US defends use of white phosphorus against Iraq insurgents

[Psycho4Bud]

WASHINGTON (AFX) - The US today defended the use of white phosphorus munitions against insurgents in Iraq last year but denied civilians were targeted.

The toxic agent was used during what a US army journal called 'shake and bake' missions against insurgents in the battle for Fallujah last year.

'It's part of our conventional weapons inventory. We use it like we use any other conventional weapon,' said Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman.

Whitman said he had no knowledge of any civilian victims of attacks with white phosphorus.

'We don't target any civilians with any of our weapons, and to suggest US forces were targeting civilians with these weapons would be wrong,' he said.

'We don't target civilian populations. We go to great lengths to do everything possible to prevent civilian casualties, and collateral damage to property,' he said.

Reports that white phosphorous was used in Fallujah has thrust the US into a new controversy over Iraq war tactics.

But another Defense Department spokesman highlighted that white phosphorous has been used by armies around the world for the past century.

A yellowish substance with a pungent smell similar to garlic, white phosphorous erupts spontaneously into fire when exposed to oxygen, releasing a dense white smoke.

Incandescent particles of white phosphorus can cause deep, painful chemical burns, said GlobalSecurity.Org, a Washington group that gathers information on military subjects.

A report on the battle of Fallujah published in April in the army journal Field Artillery said white phosphorous 'proved to be an effective and versatile munition' in Fallujah.

'We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE (high explosives),' said the report.

'We fired 'shake and bake' missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out,' it said.

'We used improved WP for screening missions when HC smoke would have been more effective and saved our WP for lethal missions,' it said.

Whitman said US forces used the munition mainly to create smoke screens in battle and to mark targets, but he acknowledged they were used against insurgents as well.

Lieutenant Colonel Barry Venable, another Pentagon spokesman, said the white phosphorus also was used as an incendiary weapon.

'It has been used in armies the world over for most the past century, I believe. It was used by US forces in Operation Al Fajr, specifically to target enemy combatants so we could defeat them,' he said.
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2005/11/16/afx2341690.html

Used by armies thoughout the world for the past century.....I guess Italy forgot to mention that fact though! :thumbsup:

[Tholiak]

ok..what is any different between this and Napalm? It is TOTALLY legal to use against combatants..its not "technically" a chemical weapon, its a tracer round used to light up targets. And besides..it was being shot at people trying to murder us soldiers..who the hell cares what kind of method was used to kill them?

[eg420ne]

So we accused saddam of using chemical weapons on his people, but its alright for the U.S. 2 use chemical weapons.

[Psycho4Bud]

So we accused saddam of using chemical weapons on his people, but its alright for the U.S. 2 use chemical weapons.

The ones Saddam used weren't allowed by the international community while the "substance" we used is considered A-O.K. :thumbsup:

Besides that, he INTENTIONALLY used his on civilians.

[Tholiak]

You dont know how this weapon works dumbass..Usually it is fired overhead and explodes, lights up the sky like you would see the fireworks that light the sky up in a bright light. But in this case, they were fired inside of Windows, to let the people inside shooting at OUR soldiers to get a lil light in their life.

[eg420ne]

STFU dude, fukin dumbass

[yocass]

STFU dude, fukin dumbass
He has proven his side of the story... good arguement indeed

[nicholasstanko]

Yep, you guys make me fucking sick.

White phosphoruous is explicitly forbidden to be used against civilians. It is ok to use as signal flares, but when aimed directly at civilians and soldiers it is classified as a chem weapon.

You obviously dont know what happens as phosphorous is used. the skin melts away for hours and water wont help a fuck.

but of course, you shit faced assholes dont care because they're only muslims. Just because it isnt condemned, doesnt mean that it should be used. Innocent people died and you guys cheer on.


may you burn in hell.

[Psycho4Bud]

Yep, you guys make me fucking sick.

Get well soon!! :thumbsup:

White phosphoruous is explicitly forbidden to be used against civilians. It is ok to use as signal flares, but when aimed directly at civilians and soldiers it is classified as a chem weapon.

FALSE...use against soldiers is alright.

You obviously dont know what happens as phosphorous is used. the skin melts away for hours and water wont help a fuck.

It actually keeps eating all flesh till it hits the bone. Water doesn't help fuck but fuckin' in the water is fun!! :thumbsup:

but of course, you shit faced assholes dont care because they're only muslims. Just because it isnt condemned, doesnt mean that it should be used. Innocent people died and you guys cheer on.

