Shrooms + MDMA

[LegallyBlind]

Has anyone here ever taken shrooms and pure MDMA or ecstacy? I hear that when you do that you have a full blown phychadelic experience. I just have a few questions about it.

1. Is there a better/worse/no chance of having a bad trip when doing this? If so are the bad trips of this any different than just a strait shrooms bad trip?

2. Does doing these two together make it any more dangerous than it would be taking them seperately?

3. If you have does this please tell me all about it.

I plan on doing an eigth of shrooms and either popping one or two pure mdma pills.

[CocaCola]

You're a fucking lucky guy, is what I have to say.

[LegallyBlind]

Haha, tell me more.

[Harvesthetic]

Has anyone here ever taken shrooms and pure MDMA or ecstacy? I hear that when you do that you have a full blown phychadelic experience. I just have a few questions about it.

1. Is there a better/worse/no chance of having a bad trip when doing this? If so are the bad trips of this any different than just a strait shrooms bad trip?

2. Does doing these two together make it any more dangerous than it would be taking them seperately?

3. If you have does this please tell me all about it.

I plan on doing an eigth of shrooms and either popping one or two pure mdma pills.

OF COURSE the combination is more dangerous. If you "hear" things about dope, always back them up.
I'm going to spare you the scientific crap. It's dangerous. Real dangerous. Especially when you're prone to psychotic behavior.

I would consider this as being inappropriate, irresponsible use of mushrooms

leave the MDMA CRAP out of there, it's synthesized plastic.

Jesus Christ i can't believe people sometimes.

[bedake]

My guess is that your chance of actually having a bad trip is lower than normal while rolling, i would think there would be alot less bad trip promoting anxiety while rolling. but thats just a guess.

Oh, guy before me, its called hippy flippin where im from, its a very beautiful experience to shroom and roll at the same time... a very heartwarming and great experience where you can find new things out about yourself.... just like tripping... just because shrooms are "natural" doesnt make it some wonder mystic divine intervention on your soul. Psyilocybin is a chemical just like MDMA is.

[TheSanityAssassin]

Take the X, wait untill you feel the first tingles, and then eat the mushrooms, you'll have a blast.

[CocaCola]

OF COURSE the combination is more dangerous. If you "hear" things about dope, always back them up.
I'm going to spare you the scientific crap. It's dangerous. Real dangerous. Especially when you're prone to psychotic behavior.

I would consider this as being inappropriate, irresponsible use of mushrooms

leave the MDMA CRAP out of there, it's synthesized plastic.

Jesus Christ i can't believe people sometimes.

That's true for anyone using shrooms, and with MDMA I figure it would give you less of a chance of freaking out. Plus, I think he is experienced with both so you can't give him that bulshit... you sound like another nature is best and synthetics are pure evil... even though it's all chemicals. God, have you even tried MDMA?

[LegallyBlind]

Pure MDMA is one of the most beautiful drugs available. Is there anyone whoes actually done this? I hear that doing the MDMA with it makes the experience MUCH stronger and makes it a much stronger phychadelic experience. Do you see better visuals if you do this? Also I am planning on taking me shrooms blended in lemon juice and then taking the MDMA. Do you think that if I did it with the lemon juice it would make the trip way too strong? I am pretty experienced with shrooms by the way.

[sanfrancyan]

OF COURSE the combination is more dangerous. If you "hear" things about dope, always back them up.
I'm going to spare you the scientific crap. It's dangerous. Real dangerous. Especially when you're prone to psychotic behavior.

I would consider this as being inappropriate, irresponsible use of mushrooms

leave the MDMA CRAP out of there, it's synthesized plastic.

Jesus Christ i can't believe people sometimes.



Hahahahahaha.

The combination is great. They compliment each other very well. Its not as dangerous as the above poster makes it sound but there are risks. Make sure set and setting are contriolled and comfortable dont do more than you can handle and research properly beforehand.

www.shroomery.com/forums
the Psychedelic Experience forum has a wealth of topics about this.

www.erowid.org
this is my bible.

[LegallyBlind]

Thanks for that advice SanFran. I am very careful about set and setting. I don't know if you live in San Francisco, but so do I and I have a very nice spot to do it in nature...

