Kerry and the drug war

[Libertarian Toker]

Some people seem to want to vote for Kerry in hopes he will make change. If your one of those people, you better think again. From Kerry's web site;

"Keep Drugs Out Of Our Communities
John Kerry and John Edwards will aggressively target drug traffickers and dealers and provide funding for coordinated regional efforts aimed at cracking down on drug trafficking. They will also adequately fund drug prevention and treatment, including innovative approaches to requiring treatment for offenders like drug courts."

I'm sorry, but re-education camps sound just as bad, or worse, then jail to me. "Aggressively" doesn't exactly sound like he plans to ease up on the drug war at all. If you include in the 100,000 more cops he say's he wants to put on the streets of the US, then it don't look to good on the front lines if Kerry gets in office.

The Toxic Career of Rand Beers
Kerry's Drug War Zealot
By SEAN DONAHUE

"When Rand Beers quit his job as counter-terrorism advisor to President Bush, and signed up with John Kerry's presidential campaign, he quickly became a hero to Democratic Party loyalists and the "Anybody but Bush" crowd. But Beers, who has become Kerry's top national security advisor and would likely serve as National Security Advisor or Secretary of State in a Kerry administration, has a dark history. Under Presidents Clinton and Bush, he served as Assistant Secretary of State for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, and was one of the chief architects of and apologists for the United States' cruel policies in Colombia.

Beers was most closely associated with the disastrous aerial crop fumigation program the U.S. introduced in southern Colombia. The State Department hired DynCorp, a private military contractor, to fly crop dusters at high altitudes over the rainforests of southern Colombia, spraying a chemical cocktail that includes a stronger version of Monsanto's popular and controversial herbicide, Round-Up, over suspected coca fields. Beers was the public face of the fumigation program, defending and advocating for it in Congressional hearings and in the media."

More here
http://www.counterpunch.org/donahue01262004.html

And here
Here is my take on the war on drugs. John Kerry
http://mysite.verizon.net/aahpat/2kerrtake.htm

More here
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/kerryprofile.htm

"As relations improved between the United States and the Soviet Union under Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, Kerry advocated deep cuts in military programs. He called for cutting $500 million from the "Star Wars" missile defense system and directing the funds to the war on drugs. He also proposed using military bases slated for closing as detention centers for first-time drug offenders."

Toker

[NowhereMan]

thats scary as hell

i would vote for nader ,,,,if he wasnt for same sex marriage
guess i stay a criminal a few more years,,ya know

[MRB041]

Same sex marriage is ok with me as long as im allowed to hit my bong whenever i want to.

[Json]

Shure man.They shoud be consentrating on heroin,and the rock man.
I say fuck the polticks, ther only after more money..
& that jon kerry can go to hell if hes being blaging about a couple of herbal plants & a couple of bong hits!!!

[Json]

WOT A FUCK FACE!!!!!!! I AM geting prety eritated!!! :mad:


wiv got a posible 182 on hour arms.....
som1 shot the fucker!

[HvyFuel]

Don't believe everything you read Json, the Libs would like people to think they're the only ones who support cannabis use...

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0720-10.htm

peace ;)

[NowhereMan]

i just happen to be stuck with very few chioces
not voting aint one of them

[Libertarian Toker]

Don't believe everything you read Json, the Libs would like people to think they're the only ones who support cannabis use...

peace ;)


Well, that first part is from his web site, and seems to be his position on the drug war since it is his stated position on the drug war. If he is going to aggressively wage the drug war, and he will, then your not just voting out bushy, your also voting for an aggressive drug war. Your vote will tell them that is what you want to have happen. Don't be suprised if you get what you vote for.

Research??? Your link took me to a place that said Kerry supported research. The research has been done, and done over and over again. All that mess is just the bone he is throwing to make you think he, well, I guess to think he supports "cannabis use" as that is what your trying to say with your reply. What exactly do you mean by supporting "cannabis use" anyway. If you really think that Kerry is supporting cannabis use, you better think again. Detention centers for first time offenders, and Drug courts, sounds like total BS to me, not support.

Toker

[HvyFuel]

Sorry Toker but you're talking about all drugs again. We've had this argument before and I agree with legalising all drugs but in the US at the moment herion and crack have as much chance of being legalised as the Libs have of getting elected.

Oh and research?? A Libertarian newsletter, someone's personal homepage, and USA Today! Pot calling the kettle black methinks.

peace :)

[Libertarian Toker]

Sorry Toker but you're talking about all drugs again. We've had this argument before and I agree with legalising all drugs but in the US at the moment herion and crack have as much chance of being legalised as the Libs have of getting elected.

Oh and research?? A Libertarian newsletter, someone's personal homepage, and USA Today! Pot calling the kettle black methinks.

peace :)


I think you may need to read what I wrote again, and try to understand what it is I am saying. This time, try to remember that some of that research I did was at Kerry's web site. I know it's hard to find on your own, so I will get the link for you if you need me to. How much more research do you think really needs to be done on weed to know it makes a good medicine? If it's research in that department that you want, then I can get you as many links to research on medical cannabis as you want. That is why I brought up research. All he has done is support researching weed as medicine! If thats the best we can hope for, then we truely are fucked. You come off like he is some kind of a weed hero. I don't see it. All I see is someone that will continue to do what Bushy is doing, and it looks like where the drug war is concerned, it could get worse if Kerry is elected.

