Hydro Questions: Help!!!

[MaryjaneMenehune]

Alright, I know that there are a whole crap load of posts on hydro, but I have a few specific questions I was wondering if anyone could help me with:
(my system is a 18 gal rubbermaid bin aerated by air pump and bubble stones with 1 net filled with vermiculite/perlite mix(but planning on starting few more plants) and my nutrient supply is limited to shultz plant food and molasses, i know it's bad, but the little guy is growing so far)

1. The growspace I am using gets plenty of air, but it may be a little too cool. What is the minimum temp for growing? Also, i bought an aquarium water heater, i figure there wont be any problem with it as long as the roots dont get too close... assuming it is fine, what is the optimum temp?

2. BIG issue- nutrient supplies- apparently there are no garden supplies stores around my town for like 50 miles, so I have no idea what I can use to supplement feeding nor do I have access to a ppm meter or any fancy gadgets. How much plant food or molasses should i administer and how often? What the F can I substitute for nutrients? atleast temporarily, which leads me into my next question...

3. Anybody know a reputable site to order pretty inexpensive supplies with an emphasis on discreteness? (thats not asking too much) :D

4. not related to hydro, but ive also got 6 other plants in soil, can cooler climate stunt their growth or induce high levels of stress? if so, what can i do about that because i am running them under a flourescent light that stays pretty darn cool (please keep cost in mind for this question)?

any other tips you might think of, just let me know as any advice will be most appreciated...(ill try to get pics soon)
---MJmenehune
:rasta: <-----me after you lend a guiding hand

[MaryjaneMenehune]

The seedling in the hydro is probably going to drift on up until she reaches the seedling in the sky, the heavens, the resiny gates. I think she is beyond repair and i feel this hydro setup would definitely do alot better with actual nutrients as opposed to whatever i had leftover to give it. :( (I am still interested to see if anyone has created a system with common household items or options not commonly thought of)
I'll just start a new one with the appropriate materials...i've learned my lesson. It will go better second time round, but still wondering if anyone knows any good sites... i've been to www.ecogrow.com , but didnt know if that was the best or even all that good...

I diagnosed the plant as hitting a lucky patch of nutrients and feeding off of whatever the cotyledons provided for a little bit, than losing strength due to nute defficiency (obviously). ONe thing that I am unsure of is whether to put any water into the perlite/vermiculite mix to add moisture in a bubbling system or to just let it get all it's moisture from the bubbling water.... ----------> QUESTIONS: For an aerorated water set-up like i've got, is it better for the container to be shallow or deep?
----------------------------------> How far can the plants be from the bubble stone?
finally,------------------------------> how close can the plants be to one another in order maximize yeild without compromising lighting? (4 25 watt 4100ks with reflectors)

[MaryjaneMenehune]

damn it, i said "how close can the plants be to one another in order maximize yeild without compromising lighting?"
I meant to say I have 4 four-foot 32 watt bath and kitchen (4100k?) with reflectors... how close should lights be from plant/each other?

[turtle420]

Bumping it man...

I'm reading, I'm trying to answer your Qs... it's just that I'm not that experienced... but let me see if I can answer some of the questions...

[BloodShot420]

1. Its better to be too cold than to hot - heat is much less expensive than chillers and such. depending on what kind of system you are running temps should be between 62-ish and 68F... thats for DWC - any higher than that and you'll get root rot, which sucks ass. I think other systems may be more flexible, not sure how flexible in terms of too cold though, never ran into that problem myself.

2. You need hyroponic nutrients, and at least a method of checking the ph... the nutes you can kinda guess with, but if you give them too much - you'll never REALLY know unless you have a TDS pen. setting up a successful hydro system cant really be done with things around the house like a soil grow. Some may say you can, but then I'll just put some emphasis on SUCCESSFULL..

