Lumens per plant?

[Atom Bong]

How many lumens would it take for 1 plant to live a happy life? (surrounded in mylar)

[Zandor]

It's a short cycle plant it's not ment to live for ever. I have kept mothers for 5 years last time but it was hard to keep her healthy the last year.

The goal is give your plant 10,000 lumens of light or more. The more the better as long as the heat does not burn the plant.

[Atom Bong]

i dont mean as a mother plant, im just talking from seedling to harvest, kill it, lather. rinse. repeat

[karmaxul]

Depends on the size of the area. 1500 lumens per sq. foot. There are other factors aswell such as CO2, spectrum, and envirnment. (god damn I wrote you last night and my posts are still getting erased, WTF)

Mothers will last forever on 24 hours light. That is why 18/6 is no good. The hormones get burnt out.

[mobay]

damn karmaxul this is a new guy trying to get some help, ease up, atom bong started here 3 years after the WTC attacks, he has only 64 post since 2004 and you have 892 since last month, so let the guy ask all the questions he wants.

[mobay]

see people like you scare new guys away with your comments. so if you dont have anything productive to say keep quiet.

[turtle420]

see people like you scare new guys away with your comments. so if you dont have anything productive to say keep quiet.
Oooookayyyy....

What the fuck was that Mobay?

I fail to see where Karmaxul "scared" away the new guy.,... honestly... ???

<><><><>

In other news....

KARMAXUL,

What do yo mean "the hormones" get burnt out with 18/6 of light?

Why is 24/0 better for mothers?

Thanks,

-turtle420 :cool:
.

[Garden Knowm]

yeah what zandor said...
and 1500 lumens is NOT ENOUGH

i love you

[mobay]

turtle420 it sound like he was getting pissed cause he had to repeat himself. karmaxul if you wasnt pissed for re-typing your info to atom bong, my fault. but if were pissed return to post # 6.

[Jdog7000]

Mobay your right.

[mobay]

thank you jdog7000 when turtle responded i thought i made a mistake, but the way i read it was ( god damn i wrote you last night) talking to atom bong and the part ( and my posts are still getting erased, WTF) was going to the mods.

[postmandave]

some ones stressed out lol and i totaly agree 1500 is no were near enough,unless its a misprintand thats the way mobay

[calibabe]

damn karmaxul this is a new guy trying to get some help, ease up, atom bong started here 3 years after the WTC attacks, he has only 64 post since 2004 and you have 892 since last month, so let the guy ask all the questions he wants.


you got it wrong there , I think he was complaining about posts being deleted not mouthing off,so read his post properly, kiss, kiss calibabexxxxxx

[Zandor]

Depends on the size of the area. 1500 lumens per sq. foot. There are other factors aswell such as CO2, spectrum, and envirnment. (god damn I wrote you last night and my posts are still getting erased, WTF)

Mothers will last forever on 24 hours light. That is why 18/6 is no good. The hormones get burnt out.

Your numbers are way off dude. I have tried to keep mothers for ever but they did not keep. 5 years was to long and she died on her own. The clones were fine from her but she had problem recovering the last year.

1500 lumens per sqft is not even close, you must have lumens confused.

Plants do best with 10,000 lumens to each plant or more. The old rule of thumb is 50 watts for every sqft but in truth that is still a little low but works.

18/6 light cycle is fine it saves a little money on the power and gives the plant a little rest. There is no measurable difference between a plant vegged at 18/6 and under 24/0 light. Advanced nutrients answered this question many years ago under lab conditions.

[mobay]

1500 lumens ? shit theres 2300 lumens in a fluoresent light 125w. he has to be thinking 15000.

[Atom Bong]

Hah, im not that new to this, i was a member on overgrow until i woke up one sad morning, ive read just about everything any of these sites have brought to me and that was the one thing i never saw. SO have you guys made up your minds yet on what it is? im not asking lumens per square foot, im asking how many lumens would it take from start to finish, at its least while the plant still lives happy until harvest comes around and i murder it.

[BlueDragonSmoke]

a small HPS would do the trick ...start to finish if you had 2....lol...

