44,000 lumens and 728 watts of CFL's!

[Marc Benson]

I'm obsessed. I admit it. Too bad I have the dreaded "Black Thumb Disease". But the plants look like freaking Christmas trees! Lights hanging all over 'em! Not cheap to do it this way though. Just anal about cfl's.

12 43 watters
4 23 watters
1 40 watt strip
1 80 watt strip

And here's a pic of what that many cfl's look like.

[Garden Knowm]

ZANDOR says that you can't add the lumens.

meaning, if you have 10 light with 2900 lumens a piece, you still only have 2900 lumens.. NOT 29000

sucks right.. he explained it.. and aI understood.. but I guess I was lying to myself cause now I just think he is a party Poooooooooper..

YOU HEAR ME ZANDOR!!!!!! you're a party POOOOPER

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

please take a better picture.. that thing is ridiculous

I love you

[Marc Benson]

I questioned some people that are very much in the know on lights and light energy. Here's what they said.

"The whole discussion in terms of lumens is pointless and not applicable to mj, or any plant. Nevertheless, doubling the lumen output in the same space will also double the lux (lumens per square meter) or foot-candles (lumens per square foot).

800w of HPS produces twice as many photons as 400w of HPS. This can be directly measured, there's no need for speculation."

and

"Light measured at the source is radiance. Light measured at a distance from the source is irradiance.

We are primarily interested in photosynthetic photon flux (radiance) and photosynthetic photon flux density (PPFD, irradiance). Other useful units are watts (radiance) and watts per square foot (irradiance).

Lumens are not a useful unit of measure of radiance for our purposes because the lumen is biased to human visual perception. The corresponding units of irradiance (lux, foot-candles) are also not useful."

Go figure. All I know is that if you had one 43 watt bulb in there that the plants wouldn't be as dense. Basically that's what you're suggesting that Zandor is suggesting.

[mand]

Hello Marc :)

"Light measured at the source is radiance. Light measured at a distance from the source is irradiance.

We are primarily interested in photosynthetic photon flux (radiance) and photosynthetic photon flux density (PPFD, irradiance). Other useful units are watts (radiance) and watts per square foot (irradiance).

Lumens are not a useful unit of measure of radiance for our purposes because the lumen is biased to human visual perception. The corresponding units of irradiance (lux, foot-candles) are also not useful."


Sorry love but is that from an episode of "Star Trek" :D I'm sorry Marc but I read that and it cracked me up :)

Anyway Marc how are Amanda and Stumpy?

Do me a favour Marc, when you grow the next crop just relax, let nature do the hard work and just look forward to reaping the rewards ;)
Marc just look at some of the beautiful pics you have shown me, all the flowers and the trees, all done by nature ;)
I tell you if I lived close by I'd be in there, getting rid of half the lights, all the nutrients and telling you to go and have a beer and relax :)
Then I'd go to the feild with the horses in, bag up some muck and feed that to you're girls ;)

Please don't think I'm telling you off Marc because I'm not............speak to you soon.......................love mand xxx :)

[Marc Benson]

Well for one thing it's not really a 'real' photo of what the light looks like coming out of the grow area. I was just funnin ya. ha

Nope not from Star Wars. Just from one of those guys that can't just say something simply. Like some doctors. You ask them what's wrong and they go on at length with very technical and sometimes unheard of terms. Then you say..."What?"

But his point sounds valid. Lumens is a measure of light intensity for humans. Plants could give a rat's ass about lumens as it doesn't relate to what they need. They need the energy the light generates. It doesn't matter how bright it is to the plant. Just so it gets the energy. We could call it "cabumblefuk's" instead of lumens, but lumens is what we've been "trained" to recognize.

But if I had posted the subject of this thread "44,000 PHOTONS!" most people would've posted responses like, "So how many lumens is that?" I'ts what we're used to.

And you can tell me off all you want Mand. Just don't tie me up. ;) Well.... maybe just once.

[Garden Knowm]

What happened??? I got lost.. and all dicombobulated

[chisme]

lolo i got lost after the cfl pic

[turtle420]

Ahhhh! Marc! My eyes hurts!!!

[mand]

Well for one thing it's not really a 'real' photo of what the light looks like coming out of the grow area. I was just funnin ya. ha



And you can tell me off all you want Mand. Just don't tie me up. ;) Well.... maybe just once.


