Do you believe in god?

[Melton420]

it might be the wrong room but who cares, its about god, i want to know who believes in god and jesus, i personally do with all my heart, and i hope others are that fortunate, but for all of you who are not, i hope you see the light and turn your beliefs around, i hope to see some feedback.

[FunkyMonkey]

Great thread starter. We need some more intelligent discussion .
I believe in a source of energy that we all originate from, are connected to and return to. I dont know what to call it but I believe deeply that it is there. I have seen its power in my life and I know it to be real.

[Warlock]

I don't believe in "God" or "Jesus", they're just stories that have been taken out of proportion through the years.
I'm fortunate enough not to base my life on a fairy-tale.

[Melton420]

well im not saying you right but im not saying your worng
but, i mean everything thats been happening, in my openyen is signs fromm god that jesus is comming soon

[Warlock]

well im not saying you right but im not saying your worng
but, i mean everything thats been happening, in my openyen is signs fromm god that jesus is comming soon

You know, people have been saying Jesus is coming for many many years, it's not happening. It's impossible for a person that may have lived 2000yrs ago to come back to life.
Your Jesus prophet is no different from any other prophet, they're just wasters with too much time on their hands.
I can assure you, no dead person is coming back from his grave, not in your life time, not in any life time.

[buddymyfriend]

Great thread starter. We need some more intelligent discussion .
I believe in a source of energy that we all originate from, are connected to and return to. I dont know what to call it but I believe deeply that it is there. I have seen its power in my life and I know it to be real.


I'm with this man. I'm no believer of God or a greater being, but there just gotta be something not a someone. I believe we make our own heaven and hell.

Peace

Buddy

[Ae...]

I'm agnostic. I don't know maybe something is out there. The bible has just too many holes to make it anything I would want to put my 'faith' into. I do see quite a few supposedly Christians around my parts talking the talk, but that's about all. I don't think it works the way those people think. Parties, fights, and whatnot all week but then redeem your sins on Sunday so it cleans the slate for next week. Besides that I suppose you can look at it in the more logical sense like Warlock does. However, I think the 10 commandments are something everyone should know.

[Ae...]

Damnit, dozed off during the edit. The answer was no to beleiving in the 'God' you speak of, or any other god for that matter.

[Ze w33d Farm3r]

Why believe in what could be acually a false religion!i mean c'mon not being rude or anything but is their an actual possibility that some person jst sat down and wrote an elaborate story which somehow turned into the bible???

I myself am no believer in god or jesus...seems nice and all people devoting their life into what they think is right while others think wrong of it. but why like go to church EVERY sunday?! i found this extremely boring from a child as what i can recall and im sure everyone else did when there were only lil. but my parents told me i didnt have to like the religion and wouldnt force me to if i didnt want to, so i didnt! Ae i dont know the 10 commandments...all i know is something to do about adultery and thats it!

[Mirno Sctlnd]

I'm no believer in a "god" , organised religion is just used to rape the poor of freedom. I also believe those who worship a god are weak and scared thus spend their time worshiping an imaginary idol to calm their fears. THeir is likely to be some sort of energy that connects all living organisms, but just how this works I do not no, might find out abit more when I pop my clogs.:)>

[chonged]

yes i believe in God

but just in case God isnt at the gates of Heaven when i get there, i also belive in Allah, Buddah and

Apollo -god of medicine, prophecy, archery
Ares -god of war
Artemis - goddess of the hunt
Asclepius -god of medicine
Athena -goddess of wisdom and warfare
Aphrodite -goddess of love
Celesta -goddess of death
Cronus -god of the sky, Ruler of Titans
Demeter -goddess of grian
Dionysus -god of wine and vegetation
Discord -goddess of retribution
Eos -goddess of dawn
Eros -god of love
Hebe -goddess of youth
Hades -god of the underworld
Helios -god of the sun
Hephaestus -god of fire, and metalwork
Hera -goddess of marrige and childbirth, Queen of gods
Hermes -messenger of the gods
Hestia -virgin goddess
Hypnos -god of sleep
Iris -goddess of the rainbow
Kal -another god of war (but he's no Ares)
Lachrymore -god of despair
Mnemosyne -goddess of memory
Morpheus -god of dreams
Pan -god of shepards, and flocks
Poseidon -god of the sea
Rhea -wife of Cronus, Mother goddess
Selene -goddess of the moon
Uranus -god of the sky, father of the Titans
Zeus -king of all gods

[Hempamasta]

I do not believe in the Christain God or "Jesus". I believe in a source of energy that created the Universe. If it is intelligent, however, I do not know.

