Cooking with vaporized herb?

[Shai Hulud]

I know vaporization rarely releases all the THC in the weed because to do so one would need to grind the weed up into ridiculously small bits to maximize surface area.

So...I've been saving this used weed and was thinking maybe I could make some brownies with it or something. I'm sure it's not very strong, but I have so much I think it might work (probably about 10g). What do you think?

[420purplehaze420]

try and make oil out of that shit or toss it

[Shai Hulud]

Yeah, that was a bad idea. I went ahead and made some brownies with it, and my friend convined me to use bongwater instead of regular water in the brownies. I made four huge brownies and ate one. It tasted fucking horrible. I had to choke it down over about half an hour.

So as I was waiting for it to kick in, I decided to smoke some. So I was already high when the brownie kicked in. That was the first time I actually lost consciousness from having so much weed. I passed out around 10 PM (ate the brownie around 7). My girlfriend woke me up at 4 AM to get me to come to bed. I was still stoned out of my mind at that point. Even when I woke up the next morning it hadn't worn off completely.

Anyway, the point is, it worked, but it wasn't a very pleasant experience.

[420purplehaze420]

now what the fuck made you believe that bong water would be beneficial to your experience?

[TheAtomicPunk]

Wow, well if i do it, i'll mix a lil bong water in it, but not to much. maybe mix some crown royal in it to :p

[Shai Hulud]

now what the fuck made you believe that bong water would be beneficial to your experience?
It has a lot of THC in it, actually, and a friend of mine straight-up drank some about a week ago. I've never seen him so blazed. Anyway, I was hoping I could get that effect without the nasty taste, and I probably could have. I think the nasty taste was mostly due to the large amount of vaporized weed in there.

Anyway, I wouldn't do it again, but I don't particularly regret the experience.

[Oli]

Bong water has no THC. You could make 'em taste a lot better if you make cannabutter instead of just bunging the weed in there. Search the forum and I'm sure you'll find a decent recipe.

[TheAtomicPunk]

yea, the bongwater is all the nasty shit that is taken out of your weed when you smoke out of a water bong.

[Shai Hulud]

Bong water does in fact have THC. Studies have shown that bong water actually filters out more THC than it does toxins. Bongs aren't very efficient ways of smoking at all, but they're fun.

[chisme]

cmon bruv any thing you put bong water in to is gonna taste like bong water -fucking minging use your noodle .....plus slap your mate for fucking up your brownies lol

[Oli]

Bong water does in fact have THC. Studies have shown that bong water actually filters out more THC than it does toxins. Bongs aren't very efficient ways of smoking at all, but they're fun.

Links?

[1234abcd]

LOL...drinkin bong water and getting ripped..what ever...you kids are fucking disgusting. I clean my bong water out after every rip of my kush :)...I like crystal clear water in there so I get a nice clean taste ..and vaporized herb smells so fucking bad..I toss that shit immediatly after use....so I can't even imagine what bong water and vaporized herb mixed in to taste like....oh well..you will grow up soon...it will be ok...haha

[1234abcd]

You also pick brilliant friends to hang out with :)

[Shai Hulud]

There are a lot of misconceptions in the stoner world and most smokers in fact don't know shit except the rumors they hear from their stoner friends who also don't know shit. One of these rumors is that using bongs is healthier because it filters out the tars. It does filter out some tars, but it filters out MORE THC, meaning you have to smoke more to get the same amount of high, which translates to higher tar intake than even an unfiltered joint.

The California NORML/MAPS Smoking Device Study (http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/smokestudy.html)

Here's a quote:
The least bad waterpipe, the bong, produced 30% more tar per cannabinoids than the unfiltered joint....This suggests that water filtration is actually counterproductive, apparently because water tends to absorb THC more readily than other, noxious tars.

Bong water that has been unchanged for weeks will have A LOT of THC.

[Shai Hulud]

LOL...drinkin bong water and getting ripped..what ever...you kids are fucking disgusting. I clean my bong water out after every rip of my kush :)...I like crystal clear water in there so I get a nice clean taste ..and vaporized herb smells so fucking bad..I toss that shit immediatly after use....so I can't even imagine what bong water and vaporized herb mixed in to taste like....oh well..you will grow up soon...it will be ok...haha
You have no basis whatsoever to assume anything about the intelligence of me and my friends. In fact, my friend who drank the bong water was valedictorian of a 300+ class in high school and made a perfect score on the SAT. I also made a perfect score and was salutatorian in a 400+ class at my high school.

