]

ask pureevil

[beachguy in thongs]

* A very large study of 50,465 Swedish army conscripts determined their cannabis use at age 18 and followed those individuals for the next 15 years. Recruits who had tried cannabis by age 18 had 2.4 times the risk of being diagnosed with schizophrenia in the following 15 years than those who had never used cannabis. The risk increased if the conscript used greater quantities of cannabis

However, of the conscripts who developed schizophrenia:

* Most had never used cannabis

and

* Only 7.7 per cent were heavy cannabis users

* Therefore, cannabis use is only one possible factor contributing to an increased risk of developing schizophrenia or other psychosis. This is especially true when one considers that most people who develop a psychosis have never used cannabis

* In addition, cannabis use at age 18 might be a consequence of emerging psychosis (that is, psychosis precedes cannabis use, not vice versa)
http://www.health.vic.gov.au/drugser...s/cannabis.htm

[Stellar]

I'll bet they all ate bread at one point, too.

Where's my report about bread being as present as Cannabis in these studies.

Maybe, this whole time, it was bread.

Its pulling straws. Marijuana initiatives are scary, and whatever disorders can be .00000000000000001% linked to Cannabis use will be made public to combat anything positive that can be said about it.

With the actual facts, Cannabis seems no more a factor in the studies than the fact that they probably all slept laying down.

[PureEvil760]

Being a schizo is fun, so smoke up.

[birdgirl73]

I don't believe there's a causative link between weed and schizophrenia. What I do think is that perhaps people with developing schizophrenia or active schizophrenia may tend to self-medicate at a higher level than others, which could account for the link between schizophrenics and grass use. That is, they feel the disorientation and disorganized thoughts coming on and try to change that with weed and other substances. We know this is true for folks with bipolar disorder, who use psychoactive drugs and alcohol at a much higher rate, often for years, before they're officially diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

[WeedFaerie420]

Schizophrenia is not an objectively determinable fact. There is no test for schizophrenia. It cannot be proved or disproved.

Schizophrenia is an attribution, like ugliness. Your are schizophrenic when a psychiatrist decides that you are schizophrenic. Claims that cannabis causes schizophrenia are politically correct and will ensure researchers funds, but they can have no scientific basis, because science deals with demonstrable facts, not attributions.

Of course cannabis is a psychoactive substance. That's why people use it. Like all psychoactive substances, there is risk involved in its use. If we want to eliminate risks, we should start by prohibiting automobiles. Many more people are killed or permanently maimed from automobiles than from cannabis (which doesn't kill anybody).


If I may make a few corrections...
There are "tests" to see if someone is schizophrenic. That is what the DSM-IV is all about, a list of criteria one has to meet. You can also can see that someone is schizophrenic through the use of PET scans. PET scans indicate brain activity, shown by color coded pixels. Red and Orange colors indicate extreme activity. In schizophrenics, there are red and orange colors that show up in the auditory section of the brain. Also, a friend of mine did develop Drug-Induced Schizophrenia from smoking weed (was hospitalized in a mental institution). He was a fiend with it and it was really unfortunate because he used to be smart, an honors student, good-looking kid. Obviously this is a rare occurance and I don't think it's any reason to go around saying we shouldn't be smoking weed, but I thought I'd contribute a little of my knowledge on the subject.

[shiv]

grass actually cures schizophrenia, and is well proved in various articles in ayurveda and natural cure theraphy.

[surreys princess]

if i may....

dsm is not a test of any kind, it is solely criteria listings and is completely subjective..pet scans are used, but not a sole determining factor..pet scans for schizophrenia diagnosis are used to trace dopamine uptake at the d1, d3, and d4 receptors, which is shown by activity in the striatum and prefrontal cortex..it isnt a measure of the activity but for how checmicals are being processed i guess you could say..plenty of schizophrenics have normal pet scans..like the other post says, there really is no "test"..it isnt like an aids test, or a cholesterol screening..again, it is all subjective..

i have never heard of marijuana leading to drug induced schizophrenia, as drug induced schizophrenia is caused by dopamine surges, and is something you see mainly in amphetamine addicts (i am NOT saying that was this case)..i would like to read about this, if you can provide any information anywhere..after all, knowledge is power..thanks..

so, this was just my two cents here..

[beachguy in thongs]

i would like to read about this, if you can provide any information anywhere..after all, knowledge is power..thanks..

so, this was just my two cents here..

Here's my bookmarks:
http://www.norml.org.nz/article476.html
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_health_story_skin/442927%3fformat=html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/06/040615075809.htm
http://cannabis.net/cannschiz.html
http://www.mth.kcl.ac.uk/~streater/cannabis.html

[surreys princess]

thanks....

well, doesnt change where i stand as the articles trying to link marijuana and schizophrenia are loose at best, as they even admit they cant say if marijuana did worsen underlying symptoms or the patients are self medicating..

im curious as to how come nothing mentions that marijuana doesnt affect dopamine so much, but the reabsorption of seratonin?? dopamine causes the urge to smoke, and the smoking effects seratonin reabsorption..schizophrenia, all dopamine and nmdh receptors..there have been incredible reports by Howlett and Devane, who discovered that cannabis does not affect the "dopamine reward system".

like any other issue, 10 doctors and scientists will have 10 different reasons for their different beliefs..i was really just trying to show that there really are no "tests" for any mental illness, and the proper interpretation of diagnosis..i just cant, in my mind, agree in anyway that marijuana induces schizophrenia..but, that is just me...

princess..

