Need some help please.. (pics included)

[Punk In Drublic]

Well I've did alot of searching trying to figure out what could be wrong with one of my plants. I came across so many different things that could be wrong, so I figured I'd ask here.

In the pics, you will see 2 plants. The left plant is a week or so older than the plant on the right. The right plant is the one I'm having the problem with. It seems that the lower leaves have some small brown spots. Now my camera won't zoom in close enough to get a clear pic, so I will try to describe the spots as best as I can. At first, they look a lot like dried up dirt on the leaves. They very small bumps and look brown and rusty. The leaves are very dry and crispy. I am only seeing this problem on the very bottom leaves. New growth is great, very green.

I just transplanted them into the 3 gallon pots about a week ago. I then fed the plant on the right, a half dose of Mexican bat guano and a couple drops of Superthrive per gallon of distilled water. It responded very well. Leaves perked up and new growth was fast. I have always used the same distilled water since they were babies. Once I noticed the spots on the bottom leaves, of the right plant, I decided to cut the nutes and just give her plain distilled water again, which I did last night. She responded very well.

I hope this is clear enough. In one of the pics, I made some arrows where the leaves are with the brown/rust spots.

Again, I'm sorry I cannot provide better pics. My camera is horrible.
Any suggestions would be great. I appreciate your help guys!

[Garden Knowm]

Are you over watering?

I like your OCTUPUS lighting...

Are your stems red...?

The good news is, that it looks like you are getting good solid continuous new growth.. it just seems a bit droopy...


love

[Punk In Drublic]

Thanks Gnowm. No, I don't think I'm over watering. I only water her when the soil is dry (I have a meter), and the plants are a bit droopy. Last week she got watered on Tuesday, then again on Saturday. She looks a bit droopy in the pic because she just had her watering. She always perks up real good when I water her.

The bad news is that the problem seems to be getting worse :( I don't really know what I should do yet. I'm seeing more spots on the leaves. Some are more yellowish/browish now and are starting as spots in the middle of the leaves.

Anymore suggestions would be great.

Thanks guys.


edit: No red in the stems, They are strong and green. They seem to shed alot and get fatter.

[cloudsurfer]

I'm wondering if the nutrient you are using is to strong?!.
I once needed to kill a male so I added pure nutrients and it caused rusty brown spots and the foliage went hard.

if you are using nutes then maybe try plain water or a water/epsom salt combo next feed.

Good Luck

[Punk In Drublic]

I went today and got a test to test my soil. Here's a couple pics of the results. It's the best pics I can get as my camera is a total POS. The blue looks a bit darker than it really is. According to the meter, it's between Sufficient and Adequate.

I hope this helps :( Anymore suggestions would be great. I'm thinking they have too much nutes as cloudsurfer mentioned :(

[Punk In Drublic]

Okay, I finally did the best I could and got some close up's of the problem. It seems to be getting worse :(

[HARDDON]

It is very difficult to diagnose.

If these problems appeared AFTER your transplant, then you can assume, most likely, you injured some roots, or, roots are having problems taking new soil.

I always use hormone transplant powder in the soil.

If I were you what I would do is:

1. Stop using distilled water. Why do people do this? It is great if the water has be RO'd AFTER the distillation process, but if not, you shouldn't use it.

Distilled water means all over its electrons have been boiled off and the water molecules contain essentially dead hydrongen atoms. Dead Water.

Also, ignore your soil pH because you need a much more accurate device than what you have used. Instead make sure the water is right at neutral..or 6.8.


2. I would get some schultz rooting hormone powder and add a nice thimble sized chunk of it and mix it with your next watering.

3. All those leaves will be dead in a while anyhow so as long as it doesnt get worse, you'll be fine. Sometimes the lower leaves get harmed when the roots tap into different soil.

4. While you say not their age, I dont think they look anywhere near needing nutes at this stage.

Very pretty indica there...you might wanna LET THEM stretch just a bit more. It'll help later on when you flower your tomatos.

[Punk In Drublic]

Thanks Hardon, I have a few questions...

After I transplanted her, she has almost doubled in size in the past week. She's growing VERY fast. If I damaged roots, would she still be growing so well?

I use distilled water because my tap water is horrible. So far, they have seemed to love it. Should I switch to bottled water instead?

To answer your question, the plants are around 5 weeks old.

Also, the problem is getting worse. It's beginning to spread to other leaves :( I don't really know what to do exactly. I don't know if she is needing more nutes, or if she has too many. I really don't want to lose her as I've put a TON of time into her.

