Why the Terrorists Have Already Won

[KoRnStaR]

They attacked us because they didn't like our freedoms. They hate what our country is about, and everything we stand for. The freedoms we have, the different backgrounds of people and beliefs in this country. Our normal lives with our everyday freedoms.

We responded with a "War on Terror". A flawed war to fight in the first place that isn't winnable. We've sacrificed our freedoms for more protection. And that's exactly why they're winning.

Face it guys, ever since 9/11 things haven't been the same.

In exchange for "protection", we've said goodbye to some of our very own freedoms.

Racial profiling, the Patriot Act -- just two prime examples.

This is what they wanted -- Osama knew he couldn't break this country down in terms of population as a whole and even challenge our military. But ever since 9/11, we've had to trade in some of our own freedoms that they've hated and despised more then anything.

And here we are now.

The war is still going on with not much progress being made.

People are dying.

We still haven't captured Osama.

Racial profiling hasn't gone away.

They're winning.

[JBlaze82]

911 wasnt terrorists...it was our own government

[KoRnStaR]

911 wasnt terrorists...it was our own government

...

This thread went over your head apparently.

[JBlaze82]

no it didnt go over my head. Bush is a power hungry bitch, he figured what the hell ill destroy the twin towers, blow a piece out of the pentagon and ill blame it on terrorists so i have a reason to go over to afghanistan and iraq.

[imagoober]

This thread went over your head apparently.
LOL
Blaze you sound retarded just thought id point that out! bush hasnt done eveything right but hey you cant make everone happy thats impossible, as for the terrorists, fuck them i hope we killem all! i happen to agree with bush on the war, maybe not how he went about it but he has the right idea!

[mrdevious]

No offense man, but I can't believe you (or anybody) actually buys that shit Bush is selling that terrorists are just attacking America because they "hate freedom." If that were the case there's other nations out there that are a lot more free, but this is certianly a good method of winning over the american public by making it an issue of their most valued part of US society.

[zephyrinne]

This whole administration is one big fark up. But it's just one big train wreck that you just have to watch. I'm curious to see how much more Bush farks up this country in the next couple years. The republicans can no longer blame the democrats about anything bad happening in government.. and that's what I want to see.

Maybe the American public will wisen up, stop following this corrupt administration like blind sheep, and actually grow a freaking brain. Stop listening to everything they tell you on CNN and FoxNews. But that won't happen cause everyone is too worried about gay marriage and abortion.. and Bush is out to stop both. Just so long as Bush preaches morality, hate for homos, and religion, he'll keep that 30% loyalty base that he has.

I didn't vote for him in 2004...

[justinsane]

man i choose not to give a shit.

i live life how i want, i feel happy that i dont choose to learn about whats going on in the world. - because its ALL negative -

i live for today, for what i believe in.
because in the end, you are you, you are not your country

[soxsuk6432]

no it didnt go over my head. Bush is a power hungry bitch, he figured what the hell ill destroy the twin towers, blow a piece out of the pentagon and ill blame it on terrorists so i have a reason to go over to afghanistan and iraq.
Yes, but you still missed the point in the first place. He said the war is what Osama wanted. There is a war no matter how it started he feels the war is what Osama Bin Laden wanted, so yes, this thread did go over your head.
I'm guessing you saw Loose Change. Whether he did plan the Twin Tower attacks or he didn't, that movie isn't the only thing you should base your opinion on. (If you didn't base your opinion of Loose Change don't mind this part)
I personally believe that Osama Bin Laden attacked the Twin Towers but it wasn't because he's jealous of our freedoms. I think it's because the U.S. treats third world countries bad.

[Weeden]

Ugh, I know. Its sick how we treat other countries. Our foreign policy is totalitarian for fucks sake! Whenever a country goes into a revolution (because the majority of people are treated like shit and they want a change) we step in and stop it. Why? The current gov't over there helps us, so we help them. Its sick.

Not to mention that we're undemocratic as hell. The only people who have a voice in the gov't are the folks with the money who can sponser their favorite politician. The common people have pretty much no say in anything.

Honesty, I wish that the south won the civil war and became a separate nation. They can have fucking Bush for their president. Goddamn backwards redneck hick bullshit.

[bedake]

to me life is the same, except we have less freedom now since this wacky ass "patriot act" was passed, talk about a new type of neomcarthyism, name something the patriot act and label anyone who doesnt vote for it a terrorist support FUCK THAT SHIT! times like these remind me of the 50s where america sent spies against homosexuals cause we thought they were gonna take over america

I never supported the war, the day it happened kids in school were all like man im gonna go join the army and kill me some Arabs i wish i could join right now! (im dead serious im actually quoting someone)

I didnt even think we would go to war, i called them all idiots for thinking we would actually wage a war against a group of 'terrorists' i mean come on, does it really make sense to wage a war when you were the aggression against the country was done by 8 or however many people there were?