I don't base my vote on the drug war alone, but I will never vote for someone that wants to continue the drug war. If someone can overlook all the jacked up things wrong with it, and wish to continue it or even do more, then that someone has no biz being prez. If he is to weak to admit the drug war is a failure, or just to stupid to know better then to continue the drug war, then why in the hell would I vote for him? Oh yeah, to be a part of the "anything but Bushy" herd. No thanks man! I have to live with my vote. You don't. You won't be the one facing the chance of detention camps for first time drug offenders on military base's.

Who votes for who in the USA's elections would kind of be like me telling the Iraqi's who they should vote for. Not a very productive thing to do if ya ask me, since it really isn't up to you to try and decide for US. I don't really mind though, it gives me something to do, and at least your intrested. Not many people really are any more. They just hop on board and go for the ride without ever knowing where their going.

Toker

[HvyFuel]

If you were quoting from Kerry's website why didn't you put the link on in the first place? That is standard practice.

Kerry's stance on cannabis is a damn site better than Bush's, I can't see Bush voting to speed up the only research they are going to accept no matter how much independant research you'd care to show them. In this election there's nobody else worth voting for.

And I'll air my opinion on any election I wish to thanks. With or without your blessing.

peace :)

[Libertarian Toker]

"If you were quoting from Kerry's website why didn't you put the link on in the first place?"

I did say in my original post that it was from his web site. I forgot the link. I won't always stay in step with what you think is standard practice, so deal with it.

"Kerry's stance on cannabis is a damn site better than Bush's"

If they are the same, how can one be better then the other? A "damn sight better"??? Why? If you think his support for research makes him a damn sight better, you had better think again. Badnariks stance is a damn sight better. Kerry's is nothing but the same old shit rehashed, with some extra tyranny thrown in for good measure.

"I can't see Bush voting to speed up the only research they are going to accept no matter how much independant research you'd care to show them."

And I can't see Kerry doing anything to end the drug war either. Opp's, I forgot that you don't care about the drug war as a whole, only weed matters to you. Kerry will do nothing but continue to jail people for weed. If you support him, you support that action, and you do seem to support him.

"In this election there's nobody else worth voting for."

Kerry is not worth voting for. There is someone worth voting for though, his name is Badnarik. Kerry is as unworthy as Bushy is. They will do the same things. More troops to Iraq, more drug war, more taxes, more prisons, more laws, more cops, more tyranny, less Freedom, the list goes on and on.

"And I'll air my opinion on any election I wish to thanks. With or without your blessing."

Airing your opinion, and trying to sway voters, is two different things. Even more so when your not exactly truthfull with your words. Kerry does not "support cannabis use" in any shape or form, nor does the LP wish for people to think they are the only ones that wish to legalize it. When you make shit up to try and change a voters mind in a country your not even a part of, it's my opinion that is not a very productive thing to be doing. The last time we had a liberal prez, more people were jailed for weed then at any other time. Tell me why I should I think it will be any different this time?

Toker

[HvyFuel]

"I forgot the link. I won't always stay in step with what you think is standard practice, so deal with it. "

Sorry, you're so much better than everyone else that nobody ever doubts you. I've seen a site that says GW wants to legalise crack but I've gone and forgotten the link. Yeah, right.

"If they are the same, how can one be better then the other?"

They aren't, as I explained. It must be hard for you to understand when you break everything up instead of reading statements as a whole.

"And I can't see Kerry doing anything to end the drug war either."

All drugs together again when I've quite clearly stated my opinion that we have a better chance of them being legalised one at a time.

"Opp's, I forgot that you don't care about the drug war as a whole, only weed matters to you."

You don't even remember your own conversations.

"Kerry will do nothing but continue to jail people for weed. If you support him, you support that action, and you do seem to support him."

I can never get my crystal ball to see four years into the future, the LP must be really good at making up balls. And you're quite right, in my opinion, of the two people that have a chance of winning, I do favour Kerry.

"Airing your opinion, and trying to sway voters, is two different things."

Why else would you bother? If I wanted to post on a forum where people had no minds of their own to debate the point I'd post on Marihemp Market Place. It's hardly my fault if my opinion makes people reconsider theirs.

"Even more so when your not exactly truthfull with your words. Kerry does not "support cannabis use" in any shape or form"

Voting to stop the DEA dragging it's arse isn't supporting "in any shape or form"?
You might want to rephrase that.

"nor does the LP wish for people to think they are the only ones that wish to legalize it."

It must be just you then.

"When you make shit up to try and change a voters mind in a country your not even a part of, it's my opinion that is not a very productive thing to be doing."

Quite right, if I did it wouldn't be, but I don't have to. And when the present administration of the country involved is making the world a more dangerous place I doubt there are many countries with citizens who wouldn't wish to sway the vote against it.

"The last time we had a liberal prez, more people were jailed for weed then at any other time. Tell me why I should I think it will be any different this time? "

It's a long time since I had to explain basic maths but when something is illegal for a long time the conviction rate often increases yearly along with the population. Bush senior had lower figures than Clinton, Clinton had lower figures than Bush Junior. This only really changes when the law does.

