heaven and hell

[friendowl]

do you really believe that when you die your going to a heaven or hell.i doubt it

[beachguy in thongs]

Maybe hell is where the fearful go, because that's what their imagination is showing them.

[eg420ne]

Well all i can say is, we will know when we die.. To bad no 1 came back to tell us, even doh I have read a book called The Dogma of Hell and they tell about people coming back and warning certain people about the after-life.. Its an interesting book when stoned....... :twocents:

[SensiRide]

I doubt it, but nobdy can say for sure. I just find it hard to believe that anything will happen after this life, and even if it does, we probably wont have any recollection of this life. The point is - nobody will ever find out till they die - so we can talk and debate it all day long - the only time we will know for sure, is when we die.

I think as long as you live your life as a compassionate, caring, helpful person, then you have nothing to fear - so what if you smoke a little weed, or curse a little, or dont tell your boss when he overpays you........as long as you are generally a nice person inside, then everything should be ok........and if 'God' sends you to hell for not going to church every sunday, or getting intoxicated, then so be it, but I just try and be me, and hope for the best when my time is up here.

[eg420ne]

Well hell if god sends people to hell for smoking weed I guess i wont be too lonely, I have all of you there for company---lol

[beachguy in thongs]

Well all i can say is, we will know when we die.. To bad no 1 came back to tell us, even doh I have read a book called The Dogma of Hell and they tell about people coming back and warning certain people about the after-life.. Its an interesting book when stoned....... :twocents:
Get my picture off of there..., I mean, the girl from last night, well, okay.

Cool, picture of the chic-ita. :stoned:

[PureEvil760]

you only go to heaven or hell if you have a strong belief in them

[Musician]

What I cant understand is if God is all where the hell is hell?

Haha

[beachguy in thongs]

What I cant understand is if God is all where the hell is hell?



Maybe hell is where the fearful go, because that's what their imagination is showing them.
Hell is a product of our evil. The more our lives are filled with it, the more memories we will have of it, as we live it over in our own eternal hell. But, maybe Hell has a balcony.

[eg420ne]

Get my picture off of there..., I mean, the girl from last night, well, okay.

Cool, picture of the chic-ita. :stoned:
I ripped her off fair and square....

[beachguy in thongs]

No, she's all yours, just give her to me when you're done. And let me know where I can find more asses like that.

[eg420ne]

No, she's all yours, just give her to me when you're done. And let me know where I can find more asses like that.
You can have here shes a lil whore anyways--- :D Just gotta look around i forgot were i found her....

[beachguy in thongs]

She looks like she spends more time at the gym than whoring around.

[andruejaysin]

Even if you believe in God, I would guess when you expect entry into heaven, His answer would be something like "I gave you a lifetime, and still you expect more?" But extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, failing that then I think all that awaits you when you die is a grave. And even at that you had a lifetime, more than any of us had coming.

[intheclouds]

now that's deep

[beachguy in thongs]

Even if you believe in God, I would guess when you expect entry into heaven, His answer would be something like "I gave you a lifetime, and still you expect more?" But extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, failing that then I think all that awaits you when you die is a grave. And even at that you had a lifetime, more than any of us had coming.

Either way, we expect entry into the ground or incinerator. Some believe that it is only the first step.

[eg420ne]

She looks like she spends more time at the gym than whoring around.
Ya she works out on deeezzzz nuuuuuuuuuuuutz--LOL she does look it huh.... :stoned:

[Oneironaut]

"Here's what happens when you die: you sit in a box and get eaten by worms. I guarantee you that when you die, nothing cool happens." —Howard Stern

I don't expect my life after death to be any different from the way it was before my birth, i.e. complete non-existence. How could I experience anything if my body no longer functions? Think about it this way. The brain is the seat of the mind and cognitive functions, and that's where consciousness comes from. There's no reason to think otherwise. When part of the brain is damaged, the cognitive functions connected to that part of the brain are impaired. Chemicals (drugs) can affect the way the mind works. These two facts show that the mind is not controlled by some supernatural "soul" that controls our body in mysterious and unmeasurable ways. It is controlled by a very real and very physical concrete entity inside our bodies, which is affected by physical stimuli. We don't see any weird breeches in the laws of physics going on in our heads. Any "soul" that was operating in some supernatural world affecting what is going on in our brains would have to break the laws of physics somewhere. Yet our brains, like the rest of the universe, are nothing more than energy and matter working in spacetime according to the laws of physics.

