what hit the pentagon on 9/11

[scobbie]

look at this site before you comment its quite intresting . good debate . http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main

[pabloescobar209]

a plane... end of story

[scobbie]

it was a plane but not the one they said it were watch and learn

[motahead]

Fellas..

I live in Northern VA across the river from DC not too far from the Pentagon.

I assure you that it was the plane that everyone read about.

Look, I'm up for entertaining conspiracy theories for fun as much as anyone.

HOWEVER..conspiracy theories with absolutely no evidence to support them except for random quotes from random people aren't to be believed or even entertained.

The fact is the great misconception is that the American Government is capable of pulling off these massive cover-ups and hoaxes (i.e. the moon landing, 9/11) for some sinister ulterior motive.

This is GREATLY overestimating the reach and power of the American government which like any other, does not exist in a vaccum and is full of people who constantly are trying to out politic one another to further their own careers or the ideology of the party they belong to.

Not to say that there haven't been cover-ups and secret dealings and events in the past, but there is NO possible way that the government could engineer or even try to mislead the american public in such a way. There are too many people watching and they all are not all on the same side.

This is giving Bush WAAAY to much credit. The man's an idiot, his cabinet is devious and did mislead the world with their evidence for invading Iraq and guess what?

Everybody knows that it was bullshit even before the first shot was fired.

[litespeed]

a plane... end of story

One, a plane could not go that deep in to it.

the WTC they let you see the planes hit it.

A plane would not make the hole in the dirt like that. that looks like the missiles that hit thing in V nam.

:confused: How is it, the person that was flying it is still alive? :confused:
and 8 or 9 of the others are still alive???

Bush had some people in the pentagon that did not go with his shit so he had to do, them in...

[motahead]

Whatever...

All of a sudden everyones an industrial engineer and an expert on blast formations by looking at some photos.

Believe what you want. Fucking aliens did it.

Ever hear of Occam's razor?? No? Well HE did it.

[litespeed]

Whatever...

All of a sudden everyones an industrial engineer and an expert on blast formations by looking at some photos.

Believe what you want. Fucking aliens did it.

Ever hear of Occam's razor?? No? Well HE did it.


forensic science on blast formations [was what I did in the military for a long time sorry about that]

[alienhed420]

It was a missle

[RastaKaze]

It was a flying saucer :D LMAO

Na man, I seriously doubt it. Have faith in the UFO thing though. Only a few of the most famous sighting really convince me... But here's me take on the whole thing: if they know anything, I say they're as clueless about it as we are. Hell, we're just humans... Reverse Engineering? Pssst. :)

[mrdevious]

well first of all, just because a site says "see this indentation and this mark, no plane could do that!" doesn't make it so. the makers are basing these "facts" on assumption, they're not experts.

second: none of us, including me, know shit about what a 7-57 can penetrate and do, it's not like a lot of testing as been done on this.

third: really consider the logistics of a missile hitting the pentagon. people would have seen it flying overhead, missiles make a very loud and distinctive noise as they fly, especially when decending. plus they don't just have a big pile of missiles to throw around, these are big, serious, expensive weapons. every single weapon, especially something that big, has to be accounted for, and hundreds of people are involved in maintaining or serving around these weapons. and, all the fire and police crews got plenty of opportunity to go through the wreckage.

[420purplehaze420]

there is NO possible way that the government could engineer or even try to mislead the american public in such a way.

please explain. they have done it before and most likely will do it again, watch that entire video its quite assuring that it was indeed a missile, like check out the pic of a perfect hole in the building dont try and tell me a gigantic plane did that

[Das Boot]

Then why won't they release the tapes? When it actually happened why weren't a bunch of hayseeds on the news screaming, "HOLYEEEEEEEE SHEEEEEEEIIIIIT I SAW ME A BIG OLE GAL DERN PLANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[RastaKaze]

Because they don't want people freaking out, it's really pretty simple.

[Junket]

Oh yea, Bush plotted 9/11...OH YEA......it was a missle....OH YEA........that cup of kool-aid was good.

[Das Boot]

Because they don't want people freaking out, it's really pretty simple.

Fuck that you can't stop Hayseeds from getting on the news. Remember when the space shuttle broke apart over East Texas? Hayseeds love getting on the news and if they had seen a plane they would have found a way.

[RastaKaze]

NO IT WASN'T!!! I like the tropical kool-aid, fuck that red shit :D

[Junket]

FUCKING LIES!!! yea i know, the tropical has a sweet..yet tangy taste, very good..

[RastaKaze]

Fuck that you can't stop Hayseeds from getting on the news. Remember when the space shuttle broke apart over East Texas? Hayseeds love getting on the news and if they had seen a plane they would have found a way.

Well, it's like I always say: People will beleive whatever they need to in order to get a little fame...

[Junket]

Well, it's like I always say: People will beleive whatever they need to in order to get a little fame...

Ya man, just look at Dr.Phil...believes helping people is a good thing...hes only in it for the fame...

[rastabill89]

I assure all of you that it was a over sized blind pigeon
end of story

[LOVElife]

Cause it was a Fuckin Plane man!

Conspiracy theory my arse, it happened, face facts. Believe what you have seen!

Take it Easy!

[RastaKaze]

Ya man, just look at Dr.Phil...believes helping people is a good thing...hes only in it for the fame...

Dr. Phil is a disgrace. I think it's horrible how he puts down his guests and stuff, It's like he's more mentally unstable then his patients... Who the fuck is this bald ass texan to tell people how to manage relationships??? Please...

[Wesley Pipes]

first off it could not have been a missle, why... cuz a missle wouldn't penetrate that far into a building, it would blow up as soon as it hit the first wall. second no way was it a 757 plane, that would have left a whole lot more mess, thirdly i was in the RAF cadets and studied everything from plane design to what to do if ur plane enters a flat spin and have also piloted a couple of light planes so i know that that was not a passenger jet, im not a conspiracist but something is definately not right there

[Junket]

yea no one wants to hear that shit man!
you need to get passed that, cause no ass is worth thinking that much about...i always say...

[Blowboy]

I once heard a rumour (I really have no proof whatsoever) that it was a truck loaded with explosives that hit the wall.

I don't believe it actually:) The missile thing seems more possible.

[Guest]

Yes, that perfect circle hole in the wall... must prove it all.


Or the picture of the perfect blasted out hole is a picture from something else.

I dont really care what happened. All I know is someone is paying dearly for it, and quite honestly it feels good.

Call me a bastard and ban me from these oh so peaceful pot loving forums.

[LOVElife]

I once heard a rumour (I really have no proof whatsoever) that it was a truck loaded with explosives that hit the wall.

I don't believe it actually:) The missile thing seems more possible.
I once heard a rumour that it was Flying Pigs that brought the Twin Towers down! (I have no proof whatsoever)

I don't believe it actually. The Plane thing seems more possible!

. . . . . . .

OMG :rolleyes: :error: :rolleyes:

Really though, OMG!!!!