[imagoober]

No offense man, but I can't believe you (or anybody) actually buys that shit Bush is selling that terrorists are just attacking America because they "hate freedom." If that were the case there's other nations out there that are a lot more free, but this is certianly a good method of winning over the american public by making it an issue of their most valued part of US society.
i never said that i beleaved what bush said i just beleave his actions on terrorists are right, i even said hes not right on everything!


Maybe the American public will wisen up, stop following this corrupt administration like blind sheep, and actually grow a freaking brain. Stop listening to everything they tell you on CNN and FoxNews. But that won't happen cause everyone is too worried about gay marriage and abortion.. and Bush is out to stop both. Just so long as Bush preaches morality, hate for homos, and religion, he'll keep that 30% loyalty base that he has.
ok no cnn or fox, fine what the hell do you listin to Fahrenheit 911, like thats any better shit i cant go make a movie if i had the funding, maybe an anti war or pot one doesnt make it true! all of us on this forum should understand that! maybe you base it on you gut instint and personal feelings? so you didnt vote for him in 04 what about 00.


I personally believe that Osama Bin Laden attacked the Twin Towers but it wasn't because he's jealous of our freedoms. I think it's because the U.S. treats third world countries bad.
i agree but i think that they also have there own problems that cant be blamed on us, hurting innocent people is wrong and they do it all the time, if i went over there and was found id be killed and i dont represent my gov. ive done nothing to them and they have no right to attack us. stoping them before they attact us sounds like a just cause to me. i do think that our troops need to pull out so they can build there own country and run it the way they want!
there are many thing that our country does wrong and many thing right but hey bush won, if you want to do someting start buy changing law, gov not complain on a forum it does nothing!

[Euphoric]

America is not free. In fact, it's just the opposite. We have the worlds largest prison population per capita. This is the land of chains, rules and zombies.
The arabs are just pawns of their religon just like we are pawns of the state. Who's controlling the peices? And why do they suck so bad?

Legalize all drugs and stop having war for fun before we're all dead

[Weeden]

ok no cnn or fox, fine what the hell do you listin to Fahrenheit 911, like thats any better shit i cant go make a movie if i had the funding, maybe an anti war or pot one doesnt make it true! all of us on this forum should understand that! maybe you base it on you gut instint and personal feelings? so you didnt vote for him in 04 what about 00.

Dude, any news is biased as hell. The American news (mostly) only shows what will help our gov't. Take a look at some of the news from other countries. You will find out just how sick we really are.

We ARE the ones who started this war. We never respected the Arab religion. I mean, we have military encampments set up on their friggen holy ground! We don't respected them, so its no surprise that we are seen as the enemy.

[zephyrinne]

ok no cnn or fox, fine what the hell do you listin to Fahrenheit 911, like thats any better shit i cant go make a movie if i had the funding, maybe an anti war or pot one doesnt make it true! all of us on this forum should understand that! maybe you base it on you gut instint and personal feelings? so you didnt vote for him in 04 what about 00.

if you want to do someting start buy changing law, gov not complain on a forum it does nothing!

There is such a thing as looking up news and facts online instead of relying on the media spin that you see on Fox News all the time. Yeah, I watched Farenheit 9/11... two freaking years ago. Not that it changed how I already felt about this administration. It's all fact that Bush's approval rating is in the thirties and more and more people are disapproving of his job performance and the quagmire he's gotten us into in Iraq. You do realize that our troops will be there for YEARS... now that we went to war on false intelligence. WMDs? What happened to those? Oh yeah... once they didn't find them they had to make up another bullshit lie about 'liberating and freeing the Iraqi people.' Come on now... it's all crap. This isn't just a republican thing either.. democrats voted to go to war too.

Oh yeah... I wasn't old enough to vote in 2000 just for your information. If I were, I wouldn't have voted for Bush. :thumbsup:

[Fengzi]

I agree with Kornstar. And I really can't believe Bush had anything to do with 9/11. I will say that the piece of shit has shamelessly used 9/11 to further his own agenda. But was he actually behind 9/11? No way.

Another example of how the terrorists are winning is this new sensistivity to Muslims. When they have a news story, on U.S. tv, about the Danish Muslim cartoons they don't show the cartoon without blurring it first. Aparrently one public school, with a large percentage of Muslim students, in Minnesota is considering banning art classes beacuse some Muslims find drawing humans or animals offensive. WTF! America, Land of the Free. Unless of course, that freedom might be a bit offensive to some Muslims. Fuck that!

[zephyrinne]

I agree with Kornstar. And I really can't believe Bush had anything to do with 9/11. I will say that the piece of shit has shamelessly used 9/11 to further his own agenda. But was he actually behind 9/11? No way.
!


