Charles Manson....

[king kong bong]

Revolutionary or nutcase? where do you stand?

[turtle420]

He's a fucking nutcase man.

[MullManiac]

He made up a meaning for a song and based his entire life around it



Nutcase

[king kong bong]

this is pretty true though...

iâ??ve recently come to the conclusion that, because most of society is so weak willed and dishonest with themselves that they allow their fears to take control of their lives. they allow meaningless schemes of time and money to live their lives for them, because they fear that chaos is real and is the truth. they hide under and inside their shells under the guises of time and money to make them feel secure from their fears and maintain control of their lives. they do not live within themselves and their heart and their mind and their spirit, but somewhere else it was not meant to exist. they live on the outside of the truth.

now because people feel the need for control, to cease to recognize the reality of chaos that is natural, they also look for comforts. comforts can vary from eating, not eating, sleeping, not sleeping, etc. etc. everyone has their things they do in order to take them home to their safe space in themselves. if you abandon the commonly understood definition of what a â??drugâ?� is, and re-define it as anything that you do in order to return to the safe space, then for all purposes it becomes completely possible for anything and everything to be a drug. people are constantly at struggle with control and everybody seeks escape through their â??drugâ?� - anything and everything - love, puppies, dope, long walks, whatever does it for you. since people are in a constant struggle and have a desire to remain in their safe space, it is very easy for people to forget about moderation and become addicted - overeating/starvation, over-sleeping/sleep deprivation, etc. this is when desire becomes addiction. for most addiction is destructive. any â??drugâ?� can be embraced, but all â??drugsâ?� need to be used in moderation. anytime someone becomes dependent on something other then themselves in order to supply their own satisfaction, they are failing to moderate use, and have turned it into abuse, therefore losing the control they initially sought after.

after having said that you could look at society as a whole as view them as a group of weak willed, dishonest and fearful group; what are people really so afraid of i wonder? most believe in an afterlife, because their religion (just another crutch and control) tells them thatâ??s what will happen after life on earth. yet, people run around frantically worrying what others will think of them. the pop star culture does nothing but feed peopleâ??s insecurities, and when there is the occasional â??celebrityâ?� (which is a person really no different from any other), that isnâ??t afraid to do as they please, they become a symbol of hope for many. after becoming a symbol of hope, people through their insecurities and fears allow their lives to be led by this symbol of hope. absolute bullshit. people are more than capable of becoming anything they want, but they sit back and let someone live out their dreams and hopes for them. living vicariously through someone else is lame and is, to me, just another sign of how weak willed people can be and really are. people really have no reason to have faith in their surroundings, and why should they need to when all the faith they really need is right within. for some reason, people allow their â??drugsâ?� - religion, addiction, fear, etc. - to blind them from seeing and taking advantage of everything that they already have. people are born free - as spirits - as a mind, but not as a body in all places unfortunately. people fear those that have peace of mind and soul, and donâ??t need peace of body, simply because itâ??s something they cannot bring themselves to do. they cannot let go of their control and their â??drugs.â?� those that donâ??t fear it, embrace it, but mostly only by watching from a distance and admiring and wishing they someday they could be just as strong willed. i say that day is today, and someone needs to open their eyes to it. if people abandon all their earthly comforts and learned to open their hearts to love again, not only would there be a downfall of desire (addiction to) for control, but they would learn to love themselves again. (earthly comforts being those material values that people canâ??t seem to let go of. itâ??s important to distinguish the difference in meaning between â??earthlyâ?� and â??naturalâ?� (coming from the earth).) people would realize that if they just followed their heart and put themselves to it that any dream or hope they have can become a reality.

there have been many people, mainly musicians and artists, whom have realized their peace of mind, and because music and art is a universal language of the mind and soul, played or created through and/or by the body, many have been saved through this media. the pop star/celebrity culture is the foe to this idea of freedom and peace of mind, and infect (mainly) our youth with insecurity, fear and a false pretense to where the home of happiness really is. those in the spotlight are to afraid to show them are people just like everybody else and live in fear of judgment and criticism if they were to open up that door and allow people to see who they really are. as a result of this, the public in hidden from the depression that the celebrity culture thrives on. they feed people with the idea that happiness can be measured by earthly things, and people live their lives in search of this, rather than just realizing peace of mind and living merely because they were born to live. every generation has itâ??s group that stands up and searches for peace within, and spreads hope to others - beatniks in the fifties, hippies in the sixties and seventies, etc., etc. however because people allow time to control their lives so much, we all become a product of our time and ostracize others who are a different product. fact of the matter is that we all have a lot to learn from each other in order to realize freedom and peace within ourselves, but people need to first let go of their comforts and addictions to time and money and all other things that donâ??t mean shit, because you canâ??t measure happiness and satisfaction with a pile of shit. people generally have the tendency to hate what they canâ??t bring themselves to understand, but if everyone opened their eyes to someone elseâ??s life and understand it and equate it into their own lives, they would have a lot to gain.