[eg420ne]

LOL they moved it over here

[pabloescobar209]

first off it could not have been a missle, why... cuz a missle wouldn't penetrate that far into a building, it would blow up as soon as it hit the first wall. second no way was it a 757 plane, that would have left a whole lot more mess, thirdly i was in the RAF cadets and studied everything from plane design to what to do if ur plane enters a flat spin and have also piloted a couple of light planes so i know that that was not a passenger jet, im not a conspiracist but something is definately not right there
well u obviously didnt study about how the pentagon is the strongest building in the world after they remodeled it.. luckily the plane hit a side that had been done already minimizing damage... put it this way when the remodeled "they used windows so strong that they realized after installation that the windows were stronger than the walls, so they had to make the walls stronger"

[Myth1184]

::hands out tin foil hats::

[eg420ne]

Im sorry i cant resist it-----The govt & its corporate media should of handed out tinfoil hats when they were telling there bullshit conspiracy theory about what happened on 911---Los esclavos nunca preguntan alli dumbasses del fuckin de los lideres :thumbsup: Im fuckin tired of being lied 2-I just want the truth for once --- Our govt, the public school systems and religion, have done an outstanding job in making us obey and not question what goes on around us.. :twocents:

[pisshead]

yeah, the biggest conspiracy theory of them all is the 19 freedom hating muslims who didn't know how to fly...whose sole motive is their hatred for freedom...

[scobbie]

the thing is that were is the plane man that was a big fukin plane man wereis the reckage man. http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main so now youve watched tell me wre and they wountnt try it in britian we demand the truth someone would get fucked for a lie like that.
nowcometaeglesgaandtellalielikethatmanandyouwouldg etslashed

[nicholasstanko]

::hands out tin foil hats::

interesting...

hey look who's back! it's tholiak!

very interesting...

[eg420ne]

LOL^^^^

[nicholasstanko]

interesting....

but seriously guys, have most of you been so dumbed down that you can't see that everything has been faked?

Every top aeronautical engineer and pilot have agreed that the "boeing" moved to smoothly when banking the turn and that it would be impossible for a terrorist who barely could fly a cessna to handle so expertly.

but hey, i guess it's a sensible theory that 19 hijackers slipped onto planes without being detected with the gas masks and box cutters and electronic guidance systems on them, and then proceeded to fly not one...not two....not even three...but four huge commercial airlines off of their courses, flying each one with the skill of the red baron.

It makes perfect sense that they outwitted the entire Air Force and intelligence community all while they boast at being the best in the world.


But here i go with my nutball loony bin theories that a hugely wealthy and funded American Government populated by scores of over-privileged brats who spent their entire lives shirking responsibility and being taught that those with less money than you are next to nothing, couldn't possibly use their infinite resources to concoct a plan in order to make even more money for themselves.

Yep, the loving government populated by coke heads and drunks and military deserters could NEVER possibly think it was okay to kill a few lower-class citizens in order to further their own selfish agendas and legacies. Nope, not here. Rich people care about everyone. Havnt you ever been to the Hamptons or Beverly Hills or the slopes of Aspen? Everybody's welcome!

Yeh, and screw that idea. The government is way to big with too many people vying for power. You couldnt keep something big like that quiet.

You sure couldnt. But the few men who literally hold all the real power could.

[nicholasstanko]

contd post...


you think that just because some agent mulder wannabe in the FBI holds any real salt?they take their orders and follow them just as any soldier. Of course their probably fed the same bullshit we are...freedoms yadda yadda....muslims hate the whole world...blah blah...support the troops...ding dong....

so it's important to remember that after the "plane" hit the pentagon, the FBI agents who rushed to the local stores to yank their surveillance tapes mere minutes after the crash instead of actually "figuring out what happened" werent in some secret society like the Skulls, they were men and women ordered to secure those tapes because the Pentagon had been attacked and noone "knew" what was going on.

Jesus Christ...what are you guys smoking?

very interesting...

[Odd Ball]

You know what, however it happened, the fact remains ( well I believe it is a fact) that the government was behind it, doesn't matter how crazy that sounds, I believe it with every fiber of my being. Oh well, whatever, that's what they do, pull shit and use it to their advantage, nothing new. Personally, I think they paid the terrorists to do it. But believe what you want. I think the govt is determined to make this country what they want it to be by any means necessary. They're using this to justify taking away as many rights as possible, to justify spying on everyone. It sure as hell is working to their advantage if you ask me.

[eg420ne]

Ya and the 19 cavemen told NORAD to stand down as well--And and told Mayor Willy Brown no to fly on 911---and that dude that was with Porter Goss on 911 who wired 100,000 dollars to Mohamned Atta--Our public school system did a heck of a job along with TV and religion....but as long as every1 is happy & dandy, then its all ok..

[eg420ne]

and oz-wald was the lone gunman that killed JFK and Jack rubbyslippers was mad so he killed ozwald out of revenge for JFK- I side tracked from the thread my bad

[scobbie]

exellent people exolent its good to see people who like to know whats going on.
any more stories about whats going on here in britian.

[pisshead]

it appears there's going to be an unfortunate terrorist attack, and the government will be totally caught by surprise...so they'll unfortunately have to tax you more and take your rights away to keep you safe from the freedom hating muslims that will be blamed...we know you're all against the national id card and internal checkpoints, but we just have to have them...

UK atrocities planned - Met chief

BBC | December 22 2005 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4551652.stm)

Terrorist groups are "currently planning atrocities in the United Kingdom", Metropolitan Police Chief Commissioner Sir Ian Blair has warned.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today he knew this was the case because "we are listening to some of them, and we are watching some of them".

The key question, he said, was whether they were tracking "all of them".

Sir Ian said three plots had been disrupted since July, adding: "The threat is real. It's present with us."

He told the programme police were "carrying out 75% more" anti-terror operations than before the 7 July attacks in London.

Unlike bombers of the 1970s and 1980s, groups were capable of "mass atrocity without warning", he added.

'Threat is real'

Sir Ian said: "There are people in the United Kingdom who are currently planning atrocities in the United Kingdom.... it doesn't mean that they will get through but it does mean that we are facing a new morality."

He was asked about the Independent Police Complaints Commission's inquiry into Sir Ian's handling of the aftermath of the death of Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes on 22 July.

Police had mistakenly suspected he was a potential bomber.

Mr Menezes' family says Sir Ian "misled" the public after police shot the electrician dead at Stockwell Tube station.

Sir Ian, who said he could not go into detail while the inquiry was on-going, told Today: "On that morning, the Metropolitan Police was facing its greatest operational crisis it had ever known."

Four bombers were "on the loose", but he added: "That's not an excuse; it's merely part of the context."

Sir Ian said the Met would be transparent, but asked if he would "carry the can" for the killing, he said: "No.... the man at the top is responsible, utterly responsible, and I will deal with that in due course.

"Conjecture about possible resignations is, frankly, not worth the air time."

A second aspect of the Menezes family's complaint - that Scotland Yard delayed informing it of the death - will be incorporated into the main IPCC inquiry expected to conclude by the end of the year.

[Euphoric]

From what I've read on the subject it seems to have been a combination of bomb charges set throughout their infastructure and two aircraft.

This picture is interesting and not nearly as off topic as Rastakazes koolaid/dr phil rants :smokin:

[pisshead]

from the visual evidence, it appears to have been planes and premeditated controlled demolition, which did most of the work.

[Psycho4Bud]

DAMN!!! I missed out on the comedy hour!!

[eg420ne]

I was wondering if u were going to put ur :twocents: psy :D

[Psycho4Bud]

LOL...This has to be the best phrase yet on this:

"Every top aeronautical engineer and pilot have agreed that the "boeing" moved to smoothly when banking the turn and that it would be impossible for a terrorist who barely could fly a cessna to handle so expertly."


I would love to see the link to that story....maybe in a pissplanet report? :thumbsup:

[eg420ne]

Planes of 911 Exceeded Their Software Limits

just 4 the fuk of it- cut & pasteing is fun--lol


by Jim Heikkila
Saturday August 17, 2002

Two of the aircraft exceeded their software limits on 9/11.