You hit the nail on the head. Bush has used 9/11 ever since it happened to further his agenda. I mean, listen to his SOTU addresses every year since it happened. If you watched the presidential debates in 2004, you would see that during almost every one he brought up Sept. 11, terrorism, freedom, WMDs, peace... how many times does he use these words in EVERY speech that he's given? He's playing on the fears of most Americans... and it's just not right.

[knave666]

Speaking from a non-American point of view, what the fuck was your country thinking when they re-elected that twat? Tony Blairs a knobend, but compared to bush hes practically a saint. And your foreign policys are a joke and your news is just so biased its ridiculous. I've watched some of your news channels, and they don't really tell you fuck all about what is happening in the rest of the world.

Seriously, get your acts together, start voting and don't let any Bush-esque murdering rednecks back into office. The rest of the world is either laughing at you, or plotting to blow your asses up. Wat does that tell you?

[Flesh420]

Bush want people to be affraid. So he uses all of this terriorist bs to run this country the way he wants and hes getting away with it. Im sure our gov had some involvment in 9/11 no matter what anyone says theres all kinds of give aways. But people choose to belive that it was all osama and what not.

The solution is simple, we need to over throw this corrupt government and do what george washington had invisiond for this country. Not to bully other countries and shit this is just a prime example of what the UN has in store and what there intent is. Cant people in this country read between the lines?

[tadaa]

no it didnt go over my head. Bush is a power hungry bitch, he figured what the hell ill destroy the twin towers, blow a piece out of the pentagon and ill blame it on terrorists so i have a reason to go over to afghanistan and iraq.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You need medication for paranoia.

[snikitysnak]

first off, even though he's making one bad decision after another, Bush definitely had nothing to do with 9/11. Whether or not our intelligence agencies had information regarding the attacks prior to the event, that's a different questions, and i'm betting to guess that there was some, but maybe it didn't reveal the whole picture, but i could be wrong. another thing is that even though they probably had some intelligence, it doesn't necessarily mean that they informed the president. remember, before 9/11, communication between agencies wasn't exactly top-notch.

In response to the original post: Al Qaeda and Bin Laden definitely were not doing this to rob American's of their "freedoms." they could care less about the american people, they did this much much different reasons. the only reason they even acknowledge the average-joe is because they use innocent deaths as a tool to attack our governmnet. if you read the fatwas issued by bin laden, he gives very specific reasons as to why they are attacking: soldiers (infidels) on sacred soil is unacceptable, he feels that America is cheating the middle east out of money by forcing lower oil prices (and we are), the fact that we back Israel, etc...

What you have to remember is that these extremist muslims truly believe they are acting on orders from their God to rid the world of infidels. you can equate it to the christians during the crusades. unfortunately, these extremists seem to refuse any type of negotiation whatsoever. the only way we will ever stop "terrorism" by this group is to totally eradicate them or if non-extremist muslim's put a stop to it from the inside.

[lemonboy]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You need medication for paranoia.I think it's a bit rude to suggest our friends go on medication for pursuing truth outside of the mainstream. Is our past not filled with evil men that have done evil things? Have the majority of these men not accomplished their evils within full view of public opinion? Are we really that naive to think it could never happen here at home?

[zephyrinne]

Speaking from a non-American point of view, what the fuck was your country thinking when they re-elected that twat? Tony Blairs a knobend, but compared to bush hes practically a saint. And your foreign policys are a joke and your news is just so biased its ridiculous. I've watched some of your news channels, and they don't really tell you fuck all about what is happening in the rest of the world.

Seriously, get your acts together, start voting and don't let any Bush-esque murdering rednecks back into office. The rest of the world is either laughing at you, or plotting to blow your asses up. Wat does that tell you?


I agree 100%. I know the rest of the world thinks bad of Bush, as do I. But don't blame all of the American people. There are some of us who saw past Bush's cowboy-esque, good 'ole boy bullshit, and voted against him. But as I said in a previous post, nothing will change until the American people stop following this administration like blind sheep. And who's to say the government didn't have any part in September 11? I've read many articles, seen many videos, that at least make me question what happened on that day. At least there are people out there questioning the government. And it just amazes me that people consider those of us who question "traitors or un-American."

[Casper]

Hey KoRn, do you play Madden and use the Steelers????????

[Shelbay]

Ugh, I know. Its sick how we treat other countries. Our foreign policy is totalitarian for fucks sake! Whenever a country goes into a revolution (because the majority of people are treated like shit and they want a change) we step in and stop it. Why? The current gov't over there helps us, so we help them. Its sick.

Not to mention that we're undemocratic as hell. The only people who have a voice in the gov't are the folks with the money who can sponser their favorite politician. The common people have pretty much no say in anything.