Suppose you damaged the part of your brain that processes sounds. You would be rendered deaf. Then suppose you damaged the part of your brain that is responsible for long-term memory. From then on your only memories would be of times after the accident. Suppose somehow the entire cerebral cortex of your brain got damaged. You would be capable of only the most basic survival mechanisms: heartbeat, breathing, digestion, etc. Now say you damaged your brain stem which is responsible for those survival mechanisms. Do you honestly think that all your cognitive functions and memories would be magically restored as you go on to eternal bliss in the sky? There is no reason for such an outrageous belief. The logical conclusion is that your consciousness would end. Without a brain you would have no way of sensing anything about the external universe and no way to think about anything. Emotions are demonstrably controlled by brain chemistry. Without brain chemicals like dopamine and serotonin, how can we experience this promised state of bliss? We need dopamine and serotonin to feel bliss. We need chemicals to have feelings. When these chemicals no longer function, how can our emotions? Saying consciousness can outlive the brain is like saying heartbeat can outlive the heart or that walking can outlive the legs.

This is not a very satisfying answer, but it is the right one. We want to live forever, and I can understand that (I used to believe it myself) but the fact is that there's no reason to believe this to be the case. Our minds seem to rely entirely on the proper functioning of our brains, and when our brains cease to function there is simply no mechanism for the mind to continue existence. But people invent paradises for themselves to go to, and often hells for the unbelievers to go to, and this is a dangerous belief for a couple reasons.

First and foremost, afterlife belief depreciates the value of the life we have here on earth, the only life we really have. If we constantly think of this as just some kind of short prelude to an eternal afterlife, we tend to ignore the importance of what we have here. People try to earn brownie points with their gods so they can get a good afterlife instead of getting up off their knees and helping their fellow man to enjoy life. How many massacres might have been avoided if there were no such thing as the maxim "Kill them all and let God sort them out"?

Some people say belief in Hell is necessary for morality, but this is a bunch of hogwash. People who act "morally" out of fear of Hell are not doing so out of a genuine desire to be nice, they are simply obeying blindly. If their God said stealing and murdering was moral, they'd have to go around stealing and murdering. And the trouble is, all the holy books which give people the idea that Hell is a real place have really questionable moral values in them. The Bible for instance contains many passages about slavery, animal sacrifice, homophobia, killing disobedient children, and committing genocide, all sanctioned by Yahweh.

The way I see it, if the universe was ruled by a loving God who designed a system of reward and punishment through a heaven/hell system, he would be decent enough to part the skies for us and give us, clearly and in modern English, the rules of the game. I can't respect any God who creates a world with many different religions and then asks us to take a gamble and hope we pick the right one, when there is no evidence that any of them are true. If God really wanted us to be moral to avoid Hell, he would come out of his hiding spot and tell us which Hell is the real one!

[sharpezor]

i am going to heaven

[MoonStarer420]

i am going to heaven

I thought St. Peter decides that for your religion. Plus why would you want to? All the exciting people would be down in hell; Jim Morrision, Jimmi Hendrix, Karl Marx, Julius C., Aristotle, common Aristotle, imagine getting boiled in a pot while chatting with Aristotle....if the place acually existed.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

oneironaut, how can you be so ignorant? you are not your body, you are your mind, your thoughts, your ego, you are the energy that keeps your body alive, that makes your brain work, the energy that makes your thoughts exist to you.

that energy is only imprisoned in your body for the life being...

[beachguy in thongs]

I thought St. Peter decides that for your religion. Plus why would you want to? All the exciting people would be down in hell; Jim Morrision, Jimmi Hendrix, Karl Marx, Julius C., Aristotle, common Aristotle, imagine getting boiled in a pot while chatting with Aristotle....if the place acually existed.
Jesus predicted to his disciples that they would "fall away" from him that night. Peter replied, "Even if all desert you, I will never desert you." Jesus answered, "In truth I tell you, this very night, before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times." Confronted after Jesus had been arrested, Peter did deny knowing Jesus to avoid being arrested himself. When he heard a cock crow, he remembered what Jesus had said, and wept. (Matt. 26:31-35, 69-75; Mark 14: 26-31, 66-72; Luke 22:31-34,54-62; John 18:15-18, 25-27).

