Angel my ass!

[F L E S H]

Does anyone remember the story about a lady taken hostage, who later convinced her captor to let her go after suggesting he read The Purpose Driven Life, a religious self help book? Here's an interesteing article...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20050930/cm_usatoday/afterfurtherreview

'Angel' in Atlanta. Last March, the news media, and the public at large, couldn't get enough of the story of Ashley Smith, a 27-year-old woman who convinced her captor, an alleged rapist and murderer, to release her after a seven-hour hostage ordeal.


To many, Smith was evidence of the presence of a divine hand. By talking of her faith and reading passages of The Purpose Driven Life, she had convinced a man - who just hours before had allegedly shot four people at a local courthouse - to let her go.


As it turns out, there is more to the story. In her new book, Unlikely Angel, Smith says she provided more than spiritual guidance to her captor. She gave him crystal methamphetamines.


This might come as a disappointment to some fans of Rick Warren's mega-bestseller. It's hard to tell at this point whether his prose or her drugs had a bigger impact on her captor's actions.


The admission, however, should do little to detract from Smith's story or diminish her stature. She never tried to hide her own troubled past, which included arrests for drunken driving and shoplifting. That she would have had illegal drugs in her home, and that she would have provided them on demand, is hardly surprising.


Smith's story shows that not only can first appearances be deceiving, they can also be less interesting than the complete story that emerges later.

[chisme]

conspiracy!!!

[Ousted]

I dont find it at all surprising that a captor was able to be pursuaded to let her go after influence from a spiritual book.

He kidnapped her at the height of legal troubles over a rape case, I believe, after he freaked at the courthouse killing several people.

People, all people, believe themselves to be good people. Even if all evidence points to the contrary, people do not believe themselves specifically to be horrible. People who do or have done really bad things most always believe themselves to be good people, they just rationalize their behavior(s) that they were unfairly influenced from events of their environments, and most feel they had no control to do otherwise given said events leading up to the bad behavior.


It really seemed like to me that he was desperate for some sort of answer to help him. He probably thought having a hostage would be a good, forcable way to get out of this mess he created, but alas, reality sets in, the entirity of his desperation sets in...the meth probably set in, lol, all those factors can lead someone to the Lord, cuz really, what's his alternative? You just have to be influenced in the right way, and this lady, I believe, was probably just fortunate enough to have a good understanding of people. Instead of fearing him, she sympathized with him, and made him feel as though she found him worthy of being saved from the hell he created for himself. It does take a strong person to be able to do that, help from meth or not. Her making him human made her human in his eyes. Having compassion for her captor saved her life.

[Ousted]

Forgot to put my point...der.

Anyway, the original point I was trying to make which I forgot by the time I finished my post was that because of her ability to humanize her captor, thats what made him free her. Not the religious book. Not the Lord. She could have read him an article in cosmo titled "Niceness is nice" and his being influenced would have been because of the way she treated him, because she didn't look at him as a monster. Thats what he needed.
He bought the car cuz he liked the salesperson, in other words.

[F L E S H]

Forgot to put my point...der.

Anyway, the original point I was trying to make which I forgot by the time I finished my post was that because of her ability to humanize her captor, thats what made him free her. Not the religious book. Not the Lord. She could have read him an article in cosmo titled "Niceness is nice" and his being influenced would have been because of the way she treated him, because she didn't look at him as a monster. Thats what he needed.
He bought the car cuz he liked the salesperson, in other words.
Yeah, that, and lots of crystal meth... Did you read my entire post, Ousted?

[slipknotpsycho]

People, all people, believe themselves to be good people. Even if all evidence points to the contrary, people do not believe themselves specifically to be horrible. People who do or have done really bad things most always believe themselves to be good people, they just rationalize their behavior(s) that they were unfairly influenced from events of their environments, and most feel they had no control to do otherwise given said events leading up to the bad behavior.

this does not apply to all people. people that blame their own problems/bad behaviors on other stuff, such as peer pressure or 'they couldn't stop theirselves' are only fooling themselves..everyone is in control of their own actions, maybe they can't control their thoughts, maybe they even feel the need to kill...but in the end they are responsible for making the decision to do such a thing. and imo people who try to find excuses or other faults that lead them down the passage they chose are worthless moronic pussies.

[Ousted]

Yeah, that, and lots of crystal meth... Did you read my entire post, Ousted?

Yeah, I did. I mentioned the meth in my posts in a few places. ;)

[Ousted]

this does not apply to all people. people that blame their own problems/bad behaviors on other stuff, such as peer pressure or 'they couldn't stop theirselves' are only fooling themselves..

I agree they are only fooling themselves. Most people have to in order to live with themselves.


everyone is in control of their own actions, maybe they can't control their thoughts, maybe they even feel the need to kill...but in the end they are responsible for making the decision to do such a thing.

True. But people dont like to think they are wrong or evil. They might mature enough to become accountable, but if they do mature enough to be accountable, then they will have maturity to not behave the way they have previously. Until that enlightenment strikes (which in most cases it does not), understand they will not believe themselves to be bad people, really.


and imo people who try to find excuses or other faults that lead them down the passage they chose are worthless moronic pussies.