But guess what? I'm in college now, which is traditionally the time for drug experimentation. And you're right, I probably will "grow up soon" and lessen/stop my illicit drug use, whereas you, the wise old fart that you purport to be, will forever be where I was in my formative years, posting advice about drug usage to high school and college kids on cannabis messageboards to make you feel superior.

[sugarmagnolia]

^ dude I'm only 16 and I'm not retarded enough to drink bong water.

and no, THC is not water soluble. so how the fuck is it supposed to dissolve in water? wait lets see..... it doesn't. U and ur friend are all little bitches to what we call placebo in the educated community. U probably should not have smoked before you did ur little experiment with eating horrible tasting brownies.

and don't even try to tell me that the bong is less efficient than the unfiltered joint.

[Shai Hulud]

^ dude I'm only 16 and I'm not retarded enough to drink bong water.

and no, THC is not water soluble. so how the fuck is it supposed to dissolve in water? wait lets see..... it doesn't. U and ur friend are all little bitches to what we call placebo in the educated community. U probably should not have smoked before you did ur little experiment with eating horrible tasting brownies.

and don't even try to tell me that the bong is less efficient than the unfiltered joint.
Look here, you stupid little fuck. Do you honestly think your arbitrary opinion carries more weight than legitimate, scientific studies? Read the study I linked, dumbass, before you go making an idiot out of yourself with your close-minded, self-congratulatory bullshit.

Surprisingly, the unfiltered joint outperformed all devices except the vaporizers...
-The California NORML/MAPS Smoking Device Study (http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/smokestudy.html)

Hey, guess what? You're wrong. Unfiltered joints have higher THC concentration than bongs.

What the hell makes you an authority? "Oh look at me, I'm sixteen years old, and one of my stoner friends told me there's no THC in bong water!"

You clearly are not part of any "educated community." You don't even spell properly or punctuate. You're just a nerdy little wanker with nothing better to do than jerk off while insulting people twice your intelligence on a messageboard you check every day after you get out of remedial algebra.

[Oli]

The California NORML/MAPS Smoking Device Study (http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/smokestudy.html)

Here's a quote:
The least bad waterpipe, the bong, produced 30% more tar per cannabinoids than the unfiltered joint....This suggests that water filtration is actually counterproductive, apparently because water tends to absorb THC more readily than other, noxious tars.

Touche. Thanks for the link... I still wouldn't touch the water though.

[kman]

anger issues? lol

[lateralus]

You clearly are not part of any "educated community." You don't even spell properly or punctuate. You're just a nerdy little wanker with nothing better to do than jerk off while insulting people twice your intelligence on a messageboard you check every day after you get out of remedial algebra.HAHAHAH!!!

Shai Hulud is clearly not an idiot. I've also heard a lot of talk about whether the bong does more harm than good, with people using the very same arguments. Regardless, I'll never give up my beloved bong rips; nothing compares to a hit with some crushed ice in the chamber.

[Shai Hulud]

I see my detractors have been having second thoughts as to the veracity of their limitless knowledge. Cowards.

[Blaze420]

I see my detractors have been having second thoughts as to the veracity of their limitless knowledge. Cowards.



..... say whaaaaaaaaat

[Shai Hulud]

..... say whaaaaaaaaat
yo dude them peeps that be dissin me dont come back now they seen how dum they is.

Stay in school, kid.

[sMOkeY bOB]

shai halud u have anger issues, who gives two shits whos fuckin right or not if those clowns say u cant get fucked up on bong water them goody yay, im not saying u can havent tried bong water last time i heard it tasted like ass so why, and yes ive heard bongs arent good for you, but nothing gets u more shit faced then a good bong,

people chill the fuck out we are all children of the green
peace smokey bob

[Shai Hulud]

I don't have anger issues. Do you think I'm seriously getting worked up over a few random morons impugning my intelligence on some messageboard?

I will defend myself, however, and if I enjoy myself a little more than necessary when doing so, I don't consider it a fault.