[Atom Bong]

problem with hps, is heat and no room for a ballast, stealth grow goin on here

[britewire]

210W smartlight... I haven't got a clue where to buy one of those abroad.

[Zandor]

There are some CFL that give off some good light. Check some of BobBongs threads or harddons threads they like using CFL and look like they do fine with it.

[Garden Knowm]

CAlibabe -
welcome to heaven

CFL - not a big fan but....
I AM a beliver

and you can take a look for yourself...
that's just 1 cola

[GrowinGreen23]

So you're saying that the 1600 lumens light i just got is nto enough for one plant surrounded by white paper and foil? it's a 100 watt bulb because that's all they had in stock it's a CFL light....no good????

GrowinGreen23

[bluntman2006]

So you're saying that the 1600 lumens light i just got is nto enough for one plant surrounded by white paper and foil? it's a 100 watt bulb because that's all they had in stock it's a CFL light....no good????

GrowinGreen23A very general rule of thumb is that your garden needs 50 watts of HID lighting per square foot of illuminated area. This rule ignores the shape of your garden, so the following is really a better guide:

A 250 watt HID will illuminate a 2' x 2' garden.
A 400 watt HID will illuminate a 3' x 3' garden.
A 600 watt HID will illuminate a 3.5' x 3.5' garden.
A 1000 watt HID will illuminate a 4' x 4' garden.

[bluntman2006]

A very general rule of thumb is that your garden needs 50 watts of HID lighting per square foot of illuminated area. This rule ignores the shape of your garden, so the following is really a better guide:

A 250 watt HID will illuminate a 2' x 2' garden.
A 400 watt HID will illuminate a 3' x 3' garden.
A 600 watt HID will illuminate a 3.5' x 3.5' garden.
A 1000 watt HID will illuminate a 4' x 4' garden.also

WATTAGE -- COVERAGE
1000 watt - 4 to 5 feet across (1.3 to 1.5 meters)
600 watt - 3.5 feet (1 meter)
400 watt - 2.5 possibly 3 feet (.8 to .9 m)
250 watt - 2 feet (.6-.7 m)
175 watt - small, less than 2 feet :thumbsup:

[GrowinGreen23]

What is HID the light i have is a CFL any difference?

GrowinGree23

Thanks for the info so far

[karmaxul]

I said WTF cuz everyday some of my posts are erased. I posted another time on this page which took me 40 minutes to break down and it is no longer here either, any idea who is doing it, ZANDOR?

Basically it said, is 130 lumens per square foot is all you need.

A 1000watter say gets 118000 lumens produced. I cover a 100 sqft area with it. each foot thats 1180 lumens if they did not break down with distance like crazy. Since the avg area traveled is 3 feet thats 118 lumens per sqft with use of a track on less of a canopy.

Ask Zandor, if you are the only one who can erase posts, for the rest of it I dont feel like rewriting it. That is mean as hell though.

[frozentide]

BIG DIFFERENCE!!

HID=High Intensity Discharge

HID lights that are best for growing include Mercury Halide (MH) and High Pressure Sodium (HPS).

CFLs produce a lot less lumens than HIDs, hence why they require less watts, however this is also why you need A LOT more of them to create enough light output for the plants to grow. Plenty of ppl use CFLs and Fluoro tubes to grow plants however the yield and grow time is greatly affected. (i used CFLs and fertilizers and nutrients for my 1st grow and was unsatisfied so for my 2nd grow which is in the assembly process (check out my thread) I am aiming to use HID lights and completely organic means... afterall nature knows best, not artificial.)

The other downside to HIDs are they cost much more, produce much more heat and may be harder to find (atleast in the Ontario area I have found that if i want appropriate HIDs I have to go to a hydroponics store, Home Depot and the like are no good).

Hopefully this info was useful,
Best of luck with your grow,
froze

[frozentide]

Karmaxul: thats really *!$% to hear that your posts are being erased, and i dont understand why someone would do that, but there might also be one other possibility... maybe your computer/internet/cookies/something isnt sending the info, that your type, properly to the website/main server...

hopefully you can get it sorted out...

Bong: I was also once a member of the great OG.... but alas... that glorious site is gone... RIP Overgrow...