[sanfrancyan]

no prob. you do any mushroom hunting in the city? i found a half oz of Psilocybe cyan day after christmas in GGP.

[LegallyBlind]

Damn man thats sick. No I never have, but I really want to try cyaens, I hear there the strongest. Do you have e-mail or a screen name?

[sanfrancyan]

i tried to send you a PM but i cant try here [email protected]

[sanfrancyan]

whoa, buddy. I just re-read your post and would suggest against the lemon juice thing. That has too many un-known variables. With that method there is no way to guage exactly how hard the mushrooms will hit.

Save the lemon juice thing for another time, eat them alone with the E

[LegallyBlind]

Ya man, thats what I thought too, so I decided to save the lemon juice thing for another time. That lemon juice thing is so fucking weird. I can't believe no one on shroomery.com knows exactly whats going on. Its crazy.

[sanfrancyan]

Ya man, thats what I thought too, so I decided to save the lemon juice thing for another time. That lemon juice thing is so fucking weird. I can't believe no one on shroomery.com knows exactly whats going on. Its crazy.

were a bunch of crazy peeps over there
:stoned: :dance: I love that place.

ive heard talk of the acidity of the lemon juice breking it down a little b4 ingestion, therby multiplying the effects, but its probobly a lot more complicated than that.

It just sux cause there cant be studys as to whats going on cause its illeagal.

[RedRainDrop]

People who say its "abusing the naturte of the mushroom" are just fucking shroomheads, taken over mentally by the mush. Me however, I have a strong tolerance, and i dont let drugs take over my mind.

I still like em :) Mushrooms are wonderful.

[bedake]

the dumbest thing you can do with MDMA is buy soley by the print

[Doobie Snax]

the dumbest thing you can do with MDMA is buy soley by the print

I know that, but i know the person who's mate makes them. Therefore he tells me how much mdma and other substances are put in them. Plus, check ecstasydata.org, if stamps didnt mean anything, then they wouldnt bother identifying pills. Although i do know what you mean.

[Not Enough Herb]

Harvesthetic

you just made yourself the most ignorant jackass on this website.

first off, pure mdma is a fuckin safe drug, probly safer than eating mushrooms. so shut the hell up, because you obvously dont know shit.

ive done this combo about 3 times. they pretty much compliment eachother. the buzz is incredible both body and mind. Take it slow tho, better safe than sorry.

have fun

if you can get coke, do it too, makes the buzz sooo much better

remember to smoke lots of weed

later

[RedRainDrop]

first off, pure mdma is a fuckin safe drug, probly safer than eating mushrooms. so shut the hell up, because you obvously dont know shit.

Is That why you can OD, from MDMA, and noone has ever ODed on mushrooms?

[sanfrancyan]

Harvesthetic

you just made yourself the most ignorant jackass on this website.

first off, pure mdma is a fuckin safe drug, probly safer than eating mushrooms. so shut the hell up, because you obvously dont know shit.



Dude, :rolleyes:

MDMA is noero-toxic, it can be VERY bad for you.. Shrooms are not, harmfull to the body nor do they pose a significant lasting effect on ones psyche if the user is of sound mind to begin with.

You should do some research before you jump all over someone for being ignorant. Because YOU obviously dont know much about the subject either.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info7.shtml
MDMA Neuropharmacology

by Lamont Granquist



MDMA is primarily a seritonergic (5-HTergic) drug. Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, 5-HT) is one of the major neurotransmitters in the brain, and is synthesized from tryptophan through the intermediate 5-hydroxytryptophan. It is synthesized in 5-HT neurons, and stored in synaptic vesicles. These vesicles release their 5-HT into the synaptic cleft in response to the firing of the 5-HT neurons. In the synaptic cleft the 5-HT neurotransmitter excerts its action on both pre- and post- synaptic receptor sites (sites on the 5-HT neuron itself, and on the neuron which it is communicating with.) 5-HT is then taken back into the 5-HT neuron via the synaptic membrane 5-HT transporter (aka "reuptake pump"), where it is again stored in the synaptic vesicles. 5-HT is metabolized primarily by monoamine oxidase (MAO) into 5-hydroxyindileacetic acid (5-HIAA).