[420purplehaze420]

you fucked those brownies right up and bongs cant be as shitty as you say cause one rip of a bong gets me higher then one off a joint/pipe/one hitter/dugout so im going to continue to use my glass

[Shai Hulud]

you fucked those brownies right up and bongs cant be as shitty as you say cause one rip of a bong gets me higher then one off a joint/pipe/one hitter/dugout so im going to continue to use my glass
Bongs are simply inefficient as far as THC delivery goes. The whole point of the bong is to cool the smoke to enable you to take huge hits. So if a bong's smoke has, say, 50% less THC than a joint's smoke, but your bong hit is 4 times as large as a joint hit, then obviously the bong hit is going to make you higher than the joint hit by a factor of 2. That's not the point. I was simply talking about THC extraction per unit of weed, and the bong simply does not deliver as potent smoke as some other methods, such as pipes and joints.

And for the record, I like bongs.

[1234abcd]

Shai Hulud - OK, I'll reply so you can talk all your intellectual english thinking your the shit.......drink your bong water that you haven't changed for weeks and eat brownies with vaporized herb that has been spend...whatever the fuck floats your boat..and Im stupid as fuck, graduating HS with a 2.8 GPA...so shove your salutatorian up your ass cuz it dont mean shit to anyone here at cannabis.com

[Shai Hulud]

Shai Hulud - OK, I'll reply so you can talk all your intellectual english thinking your the shit.......drink your bong water that you haven't changed for weeks and eat brownies with vaporized herb that has been spend...whatever the fuck floats your boat..and Im stupid as fuck, graduating HS with a 2.8 GPA...so shove your salutatorian up your ass cuz it dont mean shit to anyone here at cannabis.com
Maybe if you wouldn't go around insulting people smarter than you (i.e., me), you wouldn't have to deal with the repercussions (me defending myself). Wow, imagine that. You call into question the intelligence of me and my friends, and I give you proof your accusations are baseless, and all you can do about it is whine about the superiority of your time-tested bong methods, which you've been using since you entered your minimum wage job seventeen years ago. I don't give a fuck if you don't know how to speak/write in the native tongue. It's your loss. Just don't get mad at people who do.

By the way, vaporized herb isn't necessarily "spend." It can have 10-20% or more of its THC content unused, so the foolish thing to do would be to toss it. Excuse me for being economical, but I can't afford at the moment (see, I'm acquiring this thing called a DEGREE--it's great to have for finding these things called GOOD JOBS that make MONEY) to use exclusively "Hindu Kush" or whatever your dealer told you the dro was he gave you.

So anyway, by all means have fun with your life of going nowhere and certainly, have a blast mocking educated people, but I doubt it's going to get you far. The real sad thing is that you probably don't care.

[King Buzzo]

I have read the NORML MAPS study and it appears to be the only study to have been done on the efficiency of various smoking devices. As such, I would not be wanting to claim that the results of that one study are the gospel truth. It is very possible that the study was flawed in some way and produced questionable results and conclusions. In any case, it is never wise to use results from only one experiment to formulate solid theories. As it stands right now there has not been close to enough research performed to conclusively determine what smoking device is the safest or most efficient nor to rank them in any meaningful order (the study itself admits as much). Argue as much as you want, but I think no one will truly know the answer until research is carried out on a broader scale and the results can be analyzed and interpreted in a much more significant manner. The NORML MAPS study itself says that more work must be done and they only tested for (1) solid particulates, and (2) THC, CBN, CBD, when a lot more chemicals do exist in smoke. What is needed is a full analysis done with a chromatograph used to analyze the smoke so that its full composition can be known.

quoting from the study ...

"Nonetheless, it is still premature to judge that waterpipes are actually unhealthful, since they may filter out other, non-solid smoke toxins occurring in the gas phase of the smoke, which was not analyzed in the study. Noxious gases known to occur in marijuana smoke include hydrogen cyanide, which incapacitates the lung's defensive cilia; volatile phenols, which contribute to the harshness of the taste; aldehydes, which promote cancer; and carbon monoxide, a known risk factor in heart disease. Previous studies indicate that water filtration may be quite effective in absorbing some of these [Nicholas Cozzi, Effects of Water Filtration on Marijuana Smoke: A Literature Review, MAPS Newsletter, Vol. IV #2, 1993]. If so, waterpipes might still turn out to have net health benefits."