At the moment I think you're doing a far better job at swaying voters toward Kerry than I am.

peace :)

[Libertarian Toker]

"Sorry, you're so much better than everyone else that nobody ever doubts you. I've seen a site that says GW wants to legalise crack but I've gone and forgotten the link. Yeah, right."

Grumpy ain't ya? I did say were it came from. Kerrys web site! Get it yet? It's still there, all ya gotta do is go there. Seeings how much you favour him, looks like you would have already been there to check out what he actualy stands for. I guess if your part of the "anyone but bush herd" it doesn't really matter. If you doubt me so much, go to the Kerry web site and see for your damn self where he stands on the drug war. If your to much of an idiot to find it on your own, you have but to ask and I will produce it for you.

"They aren't, as I explained."

They are, as I explained. Tell me oh explainitive one, what is the difference in the two?

"It must be hard for you to understand when you break everything up instead of reading statements as a whole"

No, it's not that hard. As a matter of fact it's kind of easy. Attacks on writing styles usually means the attacker has a weak aguement. Or a weak mind. Whats your excuse?

"All drugs together again when I've quite clearly stated my opinion that we have a better chance of them being legalised one at a time."

You don't have any chance of legalized weed under Kerry.

"I can never get my crystal ball to see four years into the future"

You don't need one. All you have to do is read about Kerry and the drug war to know that he will continue it. I guess your crystal ball don't work to good were Kerry is concerned either. Seems you think he will up and legalize weed because he voted in favour of research. It's a pretty far stretch of the imagination to think that way, so you must be seeing it in one of your Kerry balls.

"And you're quite right, in my opinion, of the two people that have a chance of winning, I do favour Kerry."

Well good for you. I wonder how long that favour will last if he is elected and continues the oppression of weed tokers?

"Voting to stop the DEA dragging it's arse isn't supporting "in any shape or form"? You might want to rephrase that."

I don't have to rephrase it, you just did. Voting to continue dragging their ass is what he did. Voting for research is not supporting "cannabis use" in any shape of form. It is support for testing it. It means nothing. Since our government already gives out weed to some people, looks like they already know about it's qualitys. If he wants to support weed, he should do it right, like Mike does. Your "Kerry supports cannabis use" arguement is the lamest one you have come up with yet. What else do you think he will do better then Bushy? Will he end the war in Iraq? Will he get rid of the patriot act? I'm thinking since you can't even find his web site that you don't know what he is planning to do on any issue.

"It must be just you then."

Or maybe it's just you!

"Quite right, if I did it wouldn't be, but I don't have to. And when the present administration of the country involved is making the world a more dangerous place I doubt there are many countries with citizens who wouldn't wish to sway the vote against it."

Oh but you did make shit up. It's all right there home boy. Your statement that Libertarians want people to think they are the only ones that wish to legalize is a lie. If you can prove that statement true, I would like to see it. What was it that you were doing with that lie anyway? Oh yeah, you were trying to sway a voter in another country.

"Clinton had lower figures than Bush Junior."

Show me the numbers if ya would, or should I just take your word for it since your so much better then the rest of us?

"At the moment I think you're doing a far better job at swaying voters toward Kerry than I am."

Really? It could be that you can't stand being bested, and your saying that is a way to make yourself feel better about your arguement being so lame. Usually when people have to say something like that, it ain't true.

Toker

[Libertarian Toker]

Medical Marijuana and the Federal War on Drugs
In the 2000 campaign for president, George W. Bush said that the federal government should not interfere with the medical marijuana policies of the several states. Like so many other promises, he went back on his word and has closed down medical marijuana facilities permitted by state governments.

This is an outrage. The federal government has no constitutional authority to interfere with state drug policies. When the federal government outlawed alcohol, it required a constitutional amendment to do so. Nonetheless it has assumed the legal authority to wage its "War on Drugs."

According to nearly every scientific study on the subject, including ones conducted by the government, medical marijuana provides unique relief to patients suffering from cancer, AIDS, glaucoma and other illnesses, and the drug does not have the same addictive properties as alcohol.

The federally approved Marinol contains the psychoactive THC but lacks other cannabinoids crucial to marijuana as an effective medicine. This is one of the many insanities of federal drug policy, which categorizes a plant that has never been shown to kill anyone as more illegal than cocaine, and certainly more illegal than alcohol.

Though smoking marijuanaâ??just as smoking tobaccoâ??can cause harm to the lungs and respiratory system, the drug can also be ingested and vaporized so as to prevent such unwanted side effects.

On a fundamental level, Libertarians believe that it is the unalienable and constitutional right of individuals to medicate themselves and choose for themselves what to put into their bodies, as long as they live up to the consequences of their actions. The federal government has no proper say in the matter, and state governments violate the rights of the people in their own attempts to enforce morality. The decision to ingest, smoke or consume any drug should be up to the individual, under the advice of his or her physician, when appropriate. Locking people up for trying to relieve their pain is cruel and unusual punishment for an act that hurts no one.

The Drug War has led to some of the worst violations of the constitutional liberties of Americans, as well as to the worst wave of violent crime in American history since Alcohol Prohibition. It has been used to rationalize unlawful searches and seizures, corruption of the court system, no-knock raids, racial profiling, and "civil asset forfeiture"â??a policy whereby government officials can confiscate private property without even charging anyone with a crime. The War on Drugs, more than anything else, has served as a means of destroying the Bill of Rights. It has also led to excessive taxes and spending, costing more than 40 billion dollars a year to arrest, prosecute and imprison non-violent drug offenders.