[Euphoric]

Been listening to charlie's music and speeches for years. in fact every day for the past 6 months .. so i voted Revolutionary, naturally.

[Oneironaut]

How can Carles Manson be called a revolutionary? What was his plan for the revolution? What socio-economic system was he aiming for after the revolution? Besides, just being a revolutionary does not make your cause a good one. Remember, Stalin and Pol Pot were revolutionaries.

Charles Manson believed that the Biblical apocalypse was imminent. This is enough to discount any revolutionary potential in him. Ignoring for now the fact that religion is always a reactionary and anti-revolutionary power, if you believe the end of the world is coming, there's no point in forcefully overthrowing the current social structure. If the fate of humanity is in God's hands, then there's no point in taking it into your own hands (i.e. starting a revolution).

Also, it seems his vision of a "revolution" was a race war larger than any war in history. How ridiculous is that? Sure, there is still plenty of racial tension in the world but I think we can all agree that racism is on the decline and is way less influential on people than it was 25 or 50 or 100 years ago. The world is becoming more and more tolerant, not less.

And any revolution worth fighting will not be a racist one. I'm not going to be getting behind the barricades with the white supremacists just because they're the same color as me. Most real revolutionaries (i.e. communists and anarchists) don't believe in racism, but rather think that the ultimate goal of revolution is an egalitarian society, which includes racial egalitarianism.

When the revolution comes, revolutionaries of all colors will have to band their efforts to collectively overthrow the establishment. If the working class is divided amongst itself, how can it make any real change to the system? How can capitalism and government be done away with if the races are all fighting each other instead of their oppressors? That would make it real easy for the army to just step in and crush the revolution.

Fuck Manson. Long live the revolution.

[infidel818]

If you want a revolution, you do not kill. Spreading peace is how you start a revolution. When I think of Manson, I think of a cult leader, like L. Ron Hubbard.
Anyone learn from Ghandi?

[Oneironaut]

Sorry, but all revolutions involve some bloodshed. It is historically inevitable: look at the French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Russian Revolution... If you want to overthrow the establishment, you have to have some guns. People don't just give up power when they're asked to.

Spreading peace is how you start a revolution unless you are being opressed.
But we are being oppressed. If we weren't, there would be no point in the revolution.

[VoidLivesOn]

Hmmm...isn't he getting out soon?

[stangle12]

ghandi never killed anybody.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Lie - Charles Manson is a murderer. The assumption that Charles Manson is some kind of murderer has been so widely and blindly accepted that many people regard is as a fundamental truth. Manson's picture graces the covers of numerous books on mass murder. Media interviewers assume that he is a killer. (Geraldo to CM: "You're a mass-murdering dog.") Yet Manson has never killed anyone. The prosecution never claimed that he killed any of the persons for whose murders he was convicted (He was never present at the Tate residence; he left the LaBianca residence before anyone was killed; he was not present when either Gary Hinman or Shorty Shea was killed.). And aside from some wholly unsubstantiated rumors (e.g. that he shot someone in the head with a .45 in Death Valley) there is no evidence that he ever killed anyone in a murder that he wasn't charged with.
http://www.atwa.info/lies.htm

[turtle420]

Lie - Charles Manson is a murderer. The assumption that Charles Manson is some kind of murderer has been so widely and blindly accepted that many people regard is as a fundamental truth. Manson's picture graces the covers of numerous books on mass murder. Media interviewers assume that he is a killer. (Geraldo to CM: "You're a mass-murdering dog.") Yet Manson has never killed anyone. The prosecution never claimed that he killed any of the persons for whose murders he was convicted (He was never present at the Tate residence; he left the LaBianca residence before anyone was killed; he was not present when either Gary Hinman or Shorty Shea was killed.). And aside from some wholly unsubstantiated rumors (e.g. that he shot someone in the head with a .45 in Death Valley) there is no evidence that he ever killed anyone in a murder that he wasn't charged with.
http://www.atwa.info/lies.htm
True... he only brainwashed three unknowning girls into commiting his murders... he's a coward, he isn't a man, he has no balls, and I'm happy he's rooting in prison. :D

You see that? That's me smiling when I think he's rooting in there :D

[Oneironaut]

ghandi never killed anybody.
That doesn't mean nobody died to get the British out of India. And besides, the Indian independence movement wasn't a real "revolution". The socioeconomic structure of India is pretty much the same as it was before. It is a member of the British Commonwealth and recognizes the British monarchy. The economy is still structured so that most wealth is concentrated into the hands of an elite few. And of course, the wretched caste system is still alive and well. A certain amount of self-administration was gained, but nothing fundamental has really changed. The Indian people remain oppressed.