An insurgent firing an AK at our troops is an innocent person?

may you burn in hell.

See ya there buddy!! :thumbsup:

By the way, I recall a cigar story indian stating that we should all play nice together...did you miss your tolorance training??? :smokin:

[nicholasstanko]

See ya there buddy!! :thumbsup:

By the way, I recall a cigar story indian stating that we should all play nice together...did you miss your tolorance training??? :smokin:


Hey moron. I said that its use against civilians isnt alright. I mentioned that when used against civilians or soldiers its THEN classified as a chem weapon.

[Psycho4Bud]

Hey moron. I said that its use against civilians isnt alright. I mentioned that when used against civilians or soldiers its THEN classified as a chem weapon.

Well hello dumbass. (since thats how ya wanna play it)
Use against soldiers...enemy combatants is fine by the international community....take it up with the U.N.! :thumbsup:

[pisshead]

Hey moron. I said that its use against civilians isnt alright. I mentioned that when used against civilians or soldiers its THEN classified as a chem weapon.don't even bother...put him on ignore, what the fuck has he done here, what does he add to the discussion...absolutely nothing. his words are worthless.

their minds are so far gone, their idea of freedom is tyranny for us and tyranny for all...saddam's bad because he uses weapons on people, yet our government does the same thing...why should i point fingers and tell people halfway around the world they need to have freedom when this country's freedom is going down the drain?

i'm going to work on what's going on at home...let the neo-con war mongers give up their rights and take the rights of others...they're going to get what's theirs...as are the fake democrats who think their candidate's going to do a fuck of a difference...

i'm so radical, i believe in constitutional freedom and not intervening in other country's affairs, especially when those countries are doing the same thing to its people as mine is...

real freedom, constitutional freedom, scares the shit out of the socialist neo-cons and fake democrats...

[Psycho4Bud]

don't even bother...put him on ignore, what the fuck has he done here, what does he add to the discussion...absolutely nothing. his words are worthless.

Since you have me on ignore you wouldn't know what I had to say or add you dumb fuckin' piece of whale shit! Go back to suckin' off A. Jones as you do sooooo very well! :dance:

[pisshead]

another weapon of mass destruction that our country is allowed to actually USE...and has used...many many tons worth...

i'd like to know why other countries can't even think about creating the capability to make these weapons while our country is allowed to actively use them against other people?

i'm just not capable to doublethink that much i guess...i used to be able to, but not anymore.

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/32194.htm

http://www.refuseandresist.org/war/art.php?aid=789
Christian Science Monitor: Remains of Toxic Bullets Litter Iraq

http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=38849&highlight=depleted+uranium

National Press Conference on Depleted Uranium with Doug Rokke,Ph.D.


Doug Rokke, Ph.D., is former Director of the U.S. Army Depleted Uranium (DU) Project


Dr. Rokke made a number of startling revelations. Over 221,000 veterans from
Gulf I are on permanent disability. Now, soldiers are coming back sick. DU
is suspected as a cause. He goes into details about how the soldiers who
went to the Gulf were ill-trained and ill-equipped to deal with radioactive
munitions. These munitions cause a radioactive and highly toxic dust when
used.


CLICK PLAY TO LISTEN
Click Here To Download (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1/DougRokke23july03.mpga)


Traprock Peace Center hosted the press conference with participants from
Washington, DC; New York State; North Carolina; South Dakota, Oregon and
Massachusetts.
July 23, 2003: More information:

Traprock Peace Center hosted this national call-in press conference with
Doug Rokke, Ph.D. on 'depleted' uranium, which has been used by US, UK and
Australian troops in the Iraq War.

Dr. Rokke made a number of startling revelations. Over 221,000 veterans from
Gulf I are on permanent disability. Now, soldiers are coming back sick. DU
is suspected as a cause. He goes into details about how the soldiers who
went to the Gulf were ill-trained and ill-equipped to deal with radioactive
munitions. These munitions cause a radioactive and highly toxic dust when
used.

US, UK and Australian troops have spread this radioactive material widely in
Iraq, to the long term detriment of Iraqi civilians and coalition soldiers
as well. This spreading of radioactive contamination in Iraq is something
that the US could not have done in the US without violating environmental
and health laws.

Participating in the press conference were:

Doug Rokke, Ph.D., former Director of the U.S. Army Depleted Uranium (DU)
Project in the aftermath of the Gulf War; Vietnam and Gulf War veteran.