Drug Prohibition has caused gang warfare and other violent crime by raising the prices of drugs so much that vicious criminals enter the market to make astronomical profits, and addicts rob and steal to get money to pay the inflated prices for their drugs. On average, drug prisoners spend more time in federal prison than rapists, who often get out on early release because of the over-crowding in prison caused by the Drug War. While violent criminals can usually have their sentences reduced, drug offenders are subject to "mandatory minimums," which strip away judicial discretion and force judges to put users and dealers in prison for decades. This has to stop.

The Drug War also has funded terrorists; providing them with opportunities for enormous profits, and even by giving foreign aid to such regimes as the Taliban as long as they promised to have "tough drug" policies.

The Drug War does not curb demand, it barely reduces supply, however it makes America much more dangerous and much less free.

A Libertarian president would order federal officials to cease and desist in harassing medical marijuana patients and would block federal spending on the War on Drugs. Nonviolent drug offenders would be released from federal prison, and each state would choose its own drug policy, just as each chose its own alcohol policy when alcohol Prohibition was repealed. Libertarians would hope and expect most states to come around and severely reform their policies to make them more humane and less at odds with the Constitution and the American way of life.

I'm Michael Badnarik, Libertarian for President. I ask the tough questions---to give you answers that really work!

[Sinsemilla Jones]

If I wanted to post on a forum where people had no minds of their own to debate the point I'd post on Marihemp Market Place.



Maybe you're more influenced by LT than you think.

LOL!

-Sinse

[heartsurgerysurviver]

Maybe, just maybe, you are influenced a bit by CR. Birds of a feather........usually shit off the same power lines, LOL. heart :D

[Sinsemilla Jones]

Maybe you were too influenced by TH.

But no hard feelings here.
I truly hope you and Rita are doing well.

For that matter, I hope Tony's doing well, too.

-Sinse

[HvyFuel]

Sinse - I was convinced by Toker of the need to legalise all drugs but my opinion of Market Place was formed by the moron moderating it banning anyone who disagrees with his pets.

Toker - "Grumpy ain't ya?"

Only when people think they're so much better than everyone else. I know very well where johnkerry.com is but then I wasn't the one quoting from it.

"I guess if your part of the "anyone but bush herd" it doesn't really matter."

If I were part of that 'herd' I'd consider wasting my vote on the LP, but as I have no vote to cast I'll continue urging people to vote for the only viable alternative to Bush.

"Tell me oh explainitive one, what is the difference in the two?"

'Kerry's stance on cannabis is a damn site better than Bush's, I can't see Bush voting to speed up the only research they are going to accept no matter how much independent research you'd care to show them.' Reading statements as a whole often helps.

"Attacks on writing styles usually means the attacker has a weak aguement. Or a weak mind. Whats your excuse? "

I don't need one but what's yours?

"You don't have any chance of legalized weed under Kerry." ...
"All you have to do is read about Kerry and the drug war to know that he will continue it. I guess your crystal ball don't work to good were Kerry is concerned either."

Wait, the mists are clearing, Kerry in the Whitehouse and the LP with less than 10% again. See, it does work. Bye, bye, Asscroft, hello medical use, ...hello legalisation. It's not hard to work out if you take off the LP blinkers.

"Voting to continue dragging their ass is what he did."

To do that he didn't need to bother voting.

"Or maybe it's just you! "

It's me trying to make people think only the LP will change anything? You make less sense as you go along.

"Oh but you did make shit up. It's all right there home boy. Your statement that Libertarians want people to think they are the only ones that wish to legalize is a lie."

Then it's a lie you are trying to make people believe. I'm not debating with the LP, I'm debating with one person last time I checked.

"It could be that you can't stand being bested"

By who? All you've done is snipe and you're a poor shot.

"..and your saying that is a way to make yourself feel better about your arguement being so lame."

All arguments but yours are lame aren't they? After all, yours is the only opinion that should be heard so let's call everyone stupid and hope they go away.

"Usually when people have to say something like that, it ain't true."

Given the previous statement you should know.

peace :)

[Sinsemilla Jones]

...my opinion of Market Place was formed by the moron moderating it banning anyone who disagrees with his pets.


I've been a member over there for over two years, and I've disagreed with just about everybody at one time or another. Even disagreed with CR on an issue that pertained directly to the subject matter of the board, so I guess they screwed up in not banning me. But then again, I didn't accuse him of being a parasite or on the take like has been done a million times by scammers and trolls over there.

-Sinse

[HvyFuel]

Market Place - Waste of forum space, not interested. Your compatriots are fond of saying if you like posting there so much why are you here? A majority of spoilt brats lead by an arsehole IMHO.

Have a nice day.

[NowhereMan]

"If you were quoting from Kerry's website why didn't you put the link on in the first place?"

I did say in my original post that it was from his web site. I forgot the link. I won't always stay in step with what you think is standard practice, so deal with it.

"Kerry's stance on cannabis is a damn site better than Bush's"

If they are the same, how can one be better then the other? A "damn sight better"??? Why? If you think his support for research makes him a damn sight better, you had better think again. Badnariks stance is a damn sight better. Kerry's is nothing but the same old shit rehashed, with some extra tyranny thrown in for good measure.