[Breukelen advocaat]

True... he only brainwashed three unknowning girls into commiting his murders... he's a coward, he isn't a man, he has no balls, and I'm happy he's rooting in prison. :D
You see that? That's me smiling when I think he's rooting in there :D

I'd say stop wasting the taxpayers' money and put REAL murderers in his cell. This guy is a wacko, but it wasn't his fault that people with the ability and willingness to commit murder actually did these atrocious crimes. Manson Family member "Tex" Watson, a murderer, wasn't a female.

Men who are excusing women criminals for their behavior, which is typical of a "house" male, are the ones that have been "brainwashed" - by the convoluted ideas of idiotic feminism.

[suhl]

how does murdering innocent people overthrow the establishment. stop trying to compare it to battles in war you idiot. he found some weakwilled pricks and had them sneak into peoples houses at night and cut them up. they were unaware that it was going to happen. seriously did you go to school? comparing the manson murders to the american revolution is like comparing apples and shoehorns. i was unaware that anyone thought he was a revolutionary. brainwashing people is starting a revolution now? whos the next person youll call a revolutionary, that pyscho from heavens gate, he convinced far more people he was right than manson. charles manson is overrated.

anyone calling him a revolutionary now would be committing his murders for them back when he was around. you disgust me.

[HIGHRYDER]

Manson was and is souless filth.:mad:

[Oneironaut]

you sir are an idiot. how does murdering innocent people overthrow the establishment. i was unaware that anyone thought he was a revolutionary. brainwashing people is starting a revolution now? whos the next person youll call a revolutionary, pyscho from heavens gate, he convinced far more people he was right than manson. charles manson is overrated.
Didn't you read anything I wrote? I don't believe murdering innocent people is going to overthrow the establishment. Nor do I believe that Charles Manson is a revolutionary or anything close to it.

All I said in that post was that violence is necessary in political revolutions. If you want to debate that fact, well, provide me with an example of a bloodless political revolution. It doesn't happen, because the oppressors really want to hold on to what they have, and sometimes you have to behead the king.

[HIGHRYDER]

Lie - Charles Manson is a murderer. The assumption that Charles Manson is some kind of murderer has been so widely and blindly accepted that many people regard is as a fundamental truth. Manson's picture graces the covers of numerous books on mass murder. Media interviewers assume that he is a killer. (Geraldo to CM: "You're a mass-murdering dog.") Yet Manson has never killed anyone. The prosecution never claimed that he killed any of the persons for whose murders he was convicted (He was never present at the Tate residence; he left the LaBianca residence before anyone was killed; he was not present when either Gary Hinman or Shorty Shea was killed.). And aside from some wholly unsubstantiated rumors (e.g. that he shot someone in the head with a .45 in Death Valley) there is no evidence that he ever killed anyone in a murder that he wasn't charged with.
http://www.atwa.info/lies.htm
He Is a murderer. His weapon of choice was brainwashed young women and other assorted followers.

[suhl]

ill admit it, i didnt thoroughly read it, i edited my post a little, but anyone who thinks he is a revolutionary is an idiot

[robert42]

BOTH

[NightProwler]

i said reviloustionary but im not sure why.

[Jeff Spicoli]

LOL!
You want him out of jail! You are one crazy son of a bitch Breukelen..
What do you think CM would do when he got out of jail? Be a productive meber of society? NO. lol

[flamingskullballs]

charles manson was a smart man, and i think he had reason behind his doings.

[Jeff Spicoli]

what was that, you fucking retard.
he wanted to see how easy it was to brainwash some lost souls into murdering for him? lol.

[higher4hockey]

'you wouldn't know crazy if charles manson was sitting on your front porch eating froot loops.'

he's a nut!

[psychocat]

Plain and simply old charlie is a nutter , nothing more nothing less.

[Oneironaut]

Seriously, can somebody explain to me how a Mansonist "revolution" would work?

[Jimmicrackedcorn]

Charles Manson fair enuff wasn't a murderer, but he did tie em up in the Labianca house, allegedly saying 'I'm gonna show them how its done' cuz he was let down by the tate murders, before goin back to his car and instructing them to slice the two up. Either way, why would you like the man? He etched a cross in to his own head, walked around saying he was jesus (which he later said in court, he hadn't yet decided who, or what he was yet), spent over half his life in prison, raped inmates at razor point, pimped inmates, then started a cult, where equally fuckin deluded minds bought in to the utter gr8ness of manson, then he instructed and planned the murders of innocent people. Which yeh, many have done before, and I can see where ure comin from that he himself didn't commit the murders, but so? just cuz every1 branded him the epitomy of evil, and the truth is there are much more fucked up ppl out there (i.e. the two bitches who commited the murders), why would you hail him as a misunderstood genious, or revolutionary? Really man, let me in on this logic, ppl dislike others for sayin sumthin rude or out of line, but if you do all that shit, you'll get praised?