[prplchknz]

I know when I've been hung over from alcohol or exetremely stressed i have heard voices but if i don't drink and don't let myself get to stressed I'm fine. but voices don't come from MJ for me or when they do I can control what they say verbatim, but alcohol and stress I have no control over them.I don't think it causes schitzophrenia especially since I still have control.

[beachguy in thongs]

im curious as to how come nothing mentions that marijuana doesnt affect dopamine so much, but the reabsorption of seratonin?? dopamine causes the urge to smoke, and the smoking effects seratonin reabsorption..schizophrenia, all dopamine and nmdh receptors..there have been incredible reports by Howlett and Devane, who discovered that cannabis does not affect the "dopamine reward system".

like any other issue, 10 doctors and scientists will have 10 different reasons for their different beliefs..i was really just trying to show that there really are no "tests" for any mental illness, and the proper interpretation of diagnosis..i just cant, in my mind, agree in anyway that marijuana induces schizophrenia..but, that is just me...

princess..

Remember that animals don't self-administer cannabis, but, you know, that humans will get addicted to nicotine. Also, marijuana smoke affects the lungs differently.

With the effects of Cannabis, coming from the cannabinoid receptors, dopamine isn't causing the mice to ingest cannabis.

Now, cannabis has been shown, somehow, that it doesn't cause psychosis, but, rather, pre-onset psychosis causes cannabis use.

[Mr.N]

Ok, "pre-onset psychosis causes cannabis use" what the hell does that mean?.. lol

[surreys princess]

it means that in people with schizophrenia have dopamine surges, responsible for pleasure, and it is what makes them (and anyone else) desire to smoke..

[Ganjasaurusrex]

Schitzophrenia is most likely the result of an oxidized condition.

Most times caused by lifestyle and what you eat. Foods that oxidize.
Cooking oils and many, many other substances.

Many times can be corrected with diet changes and certain supplements or herb combinations.

1. Fish oil EPA, more so than DHA.
2. Antioxidants particularly ascorbic acid, vitamin C,E.
3. Niacin
4. Homocystein lowering agents.
5. Dietary correction.


www.weeksmd.com/articles/psychiatry/Depression_and_Schizophrenia_Essential_Fatty_Acids .pdf

Depression and Schitzophrenia most likely caused by the typical western diet
which is full of oxidizing food additives and oils etc.

Enter oxidation/schitzophrenia in your search box.
Enter ascorbic acid/schitzophrenia in your search box.

Other resource and explanation.

Herbchina2000.(search box) "mental disorders" then "schitzophrenia"
formula combinations. click on individual pictures of herbs.

also

www.orthomed.org/pauling.html


Many diseases of the mind and body are the result of oxidized conditions
or deficiencies.

http://www.ceri.com/ffredox.htm

[Ganjasaurusrex]

Schitzophrenia is most likely the result of an oxidized condition.

Most times caused by lifestyle and what you eat. Foods that oxidize.
Cooking oils and many, many other substances.

Many times can be corrected with diet changes and certain supplements or herb combinations.

1. Fish oil EPA, more so than DHA.
2. Antioxidants particularly ascorbic acid, vitamin C,E.
3. Niacin
4. Homocystein lowering agents.
5. Dietary correction.


www.weeksmd.com/articles/psychiatry/Depression_and_Schizophrenia_Essential_Fatty_Acids .pdf

Depression and Schitzophrenia most likely caused by the typical western diet
which is full of oxidizing food additives and oils etc.

Enter oxidation/schitzophrenia in your search box.
Enter ascorbic acid/schitzophrenia in your search box.

Other resource and explanation.

Herbchina2000.(search box) "mental disorders" then "schitzophrenia"
formula combinations. click on individual pictures of herbs.

also

www.orthomed.org/pauling.html


Many diseases of the mind and body are the result of oxidized conditions
or deficiencies.

http://www.ceri.com/ffredox.htm





Very top web link no good.

Search box:

Depression and Schizophrenia Essential Fatty Acids and Other Essential Nutrients

should see a series of blue boxes on page.

[beachguy in thongs]

Ok, "pre-onset psychosis causes cannabis use" what the hell does that mean?.. lol

Lol. Say you're gonna get psychosis. Say every person in your family has had it for seven generations. Well, you smoke marijuana at age 13 to see if you can change history and not get psychosis at 16, as all your family members have.

To someone with intelligence, they'll conclude that cannabis made that 13 year-old crazy.

[MegaOctane12]

it means that in people with schizophrenia have dopamine surges, responsible for pleasure, and it is what makes them (and anyone else) desire to smoke..