"I can't see Bush voting to speed up the only research they are going to accept no matter how much independant research you'd care to show them."

And I can't see Kerry doing anything to end the drug war either. Opp's, I forgot that you don't care about the drug war as a whole, only weed matters to you. Kerry will do nothing but continue to jail people for weed. If you support him, you support that action, and you do seem to support him.

"In this election there's nobody else worth voting for."

Kerry is not worth voting for. There is someone worth voting for though, his name is Badnarik. Kerry is as unworthy as Bushy is. They will do the same things. More troops to Iraq, more drug war, more taxes, more prisons, more laws, more cops, more tyranny, less Freedom, the list goes on and on.

"And I'll air my opinion on any election I wish to thanks. With or without your blessing."

Airing your opinion, and trying to sway voters, is two different things. Even more so when your not exactly truthfull with your words. Kerry does not "support cannabis use" in any shape or form, nor does the LP wish for people to think they are the only ones that wish to legalize it. When you make shit up to try and change a voters mind in a country your not even a part of, it's my opinion that is not a very productive thing to be doing. The last time we had a liberal prez, more people were jailed for weed then at any other time. Tell me why I should I think it will be any different this time?

Toker

well im trying to make Kerry aware of the fact I WANT WEED LEGAL
and so do millions of others
to bad they dont vote and and let them know how and why they vote
i like kerry's education mumbo jumbo,(its all mumbo jumbo)to me they all cheat lie and wipe thier ass ,they human afterall,they are politicians


if i vote for his ass it to remove bush
and if he acts like bush
he will have four year to plan his next job

peace

ps just for u my friend
http://www.johnkerry.com/front/splash.html

[Libertarian Toker]

"Only when people think they're so much better than everyone else. I know very well where johnkerry.com is but then I wasn't the one quoting from it."

Well since you can read my mind, what is it that I am thinking now? Don't know? Hmmm, I guess you don't really know what it is I think after all, do ya?

"If I were part of that 'herd' I'd consider wasting my vote on the LP, but as I have no vote to cast I'll continue urging people to vote for the only viable alternative to Bush."

And you say I don't make any sense! Funny, but isn't your statement there kind of a contradiction? I mean if you would vote for the LP(Libertarian Party) then why would you urge people to vote for demonrats? by the way, Libertarians hold a lot of elected offices, over 600 I believe. No chance of a Libertarian getting elected into public office? You better think again.

""Tell me oh explainitive one, what is the difference in the two?"

'Kerry's stance on cannabis is a damn site better than Bush's, I can't see Bush voting to speed up the only research they are going to accept no matter how much independent research you'd care to show them.' Reading statements as a whole often helps."

Thats the only difference you can think of? Not much of a difference is it? Maybe you should try reading the whole Kerry instead of just a part of him.

"I don't need one but what's yours?"

Sure ya do man, you just can't admit it.

"Wait, the mists are clearing, Kerry in the Whitehouse and the LP with less than 10% again. See, it does work. Bye, bye, Asscroft, hello medical use, ...hello legalisation. It's not hard to work out if you take off the LP blinkers."

If you want to say hello to medical use and legalization, Kerry is not your man. He will not do those things. Your blind if you think he will.

"To do that he didn't need to bother voting."

Sure he did. He needed to give you a bone. Looks like it worked in your case.

"It's me trying to make people think only the LP will change anything?"

No, it's you trying say what Libertarians think. It's also you that is trying to say that Kerry is the only one that will change anything, when really he will change nothing.

"Then it's a lie you are trying to make people believe. I'm not debating with the LP, I'm debating with one person last time I checked."

You wanna show me where I said Libertarians were the only ones wanting to legalize? Back up your false acusation with a little fact if ya can. For some reason just you saying it doesn't mean a whole lot to me. As for your one person debate, when you claim Libertarians want people to think they are the only ones that are for legalization, your not just talking about me. You know what they say about liers, when they get cought in one lie, they usually try telling another to cover that one. You will get a lot farther debating me with the truth then you will with lies.

"By who? All you've done is snipe and you're a poor shot."

By me! Funny thing is that I have done it to you while being a poor shot. That don't say much for you does it. I'll tell ya a little secret hvy, if ya don't let words bother you, you won't get so upset that you have to make shit up to feel better about your arguement.

"All arguments but yours are lame aren't they?"

No, just yours on this subject.

"After all, yours is the only opinion that should be heard so let's call everyone stupid and hope they go away."

I don't want you go away. I like arguing with ya. I have seen you call to have people banned though, so I guess your kind of a hypocrite as well as lier. Why you need to make shit up I don't understand, but what the hell, your still fun to play with. Yep, I want my opinion of the drug war heard, and the LP's opinion of the drug war heard also. Is that a crime in England to want to have your opinion heard? When you constently have to make up shit about me that I know is not true, it makes you look rather silly to me. Since your only debating one person, you should know better then to say things about that person that that they know are not true. It tends to make you look like a lier to the very person your trying to debate. You don't need the personal insults, and untrue acusations. I'm fairly sure you could make an arguement without them. Then again, maybe not.