[Oneironaut]

Yeah really, saying Manson wasn't a murderer is like saying Hitler didn't commit genocide because he didn't personally kill each and every Jew, Gypsy, gay, cripple and communist.

[HiddenBeauty]

charles manson was a smart man, and i think he had reason behind his doings.

I think he was a clever man the way he manipulated those women into doing his dirty work but he wasn't clever enough to stay out of prison.I think he took too many drugs,believed his own bullshit and just lost the plot.

[Oneironaut]

Remember that South Park episode with Charlie Manson? In the end he got his swastika replaced with a smiley face. Hahahaha....

[Euphoric]

How can Carles Manson be called a revolutionary? What was his plan for the revolution? What socio-economic system was he aiming for after the revolution? Besides, just being a revolutionary does not make your cause a good one. Remember, Stalin and Pol Pot were revolutionaries.

Charles Manson believed that the Biblical apocalypse was imminent. This is enough to discount any revolutionary potential in him. Ignoring for now the fact that religion is always a reactionary and anti-revolutionary power, if you believe the end of the world is coming, there's no point in forcefully overthrowing the current social structure. If the fate of humanity is in God's hands, then there's no point in taking it into your own hands (i.e. starting a revolution).

Also, it seems his vision of a "revolution" was a race war larger than any war in history. How ridiculous is that? Sure, there is still plenty of racial tension in the world but I think we can all agree that racism is on the decline and is way less influential on people than it was 25 or 50 or 100 years ago. The world is becoming more and more tolerant, not less.

And any revolution worth fighting will not be a racist one. I'm not going to be getting behind the barricades with the white supremacists just because they're the same color as me. Most real revolutionaries (i.e. communists and anarchists) don't believe in racism, but rather think that the ultimate goal of revolution is an egalitarian society, which includes racial egalitarianism.

When the revolution comes, revolutionaries of all colors will have to band their efforts to collectively overthrow the establishment. If the working class is divided amongst itself, how can it make any real change to the system? How can capitalism and government be done away with if the races are all fighting each other instead of their oppressors? That would make it real easy for the army to just step in and crush the revolution.

Fuck Manson. Long live the revolution.

Wow, nicely written! I disagree with it but i can respect a well crafted post.

Charlie has some great ideas on social reform, i like his enviromental skew on things. :thumbsup: He appears to have attempted eugenics on the media. Hey that seems like a good idea to me..futile, but honorable.

Im not a racist and i dont know about his pimping activities..eh

It's not fair charlie is in jail and bush is in top office. Id much rather have a LSD loving tree hugging mass murderer in office than a christian coke addict mass murderer

I think he is a misguided genius and victim of the drug war.

[suhl]

the war on drugs wasnt big at all when manson killed those people. get a clue

[Jeff Spicoli]

Euphoric, please don't be stupid. read what you just wrote:
"Id much rather have a LSD loving tree hugging mass murderer in office than a christian coke addict mass murderer"
please don't say blatantly stupid stuff like that. It is fair Manson is in jail for OBVIOUS FUCKING REASONS.

[king kong bong]

charles manson was a smart man, and i think he had reason behind his doings.

i agree. he was a genius at manipulating people. you people keep saying how he brainwashed and manipulated people, so what. if those people were so weak minded to let it happen, so be it, its their own fault. im just curious, how many actually read up on this?

[Oneironaut]

i agree. he was a genius at manipulating people. you people keep saying how he brainwashed and manipulated people, so what. if those people were so weak minded to let it happen, so be it, its their own fault.
That's what the executors of the Holocaust said at the Nuremburg trials. "We were just following orders."

[king kong bong]

everyone has a choice. if they didnt wanna go through with it perhaps they woulda been knocked off but they still had a choice.