[butters]

yes , i KNOW that god exists...............................don't ask.
1 long story involving the atlanta braves.
but yes , i believe.........great song by the way , "i believe" by joe satraina , cant spell his name right now.

[F L E S H]

it might be the wrong room but who cares, its about god, i want to know who believes in god and jesus, i personally do with all my heart, and i hope others are that fortunate, but for all of you who are not, i hope you see the light and turn your beliefs around, i hope to see some feedback.
Conversely, I hope you'll be the one to see the light. Man created God, not the other way around. I don't need God anymore, because I have Reason. I don't believe in the imperfection of humanity (sins and all that) but I believe in the perfection. Why are humans so bad that we need to prove to God that we're worthy of going to heaven when Jesus said we'd all go anyway? Why are all our most profound impulses and instincts often considered sins? What are you really afraid of to have to believe in something as far-fetched as God?

[F L E S H]

I'm agnostic. I don't know maybe something is out there. The bible has just too many holes to make it anything I would want to put my 'faith' into. I do see quite a few supposedly Christians around my parts talking the talk, but that's about all. I don't think it works the way those people think. Parties, fights, and whatnot all week but then redeem your sins on Sunday so it cleans the slate for next week. Besides that I suppose you can look at it in the more logical sense like Warlock does. However, I think the 10 commandments are something everyone should know.
So true about the hypocrisy of many Christians... Do what you want all week, then a quick confession/communion and you're a-ok with the man upstairs! Sounds ridiculous? It is.

[kuulbns]

In Christianity, as in life there are many that have it screwed up. I am a Christian, yes I believe, but my number 1 rule is "Do Not Judge Others". I may not agree with you, I may not like you but, it is not for me to judge you. One thing we have is the the right to choose. I chose my way and it works for me. I am far from perfect and I don't expect any other person to be perfect either. I do expect and deserve the same respect I give. All I want for all of you out there is happiness and the best life has to offer you. As for an afterlife, what you believe is your decision. ;)

[GHoSToKeR]

Nope. No God for me. Just gimme a bag of weed, some munchies and some porn and i'm all set.

[beachguy in thongs]

I was saved. By a black guy, or so I was told. I was screwed by inexperienced police work. I don't give a shit. If you don't believe in Jesus, you can't believe in Hitler, because he's dead, too. Jesus was like Jimi Hendrix, way ahead of his time. God, because you all know you have one, wants to do it right, this time. Weed smokers who say they don't believe in God are liars because they are ingesting the soul of another lifeform. God may be POT. And he's sacrificing himself, just like Jesus, when governments (under God) burn him.

[GHoSToKeR]

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you can't believe in Hitler, because he's dead, too."

That makes no sense. There is documented and psychical proof that Hitler existed. There is absolutely no question as to whether he existed or not. There is no such proof of Jesus, and definately no such certainty of his existence.

"Weed smokers who say they don't believe in God are liars because they ingesting the soul of another lifeform."

That makes no sense either. In fact, it fails to make even the slightest possible scrap of sense whatsoever. It actually fails to make any sense so much that I feel it probably makes perfect sense and i'm just missing the point.

I don't even know where to start, so i'm not going to. And I could, if I wanted to, which I don't.

[Az.]

Great thread starter. We need some more intelligent discussion .
I believe in a source of energy that we all originate from, are connected to and return to. I dont know what to call it but I believe deeply that it is there. I have seen its power in my life and I know it to be real.

i agree .....i just call it energy....it never dies....its just converted into another form of energy.....i figure we go back to being carbon or somthing....isnt everything made out of carbon??

but yeah i dont have very much faith...

[Az.]

Why believe in what could be acually a false religion!

thats what faith is....believing in somthing you cant prove....most religion asks you to have faith....for reasons i dont know....mayve because there is NO proof....0% proof that god exists....

[beachguy in thongs]

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you can't believe in Hitler, because he's dead, too."