I will try the rooting hormone like you suggested.

Thanks again for your help. Anymore suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting really worried here because it's spreading :(

[HARDDON]

If she has doubled in size, in a week, odds are she'll be just fine. You might wanna read my sticky on stress less transplanting and compare to how you did.

I assume, this started AFTER transplant...yes?

I would use RO water that is bottled over tap water but I would use chlorine free tap water over distilled water anyday.

Stop giving her nutes, use 6.8 -- 7.0 pH water and use some rooting hormone powder. In this case, the damage may already have been done and you are just now seeing the results.

As long as the top portions of the plant are fine, odds are this will pass.

Good luck.

[Punk In Drublic]

Thanks again Hardon. I just checked on them, and am starting to see the spots on the upper leaves :( They are forming in the middle of the leaf and look yellowish/browish. Almost looks like a burn to me. I'm sure it's not the lights because I can put my hand between them and I feel no heat. Should I give her a flush? It's really scaring me because I'm seeing more spots on more leaves :(

The new spots look pretty much just like the pic I took earlier that's attached.

I'm sure I have to do something soon to stop the spots :( Any suggestions?

[Garden Knowm]

HARDON - i love you

PUNK.... you are doing great.. and as hard on said, the plants look good...

You are missing something...... a nutrient.. something minor... maybe K... Although you said it started on the bottom.. correct?.. and NO red stems?

Potasium(K) is in heavy demand from a young growing plant... it may be your PH..

Like HArdon said... get your water at 6.8... to 7.0

When you say that your water is bad, what do you mean?

The only really bad tap water is water that has a PPM of over 220 straight from the tap...

And soil plants will be ok with this HARD water.. it is only aeroponic and hydro grows that will suffer... with such hard water...

I am not sure what HardON ment by stretching.. I wonder if he ment, "let her get taller.." or "let the nodes stretch and seperate"

Either way, I strongly disagree... with both thoughts... STRETCHING is a BIG NO NO....

And 90% of all growers should flower when their plants are short.. under 20 inches... there are exceptions....

Get your clones.. and then wait a week and then flower...

LOVE

[smoknjoe]

KNOWM and HARDDON...

Why are you suggesting to use water pHed to 6.8-7.0. I'm just curious because I've read so many times that 6.4 is the ideal pH, so I just started doing that, but now you have me second guessing!

Thanks,
joe.

[StickyFinger]

This is what i do for the tapwater issue... Take your water and pour it from 1

container to another and back and forth for a while making the water splash

bubble and swell as much as possible, this in effect should gas off most of

the chlorine form the water... Then what i usually do is put it in my spray

mister pump it up and shake it about. This puts alittle more oxygen in the

water and gasses off the remaining nasties. Also always use water at grow

room temp so as not to shock the plants.

Good luck with the grow. :)

[Punk In Drublic]

Wow, thanks alot for everyones help. I feel alot better this morning as I'm not seeing that many more spots on her. She's also respoding VERY well to LST.

Knowm,

I thought too that I was missing some type of nute. Did you see the soil test results I did that are posted above? The only one it looks SLIGHTLY low in is N (purple). The K (orange) seems to be somewhat in the middle of the scale. The P (blue) looks high to me. It seems to be a bit above the middle of the scale. What do you think? Should I still feed at a lower dosage?

Also, what I meant about my water is that it smells and taste horrible. Me and my wife won't even think about drinking it because it taste so much like chemicals and chlorine. For those reasons, I thought it wouldn't be good for my plants. Should I still try anyways and let it sit to let the chlorine get out?

Any about taking clones. I'm not sure that she's a female yet. I'm hoping she will show me her vagina soon :cool:

Sticky,

Thanks for the suggestions. I will give it a try for sure :)

Also, could anyone explain to me how to adjust the PH in my water? I know I can get a ph up/down test kit at the local fish store. Will this work?


Thanks again for everyones help. It is greatly appreciated. You guys sure do know how to settle down nerves :)

[HARDDON]

6.8 - 7.0 pH is perfect for this plant. Any lower and you will indeed get burn patches on the leaf...if not nutrient lock out as well.

You plant is not nutrient deficient. Unless your dirt was dug up from a farm that has been over cropped for 10 years.

If you are not checking your water pH on a EVERY SINGLE TIME you water basis, odds are therein MOST LIKELY lies your problem.

Distilled and softened water has a very high pH. IT needs to be adjusted down. If you are serious about your tomato plants, you cannot water and just expect it to flourish.