Honesty, I wish that the south won the civil war and became a separate nation. They can have fucking Bush for their president. Goddamn backwards redneck hick bullshit.
What are you talking about the South for?? What is with that crap?? If the South had won the war we wouldn't be governed by the Feds! That is what the start of the war between states was really about...not slavery..I don't know where you are from but I am sure you know I am from the South and we don't all want him here ty very much...read up on your history before you start the same old tired sterotype about Southerners! Now we get the blame for Our Commander-In-Chief trials and tribulations?! And another fyi...the South does not have the power so you need to look further okay....we are not the big money...what a joke.

[Breukelen advocaat]

First of all, although Texas is his home, Bush is not a technically a "Redneck". His family is firmly East-Coast, New England WASP. He is my 12th cousin, and he's distantly related to many more Americans - including Kerry.

Bin Laden and others like him are insane. Their plan is to cause the world's major powers to destroy each other, and possibly annihilate the planet with nuclear weapons. The result, in his view, is that this will allow allah to start over so that Muslims can control everything. If they are killed, they get their virgins and the rest of the false promises that this religion (and others) spouts.

We should have no dealings with the middle east, and if Israel had any sense they'd relocate.

Personally, I believe that there is something about that part of the world, or their diet, that fosters insanity.

[Shelbay]

I guess that is why I am in the middle so to speak...I used to think President Bush was really having to play hardball like he has but then the port deal happened...I still don't get that one....and the word redneck originated from farmers that worked out in the sun all day and when they came in they would take their shirts off and hence "redneck"....

[Breukelen advocaat]

I guess that is why I am in the middle so to speak...I used to think President Bush was really having to play hardball like he has but then the port deal happened...I still don't get that one....and the word redneck originated from farmers that worked out in the sun all day and when they came in they would take their shirts off and hence "redneck"....

The black slaves started calling the white slaves (a polite word is "indentured servents") "Rednecks". The little-known story of the slavery of many whites in America has been suppressed. The Redneck Manifesto, by Jim Goad, is an excellent, entertaining, informative, book. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684831139/002-1892682-8666407?v=glance&n=283155

[TakeFlight]

I think to really understand the "terrorists" you have to walk a mile in their shoes so to speak. Not saying that i am for terrorist or "soft on terrorism"

Their whole way of living is so far behind ours that im sure they are intimidated by us, especially when we barge in to steal oil and attack them and have a smug lookin fuck like GWB conspire it all. I can tell you i sure as fuck would be doing the same exact thing they are doing to anyone who came into my homeland and starting fucking shit up. I would be a "terrorist" so to speak. Right now they are going to plunge into a fullout civil war, not too long ago we had our own civil war(not for the same reasons) but when you look at their history and culture you have to realize they are just behind us in everyway possible. Id say pretty much they are being taken advantage of due to their lack of knowledge and understanding and being fed lies which they are lead to believe are true, and can you really blame them for that even though it doesnt justify what they do but come on....

I dont understand how anyone could believe anything the government says after being fooled and lied to so many times...Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me

[imagoober]

i think the government and the president have to much power but you cant blame them for using it we gave it to them and put then in there position of power. change the laws and rules and the govenment, then society, and politics with change.

[altagid]

I dont understand how anyone could believe anything the government says after being fooled and lied to so many times...Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me

Everyone lies sometimes. Especially when there are opposing interests. Its a necessary part of life. You dont go into a sulk over it and refuse to believe anything more - just be more careful and smarter about what you accept.

[TakeFlight]

Everyone lies sometimes. Especially when there are opposing interests. Its a necessary part of life. You dont go into a sulk over it and refuse to believe anything more - just be more careful and smarter about what you accept.


way to try and justify it :thumbsup: , you are a good little american arent you, id pat you on the head if i could, maybe give you a treat haha

[altagid]

way to try and justify it :thumbsup: , you are a good little american arent you, id pat you on the head if i could, maybe give you a treat haha
Actually a fairly large American.

I like to think for myself. I believe some of what the government tells me - some I disbelieve. I try to be smart about it. Its foolish to dismiss someone as a complete and utter liar just out of pique. Its smarter to learn how to filter, take good risks and avoid bad ones.

[Shelbay]

What is your viewpoint on the port deal altagid? I still don't understand why our LEADER would even admit if its true...that he didn't know about the deal until after the fact? I haven't really caught up on the news nationally so maybe I missed something that explains this..It's like you want to support him (President Bush) but he makes it hard sometimes..

[TakeFlight]

Actually a fairly large American.

I like to think for myself. I believe some of what the government tells me - some I disbelieve. I try to be smart about it. Its foolish to dismiss someone as a complete and utter liar just out of pique. Its smarter to learn how to filter, take good risks and avoid bad ones.