That makes no sense. There is documented and psychical proof that Hitler existed. There is absolutely no question as to whether he existed or not. There is no such proof of Jesus, and definately no such certainty of his existence.

What about those eyewitnesses? Do people make up stories, nowadays, about a fictional character? Yes, we can dig up Hitler's bones.
"Weed smokers who say they don't believe in God are liars because they ingesting the soul of another lifeform."

That makes no sense either. In fact, it fails to make even the slightest possible scrap of sense whatsoever. It actually fails to make any sense so much that I feel it probably makes perfect sense and i'm just missing the point.

You are communing with life. Life that was created. You didn't create it. Pot is life and smoking it makes you one, with another lifeform.


I lost my belief in God and then, amazingly, rediscovered Him. God sends people to do his work. God may be a huge brain, for all I know, but I thought I saw him at the bank, with long, white hair.

[highjinx]

i hate talking about god! nobody ever gets anywhere its always just a big fucking argument! its just a matter of opinion and belief. if you do, you do. if you dont, you dont!

[mrdevious]

tell you what melton420, if you remove your gross avatar so I don't have to look at it anymore, I'll consider converting.

[Melton420]

ok, was going to change it soon ne way

[Euphoric]

Nope. No God for me. Just gimme a bag of weed, some munchies and some porn and i'm all set.

dITTO

[beachguy in thongs]

The God of food created 'Munchies'. (don't know if you have them where you're at, but it's a particular brand)

[likemclever]

Iâ??m a Christian. I believe in Godâ?¦and I believe in Jesus Christ. I also believe were not getting the whole story when it comes to Christianity but I believe its basic principals to be correct.

The hardest part of any religion or even non-religion is â??faithâ?�.

Definitive proof of God and Jesus CAN NOT exist because if it did â??faithâ?� would be unnecessary.

If you believe in God you half to have faith. If you believe in no God you half to have faith that it is true. Because even though as Christians can never prove ourselves true, no one can prove us to be definitively false.

[mikeandjenherbals]

god is santa for adults

[mrdevious]

Iâ??m a Christian. I believe in Godâ?¦and I believe in Jesus Christ. I also believe were not getting the whole story when it comes to Christianity but I believe its basic principals to be correct.

The hardest part of any religion or even non-religion is â??faithâ?�.

Definitive proof of God and Jesus CAN NOT exist because if it did â??faithâ?� would be unnecessary.

If you believe in God you half to have faith. If you believe in no God you half to have faith that it is true. Because even though as Christians can never prove ourselves true, no one can prove us to be definitively false.

I believe, however, that the whole concept of "faith" was developed to encourage a mindset of unquestioning, and avoidance of critical thinking, due to theistic religions innability to explain how this makes sense. I mean after all, if faith weren't invented, people would be saying "that's a pretty big and outrageous claim, can you back it up?". A big reason I lack faith in the bible is because it was written 600 years after the events of jesus, by a priest interpreting story's spread through word of mouth. and if anybody's played that game where you say a sentence and send it through a long line of people, it always comes out all garbled at the end.

[GHoSToKeR]

Faith doesn't mean anything. It just means you believe something that there is no viable reason to believe. It has no place an a debate such as this.

[girlygirl]

damn! i am sober

[likemclever]

Faith doesn't mean anything. It just means you believe something that there is no viable reason to believe. It has no place an a debate such as this.

Are you saying that there is no room for the word faith in a religious discussion.

?????

[likemclever]

A big reason I lack faith in the bible is because it was written 600 years after the events of jesus, by a priest interpreting story's spread through word of mouth.

You are clearly not understanding faith....

you are asking for proof in order to have faith....

Buy definition thatâ??s not how faith works.


Like I said I don't think we are getting the whole story but I believe the books basics principles to be true.

And I believe that the book has been divinely inspired.

[GHoSToKeR]

No, that's not precisely what i'm saying. When discussing if one believes in God then yes, faith will play a big part in the discussion. But when discussing whether or not God actually exists, I don't think faith has anything to do with it. Faith does not prove anything, and it never will. That is the nature of faith. It should not even be mentioned and should never be used as an argument in itself.

[likemclever]

But when discussing whether or not God actually exists, I don't think faith has anything to do with it.

If you choose to believe that there is no God

Than that choice is ultimately grounded in faith itself.

