free speech

[ladyM]

:confused: Recently there was an article in the news that a woman was banned from a flight on southwest airlines for a t-shirt she was wearing that other passengers found offensive. The shirt had a pic of presidents Bush and Clinton and the word 'fuck'. The airline told her if she changed her shirt she could resume her next flight on the way. She said no. She was unable to fly on to her destination.
I thought we had the freedom of speech in this country. This is the sort of thing that hurts all of us. What is offensive to one is not nessesarily offensive to another. I am not an historian and I am not an expert on the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, but I do know that once things start being banned as offensive, there will be no end to it. There is art, music, language, books, religion, etc that people find offensive and others think is the greatest thing going. Does that mean it should be banned because some narrowminded, ignorant, fear ridden, prejudiced group of people say so? Not quite.
Our founding fathers were no angels, but I think they would be turning over in the grave to hear this. It seems our Constitution has become unconstitutional! Freedom is freedom. Just as you have the right to be offensive, you also have the right to walk away from things you find visually offensive and turn off what you find audibly offensive. I try not to be offensive to others, but you cant please all the people all the time.
I would really like to hear some feedback on the subject and hope you dont find the issue offensive.

[beachguy in thongs]

I'm, almost, embarassed to wear my '10 Most Wanted Marijuana Strands' shirt because I'll get tailed all the way home, by cops, detectives,stoners, and wild animals.

Everything about our country (well, most things) is not an image of our Founding Fathers', and they couldn't have possibly imagined the outside influences affecting our leaders' decisions (like cars, trains, and planes). Abe Lincoln would feel so oppressed if he were a free-man, in today's United States of America.

[F L E S H]

I'm, almost, embarassed to wear my '10 Most Wanted Marijuana Strands' shirt because I'll get tailed all the way home, by cops, detectives,stoners, and wild animals.
And me...

[beachguy in thongs]

Uh Oh, I may start wearing that shirt to Church, but I don't go to Church, or hardly wear shirts, but you gave me a good idea for a tattoo, especially if I want some Flesh to follow me back to where I lay.

[colton]

Sort of the same i knew a bloke got chucked out of college for wearing a 'fuck allah' t shirt - he nearly got killed too!

[3 Sheets To The Wind]

Sort of the same i knew a bloke got chucked out of college for wearing a 'fuck allah' t shirt - he nearly got killed too!


Huge Muslim/Asian community in this country now, they are gonna be in control and there'll be a higher population of them than the "British" people.
They were always the ones causing the trouble at my high school and starting fights and saying "I'll get ma' brrrrrothers!"

This one time about 1 and a half years ago i was like in the phase of saying "go home!" to people that said something to me (chavs abusing our crowd and stuff lol) and this Yemeny girl said some shit to me and i said "Go 'ome!" without thinking, then i realised "Ahh fuck, she won't like that" and she kicked me lol, and as she went to kick again she slipped and went down lol, someone threw a sandwich at her;)

This country is going to pot (wish that was literally!)
Things will never be the same again..

[420purplehaze420]

if someone finds my shirt offensive i tell them not to look at it, when i wore a corona shirt with a girl in a thong bikini on the back, to school the teachers told me to i had to wear it inside out, and i said no, im not going to hide a natural beautiful thing like that when people can just as easily turn there heads if they dont want to see it and there like uhhh....well then your going to have to leave so i grabbed my back pack and walked out the door, i have rights and i exersize them lol

[Ousted]

The shirt had a pic of presidents Bush and Clinton and the word 'fuck'.

What were the presidents doing? How was "fuck" used?

Was one president having graphic anal sex with the other with a caption like "fuck the leader"?

Was it the presidents just smiling, and say "fuck yeah, we're presidents!"

Was it a shirt of the presidents simultaneously screaming "FUCK!" with an image of terrorists highjacking another plane?


Too vague of a story for me to care just yet about infringement of free speech. More details would be appreciated. :)

[kr0nicmike]

Actually since the airline is a private company, they dont have to let you on their planes. Im not trying to defend the Gov. or anything, (would love to have just 5 minutes in a room with bush and me brass knucks) but the airline and the gov. are two different things. How do you think the airports are allowed to search you? Its because they are offering a service to you and you must abide by their rules.

[mellow mood]

what u didnt understood lady, its that USA doesnt allow FREEDOM

thats why bush is a COCK SUCKER

thats why u cant smoke weed. WE'RE NOT FREE.



but.. at least here i have the right to post THIS

lol

[hipEstoner]

fuck people who say free speech is wrong, i will kill them all and piss on their face and shit on their grave and kill their family and everyone il will kill kill kill murder murder murder

[mellow mood]

fuck people who say free speech is wrong, i will kill them all and piss on their face and shit on their grave and kill their family and everyone il will kill kill kill murder murder murder

ok...

[3 Sheets To The Wind]

ok...


"All units dispatched to mellow mood's house"

FREEZE.

I like the pics man!

[ladyM]

The details of the shirt were vague and was supposedly a referrence to the movie, Meet the Fockers, a play on the words. They wont show the shirt, but its easy enuff to put it together. The 2 presidents and " Meet the Fuckers " is the most likely scenario.
I do realize that freedom is a relative term here.

[phareye]

from what i heard, it was a pic of Condy Rice, Bush, and Cheney, with the caption "Meet the Fokkers".
I have to admit that i was a lil' taken aback when the film itself first came out. I mean, it's not a terribly witty play on words and not too hard to miss what it's a reference to. So, we live in a country where hollywood can put some seriously racy or raunchy stuff on the air (or billboard, etc.), but a young lady w/ a t-shirt is refused her seat on a flight.
I LOVE HALIBURTON!!!!

Personally, i think airport security is a joke. We saw what happened on 9/11 when word got to the 4th plane about what was happening: they acted. The SECOND someone stands up on a plane and yells "I have a bomb!!", he's getting dropped by the passengers.
We know what fanatics can do now, and i don't think we'd ever let them do it again.
Secure aviation? OK. Leave everything else vulnerable while you're at it.