So let's hope they make it easier for anyone wanting to experiment with marijuana so we can get some hard definitive truths ...


One last thing ... the reason that bong water does contain THC is because the THC itself becomes attached to water soluble tars and solids which do get filtered out by the bong water. THC in its pure form is not water soluble, but when it exists as part of a marjuana plant and is smoked it exhibits some water solubility due to its adherence to the tars.

[AcidFreak]

Shai Hulud, I think I like you. :D

This thread is great.

[Shai Hulud]

King Buzzo

Obviously a lot more research does need to be done. Unfortunately it's very difficult for scientists to get approval to do these kinds of studies and until the political situation changes we probably won't have much to go on. That said, the NORML/MAPS study isn't the ONLY one that's been done. There's also this one, printed in the Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics:

Cannabis Vaporizer Combines Efficient Delivery of THC with Effective Suppression of Pyrolytic Compounds (http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/jcantgieringervapor.pdf)

This study focuses on the Volcano in particular and doesn't say anything about other vaporizers:

"The major finding of this study was a drastic quantitative reduction in non-cannabinoid compounds in the vapor from the Volcano. This strongly suggests that vaporization is an effective method for delivering medically active cannabinoids while effectively suppressing other potentially deleterious compounds that are a byproduct of combustion."

I like my Volcano.

[P.E.N.G.U.I.N.]

in regards to the study on waterpipes: i don't know why they think people smoke more weed when they use a bong. if i were to smoke my bong's bowl's worth of weed and compare it to how high i get with my dad's pipe's huge bowl's worth of weed, i'd get way more fucked up with my bong. not to mention i don't need to worry about flaming marijuana flying in my mouth with good ol' Betty Bongo :D

[Hempamasta]

I would venture to say that smoking from a bong is a more pleasurable experience. You can take bigger, smooth-ass hits.

But Shai Halud (nice name, by the way.. Dune kicks ass).. I think that you're cool as fuck. Don't listen to what these other assholes say. Because you have _proof_, and they're just talking out of their collective ass.

[sugarmagnolia]

sorry I haven't been checking this online forum on weed everyday so I haven't been able to respond to your bitchy little comeback. yeah u do have a lot of anger issues. and fuck, do u want me to make you a rought draft of my argument or something so I can correct my spelling. suck my dick. your still a dumbass for putting bong water in your brownies. even if it got you high its still disgusting. You might be able to get drunk if u drink some drunk person's piss, but hey I aint buying.

are you really that ignorant to look at ONE piece of research and claim that it is the truth. "What the hell makes you an authority?" I don't claim to be an authority. You never even battled the information I gave you. You just gave me your damned study again. so tell me this time.... if THC is not water soluble, how are you gonna give me a glass of water and tell me their is THC in it. so does this mean that all scientists have been wrong and THC is in fact water-soluble? I don't know, but I was bringing up a counter-statement.

don't be such a fucking douchebag you bitch boy. and don't call me a nerd, cause shit man, ur in college and ur still on this website yelling at people cause your such a weak little fuck you can't do this shit in person. so it was nice reading your little bitch and moan. so now I assume your going to write some little rant back trying to speak all eloquently to make yourself look superior and you'll probably post the same link again.

but fuck you and rebuttle my statement this time. THC IS NOT WATER-SOLUBLE. so go ahead, be little bitch and write back and post me that link again.

[Shai Hulud]

Sugarmagnolia

All it means to say something is not water-soluble is that it won't form a homogeneous mixture in water. That's not to say it won't form a colloidal dispersion or other heterogeneous mixture; it just means pure THC won't mix evenly in water. And also, like King Buzzo pointed out, THC can attach to water-soluble tars.

I don't feel the need to insult you any further, as you obviously don't know what you're talking about, which is apparent to anyone who knows how to read. So go ahead spreading your misunderstanding about the properties of solutions, but maybe next time you should consult someone who didn't fail high school chemistry before doing so.

[Left]

i would say make brownies. i like the taste of weed personally and you might be able to get high which would be an added bonus.

[Cacophony]

I see my detractors have been having second thoughts as to the veracity of their limitless knowledge. Cowards.

That my friends, is a psuedo-intellectual at its finest.

[Fan o KmK]

dude give up, shai hulud or whatever is way smarter than anyone here will ever be. he helped me out doing something once and yea. i hope that made sence, om gona go smoek smore weed and go to bed, peace leagl bud.