Serotonin is thought to be responsible for many psychological (and physiological) states including mood and sleep. It has been particularly associated with major depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, and drugs to treat these disorders tend to effect 5-HT (although things are not quite clear-cut).

MDMA blocks the reuptake of 5-HT, similarly to SSRI (serotonin specific reuptake inhibiting) anti-depressants such as fluoxetine (Prozac), sertraline, and paroxetine. Unlike those drugs, however, MDMA appears to enter the neuron, either through passive diffusion or directly through the reuptake transporter, and causes the release of 5-HT. This release is calcium-independent (i.e. independent of the firing of the 5-HT neuron) and appears to come from cytoplasmic stores rather than from synaptic vesicles. The released 5-HT then enters the synaptic cleft through the 5-HT transporter. MDMA thus acts on 5-HT similarly to the way amphetamines act on dopamine.

It is thought that this efflux of 5-HT into the synaptic cleft, and the subsequent action of this 5-HT on pre- and post- synaptic binding sites is central to MDMA's neuropharmacology. MDMA, however, has micromolar potency for the serotonin 5-HT2, muscarinic M1, alpha-2 adrenergic and histamine H1 receptors. Agonist (stimulation rather than blocking) properties at the 5-HT2 receptor have been found to fairly universally be associated with "classical" psychedelic drugs such as LSD, psilocybin and mescaline. It is possible that some of MDMA's "psychedelic" effect occurs because of interactions with this receptor. The alpha-2 adrenergic receptor may be associated with some of the carciovascular effects of MDMA. MDMA also releases dopamine which may be central to both its psychological action and to its neurotoxicity in animal studies. Pre- treatment of an animal with a drug which blocks dopamine release will also block MDMA neurotoxicity. Also, serotonin specific releasing agents which are non-dopaminergic have been synthesized and been found to be devoid of MDMA's neurotoxicity in animals, they have also been found to be devoid of MDMA's psychological effects. MDMA tends to indirectly *inhibit* the firing and release of dopamine in nigrostriatal dopamine neurons (neurons projecting from the substantia nigra to the striatum) due to local 5-HT release.

MDMA doses of 20mg/kg in animals can reduce levels of tryptophan hydroxylase, which is the rate-limiting enzyme in 5-HT synthesis. It is thought that this occurs because of oxidative stress which MDMA places on the neuron. This oxidative stress might occur through several possible channels (the metabolism of MDMA into a toxic Quinoid, 5-HT derived toxins, 5-HT mediated cellular events, or temporary inhibition of monoamine oxidase) and the exact mechanism is presently unknown. It is thought that this oxidative stress also leads to the neurodegenerative destruction of 5-HT axons which is observed to occur with large doses of MDMA in animals. Anti-oxidants, anti-dopaminergic agents, agents which block intracellular calcium increases and pre- or post- treatment (up to 6 hours) with fluoxetine all block MDMA's neurotoxicity. Research ontinues on the exact mechanism of MDMA-induced toxicity.

In summary, MDMA effects 5-HT similarly to the way that amphetamines effect dopamine, by inhibiting the reuptake and causing the release of 5-HT. This effect is somewhat similar to the effect that SSRI anti-depressant drugs have. It also effects the 5-HT2 (psychedelic) and alpha-2 adrenergic (cardiovascular) receptor sites. Also, its effects on dopamine appear, at this point, to be involved both with its neurotoxicity and psychological effects. For more information, see:

Rattray-M. "Ecstasy: towards an understanding of the biochemical basis of the actions of MDMA." Essays in Biochemistry. 26:77-87. 1991.

And for general info:

Synder, Solomon H. "Drugs and the Brain." Scientific American Books. 1986. (slightly out of date, but a good introduction).