Sunny Miller - Moderator, Traprock Peace Center, http://traprockpeace.org (http://traprockpeace.org/)
Andrew Stelzer, WBOO, Portland, OR
Elizabeth Christanson, WRBO, Syracuse, NY
Jon Hunt, The Fuse, Boone, NC
Jean Koster, South Dakota Sun
Mike Zmolek, National Network to End the War Against Iraq,
http://www.endthewar.org (http://www.endthewar.org/)

Dr. Rokke spoke on the road, as he is in the start of a 3 state Summer Tour
on 'Depleted' Uranium through August 10. The tour is organized by Traprock
Peace Center and local hosts. More information on the tour is available at
http://traprockpeace.org/rokkesummerdutour03.html (http://traprockpeace.org/rokkesummerdutour03.html)

The tour continues in September with mainly mid-west and west-coast dates.
Groups wishing to host Doug Rokke or media wishing to interview him should
call Sunny Miller at 413-773-7427.

In mid-October, Dr. Rokke will present at the World Uranium Weapons
Conference in Hamburg. Get more information, with valuable links to
resources on DU at http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de/speakers.htm (http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de/speakers.htm)

Traprock's home page has recent items on 'depleted' uranium. It's main
resource page on DU, with links to other resources, is found at
http://traprockpeace.org/depleteduranium.html (http://traprockpeace.org/depleteduranium.html) FURTHER ARTICLES ON THIS TOPIC (http://www.google.com/custom?sa=GIMP%3Ared%3BT%3Ablack%3BLW%3A501%3BALC% 3Ablue%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationclearingh ouse.info%2Fimages%2FBAN1.gif%3BGFNT%3Agrey%3BLC%3 Ablack%3BLH%3A61%3BAH%3Acenter%3BVLC%3Ared%3BS%3Ah ttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationclearinghouse.info%3BAW FID%3A5e7ae7f73a1389ac%3B&domains=www.informationclearinghouse.info&q=du&cof=Google+Search&sitesearch=www.informationclearinghouse.info) ON THIS TOPIC

[Psycho4Bud]

Leave it to lil' pissy to change over the topic to his choosing! :thumbsup:

[BlueCat00]

well it seems things haven't changed much around here....

You guys still can't seem to see the problem with supporting violent neanderthol ways....

How is American ever going to regain a shed of honor with arm chair soldiers like yourselves wanting to kill, burn or shoot anything that aint a cowboy?

For the record:

First hand testimonials from ex Marines confirming that white phosphorus was used in Fallujah and explaining that it burns your body but not your clothing, will boil your lungs from the inside if inhaled, and is almost impossible to stop burning.
Footage of corpses of men, women and children who had the entirety of their skin burnt off, in some cases all the way to the bone, but their clothing left intact â?? the trademark of white phosphorus â?? and in several cases with their musculature not quite burnt through, so you could see the expressions (from what I saw, expressions of horror) on their faces as they died.
Footage of men, women and children being hospitalized for severe burns. *Footage of helicopters launching streams of white fire explained as white phosphorus on an urban area the filmmakers say is Fallujah.
Interviews with civilians (translated from Arabic) explaining what itâ??s like to be in a white phosphorus attack.
Claims are also made that genetic deformities in children in Fallujah have arisen subsequent to white phosphorus attacks.

White phosphorus is a chemical by definition. If used as a weapon, that would make it a CHEMICAL WEAPON, wouldnâ??t it? Just by semantics alone â?? without even taking into account the horrific damage the weapon does â?? itâ??s obvious that it, like this whole cock-up of a war, should be outlawed.

Furthermore, if it wasnâ??t such a big deal, why would the Pentagon try to cover it up â?? why would they lie about it in the first place, as BBC reports that they did?

Similar chemicals, like napalm, have been banned, but the Pentagon finds ways of getting around bans by inventing new chemical compounds with similar effects and compositions but different names.

That the weapon was used is a horrific surprise. That the American government continues to lie unapologetically to its constituency is just as horrific, but no surprise.

Washington is not a signatory of the international treaty that bans the use of white phosphorus as a weapon. However, the US is a signatory of the 1977 Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol 1)
Adopted on 8 June 1977 by the Diplomatic Conference on the Reaffirmation and Development of International Humanitarian Law applicable in Armed Conflicts.
The part IV of this protocol, on itâ??s chapters I, II and III provides a rule for the protection of the civilian population (chapter II, articles 50 and 51) , civilian objects (chapter III articles 52 to 54) and the natural environment (chapter III, article 55).

