Ph problem

[Jdzzl03]

Hey guys, I'm a first time grower and decided to start with hydro. I had been reading for months and thought I knew pretty much how everything worked. For the most part everything started great.I started in Feb and wanted to do a test run with some nice bag seeds so that I could get the hang of things. Ok so as far as equipment goes I am using one of those 45 gal rubbermaid containers,reinforced with six holes, water pump and plastic tubing and the floranova nutrient solution. As far as lighting is concerned I am using a 175 MH light with a couple flouros until my 400 HPS light and bulb come in. I am also waiting on my ppm meter so I am keeping the nute solution relatively low. My question is this. Before I went on vacation, checked the ph and it was 5.2-5.5. Everything seemed fine and the plants were doing great. When I came back ph was almost 10. Plants were stunted to say the least and it seemed that the nutrient solution was too strong. So after finding this board and doing so research, I decided to flush the plants and redo the water with half the nutrients i used previously. I checked it that night and the ph was 5.2. I woke up the next day and it was at 6.5. Is this type of ph change normal? It seems like I cant seem to balance the ph for more than a couple of hours. I went out yesterday and bought a water purifier(faucet kind) and changed the water using that. Still not sure if this will do anything but I dont know what else to do, other than check it like every 8 hours. Any suggestions guys?

[friendowl]

i would like to know this also.
good question

[karmaxul]

Organic nute ph raises as bacteria and microorganisms break it down. There are different methods to stabilize the ph at the lab where it is made but not knowing the ingredients it would be difficult to say. Basically you used to much I would think. Did you ad ph up at first at all.

Hanna sells a meter you can check via cell phone. I called them wiinter of 2005 to ask if they had a meter with a remote control so I could switch back and forth from ph to microsiemen reading while I was experimenting with different ratios of nutes at my home. I had the hanna 9044 which is a constant monitoring but the display screen with the buttons was a few feet away and I was feeling lazy. Well they did not have one but they told me they had just made a meter that had not hit the market yet that I could check via cell phone. They had a price for the meter which was I believe around 550usd. And the lady told me that I would still need a adapter for it which acts as reciever for the phone to plug it into the line. They did not have a price of the adapter at that time but she thought it would be like 20 dollars.

One love
c

You should call GH tech support and see what is up.

[karmaxul]

a few ph adjusters are humic acid, folvic acid, calcium (coral calcium is killing the coral of the ocean do to over harvesting), calcium sulfate which is gypsum and the elements plants derive most of the sulfur nutrietion from. Ask what they use. Most likely they use coral calcium which is awfull.

One love
c

[Sinsemilla Jones]

That water was so base, I thought it was crack! (bu-bump)
:p

You gotta keep a real close eye on that ph, until you figure out pretty much how it works.
;)

Much of your problem is probably your water.

Many municipalities treat their water with ph up additives. This is from a city water dept. site -

PH Control â?? pH control is the final step in the treatment process. Here, lime is added for the purpose of increasing the pH of the water. By doing this, the water becomes alkaline instead of acidic which makes it non-corrosive and allows a thin protective coating of calcium to form on the pipe that serves as a barrier between the pipe and the water.

You can treat and filter tap water with peat moss to reduce the ph (it reduces ppm, too), and in a non-recirculating system you can add peat straight to the reservoir to achieve ph stability.

Or you can buy RO water or an RO filter.

PH also will tend to rise as the ppm falls from the plants using the nutes, which might indicate a need to increase the initial nutrient concentration.

Ph will tend to rise during veg and early flower, and fall during mid to late flowering. So starting in the low 5s is probably best, until mid flower when you might want to start close to 6.

:pimp:

[karmaxul]

Crack said it all

One love
c

[Jdzzl03]

Thanks for all the posts. I always check the ph before i add the nutrients and it is usually 5.2 - 5.5. After I add the nutes the ph doesnt usually shift very much.Is there any way that my plants are sucking up so much nutes that it is making the water alkaline?

[GluteusMaximus]

Because you are using tap water, you have to live with a small problem of maintaining PH. This is especially true at the beginning when you're not using very many nutes. As your plants get bigger and you add more nutes to the water, you'll find that the PH problem is much more managable.

I find that keeping normal tap water PH below six in a 55 gal resevoire takes me 15 ML of PH down per day when the nutes are light.

The problem will go away as you increase the nute level. If you really want to get the problem under control, get a Reverse Osmosis pump/filter.

http://www.excelwater.com/eng/b2c/water_tech_4.php

GM

[Jdzzl03]

Ok thanks that sounds like what I am doing now. Thanks for all the help

[GluteusMaximus]

I went out yesterday and bought a water purifier(faucet kind) and changed the water using that. Still not sure if this will do anything but I dont know what else to do, other than check it like every 8 hours. Any suggestions guys?