Cooper-JR, Bloom-FE, Roth-RH. "The Biochemical Basis of Neuro- Pharmacology." Oxford Uniersity Press. 1991 (6th ed). (the bible for grad students)
:cool:

[sanfrancyan]

pOwNeD :thumbsup:

[bedake]

actually the claims of adam's neurotoxcicity has been disputed as much as it has been claimed pwned cancled and you spelt it wrong, it isnt powned


sure that may be a scientific paper about how bad it is, theres many just like it which say it isnt toxic

[sanfrancyan]

actually the claims of adam's neurotoxcicity has been disputed as much as it has been claimed pwned cancled and you spelt it wrong, it isnt powned


sure that may be a scientific paper about how bad it is, theres many just like it which say it isnt toxic

then post one :dance: dont just say theres one. go find it and post a link. :thumbsup:

i love MDMA, but all the research i read points to neuro-toxic. Id love to see a papre saying otherwise.

and it can be spelled however you want you still knew what i meant. :stoned:

[yoda]

its called hippy flipping around where i am too, and i say go for it

[bedake]

ve heard E is "neurotoxic" - what does that mean?
'Neurotoxic' is applied to any substance which causes temporary or permanent changes in the brain. Animal tests have shown MDMA to be neurotoxic in large amounts. Nobody is sure at what level MDMA becomes neurotoxic in humans,

thats good enough for now, i got homework to do lol

but anyways i was reading awhile ago that the amount it takes for it to be a neurotoxin in animals is the equivalent of more than anyone will ever take, like absurdly more

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_neurotoxicity3.shtml

DMA Brain Scans Showing Neurotoxicity Discredited
Several Articles Highlight Questionable Science
by Erowid, April 2002


In another blow to the US Government's credibility as drug information provider, the Johns Hopkins brain scans which have been used to 'prove' MDMA causes brain damage have been called flawed by independent researchers and editors of the magazine New Scientist.

* New Scientist challenges the ethics and reliability of science-for-politics
* New Scientist documents errors and data obfuscation in compromised reasearch
* Toronto-based researcher Stephen Kish questions reliability of available PET scan data
* Other top PET scan experts criticize the PET scan data
* NIDA's credibility suffers once again

Under the cover story "E is for Evidence", the British science-oriented magazine "New Scientist" published a set of articles and editorials related to this topic in April 2002, denouncing the use of the questionable scientific data in the war on ecstasy consumption. There are several articles in the New Scientist, but most of them can be found following the links below.

The New Scientist article is a well-balanced, but critical, look at the issue of overstating the certainty of findings of brain damage in ecstasy users. "We are not saying that ecstasy is harmless to brain cells. It might not be. But the jury is still out. Which means scientists must resist the temptation to turn their always complex--and sometimes flawed--findings into simple scare stories in pursuit of grants and headlines."

It is refreshing to see a mainstream technical magazine publishing critiques of the science-for-politics which has compromised the credibility of government-sponsored science in the eyes of many. Historically, it has been left to fringe groups to criticize the fundamental system of peer-reviewed "science" and the often unscientific politics and economics which govern publication. The New Scientist describes how journal editors have joined in the War on Drugs by turning down articles which do not support the "anti-drug" view, including papers which report "no-effect" results.

It's an open secret that some teams have failed to find deficits in ecstasy users and had trouble publishing the findings. "The journals are very conservative," says Parrott. "It's a source of bias." Parrott himself has had two papers of this sort turned down. -- New Scientist, April 2002.

What is most troubling, perhaps, is how often "Science" has been misappopriated for the moral crusade against recreational psychoactive use. The now debunked moral panics surrounding LSD and chromosome damage, 'reefer madness', cannabis and brain damage, "crack babies", and most recently the ecstasy 'holes in your head' campaign, have all come from premature, controversial, or invalid science foisted onto the public by overeager, overfunded Drug Warriors.

Two years ago, then NIDA director Alan Leshner launched an anti-ecstasy campaign based on images from flawed PET-scan research conducted at Johns Hopkins. The campaign's trademark was a stylized image of two brain halves, side by side, with the darkened hemisphere marked "brain after ecstasy". Unfortunately for the public, NIDA has once again allowed politics and morality to trump their science. The US has spent millions of dollars pressing its "brain after ecstasy" images in widely-distributed postcards and online. Even months after NIDA learned of the data problems, and weeks after the Ricaurte and McCann PET scan studies were publicly discredited, NIDA is still pushing them as unadulterated 'fact' on their web sites (nida.nih.gov and clubdrugs.org).