[Fan o KmK]

Sugarmagnolia

All it means to say something is not water-soluble is that it won't form a homogeneous mixture in water. That's not to say it won't form a colloidal dispersion or other heterogeneous mixture; it just means pure THC won't mix evenly in water. And also, like King Buzzo pointed out, THC can attach to water-soluble tars.

I don't feel the need to insult you any further, as you obviously don't know what you're talking about, which is apparent to anyone who knows how to read. So go ahead spreading your misunderstanding about the properties of solutions, but maybe next time you should consult someone who didn't fail high school chemistry before doing so.


hoyl shit sugarmagnolia, you just got verbally reaped in the face! holy fuck. lol. damn

[vincevaper]

How about applesauce?

I've found that even a low-tech pipe used for vaporizing can thoroughly extract the THC. I did a few trial and errors, smoking the spent weed and found that with patience and fine grinding all you end up wasting is the residue. And yes, I tried sprinkling spent weed in applesauce. It didn't taste too terrible, but it had no effect whatsoever.

[Bob the Awesome]

Thank God for people like Shai Hulud and King Buzzo, there's too many potheads out there that talk like "omg u need to gets yurself a bong, dude". And nice topic, I'm learning a lot, I've been on a 1 1/2 month smoke break...

[benny123]

dude you were fuckin stupid to make shitty brownies outta that weed

what you should have done was make some oil it is way nicer to smoke than weed and your not going to smoke that vaporized weed anyway
oil gets you so stoned its unbelievable
how to make awsome oil (www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3083.html)

[Goodman3eb]

Here's an idea: use ice in your bong instead of water, and you get the cooling without the THC extraction!! Whoa! Crazy, no?

Shai Hulud, what college are you at? I'm doing college apps right now; it'd be cool if I were applying to where you're going. What's your major?

[P.E.N.G.U.I.N.]

dude give up, shai hulud or whatever is way smarter than anyone here will ever be. he helped me out doing something once and yea. i hope that made sence, om gona go smoek smore weed and go to bed, peace leagl bud.

Hey!!! Give me a chance! I am only Fifteen and I feel I could hold my ground in an intellectual conversation with Shai Halud and Hempmasta. Even if I can't now, I have lots of years to go. :cool:

[P.E.N.G.U.I.N.]

How about applesauce?

I've found that even a low-tech pipe used for vaporizing can thoroughly extract the THC. I did a few trial and errors, smoking the spent weed and found that with patience and fine grinding all you end up wasting is the residue. And yes, I tried sprinkling spent weed in applesauce. It didn't taste too terrible, but it had no effect whatsoever.

Applesauce is Water Based, and the Vaporized Herb probably had a very trace amount of THC in it to begin with.

[vincevaper]

Applesauce is Water Based, and the Vaporized Herb probably had a very trace amount of THC in it to begin with.

Yes, but it was buttery applesauce! Whether smoked or eaten (I tried both) the point was that through experimentation I managed to extract all of what was useful from the weed without burning it. My first attempts at vaporizing had leftovers that were still potent.

[Shai Hulud]

Here's an idea: use ice in your bong instead of water, and you get the cooling without the THC extraction!! Whoa! Crazy, no?

Shai Hulud, what college are you at? I'm doing college apps right now; it'd be cool if I were applying to where you're going. What's your major?
Yeah, I like sticking my bong in the freezer. Gives such delicious, cool hits. Maybe I'm a little paranoid but I'd rather not give out my location on a messageboard themed on illegal activities--but you can email me if you want. [email protected]

And I'm studying physics and computer science.

[useless666]

ok, here is what you all need to do;
1: get abour 2 1/2 grams of good weed
2: goto the deli and get a honey dutch
3: Break up the weed, roll the dutch
4: Smoke it all, take big hits.

you'll fell a lot better, and TURN the computer off for a liltel while.

Some of you sound like you need this,ALOT.

[sMOkeY bOB]

and TURN the computer off for a liltel while.

Some of you sound like you need this,ALOT.

my thoughts exactly, basically this thread is going nowere cos know it all fucks think they have all the knowledge in the world cos they can read, well yippy shai halud fuck u and u do have anger issues, i dont care if thc is water soluable my bong gets me fucked, vapourized weed tastes like ass i smoked it thru my bong,

stop with the fighting peeple can we not live in peace

[Shai Hulud]

and TURN the computer off for a liltel while.