[yocass]

Actually since the airline is a private company, they dont have to let you on their planes. Im not trying to defend the Gov. or anything, (would love to have just 5 minutes in a room with bush and me brass knucks) but the airline and the gov. are two different things. How do you think the airports are allowed to search you? Its because they are offering a service to you and you must abide by their rules.


he basically hit the nail on the head. Same for private schools. Just like in stores you see a sign that says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. That could be because your just to damn ugly, or they just felt like not serving you today. What in bloody hell does that have to do with free speech/government/freedoms being taken away? You dont let people you despise into your house Im sure... you freedom hater!

[dirtyhippy420]

It seams like some people feel like they have the right not to be offended, which is the biggest load of shit ever. If you don't like it don't look\smell\touch\listen [at\to] the medium in question. Is self censorship so hard we have to have the government do it for us? Are we seriously that lazy?

[ladyM]

I am offended quite frequently, and I most likely offend more frequently! I can walk away from shit as wall as the next, its those that have to impose their will on others that are freedom haters.

[colton]

Its bollox everything offends someone - People have been told not to display the St Georges cross because it could offend minorities when its our national flag for fuck sakes!!! Also some councils have played down Xmas because it could offend other religions so they call it the festival season instead, has the world gone mad?

ps i got two St Georges flags flying outside my house and this Christmas im gonna decorate my house so much it would put Clark Griswald to shame!!!

[robert42]

want me to push free speech to the limit?

[robert42]

why do black people have a black on black crime unit? but white people don't

why can balck rappers say on songs "crackers" "white motherfucker" and other racist stuff but its ok and they sell thousands of albums.

why on lethal weapon 4 does the black policeman say "please let the baby be black"

im not promoting/racism or whatever u may want to throw at me just voicing what i see/hear...

i honestly dont mean to offend no1

[colton]

why do black people have a black on black crime unit? but white people don't

why can balck rappers say on songs "crackers" "white motherfucker" and other racist stuff but its ok and they sell thousands of albums.

why on lethal weapon 4 does the black policeman say "please let the baby be black"

im not promoting/racism or whatever u may want to throw at me just voicing what i see/hear...

i honestly dont mean to offend no1

I agree totally!!

[robert42]

thanks for the support :D

there plenty more of that to back up my claims....

its just sad if black people want white people to move on after all the slavery bullshit why cant they? (obviously its not everyone) but the racial card does get played too often IMO

[colton]

thanks for the support :D

there plenty more of that to back up my claims....

its just sad if black people want white people to move on after all the slavery bullshit why cant they? (obviously its not everyone) but the racial card does get played too often IMO


Its true a friend of mine was beaten up by some asians who were calling him white cunt and all that yet the police wouldnt class it as a racial attack, when if a white person beats up some one of different creed its called racist even if it wernt

[robert42]

yup its true espc in london the race issues come up daily i live in a black area, near tottenham and when i was at school when the teacher said anything to the black kids it would be "its cos im black init" then the teacher woukld suck up to them so they dont get there big bro to kick there balls in haha

but its not a laughtin matter me and 4 mates (including Shane o Mac from this forum) were jumped by over 20 black boys ata train station one day in what i call a racist attack but police didnt care but if u kick a black person then its racial

[mellow mood]

yea blacks are as much racist as whites

what sux is when a black is stupid and u wanna just tell him to fuck off the first word that comes to everyone is racism

[amsterdam]

i gotta say, i have never seen a more racist enviroment than a european soccer match.

in germany and france during UEFA play,everytime a black guy touches the ball the entire crowd starts making monkey sounds.terrible.

[robert42]

yea ive seen that plenty of times...

[beachguy in thongs]

This is why you gotta love Baseball. On one TV screen, you see a Cuban pitching to a Jap, with an Italian catcher, and a Jewish umpire.

[colton]

Yeah you see it in all European countries at matches, Rarely see it in England though if ever, football is a proper multi cultural sport!

[w4terb0ng]

so next time go to the train station with a pillowcase on your head. lol.

[3 Sheets To The Wind]

so next time go to the train station with a pillowcase on your head. lol.


Or just a white hoody with the hood pointed up at the top..
My mate put his hood up, and it was pointed at the top as they always are, when it started raining ages ago, and we were walking down the street with some black fools on the other side, and one shouted "racist fuck!" and they were trying to cross the road but there was too much traffic lol;)

[Mojavpa]

i gotta say, i have never seen a more racist enviroment than a european soccer match.

in germany and france during UEFA play,everytime a black guy touches the ball the entire crowd starts making monkey sounds.terrible.

Yes, I gotta agree with you. Every time I go to Europe I'm always surprised at how racist Europeans are. Its like they're scared that Europe will lose its "European character" one day or something.

[anycraic]

Yes, I gotta agree with you. Every time I go to Europe I'm always surprised at how racist Europeans are. Its like they're scared that Europe will lose its "European character" one day or something.

i agree that there definitely is racism , and one of the reasons is that we get fucking millions of immigrants from all over the place , and its starting to swamp some areas out.
the second largest turkish city in the world is in germany, and 50% of turkey said it would move to the mainland when they join the eu, thats another 30 MILLION immigrants right there!
and theres north africa where basically people from all over africa try to rush into spain and its territories like cueta and mellila all the time, 500 people trying to climb razor wire fences at a time. they catch thousands and thousands every year.
60,000 eastern europeans flooded ireland in one year alone.

basically im not racist in any way, but a lot of people see it as an invasion , as its happening so fast

[dirtyhippy420]

I am offended quite frequently, and I most likely offend more frequently! I can walk away from shit as wall as the next, its those that have to impose their will on others that are freedom haters.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[ladyM]

I think you all might like this, please check out: tshirthell.com They deserve kilos of kudos!

[robert42]

do i pwn or do i pwn lol

[Mirno Sctlnd]

Yeah they whole race thing's starting to get a bit shitty in britian right now with all those special priveleages to not "offened" muslims. When they end up getting priveleges that us regular joe's do get, like why is there an asian football league, and you get asain areas but if an area's called white it's rascist and "imposing" theres alot more and I can't really be arsed.
Oh and all those new laws are shit, like why put someone in prison for 3 months with no evidence, surely if they had commited a terrorist crime there would be some FUCKING EVIDENCE!