Thank God for that Marc I thought it "welding goggles time" :)


Oh and do I regret doing that little bondage post :o You see I'm a easy going type, farliy liberal minded, nothing wrong with a little bit of fun.
However I knew this guy, seemed ever so nice. I once visted his house and found another side to him :rolleyes:
He was totally into bondage and wanting to be humiliated, he had alsorts of restraints, chains, and things I dread to think what they were.
I left in a hurry and told him I was once married to a oddball, I was not about to get involved with another...................just too much for me.

Mind you I do regret not just tying him up just leaving him there ;)


Just one of lifes experiences I guess ;)


love mand xxx :)

[HARDDON]

Sorry but I still think lumens are the way to track it.

Yes i too cnanot understand if I have one bulb at 10K lumens and add 5 more, how the resulting light doesnt equate to more lumens.

Also, sure plants done see like we do....but we dont 'see' lumens and we dont 'see' photons either. We see what is rated at a CRI, or color rendering index.

Plants see KELVINS.

Heck I am not gonna write a bood about lumens and photons anyhow.

I just gonna say get your ass some high Kelvin temps CFL and go to work :)

[Zandor]

Marc please check your facts closer someone may believe you have a clue about what you are doing someday. Try to understand what you are trying to say instead of just copy paste stolen information from another website.
Calculating foot-candles or lux is a more accurate way to estimate the amount of light the plant receives. It does not measure how much light the plant uses.

The correct formula is I=L/D²

Intensity = Light output divided by the distance squared.

The reason you can't add the watts or lumens up is because they don't share the same space. Even if they are next to each other it's still not the same space. Proper light placement is most important. Light intensity diminishes exponentially very fast.

Lumen is just another way to measure the intensity of the light and is a very accepted unit of measurement. I know they should have asked you for your opinion but hey they came up with the formula I would guess before you were born.

Light from 0-12" has the same power in lumens it's after the first 12" that we need to deal with. I will finish up the drawing I am working this weekend and make light placement and it diminishing effects into an FAQ.

[Marc Benson]

Zandor please check your abilities to act like a moderator instead of someone that has this childish need to attack anyone that might go against what he suggests.

The site I got that off of and the person that offered those insights very well may put you to shame in their knowledge of such things. I can't prove that, but by what everyone suggested that responded to the thread on that site, this guy is just about as close to a genius as it pertains to light/light energy as you can get. And the people supporting him aren't just a bunch of wasted kids. They're older people that have grown for decades and have a lot of experience. So instead of telling everyone on this site that the information I offered is totally bogus, prove what you say is correct. Of course drawings don't prove anything. Anyone can draw anything. Support from others in this field will prove it. So show us some of that too. I'm sure you'll have a lot of it and won't just try to make us believe anything you say just because you say it.

Have a great day. I'm gonna go look at my lumens.

[Garden Knowm]

I'm taking my toys and leaving this sand box....

you can come with me : )

I love you

[HARDDON]

The correct formula is I=L/D²

Intensity = Light output divided by the distance squared.

The reason you can't add the watts or lumens up is because they don't share the same space. Even if they are next to each other it's still not the same space.

Ok I think i am beginning to understand Zandor's reasoning. However, if two lights are indeed side by side, the lumens emmitted should OVERLAP at some point within the 12 inches.

So if say I have two lights shining, it is true then that not ALL the space will have the added lumen total.......

Makes perfect sense...

However, again there must be some overlapping of the lumen displacement that is calulated.

Also, if say 5 lights are in ONE BOX, and the light is emmited from a single square foot space with the use of reflectors and the lighting is reccessed, then you should be able to add up the lumens.

Yes?

[HARDDON]

On another note, with me and BB having our war of words yesterday, I prolly shouldnt say anthing about the rift here brewing, but......

I think MB is a nice fellow, very helpful and certainly one of the least confrontational persons around here.

I find his info that he posts, even if just opinions, to be interesting and I actually do try to see the reasoning behind his search from other sites.

Even though I don't agree with them all :):D

I think he just by nature, plays devils advocate to present the opposite of the "status quoa." I thinks it is a good thing to have, even if it is wrong.

Zandor may be a little edgy today after having to listen to me and Bob go at it for 18 hours. I dont know.

But I did think the.....


Marc please check your facts closer someone may believe you have a clue about what you are doing someday.

was a bit harsh.

If directed to me, hell, I deserve that.....but MB has certainly been a gentleman around here......and has never, IMO, come off as anything different.

But I hope we can lay it to rest here and move on...

We have a neat little family here of regulars who answer the same questions over and over and over and over and hopefully this site is increasing in popularity and favorite page status on our subjects because of that family.