On article 51, paragraph 4 we read:
4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:

(a) Those which are not directed at a specific military objective;

(b) Those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or

(c) Those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.

5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:

(a) An attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and

(b) An attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.



Hello Nic and Pisshead glad you are still raking thru their shit....:D someboby has to have a voice of reason....

[pisshead]

hey! how's it going...is everything alright...?

[BlueCat00]

:D everythings fine...thanks for asking!

[nicholasstanko]

:D everythings fine...thanks for asking!


Youre back!


How are you?! its been awhile. me an pissyve been holding down the fort and hempity's real cool too.

i thought something bad had happened. how is your health?


Great to have ya back, blue.



ooooh yer gonna git it now psycho :D

[Psycho4Bud]

Youre back!


How are you?! its been awhile. me an pissyve been holding down the fort and hempity's real cool too.

Yipper, the three mouseketeers have been the shit!

i thought something bad had happened. how is your health?


Great to have ya back, blue.



ooooh yer gonna git it now psycho :D

Cool, didn't even know she had a crush on me! :dance:

[Psycho4Bud]

White Phosphorus (WP)
White Phosphorus (WP), known as Willy Pete, is used for signaling, screening, and incendiary purposes. White Phosphorus can be used to destroy the enemy's equipment or to limit his vision. It is used against vehicles, petroleum, oils and lubricants (POL) and ammunition storage areas, and enemy observers. WP can be used as an aid in target location and navigation. It is usually dispersed by explosive munitions. It can be fired with fuze time to obtain an airburst. White phosphorus was used most often during World War II in military formulations for smoke screens, marker shells, incendiaries, hand grenades, smoke markers, colored flares, and tracer bullets.

The Battle of Fallujah was conducted from 8 to 20 November 2004 with the last fire mission on 17 November. The battle was fought by an Army, Marine and Iraqi force of about 15,000 under the I Marine Expeditionary Force (IMEF). US forces found WP to be useful in the Battle of Fallujah. "WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE. We fired â??shake and bakeâ?� missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out. ... We used improved WP for screening missions when HC smoke would have been more effective and saved our WP for lethal missions."

White phosphorus is not banned by any treaty to which the United States is a signatory. Smokes and obscurants comprise a category of materials that are not used militarily as direct chemical agents. The United States retains its ability to employ incendiaries to hold high-priority military targets at risk in a manner consistent with the principle of proportionality that governs the use of all weapons under existing law. The use of white phosphorus or fuel air explosives are not prohibited or restricted by Protocol II of the Certain Conventional Weapons Convention (CCWC), the Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons which may be Deemed to be Excessively Injurious or to have Indiscriminate Effects.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm

Guess we followed proper procedure. Unless it is determined that we targeted civilians...like the insurgents we killed did....there should be no problem with the international community. :thumbsup:

[BlueCat00]

these are the magic words...White phosphorus is not banned by any treaty to which the United States is a signatory.


The present administration has made a point of NOT being part of any weapons band including the cluster bombs that Princess Di fought to ban. The ones that are still blowing the legs off little children. Just because we did not sign a weapons ban that does not MAKE IT RIGHT.

Never in history has our country taken such a stance. Since WW2 we have been the champions of human rights....and we as citizens must continue to stand up for human rights everywhere regardless of what THIS government does.

NEVER has our country been so disgraced! We have a president and VP that refuses to sign a treaty against torture. All the military stand behind McCain's anti torture Bill, 90 % of congress stands behind it but YOUR president and VP want to have the right to torture. This makes our country look bad. You make our country look bad by trying to come up with reasons it is ok to use chemical weapons....by making excuses.

There is NO EXCUSE.

How can you preach repeatedly that we are in Iraq to spread democracy then turn around and condone acts that are against the very principles and moral values on which this country was founded?

Better get you morals straight. You cannot support the ethical treatment of our soldiers AND make excuses for human rights violations. You are working both ends against the middle and it makes no sense....

Paid for by the committee to return honor to America and put the right wingers back under the rocks from wince they came.

[Psycho4Bud]

Whew...thought that was intended for me and then I read this:

"Paid for by the committee to return honor to America and put the right wingers back under the rocks from wince they came."

Since you know I'm Libertarian all I can ask is for you to show a lil' tolorance of our right wing brothers and sisters! :thumbsup:

[BlueCat00]

NEVER.:D

[Psycho4Bud]

LOL....it is nice to see the CAT back!! :thumbsup:

[andruejaysin]

I've used red phosphorus against pseudofed, does that make me a war criminal?