Not on a indoor grow. Outdoor is fine as the soil has natural buffers, but to grow indoors you need a $55.00 pH Milwaukee pen or something similar.

Your fish store sells strips and little bottles. Getonline and geta real pen and if you are an organic kind of grower, vinegar is a decent enough ph Down (about 1 teaspoon p/gallon) or use a chemical pH down powder.

Now reading you aren't watering with a 6.8 - 7.0 water would tell me there in is where your problem most likely lies.

As to the 6.4 pH question....thats a pH level better suited for hydro type grow, although your plants will be ok. But eventually, your soil might get a bit acidic over time and cause probs...I would prefer to raise it to 6.8 exactly.

And as far as the stretching....NOME....

On a heavy indica strain, it is ok to let them stretch a bit...it give the secondaries some room and light and can increase tomato production sites.

If the plant is being LST'd thats the same thing.

However, i strongly advise against LST a heavy indica strain becasue your buds, while nice and strong, will be not quite so prevelant or numerous as if you did it with a sativa strain.

FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE!

Good luck and watch the water pH and all will be well.

[Punk In Drublic]

Thanks Hardon,

I just got a ph test kit with ph/up and down. I just tested my distilled water wich I've been using and the ph was around 6.0. Also, on the label on the distilled water it reads "Processed by: Reverse Osmosis, Steamed Distillation and Ozonation. It also says sodium free.

Now Hardon or Knowm, should I contine to use this distilled water AFTER I adjust the ph to a proper level? Or should I use tap water after I've let it sit out and adjusted the ph to a proper level?

This is really all I need to know now and I think I'll be good to go. You guys have been a huge help! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!

Thank you again.

[Punk In Drublic]

Well good news. I just got a pH soil tester and tested my soil. I tested it in all different locations in the pot and it all registered around 6.8 - 7.0. Mainly it was a tiny bit below 7.0.

[HARDDON]

If your water is distilled then RO'd it is fine...

I still prefer some tap water over distilled however because thru distillation you lose a lot of minerals.

The really good bottled water has some minerals added back in for taste, like calcium and mag...which your plant stems need.

Look for Dasani brand water, or evian..they have natural minerals in there. Water is water but ideally your plant should get a consistent type for the life of the plant.

One day I'll post pics of my 3 foot long solid cloned tomato buds fed with water that has been manipulated to have a wider hydrongen atom angle and reduced surface tension to <=+34 dynes.

It grows monster plants...but the machine was $1995.00.

[Garden Knowm]

On a heavy indica strain, it is ok to let them stretch a bit...it give the secondaries some room and light and can increase tomato production sites.

no its NOT...lol
It is NOT ok...it is silly...

I HAVE SPOKEN - love


Hey Hardon...
I have ph'd a few brands of distilled water and they all ph at 7.0...
Are you telling us that these have also been RO'ed...
I never knew... why would distilled watre have a high PH?


Hardon... I am ready to meet you... : ) LOL
do you e-mail.... [email protected]
I also want to send you a gift... a token.. LOL



http://www.plantitearth.com/store/product.asp?id=304&catid=65

Every farmer should own this kit .... it is a MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Punk In Drublic]

I'm using this: Deluxe pH (http://66.223.54.227/popup.asp?product_id=113)

Knowm, can you tell me how long it takes to change the pH in the water after you apply it? It says a couple drops per US gallon, which I did.

[HARDDON]

My bad...too early in the AM for me...

Distilled water should be neutral and softened water should be high.

But still, I would never give my plants distilled water unless its a hydrogro or KBS.

It is stripped of its electrons and offer no life giving hydrogen to plants...or people.

It is dead water and whatever nutes the plants get come from them being added.

Try this experiment...drink nothing but distilled water for a 2 week period. See how you feel...:dance:

Shiest..I come in and go out...in and out.

I just have a goal to hit 3K posts and then I retire forever!

Maybe...but I dont have the time i used to so i could hang out and help peeps grow good tomato plants.

Its a thankless job most of the time anyhow...

I send samples with some of you peeeps but dont really need any in return...

I landed my hands on some superskunk and all i can handle is a hit or two at a time and I gotta enuff harvested now for the next 2 years.

About to chop my 3 foot cloned buds that will weight out about an ounce each...the crystals are so thick it addds a lot of weight.

[Punk In Drublic]

Hey guys. I'm still figuring out this pH up/down. About how long should it be before I see a change in the waters pH after I treat it?