[TonyD]

When i was in getting my new passport in Glasgow they search any bags you have now all 3 security guards checking bags were from middle east descent now that is taking it over the top.

[phareye]

it's human nature to take comfort in the fact that some one else is different (and possibly inferior) to one's own self.
if you follow up any statement on race w/ "i'm not racist", then chances are youre a racist...
but buck up, lil' campers!!!
black, white, asian, native... WE'RE ALL RACIST!!!
or, more appropriatly, we ALL hold predjudices.
hippy=prejudice against bankers
bankers=prejudice against the cleaning crew
cleaning crew=prejudice against the new imigrants who haven't found jobs on cleaning crews yet

i mean, hell: the ARMY hates the NAVY hates the MARINES hates the AIR FORCE. they're all doing the same thing, more or less.
i just don't think human beings can resist competeing against others, and if we can make up some reason to make them "The Other", then it's easier to compete AGAINST them.

[robert42]

amen great post phareye

[Torog]

:confused: Recently there was an article in the news that a woman was banned from a flight on southwest airlines for a t-shirt she was wearing that other passengers found offensive. The shirt had a pic of presidents Bush and Clinton and the word 'f*ck'. The airline told her if she changed her shirt she could resume her next flight on the way. She said no. She was unable to fly on to her destination.
I thought we had the freedom of speech in this country. This is the sort of thing that hurts all of us. What is offensive to one is not nessesarily offensive to another. I am not an historian and I am not an expert on the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, but I do know that once things start being banned as offensive, there will be no end to it. There is art, music, language, books, religion, etc that people find offensive and others think is the greatest thing going. Does that mean it should be banned because some narrowminded, ignorant, fear ridden, prejudiced group of people say so? Not quite.
Our founding fathers were no angels, but I think they would be turning over in the grave to hear this. It seems our Constitution has become unconstitutional! Freedom is freedom. Just as you have the right to be offensive, you also have the right to walk away from things you find visually offensive and turn off what you find audibly offensive. I try not to be offensive to others, but you cant please all the people all the time.
I would really like to hear some feedback on the subject and hope you dont find the issue offensive.
Howdy LadyM,

If you believe that obscenity and lewdness,should be paraded in the public,then you may want to move to Oregon,they just approved the 'right' of businesses to have live sex shows..I just posted an article by Bill O'Reilly,in the politics forum,called,"Express Yourself",that addresses the issue somewhat.

It also somewhat proves that which I've contended for a long time-that the Left is intent on spreading debauchery and promoting the worst,in human character.

The Left,is intent on turning America into Sodom and Gommorah,they will call it 'free speech',but it's really all about debauchery,on every street corner..because they want to destroy all traditions and norms,and bring everyone down to their level.

Have a good one ...

PS: here some cookies and milk for ya..while ya ponder upon my reply ...

[anycraic]

ah that terrible terrible thing called the left.
those leftist BASTARDS really piss me off, because of those fuckers ive got free healthcare, decriminalized marijuana and the right to express myself in any way i want.
may they all rot in hell.....

[Mirno Sctlnd]

I'd rather have left wing trying to spread freedom of speach then some old time christian republican scum getting into everyones buisness and banning everything.

[phareye]

[QUOTE=Torog]
It also somewhat proves that which I've contended for a long time-that the Left is intent on spreading debauchery and promoting the worst,in human character.[QUOTE=Torog]

first off, o'reilly's "no spin zone" is an oxy-moron. a man who makes statements like, "poverty was 15.2% under clinton; under bush, poverty has dropped to 12.3%".
if you check the facts on those #'s, you'll find that the poverty rate was 15.2% the day clinton stepped into the oval office.
the poverty rate was 12.3% the day bush jr. took office.
no spin?
figures never lie, but liars sure do figure.

[QUOTE=Torog]The Left,is intent on turning America into Sodom and Gommorah,they will call it 'free speech',but it's really all about debauchery,on every street corner..because they want to destroy all traditions and norms,and bring everyone down to their level.[QUOTE=Torog]

for all intents and purposes, i'm a leftist liberal. just like Adams and Jefferson (y'know, of the founding fathers?), my firmest belief is, "be just; do good". now, i personally know no liberals who would argue against that maxim. i also know of no lefty, no matter how many trees they hug or fags they know or darkies/mud-people/coloreds they congregate with, who has advocated sodomy on every street corner.
what i find more threatening to our democracy and values is how Haliburton got a no-bid emergency contract in louisiana.... for 5 years. now, TRADITIONALLY, emergency no-bids are good for ONE year.
also threatening to our democracy is the missing billions from the Iraqi Coalition Authority... which no one in congress seems to want to investigate.
yeah. i love republicans, especially those who don't actually understand the principles of the republican party.

[phareye]

got my quotes all wrong on the last one.
(none highlighted)
sorry.

[phareye]

oh yeah.
hey, Torog.
you keep up w/ the "god's country" texas drivel, i'll have some friends cut Alaska in half and make Texas the THIRD largest state!

[beachguy in thongs]

WE'RE ALL RACIST!!!
or, more appropriatly, we ALL hold predjudices.
hippy=prejudice against bankers
bankers=prejudice against the cleaning crew
cleaning crew=prejudice against the new imigrants who haven't found jobs on cleaning crews yet

i mean, hell: the ARMY hates the NAVY hates the MARINES hates the AIR FORCE. they're all doing the same thing, more or less.
i just don't think human beings can resist competeing against others, and if we can make up some reason to make them "The Other", then it's easier to compete AGAINST them.

I'm sorry, phar-I, I'd have to defiantly recluse your first statement, whatever that means. You just called me a racist. :confused:

[prplchknz]

for some reason this thread reminded me of a list a made up the other day out of sheer boredom:
1. "well, officer I had to steal the shovel to bury a body"

2. a movie with necrophiliacs and corpses as actors probably won't do
well.(unless it's a porno of necrophiliacs)

3. "sir/mam I'll suck your dick if you let me go home" to a police
officer, especially if it's female or gay. (Unless the offer)

4. shouldn't try and get a born again christian to become gay/ kill anyone
or any of those other mortal sins, by convincing them that hell isn't that
bad they have free marshmellows.