The centerpiece of NIDA's Anti-Ecstasy Campaign, now widely considered invalid.

Stephen Kish's article in "Pharmacology, Biochemistry, and Behaviour" published in April, 2002 investigates the reliability of the PET brain scanning showing damage. He concludes that the studies completed to date include serious methodological flaws, huge variations between individuals tested, use of non-serotonin specific tests, lack of test-retest reliability data, and other invalidating assumptions about the types of tests used. He says that, based on the brain scan research to date, "it cannot be assumed that ecstasy exposure [causes] a chronic serotonin deficiency condition."

"Because of the serious methodological concerns in the PET measurement related to the high scatter of the values for the control and drug groups and lack of testâ??retest results, the data derived from the McCann investigation can only be considered, at most, â??â??semiquantitive.â??â??" -- Kish SJ, April 2002

Another paper currently in the process of publication also examines the PET scans, showing that the serotonin binding levels recorded for even extremely heavy ecstasy users (estimated 500mg average dose between 70 and 400 times) in the 1998 McCann & Ricaurte study were typical for controls in other studies using the same chemicals (ligands) and scanning techniques. As one PET researcher described to us, the Ricaurte team didn't have the necessary skills required to competently analyse the data. They were undertrained in the technically demanding field of PET Scanning and their results reflect both a lack of ability and a failure to notice when their results were coming back wrong.

"There are no holes in the brains of ecstasy users," says Stephen Kish, a neuropathologist at the Center for Addiction and Health in Toronto. "And if anyone wants a straightforward answer to whether ecstasy causes any brain damage, it's impossible to get one from these papers." Marc Laruelle, a Columbia University expert on brain scanning probes, agrees: "All the papers have very significant scientific limitations that make me uneasy."

According to both experts, the key flaw in the 1998 study is the sheer variability of the measurements. Some control brains performed up to 40 times better than others, and even some of the ecstasy brains outshone control brains by factors of 10 or more -- a level of scatter that both experts say is unprecedented in this type of study. -- New Scientist, April 2002

The New Scientist and Pharmacology, Biochemistry, and Behaviour investigations of flawed research practices offer a breath of fresh air in the ongoing debate about ecstasy's effects on the brain. Perhaps better reporting and editorial leadership will emerge over time, in spite of the political pressures faced by peer-reviewed journals.

[sanfrancyan]

i read about that. neuro toxicity in animals happens at what would be human recreational doses.

its mentioned in the article i posted.

[bedake]

double post i know but i wanted to make sure this was seen:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,2763,686283,00.html

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n753/a12.html


3 articles huh huh huh dawg

[sanfrancyan]

hmmm.......


thats interesting.......

[bedake]

yea but in the end does the argument even matter? Im going to use it if it causes me to go brain dead or not.

[OzzyOz]

alot of people i know have done MDMA, and they've turned out fine.


MDMA is okay if you only do it once a month or so...

ofcourse MDMA + Shrooms is going to be a warm and mind-blowing experience. I've heard all about XTC and from what i hear i'ts great, go to www.bluelight.nu if you want to know more about MDMA. Theres lots of MDMA-Nazi's here...

[bedake]

yea blue light is pretty cool, but they all flamed me when i brought up plugging awhile back, or that was here i cant remember... I dunno but there is a whole nother article about people who die from ecstasy, very interesting read, im gonna look for that

[sanfrancyan]

yea but in the end does the argument even matter? Im going to use it if it causes me to go brain dead or not.

yes it matters.....

its a good way to learn stuff you dont. discussion is a good thing.

[bedake]

well i already knew both sides of the argument, i guess to me it doesnt matter... i was kinda trying to ya know like be nice and stop the bickering

PLUR

[420mory]

Sounds very strange combining a chemical with a natural product. I both have completely different associations with them. X feels like pure euphoria but you can feel in you body that its pure chemistry. Things like ephedrine I place as a feeling also in this category , although its naturally product.

The shrooms are pure nature for me and it really defines the feeling and the trip for me. A more down to earth basic feeling. Especially when done in nature you can really feel your self connected with it.

So its first the X and then the shrooms ? or both at the same time ?