Thanks again guys. Your help is greatly appreciated :)

[HARDDON]

Hey guys. I'm still figuring out this pH up/down. About how long should it be before I see a change in the waters pH after I treat it?


Thanks again guys. Your help is greatly appreciated :)

Immediatley.

Instantly.

You need a good pen. The digit will instantly display the pH and if you poured vinager or a pH down solution it should tell you instantly the new value.

When you are ready to water, simply adjust the pH to desired value and water.

You must focus on the water pH not the soil pH. Make the water proper and the soil will become proper.

[karmaxul]

The only ph pen I use is the Hanna 9044 which you will not find in stores. Call Hanna for a local distributor and you can get it for 119.95usd. It does constant monitoring of ph microsiemens ppm and temp. For pens it is best to keep the diode constantly wet. If it drys let it soak in water for 30 min. for an acc. reading. If you still have a prob with the spots you may want to flush the 3 gallon pots out with like 9 gallons of water. Your plants may be drupy from a low lumen that is given by flouros. Most of the time it is from the bottom of the pots never drying out though. The three gallon would be best if watered with a garden sprayer to keep the bottom mostly dry as they will take a long time to dry out. A good water source you may want to consider is from a dehumidifier if you only got a couple plants. The clorine in tap water will disapate in 24 hours if you let it sit. I use two gallon max for indoor mothers at 2 feet tall so the roots can get oxygen. The spots can be from a unbalanced ph in the bottom of the soil. Microorganisms as they convert organic nitrogen into inorganic form which the plants can use raise the ph up. If the bottom of the soil is left constently wet which can be an issue with 3 gallon pots if not using a sprayer will not have oxygen for micro life and the ph is not the same as the rest of the soil which can cause burning. The transplant my have allowed the bottom roots to dry. The rooting powder has auxins in it but shultz is inorganic and thrive alive has the same hormones in a organic form derived from norwiegin kelp. I only use 1 to 2 drops per gallon as well even though they reccomend 15ml per gallon, but that is for sales only. Since I have never seen batguano burn I would lean towards a ph problem at the bottoms of the pots from not drying enough.
one love
c

[CoyoteGrass]

umm yer best bet is to stop watering so much and move that light up more...its too close....short and fat is nice but they will do better....the spots look like where wate sat on the leaf and the light magnified it burning yer leaves...also looks like spider mites.....the foil is kinda useless and u need rais the light.....and she is old enough to live without the fertilizer.....ur soil looks good....water every 3 weeks and raise the light so its about 6-8 inches above her....have fun smoking that finished produect...its gonna be nice!

[karmaxul]

flouro can be with in inches of the plants. the 40 watt tubes do not get hot enough to burn the leaves if the leaf is touching it so I would keep them low myself. Every foot a lumen travels its strength is cut in half. If the fert residue was burning the leaf it would be burnt in the channel which it is not. It would not be a balanced burn on each side of the leaf either. Dont worry about mites I once had a plant I was looking after for a friend that was devistated by mites and I had to move her out side. the nugs were covered in webs and the leaves got real dry but it is even mostly and very spoted.
One love
c

[karmaxul]

If you use the three gallons pine chips on the bottom couple inches or grow rocks will help them dry better.
one love
c

[Punk In Drublic]

umm yer best bet is to stop watering so much and move that light up more...its too close....short and fat is nice but they will do better....the spots look like where wate sat on the leaf and the light magnified it burning yer leaves...also looks like spider mites.....the foil is kinda useless and u need rais the light.....and she is old enough to live without the fertilizer.....ur soil looks good....water every 3 weeks and raise the light so its about 6-8 inches above her....have fun smoking that finished produect...its gonna be nice!

Thanks for your reply!

I only water her around once a week or so and if I wait any longer than that, she gets really droopy and the soil is bone dry. As soon as I water her, she perks right up and looks healthy. I have a soil moister meter and I'm pretty sure I'm not overwatering. Like I said, I only water when I see her begging to be watered.

As for the lights, that's how floro's are supposed to be. They do not get hot. And, I've never had any water on her leaves, so I don't think water sat on her and burned her.

Spidermites, I've searched long and hard for them. No sign of them.

Also, that's not foil, it's mylar. The lights are even with it.

And, live without ferts? She's only been fed a half dose of bat guano once :confused:

Karmaxul,

Thanks alot for your reply! I have around %30 perlite mixed with the soil, as well as a layer of perlite at the bottom of the pot. Hopefully that will help with the draining? Like I mentioned, I always wait til the soil is dry before I water. I do think you are correct on the ph problems. I've now started to monitor my ph, and adjust the water as needed. I just checked my soil again and it's right around 6.8.