Toker

[Sinsemilla Jones]

Market Place - Waste of forum space, not interested. Your compatriots are fond of saying if you like posting there so much why are you here? A majority of spoilt brats lead by an arsehole IMHO.

Have a nice day.

And I'll post anywhere I damn well please.

I'm able to do it without getting banned.

You have a good one, too.

-Sinse

[Libertarian Toker]

Well Man, I hope you will at least consider voting localy for Libertarians.

Here is something just for you.

Heâ??s a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.

Doesnâ??t have a point of view,
Knows not where heâ??s going to,
Isnâ??t he a bit like you and me?
Nowhere man, please listen,
You donâ??t know what youâ??re missing,
Nowhere man, the world is at your command.

Heâ??s as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,
Nowhere man can you see me at all?
Doesnâ??t kave a point of view,
Knows not where heâ??s going to,
Isnâ??t he a bit like you and me?
Nowhere man, donâ??t worry,
Take your time, donâ??t hurry,
Leave it all till somebody else
Lend you a hand.

Heâ??s a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.

It fits you pretty good actualy.

Toker

[Sinsemilla Jones]

That's what they said about Jesse Ventura.

-Sinse

[Sinsemilla Jones]

You know who Lennon wrote that song about, LT?

Himself.

-Sinse

[Libertarian Toker]

And I'll post anywhere I damn well please.

I'm able to do it without getting banned.

You have a good one, too.

-Sinse

He may be hoping you'll go away Sinse.

First he wrote this;

"And I'll air my opinion on any election I wish to thanks. With or without your blessing."

Then he wrote this;

"All arguments but yours are lame aren't they? After all, yours is the only opinion that should be heard so let's call everyone stupid and hope they go away."

Then he wrote this;

"Your compatriots are fond of saying if you like posting there so much why are you here? A majority of spoilt brats lead by an arsehole IMHO."

Maybe he thinks if he calls you a spoiled brat you will go away, and take your opinion with you. Or maybe he is just kind of hypocritical. No real big deal, we all are to some extent.

Toker

[Libertarian Toker]

You know who Lennon wrote that song about, LT?

Himself.

-Sinse

That may be, but it fits nowhereman pretty good.

Toker

[Sinsemilla Jones]

But surely you realize that a guy who calls himself NowhereMan is probably quite aware of that song, and, in fact, probably named himself after it.

So posting that song to him is kinda like someone posting to you that there's a political party called the Libertarians.

ROFL!

-Sinse

[HvyFuel]

"And I'll post anywhere I damn well please. " I seem to remember quite a few people saying that on Market Place just before they got banned.

- - -

I'm not making anything up as you are quite well aware Toker. Most of your posts imply the LP are the only ones who will change anything and are intended to do so. Such is the way of political debate online. Everyone does it.

And I enjoy talking to you too btw. I quietly support many of the LP's policies and I'm a member of the Liberal Democrats here. My only concern is that the LP aren't strong enough yet and they'll mainly take votes from the Dems, leaving Bush in power. If I thought they had a chance I'd be campaigning with you.

peace :)

[Libertarian Toker]

But surely you realize that a guy who calls himself NowhereMan is probably quite aware of that song, and, in fact, probably named himself after it.

So posting that song to him is kinda like someone posting to you that there's a political party called the Libertarians.

ROFL!

-Sinse

Really??? No shit??? Your kidding right? You mean he already knew about that song? Geez, what a moron I am to post it for him. Actualy, posting the song was a tribute to him. I expect that he knows why I did it. No need for me to explain it to you, as I doubt you could grasp the concept of why I did it.

Toker

[Sinsemilla Jones]

"And I'll post anywhere I damn well please. " I seem to remember quite a few people saying that on Market Place just before they got banned.


Now, if I went on to make baseless accusations against the elders and mods of this board, told NowhereMan he didn't have the right to ban people, made empty threats against the board and its owners, and wouldn't stop my trollish behavior even after told by the moderator to shut up or I'd be banned, then I would expect NowhereMan to ban my ass! And I'm sure he would. Because NowhereMan is a good moderator deserving of my respect just like the mods of MHMP. People get banned there for the same reasons they get banned here, for being assholes who just don't fucking get it.

-Sinse

[Sinsemilla Jones]

He's a real libertarian toker man
Sitting in his libertarian toker land
Making all his libertarian toker plans
For nobody......apparently, from all the converts you made on this thread, lol.

-Sinse

[Libertarian Toker]

"I'm not making anything up as you are quite well aware Toker. Most of your posts imply the LP are the only ones who will change anything and are intended to do so. Such is the way of political debate online. Everyone does it."

Thats just not true man. The drug war is a major issue for me. Your trying to tell me I think a certain way, when I don't. My post's imply that the LP is against the drug war, that is all it implys. Never have I implyed that we are the only people that want to end it. Yes, I do post about the drug war and the LP's position on it a lot. This is a political board on a web site that fights the drug war. What do you think someone that calls himself Libertarian Toker is going to do here? I can tell you what I won't do, and that's claim Kerry is sypathetic to our cause when he is not. I'm guessing that if I was saying the same crap about bushy you would not be so eager to try and dissagree with me. If you truely want the change you claim to want, then it wouldn't matter to you that it looks like the LP stands no chance to have people elected, you would be fighting to give them that chance, which is what I do. If you don't fight for what you believe in, your chance will never come around.