[Jimmicrackedcorn]

I think you're missing the point, if you are goin to go balls out, 'I am the KING OF THE WOOOOOOORLD, the apocolypse is coming, all the wars which have ever happened in history are goin to be PILED on top of eachother, and I the great Charles Willis Manson am the ultimate benificiary, follow me, and my ideas on social reform, for it is I, who will stand victorious, when the imminent global race war comes in to play' Then you do what Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin did, you turn a country in to your pawn, millions upon millions of people brainwashed, to ure way of thinking, through tactical propoganda, and then declare war on other countries and peoples if they disagree. You don't get let out of prison against your own will, then decide for the hell of it to recruit a family of at least 100's (wow thats a lot) with only 30 ''hardcore'' members, then get those members to carry out murders on a few famous people, was he gonna turn the tate and Labianca houses in to Manson forts and eugenics camp inc.? and carry out extensive eugenics there, one famous person at a time, the reason you are praising this man as a genius is ridiculous, if you are going to like a mass murdering fuckhead, why not the ones that really did pull the wool over the masses eyes, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin. If Manson is a genious, but Bush a fuckhead, why?

Regardless of what you say of Bush, he got in to office not once but twice (rather dodgily may I add), got the majority of the public to go with him in the war against Iraq, including England, Australia and a few other countries, the whole conspiracy shit with WTC (which if Bush didn't do it, the afghans deserve a fucking medal for professional demolition and stealth) the war on drugs and propoganda, plus the sheer amount of bullshit and mistakes the man has made in speeches, and he's still up there smiling away, and will probs get in again next elections........

Charlie, brainwashed at least 30 people, then went to two houses (coincidentally one of them being where manson tried to get a contract for a music deal signed, but failed), and ordered a team of 4/5, to kill about 6/7people, with no motive, then he got caught. How do you go about preparing for imminent armageddon? Charlies answer......You form a 30 strong team who are mostly women, to commit homicide on ure orders, to take on the world, then you kill famous people for the cause.........shit I do see what you mean, if only we had more people like him, with similar ideas and plans of action in society, the world wouldn't be as fucked.

If you're liking him for the reasons you are stating: Admiration of the ability of manipulating other people, the course of action he had taken in tryin to reform society, then he is a great failure. I can understand you hating him, I could understand you not forming an opinion, and saying 'hey man, people do wierd shit' but to say you like him and admire him, I ask you again for what and why? And could you supply me with the logic behind why you think its good, I really want to know, I had a friend who praised Osama for the attacks on WTC, and he would never go past 'I think he is a good man' and 'America is bad' I tried to explain to him he hadn't really changed anything in America, and killed a few thousand people (which isn't a lot for serious declaration of war), so even if you don't think the attacks are particularly that bad in comparison to what america has done in the past, why would you praise either?

Always sounded like he just wanted an opinion that was different, becuz if you follow the logic behind praising Osama, or Manson, or others that have tried to overthrow the government, why would you be on either side of the fence? Its the same basic idea.

[C4nn4Bliss]

Lie - Charles Manson is a murderer. The assumption that Charles Manson is some kind of murderer has been so widely and blindly accepted that many people regard is as a fundamental truth. Manson's picture graces the covers of numerous books on mass murder. Media interviewers assume that he is a killer. (Geraldo to CM: "You're a mass-murdering dog.") Yet Manson has never killed anyone. The prosecution never claimed that he killed any of the persons for whose murders he was convicted (He was never present at the Tate residence; he left the LaBianca residence before anyone was killed; he was not present when either Gary Hinman or Shorty Shea was killed.). And aside from some wholly unsubstantiated rumors (e.g. that he shot someone in the head with a .45 in Death Valley) there is no evidence that he ever killed anyone in a murder that he wasn't charged with.
http://www.atwa.info/lies.htm

What he does through others, he is in reality doing himself.

[king kong bong]

Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, these dudes were puppets.


If you're liking him for the reasons you are stating: Admiration of the ability of manipulating other people, the course of action he had taken in tryin to reform society, then he is a great failure.

to understand humans to the point that you can get them to do whatever you want, i admire him for that and also his views on society like people worshipping celebrities and shit and also people afraid to be themselves. but im not too big on the religion part and i doubt he was either. i think he just used it as part of his manipulation tactics.

[turtle420]

I'm still smiling :D

[latewood]

yeah, ACID and kannebanol...is how he brainwashed them all...OK...Manson was a pshyco fuck-up that got all bent out of shape after Brian Wilson(Beachboys) dismissed him as drivel. He hung out with them for awhile...wrote some songs, convinced himself the songs were great! Then when he got the same shaft (or as my best friend put's it; Another bite of Life's 'SHIT' sandwich!), as the "Rest of Us"
OH yeah...and there was something else about Roman Polanski that set him off...That is why Sharon Tate and her Party were murdered; and she was Pregnant! Real Fucking Cool Revolutionary, Huh? Fuck that!!!

Manson should have been 'FRIED' when he was scheduled to be 'FRIED'!!! What an Asshole
He thought he was the Messiah...for Christ's Sake.

later, I gotta go. lw

[BobBong]

In Ontario there was a similar case involving college girls and a sister.. Paul Bernardo convinced his girlfriend/wife to help rape and kill her own sister...although personally, i think it was her idea.. they then went on to do the same thing to 2 more girls..