[beachguy in thongs]

I'm telling you, God is pot...spelled backwards, upside down, and, sort of, illiterate.

[candygirl]

I dont believe at all........
I cant believe in a book that was created thousands of years ago.I mean if someone went around now sayin that they were jesus or that jesus wanted them to write a bible they would get tossed in the loony bin.

but hey opinions are like a**holes..........

[GHoSToKeR]

lol beachguy

likemclever, I don't see it as faith. It's a conclusion drawn from the available evidence, or in this case, lack of evidence.

Anybody could claim that anything exists; if I were to argue it would not be up to me to prove that it doesn't exist, it would be up to the person making the claim to prove that it does. Until that happens it is assumed that said thing does not exist, and to argue would be, well, stupid and completely illogical.

[CocaCola]

God to me, is not some dude up in Heaven looking down and saying things like... "That man is a sinner! I want his balls chopped off, LOL!" Naw, I think God is... everything. I am God and the world around me is God. I'm more of a believer in Mother Nature, then in a certain make-believe, long haired jew. Yeah, Jesus... Don't believe he's coming back. But I'm not sure if he really existed... if he did then props to him, cause he had some pretty interesting ideas.

[CocaCola]

I made a big fucking ultimate edit on what I think God is... and then I... RAN OUT OF TIME? WTF!?

[likemclever]

likemclever, I don't see it as faith. It's a conclusion drawn from the available evidence, or in this case, lack of evidence.





Gost....

How do you "proove" the existence of love?

[GHoSToKeR]

Love has physiological sympt..... Wait... Are you coming on to me? :D

[oldhag]

Having Faith doesn't mean you can't ask questions. For me it takes a lot of critical thinking to read bible and understand it. When I read parts of bible, I have to be able to put myself in that story line to understand what Jesus is trying to say. Sometimes I have to peel alot of my pride and selfishness to admit I've made mistakes in my life and how much that was sin and then also admit I was wrong.

Once you ask god to come in your life even with unanswerable questions lingering and doubts, amazing things will happen to you. Bible becomes reflection of what you are doing wrong and right. Human characters didn't change much at all from the time of Jesus. We are still tempted to be selfish and want to get out as much as possible in life with very little effort. Yeah, it's very easy not to believe in god but once you open your mine, it all make sense.

No materials in life fulfills you like Jesus.

p.s. I'm a new Christian and I'm loving it.

[likemclever]

Love has physiological sympt..... Wait... Are you coming on to me? :D

Damn...busted.... :D


So your saying it doesn't exist...it's just a figment of our imaganition.

[GHoSToKeR]

Nope, I know love exists. Most of us have experienced love to some degree, myself included. But the word love is just used to describe a whole range of emotions, from sexual attraction and companionship, to friendship and family ties. Certain types of love have certain phsyiological symptons also, such as dilation of your pupils, etc...

Faith, however, is just a belief. If one person claims that something does exist and the another claims that it doesn't, the person making the claim cannot use faith as an argument or to throw extra weight behind his or her argument. Faith, to put it simply, is an emotion. Nothing more. There is nothing supernatural about faith; it is literally one person's opinion, one person's belief. Somebody with faith in a certain thing can not have an objective opinion, because faith is the belief in the illogical, the unproven.

Faith can not be argued against, it can not be countered. But that does not mean it is irrefutable. Quite the opposite. A person's faith can be used to discredit their own argument because their faith proves their lack of understanding, of willingness to base their opinion on fact and logic.

That's what I meant.

[beachguy in thongs]

Okay, plain and simple. Everybody has faith. In something. Faith that they will take their next breath.

[andruejaysin]

I guess I could believe in God, in as much as this all came from somewhere, but I see no reason to believe the people who wrote the bible understand anymore than I do.

[ermitonto]

I don't see any evidence for anything whose existence cannot be proved by observation. I only believe in matter, spacetime, and energy (real energy that is, not the "spiritual energy" which is a really nebulous and immaterial idea that believers refuse to define for me). If something does exist that isn't detectable through some sort of experimental procedure, it must have no effect on my life and there's no point in speculating about it.

"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature." â??Frank Llyod Wright

[beachguy in thongs]

I told this bible-thumping chick that they need to come out with a sequel to the Bible and she was enraged.