"And I enjoy talking to you too btw."

Cool, you were starting to sound like you were getting a little bent about my words. I was starting to think maybe you didn't like me much because of it. It's hard to learn from people that only agree, and I like to learn.

"If I thought they had a chance I'd be campaigning with you."

If everyone that thought like that would campain with me, then we would stand a chance. What your doing is continuing the cycle of no one but the two major partys having a chance. If you think the LP is better then what we have to choose from, why not support them and try to get them the chance they so rightly deserve?

Toker

[Libertarian Toker]

Let me ask you this Hvy, if Kerry was elected and proved to be just as bad as bushy, would you then work to have the Republican running against him in the next election voted in to office for the same reasons you want Kerry in now? Would you campaign for a repo for the same reasons you are doing it for Kerry? If so, when is it that a third party would ever have a way to get the chance to be elected if everyone keeps voting one out instead of one in? I don't want to lay a bunch of blame on you, but it is that type of thinking that steals away the LP's, or any third partys chances.

Toker

[Libertarian Toker]

"People get banned there for the same reasons they get banned here, for being assholes who just don't fucking get it."

I wonder why you haven't been banned from both places yet! Say Sinse, can you tell me which of those reasons you gave it was that got me banned? Please, I would like to know what you think the reason was for my banning.

Toker

[HvyFuel]

"if Kerry was elected and proved to be just as bad as bushy, would you then work to have the Republican running against him in the next election voted in to office for the same reasons you want Kerry in now?"

F*ck no! If the Republicans never get in again it will be too soon. I know it's a nasty word these days but I'm still a socialist at heart.

peace :)

[Libertarian Toker]

"if Kerry was elected and proved to be just as bad as bushy, would you then work to have the Republican running against him in the next election voted in to office for the same reasons you want Kerry in now?"

F*ck no! If the Republicans never get in again it will be too soon. I know it's a nasty word these days but I'm still a socialist at heart.

peace :)

It's cool man, I won't hold it against you, much. You do realize that socialism is on the oppisite side of the pole from Libertarianism though, right? Socialism is my worst nightmare. If you are quietly supporting many of the LP's policy's, then you might not be as socialist as you think you are.

Try these little tests and see what happens.

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/compare/

http://www.lp.org/quiz/

[heartsurgerysurviver]

Sinse
Rita and I are doing great, thanks for asking. I hope everything is going great for you too. TH isnâ??t doing well at all, in and out of the hospital, itâ??s only a matter of time before, well you know. The MP is the same old crap run by the same crappy mods. If CR didnâ??t have his business heâ??d of been banned long ago. Havenâ??t you noticed all the members that just arenâ??t posting? From hemp to mds, peeps have left, probably due to his highness. Sad real sad. I stand by my friends, through thick and thin , even through banning I stood by him. But CR has and will continue to think he is god almighty with all his small minded followers marching in step, kissing arse. So, getting banned was probably the best for me, but banning rita was uncalled for. But Iâ??m taking about CR, so I donâ??t expect objectivity, just biased thinking. Iâ??d rather be THâ??s friend and help him in his time of need than one of CRâ??s arse kissers. LOL
Take care sinse and may life treat you well.

I thought it is Now-here-man , not No-where-man LOL.

Peace heart

2 wrongs donâ??t make a right, 3 lefts do!

[HvyFuel]

You preferred the Democratic stance for 1 issue. Democratic Platform

You preferred the Green stance for 3 issues. Green Platform

You preferred the Libertarian stance for 3 issues. Libertarian Platform.

You preferred the Republican stance for 0 issues. Republican Platform.

And I was right in the middle of Left Liberal and Libertarian on the other one.
As the results said, we agree on all issues of personal liberty but differ on government responsibility.
One quick question, if the LP " believe government's only purpose is to protect people from coercion and violence"
what's their stance on medical benefits for those unable to work through illness?

peace :)

[HvyFuel]

Oh and btw, thanks for attacking me for sticking up you in the bannings. I'll do the same for you one day.

peace :)

[Libertarian Toker]

Oh and btw, thanks for attacking me for sticking up you in the bannings. I'll do the same for you one day.

peace :)


What are you talking about???

Toker

[HvyFuel]

Meant to put 'for you' but it doesn't matter much on reflection.

peace

[damndrugtest]

I have been posting on the marketplace board for several months and I disagree with anyone who calls it a waste of space, I too like Sinsemilla have had my share of disagreements with people on that board, but we still manage to respect one another for the most part, I have even disagreed with Sinse more than once but never lost respect.

I remember the "Tommy Chong" thread that raised a ruckus, Forced Registration had a history of pissing off senior members on that board, his parasite comment would have probably not been that big a deal had it not been for his history, it was just the straw that broke the camels back, If I were a mod I don't know if I would have suspended him, but a strong warning would have been a minimum response.

Apparently he made friends on the politics board and some came on that thread and acted as if his suspension was the equivalent of the sky falling. Some even directly insulted the mods (quite a few of the insults were deleted), Those who criticize the market place board did not do their homework, Even site owner Ron Bennett came on and stated that different boards had different rules and said that all those suspended could be reinstated but it would be better if they stayed away from the Marketplace Board. Bennett's response said it all since it's HIS board. Those who don't like the MarketPlace board should stay away, and these ridiculous insults to the board members show a lack of intelligence.