That faucet water purifier is not doing you any good. If you use RO water you remove everything from the water so that your ppm will be zero when you start adding nutes.

I can't stress enough the value of Reverse Osmosis filtered water. By removing everything from the water, there isn't anything left to raise the ph. The added benefit is that you also don't have anything in your resevoire that doesn't belong there. You know the only thing in there is what YOU put in there.

GM

[Zandor]

That faucet water purifier is not doing you any good. If you use RO water you remove everything from the water so that your ppm will be zero when you start adding nutes.

I can't stress enough the value of Reverse Osmosis filtered water. By removing everything from the water, there isn't anything left to raise the ph. The added benefit is that you also don't have anything in your resevoire that doesn't belong there. You know the only thing in there is what YOU put in there.

GM

Very good point but if you do use RO water (I swear by it my self) then you must also use CalMag Plus to replace some of the nutrients the plant needs but is removed by the RO process.

Around here you can buy RO water for 20-25 cents a gallon. You can fill 5 gallon buckest and if they ask just say you are changing the water in your fish tank.

It's the plants disguard nutrients and other things that change the Ph every day. The less nutrients you use the greater the Ph swing. There are buffers in the nutrients that help keep the Ph in balance but you still need to adjust the Ph about twice a day.

[fhydro]

i know that problem. Without RO water, PH fluctuation depends on O2, CO2, and the amount of roots in the bubbler or rez. In the first stage of the plant, few roots, and generally no CO2 added, the PH can go from 5.5 to 7.5 in 48 h. It's due to the amount of O2 in the water provided by your air pomp. So you add acid every day less and the PH goes stabilizing. (If your air pomp is out of order the PH will drop dramatically because no O2 but many cl of acid added). But when you change your water, you introduce new carbonate ions and once again the same reaction. If you add CO2 in the air, it will go in the water, and will lower the PH naturally. When there is a lot of roots, there is less fluctuation but because it's generally in bloom phase i add CO2 and i've to higher the PH adding some new fresh water. In aquariophilie the CO2 is a way to lower the PH. The ideal would be :
Veg stage : CO2 and acid in the water.
Bloom stage : CO2 and no acid in the water
With RO water, no carbonate ions, so less fluctuation with O2, but not with CO2.
That's my mind.

[Jdzzl03]

So I should just start buying the RO water by the gallon, and then adding the calmag to it, test the ppm and then add the nutes and test again. Also other than buying a regulator/tank is there any other way to add c02 to the water that is not so hard on the wallet. Money is running kind of low so I am trying to make do with what I have until I can upgrade. Now the PH seems to have stabalized, I havent had to add anything the past two days and my ph seems to stay at about 5.5. Ladies are finally starting to look good again:D . Thanks for all the info

[Zandor]

CO² is better served filling the grow room then the root zone. Yes you can use CO² to help control the Ph of your rez but if money is low you are better off using the CO² to fill the whole grow area.

[GarlicToast]

Just my 2 cents, but I am new and ran into similar problems.

Get the RO water from your local hardware or grocery store. It works the best and its not expensive. Listen to Zandor about CalMag.

As far as what you have your PH at...

5.2-5.5 is WAY TOO LOW> I dont care what anybody says about this at this point. I am on grow 3 and when my PH was 5.8-6.0 plants were healthy as an OXE! When they were 5.5 or 5.4, then were DYING. 5.2 is WAY to acidic for what you are trying to do.

Go get Jorge Cerventes' grow book too. Local book store WILL have it. Dont buy it online...

PEACE!

[Zandor]

Just my 2 cents, but I am new and ran into similar problems.

Get the RO water from your local hardware or grocery store. It works the best and its not expensive. Listen to Zandor about CalMag.

As far as what you have your PH at...

5.2-5.5 is WAY TOO LOW> I dont care what anybody says about this at this point. I am on grow 3 and when my PH was 5.8-6.0 plants were healthy as an OXE! When they were 5.5 or 5.4, then were DYING. 5.2 is WAY to acidic for what you are trying to do.

Go get Jorge Cerventes' grow book too. Local book store WILL have it. Dont buy it online...

PEACE!

You may want to DL the Ph chart in the FAQ section. Look over the Ph range and then you can match the Ph to the nutrients swing the plant needs for that cycle of growth. It one way of making sure the plant gets the right amount of nutrients at the proper time in it's cycle. FYI.:thumbsup:

[Jdzzl03]

Thanks for all the info, you guys rock