[postmandave]

http://www.progrow.co.uk/acatalog/fluorescent_lamps.html


http://www.progrow.co.uk/acatalog/fluorescent_systems.html

heres a couple of decent lights if heat is a problem


This is the ultimate in high output fluorescent light systems, fully loaded with Max Grow compact fluorescent lamps. This makes this unit slightly more expensive than with the Envirolite version and is for the customer who requires the very best quality. Side by side results prove that plants grown under Max Grow lamps out perform all other CFLâ??s!
High output! Low heat! Low running costs!
A Fluorescent light system that allows you to grow from start to finish with just one unit!
This fully adjustable reflector allows you to start seedlings under one 115w blue lamp then as the plants grow you can adjust the size of the reflector and add in a second 115w blue lamp. This gives you the perfect amount of light for the vegetative stage of growth. Then by adding the 180w red lamp you get a total of 400w of power for superb flower growth!
-By adjusting the size of the reflector and adding in extra lamps you can grow your plants from start to finish with one light unit!
-Made in the EU.
-Worlds first CFL lamps produced specifically for plant growth.
-PCB (printed circuit board) ballasts are a special production to fit the power consumption guaranteed by Max Grow.
-High light emission, lower power consumption.
-30% saving in power!
-Low heat output means lamps can be placed directly over plants.
-Perfect for cupboard set ups and small grow rooms!
-No ballast needed! Plugs directly into wall!
-100% PAR lighting.
-Fantastic results!
-Comes complete with 2 x 115w blue Max Grow CFL lamps and 1 X 180w Red Max Grow CFL lamp.
Dimensions: L = 500mm W =600mm (adjusted to its largest)
This unit can be supplied with any combination of Max Grow lamps. Please specify when placing your order if you require a different combination of Max Grow lamps than is listed above

[BlueDragonSmoke]

HID = metal halide or high preasure sodium
CLF = Fluoresent
to totaly different things

[mobay]

yes they are different but if there are people new at growing and dont have the money or if heat is a problem with summer coming up . cfl is the way to go. get that 1st grow under you belt and save some money for a 1000w system, exhaust fans, intake fans, grow box and etc. i myself like that 4 way 125w bulb holder. postmandave can you start a thread for new growers that dont have the money nor space for heat on fluorescent systems. DONT GO POSTAL ON ANYONE, lol

[Sinsemilla Jones]

...I posted another time on this page which took me 40 minutes to break down and it is no longer here either... Any post you made on this thread, even if deleted by a mod, should show up in the archive of this thread -
http://boards.cannabis.com/archive/index.php/t-56894.html
:cool:

It's quite easy to accidentally erase something without posting it.
You can accidentally hit preview instead of save, purposely hit preview and forget to save, or lately, you might well get a server busy page, and unless you use the back button, you'll lose your post.
:o

I really doubt Zandor or any other mod would start willy nilly deleting your posts without any reason whatsoever.
;)

[smoknjoe]

HID (high intensity discharge) lights include MH (metal halide) and HPS (high pressure sodium).

CFL (compact fluorescent) lights are not HID lights. I would think you need more light than what you have.

[Zandor]

I said WTF cuz everyday some of my posts are erased. I posted another time on this page which took me 40 minutes to break down and it is no longer here either, any idea who is doing it, ZANDOR?

Basically it said, is 130 lumens per square foot is all you need.

A 1000watter say gets 118000 lumens produced. I cover a 100 sqft area with it. each foot thats 1180 lumens if they did not break down with distance like crazy. Since the avg area traveled is 3 feet thats 118 lumens per sqft with use of a track on less of a canopy.

Ask Zandor, if you are the only one who can erase posts, for the rest of it I dont feel like rewriting it. That is mean as hell though.

Dude; I may disagree with you about many things but why would I delete posts of yours? You are no threat to me, I enjoy spirited debate.

Unless it was for sales of seeds, MOM or something like that. You have never done any of that to my knowledge.
Drop a link to me of the thread you said you posted in and it was removed.

Even if a mod deleted a post there is still a visible record that mod's can view of what was said and who removed it and why. That part I can check out and I would for anybody who asked.