Yeah well im not suprised as most americans are large so yeah that makes you fit the description perfectly. Believe me im not saying i dont think for myself or that you dont but what im trying to say is that you dont really have any idea if what they are saying is a load of shit or not. How do you know if it or isnt bullshit???? Do you have a tap into the political pipeline???? Just because you dont believe it doesnt take away the fact that they are making you out to look like a fucking fool to the world, just because you dont believe it doesnt take away the fact then they still think of you as a fool by telling you it in the first place.

[altagid]

Shelbay. I dont watch TV so I am not up on the latest. I dont see what all the fuss is about. This country is a strong ally of ours. They have no motivation to do the work badly. The workers will be almost entirely Americans and unionized. Anyone else will require a visa. I dont see the problem. I think the politicians are just exploiting xenophobia. I am probably completely off the point here :)

Sigh: I hope I dont lose any friends over this. I am not exactly flavor of the week as it is LOL

[altagid]

I tend not to see the US government as a vast monolithic conspiracy bent on misleading its population. I think sometimes the government and our interests are the same and sometimes they are not. and sometimes when they are not the government feels it can get away with lying if it needs to - sometimes it cant do much lying even if it would like to. so I think abou the circumstances just as I would if I were dealing a person. Sometimes trusting and sometimes wary - depending.

[TakeFlight]

i think that isnt very wise to think of the government as if you were dealing with a person, money +power +greed = deadly combination
but i guess there isnt much people like me and you can do.....or is there?

correct me if im wrong but lately hasnt the government been excluding congress????

[Shelbay]

Shelbay. I dont watch TV so I am not up on the latest. I dont see what all the fuss is about. This country is a strong ally of ours. They have no motivation to do the work badly. The workers will be almost entirely Americans and unionized. Anyone else will require a visa. I dont see the problem. I think the politicians are just exploiting xenophobia. I am probably completely off the point here :)

Sigh: I hope I dont lose any friends over this. I am not exactly flavor of the week as it is LOL
haha...well you explained it in a way my brain understands now....My husband keeps telling me there are things we don't need to know....to trust them..but anyway I was just curious how you viewed that one. You have mail.

[altagid]

:stoned: thanks Angel. Very stooooned - must sleep:stoned:

[KoRnStaR]

No offense man, but I can't believe you (or anybody) actually buys that shit Bush is selling that terrorists are just attacking America because they "hate freedom." If that were the case there's other nations out there that are a lot more free, but this is certianly a good method of winning over the american public by making it an issue of their most valued part of US society.

Not Bush, 9/11 Commissions report.

[imagoober]

Yeah well im not suprised as most americans are large so yeah that makes you fit the description perfectly.

oh so your saying were large cause of a stupid stereotype? somethinkg you read or heard on tv come on! do you live in the us, if not i think you need to shut up cause that was just an idiot responsce; having nothing to do with the subject at hand.


Believe me im not saying i dont think for myself or that you dont but what im trying to say is that you dont really have any idea if what they are saying is a load of shit or not.

well you may think for yourself but what are you basing your conclusion on, just cause you can think doesnt mean your coming up with the right answer!


How do you know if it or isnt bullshit???? Do you have a tap into the political pipeline???? Just because you dont believe it doesnt take away the fact that they are making you out to look like a fucking fool to the world, just because you dont believe it doesnt take away the fact then they still think of you as a fool by telling you it in the first place.

you know, that to the U.S. most other countrys look like bunch of idiots! it works both ways! how do you know your information is correct about us and your own country(?) or government, do you have a pipeline?? you arguement sounds like bs to me.


: I hope I dont lose any friends over this. I am not exactly flavor of the week as it is LOL

lol i know what you mean its just like people to get mad for an honest opinion!
though i happen to agree with yours!

[KoRnStaR]

Hey KoRn, do you play Madden and use the Steelers????????

Yeah...wtf? Who is this? lol

[Myth1184]

Israel is Proof Positive Racial Profiling Works, they search ALL muslims that get onto their Airliner, and they have not had 1 single Hijacking since.

[TakeFlight]

oh so your saying were large cause of a stupid stereotype? somethinkg you read or heard on tv come on! do you live in the us, if not i think you need to shut up cause that was just an idiot responsce; having nothing to do with the subject at hand.



well you may think for yourself but what are you basing your conclusion on, just cause you can think doesnt mean your coming up with the right answer!



you know, that to the U.S. most other countrys look like bunch of idiots! it works both ways! how do you know your information is correct about us and your own country(?) or government, do you have a pipeline?? you arguement sounds like bs to me.



lol i know what you mean its just like people to get mad for an honest opinion!
though i happen to agree with yours!