3. i dunno if we are supposta give out addys here, cuz I'm kinda new... so fuck it - i'll claim ignorance. discounthydro.com is good - very dependable and discreet. Sometimes people on ebay sell shit for cheaper though... and when in doubt, and on a budget... froogle.com

4. wal-mart sells small thermostatically controlled electric heaters for $20 I have one for my office... they work well. put the ventillation on timers, so there is no fresh cold air coming in during lights off... they dont need it then.

hope that helps! :thumbsup:

[MaryjaneMenehune]

Here are some shots of the little fella...perhaps she hasn't met her fate afterall? :confused:
the first is of her underneath the light in bin.
The second is of one the soil grows, it is sprouting it's second set of leaves there if you look closely. (too droopy or ok?)
The third is of the hydro plant and basket removed from its bubbler. it is hard to tell from the pic but there is some red and white (almost looks like crystals) on the edge of both of the leaves and then they are mostly green on the inside portion. the hydro is about three days younger(or so) then the previous soil shot so it isnt abnormally stunted...or is it?
The fourth is of the soil group under light.
the last is of one that looks kind of yellowish, any suggestions?

[MaryjaneMenehune]

so, things i have to add to my grow...fan, mylar, nutrient stockhold, Co2 (suggestions will be most appreciated) and larger tub... i think that's everything, let me know if you think of something else.
my special nutrient formula
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[Gen]

Mary, very inexpensive and free fertilizer is urine. dilute 1:10 or more. 1 part urine:10 parts water. If you have nothing else. It worked for thousands of years before we had monsanto making our fertilizer.

[BloodShot420]

looks like they're gonna live... i'm not sure whats up with the droopy leaves... sometimes thats from overwatering though. dont kill'em with kindness.

[MaryjaneMenehune]

One other question I have is:
What should I do about lighting cycles/ running the "dwc" (what does this mean again) during the off hours? I'd like to run both the hydro and soil on a 18/6 to save electricity costs and still veg...but should i turn off the air pump too? I haven't been but i don't know if this is wrong or even if its okay to turn it off for very long at all...

oh 'snap', one more i just thought of
what kind of system for production of co2 should i be looking at? and plants only need/absorb co2 during the lights-on period, right?
and another:
ppm meter: ebay?

oh yeah...in response:
i had just finished flushing the soil on that one to get the ph right...hopefully it will bounce back
start ferting soil when three pairs of leaves (not cotyledons), correct?

and should i increase humidity levels in grow room or leave them be?

[MaryjaneMenehune]

Alright, I was hoping to learn about co2 production...for now, ill just show you some experiments I have been able to make to feed the little girls.
Photos:
first is of all three different methods, one being yeast in sugar water that has a tube that goes into saltwater so the bacteria dies and the room remains sterile, second being a milk jug filled with baking soda used as a basin whose lid is glued to a water bottle which contains vinegar (there is hole drilled through the lids that are glued together)...the water bottle has a tiny hole at the bottom of it, so when flipped upside down, flow stays constant and the vinegar can funnel it's way down to the baking soda which reacts to produce co2 which is piped next to the plants.......long explanation. and lastly there is the last which has more detailed pics, you can figure it out, same baking soda and vinegar reaction...

2nd shot of holes for co2 to travel through in pot.
3rd is of same bottle from second method (upside down) filled w/ vinegar
4th is of whole contraption in full functioning mode...
lets in light.....
co2 supply......
paper filter to allow air transfer(good or bad?)......
notice how it is propped up so it is as close as possible to light (used cigarette box for props).........(you can tell if you look real close in last pic...lol)
i think thats everything.:confused:
peace
-mjm

[MaryjaneMenehune]

Forgot to ask, should I be giving the plants supplements like that in such high concentrations or is it better to give them a little all day long...if so, how would i do that ? (preferably low budget, but if you can increase results dramatically for on an advanced set-up, let me know about it...scuba tanks are off limits)

[MaryjaneMenehune]

Mary, very inexpensive and free fertilizer is urine. dilute 1:10 or more. 1 part urine:10 parts water. If you have nothing else. It worked for thousands of years before we had monsanto making our fertilizer.

I added a tiny bit of urine to my molasses and shultz plantfood mix and despite what people say about going low budget on hydro, i am pretty impressed at how this little guy has bounced back...
oh yeah, one more thing...would the co2 produced from the baking soda.vinegar want to rise or sink in the air? i have been using warm vinegar in case it likes to sink, but it is an exothermic reaction, is it not? i am pretty clueless....