[CocaCola]

oneironaut, how can you be so ignorant? you are not your body, you are your mind, your thoughts, your ego, you are the energy that keeps your body alive, that makes your brain work, the energy that makes your thoughts exist to you.

that energy is only imprisoned in your body for the life being...

How can you be so ignorant, Stoner Wolf Guy? Are you denying the fact that our mind isn't a conscious being itself and that it is a bunch of chemicals controlling our thoughts and emotions and movements and such?

Damn, I'm not saying that there isn't anything more to your mind and mental energy but these things work on so many different levels that to say that he is wrong just because you believe something different is really ignorant.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

yes i am denying that. it is not logical for thoughts to be in any way physical entities, or more than 'just' energy.

[CocaCola]

...

Question. Did I even say anything about physical entities? Re-read my post and try and try again. :D

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

wait... wow i think i took one too big a hit... bonged some resin... ingenious little idea i had... wow... :P


aanyways...


umm... i am saying that the mind is not the brain, and has nothing to do with the brain, except that the brain is a radio that can tune in and out to and from the mind.

i think my radio is a little broken though :(

[CocaCola]

I agree with you on that... but we weren't discussing the relation between the "physical brain" and the "mental mind". Or at least that is what I thought. I didn't even read the thread so HA!1

but anyways, you're not denying the existence of chemicals and receptors in the brain causing you to make up all the shit you sense physically?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

no, they are a part of what makes the brain work...


that'd be like saying the remote controll to the car doesnt have anything in it to make it work, it's jsut the user guiding it.... lol

[CocaCola]

but the chemicals = the batteries. LOL. So what are you going on about you stoned bastard! [I'm not, so I'm pretty upset about that :(]

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

ummmmm what arent you understanding here? i am saying that everything we know about the brain is correct, except that it is not a source of thought. it uses thought to transmit and recieve messages to and from the mind, which controlls the body, using the brain, like a remote controll...


it is a computer, it has memory, thought processor, and shows the mind what is going on, while the mind makes it do whatever the mind makes it do.

[CocaCola]

I get it now... yeah, it sounds plausible. In fact, for the most part I agree with you.

but now is it fair to declare Oneironaut another ignorant fuck (when he clearly is set apart from them) when he was just trying to explain how HE thought the brain worked?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

yes, because he's wrong and im right, and when you die, that will prove it, but otherwise, i dont want to prove it... murder aint nice.

[CocaCola]

So if you're right and he is wrong. What am I, right or wrong? Since I agree partially with you and partially with him, where does that leave me, huh?! So I'm the middle man, huh? THE MONKEY IN THE MIDDLE, EH?! FINE THEN, FUCK YOU GUYS!1 I guess I'll just leave and let you both fall into the abyss!

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

hehehe i came off as too serious :eek:

but ,ethinks you get it's joke, right? :D


ok, but seriously, im no that absolutely sure that i am right about it, but it is the most logical conclusion i've come to yet...
the only way to actually prove any of it is through astral projection, and even then, the ego can hold you back from discovering the true truth of the matter, and i dont know weather my ego holds me back or not, so i absolutely cannot say for a fact, but i believe it with as uch passion as fact... so...


im done talking now.

[CocaCola]

It is also the most logical conclusion I have come to... it is even something I've experienced so I can't deny it anyway. But that doesn't mean that Oneironaut is completely wrong about it all. Just as you're not sure if you're completely right. Right?

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

um... right, no one ever said he was completely wrong lol

and im pretty sure no one's saying im completely right :P

[psychopixi]

I don't believe that I'll go to heaven or hell when I die, but even if I am wrong, I cannot begin to imagine a God who would condemn people to hell for worshipping him under a different name. If I have lived a good life; haven't murdered, or raped or thieved or done anything other than believe in the God and Goddess, as opposed to the Christian God, why would I be condemned to eternal suffering?

And if that -is- all it takes to wind up in hell, then at least I'll have good company, because all of the interesting people seem to be headed that way.

[esrabalamir]

hmm i don't believe god, and i don't think there is heaven or hell after life

[beachguy in thongs]

Why don't you believe God, esra? He's only joking.

[CocaCola]

I'm fucking right!