The Boeing 757 and 767 are equipped with fully autonomous flight capability, they are the only two Boeing commuter aircraft capable of fully autonomous flight. They can be programmed to take off, fly to a destination and land, completely without a pilot at the controls.

They are intelligent planes, and have software limits pre set so that pilot error cannot cause passenger injury. Though they are physically capable of high g maneuvers, the software in their flight control systems prevents high g maneuvers from being performed via the cockpit controls. They are limited to approximately 1.5 g's, I repeat, one and one half g's. This is so that a pilot mistake cannot end up breaking grandma's neck.

No matter what the pilot wants, he cannot override this feature.

The plane that hit the Pentagon approached or reached its actual physical limits, military personnel have calculated that the Pentagon plane pulled between five and seven g's in its final turn.

The same is true for the second aircraft to impact the WTC.

There is only one way this can happen.

As well as fully autonomous flight capability, the 767 and 757 are the ONLY COMMUTER PLANES MADE BY BOEING THAT CAN BE FLOWN VIA REMOTE CONTROL. It is a feature that is standard to all of them, all 757's and 767's can do it. The purpose for this is if there is a problem with the pilots, Norad can fly the planes to safe destinations via remote. Only in this flight mode can those craft exceed their software limits and perform to their actual physical limits because a pre existing emergency situation is assumed if this mode of flight is used.

Terrorists in fact did not fly those planes, it is totally and completely impossible for those planes to have been flown in such a manner from the cockpit. Those are commuter aircraft, not F-16's and their software knows it.

Another piece of critical evidence: the voice recorders came up blank.

The flight recorders that were recovered had tape that was undamaged inside, but it was blank. There is only one way this can happen on a 757 or 767. When the aircraft are commandeered via remote control, the microphones that go to the cockpit voice recorder are re routed to the people doing the remote controlling, so that the recording of what happened in the cockpit gets made in a presumably safer place. But due to a glitch in the system on a 757/767, rather than shutting off when the mic is redirected the voice recorder keeps running. The voice recorders use what is called a continuous loop tape, which automatically re passes itself past the erase and record heads once every half hour, so after a half hour of running with the microphones redirected, the tape will be blank. Just like the recovered tapes were. Yet more proof that no pilot flew those planes in the last half hour.

Eight of the hijackers who were on those planes called up complaining that they were still alive. I'd bet you never heard about our foreign minister flying to Morocco and issuing an official apology to the accused, did you? No, terrorists did not fly those planes, plastic knives and box cutters were in fact too ridiculous to be true. Any of the remaining accused have certainly been sought out and killed by now.

Our information IS controlled

The cell phone calls from the aircraft could not have happened. I am a National Security Agency trained Electronic Warfare specialist, and am qualified to say this. My official title: MOS33Q10, Electronic Warfare Intercept Strategic Signal Processing/Storage Systems Specialist, a highly skilled MOS which requires advanced knowledge of many communications methods and circuits to the most minute level. I am officially qualified to place severe doubt that ordinary cell phone calls were ever made from the aircraft.

It was impossible for that to have happened, especially in a rural area for a number of reasons.

When you make a cell phone call, the first thing that happens is that your cell phone needs to contact a transponder. Your cell phone has a max transmit power of five watts, three watts is actually the norm. If an aircraft is going five hundred miles an hour, your cell phone will not be able to 1. Contact a tower, 2. Tell the tower who you are, and who your provider is, 3. Tell the tower what mode it wants to communicate with, and 4. Establish that it is in a roaming area before it passes out of a five watt range. This procedure, called an electronic handshake, takes approximately 45 seconds for a cell phone to complete upon initial power up in a roaming area because neither the cell phone or cell transponder knows where that phone is and what mode it uses when it is turned on. At 500 miles an hour, the aircraft will travel three times the range of a cell phone's five watt transmitter before this handshaking can occur. Though it is sometimes possible to connect during takeoff and landing, under the situation that was claimed the calls were impossible. The calls from the airplane were faked, no if's or buts.

I hope I made sense, if you have questions I will respond if possible. If I do not respond, please research this out yourself, search the boeing site, search the DARPA site, search were you have not searched before. Some of the information is classified and leaked by individuals, and it is also being scoured from the net. I have all of the original documents on my computer to safeguard against this.

Please do not ignore this, because only Norad has the flight codes for those aircraft, we did 911 to ourselves. Hitler had the Reichstag, we have 911. If 911 proves to not be enough to make the US citizenry set aside its rights for safety, the people who did 911 most certainly have access to nuclear material. 911 must be exposed for what it was before that material is used. "

[eg420ne]

HOMELAND INSECURITY
Armed pilots banned
2 months before 9-11
FAA rescinded rule allowing guns in cockpits just before terror attacks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: May 16, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Jon Dougherty
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

A 40-year-old Federal Aviation Administration rule that allowed commercial airline pilots to be armed was inexplicably rescinded two months before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, leading aviation security experts to lay at least some of the blame for the tragedy at the feet of airlines, none of which took advantage of the privilege while it was in effect.

The FAA adopted the armed pilot rule shortly after the Cuban missile crisis of 1961 to help prevent hijackings of American airliners. It remained in effect for four decades.

But in July 2001 â?? just two months prior to the Sept. 11 attacks â?? the rule was rescinded.

According to FAA officials, the rule required airlines to apply to the agency for their pilots to carry guns in cockpits and for the airlines to put pilots through an agency-approved firearms training course.

The aviation agency said, however, that throughout the life of the rule not a single U.S. air carrier took advantage of it, effectively rendering it "moot," according to one agency official.

"In the past, FAA regulations permitted pilots to carry firearms in the cockpit provided they completed an FAA-approved training program and were trained properly by the airlines," FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto told WND in a voice-mail message. "That was never put into effect because no requests for those training programs were ever made. â?¦"

Takemoto said the newly created Transportation Security Administration is now responsible for deciding whether pilots can be armed. The Aviation and Transportation Security Act signed into law by President Bush Nov. 19, 2001, has a provision allowing pilots to be armed, but the law does not mandate that the right be granted.

The FAA failed to return numerous follow-up phone calls requesting to know why the rule was rescinded, who was responsible for the decision, whether a particular incident spurred the decision and whether the aviation agency believes the airlines share some culpability for never taking advantage of it in the first place.

[eg420ne]

Washington, D.C., Nov. 3, 2000 â?? The fire and smoke from the downed passenger aircraft billows from the Pentagon courtyard. Defense Protective Services Police seal the crash sight. Army medics, nurses and doctors scramble to organize aid. An Arlington Fire Department chief dispatches his equipment to the affected areas.

Don Abbott, of Command Emergency Response Training, walks over to the Pentagon and extinguishes the flames. The Pentagon was a model and the "plane crash" was a simulated one.

The Pentagon Mass Casualty Exercise, as the crash was called, was just one of several scenarios that emergency response teams were exposed to Oct. 24-26 in the Office of the Secretaries of Defense conference room.

On Oct. 24, there was a mock terrorist incident at the Pentagon Metro stop and a construction accident to name just some of the scenarios that were practiced to better prepare local agencies for real incidents.

To conduct the exercise, emergency personnel hold radios that are used to rush help to the proper places, while toy trucks representing rescue equipment are pushed around the exercise table.

Cards are then passed out to the various players designating the number of casualties and where they should be sent in a given scenario.

To conduct the exercise, a medic reports to Army nurse Maj. Lorie Brown a list of 28 casualties so far. Brown then contacts her superior on the radio, Col. James Geiling, a doctor in the command room across the hall.