5. Starting the cult of fistifacation in the back of catholic church is a
bad idea

6. shouldn't drive on the wrong side of street and try and convince the
officer that you thought this was England

7.must never pick up random things and eat/ drink them to see if you will
live or die

8. never convince an already suicidal person, that they are in fact
worthless and they should go hang themselve, even if you are sick of their
bitching and would shoot them yourself

9.Don't throw rocks at people who keeping saying "I want to get stoned."

[beachguy in thongs]

10. Never fuck the mother hen.
- PurpleChickenz

[phareye]

I'm sorry, phar-I, I'd have to defiantly recluse your first statement, whatever that means. You just called me a racist. :confused:

true, i called everyone a racist.
that was more for theatrics. i did mean what i said about us all having prejudices.
think about it in an early-man survival situation: you're on the plains, doing whatever early man did on the plains. you see a figure appear on the horizon. you have to make a quick determination.
do you scoot back to the village and raise the alarm?
do you approach to engage in trade or what have you?
do you hide and watch what this stranger does?
these decisions would have to be made based on what we see, what we know from past experience, and what we've been taught.
we make an initial snap judgement.
we may be proved wrong later, but we pretty much have it wired in to us to make quick decisions with what info is available.
unfortunately, i think we still do this, even tho' we know better and may reevaluate almost as quickly.

didn't mean to be a dick.

[beachguy in thongs]

That's okay, and for your scenario on the hill, it would be a shame to hide from him, for he's only The Fool On The Hill.

[Mojavpa]

why do black people have a black on black crime unit? but white people don't

why can balck rappers say on songs "crackers" "white motherfucker" and other racist stuff but its ok and they sell thousands of albums.

why on lethal weapon 4 does the black policeman say "please let the baby be black"

im not promoting/racism or whatever u may want to throw at me just voicing what i see/hear...

i honestly dont mean to offend no1

Sorry, I dont sympathize. While its true that many black people make fun of whites, and that it isnt very nice, is that really racism? To me, racism means believeing in the superiority of your race over others. The reason its not ok for white people to make fun of other races is because white people are the ones who are in power, and the effect of their stereotyping and prejudice has a far greater impact on politics and the position of black people in the US than anything a black person would say.

On top of that, we should also compare the kinds of comments each group, white and blacks. Whites make comments about blacks that are far more serious in nature, like blacks are "lazy, dirty, stupid", etc. From my experience, blacks tend to make the comments more in "jest", criticizing habits or how white people do things. Which is worse? And When do the black people your referring to say black people are superior to white people? Of course they wouldnt say that, because white people have been keeping them from gaining any power for centuries.

Another thing, when you hear black people making "racist" comments, they're done overtly. People know that its racist. However, when the white controlled media paints black people in a bad light, or any cultural group in the world for that matter (Notice their bias in covering international events), its meant to be taken seriously. Thats a far more insidious kind of racism, wouldnt you agree?

[ladyM]

how did this get switched around to racism from free speech? Its all very interesting to see your opinions. Keep up the posts!

[beachguy in thongs]

My free speech would cost money.

[robert42]

how did this get switched around to racism from free speech? Its all very interesting to see your opinions. Keep up the posts!

i turned this in to a race fest....

with my

"want me to push free speech to the limit" post. :cool:

[colton]

Sorry, I dont sympathize. While its true that many black people make fun of whites, and that it isnt very nice, is that really racism? To me, racism means believeing in the superiority of your race over others. The reason its not ok for white people to make fun of other races is because white people are the ones who are in power, and the effect of their stereotyping and prejudice has a far greater impact on politics and the position of black people in the US than anything a black person would say.

On top of that, we should also compare the kinds of comments each group, white and blacks. Whites make comments about blacks that are far more serious in nature, like blacks are "lazy, dirty, stupid", etc. From my experience, blacks tend to make the comments more in "jest", criticizing habits or how white people do things. Which is worse? And When do the black people your referring to say black people are superior to white people? Of course they wouldnt say that, because white people have been keeping them from gaining any power for centuries.

Another thing, when you hear black people making "racist" comments, they're done overtly. People know that its racist. However, when the white controlled media paints black people in a bad light, or any cultural group in the world for that matter (Notice their bias in covering international events), its meant to be taken seriously. Thats a far more insidious kind of racism, wouldnt you agree?

No, although things maybe different in the U.S.A . I say Racism is Racism is Racism!!! whoever does it!!

[beachguy in thongs]

i turned this in to a piss fest....

with my

"want me to push free pee to the limit" post. :cool:

Without getting caught in the crossfire, I'll share my viewpoint on racism.

Racism is a classification system. When you classify someone as "black", remember that they have ancestors that grew up closer to the equator than you. I don't know how God split up intelligence geographically, but that's a pretty disturbing measure to downgrade someone. All Eskimos are nothing better than a white...frozen thing if they stay outside too long.

[Reefer Rogue]

'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.'
Voltaire (1694-1778) :cool:

[beachguy in thongs]

Your signature would be racist under my definition REEFSTER ROGUESTER.

cheap Mexican schwag

[likemclever]

No, although things maybe different in the U.S.A . I say Racism is Racism is Racism!!! whoever does it!!

AGREED.



And no things are not different in the U.S.

Racism is Racism.....regardless of who does it.


And all that crap about how when people do it against white people it's OK because "They were only joking"....well it's just that crap.

I say if you can't take my little "jokes" than I don't have to take yours.

if your pissed off because your poor than go get an education and a job just like I have to do.....God know there is enough financial aid for you out there (as long as your not white).....

And white people don't think they are superior.....I don't know any white people that go around thinking ....whipiee I white and I'm better than you....fucking whatever.

people were all pissed off at the news media during Katrina because they thought they portrayed the black people of New Orleans in a bad light........No.....the fact that they were filmed looting non essential items during a time of tragedy put them in a bad light........regardless of what fucking color they were.

[ladyM]

AGREED.



And no things are not different in the U.S.

Racism is Racism.....regardless of who does it.


And all that crap about how when people do it against white people it's OK because "They were only joking"....well it's just that crap.