[likemclever]

They did it's called the new testament.

[ermitonto]

And the Book of Mormon.

[likemclever]

Nope, I know love exists. Most of us have experienced love to some degree, myself included. But the word love is just used to describe a whole range of emotions, from sexual attraction and companionship, to friendship and family ties. Certain types of love have certain phsyiological symptons also, such as dilation of your pupils, etc...

Faith, however, is just a belief. If one person claims that something does exist and the another claims that it doesn't, the person making the claim cannot use faith as an argument or to throw extra weight behind his or her argument. Faith, to put it simply, is an emotion. Nothing more. There is nothing supernatural about faith; it is literally one person's opinion, one person's belief. Somebody with faith in a certain thing can not have an objective opinion, because faith is the belief in the illogical, the unproven.

Faith can not be argued against, it can not be countered. But that does not mean it is irrefutable. Quite the opposite. A person's faith can be used to discredit their own argument because their faith proves their lack of understanding, of willingness to base their opinion on fact and logic.

That's what I meant.


Faith is not used to prove anything to anybody....it's not extra weight.

Love can also not be argued against or countered.

how does faith prove lack of understanding????? your using that prove word again.

[GHoSToKeR]

Well take these lovely discussion we're having here... :p

You have one side saying "There is nothing that proves the existence of God, therefore, as far as we know, God doesn't exist". This is logical and makes all the sense in the world to me. Thn you have the other side saying "There is nothing that proves the existnce of God, but I have faith, therefore God does exist". This is completely illogical and makes no sense at all. Here faith is being used an argument for the existence of God. If the people saying this would just put their faith aside for a second and look at both sides of the argument equally they would come to the same conclusion as the first group of people, but they don't.

All faith is good for is making intelligent people look stupid.

[ermitonto]

Faith is, according to Webster's, firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Believing firmly in something for which there is no proof, like leprechauns, unicorns, perpetual motion machines, UFOs hiding behind comets, virgin births, or enslaved Jews in ancient Egypt, flies in the face of logic.

[sharpezor]

I am a Christian, and i would die for it. I am not brainwashed, crazy or stupid. I believe once Jesus is in your heart and you accept him, you just know hes watching over you and you are saved.

[likemclever]

All faith is good for is making intelligent people look stupid.

I hope that wasn't directed at me.....
:rolleyes:

To say that there is no evidence of the existence of God is not being quite fair.

Although we may disagree as to what constitutes evidence.

I believe I see overwhelming evidence everyday.

Ever hear of miracles....

[ermitonto]

I am a Christian, and i would die for it. I am not brainwashed, crazy or stupid. I believe once Jesus is in your heart and you accept him, you just know hes watching over you and you are saved.
Funny, I could have sworn I heard the same thing about Allah. And he would be a better bet for me than Jesus anyhow, considering the Bible says I can't ever be saved since I've blasphemed against the Holy Ghost before.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

But unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

[GHoSToKeR]

I hope that wasn't directed at me.....
:rolleyes:

To say that there is no evidence of the existence of God is not being quite fair.

Although we may disagree as to what constitutes evidence.

I believe I see overwhelming evidence everyday.

Ever hear of miracles....
Well no, it wasn't directed at you.. But I do find it strange and really frustrating how intelligent people such as yourself can believe in something that completely defies logic. But hey, to each his/her own.. :)

So what would you constitute as evidence?

[shavdbud]

evolution is proof enough 4 me..... + it just creeps me out 2 think that we are all imbread from just 2 people, but i dont see any problem with people believin in god if it makes their world easier 2 live in, its just not 4 me.

[ermitonto]

According to the Bible, incest propagated humanity not only once, but twice. Remember, there must have been a lot of sisterfucking after Noah's Flood too.

[GHoSToKeR]

I asked my mum about that, ermitonto, as she's Christian herself. Apparantly back then, before Adam and Eve were kicked out, there was no impurity in the world so when their children's children had children there was nothing out of the ordinary that you would get if that happened now. It's only because they sinned and introduced impurity to the human race that humans can't procreate with their relatives now.

I mean, what the fuck? Answers like that, whether they even make sense or not, must be total bullshit because nowhere in the bible does it go in to that. How do people know this stuff if the Bible doesn't say it?