Geiling approves Brown's request for helicopters to evacuate the wounded. A policeman in the room recommends not moving bodies and Abbott, playing the role of referee, nods his head in agreement.

"If you have to move dead bodies to get to live bodies, that's okay," Abbott says as the situation unfolds .

Geiling remarked on the importance of such exercises.

"The most important thing is who are the players?" Geiling said. "And what is their modus operandi?"

Brown thought the exercise was excellent preparation for any potential disasters.

"This is important so that we're better prepared," Brown said. "This is to work out the bugs. Hopefully it will never happen, but this way we're prepared."

An Army medic found the practice realistic.

"You get to see the people that we'll be dealing with and to think about the scenarios and what you would do," Sgt. Kelly Brown said. "It's a real good scenario and one that could happen easily."

A major player in the exercise was the Arlington Fire Department.

"Our role is fire and rescue," Battalion Chief R.W. Cornwell said. "We get to see how each other operates and the roles and responsibilities of each. You have to plan for this. Look at all the air traffic around here."

Each participant was required to fill out an evaluation form after the training exercise.

"We go over scenarios that are germane to the Pentagon," Jake Burrell of the Pentagon Emergency Management Team said. 'You play the way you practice. We want people to go back to their organizations and look at their S.O.P. (standard operating procedure) and see how they responded to any of the incidents."

Burrell has coordinated these exercises for four years and he remarked that his team gets better each year.

Abbott, in his after action critique, reminded the participants that the actual disaster is only one-fifth of the incident and that the whole emergency would run for seven to 20 days and might involve as many as 17 agencies.

"The emergency to a certain extent is the easiest part," Abbott said. He reminded the group of the personal side of a disaster. "Families wanting to come to the crash sight for closure."

In this particular crash there would have been 341 victims.

(Ryan is a staff writer with the Fort Myer Military Community's Pentagram

[eg420ne]

Hani Hanjour:
9/11 Pilot Extraordinaire

From the ridiculous to the sublime...

[Flight Academy] Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite, meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said, they considered him a very bad pilot. "I'm still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee said. "He could not fly at all." [New York Times]
Federal Aviation Administration records show [Hanjour] obtained a commercial pilot's license in April 1999, but how and where he did so remains a lingering question that FAA officials refuse to discuss. His limited flying abilities do afford an insight into one feature of the attacks: The conspiracy apparently did not include a surplus of skilled pilots. [Cape Cod Times]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hani Hanjour as a Cessna 172 pilot


Cockpit of a Cessna 172

At Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md., 20 miles west of Washington, flight instructor Sheri Baxter instantly recognized the name of alleged hijacker Hani Hanjour when the FBI released a list of 19 suspects in the four hijackings. Hanjour, the only suspect on Flight 77 the FBI listed as a pilot, had come to the airport one month earlier seeking to rent a small plane.

However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took the slender, soft-spoken Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.

In the spring of 2000, Hanjour had asked to enroll in the CRM Airline Training Center in Scottsdale, Ariz., for advanced training, said the center's attorney, Gerald Chilton Jr. Hanjour had attended the school for three months in late 1996 and again in December 1997 but never finished coursework for a license to fly a single-engine aircraft, Chilton said.

When Hanjour reapplied to the center last year, "We declined to provide training to him because we didn't think he was a good enough student when he was there in 1996 and 1997" Chilton said. [Newsday]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
Outline of the 9/11 Plot

[Excerpt]

On December 12, 2000, [Nawaf al Hazmi and Hani Hanjour] were settling in Mesa, Arizona, and Hanjour was ready to brush up on his flight training (Brush up? He could barely fly a Cessna). By early 2001, he was using a Boeing 737 simulator. Because his performance struck his flight instructors as sub-standard, they discouraged Hanjour from continuing, but he persisted.


After wisely investing $40 Hanjour produced the following miraculous results on 9/11:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hani Hanjour as a Boeing 757 pilot


Cockpit of a Boeing 757

At a speed of about 500 miles an hour, the plane was headed straight for what is known as P-56, protected air space 56, which covers the White House and the Capitol.

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." [NATCA]

But just as the plane seemed to be on a suicide mission into the White House, the unidentified pilot [Hanjour] executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level, vanishing from controllers' screens, the sources said.

Less than an hour after two other jets demolished the World Trade Center in Manhattan, Flight 77 carved a hole in the nation's defense headquarters, a hole five stories high and 200 feet wide.

Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm, possibly one of the hijackers. Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious. [Washington Post]

â??For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible â?? there is not one chance in a thousand,â?� said [ex-commercial pilot Russ] Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727â??s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737â??s through 767â??s it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying. [LewisNews]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why didn't the USAF intervene in the aerial acrobatics of Flight 77?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another example of a hijacked jet being flown with extraordinary skill on 9/11...

Live Film Footage of United Airlines Flight 175's
Long Range Approach to World Trade Center



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I don't know ... if perhaps some type of navigating system or some type of electronics would put two planes into the World Trade Center..."
WMV video download (773kB)



The Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, was founded in 1997. The group's Statement of Principles [PDF] published September 2000 stated that "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor" would advance their policies.
Dov Zakheim is a co-author of the Statement of Principles and an ex-CEO of System Planning Corporation which manufactures equipment to remotely pilot aircraft. Zakheim was appointed as Undersecretary of Defense and Comptroller of the Pentagon by President Bush on May 4, 2001.

The Mastermind Behind 9/11?


The steep turn [of Flight 77] was so smooth, the sources say, it's clear there was no fight for control going on. [CBS News]
William Middleton Sr., was running his street sweeper through the cemetery when he heard a harsh whistling sound overhead. Middleton looked up and spotted a commercial jet [Flight 77] whose pilot seemed to be fighting with his own craft. [SouthCoast Today]

If the pilot was wrestling with the plane's controls then it would not fly straight, but if the plane was 'electronically hijacked' his actions would be irrelevant.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[scobbie]

anyone who reads this thread and stiil beleaves the bullshit the american people are expected to beleave needs help fuckin lying cuntd man and thanks eg420ne for the insight would like anymore research you can give me on this mind blowing man mind blowing.
dontexpectthoseinathouritytotellyouthetruthasyouwi llbeletdowneverytime.

[Psycho4Bud]

And you forgot the best part...all eye witnesses, relatives that received cell phone calls, etc...were paid off by the CIA!!!

[eg420ne]

If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chase down the streets and lynched----<GHW Bush 1992

[scobbie]

look at this for coincedence or is it
1) New York City has 11 letters

2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.

3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin
Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.

4) George W Bush has 11 letters.

This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:

1) New York is the 11th state.

2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number
11.

3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11

4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers.
6+5 = 11

5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9 + 1+ 1 = 11

6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number
911. 9 + 1 + 1 = 11.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:

1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was
254. 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year. Again 2 + 5 + 4
= 11.

3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 11.

4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers
incident.

Now this is where things get totally eerie:

The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is
the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the koran, the Islamic
holy book:

"For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle.
The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo,
while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for
the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was
peace."

That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.

uncovinced about all of this Still ..?! Try this and see how you feel
afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:

Open Microsoft Word and do the following:

1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first
plane to hit one of the Twin Towers.

2. Highlight the Q33 NY.

3. Change the font size to 48.

4. Change the actual font to the WINGDINGS

What do you think now?!!

[pisshead]

there's much more conclusive evidence out there...than numerology and quotes...