I say if you can't take my little "jokes" than I don't have to take yours.

if your pissed off because your poor than go get an education and a job just like I have to do.....God know there is enough financial aid for you out there (as long as your not white).....

And white people don't think they are superior.....I don't know any white people that go around thinking ....whipiee I white and I'm better than you....fucking whatever.

people were all pissed off at the news media during Katrina because they thought they portrayed the black people of New Orleans in a bad light........No.....the fact that they were filmed looting non essential items during a time of tragedy put them in a bad light........regardless of what fucking color they were.


I have to agree with that!

I believe freedom of choice would have been a better title for this thread. But then that could be another thread altogether.
Keep posting!

[Ousted]

AGREED.



And no things are not different in the U.S.

Racism is Racism.....regardless of who does it.

I agree with that point to a certain degree. I remember I heard some black lady say a comment that white people's hair smelled like a wet dog when it got wet. I was really offended by that comment. And that comment was made, I believe, as a way to make her or her race superior in some way over white people.
That's racism, and yes, its uncalled for, because its derogotory.



And all that crap about how when people do it against white people it's OK because "They were only joking"....well it's just that crap.

Comments like "cracker" and "the man" or comments similiar offend me in that it attacks my individual integrity, but the reality is, making comments like that on the whole about white people is often said referring to the specific race that has been painting their people as inferior. While I also find those sort of comments uncalled for, I understand them, unlike the one I gave as an example above.


I say if you can't take my little "jokes" than I don't have to take yours.

What are your little jokes?


if your pissed off because your poor than go get an education and a job just like I have to do.....God know there is enough financial aid for you out there (as long as your not white).....

There are so many hard-working minorities who take advantage of any and all opportunities they can grasp in this country. Why not celebrate those who do, instead of rip apart those who dont? We certainly aren't focussed on those who dont as far as whites are concerned. I blame the media.


And white people don't think they are superior.....I don't know any white people that go around thinking ....whipiee I white and I'm better than you....fucking whatever.

Are you sure about that? Really?
Would you or any white people you know trade shoes with a black person of equal education? If not, why not? Other than reasons like "I like me for me".
We know the deck is stacked in our favor in this country. We may not like to admit it, but its the reality.



people were all pissed off at the news media during Katrina because they thought they portrayed the black people of New Orleans in a bad light........No.....the fact that they were filmed looting non essential items during a time of tragedy put them in a bad light........regardless of what fucking color they were.

So, the people affected by hurricane Katrina were what? 90% black? And the focus on some blacks looting probably means that the case has been made against black people? If a mostly white city had a disaster similar and the people affected were 90% white, and we saw some whites looting, how do you think the media and the people would portray that? Would they make it an issue of race, or something individual?

The truth is racism and making minorities out to be as scary as possible does great for news ratings, even in subtleties. We should all totally and completely understand minorities frustration over how their races are portrayed in the media for the whites.(which in turn helps shape the viewers ideas of portrayed race, which then makes it more difficult for them when having to interact with those whites in the real world - who probably do have the power)
I dont watch the news anymore because its become about the ratings and manipulating the minds and emotions of the people to keep them wanting more. Its not honest nor frank journalism. Its flash. Its glitz. Its bullshit. I'd be pissed too if I were a minority. The promos for the news always get me in stitches though. :D

So anyway, whatever racism in turn they can dish out against whites, Im pretty sure white people can handle it, because it wont affect us even close to the degree racism affects non-whites. Thats the difference. So in close racism isnt racism, its not a black and white issue like that just yet.

[likemclever]

I could care less if someone calls me a â??crackerâ?� or â??the man.â?� I even kind of find those words funny when there used intelligentlyâ?¦..thatâ??s because I have a sense of humor.

I think people need to relax a little bit when it comes to race. Iâ??m sick of the â??Iâ??m such a victim shit.â?� Being a victim never helped anyone.

And if I have to listen to the cracker jokes (whoever told the cracker joke, lets say itâ??s a Mexican) than you have to listen to my Mexican jokesâ?¦â?¦â?¦fucken lighten up people tasteless jokes will be alive foreverâ?¦â?¦



There are so many hard-working minorities who take advantage of any and all opportunities they can grasp in this country. Why not celebrate those who do, instead of rip apart those who dont? We certainly aren't focussed on those who dont as far as whites are concerned. I blame the media.




Why not help American citizens EQUALY instead of picking out the colors you like���



Are you sure about that? Really?
Would you or any white people you know trade shoes with a black person of equal education? If not, why not? Other than reasons like "I like me for me".
We know the deck is stacked in our favor in this country. We may not like to admit it, but its the reality.


You bet your sweet ass I would���REALLY.

I would definitely trade places. Do you have any idea how much cheaper I could go to school? Do you realize that an illegal immigrant in this country can get better financial aid assistance in this country than I canâ?¦..you wanna talk about racism.

OK well than the job marketâ?¦

I will have a harder time getting a job than someone who is a minority��THAT is my reality.






Iâ??m still waiting for all of those white bread perks that Iâ??ve heard soooooo much about.





So, the people affected by hurricane Katrina were what? 90% black? And the focus on some blacks looting probably means that the case has been made against black people? If a mostly white city had a disaster similar and the people affected were 90% white, and we saw some whites looting, how do you think the media and the people would portray that? Would they make it an issue of race, or something individual?


Yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying too....

I'm saying the media was criticized for portraying these poor black people in a bad light.....

....their skin color didn't affect the coverage.........The media didn't make black people out to be "mean/bad".........these particular black people WERE "mean/bad." ......not because they were black.....but because they were bad.




So anyway, whatever racism in turn they can dish out against whites, Im pretty sure white people can handle it, because it wont affect us even close to the degree racism affects non-whites. Thatâ??s the difference. So in close racism isnâ??t racism, its not a black and white issue like that just yet.


I totally disagree with you here.....


I have never owned a slave or any other human being for that matter. Neither did my ancestors.....thatâ??s probably because THEY WERE POOR WHITE PEOPLE. So for someone to say to me that I some how "deserve" or should simply "tolerate" people treating me inappropriately because they have a big black (or any other color) chip on their shoulder......sorry not going to happen. I do not feel the need let people trample on me because I feel sorry for some shit that I had no control over.......racism doesn't somehow affect me less because I'm white.........racism is racism.