[ekim1971]

look at high times /ask ED pro that give you any info you need

[MaryjaneMenehune]

One good and easy source for Co2 i've found is dry ice with some water to cover it. The plants seem to be doing fine, but some are a little yellow on the newly forming leaves. Is this normal? Should I start with ferts even when they are only two weeks old?
Finally, should the leaves that were apparently overwatered start to spring back up or will they stay pointed down kind of?
The hydro plant seems to be doing fine, but i have yet to order any nutrients... planning on gh 3part, superthrive, liquid karma for now...
Is ebay safe to buy from, i've heard a lot about them selling their suspicious buyers list to the dea?

[blissedup]

:pimp:

[blissedup]

:pimp: heres' how...Answer to your first question...1)The marijuana plant is very hardy meaning, it can withstand temps as low as 40 deg. before it has major effects on growth (slowing) it depends alot on variety of plant. (which you failed to mention) Or the plant can withstand temps. as high as 120 deg. (don't recommend) The ideal temps. uaually fall in the range of 60-85 degrees the more light available, the ideal temp. for normal output increases. Night temps should be about 10-15 deg. lower than in day. In plain english,80 deg. daytime 65 deg. nighttime.2) MOLASSES????? Try cow manure,chicken manure,blood meal,dried blood,worm castings,Guano (bat shit), cottonseed meal,greensand,feathers(breaks down slowly),hair (breaks down slowly) OR 3) try mdhydropnics.com or hydroponicsonline.com. I really hope this helps. Need more info? respond.:pimp:

[Gen]

Mary, I read an entire thread written by a guy on overgrow that used urine for his grow. That's all he used for the veg cycle. For the flower cycle he used urine and bloom nutes for extra safety. He only used the urine water every other time he watered. He was using a drip system with rockwool. It turns out the rock wool was acting like a pond filter and beneficial bacteria could live in there and protect the roots from the buildup of bad bacteria. So to make a long story short, dilute urine will work for dirt. Since the dirt acts as a filter. This will only work for hydro if you use lava rocks. Some said hydroton would work and others said there wasn't enough surface area. I've tried this using lava rocks in a swc container. It does work.

[MaryjaneMenehune]

1) How long would a quart each of the 3part nutrients last me in a 18 gallon resovoir(dwc)?
2) And how frequently do you need to change out the water to prevent buildup?
3) I was thinking about putting some lava rocks into the tank to help filter out the bad bacteria; how effective would that be and is it worth it?
4)besides the gh flora series, i was looking to get liquid karma, megagro, and also some superthrive... sound complete enough or should i be looking at any other products? (ill think about bloom bud and big bud when the time comes, for now, they are babies)
5)can any of the previously mentioned nutrients be used for soil grows with any success?

[Gen]

Question 1. Depends how often you change your nutes.
Question 2. This varies depending upon the individual. I've heard as often as every week to never. Watch your plants. They will tell you when something is wrong.
Question 3. I have lava rocks in my swallow water culture. It can't hurt and yes if you are using urine, you must have this as the beneficial bacteria can live in lava rocks. They can live in anything porous, scrubbie, etc.
Question 4. I don't know, never used any other products except superthrive and I'm not sure about it.
Question 5. I'm sure you could use those nutes for soil, but why would you? There are much cheaper products out there for soil grows.

Remember opinions are cheap. Best advice comes with experience. Try it.

[Burn1down]

Sorry I am not going to be too much help but... this is the lucas formula for growing which is gh flora series micro and bloom only, 5ml micro, 10 mil bloom per gallon while vegging start with 50% solution with seedlings and go up slowly as they grow. Flowering is 8ml micro, 16ml bloom per gallon.
There are two ways to work with this formula:
1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution.
2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels.
Between vegging and flowering should dump the nutrients and flush with clearex to kill the salt buildups then go to the other feeding schedule.