[Psycho4Bud]

LOL....now it's a debate on which paranoid theory is best. :thumbsup:

[eg420ne]

The best conspiracy theory thus far is that Magic Arab Theory... :thumbsup:

If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chase down the streets and lynched--GHW Bush-1992

[eg420ne]

""QUALCOMM Press Release
12-23-5

"Today, American Airlines and QUALCOMM showcased their strength as technology pioneers and market leaders in their respective industries," said Dan Garton, executive vice president of marketing for American Airlines. "American is committed to researching and providing innovative, cutting-edge products and services that enhance our passengers' traveling experience and give our customers what they value. Even though commercial availability of cell phone use in flight is approximately 24 months away, American Airlines knows that our customers want to stay connected and this proof-of-concept event is an important step in bringing in-cabin wireless services to our customers." "

American Airlines and QUALCOMM Complete
Test Flight to Evaluate In-Cabin Mobile Phone Use

FORT WORTH, Texas and SAN DIEGO - July 15, 2004 - QUALCOMM Incorporated "

www.qualcomm.com/press/re...print.html



gatorpress.com/badsam/page5.html
"The strange case of the 9/11 cell phone calls

Last month, Qualcomm Corporation issued a press release stating that they had developed a new technology that would finally make it possible to make cellular phone calls from commercial airliners. Using a technology called "Pico Cells", the system will work as a link between the airliner and ground towers. According to the press release, it is currently impossible to connect by cell phone in a plane that is above 4,000 feet.
During the Republican National Convention in New York City last month, Deena Burnett, widow of Flight 93 victim Tom Burnett, spoke of the four telephone calls she received from her husband aboard the doomed airliner on September 11th, all of which were received from his cell phone, one of which lasted 13 minutes.
With the FAA statement that Flight 93 never went below 29,000 feet until its' sudden fatal plunge, these two stories seem to be mutually exclusive. Either it is possible to make cell phone calls from a commercial jetliner in flight at cruising altitude - or it isn't.
If it is already possible to use a cell phone on a plane, why is Qualcomm so excited about their Pico chip? If it is not possible to do so, there's an even bigger problem.
Because there are no survivors of any of the 911 planes, the only "eyewitness" testimony we have is the paraphrased transcripts of phone calls made to family members. This is where we get the descriptions of "Arab looking men" with knives and box cutters, talking about "Allah". It is from these calls we hear the immortal and heroic "Let's roll!".
I decided to investigate as thoroughly as possible whether or not the phone calls from Flight 93 and other hijacked aircraft were possible. First I looked into whether the calls could have been made using the "air phone" service aboard the planes. Burnett's wife reported the calls came from her husband's cell phone. Two calls by other passengers were made from locked lavatories, which would have been impossible to make by airphone. Jeremy Glick spoke with his wife for 20 minutes from his cell phone, according to the 911 Commission. These calls occurred while the plane was cruising at over 30,000 feet according to news reports and the 911 Commission.
Although there were calls made from airphones by Todd Beamer and other passengers, there were also undoubtedly some calls that are claimed to have originated from cell phones. In some cases witnesses said they recognized the family member's number on their caller ID.
So the critical question becomes this: Is it possible to make a cell phone call from cruising altitudes in a jetliner? The answer is disturbing, disquieting, and emphatic.
Alexa Graf, a spokesman of AT&T, commenting in the immediate wake of the 9/11 attacks, said it was "a fluke that the calls reached their destinations".
NSA-trained Electronic Warfare specialist Steve Moser goes further, expressing that he has "severe doubt that ordinary cell phone calls were ever made from the aircraft (Flight 93)". Moser explains: "When you make a cell phone call, the first thing that happens is your cell phone needs to contact a transponder and complete a digital handshake. If an aircraft is going five hundred miles an hour, your cell phone will not be able to contact a tower, tell the tower who you are and who your provider is, tell the tower what mode it wants to communicate with, and establish that it is in a roaming area, before it passes out of range. It takes 30-45 seconds to do that. Though it is sometimes possible to connect during takeoff and landing, under the situation that was claimed the calls were impossible."


So, scientifically and technologically, the cell phone calls of 9-11 were impossible. There were definitely some calls made from airphones, and probably from the WTC planes, which were low enough to connect with a tower for a few minutes before impact. But some of the calls that were reportedly made that day are simply impossible, especially aboard Flight 93.
Of course, all of the people who died on that day were heroes who died in an act of war against the American people, no matter what happened. It requires no myth, no propaganda.
What is the truth about the cell phone calls of 9-11? The significance of this mystery is something historians may puzzle over for years to come.""









SORTA RELATED

Broadcom sues qualcomm 7/5/05


www.broadcom.com/press/re...?id=726224
"Broadcom Charges Qualcomm With Violating U.S. Antitrust Laws
Federal Lawsuit Claims Qualcomm's Licensing and Other Practices in Cellular Technology and Products Violate the Antitrust Laws, Stifle Competition
IRVINE, Calif., July 5, 2005 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- Broadcom Corporation (Nasdaq: BRCM), a global leader in wired and wireless broadband communications semiconductors, announced today that it has commenced litigation against Qualcomm Incorporated (Nasdaq: QCOM) alleging that the San Diego-based company's licensing and other practices related to cellular technology and products violate U.S. antitrust laws.

In a complaint filed in the United States District Court for the District of New Jersey, Broadcom asserts that the violations relate to Qualcomm's abuse of the wireless technology standards-setting process, its failure to meet its commitments to license technology for cellular wireless standards on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory terms, and various anticompetitive practices of Qualcomm in the markets for cell phone technology and chipsets. "

[Psycho4Bud]

I think this pic tells the story a lil' better.

[eg420ne]

I think this pic tells the story a lil' better.
So weres the imprint of the wings and engines on the pentagon I only seen that one hole in all the other pic if the wings had went in the pentagon wouldnt it show -Just like they did on the twin towers...

[scobbie]

what is the magic arab theory eg420ne im intrested and thanks for the bundle of research mate i want to research then make my mind up but really intresting anythig else would be great .


soak up the truth and then you will be free our goverments are liying to us we and the victims demand the truth

[scobbie]

were did you get that picture phyco bud as you need both side of the story to research any informatoin for or against wiil be great

[scobbie]

The very label [conspiracy] serves as an automatic dismissal, as though no one ever acts in secret. Let us bring some perspective and common sense to this issue.

The United States comprises large organizations - corporations, bureaucracies, "interest groups," and the like - which are conspiratorial by nature. That is, they are hierarchical, their important decisions are made in secret by a few key decision-makers, and they are not above lying about their activities. Such is the nature of organizational behavior. "Conspiracy," in this key sense, is a way of life around the globe.

Within the world's military and intelligence apparatuses, this tendency is magnified to the greatest extreme. During the 1940s, [...] the military and its scientists developed the world's most awesome weapons in complete secrecy... [...]

Anyone who has lived in a repressive society knows that official manipulation of the truth occurs daily. But societies have their many and their few. In all times and all places, it is the few who rule, and the few who exert dominant influence over what we may call official culture. - All elites take care to manipulate public information to maintain existing structures of power. It's an old game.

America is nominally a republic and free society, but in reality an empire and oligarchy, vaguely aware of its own oppression, within and without. I have used the term "national security state" to describe its structures of power. It is a convenient way to express the military and intelligence communities, as well as the worlds that feed upon them, such as defense contractors and other underground, nebulous entities. Its fundamental traits are secrecy, wealth, independence, power, and duplicity.

Nearly everything of significance undertaken by America's military and intelligence community in the past half-century has occured in secrecy. The undertaking to build an atomic weapon, better known as the Manhattan Project, remains the great model for all subsequent activities. For more than two years, not a single member of Congress even knew about it although its final cost exceeded two billion dollars.