[ladyM]

I could care less if someone calls me a â??crackerâ?� or â??the man.â?� I even kind of find those words funny when there used intelligentlyâ?¦..thatâ??s because I have a sense of humor.

I think people need to relax a little bit when it comes to race. Iâ??m sick of the â??Iâ??m such a victim shit.â?� Being a victim never helped anyone.

And if I have to listen to the cracker jokes (whoever told the cracker joke, lets say itâ??s a Mexican) than you have to listen to my Mexican jokesâ?¦â?¦â?¦fucken lighten up people tasteless jokes will be alive foreverâ?¦â?¦




Why not help American citizens EQUALY instead of picking out the colors you like���



You bet your sweet ass I would���REALLY.

I would definitely trade places. Do you have any idea how much cheaper I could go to school? Do you realize that an illegal immigrant in this country can get better financial aid assistance in this country than I canâ?¦..you wanna talk about racism.

OK well than the job marketâ?¦

I will have a harder time getting a job than someone who is a minority��THAT is my reality.






Iâ??m still waiting for all of those white bread perks that Iâ??ve heard soooooo much about.





Yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying too....

I'm saying the media was criticized for portraying these poor black people in a bad light.....

....their skin color didn't affect the coverage.........The media didn't make black people out to be "mean/bad".........these particular black people WERE "mean/bad." ......not because they were black.....but because they were bad.





I totally disagree with you here.....


I have never owned a slave or any other human being for that matter. Neither did my ancestors.....thatâ??s probably because THEY WERE POOR WHITE PEOPLE. So for someone to say to me that I some how "deserve" or should simply "tolerate" people treating me inappropriately because they have a big black (or any other color) chip on their shoulder......sorry not going to happen. I do not feel the need let people trample on me because I feel sorry for some shit that I had no control over.......racism doesn't somehow affect me less because I'm white.........racism is racism.


Good post!

[Ousted]

I could care less if someone calls me a â??crackerâ?� or â??the man.â?� I even kind of find those words funny when there used intelligentlyâ?¦..thatâ??s because I have a sense of humor.

Or because you're white, and being white doesn't offend you even if it offends others. And you know it doesnt really offend others because being white, for the most part, is non offensive to the majority. That could be why you find "cracker" so hilarious.


I think people need to relax a little bit when it comes to race. Iâ??m sick of the â??Iâ??m such a victim shit.â?� Being a victim never helped anyone.

I agree. But there is racism, pretending it doesn't exist or that people arent racist or that people aren't commonly practicing racism in the workplace or communities is foolish, and that definitely doesn't help anyone.


And if I have to listen to the cracker jokes (whoever told the cracker joke, lets say itâ??s a Mexican) than you have to listen to my Mexican jokesâ?¦â?¦â?¦fucken lighten up people tasteless jokes will be alive foreverâ?¦â?¦

See first point.

And Im not a prude, I believe there can be friendly banter about race, sure. But if someone is offended by a racist comment, it might not be because it was said in jest or as bantering like you are seemingly classifying racist comments to be in your points.


Why not help American citizens EQUALY instead of picking out the colors you like���

Because some need more help than others. And there's help for everyone out there, of all situations, of all colors, they just have to be willing and motivated to look for it. This country is awesome in that regard.


You bet your sweet ass I would���REALLY.

I would definitely trade places. Do you have any idea how much cheaper I could go to school? Do you realize that an illegal immigrant in this country can get better financial aid assistance in this country than I canâ?¦..you wanna talk about racism.

Finacial aid for minorities is often funded by minorities.


OK well than the job marketâ?¦

I will have a harder time getting a job than someone who is a minority��THAT is my reality.

I dont believe you that you would switch places given your hostility towards programs that help minorities, cuz it sounds to me like you completely dont understand them or their troubles, AT ALL. But at least you have a strong opinion nonetheless!
Its not like a minority will be picked for a job over you if you're more qualified, affirmative action just gives insurance that if 2 applicants apply for a job and are of equal education, that the white one isn't the one who will always automatically get it...because that IS how it is. People are mostly white in the workplace, they relate better to white people than minorities, there won't be unwanted racial tension if we hire whitey over darkie...these are common thoughts of the employer, and these thoughts are wrong and unjust to minorities who have every right to every advantage in this country we have.


Iâ??m still waiting for all of those white bread perks that Iâ??ve heard soooooo much about.

Do people look at you and make assumptions about your character, your work ethic, your education, or your background to the point that you have to prove yourself to people that you're not the stereotype your skin color respresents?

No?


Then shut up.


I have never owned a slave or any other human being for that matter. Neither did my ancestors.....thatâ??s probably because THEY WERE POOR WHITE PEOPLE. So for someone to say to me that I some how "deserve" or should simply "tolerate" people treating me inappropriately because they have a big black (or any other color) chip on their shoulder......sorry not going to happen. I do not feel the need let people trample on me because I feel sorry for some shit that I had no control over.......racism doesn't somehow affect me less because I'm white.........racism is racism.

No you absolutely should not let anyone trample on you. Is that how you see being compassionate and understanding of the realities of racism in this country?

Take your big "fuck you" that you're giving to non offensive racist attacks on whitey, your "fuck you" to the few financial breaks minorities get in this country and kindly get over yourself.

[likemclever]

LOL.....I don't have time right now to properly respond.........LOL.....but wow.....

[Ousted]

LOL.....I don't have time right now to properly respond.........LOL.....but wow.....

LOL...I look forward to it. :D

[rajking86]

Torog, get the fuck outta here with the republican whitebread bullshit. You'll get barely any suuport with that around here.

I can't believe you fuckin' toke and you believe in the us government so much.

fuck outta here.


End.