Revolutionary? I think not.

Burn in Hell Paul... Charles will be waiting for you...

[friendowl]

id like to have a conversation with this guy.
he aint all that crazy but i think he had lots of fun

[infidel818]

Didn't you read anything I wrote? I don't believe murdering innocent people is going to overthrow the establishment. Nor do I believe that Charles Manson is a revolutionary or anything close to it.

All I said in that post was that violence is necessary in political revolutions. If you want to debate that fact, well, provide me with an example of a bloodless political revolution. It doesn't happen, because the oppressors really want to hold on to what they have, and sometimes you have to behead the king.

You are saying that in order to have a revolution there needs to be blood shed because thats how its been in the past. One significant thing history tells us is to not repeat its tragedies. Guns do not do anything but kill people. Now you tell me, if you wanted to start a revolution with guns galore...how long would you last? Especially against the government? The civilians are extremely underpowered. Dont you see what is happening? People think war is the answer to getting what they want, but there are other ways. If you start a war and shoot the enemy, they will just come shoot back, and it will keep going untill everyone is dead. Its sad to think that people need to kill another in order to gain something. If you have that state of mind, you are only supporting the wars that have been fought, and the war thats being fought right now. Nowadays, we can not afford to FIGHT, we need to focus on surviving! Because this whole fucking planet is going to shit! and if we keep having a fighting mentality, sooner or later there will be nothing left, and we'll be fighting with sticks and stones.

[BobBong]

everyone has a choice. if they didnt wanna go through with it perhaps they woulda been knocked off but they still had a choice.

and what of the people in the sights of those guns? did they have a choice? those guards had a choice.. sure...do it, or die.

all you need to have is an understanding of emotion...how can you call this man a genius or a revolutionary when people have been doing what he did for hundreds of years... horrible.. ruthless people. when all he did was manipulate people into doing shit they wouldn't do under normal circumstances. Kill or be killed comes into mind... and until you've been there.. you'll never understand it

[BobBong]

when in a kill or be killed situation, the human natural instinct of self preservation plays a big role in decision making. will, sometimes can overpower this instinct.. but not often. what put charles manson in that situation? probably, nothing.. i mean.. he wasn't even there when those people were killed.. but he manipulated someone into doing it. the choice to take a life without just cause is pretty inhuman if you ask me... and no, someone stealing your stash isn't just cause. what about the victims? what choice did they make? non... what if was your uncle that was murdered by manson? i'm sure that person had family and all that. so yea.. i don't see ANY thing revolutionary about this man... infact.. if anything he's pretty unoriginal...

"According to many former members of the group, Manson implied to his followers that he was Jesus, saying he had died before, some 2,000 years ago. When asked directly in court he said, "I may have implied to several different people on several different occasions that I may be Jesus Christ, but I haven't yet decided who or what I am.""

Nut. Fucking. Case.

end of story.

[Oneironaut]

You are saying that in order to have a revolution there needs to be blood shed because thats how its been in the past. One significant thing history tells us is to not repeat its tragedies. Guns do not do anything but kill people.
Well, sorry to tell you, but guns are here for good. There's no getting rid of them. And as long as there are governments with organized militaries they will be used in brutal wars for money, power and conquest. The only way to stop the cycle of war is to get rid of the social conditions which allow for war.

Now you tell me, if you wanted to start a revolution with guns galore...how long would you last? Especially against the government? The civilians are extremely underpowered.
Quite the contrary. The civilians are all that is keeping the government in place. Where would the government be without the consent of ordinary people like taxpayers, manual laborers and soldiers? If enough of these people decide they no longer want to support the government, the government will be powerless. The point is not to get a few people together to go on a shootout with the military—it is to convince the masses to take their lives into their own hands. It's not all about "guns galore", but the revolution does have to be able to defend itself.

Dont you see what is happening? People think war is the answer to getting what they want, but there are other ways. If you start a war and shoot the enemy, they will just come shoot back, and it will keep going untill everyone is dead. Its sad to think that people need to kill another in order to gain something. If you have that state of mind, you are only supporting the wars that have been fought, and the war thats being fought right now. Nowadays, we can not afford to FIGHT, we need to focus on surviving! Because this whole fucking planet is going to shit! and if we keep having a fighting mentality, sooner or later there will be nothing left, and we'll be fighting with sticks and stones.
I'm not saying violence is desirable. I'm just saying it's inevitable. Non-violence just doesn't work against tyrants. The revolution is not about destruction, it is about the restructuring of social relationships. We want people to be equal, but to abolish inequality we realize we may have to fight some people who wish to retain their power over others and are willing to die for that. Alexander Berkman put it better than I ever could:

Most people have very confused notions about revolution. To them it means just fighting, smashing things, destroying. It is the same as if rolling up your sleeves for work should be considered as the work itself that you have to do. The fighting part of revolution is merely the rolling up of your sleeves. The real, actual task is ahead.

