How does Aquafarm/Waterfarm Recirculate Solution?

[grow4fun]

I was looking at the Waterfarm (buckets attached to a controller-bucket), and wanting to build a system like it, but I want my system to be re-circulating. Where the nutrient solution in the bottom of the buckets is constantly flowing into the buckets, like NFT/SWC, and back out.

Iâ??ve read threads on the construction of Krusty buckets and DWC buckets, but no-one explains the path the nutes take through the lines and buckets.

Some (like Waterfarms) only have a single grommet/feedline coming out of the bucket at the bottom. Connected to the main feed line that the other buckets are connected to (see photo). So how can it re-circulate?

If I made a Waterfarm or KB system, I picture one grommet/nutrient line at the bottom of the bucket on one side, and an identical one on the other side. So the pump would force water into the bucket through the first and out through the second. The buckets would be connected in series. The nutes would flow into one, out of it, into the next, out, etc. Re-circulating. Mainly for temperature control of the buckets (using the nutrient to cool/heat the buckets/medium).

Would that system work or am I missing something?

Also, since I want to connect Waterfarm-type modules that way, would the water flowing through the buckets let the air pump pressure (that forces the nutes up to the drip ring) escape? I see pics of Waterfarms with that feedline going into the bucket-bottom, but canâ??t see where the nutes go back out. Or how the movement of fluid through those lines doesnâ??t release the airpump pressur in the bucket that forces the nutes to the top.

Does anyone know how that works?

thanks

[grow4fun]

... and so the roots that hit the bottom of the bucket are in swiftly flowing water, not just airstones.

[grow4fun]

....

[Gen]

Try over at overgrow.com. There is a thread about bio-buckets building.

[grow4fun]

Thanks. Read 'em. Don't understand how the water circulates. Many photos show a bucket with only one line going into it, like the Waterfarm.

[The White Snoop]

recurculating DWC is easy...you have a feed line..and you have a drain line. The feed line feeds nutes to the bucket through a drip... and then the water pump attatched to the drain line changes the water out...read this

http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthread.php?t=730768&onlyuser=&perpage=15&pagenumber=1/

[grow4fun]

Thanks for the link, read it, plus your comments, now makes sense. The water drips in the top/netcup, and drains out the bucket-bottom to reservoir. Still don't see what makes the water back up until it reaches the netpot/overflow at top of bucket, seems like it would just drain back to res.
Doesn't matter........ Now if we replace that DWC bucket filled with liquid with the same bucket filled with grow rocks, and put a second bucket beneath the first one [like KFB] so you can remove the top bucket to clear the drain, it would be the system I'm envisioning. A waterfarm! :D [well a Waterfarm without the noisy air pumps].
The only question then is whether to let the bottom bucket passively drain back to res or have a second pump flowing water into/out of it, then through all the other bucket's bottoms, from one to the next, in a line. And back to res.
Would there be any advantage in that last step?

[The White Snoop]

thats up to you about the second pump...you can just let gravity do its thing...or you can get another pump..Ive seen it done both ways.. but if you get a 2nd pump you might run into some higher res temps... I suggest a inline instead of a submersible pump.

[latewood]

roots need oxygen, whenever you use a reservoir you really need to have airpump for oxygenating the solution, check this page out...great products, too,hope this helps.lw
http://www.americanagritech.com/growroom/growroom.asp?ID_PK=13

[Ziggy Stardust]

http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/instructions/GH_WaterFarm_instructions.pdf
^^^^^^^that there is the inst manual for the waterfarms unit and it dont re circulate nuets it uses a gravity system. when the level of nuets in the bottom resv bucket gets low the valve allows a thined out mix of food to be fed into the system and then it uses the same princible as an aquairum to "bubble" nuets to the top feeder ring. to me this is different that the drip feeding that others use and is more common. im not sure but with this system not only do u have to have a PH meter but you have it use it in the resv, the bucket and in the feed lines (more work?). in my setup i just change the food every 5 days. i already know that the water in LA is hard but not hard enough to make the nuet toxic as long as im not lazy about changing it. and this place might not be heaven but the water is well tested and consistant in what it has in it.

[grow4fun]

lw: Cool..... americanagritech makes some cool systems. I so wish I could just buy one (tested and working). But to fit the layout I need (room shape, vertical grow, etc.) I have to take one of the commercial designs and bend it into the shape/configuration I need...........suuucks. I always use an airstone in the reservoir, thanks.

Ziggy: after studying the Waterfarm manual closely I can see how it works, no recirculation, and how the mysterious drip ring works.

If you ran those drip rings with a water pump I'm trying to figure out how many gph pump you'd need to run how many rings. Or in other words what the approx. flow rate of a ring is. Like would a 50gph pump run 10 of them?

[Ziggy Stardust]

everyone kno what a "sump pump" is? see my thinkin is more simple is more better. ive cked out the plans for the DWC cited above and it looks lika lot of extra stuff (risers float valves and more work - which if your into is ok). but why not use gravity (elevate your buckets with a few blocks-bricks under your buckets) to drain back to a angled collection basin with a "sump pump" that shuts itself off then it starts sucking air pump your nuetas back onto the main tank. the only thing a need is the pump....and to tell ya the truth a aint seen one yet - any ideas??

[The White Snoop]

^^^good shit...but the only plus to installing a float valve is that the system topps itself

[Ziggy Stardust]

ok ...soooo where do we get suitable pumps like the above? submersible and self actuating. i ask because ive looked and no action and i NEED a few....lol any help?

[grow4fun]

Ziggy:

'xcuse me but..... needing a sump pump to get the nutes back into the reservoir (and another one to pump them to the buckets) is more complicated than one pump recirculating them.

The sump pumps you're talking about are good units, heavy-duty, relatively cheap for how much power you get. My $60 one [a Wayne] from Ace wil easily pump up to a 7' height above the pump, with a flow rate the same as my house water tap wide open. But........ they're hot! Left one in the res accidentally turned on overnight a couple times ---- could've cooked an egg in the reservoir soultion. :stoned:
So they couldn't be used for continuous duty, no way. Great for emptying reservoirs, great for watering soil grows (watering your pots with water/nutrients mixed in a reservoir).
Here's your float-switch links:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1296254&cp=&kw=float+switch&parentPage=search&searchId=10509336467

and

http://www.acehardware.com/sm-wayne-submersible-sump-pump--pi-2151136.html

[Ziggy Stardust]

lol....that switch is exactly what i need....much thanks G4fun. see im running a drip recovery system so right now my beauties are in 5 1/2 net pots buried half way in a 2x2' seedling tray, that in turn, gravity drains back into the initial feeding resv.since my current system is so small i dont even need a 2nd pump BUT after i go to a 12 pot system my needs will change as i will need like a 25 gl feeding drum so the smaller pump with that actuating switch will turn on whenever theres nuets to be recaptured. simple.