During and after the Second World War, other important projects, such as the development of biological weapons, the importation of Nazi scientists, terminal mind-control experiments, nationwide interception of mail and cable transmissions of an unwitting populace, infiltration of the media and universities, secret coups, secret wars, and assassinations all took place far removed not only from the American public, but from most members of Congress and a few presidents. Indeed, several of the most powerful intelligence agencies were themselves established in secrecy, unknown by the public or Congress for many years.

Since the 1940s, the US Defense and Intelligence establishment has had more money at its disposal than most nations. In addition to official dollars, much of the money is undocumented. From its beginning, the CIA was engaged in a variety of off-the-record "business" activities that generated large sums of cash. The connections of the CIA with global organized crime (and thus de facto with the international narcotics trade) has been well established and documented for many years. - Much of the original money to run the American intelligence community came from very wealthy and established American families, who have long maintained an interest in funding national security operations important to their interests.

[Psycho4Bud]

were did you get that picture phyco bud as you need both side of the story to research any informatoin for or against wiil be great

Look through past threads in the politics section in here....I do believe that the stoners in this forum have brought forth more evidence, from both sides of the fence, than the politicians have. I'm one of the believers in the Al-Quada theory and some of the others are for the BAD Bush theory.

Hope ya got a couple days cause with all the threads....it'll take a while to get through it all! Have a good one Scobbie!! :thumbsup:

[scobbie]

get on to that phyco bud merry christmas all may only the best of luck fall on you all in the coming year

[eg420ne]

The magic arab theory- the belief that 19 cavemen and a lone Osama from a cave in Afghanistan concocted 911 & acted alone in the hijackings on 911-- I get it from the magic bullet theory surrounding the events of JFK murder..


If the single-bullet theory (SBT) is wrong, then more than one gunman must have been firing at President Kennedy. This was why Arlen Specter, a staff attorney for the Warren Commission (WC), formulated the theory, namely, to avoid having to conclude that more than one shooter was involved in the assassination. This is also why the theory is so controversial. The lone-gunman scenario stands or falls on the SBT.

What is the SBT? In a nutshell, the theory says that a bullet, known officially as CE 399, struck Kennedy in the back, transited his neck without leaving any metal fragments whatsoever, exited his neck, hit Governor John Connally near his right armpit, tore through his chest, smashing rib bone in the process, exited his chest, struck his right wrist and shattered a tough radius bone in the wrist, exited the wrist, and then stuck itself halfway into Connally's left thigh. Yet, amazingly, after supposedly doing all this damage, CE 399 emerged with its lands and grooves intact, with no damage whatsoever to its nose, and with no more than 3-4 grains lost from its substance. The only damage to the bullet is at its base, where there is deformation that is not even visible unless viewed from certain angles. It is no wonder critics have dubbed this bullet the "magic bullet."

The SBT is unlikely on its face. It is even more unlikely when one studies it more closely. Here are ten reasons I reject the SBT:

1. The SBT requires that President Kennedy was leaning markedly forward when the infamous "magic bullet" struck him, yet the available photographic evidence provides no support for this assumption. NOVA's computer simulation of the SBT has Kennedy leaning about 25 degrees forward. In the NOVA documentary, Dr. Michael Baden gives us an idea of just how far forward Kennedy would have had to lean in order for the SBT's vertical trajectory to be possible--Dr. Baden leans considerably far forward, much more so than we see Kennedy leaning in any extant photo or film. Even in Dale Myers' computer "reconstruction" of the SBT, Myers has his JFK model leaning so far forward that his entire back is off the rear seat. No photo or film shows Kennedy in any such position during the time frame for the first hit. In the Zapruder film we see Kennedy sitting comfortably in his seat before he disappears from the camera's view as the limousine drives behind the freeway sign.

2. Jackie Kennedy's reaction in frame 223 of the Zapruder film (Z223) clearly indicates President Kennedy was hit well before he reemerges into view in Z225. In Z223 we see Jackie has turned to look at her husband and is looking at him rather intently. Obviously, something happened that caused her to stop waving and to focus her attention on her husband. In fact, by Z202-204 we see Mrs. Kennedy has turned to look at her husband. When she fully reemerges into view at Z223, she is looking intently at him. In Z221 and Z222, even though Jackie is not fully in view, it is clear she is looking at her husband in these frames as well. (Many researchers believe Kennedy was hit at around Z188. The photographic evidence panel of the House Select Committee on Assassinations [HSCA] reached the same conclusion.)

3. Kennedy is already reacting to a wound in Z225. This reaction could not have been in response to a wound at Z223-224 as required by the current version of the SBT. Realizing this, some WC supporters have resorted to denying that Kennedy is reacting to a wound in Z225. This is clearly a spurious, forced denial. Other WC supporters, however, candidly acknowledge that Kennedy is obviously reacting to a wound in Z225:

* Itek concluded Kennedy "is CLEARLY reacting to a wound by frame 225."

* Richard Trask, a respected researcher and longtime student of the Zapruder film, observes that Kennedy "emerges from the behind the sign at Z225 CLEARLY HAVING BEEN SHOT."

* Dr. John Lattimer, a supporter of the lone-gunman scenario, concludes Kennedy shows a "reflex reaction" to a wound in Z225 and opines the wound occurred at about Z220.

* Lone-gunman theorist Gerald Posner opines that at Z225 Kennedy "appears to be reacting to a bullet."

* FBI photographic expert Lyndal Shaneyfelt told the WC that in Z225 "there appears to be a reaction on the part of the President":

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Frame 225 there appears to be a reaction on the part of the President. This is----

Mr. SPECTER. Describe specifically what movement he is making in that picture or what his position is?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. At frame 225 his hand is down, his right hand that was waving is down, and has been brought down as though it were reaching for his lapel or his throat. The other hand, his left had is on his lapel but rather high, as though it were coming up, and he is beginning to go into a hunched position. (5 H 152)

It should be mentioned that the HSCA's photographic evidence panel likewise concluded Kennedy is reacting to a wound in Z225.

The fact that Kennedy can be seen reacting to a wound in Z225 proves he must have been hit prior to Z223-224. This, in turn, refutes the version of the SBT that is now espoused by nearly all lone-gunman theorists. (As mentioned, this version says the alleged magic bullet struck Kennedy at Z223-224.) In fact, if the flipping up of Connally's lapel in Z224 was caused by the exiting of a bullet, as WC supporters now assert, this is further proof that Kennedy and Connally were hit by separate bullets, since Z225 proves Kennedy was struck before Z223.

Indeed, Dr. Robert Piziali, an expert on human reactions to bullet wounds, admitted under cross examination at the 1992 American Bar Association mock Oswald trial that if Kennedy began to react to a wound at Z225, this would mean the bullet could have struck him no later than Z221. He explained there would have been a delay of 4 frames between the bullet's impact and Kennedy's visible reaction to it (see trial transcript in Harrison Livingstone, KILLING THE TRUTH, New York: Carroll and Graf Publishers, 1993, p. 224; cf. pp. 235-236).

4. I find Gov. Connally's testimony to be persuasive and compelling. Connally was absolutely certain he was hit by a separate bullet, not by the same bullet that struck Kennedy in the back as required by the SBT. He recalled he had already turned to try to look at Kennedy and that he was in the process of turning the other way when he felt a bullet strike him forcibly in the back. Mrs. Connally, who was sitting next to her husband in the limousine, likewise was certain her husband was hit by a different bullet than the one that struck Kennedy.