Some good additives hydroguard(good bacteria), clearex(flushing agent), b1(kinda like superthrive), phup, phdown, bushmaster(stops vertical growth increases flowers by up to 30%, damn expensive) and 35% h202 I use this for cleaning and such(don't use with hydroguard will kill bacteria).
Pretty much everything for hydro can be used for soil.
Some good sites: bghydro.com, cheaphydroponics.com
As always I can't take credit for any of this.

[Burn1down]

Oh two things added. I hear that Advanced Nutrients were tested growing cannabis. The Lucas formula is only supposed to be used with RO or zero ppm water.

[MaryjaneMenehune]

It turns out that the ppm level is around 1200 in my current setup...but the seedling seems to be doing alright for whatever reason....I will get it onto a proper diet soon, but i need to know one thing...my tap water is at 200 ppm naturally...should i buy the "micro hardwater" to compensate for this? I was thinking yes, but I am not sure.
one more question...
should i ease the pH up to the right level or should i do it all at once?

[Gen]

You adjust the ph at once. In other words, keep on adjusting till you get the right number. If this is your first go at ph, be prepared to throw out a batch.

[MaryjaneMenehune]

here is a revised pic of the plant i originally thought was doomed for. Mmm, looking good. It does look a little raggidy because i nearly killed it early on...
but besides that, why is it a little droopy?

[MaryjaneMenehune]

I should be switching over to actual nutrients soon...Hooray! Plus I'll be putting it under mh. Hooray! I'll post pics when the plant is exploding in growth. :thumbsup:

[MaryjaneMenehune]

this mo fo is growing nice and quick...i think hydro is more exciting and enjoyable for that reason...so far, so good...i have yet to switch anything to an improved set up...

[latewood]

1) How long would a quart each of the 3part nutrients last me in a 18 gallon resovoir(dwc)?
2) And how frequently do you need to change out the water to prevent buildup?
3) I was thinking about putting some lava rocks into the tank to help filter out the bad bacteria; how effective would that be and is it worth it?
4)besides the gh flora series, i was looking to get liquid karma, megagro, and also some superthrive... sound complete enough or should i be looking at any other products? (ill think about bloom bud and big bud when the time comes, for now, they are babies)
5)can any of the previously mentioned nutrients be used for soil grows with any success?
1...do the math...example:1 qt/liter ml per gallon (5) times res capacity (18);
So, 5x18...then divide that into 1qt/liter...So, 1000ml divided by 90ml(5x18)=?

That is how many res changes you will get from that size bottle;)

2...7-10 days. Watch your plants...add ph'd ROwater in between res :) changes. this allows for the leaching of some salts before next dose of tea.

3...Don't start putting alot of "CRAP in your res...It will only tangle in the 'root system'...:(

4...If you get Liquid Karma, you don't need Superthrive, but I have both and use Superthrive as a tried and tested stress reducer. If you have three part you can double your bloom nutes to enhance flower...I would add Calmag+ if you use ROwater, because RO removes the calmag in your water...And get some Hygrozyme for the enzyme protection of your res...If you cannot afford Hygrozyme...then buy Advanced Nutrients Sensi-Zyme...keep in mind that You use about 3parts sensi to gallon///Hygrozyme you add 2 parts to gallon; In comparison to amount used per/and determining cost per dose...I switched to Hygrozyme(organic; also, if that matters)...you have to read up on both and make the call.:cool:

5...yes

hope this helps...I haven't stopped in too much, because i have seen that you have many advisors...peace.lw

[latewood]

this tidbit of info...I for got to mention...Since you asked about how long nutes will last; this might help.

3-part
I dont' use much grow...A liter bottle last me a couple grows...
Micro a liter per grow...
Bloom, You use alot more bloom than the others, because generally People are not "Vegging Long" on Strong nute formula's, they spend more time on the flower photoperiod. I buy a gallon of Bloom

Liquid Karma...Buy a gallon...same with Calmag+ (you will love this stuff and want to use it, so this advice will save you a bunch of money(buying little bottles @3x the price))...Hygrozyme fits in this category, if you are going to have large perpetual grows. you still save a wad of cash, if you buy can afford a gallon. lw

[MeanGreenEye420]

water log or roots gettin to big