Thanks again for your help everyone :) She's starting to look alot better, and is going to go in flowering soon. I am starting to see alternating nodes :cool:

[karmaxul]

i use a ph level of 5.9 and 6.1 when I feed which is advice I got from the mag. Maximum yield. Its a great resource and you can read all the old issues at www.maximumyield.com
one love
c

[Garden Knowm]

hey
punk
i would like to see more pics(updated).. if possible

love

HARDON...e-mail me!!!!!!!!!!!

[Punk In Drublic]

hey
punk
i would like to see more pics(updated).. if possible

love

HARDON...e-mail me!!!!!!!!!!!

No problem NOME :rasta: Anything for you, you've been a wonderful help! I can remember even before I joined this forum, I used to read alot and your posts always stuck out to me. I used to think "what a helpful guy he is!"

Anyways, here's the pics. They were last fed Saturday. Today is Thursday so I'm going to feed them tomorrow and start 12/12'in them this weekend. There are alternating nodes on both of them :cool:


Edit: NOME, can I shoot you an email if you don't mind?

[Garden Knowm]

HEy PUnk

Yes you may .. LOL

Have you considered cloning NOW...?
CLone them down to 4-6 inches tall...
take a shit load of clones....

and then let you plant grow for 3-7 days.. and get 8-12 inches tall..
and then flowr them...

love

[Punk In Drublic]

HEy PUnk

Yes you may .. LOL

Have you considered cloning NOW...?
CLone them down to 4-6 inches tall...
take a shit load of clones....

and then let you plant grow for 3-7 days.. and get 8-12 inches tall..
and then flowr them...

love

Hey NOME, wassup...


There's a few reasons why I haven't cosidered cloning yet.

First, I'm VERY limited on space right now, and don't really have the room. I hardly have room for what I have now :(

Second, this is my very first grow and am really looking at it as a learning experience. I've learned SO MUCH since I started this grow and there are a ton of things I will be doing differently on my next grow.

Third, this is a bagseed and I'm not even sure how it's going to turn out. The bag it came from was great though. There are a couple strains I'm keeping my eye on for my next grow and have always told myself I would start cloning then, when I actually KNOW what I've got :)

Although, I could take a couple of clones for practice? Not a bad idea. I just have so little room:( That's why I've been reading up on Lowryders. They would be PERFECT for my situation.


I have read alot on cloning, and know the basic steps, however if you know of a detailed step by step guide, please let me know.

The girls are doing great. It's been six days since their last feeding and I'm probably going to feed today, or tomorrow morning. I then planned on turning the lights off this weekend. I've been LST'ing the older plant on the right and she is responding wonderfully! I've been tying her down a little bit each day, and she always stretches right back up to the lights.

I imagine that your suggestion of cloning would also help get rid of some of the bigger leaves, so that the secondary growth can get more light? Am I right about that? If I can't keep alot of clones, can I get rid of the bigger fan leaves? I've been moving them over, and keep turning the girls so each side gets a good amount of the blue spectrum light I have on the side of each plant. Seems to be working well so far :pimp:


Thanks alot for your help NOME. I do greatly appreciate it ;) I will keep you updated with pics :)

[karmaxul]

If you clone them before they are a foot and a half tall you will stunt the growth for a good month and a half. If I were making mothers out of them I may consider taking a couple of the bottom leafs off to give the lower branches a bit of light for a bushier mother. I would only take off one a week to prevent stress till they reach 13 inches or so from a production angle. Even if the strain was not going to be with me for a couple of years, at lest I would have a mother for home grown goodness. They are always better when you raise them yourself. If I was to use 3 gallons I would water them everyday with a garden sprayer which disperses the water better throughout the top and give her Like a glass of mix a day. Like 12 to 18 ounces depending on the temp and air flow. Even with pine chips or grow rocks on the bottom they only speed drying by about 30% when used in my one gallon pots. I like the 5.5in pleated pots myself which are only 3.5 inches on the bottom for a half gallon size. You can soak them and in 24 hours they will be dry from the air allowence given to the sides and less water on the bottom. The lady who makes them in germany only makes large orders. I was going to sell them in the US via my site but she will not make me 1000 for a order and I can not afford a 50000 pot order right now. Hopefully some one will get them as I have not seen them in the US except by agway special order which is a pain to arrange. WIBO
One love
c