[CocaCola]

I am a Christian, and i would die for it. I am not brainwashed, crazy or stupid. I believe once Jesus is in your heart and you accept him, you just know hes watching over you and you are saved.There is something in my heart, but it ain't Jesus. So what the hell is in my heart? :(

[CocaCola]

I hope that wasn't directed at me.....
:rolleyes:

To say that there is no evidence of the existence of God is not being quite fair.

Although we may disagree as to what constitutes evidence.

I believe I see overwhelming evidence everyday.

Ever hear of miracles....

Yes, because... of course... God created those... Miracles? Oh wait, I forgot... It might not be God... but insted, might be something called... I don't know... um... Chance? Life? I mean, why is it always GOD who did this and that? As far as I see, God hasn't proven anything about it's existence... nor has there been any proof. I mean, PROVE to me that God created these miracles or whatever.

[likemclever]

God doesn't owe you anything.....

[GHoSToKeR]

He owes me £5... He wanted to get a cheese burger and some papers but left his wallet at home.

[CocaCola]

WTF? I'm asking YOU to prove to me. Not God. I'd never ask that guy... He'd send me straight to hell!

And what is this about God and it not having to owe me anything? I guess we're all ignorant. But at least I'm realistic.

[likemclever]

Since when did this thread become about me prooving anything....to you princess... or anyone else for that matter.

[likemclever]

I donâ??t think people should accept anything at face value but I did find this site interestingâ?¦.so look it over if you likeâ?¦..if you donâ??t like or donâ??t careâ?¦than I donâ??t either.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

[CocaCola]

Right right, you have faith. So you don't need to prove anything... I was only asking but if you don't want to help convince me then fine. GOOD. I'm indifferent to Catholicism and it's many fallacies... so don't bother. And I know you won't... and I appreciate that. I hate it when people try and impose their beliefs on me, telling me that I'll be a better person if I take Christ into my heart.

(Catholics, from what I've experienced, are very fond of doing this.)

EDIT: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

Now this site and all of those questions asked, is further proof to me that God isn't an entity; but God is the force that "runs" the universe... It is what drives us humans (faith) and is the energy that controls nature and everything around us. People always refer to God as a person or something... I believe it is just... everything.

[likemclever]

Did you check out the link....or are you just going to flap your gums.

I'm not Catholic you fucking idiot.

You started talking to me...I havenâ??t imposed shit on you.

You heart is to black for Christ to live there.

Don't tangle with me if you can't be respectful.

[CocaCola]

Did you check out the link....or are you just going to flap your gums.
I checked it, you moron. It's a bunch of questions asked by people... and then they are told why they are wrong and how God is right. Yeah yeah yeah, whatever.


I'm not Catholic you fucking idiot.
I never said you were, you complete douchebag.


You started talking to me...I havenâ??t imposed shit on you.
I never said you did, you stupid fucking idiot.


You heart is to black for Christ to live there.
Christ can go suck a cock. Sorry.


Don't tangle with me if you can't be respectful.
When, in my last two posts in this thread, was I disrespecful to you?

In closing... you're an idiot. Or better yet. A pod. This is why I don't want that fag in my heart... so that I don't turn into a drone.

[likemclever]

Now this site and all of those questions asked, is further proof to me that God isn't an entity; but God is the force that "runs" the universe...

"force" and "entity" are the same fucking thing used in this context.

I never said God was a person...

If your going try and argure your point.....its best to decide first what your point is.

[CocaCola]

I never said that you said God was a person. Fucking wake up and smell the coffee... it was a general statement, so to speak. NOT JUST FOR YOU.

And by force I meant, energy. Is that more understandable for you? Do YOU even have a point with that last post? Take your context and shove it up your ass...

[likemclever]

Ok now it all makes sense.......how old are you....?

I'm not wasting my time arguing with someone elses child.

You are so closed minded.

I never asked you to belive anything. I told you what I belive.

[CocaCola]

You never asked me to believe in anything. Right.
You told me what you believe. Wrong. You told someone else.
I told you what I believe, and what I believe is that everything you said is bullshit. Is there a problem? Why am I closed minded, because I choose not to believe what you believe? What an ignorant jackass.

[likemclever]

I could really care less what you believe....

[CocaCola]

You are clearly not understanding faith....

you are asking for proof in order to have faith....