Obviously you are a fucking moron, i do live in the US and it has the fattest population EVER, you dont know shit obviously


"well you may think for yourself but what are you basing your conclusion on, just cause you can think doesnt mean your coming up with the right answer!"

i dont know why you quoted me and had that response, doesnt make sense so why dont you think before you speak...errr...post fuckface, obviously your talking out of your ass, the habit most americans have

"you know, that to the U.S. most other countrys look like bunch of idiots! it works both ways! how do you know your information is correct about us and your own country(?) or government, do you have a pipeline?? you arguement sounds like bs to me."

I dont see you having a rebuttal to my statement so if you wanna play like that i can say the same thing about you, how do you know your information is correct, your arguement sounds like bs to me... what a fuckface.... if you dont want to get a response like this then dont reply to my posts anymore.... you are the typical shit eating dick licking american....while your down there why dont you go ahead and polish GWB nutsack...nuff said

[Shelbay]

The black slaves started calling the white slaves (a polite word is "indentured servents") "Rednecks". The little-known story of the slavery of many whites in America has been suppressed. The Redneck Manifesto, by Jim Goad, is an excellent, entertaining, informative, book. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684831139/002-1892682-8666407?v=glance&n=283155
Thanks for the link ..

[imagoober]

talking out of your ass,
like-wise fuckface, you shit eating dick licking american! you sound to stupid to hold a conversation with!

[psychocat]

Bush want people to be affraid. So he uses all of this terriorist bs to run this country the way he wants and hes getting away with it. Im sure our gov had some involvment in 9/11 no matter what anyone says theres all kinds of give aways. But people choose to belive that it was all osama and what not.

The solution is simple, we need to over throw this corrupt government and do what george washington had invisiond for this country. Not to bully other countries and shit this is just a prime example of what the UN has in store and what there intent is. Cant people in this country read between the lines?

Taliban put into power by US
Pinochet supported by the US
Dictators are fine as long as they help the US in some way.
The US interferes in too many countries and then when the shit hits the fan they blame everything else.
I agree man you should be taking care of shit back home instead of in other countries.

[TakeFlight]

oh so your saying were large cause of a stupid stereotype? somethinkg you read or heard on tv come on! do you live in the us, if not i think you need to shut up cause that was just an idiot responsce; having nothing to do with the subject at hand.


after i read that i realized you are a fucking douchebag,it doesnt have anything to do with the subject at hand but it proves you either are just defending your own fatass or you think americans arent fat lazy slobs and therefore it disproves your credibility, either way i dont see why you defend this straight up stupid bias country like it was your mother, hey if you wanna go do some good why dont you go join the military, ha:thumbsup:

[SyR1S]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194&q=loose+change+9%2F11

[TakeFlight]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194&q=loose+change+9%2F11

You dont know the credibility of this guy so who really knows, although i wouldnt be suprised, the guy seems a bit whack

[altagid]

What are you talking about the South for?? What is with that crap?? If the South had won the war we wouldn't be governed by the Feds! That is what the start of the war between states was really about...not slavery..I don't know where you are from but I am sure you know I am from the South and we don't all want him here ty very much...read up on your history before you start the same old tired sterotype about Southerners!

What would you recommend to read on Southern History?

[Shelbay]

What would you recommend to read on Southern History?
You could google and find all kind of books and information that is not distorted about the war..I have actually read Slavery,Secession and Southern History-Robert Paquette..it would be a good one..and maybe you should try starting with A History of the South by Francis Butler Simkins..for the basic to start with...and Gone With The Wind of course. It just gets really tiresome when your a Southerner and know your history (as I am sure you know yours) and people can't get past the slavery part of that time..the war was not started because of slavery...and my post was in reply to a prior poster that said in a way he wished the South would have won the war and started with the traditional name calling of redneck and hick I believe and that we could have GW ...as I said if the South had won I am sure MJ would be legal now..slavery was evil and wrong but not ALL Southerners owned slaves..most didn't even own plantations..I think it was like 10% at the start of the war. If your truly interested in this I have books that are no longer published and have been out of circulation for a while..pc of course..but try google and if you want to actually read beyond the basics I can give you more...it is just irony that we still get ridiculed to this day but look at who put the Government in Power to control this Country and others...wasn't us...we tried fighting that..and I don't call it the civil war because it was anything but civil. It's long over with but read some truth about that war...they didn't just win the war they almost destroyed the South..yep won the war and humbled us. There is also a book called Old Tannehill..it is so realistic you can picture the union attack on the Tannehill Furnaces which were vital to the Confederacy. Tannehill is a State Park now and you should visit one day....talk about "feeling" ghosts of the past..it is an experience..there was not alot of killing that day just burning Tannehill and whatever was in their path..most everyone including the slaves had left before the Union arrived..it tells in the book about a Southern Woman named Mary Gordon Duffee was hiding in an attic when she overheard the order being given to destroy Tannehill..she rode her horse and walked 25 miles to warn of the attack so it was deserted when they arrived...okay I am stopping now..I get on this subject and I could talk and listen for days.