DDT

[Libertarian Toker]

What history are you talking about with FR? The lesbo thread? Sorry charlie, that was an attack on him, and nothing eles. So when did pissing off senior members becaome a reason to be banned anyway? FR is a senior member, and if someone had told me I didn't deserve to live like was done to him, I would have done a lot worse then he did. Seems to me like that bitch that attacked him should have been banned for the totaly disgusting attack she made on FR, a senior marihemp board member.

"Apparently he made friends on the politics board and some came on that thread and acted as if his suspension was the equivalent of the sky falling"

"and these ridiculous insults to the board members show a lack of intelligence."

I guess that would make you a person lacking intelligence. None of my post's were deleted, can you tell me what it was you think got me banned?

"Even site owner Ron Bennett came on and stated that different boards had different rules"

Why don't you tell it all? What, is the fact that Ron agreed with forced not something you wish to share? Maybe you just forgot that he also addressed Yellowjackets advertising threat in a manner that was not negitive at all. His coming on and saying that those guys would be reinstated after the mods banned them permently does say it all, but not what you think it does. Of course someone lacking intelligence probably would think that Ron saying that permently banned people will be reinstated is some kind of a vote in favour of the mods actions. Personaly, I don't see the support for the mods actions in his words.

Toker

[Libertarian Toker]

Meant to put 'for you' but it doesn't matter much on reflection.

peace

I could see that part missing, still, what are you talking about? I attacked you for your agreeing with having certain people banned, and then pitching a bitch about being able to say what you want to and not having people hope you leave because they called you stupid. If you think I will go easier on you because I like arguing with you, your dead wrong. A butt pat won't save you from my opinon. I am an asshole. Proud of it too. If I was nice, it wouldn't be much fun for you would it?

Toker

[Sinsemilla Jones]

Say Sinse, can you tell me which of those reasons you gave it was that got me banned? Please, I would like to know what you think the reason was for my banning.

Keeping it simple, from best that I can tell, you were banned for not knowing when to shut up.

That's just what I think is the reason why, and it isn't an attempt to justify it or to say that I agreed with it.

-Sinse

[Sinsemilla Jones]

http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/thd22x117386.shtml

and the aftermath....

http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/thd1x71574.shtml

http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=2980

http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/thd22x118869.shtml

-Sinse

[HvyFuel]

Fame at last!

So Toker, I'm an idiot? Obviously based on the fact I disagree with you. Doesn't that make 90% of the population of the US idiots too?

peace :)

[Libertarian Toker]

I think if you will notice, I called myself an idiot too. Don't get so bent man, they are only words. If you keep acting so sensitive to words, I am going to start thinking maybe you should be a member of the MP.

Toker

[Libertarian Toker]

"you were banned for not knowing when to shut up."

So when did that become a reason to get banned? It looks a bit to me like maybe you don't know when to shut up either. Even though your beloved mod has told you to shut up, you didn't, you had to say more. If you think it was not justified, and don't agree with it, why do you stand up for for their actions? You knew you were trying to stir up trouble, then and now. Your links are nothing more then a cry for back up to help you stir up trouble. Mainly I think because you are unable to fight your battles very effectively on your own. If it was not your intention to stir shit up there, you would not have started a thread that you had to know would do just that. You knew good and well that heavy didn't have a damn thing to do with that mess, yet you used him as a tool to stir up the MP board against the politics board again. You can back peddle all you want, but the evidence is all there. Even your sentry thinks so.

Toker

[heartsurgerysurviver]

So when did that become a reason to get banned? Just an FYI, asking questions at MP is another reason to get banned, as is going against THEIR flow. One can not voice any different opinion from CR or his butt kissers or your history there too. Dual rules abound at MP. All that place is good for is a few laughs, if that. On a different note: Did anyone read about the loss of over a billion dollars in contract money and goods sent to Iran. It seems an accounting of contracts has turned up losses of goods and services [that may or may not have even been delivered] totaling over a billion. It seems bushy and his cronies have the best of both worlds. 1. an endless means of fatting their wallets. 2. no accountability to the american people. neither party deserves to be in office, both have sold out to big business. That's who runs this country, corporations who directly benifit from this war. I wonder how that oil pipeline through afgan. and iran is progressing

peace
heart

[Libertarian Toker]

There are decent people that post on the MP. Unfortunitly, as with most boards, there are some people that are not so decent.

"neither party deserves to be in office"

I couldn't agree more with that.

"Did anyone read about the loss of over a billion dollars in contract money and goods sent to Iran."

I didn't, could you post a link? I would like to look into that.

Toker

[heartsurgerysurviver]

LT here is the link to the article . It's just another way our government spends without any say by the people. Big business, with politicans in their pockets, rape the american people again.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-iraq-audit,0,4400556.story

peace
heart

[HvyFuel]

I think if you will notice, I called myself an idiot too.

Quite true, my apologies. I was reading the LP.org site earlier trying to find policy on medical benefits without much luck, a link would be very helpfull if you have anything in that area? Ta

peace :)

[Libertarian Toker]

Since your kind of social, I doubt you will like their answer to your question.

http://www.badnarik.org/Issues/RxDrugPrices.php

http://www.badnarik.org/Issues/HealthCare.php

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/platform_all.html#healcare