Buy definition thatâ??s not how faith works.


Like I said I don't think we are getting the whole story but I believe the books basics principles to be true.

And I believe that the book has been divinely inspired.


it might be the wrong room but who cares, its about god, i want to know who believes in god and jesus, i personally do with all my heart, and i hope others are that fortunate, but for all of you who are not, i hope you see the light and turn your beliefs around, i hope to see some feedback.

These two guys are suffering from Devout Christian Ignoramus Disorder.

What happens when a christian and a "non-believer" goes into debate about the existence of God? Well, the christian states that he believes in God and Jesus with all of his heart and that others should open their eyes and see the light. Then the non-believer states that he doesn't believe in God or Jesus and that anyone who does is a pod blinded by this false belief that one will be judged when one dies and one should have faith that God will make the right judgement with one's spirit. Or whatever. Then, with a big fat mile, the christian says "Well, you believe what you want to believe". Like what the other guy believes is wrong? "Yeah? Well, what if I told you what I thought of YOUR beliefs, mister?" YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE! AHAHAHA~!


I could really care less what you believe....
And I don't give a rats ass what you believe? So what's your point?

[ermitonto]

"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise ... without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantasms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence." â??Thomas Jefferson
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/jefferson.htm

[likemclever]

I'm not a Mr. and your making me tired goodnight.

[CocaCola]

Night. EDIT: And once again, for christ sakes!... DID I CALL YOU MISTER? NO.

And just to be clear... Melton420, I really am sorry for calling you ignorant, but you could have done without that bit about us "turning our believes around". Sorry.

[ermitonto]

These two guys are suffering from Devout Christian Ignoramus Disorder.

What happens when a christian and a "non-believer" goes into debate about the existence of God? Well, the christian states that he believes in God and Jesus with all of his heart and that others should open their eyes and see the light. Then the non-believer states that he doesn't believe in God or Jesus and that anyone who does is a pod blinded by this false belief that one will be judged when one dies and one should have faith that God will make the right judgement with one's spirit. Or whatever. Then, with a big fat mile, the christian says "Well, you believe what you want to believe". Like what the other guy believes is wrong? "Yeah? Well, what if I told you what I thought of YOUR beliefs, mister?" YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE! AHAHAHA~!
Such is the double standard that the Christian likes to believe in. The Christian only believes it is right to spread their beliefs in God and Jesus far and wide, to bring "The Word" to every man, woman and child on the face of the Earth. But when somebody tries to publicly defend atheism, they see it as a mean-spirited and unjustified attack on their beliefs, when in reality it is no different from their "attacks" against atheism. As if Christian mythology is supposed to be some sort of untouchable subject and it's a crime to offend believers in it, but it's perfectly fine to offend the beliefs of non-Christians by telling us aaaall about why we should believe in Jesus and God and blah blah blah (that is, until they can't provide any evidence whatsoever that we should, when they either give up trying to convert us or burn us at a stake).

[CocaCola]

You're right. It's all retarded. THIS IS WHY I DON'T GET INTO RELIGIOUS DEBATES PEOPLE!1

[beachguy in thongs]

You're right. It's all retarded. THIS IS WHY I DON'T GET INTO RELIGIOUS DEBATES PEOPLE!1

Do you think retarded people make their own decision on Pot, I mean, God?

[CocaCola]

Do I think retarded people make thier own decision on Pot? uhh... yes. Yeah, I do.

[Melton420]

yea let people believe in what they want, just because you think your all high and mighty, "ohh i dont believe in god im a big powerful man" no actually your not. get off it man.

[CocaCola]

LOL! I could just imagine someone actually saying that. I'm very touchy on the subject, I'm sorry! I know all that... but it's the internet. I can't help it if seem confrontational and opinionated and all huruff. But I didn't mean to come off so strong... :D

[Melton420]

its ok, forgive to forget right?

[beachguy in thongs]

Do I think retarded people make thier own decision on Pot? uhh... yes. Yeah, I do. LOL

[CocaCola]

It's all good, man. And sorry dudes, for the bullshit.

[beachguy in thongs]

You have to have respect for someone who constantly answers to people's lashes.

[Torog]

Howdy Melton,

I believe in God and Jesus Christ.