[Nullific]

It's possible your pills were contaminated, lots of them are. High quality MDMA always left me feeling nothing but divine. With mushrooms it is just fucking amazing. You eat the mushrooms first and wait about half an hour before taking the ecstasy. This way the shrooms manifest first but it wont be long before the MDMA comes along and both peak in unison.

For the record you're combining a natural chemical with a synthetic chemical derived from a natural chemical. As if it really matters.

[420mory]

Perhaps its because I took X too many times. Don't get me wrong its probably the best thing there is but I still feel it as a chemical feeling. The euphoria is great and doesn't feel fake and chemical or anything but my body still feels quite chemical, with shrooms its completely different for me.

Interesting combination though, let us know how it was , I am very curious.

[Nullific]

Divine is the only word that describes it.

[candy oasis]

i haven't heard much of mdma and shroums. i know if someones taking an anti-depressant it'll make the shroums twice as potent (ie taking 2 grams would be the same as four) i imagine it would be a bit more dangerous and might do something similar to this. ilve heard of people ideed having bad trips but that may also have been cause the pills they did weren't the greatest or had other shit in them as well if you know your shit is pur for sure then it should be a bit safer.

[Solistus]

I suggest you watch this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt6PHhOZ32g&search=mdma

It was run on ABC (hosted by Peter Jennings), and deals pretty honestly with the science of MDMA. The honest answer at this point is that we don't know what the long-term effects are, but, when used properly and not in great excess, it appears to be extremely safe. In my opinion, it is similar to mushrooms in that it should be respected and not seen as merely another way to get "fucked up." Before it became illegal and gained popularity as a dance/recreational drug, it was primarily seen as an empathogen and was used more for personal discovery and development than for fun (although it is very fun!).

To clarify, using it just for fun isn't inherently evil - that kind of reasoning is just silly - but purely recreational users tend to use more of it more often, which increases the risk of physical harm. It's your body; be careful with it. That said, it's tragic to see the disgusting lies purported by authority figures working so well with MDMA, even amongst people who have realised that similar lies about things like pot are, well, lies.

[IlikeBongs]

dude wow. mdma does cause permanent braindamage but it does not intefere with acadmeic intelegence. studies have shown that in 4-year collages people who suffer from escasy-related brain damaged' gpa's are jsut as good or very slithly worse than those who are drug free.

[Leanmeansmoknmachine]

could you please let me no how it goes if you do it(im thinkin of doing it myself). Some of my friends have done it and have given mixed responces, saying its The best thing you will ever do or the normal 'rushy' feeling of the MDMA felt real bad because of the shrooms.

[tetraluiscannabinol]

hi

this is my first post, please be gentle!

ive had a lot of pills, mdma crystal, and shrooms before.

i ate pills for 4 years on and off, 1998-2002,

i used to like shrooms, u know the big ones that look like a strange penis? well... me and mate used to have 14 - 28gs fresh and have a colourful time!

we got 1/8oz mdma, and had a lovely time, best mates!

then we decided to have 100mgs each of mdma and 8gs or so of shrooms for brekfast, then got bored and went out. we didnt come up for ages, so went to a national park to chill and had another dab of mdma, then all went wierd, i had a massive headache, confusion, and those horrible shroom feelings before u come up. all day i felt heavy like the shrooms were fighting the mdma, u know the feeling they give u, inner vision telling me mdma is bad stuff reguarly.

since that every time ive had shrooms, big ones, natural, and the strong ones with medium caps and small stalks, i feel dirty, like a druggie and get really depressed, but when i wake up, yay im sweeet again trip over!

so moral of my story is,

if youve over done e dont take with shrooms, or have a little e first, cum up then have a small dose of shrooms. dont over do it!

and eat/drink "marmite" for mushroom sickness relief!

bye!

[Nullific]

Well individual reactions to these substances vary especially when you're combining them. It is possible that it was all psychosomatic, or a little too much on the shroom end (8grams dry??).

[thcbongman]

I don't think the melty volcanic visuals goes well with a kicker like E. Acid's transparent symmetrical imagery between the slights of your eyes along with the colors, goes well with Ecstacy, it forces a positive mindset and makes acid quite a ride.