Nearly all of the eyewitnesses who commented on the subject believed Kennedy and Connally were hit by separate bullets. The FBI's report on the assassination came to the same conclusion, stating that Kennedy was struck in the back by one bullet and that Connally was then hit by a different bullet.

If Kennedy's and Connally's non-fatal wounds were caused by separate bullets--as Connally and his wife, the FBI report, and numerous witnesses said--then more than one gunman must have been involved. The SBT was formulated precisely to avoid having to admit that JFK's and Connally's non-fatal wounds were caused by different bullets, since that would mean there was more than one shooter.

5. I accept Audrey Bell's account regarding the bullet fragments that were removed from Connally's wrist. Although Dr. Charles Gregory said the fragments that were removed from the Governor's wrist were merely "flakes of metal" and that they weighed less than a postage stamp, that is not how Nurse Bell remembers it at all. Nurse Bell is the Parkland Hospital operating-room nurse who handled the fragments that were removed from the Governor's wrist. She insists the fragments were not merely flakes but were identifiable pieces of metal anywhere from 3 to 4 millimeters in length by 2 millimeters wide. This squares with the recollection of one of Connally's other surgeons, Dr. Robert Shaw. Interviewed for the award-winning 1988 documentary REASONABLE DOUBT: THE SINGLE-BULLET THEORY, Shaw said, "I am sure that the bullet that inflicted these wounds on Governor Connally was fragmented much more than this bullet [CE 399] shows."

There didn't seem to be any question about the wrist fragments in the first hours and days after the shooting. The Parkland Hospital operative record states that "SMALL BITS OF METAL WERE ENCOUNTERED AT VARIOUS LEVELS" of the wrist wound, and that "WHEREVER THEY WERE IDENTIFIED AND COULD BE PICKED UP WERE PICKED UP and have been submitted to the pathology department for identification and examination."

Asked if CE 399 could have been the bullet that struck Connally's wrist, Dr. Pierre Finck, one of Kennedy's autopsists, answered, "No, for the reason that there are too many fragments described in that wrist," and he based this conclusion in large part on the Parkland Hospital operative record. Dr. James Humes, the chief pathologist at the autopsy, understood the clear implications of the operative record's wording. Dr. Humes was asked if CE 399 could have been either the missile that struck the head or the one that wounded Connally's wrist. He replied in the negative and cited the Parkland operative record as the basis for his conclusion:

Mr. SPECTER. Doctor Humes, I show you a bullet which we have marked as Commission Exhibit No. 399, and may I say now that, subject to later proof, this is the missile which has been taken from the stretcher which the evidence now indicates was the stretcher occupied by Governor Connally. I move for its admission into evidence at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted. (The article, previously marked Commission Exhibit No. 399 for identification, was received in evidence.)

Mr. SPECTER. We have been asked by the FBI that the missile not be handled by anybody because it is undergoing further ballistic tests, and it now appears, may the record show, in a plastic case in a cotton background.

Now looking at that bullet, Exhibit 399, Doctor Humes, could that bullet have gone through or been any part of the fragment passing through President Kennedy's head in Exhibit No. 388?

Commander HUMES. I do not believe so, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And could that missile have made the wound on Governor Connally's right wrist?

Commander HUMES. I think that that is most unlikely. May I expand on those two answers?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes, please do.

Commander HUMES. The X-rays made of the wound in the head of the late President showed fragmentations of the missile. Some fragments we recovered and turned over, as has been previously noted. Also we have X-rays of the fragment of skull which was in the region of our opinion exit wound showing metallic fragments. Also going to Exhibit 392, the report from Parkland Hospital, the following sentence referring to the examination of the wound of the wrist is found: "Small bits of metal were encountered at various levels throughout the wound, and these were, wherever they were identified and could be picked up, picked up and submitted to the pathology department for identification and examination." The reason I believe it most unlikely that this missile could have inflicted either of these wounds is that this missile is basically intact; its jacket appears to me to be intact, and I do not understand how it could possibly have left fragments in either of these locations. (2 H 374-375)

6. The HSCA's trajectory analysis, NOVA's computer simulation, and Posner's SBT diagram all assume Connally was rotated to the right by some 20-25 degrees in order to get the SBT's horizontal trajectory to work, a notion that is plainly refuted by the Zapruder film. Again, the current version of the SBT espoused by most lone-gunman theorists says the alleged magic-bullet hit occurred at ZZ223-224. In the Zapruder film we see Connally's shoulders are facing nearly parallel to the roll bar in Z224. The roll bar is a fixed horizontal point inside the limousine, and thus provides us with an excellent measuring rod. One can look at Z224 and plainly see that Connally's shoulders are nearly parallel to the roll bar, which would not be the case if his torso were rotated 20-25 degrees to the right. FBI photographic expert Lyndal Shaneyfelt noted to the WC that in Z222 Connally is turned only slightly to the right and that in the few frames thereafter he is "almost square, straight on with the car momentarily":

Mr. SHANEYFELT. I might say that as--in the motion picture as the car comes out from behind the signboard, the Governor is turned slightly to his right in this manner. This would be in the first frame, in frame 222, he is turned just slightly to his right, and from there on he turns almost square, straight on with the car momentarily, and there is a jerking motion there at one point in the film about there, at which time he starts to turn this way and continues to turn. (5 H 155)

Like its supposed bullet, the SBT itself seems to be magical. Even when its defenders must admit that a previous key assumption of the theory is invalid, the theory is still, somehow, someway, supposed to be true. The degree of rotation of Connally's shoulders is a good example of the theory's magical ability to adapt. As mentioned, previous trajectory analyses assumed Connally was rotated markedly to the right, by about 20-25 degrees, when the alleged magic bullet hit him. Now, lone-gunman theorists like Todd Vaughan and Dale Myers acknowledge that Connally is rotated no more than 15 degrees to the right in Z224 (Vaughan says 10 degrees, while Myers says 15 degrees). But, somehow, someway, the SBT still supposedly works, according to its defenders, even though previous "expert" trajectory studies found it essential to assume Connally was rotated markedly to the right when the missile struck.

(A similar feat of magical adaptation can be seen in the magic bullet's vertical trajectory. For years WC supporters, based on the chief autopsy doctor's Rydberg diagram and on Arlen Specter's reenactment of the SBT, assumed the bullet struck at a point that was visibly ABOVE the throat wound, AND that the bullet's path from the back wound to the throat wound was DOWNWARD. Then, the HSCA came along and determined that the back wound was nearly 2 inches lower than where it appears in the Rydberg diagram, that the bullet's path through the body actually would have been "SLIGHTLY UPWARD," and that the tissue beneath the back wound seen in the autopsy photos is tunneled UPWARD. But, the SBT's defenders reconsidered the new evidence and announced that somehow, someway, the theory's vertical trajectory still worked.)

7. It is extremely unlikely that CE 399 could have emerged in nearly pristine condition after doing the damage attributed to it. In the WC's wound ballistics tests, bullets that were fired into cotton wadding emerged in the same condition as CE 399. One such test bullet actually suffered MORE damage than CE 399. The bullets that were fired into animal chests and that struck rib bone emerged noticeably more deformed than CE 399. The bullets that were fired into the wrists of human cadavers emerged with significant damage to their noses. In the 1992 All-American Television wound ballistics test, conducted in consultation with forensic expert Dr. Cyril Wecht, the test bullet emerged markedly deformed.

8. I believe the throat wound was an entrance wound, just as the doctors at Parkland Hospital originally reported. The throat bullet might have ranged downward into the chest, as some of the Parkland doctors initially suspected, and it could have been removed at the Bethesda Naval Hospital prior to the autopsy.