My personal character is not in question I assume?

Just start a new thread and I will reply.

[karmaxul]

I am sure it was posted as I read it to make sure I did not mistype something as I do 80% of the time.

I am not saying it is you Zandor but was hoping you may know as you are the only Mod I know of. Your character is not in question and I have a great respect for you. The one in this thread was long and spoke of magic lumens

[britewire]

A 1000watter say gets 118000 lumens produced

Nowadays a 1000watter produces about 130.000 lumen, a 600watter about 95.000 lumen and a 400watter about 55.000 lumen

[turtle420]

I am sure it was posted as I read it to make sure I did not mistype something as I do 80% of the time.

I am not saying it is you Zandor but was hoping you may know as you are the only Mod I know of. Your character is not in question and I have a great respect for you. The one in this thread was long and spoke of magic lumens
Hey Karma...

I've got an idea... because this problem of yours has me thinking about it during the day...

Man, next time you post, save the page (nothing elaborate, I think File-->Save would do) and save the page. Save all your posts.

If in the future one of them disappears again, you can check and confirm that you actually DID post, and you had a POST NUMBER with a TIME and everything...

It can be a bug... or it can be... ???

Anyways, I don't think somebody is erasing your posts... but... taking it to the next paranoia level... who knows? Maybe you've got little green men inside your computer... you know... changing bits and bytes and stuff.

KuL, I'm joking 'bout the green men. But, yeah, I think it's a good idea if you save when you post.

Best K,

-turtle420 :cool:
.

[Zandor]

I am sure it was posted as I read it to make sure I did not mistype something as I do 80% of the time.

I am not saying it is you Zandor but was hoping you may know as you are the only Mod I know of. Your character is not in question and I have a great respect for you. The one in this thread was long and spoke of magic lumens

Do you have a link maybe? Even a deleted post is viewable still to the mod team. What thread was it in that would help.

[karmaxul]

Zandor this one had two that went missing. I know I went back and edited one but it really doesnt matter I will just post them again

Turtle I hope them little green men did not get in the laptop, I see the little bastards running around the house all day. I have yet to catch one, but I hear they grant wishes so I will keep trying. I am thinking a squirel trap and some cheese.

[Garden Knowm]

KARMA.. did you actually see your post go up.. I have finished posts and clicked to send them.. and they never make it.. I dont know what happens
...

it is rare but it has happened to me 10 times...

[Zandor]

There are NO deleted posts in this thread.

I can only assume that your session timed out or when you posted the server was busy and timed out. NO deleted postes here dude sorry. I'm not messing with you either.

Where else would you like me to check for you?

[Atom Bong]

Well i have 1 CFL right now, im getting 2 more, and i plan on getting one of those Smartlights. This is a computer case grow, right now lighting is 20/4 and i want to flower it early to keep it small, i dont mind getting small yields, i just want something! If this works i will be doing 2 or 3 at a time... any idea on when to start flowering to keep these bitches under 22" also, would a bonzai be possible to save some height? maybe even a scrog...and since im keeping it small, how big of a pot should i go to? since pot size restricts over all height....right?

[GrowinGreen23]

Yeah i'm with Atom Bong i'm just starting out, actually have a bunch of other seeds germinated today, i'm very limited for space and money so i have the one 100watte CFL bulb now. Looking to get somethign now, nothing huge. What is a better bulb i can get at Home depot or a local store that would be able to help me out? And a flowering time might be when?

Thank Guys

[Atom Bong]

well they have a red spectrum smartlite like that oher guy mentioned i dont know where to pick one up locally im in Connecticut, that woul help out too...

[karmaxul]

Thanks zandor much love must be a glitch. In the future I will just back up any I spend alot of time on.

AtomBong have you seen the infusion 200watt circle CFLs from the neatherlands?

[Atom Bong]

indeed i have, but how am i supposed to get one over here without dealing with the web to get it...also could you answer my other question on how i can keep a plant small and such....

[karmaxul]

I keep plants small by twisting the stem back and forth.
You can also take off a fan leaf or two when they are just emerging off the top to create shorter node spacing.
Some just flower at 4 inch clones
A higher auxin concentration produces stouter growth and more nodes

Its internet only at this point for them but you could send an international money order from the post office. under 700 dollars are 3.40usd in America.