What is that task?

"The destruction of the existing conditions," you reply.

True. But conditions are not destroyed by breaking and smashing things. You can't destroy wage slavery by wrecking the machinery in mills and factories, can you? You won't destroy government by setting fire to the White House.

To think of revolution in terms of violence and destruction is to misinterpret and falsify the whole idea of it. In practical application such a conception is bound to lead to disastrous results.

When a great thinker, like the famous Anarchist Bakunin, speaks of revolution as destruction, he has in mind the ideas of authority and obedience which are to be destroyed. It is for this reason that he said that destruction means construction, for to destroy a false belief is indeed most constructive work.

But the average man, and too often even the revolutionist, thoughtlessly talks of revolution as being exclusively destructive in the physical sense of the word. That is a wrong and dangerous view. The sooner we get rid of it the better.

Revolution, and particularly the social revolution, is not destruction but construction. This cannot be sufficiently emphasized, and unless we clearly realize it, revolution will remain only destructive and thereby always a failure. Naturally revolution is accompanied by violence, but you might as well say that building a new house in place of an old one is destructive because you have first to tear down the old one. Revolution is the culminating point of a certain evolutionary process: it begins with a violent upheaval. It is the rolling up of your sleeves preparatory to starting the actual work.

[Shelbay]

yeah, ACID and kannebanol...is how he brainwashed them all...OK...Manson was a pshyco fuck-up that got all bent out of shape after Brian Wilson(Beachboys) dismissed him as drivel. He hung out with them for awhile...wrote some songs, convinced himself the songs were great! Then when he got the same shaft (or as my best friend put's it; Another bite of Life's 'SHIT' sandwich!), as the "Rest of Us"
OH yeah...and there was something else about Roman Polanski that set him off...That is why Sharon Tate and her Party were murdered; and she was Pregnant! Real Fucking Cool Revolutionary, Huh? Fuck that!!!

Manson should have been 'FRIED' when he was scheduled to be 'FRIED'!!! What an Asshole
He thought he was the Messiah...for Christ's Sake.

later, I gotta go. lw
Wasn't Tex on that plant belladonna when he helped murder? It was a while back I read on Tex but I think that was the name of that plant he said made him do it..

[king kong bong]

and what of the people in the sights of those guns? did they have a choice? those guards had a choice.. sure...do it, or die.

all you need to have is an understanding of emotion...how can you call this man a genius or a revolutionary when people have been doing what he did for hundreds of years... horrible.. ruthless people. when all he did was manipulate people into doing shit they wouldn't do under normal circumstances. Kill or be killed comes into mind... and until you've been there.. you'll never understand it

i said his followers had a choice cuz everyone keeps labeling him as the mastermind. his followers could have chose not to do it. the people in the gun sights still had a choice too, they could just die or die fighting, a fucked up choice but still a choice, no?

as for the revolution/gun thing, i dont think you really need guns either, just take away what they value the most, their money. on second thought you will need those guns....

[JunkYard]

He got people to do his bidding, and for little to nothing in return...I'd say that makes him alot smarter than most.

Is he a nut? Who knows? I doubt anyone knows what goes on in Mansons mind. Although, everyone has an opinion on his sanity.

[king kong bong]

what i find nutty is people worshipping britney spears, kelly clarkson and so on. now thats fuckin insanity.

[Jeff Spicoli]

no, i will not make out with you kong!

HEY GUYS, THIS TOOL WANTS TO MAKE OUT WITH ME

[potsmokingnome]

this is pretty true though...

iâ??ve recently come to the conclusion that, because most of society is so weak willed and dishonest with themselves that they allow their fears to take control of their lives. they allow meaningless schemes of time and money to live their lives for them, because they fear that chaos is real and is the truth. they hide under and inside their shells under the guises of time and money to make them feel secure from their fears and maintain control of their lives. they do not live within themselves and their heart and their mind and their spirit, but somewhere else it was not meant to exist. they live on the outside of the truth.