[likemclever]

Oh, believe me sister I understand their troubles. And yes I am hostile towards social welfare programs. Instead of just shoveling money into them like a hugs money furnaces we should use that money towards preventionâ?¦.. A bird of prevention in the hand is worth two birds of treatment in the bushâ?¦.I think social welfare programs are a necessary evilâ?¦.buy the way I am currently a recipient of social welfare programs. I think those who need help should receive it in a dignified manner. I think that if you receive social welfare than you should be REQUIRED to receive financial counseling, education counseling, or whatever your problem is counseling. I understand that some people will always require these services because they are disabled or other medical/age issue and I donâ??t have a problem with that. They are my fellow Americans and I would be happy to assist them. After all social welfare programs are just government operated charities that use taxpayer money.â?¦.and charity is a powerful and capable force when handled properly. As it is right now we just throw money at poor people and hope they go away.


I think minorities should have every right that I have â?¦..but they should not have moreâ?¦.affirmative action is just wrongâ?¦.not only is it wrong itâ??s insulting. It calls into question that persons actual abilities. It says â??you canâ??t make it unless we help you.â?� Business and corporations are just not the race mongers you make them out to beâ?¦.In American business itâ??s ALL about the money. They could give two craps what color you are. â?¦..And if a company finds an educated minorityâ?¦.then they the company thinks double wippie for themâ?¦.are you kidding they would be falling out of their politically correct shoes.

I think people should be given equal opportunity. And I think if you work hard and bust your ass than it shouldnâ??t matter what color your skin is.



Do people look at you and make assumptions about your character, your work ethic, your education, or your background to the point that you have to prove yourself to people that you're not the stereotype your skin color respresents?

No?


Then shut up.



Absolutely they do. But not because of the color of my skinâ?¦..Everyone has to prove themselves no matter what color their skin is. Iâ??ve had to prove myself to every employer Iâ??ve ever hadâ?¦â?¦ every single one. And I think rightly so. If hire someone to work for me than their going to have to prove themselves to meâ?¦.thatâ??s just how life works.

And No I will not shut up��lol�.

[Ousted]

I didnt know this was replied to, sorry I didnt see it 'til now.


Oh, believe me sister I understand their troubles. And yes I am hostile towards social welfare programs. Instead of just shoveling money into them like a hugs money furnaces we should use that money towards preventionâ?¦.. A bird of prevention in the hand is worth two birds of treatment in the bushâ?¦.I think social welfare programs are a necessary evilâ?¦.buy the way I am currently a recipient of social welfare programs. I think those who need help should receive it in a dignified manner. I think that if you receive social welfare than you should be REQUIRED to receive financial counseling, education counseling, or whatever your problem is counseling. I understand that some people will always require these services because they are disabled or other medical/age issue and I donâ??t have a problem with that. They are my fellow Americans and I would be happy to assist them. After all social welfare programs are just government operated charities that use taxpayer money.â?¦.and charity is a powerful and capable force when handled properly. As it is right now we just throw money at poor people and hope they go away.

It's very difficult to continue this debate with you when you seem uneducated on the points of your own argument. Half of what you said isn't true or is dreamy, and the other half doesn't even make financial sense for the taxpayers.

I dont even know where to begin with this because it seems illogical for me to educate my opponant on his/her own argument so you make some lick of sense, and then I'm to try to attempt to debate you with it once you then understands what the hell it is you're is fighting so hard for? Too much work for me.
Talk to me again when you make some sense and its clear that you have some understanding of what it is your talking about.



I think minorities should have every right that I have â?¦..but they should not have moreâ?¦.affirmative action is just wrongâ?¦.not only is it wrong itâ??s insulting. It calls into question that persons actual abilities. It says â??you canâ??t make it unless we help you.â?� Business and corporations are just not the race mongers you make them out to beâ?¦.In American business itâ??s ALL about the money. They could give two craps what color you are. â?¦..And if a company finds an educated minorityâ?¦.then they the company thinks double wippie for themâ?¦.are you kidding they would be falling out of their politically correct shoes.

I think people should be given equal opportunity. And I think if you work hard and bust your ass than it shouldnâ??t matter what color your skin is.

If only you understood what the hell you were talking about this would be such an interesting discussion/debate.




Absolutely they do. But not because of the color of my skinâ?¦..Everyone has to prove themselves no matter what color their skin is. Iâ??ve had to prove myself to every employer Iâ??ve ever hadâ?¦â?¦ every single one. And I think rightly so. If hire someone to work for me than their going to have to prove themselves to meâ?¦.thatâ??s just how life works.

And No I will not shut up��lol�.

You completely missed the point. Yes, everyone does have to prove themselves, and everyone should be required to. Most people start with a blank slate and work from there.
Minorities often dont get the luxury of a blank slate though. You do recognize that, dont you? People often have preconcieved notions about them, their abilities, their intelligence, their class, etc etc. We can thank the media for that, for the most part.

If that doesnt make sense to you then I really dont know what else to tell you.

In theory what you say makes sense, but in reality this is not a black and white issue, its still grey and still needs to be treated as grey until people get mature and stop being prejudiced against others for something as rediculous as skin color.

[likemclever]

You spent all your time telling me how stupid an uneducated I am and how deeply you were struggling to comprehend me......and then at the end you tell me "In theory what you say makes sense."

Don't waste my fucking time with your insults.......unless you have a point to make.

[dirtyhippy420]

hippy=prejudice against bankers


I hate fucking bankers!

[dirtyhippy420]

Sure, when black people make fun of white people it's racism...
racâ?¢ism n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

but who the fuck cares? You know what? whoever is reading this- FUCK YOU! There, do you feel hurt? Do you need someone to comfort you? Jesus fucking Christ, grow some fucking skin you cocksuckers! People are different! Racism will never end! Learn to live with it! You're NOT special! Get over yourselves!

[Torog]

Torog, get the f*ck outta here with the republican whitebread bullshit. You'll get barely any suuport with that around here.

I can't believe you f*ckin' toke and you believe in the us government so much.

f*ck outta here.


End.
Howdy rajking,

I tell you what I believe in..I believe in We the People and a Constitutional Republic..I don't believe in countless,unacountable beaurocrats that operate outside the law and screw the rest of us with their little power trips.

Just because I toke,I don't have to lower myself down to yer level..I want America to be a decent place to live and raise children..not to turn it into one big, red light district..which is what the Left wants us to do.

Why don't ya cool yer jets..here,have some cookies and milk..on me....