[snow owl]

Seedlings and Clones = 300 lumens
Veg growth = 2500 lumens
Flowering = 10,000 lumens (remember expoential loss/ft rule, lower buds count too!)

[Atom Bong]

How can i increase the auxin concentration?

[karmaxul]

Thrivealive or superthrive I would guess have about 600ppm af auxins. I just ad one to two drops per gallon. Thrive alive green is all organic and red is not and has tablesalt in it for some reason but makes plants a bit shorter then green. I am guessing on the auxin consentration. I am going to be putting out a dry version of it as it breaks down less with storing and mine has 600ppm of auxins so I am thinking theres do to. Same process. The liquid I can get is the same numbers aswell.

Average composition:
Solubility: > 99.0%
PH 8-10
Moisture 1-5%
Crude protein 6-8%
Organic matter .>45%
Alginic acid 10-20%
Mannitol 4-7%
Nitrogen 1.0-1.5%
Phosphorus:0.5-1.5%
Potassium 16-21%
Iron 0.2-0.4%
Calcium 0.15-0.20%
Sulphur 1.0-3.0 %
Magnesium 0.2-0.9 %
Total amino acid: 1.5-3.5% Essential trace elements:
Cytokinin & gibberellin: 600ppm-800ppm
(Natural hormone)
Copper 1-6ppm
Vitamin: >600ppm
Zinc: 50-200ppm
Manganese 5-12ppm
Molybdenum 1-5ppm
Boron: 16-24ppm
Nickel: 1-3ppm
Selenium: 2-3ppm
Plumbum: <10ppm
Hg: < 5ppm
Co: < 5ppm
Cd: < 5ppm

Thats mine but I think theirs are about the same

[GrowinGreen23]

Karmaxul this will sound stupid but do you have a site that shows what the fan leave is? Don't want to assume anything

Snow Owl you need somethign like the HID lights ro somethign to produce enough lumens even for one plant?

Sorry for the inconvience with some of my stupidy

GrowinGreen23

[karmaxul]

GrowinGreen23 meet my friend www.google.com.
Its the larger leaf with a bit of a stem, tastes like chicken.

[GrowinGreen23]

Yeah well i thought i might ask you guys here 1st if it was n't a huge deal, I found this on google though

"If your plant is growing under an artificial light source and the fan leaves are not receiving much light, you may be tempted to cut them away. This is not a good idea. Fan leaves produce sugar that is used in bud production. Cutting away the fan leaves may cause bud growth to stunt, resulting in a smaller harvest."

GrowinGreen23

[karmaxul]

Thats a good fact and is true.

[Garden Knowm]

GROWIN... thats some good shit..
cutting fan leaves is NOT smart.. 99% of the time

[GrowinGreen23]

Yeah i thought that KarmaXul was saying that it was good to trim them to keep them small but i didnt' knwo that it would effect the yield that much

Thanks guys

[karmaxul]

For mothers it is a good to an extent. Also if you wish to grow a single cola from the ground up there are some different techniqes.I dont trim them once they get over half the size of a finger nail.

[Atom Bong]

so when are you saying is a good time to trim a fan leaf to make this 1 cola plant...

[karmaxul]

Got a picture? If you throw it into bud under six inches it will be a single cola. I would only trim the fans and grow single cola with more clones then you can use for the space

[Atom Bong]

karmaxul do you have aim? im me at SchmeigalCakes if you do

[run11129]

So you're saying that the 1600 lumens light i just got is nto enough for one plant surrounded by white paper and foil? it's a 100 watt bulb because that's all they had in stock it's a CFL light....no good????

GrowinGreen23

ouch you better check that again, I have 55w cfl 's that are 4000 lumens each. if it is 1600 invest in a better light, lumens are what count not watts from what i have read, but i am new so i may just get my post ripped to shreds lol

[Dexter007]

What is HID the light i have is a CFL any difference?

GrowinGree23

Thanks for the info so far
cfl has nearly no heat,and cfl i good for small area(small tent or growbox) hid s are good for bigger rooms