Oh, I absolutely agree. But you or I telling them that isn't going to help you, me or them any. People are naturally defensive, and if you aren't for the person and show you understand him (not that you agree or think he's right or anything, just understand), then you're against him, and he will in turn be against you. This lady was smart enough to know that.

[slipknotpsycho]

i just have a severe problem wtih people acting helpless....like some unknown force is making them do 'bad things'. if everyone in this world stood up and took responsibility for what they do, then in my head maybe the world would be in a much better situation than it is now.

[Ousted]

i just have a severe problem wtih people acting helpless....like some unknown force is making them do 'bad things'. if everyone in this world stood up and took responsibility for what they do, then in my head maybe the world would be in a much better situation than it is now.

Yup. Just will take a little more evolving of the human species to naturally do what is right to you and your fellow man instead of doing what serves ourselves, which still is a pretty primitive behavior in this day and age, especially if you've reached adulthood. It can happen, though, I believe. Not in my lifetime, but I still believe it can happen someday where being self-serving wont be so ingrained in our instincts.

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

i just have a severe problem wtih people acting helpless....like some unknown force is making them do 'bad things'. if everyone in this world stood up and took responsibility for what they do, then in my head maybe the world would be in a much better situation than it is now.
i think religion just elaborated the idea of the "evil force" in order to gain followers, put people under their control. they say they are a necessity for people to follow through with their spiritual life and keep them on track to being "safer" from the "evil". while that idea is in the bible, the idea of sharing ideas and fellowshipping to keep people understanding the guidepoints for life in the bible, but the church fucked it up by exaggerating this evil. good idea in theory, but humans can't allow it and corruption is throughout the whole shit.

[slipknotpsycho]

i don't doubt for a second that early religious leaders, if not made up, severely over-elaborated evil forces to gain followers...i mean one of the most basic animal instincts is survival...and if you have some well known powerful (and believed at the time) leader tell you that you'll die and suffer forever if you don't follow them, of course the majority will follow so that they can survive. but with all that aside, even if god and the devil is real....the bottom line people still make their own choices..and i'm making a statement of how much i really despise people who use excuses, instead of owning up to what they've done. the way i've always seen it..if you're ball-sy enough to do the crime then you better be ball-sy enough to do the time. i do believe there are a select few exempt from my way of thinking....there is such a thing as psychosis when you really don't knwo what your doing, the world to you is diffrent than everyone else....but that don't mean they should be able to blame, say killing someone on that and walk away....while the family members of the murdered suffer...

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

the bottom line people still make their own choices..and i'm making a statement of how much i really despise people who use excuses, instead of owning up to what they've done. the way i've always seen it..if you're ball-sy enough to do the crime then you better be ball-sy enough to do the time. i do believe there are a select few exempt from my way of thinking....there is such a thing as psychosis when you really don't knwo what your doing, the world to you is diffrent than everyone else....but that don't mean they should be able to blame, say killing someone on that and walk away....while the family members of the murdered suffer...
i don't doubt for one minute that people do that, and that it's fucked up. but the "bad vibes" or what have you, have some sort of role in things that you do that are fucked up. if you put yourself around certain negative influences, you may react differently to a bad decision you make. like let's say some guy is hanging out with a bunch of people that are badasses about killing people and starting shit with people, and then he later did things like that, that would be a bad influence and hell, he did what he did and that's fucked up, but were he to say "damn, if i hadn't hung out with those fucked up people, i would have never gotten into this shit" i think a statement like that could be attacked not knowing the circumstances. just realize that people say that shit that are fucked up, but there's always some sort of story as explanation of behavior. i sort of realized this in clear thought today when i was chillin, so that's why it's so fresh in my mind.

[Breukelen advocaat]

I could picture somebody like Nichols snorting some speed, possibly for the first time, and having his mindset change gears and see the futility of the murderous crime spree he was caught up in. Meth, combined with the influence of Ashley Smith's soothing, sympathetic words and demeanor (actually, she was terrified), temporarily repaired something in this person's brain that was dormant, or frequently unreachable, for a long time.

Before anti-depressants and anti-anxiety chemicals became the norm, amphetamine-type drugs were used extensively to treat depression, fatigue, various emotional problems, and other conditions such as obesity. Ms. Smith was lucky she had some around that day, because it very likely saved her life.

[beachguy in thongs]

Someone should not be classified an "Angel" and written about publicly, until the whole world knows an "angel" exists.

[F L E S H]

Someone should not be classified an "Angel" and written about publicly, until the whole world knows an "angel" exists.
Angels exist about as much as leprechauns, elves, fairies, and the abominable snowman.

[beachguy in thongs]

Angels exist about as much as leprechauns, elves, fairies, and the abominable snowman.

Hey, Elvis is dead, but Sasquatch lives.

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

Angels exist about as much as leprechauns, elves, fairies, and the abominable snowman.
you don't think that there are other types of paranormal forces. maybe not an angel persay but like, spirits or some sort of something around?

what about any kind of extraterrestrial or alien life? who's to say that the fairies or elves or angels or spirits aren't from some other place? i mean all of these labels have existed within religions since the beginning of time, you don't think that the primitive religions may have been trying to make sense of something else around us?