I see so many people here that post then just dissappear never to be heard from again...like Emptypockets....once his tree was stolen, hes hardly around anymore.

WTF about the family?

Then we have guys like Thuglette who dissapear but then one day come back and it was like a lost son coming back home :)

I guess Zandor is the father who spanks us when he feels it neccessary....whether it is or not...

I love you all.

Fuck even you BobBOng...

kinda like my ugly stepsister :D

Peace to us all..........

[Zandor]

Ah so marc you are saying that is not the correct formula for light calcuations?

Intresting!!!

You know what you all ask Marc for help then I have things to do.

Have fun and good luck with your growing.

[AngryJohnny]

how shitty is that.

[HARDDON]

Ah come on gang....

MB, I cant imagine any person or persons or groups of any geniuses putting Zandor trees to shame. That just isnt possible.

OUt of a 5 gallon bucket he can grow a fricking hedge to cover the White House lawn :)

Nothing puts that to shame.....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come on you too zandor.....you know we all look to you as the final "live or die" Ceasar around here. We all love you and want you to lead us.........

Come on guys...all of us.....GROUP HUGS :)

I'll go first.....me and BobBOng and gnome all HUG FIRST :):)

(dont grab my ass Bob :) )

[Marc Benson]

"You know what you all ask Marc for help then I have things to do."

So Harddon, 1 person, supports me as a person and says that he sometimes doesn't agree with me but my view is nice to hear sometimes (just for shits and giggles) and you get pissed off and tell everyone else to pretty much screw off and just listen to me?! Really does say a lot. Everything is clear.

And I agree HD. Zandor is a master when it comes to this 'hobby'. No doubt about that at all. And absolutely no doubt either that there are many many many others that know just as much or way more that don't frequent this site that we all could benefit from. To suggest that we shouldn't listen to those people also and weigh what all say as compared to others...is ridiculous.

I'm done. Have a good one! If anyone has any questions just let me know as...I know all.

Peace and love and flowers!!!!!!

[HARDDON]

Why you harshing on me MB?

Hell I dont agree with anyone all the time. Not even Zandor.

But that doesn't mean you need to get all hurt or defensive. Shit we go a ways back and you and I have agreed to disagree on many occassions....

Why the attitude?

And I dont tell anyone to screw off because of a difference of opinions....it has to get much more personal than that.

Hell I am surprised you take it this way...???

FUck here I am trying to build bridges and I got you on the other side hacking away what I screwed together with my erector set :(

Fuck It...I'll take my erector set home and play with myself :)

[Garden Knowm]

Ummmmmm question.... if I understand correctly.. umm...

zandor, hd and mb have left the house... is this right..??

uh.. what if I get scared... or hungry... or somebody asks a question that requires a real answer and not some of my bullshit...?

What if, you all leaving causes a power vaccum and turtle gets power hungry and starts to bully me...?

What if that thug guy who eats dogs in hot dog buns starts flexing and turns this place into a hip hop paradise and invites suge night and mike tyson over to play...

dude, this is not cool....


i love you

[Marc Benson]

Harddon,

I wasn't hammering on you at all. In fact I appreciate you standing up for me. I think you took it totally wrong. No disrespect meant for you or anything you said. Seriously. That was all targeted towards 'someone' else. (hushmail)

Garden Knowm,

I haven't left. Take way more than some kid telling me I don't know anything to get me to leave someplace I don't want to, unless I get banned.

I don't really see this whole thing as much of anything. I offered some information I felt interesting and Zandor suggested I know nothing. No big deal.

[Garden Knowm]

i love you

[turtle420]

What if, you all leaving causes a power vaccum and turtle gets power hungry and starts to bully me...?

What if that thug guy who eats dogs in hot dog buns starts flexing and turns this place into a hip hop paradise and invites suge night and mike tyson over to play...

AhahahhaaAAAA Ahahhahahahahaaaa Oh fucking shit, I'm pissing my pants... Ahahahahhahaaa AhhhaAaaaa!!!



uh.. what if I get scared... or hungry... or somebody asks a question that requires a real answer and not some of my bullshit...?

Well, that bullshit of yours grows some great plants! More bullshit! More!

[Lady Vapor]

I thought the site I put my music up got kinda pissy at times. I can understand that from a bunch of egotistical self proclaimed musicians, but not from people that love the nature of the herb...

For some reason I recall the monkey in Planet of the Apes saying, "Can't we all just get along?"

Peace please...

[Garden Knowm]

everyone is getting along... but we had to push some out to make room for you..