I would say that's quite likely. A friend of mine has schizophrenia, I can't remember when he developed it, whether he had it from birth or not. He was always wanting to get high, if it wasn't weed he'd smoke crack, he did this knowing how fucked up he would be the following few days, sometimes it would take months to detox from it. He would have to go to a unit where they pumped him full of all sorts of medication. Regardless of that he would still want to smoke/drink as much as he could. I would say its more likely schizophrenia causing reckless use of MJ than MJ causing schizophrenia.

[Euphoric]

AMSTERDAM - There is no scientific proof that cannabis use induces schizophrenia, Dutch scientists say, questioning recent research and an argument the Dutch government uses to crack down on marijuana-selling â??coffee shops.â?�

In an article in this weekâ??s Magazine for Psychiatry, a peer-reviewed journal, the three authors say that on the basis of currently available data â??there is no justification for the proposed closure of coffee shops.â?�

Often the first symptoms of schizophrenia occur during adolescence, when people start to experiment with drugs, but the scientists believe cannabis use only has a negative effect on people already genetically predisposed to the mental illness.

Story continues below ↓
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advertisement
:dance: :dance: :dance:
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â??It is therefore advisable that youngsters with a family history of schizophrenia and patients with a schizophrenic disorder be discouraged from using cannabis,â?� the report said.

Subsequent Dutch governments have tightened rules on the sale of marijuana in government-regulated coffee shops, resulting in a significant reduction in the number of cannabis cafes.

A ban this year on alcohol in coffee shops will be followed by a ban on tobacco in 2005, outlawing all smoking on the premises.

There are around 780 coffee shops in the Netherlands of which 270 are in Amsterdam, according to 2002 figures.

[beachguy in thongs]

â??It is therefore advisable that youngsters with a family history of schizophrenia and patients with a schizophrenic disorder be discouraged from using cannabis,â?� the report said.


Alright, Euphoric. No bud for you. We all know about your Great-Grandfather. :cool:

[jamstigator]

I used to be schizophrenic but we're okay now. ;)

[WeedFaerie420]

if i may....

dsm is not a test of any kind, it is solely criteria listings and is completely subjective..pet scans are used, but not a sole determining factor..pet scans for schizophrenia diagnosis are used to trace dopamine uptake at the d1, d3, and d4 receptors, which is shown by activity in the striatum and prefrontal cortex..it isnt a measure of the activity but for how checmicals are being processed i guess you could say..plenty of schizophrenics have normal pet scans..like the other post says, there really is no "test"..it isnt like an aids test, or a cholesterol screening..again, it is all subjective..

i have never heard of marijuana leading to drug induced schizophrenia, as drug induced schizophrenia is caused by dopamine surges, and is something you see mainly in amphetamine addicts (i am NOT saying that was this case)..i would like to read about this, if you can provide any information anywhere..after all, knowledge is power..thanks..

so, this was just my two cents here..


In my post I put "test" in quotes just I have done here. I said it was a list of criteria. And if you think what I said was off, then blame my psych teacher who went to Yale. -shrug-

[Purple Banana]

I am schizophrenic, in particular, the disorganized schizophrenic type. There are three kinds:

Catatonic Schizophrenia is characterized by extended periods of blank staring, immobility, possible hallucinations (visual or auditory) but the person mentions little or no signs of these.

Disorganized Schizophrenia is characterized by disorganized thoughts- usually very abstract or out of order, with less prevalance of hallucinations, although minor ones usually are present.

Paranoid Schizophrenia is the type usually portrayed heavily in movies and TV. Paranoia is very strong, as are hallicinations- both visual and auditory.

Like I've said many times before- pot helps me to organize my thoughts, as well as harness the creative side of my abstract thought into music, philosophy, writing, art, and just about everwhere. It's a blessing.

[Platinum Plus]

Yea i don't believe in anything a psychiatrist or someone like them says
and i can't really say i believe 100% in the studies that show a positive side of MJ
because it seems everytime there's a study sayin somethin bad about the chronic
then there's usually a good report of the same thing the others said was bad
you know what i mean, so i can't really say i believe in any of it 100%
but anwyays it's not gonna change my cannabis smoking one bit
i love the stuff and it has helped me with certain things such as sleep deprevation
it really helped me with that...

[robert42]

I don't believe there's a causative link between weed and schizophrenia. What I do think is that perhaps people with developing schizophrenia or active schizophrenia may tend to self-medicate at a higher level than others, which could account for the link between schizophrenics and grass use. That is, they feel the disorientation and disorganized thoughts coming on and try to change that with weed and other substances. We know this is true for folks with bipolar disorder, who use psychoactive drugs and alcohol at a much higher rate, often for years, before they're officially diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

BIRDGIRL ALWAYS SAYS IT BEST

I agree :D

[Matt the Funk]

Yeah birdgirl said it right. I was diagnosed schizo tuesday, but haven't spoke to the doctor face to face about it yet. I don't believe there is a link and weed seems to help rather than cause harm.

[rebgirl420]

Im schizo and bipolar. Ive been on meds for it for about 3 years. Weed helps my racing thoughts go away so i dont really think its hurting. I suppose its helping anyway.

[rebgirl420]

hmmmm I think its just the man keeping us down haha