[altagid]

Theres a lot of books out there - most of them are crap IMO. I will look for Paquette's book - thanks! :thumbsup:

Civil wars tend to be the most vicious and nastiest of wars.

I actually have thought of going to Tannehill but I am not sure I speak the language. I have a couple of videos of an annual smithing meet at Tannehill - cannot understand what some of those guys are saying! LOL

[Shelbay]

Theres a lot of books out there - most of them are crap IMO. I will look for Paquette's book - thanks! :thumbsup:

Civil wars tend to be the most vicious and nastiest of wars.

I actually have thought of going to Tannehill but I am not sure I speak the language. I have a couple of videos of an annual smithing meet at Tannehill - cannot understand what some of those guys are saying! LOL
No way! You know about Tannehill??!! Now you have my interest lol:) You don't understand the Southern accent? lol...you understood me when we talked? When I visit NY and some of the NE States..I am asked to repeat myself at average 3 times before it is understood..I can go to LA and my friends have a bad habit of asking me to say "ice" & "sprite" just so they can laugh. Wow..you know about Tannehill...if you ever make it to the point you visit AL I'll take y'all to Tannehill..I didn't know you had that interest..well I am at a loss for words now..you like doing that to people don't you? :p If you want a copy of the book I will send you one..it even has a very rare pic in it of all 3 furnaces still standing and an old steam engine put in by Sanders in 1863....and your right most of the available books are crap but some are out that tells about the misconceptions,myths,lies etc...about that war...you really caught me off guard knowing about Tannehill....and your not a Southerner.;)

[altagid]

Angel, your recommendation is all I need. Ill see if I can find it. I know about Tannehill only because of the metalworking interest not because I know anything about the South.

As for comprehension: well these are very poor quality tapes and there is a lot of noisy machinery - plus the one old geezer that I really would have liked to understand had taken his teeth out and put them in his pocket before he picked up his hammer - I guess this was his standard work practice but that together with his accent and the noise I have no clue what he was saying.

Also once I happened to be in Georgia and stopped at a gas station to ask directions. There was a crowd of people in there and they all wanted to help and I couldnt make heads or tails of their instructions. But such nice people all of them! I had difficulty telling where one word ended and another started. One guy even followed me out to the car to explain that the others handnt gotten it quite right , I got that much but again the rest was a mystery. I fled , finally found a quiet spot to pull over and study the map. :)

[Shelbay]

Now you see..you said that in a nice way..not what you say but how you say it.:) You got a good dose of Southern Hospitality huh LMBO:thumbsup: haha..I bet you were totally confused lol.. I learned one thing about the old geezers though..those men are strong...the ones that do that kind of work..and alot of people in Alabama for some reason have no teeth or have dentures...I even see small children that have black rotten teeth at an early age...and its predominant in the South really..because I do travel and it doesn't seem to be that way in other states I have been through....one of my hangups I guess it could be called..I don't understand how people put thousand of dollars in clothes,jewelry,shoes etc...on but put no money in their mouth...anyway if you ever again need "help" with directions (lol) just call me and I will "decode" for you.:) You make me laugh altagid. Oh before I forget again..have you read the thread about the MMM in California? Please read it okay...and maybe you and your wife could go..I think my husband is going to say yes..I don't know though..we might need a translator if we meet and I start talking...haha..time for a good one now..you have me laughing.:)

[KoRnStaR]

CASPER -- do I know you?

[geonagual]

I believe that this war has a few different objectives:

Align or control the worlds oil
To show terrorists we mean business

Everything else is a smoke screen

If you want to fight a terrorist. You hunt em down one be one

You dont send a whole military to THEIR land and not expect for the people of that land and the surrounding areas not be pissed. We are breeding terrorist with this action.

GOOD JOB AMERICA

[angryhippie]

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.

Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1938


When the people fear the government you have tyranny.
When the government fears the people you have democracy.

[Casper]

CASPER -- do I know you?

We have never really communicated but I reconize you from MM! I don't even visit the boards over there anymore but my name is Lion Lifer!

[KoRnStaR]

We have never really communicated but I reconize you from MM! I don't even visit the boards over there anymore but my name is Lion Lifer!

Haha, yeah -- I remember your name.

You like that herb man?

[psychocat]

I believe that this war has a few different objectives:

Align or control the worlds oil
To show terrorists we mean business

Everything else is a smoke screen

If you want to fight a terrorist. You hunt em down one be one

You dont send a whole military to THEIR land and not expect for the people of that land and the surrounding areas not be pissed. We are breeding terrorist with this action.