Hav a good one ...

[dirtyhippy420]

You have to watch out for those leftist commie pinko queers. Who the hell are the to push their moral superiority? Don't they know it's subjective? Not like the blind faith, always right, my way or the highway, no middle ground, Jesus loves me more than you (he told me so) conservatives! If only they would conform, life would be so much better. I wouldn't have to watch my kids or take an interest in what they're doing, the government will take care of it. You know what would be better? if there was somewhere where we could send our kids so someone else could raise them! It sure would beat the effort I put in not taking them to the (so far) non existent live sex shows in Oregon! Just look what it did to the Netherlands! I would bet money that no one on this board would ever want to go there!

[Ousted]

You spent all your time telling me how stupid an uneducated I am and how deeply you were struggling to comprehend me......and then at the end you tell me "In theory what you say makes sense."

Don't waste my fucking time with your insults.......unless you have a point to make.

In theory what you say does make sense. But nobody in their right mind would argue your points as if they were well researched arguments with any validity. Your points sound like the points someone would make who doesn't have any idea about the intricacies of this issue. Like you have a general idea of what we are talking about, but are pretending you have complete and total understanding of what you're talking about, when its clear as day that you dont.

Dont waste my time pretending you understand what you're talking about when you clearly form your strong opinions on half truths and assumptions.

It is not my responsibility to educate my opponant on the strengths and weaknesses of his argument. You should know that before even opening your mouth and wasting anyone else's time pretending you have a clue.

Again, I would be happy to continue this discussion if you take the time to make some good arguments. And I know what they are and I know they are out there readily available to you. Its just too bad you are unaware of them and are still as passionate as you are.

[ilyas]

i agree that there definitely is racism , and one of the reasons is that we get fucking millions of immigrants from all over the place , and its starting to swamp some areas out.
the second largest turkish city in the world is in germany, and 50% of turkey said it would move to the mainland when they join the eu, thats another 30 MILLION immigrants right there!
and theres north africa where basically people from all over africa try to rush into spain and its territories like cueta and mellila all the time, 500 people trying to climb razor wire fences at a time. they catch thousands and thousands every year.
60,000 eastern europeans flooded ireland in one year alone.

basically im not racist in any way, but a lot of people see it as an invasion , as its happening so fast

i don't care if you're a racist or not. but you surely try to see the truth you choose. being a member of eu won't bring "free passage for workforce" to turkey. and you're talking about a minimum 12-15 years to come. telling the stories based on your false predictions is not less then lying. i'm not talking about the "30 million immigrants" bullshit. you actually have to protect yourself from "zee germans" :D

in the time that turkish people went to germany, it wasn't a fugitive action. because of the fast industrialization, germany needed workers. so they called for turkish citizens, to work for them.

sorry about the fact these people came from villages and suburbs (it's completely normal, hence the name "industrial worker"). but germany made a decision to have more workers. and germany welcomed them. and they worked for germany. and maybe they saved their money, and maybe now they have some power, and maybe not.

invasion is something you won't welcome. and if there's a fault, it's Germany's..

PS: "the second largest turkish city in the world is in germany" WTF does that mean :D

whatever he/she's wrong again..

[likemclever]

In theory what you say does make sense. But nobody in their right mind would argue your points as if they were well researched arguments with any validity. Your points sound like the points someone would make who doesn't have any idea about the intricacies of this issue. Like you have a general idea of what we are talking about, but are pretending you have complete and total understanding of what you're talking about, when its clear as day that you dont.

Dont waste my time pretending you understand what you're talking about when you clearly form your strong opinions on half truths and assumptions.

It is not my responsibility to educate my opponant on the strengths and weaknesses of his argument. You should know that before even opening your mouth and wasting anyone else's time pretending you have a clue.

Again, I would be happy to continue this discussion if you take the time to make some good arguments. And I know what they are and I know they are out there readily available to you. Its just too bad you are unaware of them and are still as passionate as you are.



Since when did we become fucking opponents........

I thought that I was giving my opinion on social welfare....you must be a very sad, angry person if you make "opponents" out of everyone who has a differing opinion.



I'm done with you until you unlodge whatever it is thatâ??s rammed in your ass.


Don't tell me how much I don't understand.....Are you on social welfare? Have you ever been?

it's despicable, it's a joke....they do nothing to help you get OFF welfare.....can you understand THAT or do I need to put it a different way for you.

[Ousted]

Since when did we become fucking opponents........

You and I are not opponants as far as you and I as people go. We were having a debate/discussion, you hold one set of discernment on an issue, I hold another. And we were discussing it, and challenging eachother on each's viewpoint. For the sake of debate we are opponants. Dont take it so personally, Im certainly not.


I thought that I was giving my opinion on social welfare....you must be a very sad, angry person if you make "opponents" out of everyone who has a differing opinion.

Again, dont take the term personally. I didn't use it to as a means to create a personal division between us as people, so please understand my intent with the term before taking the term to heart. I apologize if my wording confused you, and I see how it could have, but I promise my intent was not at all on any sort of personal level.

And our discussion progressed to welfare, which has nothing to do with race, frankly, considering a very small percentage of blacks are on welfare in relation to percentage of whites. We were discussing race and racism, that was the issue at hand. You were speaking as if your opinion was fact, and it was not. You have a right to your opinion, but I also have a right to object to your opinion if you voice it, especially if voiced as fact in an effort to disprove my points. I couldn't take what you said seriously about race and racism because...well...what you voice are half-truths and assumptions, like I said previously, and I will object to that, and you should expect nothing less from anybody. I wouldnt expect less from you, because I know you're highly intelligent and probably have a good nose for bullshit.


I'm done with you until you unlodge whatever it is thatâ??s rammed in your ass.

I request facts. I request knowledge. I request understanding of the issue other than from personal experience and opinions formed on assumptions.

If asking my "opponant" to offer those few things in the course of a discussion/debate so we can get somewhere with it is translated into me having something lodged up my ass, then I guess the discussion is gonna hafta end here because obviously this exchange is being taken way too personally, and there's no need for it.

Anyway, it was nice talking with you, and I'll see you in the friendlier topics. :)