The throat wound was small, about 3-5 mm in diameter, fairly neat and round, and punched-in. Dr. Malcolm Perry, who performed the tracheostomy over the throat wound, was so certain the wound was an entrance wound that when a journalist asked him about reports that all the shots were fired from behind, he immediately replied that Kennedy must have turned around just before the bullet struck him in the throat. And Dr. Charles Carrico, who saw the throat wound even before Kennedy's shirt was removed, described the wound as a "small PENETRATING wound" in his 11/22/63 report (WCR 519; CE 392).

Dr. Nathan Jacobs observed that the Parkland doctors described a laceration of the pharynx and trachea that was LARGER than the small throat wound, "indicating that the bullet had traveled from the front of the neck to the back" (Sylvia Meagher, ACCESSORIES AFTER THE FACT, New York: Vintage Books Edition, 1992, p. 158 n 39).

The wound's small size is important because it is wholly consistent with the wound being an entrance wound, not an exit wound. Entry wounds are normally small, while exit wounds are usually larger. As stated, the wound was about 3-5 mm in diameter, and possibly only 2-3 mm in diameter. In a taped 1979 interview, Dr. Charles Baxter, who was one of the Parkland doctors who saw the wound, said the wound "was no more than a pinpoint." He added that it was "made by a small caliber weapon. And it was an entry wound" (Robert Groden and Livingstone, HIGH TREASON, New York: Berkley Books, 1990, p. 45). Interviewed again in 1992, Dr. Baxter said,

Looking at that hole, one would have to [think]--and my immediate thought was that this was an entry wound because it was so small. The hole was only the size of a pencil eraser, about 2 or 2.5 mm across. . . . (Livingstone, KILLING THE TRUTH, p. 718)

Dr. Pierre Finck, one of the autopsists, wrote that the throat wound was approximately 5 mm in diameter (Livingstone, KILLING KENNEDY AND THE HOAX OF THE CENTURY, New York: Carroll and Graf, 1995, p. 217). When Dr. James Humes, the chief pathologist at the autopsy, spoke with Dr. Perry, the throat wound, according to the notes of that phone conversation, was described as "only a few mm in size, 3-5 mm" (David Lifton, BEST EVIDENCE, New York: Carroll and Graf, 1980, p. 275).

The caliber of the ammunition that was supposedly used by the alleged lone-gunman was 6.5 mm. A missile of this caliber would have made a much larger wound if it had exited the throat.

In the WC's own wound ballistics tests, the SMALLEST wound of exit that was created in the simulated human necks was 10 MM IN DIAMETER. WC supporters attempt to explain these tests, and the throat wound's contrastingly small size and neat appearance, by speculating that the collar band of Kennedy's shirt restrained the skin of the neck and prevented it from stretching too far, thereby enabling the bullet to cause the resulting wound to be small and neat. This theory is invalid, however, because WC supporters also claim that the bullet made the slits in the front of the President's shirt as it allegedly exited his neck, and those slits were undeniably BELOW the collar band (see, for example, the photo of the slits in Harold Weisberg, NEVER AGAIN, New York: Carroll and Graf, 1995, p. 245).

So what of the bullet that struck the back? If the throat wound was an entrance wound, what happened to the bullet that struck Kennedy in the back? On the night of the autopsy the autopsy pathologists were absolutely certain the back wound was shallow and had no exit point. This is now undeniably clear from recently released documents. The autopsy pathologists probed the back wound repeatedly. They even opened up the chest and removed the chest organs so they could see the other side of the wound. The wound had no exit point. It most likely resulted from a misfire, which could have struck at a greatly reduced velocity and thus would have penetrated only an inch or two. The misfire explanation explains why so many witnesses said one of the shots sounded very different from the other shots. It also explains why early press reports, citing sources at the autopsy, said a bullet was found in Kennedy's shoulder.

9. There was no direct path from the back wound to the throat wound that could have avoided smashing into the spine. Dr. David Mantik, a radiation oncologist and physicist, studied the autopsy materials at the National Archives and discovered that a bullet that went from the back wound to the throat wound could not have missed smashing through the spine (Livingstone, KILLING KENNEDY AND THE HOAX OF THE CENTURY, pp. 93-94).

Dr. John Nichols, who was a professor of forensic pathology at the University of the Kansas, had already reached the same conclusion, even though he was unable to study the autopsy x-rays. Dr. Nichols deduced from the trajectories involved and from his knowledge of human anatomy that no bullet could have gone from the back wound to the throat wound without smashing into one of the transverse processes of the spine. Said Dr. Nichols,

Figure 6 is the view through Oswald's telescopic sight at Frame 222, showing the depressed angle of 20.23 degrees prevailing at the first shot as measured in the FBI reenactment. I have both measured and calculated the lateral angle at this frame to be 9.21 degrees. Elementary anatomy indicated that the minimum lateral angle for the bullet to miss the transverse processes and emerge in the midline [of the throat] is 28 degrees; this is obviously impossible from Oswald's alleged firing position.

10. There is no fabric missing from the slits in the front of JFK's shirt, and there is no hole through JFK's tie and no nick on the edge of the tie's knot.

Let's consider the issue of the fabric of the shirt slits first. According to the SBT, the magic bullet made those slits as it exited the throat. When bullets tear through fabric and create a hole as they exit, they usually remove some fabric from the hole. However, when Dr. Mantik examined the slits at the National Archives, he found that no fabric whatsoever appears to be missing from the slits.

And now to the fact that there is no hole through the knot of JFK's tie nor on the edge of the knot: When Harold Weisberg was finally able to obtain photos of the president's tie, he discovered what the WC and the FBI apparently had wanted to keep secret--that there is no hole through the tie knot and no hole on the edge of the knot. The HSCA later confirmed Weisberg's discovery.

As mentioned, the SBT says the exiting magic bullet made the slits in the front of JFK's shirt. Of course, JFK's tie knot was positioned over the spot where the slits were made. If a bullet had exited Kennedy's throat, it would have either put a hole through the knot or at least nicked the edge of the knot. Photos of the knot show there is no nick on either of its edges, and there is no hole through the knot. There is only a small nick on left side of the knot--this nick is visibly inward from the knot's left edge.

SBT defenders suggest the FBI untied and then retied the tie and that the retied knot shifted the nick's position, i.e., that before the tie was supposedly untied and retied the nick was originally on the left edge of the knot. But why would the FBI have taken evidence photos of the tie in an altered configuration? Standard procedure would have been to photograph the tie in its original condition and configuration.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that at some point the tie was untied and retied, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the nick was originally on the knot's left edge. The FBI never made any such claim. We can be certain that if the nick originally had been on the knot's left edge, the FBI would have made it a point to document this, or at least to mention it.

[Psycho4Bud]

BWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Only I know the real truth and now you shall know too!!!







































IT WAS SANTA'S SECRET ARMY!!!

[eg420ne]

Damn it santa we will kill you---Why does santa hate freedom

[eg420ne]

Howdy PSY.....

[Psycho4Bud]

Damn it santa we will kill you---Why does santa hate freedom

He's been finding ways into our homes for years now, stealing our milk and cookies....don't you think that he had an agenda???


SANTA SHALL RULE THE EARTH!!!

[Psycho4Bud]

Howdy PSY.....


Hey dude....Merry XXX-Mas!!! :thumbsup:

[eg420ne]

Hey dude....Merry XXX-Mas!!! :thumbsup:
LOL--same 2 you--