Some of you sound like you need this,ALOT.

my thoughts exactly, basically this thread is going nowere cos know it all fucks think they have all the knowledge in the world cos they can read, well yippy shai halud fuck u and u do have anger issues, i dont care if thc is water soluable my bong gets me fucked, vapourized weed tastes like ass i smoked it thru my bong,

stop with the fighting peeple can we not live in peace
Waaaaaaahhhh. Waaaaahh.

Shut up and go away if you don't care about the discussion.

[sMOkeY bOB]

screw u pal, i culd rip the shit outa ur ass all fuckin day, but basically ive got more brains and probly a tad more intelligence then you, maybe not i dont really care, ur a no it all fuk and no it all fuks dont deserve to smoke green, green is for the mellow peeple, i came on this site to find out bout the thing i love the most in life, not to fight wif sum jock strap fuck up like you, so kiss my ass and the only thing i have left to say to you is "eat shit and die"
ur a waste of my time and effort

[ShamanicHippy]

^ dude I'm only 16 and I'm not retarded enough to drink bong water.

and no, THC is not water soluble. so how the fuck is it supposed to dissolve in water? wait lets see..... it doesn't. U and ur friend are all little bitches to what we call placebo in the educated community. U probably should not have smoked before you did ur little experiment with eating horrible tasting brownies.

and don't even try to tell me that the bong is less efficient than the unfiltered joint.
chill man. THC is water soluable just barely.

[Shai Hulud]

screw u pal, i culd rip the shit outa ur ass all fuckin day, but basically ive got more brains and probly a tad more intelligence then you, maybe not i dont really care, ur a no it all fuk and no it all fuks dont deserve to smoke green, green is for the mellow peeple, i came on this site to find out bout the thing i love the most in life, not to fight wif sum jock strap fuck up like you, so kiss my ass and the only thing i have left to say to you is "eat shit and die"
ur a waste of my time and effort
I came here to talk about weed too, jackass. But when several random people start impugning my intelligence simply because they're ignorant, I'm going to defend myself.

And maybe you do have more intelligence "then" me, but I think you're dreaming.

pEeCe DuuDde

[P.E.N.G.U.I.N.]

Why is everyone so angry on these boards? For fuck's sake, Love Thy Neighbor. At first Shai Halud was pissing me off, but now I really respect his stand. He's just pointing out to us that waterpipes don't work as well as joints or vaporizers. He even prefers his bong to other methods of smoking. He's showing true signs of intelligence, instead of saying he's only going to use his Volcano or joints to blaze. Leave him the fuck alone. He IS one of the most intelligent people I have ever come in contact with, and I greatly respect him. He actually takes the time to research things instead of going off rumors. Oh, By the way Shai Halud, Thanks for reassuring me that I'm not psychotic for researching odd things in my spare time. Once again, everyone here needs to calm the fuck down. Alright, thus ends my attempt at calming everybody down.

[P.E.N.G.U.I.N.]

Wow. I didn't think that'd totally kill the thread...

[Shai Hulud]

Wow. I didn't think that'd totally kill the thread...
Haha. I think the thread died because I pissed off about half the board, and they don't want to deal with me anymore. I didn't start this thread with the intention to piss people off, but to get advice from others who'd done similar things before. I'm probably a little more defensive than necessary, so for future warning:

If you want to avoid the verbal assault from me, don't be hostile in the first place. I'm really not a very angry person in general.

And to the rest of you, I appreciate your support and your consideration of the evidence. It is possible to have civilized disagreements and discussions (which I happen to enjoy), but not when people ignore the arguments and instead spout out self-glorifying bullshit.

[sMOkeY bOB]

i come in peace, and my apologies, but from the start i was jus trying to cause peace, fuk im wasted who cares, and bro im dum as fuk, but at least i can say it and be proud, laters

[Shai Hulud]

i come in peace, and my apologies, but from the start i was jus trying to cause peace, fuk im wasted who cares, and bro im dum as fuk, but at least i can say it and be proud, laters
Yeah, peace, smokey bob. To those of you I offended, I apologize. I'm not looking to make enemies here.