now because people feel the need for control, to cease to recognize the reality of chaos that is natural, they also look for comforts. comforts can vary from eating, not eating, sleeping, not sleeping, etc. etc. everyone has their things they do in order to take them home to their safe space in themselves. if you abandon the commonly understood definition of what a â??drugâ?� is, and re-define it as anything that you do in order to return to the safe space, then for all purposes it becomes completely possible for anything and everything to be a drug. people are constantly at struggle with control and everybody seeks escape through their â??drugâ?� - anything and everything - love, puppies, dope, long walks, whatever does it for you. since people are in a constant struggle and have a desire to remain in their safe space, it is very easy for people to forget about moderation and become addicted - overeating/starvation, over-sleeping/sleep deprivation, etc. this is when desire becomes addiction. for most addiction is destructive. any â??drugâ?� can be embraced, but all â??drugsâ?� need to be used in moderation. anytime someone becomes dependent on something other then themselves in order to supply their own satisfaction, they are failing to moderate use, and have turned it into abuse, therefore losing the control they initially sought after.

after having said that you could look at society as a whole as view them as a group of weak willed, dishonest and fearful group; what are people really so afraid of i wonder? most believe in an afterlife, because their religion (just another crutch and control) tells them thatâ??s what will happen after life on earth. yet, people run around frantically worrying what others will think of them. the pop star culture does nothing but feed peopleâ??s insecurities, and when there is the occasional â??celebrityâ?� (which is a person really no different from any other), that isnâ??t afraid to do as they please, they become a symbol of hope for many. after becoming a symbol of hope, people through their insecurities and fears allow their lives to be led by this symbol of hope. absolute bullshit. people are more than capable of becoming anything they want, but they sit back and let someone live out their dreams and hopes for them. living vicariously through someone else is lame and is, to me, just another sign of how weak willed people can be and really are. people really have no reason to have faith in their surroundings, and why should they need to when all the faith they really need is right within. for some reason, people allow their â??drugsâ?� - religion, addiction, fear, etc. - to blind them from seeing and taking advantage of everything that they already have. people are born free - as spirits - as a mind, but not as a body in all places unfortunately. people fear those that have peace of mind and soul, and donâ??t need peace of body, simply because itâ??s something they cannot bring themselves to do. they cannot let go of their control and their â??drugs.â?� those that donâ??t fear it, embrace it, but mostly only by watching from a distance and admiring and wishing they someday they could be just as strong willed. i say that day is today, and someone needs to open their eyes to it. if people abandon all their earthly comforts and learned to open their hearts to love again, not only would there be a downfall of desire (addiction to) for control, but they would learn to love themselves again. (earthly comforts being those material values that people canâ??t seem to let go of. itâ??s important to distinguish the difference in meaning between â??earthlyâ?� and â??naturalâ?� (coming from the earth).) people would realize that if they just followed their heart and put themselves to it that any dream or hope they have can become a reality.

there have been many people, mainly musicians and artists, whom have realized their peace of mind, and because music and art is a universal language of the mind and soul, played or created through and/or by the body, many have been saved through this media. the pop star/celebrity culture is the foe to this idea of freedom and peace of mind, and infect (mainly) our youth with insecurity, fear and a false pretense to where the home of happiness really is. those in the spotlight are to afraid to show them are people just like everybody else and live in fear of judgment and criticism if they were to open up that door and allow people to see who they really are. as a result of this, the public in hidden from the depression that the celebrity culture thrives on. they feed people with the idea that happiness can be measured by earthly things, and people live their lives in search of this, rather than just realizing peace of mind and living merely because they were born to live. every generation has itâ??s group that stands up and searches for peace within, and spreads hope to others - beatniks in the fifties, hippies in the sixties and seventies, etc., etc. however because people allow time to control their lives so much, we all become a product of our time and ostracize others who are a different product. fact of the matter is that we all have a lot to learn from each other in order to realize freedom and peace within ourselves, but people need to first let go of their comforts and addictions to time and money and all other things that donâ??t mean shit, because you canâ??t measure happiness and satisfaction with a pile of shit. people generally have the tendency to hate what they canâ??t bring themselves to understand, but if everyone opened their eyes to someone elseâ??s life and understand it and equate it into their own lives, they would have a lot to gain.
Very Excellent point, I honestly beleive everyone has a killer instinct deep down inside, just the majority of the world choose not to act upon that instinct. but to harbour it away deep inside instead. We all have our demons, its just a matter of how we face them that determines who and what we are. You can Fight your demons, you can embrace them, you can let them control you, you can run from your demons, or you can just let your demons run every aspect of your life.

Sorry that turned out to be quite the ramble..lol

[king kong bong]

yea i agree with you. we'll have our dark sides.

spicoli, Who would you rather bone, Meg Ryan or Jack Nicholson?

[Jeff Spicoli]

jack nicholson, i love hairy bears
you?

[king kong bong]

It's all true. The bogeyman is real and you found him.

[Jeff Spicoli]

didn't you hear me?
i fucking love hairy old bears