GOOD JOB AMERICA

I have to agree in part, the terrorists were put into power in Afghanistan (Taliban) with the help of the CIA under the pretext of helping them repel the Russian invaders.

[Shelbay]

I believe that this war has a few different objectives:

Align or control the worlds oil
To show terrorists we mean business

Everything else is a smoke screen

If you want to fight a terrorist. You hunt em down one be one

You dont send a whole military to THEIR land and not expect for the people of that land and the surrounding areas not be pissed. We are breeding terrorist with this action.

GOOD JOB AMERICA
America? America is still my country and not ALL Americans are responsible for our Governments actions whether "right" or "wrong"....that's why I wonder if there is "civilization"..books..not myths but truth..a hundred years from now..will we as americans be viewed as Germans were after Hitler? America is already being viewed/compared to the SS Germany years...wonder how many Americans will be castigated by others while being taken out of their homes in the middle of the night by their "own" government? The truth is millions of people have opinions on THIS war but nothing is being done to question,challenge our current government..and when the questions do start..they very quickly go away....I really thought I was just paranoid until I started coming to this board..I may not agree with the posters all the time but alot of you make me and others think outside of the box so to speak when we become lazy and don't want to think but should be using our active brain cells.

[Shelbay]

Sorry about double post but I couldn't edit...the rest of what I was wanting to say/ask is that my main problem is the thousands of American Men/Women that are being flown home "under the cover of darkness" broken physically and mentally...the dead being flown home...if America has the knowledge and power to find and stop the true threats/terrorists why not just do what needs to be done and finish it..this war is like slow torture for some Americans...and the innocent people in Iraq being destroyed by this war also...when is it going to end and this Country go forward again? We can't even get a plant legalized..we have become a joke thats not funny anymore...what can an American legally do these days to make a difference? I don't know..and haven't seen any positive posts on activism for real. Yes there are MANY people and countries that would love to see America brought to her knees so I hope our Government is really doing what is in our best interest..but they need to finish what they started and bring Americans on home....and legalize MJ...

[geonagual]

Sorry about double post but I couldn't edit...the rest of what I was wanting to say/ask is that my main problem is the thousands of American Men/Women that are being flown home "under the cover of darkness" broken physically and mentally...the dead being flown home...if America has the knowledge and power to find and stop the true threats/terrorists why not just do what needs to be done and finish it..this war is like slow torture for some Americans...and the innocent people in Iraq being destroyed by this war also...when is it going to end and this Country go forward again? We can't even get a plant legalized..we have become a joke thats not funny anymore...what can an American legally do these days to make a difference? I don't know..and haven't seen any positive posts on activism for real. Yes there are MANY people and countries that would love to see America brought to her knees so I hope our Government is really doing what is in our best interest..but they need to finish what they started and bring Americans on home....and legalize MJ...

I know. Whatever happened to the protests of the late 60's/early 70's for Vietnam. Those protesters had a huge influence on stopping that war.

I think america's youth and for that matter everyone else. Have been desensitized (sp?) by television and movies and think that the war and everything else that goes on in the world is part of a movie script and they can just sit back and eat their popcorn.

[Casper]

Haha, yeah -- I remember your name.

You like that herb man?

Hell yeah!! It sucks in Detroit right now I can only find average to bullshit buds, shit sucks in this City!!!

[psychocat]

I know. Whatever happened to the protests of the late 60's/early 70's for Vietnam. Those protesters had a huge influence on stopping that war.

I think america's youth and for that matter everyone else. Have been desensitized (sp?) by television and movies and think that the war and everything else that goes on in the world is part of a movie script and they can just sit back and eat their popcorn.

I have to agree that complacency is our enemies friend but when that enemy is our own goverment complacency will make prisoners of us all.

[weadboy420]

They attacked us because they didn't like our freedoms. They hate what our country is about, and everything we stand for. The freedoms we have, the different backgrounds of people and beliefs in this country. Our normal lives with our everyday freedoms.

We responded with a "War on Terror". A flawed war to fight in the first place that isn't winnable. We've sacrificed our freedoms for more protection. And that's exactly why they're winning.

Face it guys, ever since 9/11 things haven't been the same.

In exchange for "protection", we've said goodbye to some of our very own freedoms.

Racial profiling, the Patriot Act -- just two prime examples.

This is what they wanted -- Osama knew he couldn't break this country down in terms of population as a whole and even challenge our military. But ever since 9/11, we've had to trade in some of our own freedoms that they've hated and despised more then anything.

And here we are now.

The war is still going on with not much progress being made.

People are dying.

We still haven't captured Osama.

Racial profiling hasn't gone away.

They're winning.While I agree with your basic premiss, they don't hate us because of our freedom, they hate us because of our foreign policy. Until that changes it doesn't matter how many terrorists we kill, two more will fight to take each of their places.