I also think that many of the young folks replying to this thread,the ones that don't believe in God and His Son,Jesus Christ,simply don't have the experiences of Life to make them aware of God's presence..many things that I have experienced,can only be explained by the power of God and I have witnessed the power of prayer,as well. God often provides what we need..and not so often,what we want. Becoming a parent,usually changes one for the better and much is experienced that causes a person to grow up,as well as belief in God and the miracle of a child. I believe that I know the moment of conception for my daughter,it was different from any other time my wife and I made love..it was as though something greater than myself was at work..that moment was and is,still seared into my mind.

I have talked with several folks,who've had near death experiences..they all report that they felt and saw God,some report that God came to them as a Mother God..none of them wanted to return to the mortal world because of the joy they felt,but each was told-it is not yet their time..and that God still had work for them to do.

God has humbled me several times..I have lived on the streets and each time,I rose up from that dark place,by surrendering myself to God and being a humble and grateful servant..I have cast aside my desire for material wealth and have come to know,that true wealth is love and giving love in return..in that regard...I'm a very wealthy man indeed.

Someday..God will call me home..and I'll see some of y'all on the other side..and say "I told ya so !".

Have a good one !

[likemclever]

Do I think retarded people make thier own decision on Pot? uhh... yes. Yeah, I do.


LOL....well thats just classic isn't it.

you might want to re-read that......

[F L E S H]

Howdy Melton,

I believe in God and Jesus Christ.

I also think that many of the young folks replying to this thread,the ones that don't believe in God and His Son,Jesus Christ,simply don't have the experiences of Life to make them aware of God's presence..many things that I have experienced,can only be explained by the power of God and I have witnessed the power of prayer,as well. God often provides what we need..and not so often,what we want. Becoming a parent,usually changes one for the better and much is experienced that causes a person to grow up,as well as belief in God and the miracle of a child. I believe that I know the moment of conception for my daughter,it was different from any other time my wife and I made love..it was as though something greater than myself was at work..that moment was and is,still seared into my mind.

I have talked with several folks,who've had near death experiences..they all report that they felt and saw God,some report that God came to them as a Mother God..none of them wanted to return to the mortal world because of the joy they felt,but each was told-it is not yet their time..and that God still had work for them to do.

God has humbled me several times..I have lived on the streets and each time,I rose up from that dark place,by surrendering myself to God and being a humble and grateful servant..I have cast aside my desire for material wealth and have come to know,that true wealth is love and giving love in return..in that regard...I'm a very wealthy man indeed.

Someday..God will call me home..and I'll see some of y'all on the other side..and say "I told ya so !".

Have a good one !
There you go being all patronizing againd... :D

Don't say people like haven't had important life experiences. I'm only 25, but I've been through a lot, I've seen quite a bit too. The lens through which you view your life is already colored by Christianity, so you'll see God in anything out of the ordinary. Me, I don't need God when I have powerful human beings who care for me. I don't need God because there's nothing I fear that's insurmountable. I think everyone who believes in God so strongly must be deeply afraid of something else, be it death, sickness, hunger, misery, etc. Christians say those afflictions are caused by Satan, I say they're caused by failures of humanity, and that Satan is just everybody's favorite scapegoat. Thus the fear of Satan will make one run towards God with open arms.

I don't need God anymore because I believe in myself, in what my mind can achieve, in a positive mindset, in the potential of humanity to surmount any ill. We dno't need God anymore. Oh how right was Nietzsche when he said, "God is dead."

[beachguy in thongs]

There you go being all patronizing againd... :D

Don't say people like haven't had important life experiences. I'm only 25, but I've been through a lot, I've seen quite a bit too. The lens through which you view your life is already colored by Christianity, so you'll see God in anything out of the ordinary. Me, I don't need God when I have powerful human beings who care for me. I don't need God because there's nothing I fear that's insurmountable. I think everyone who believes in God so strongly must be deeply afraid of something else, be it death, sickness, hunger, misery, etc. Christians say those afflictions are caused by Satan, I say they're caused by failures of humanity, and that Satan is just everybody's favorite scapegoat. Thus the fear of Satan will make one run towards God with open arms.

I don't need God anymore because I believe in myself, in what my mind can achieve, in a positive mindset, in the potential of humanity to surmount any ill. We dno't need God anymore. Oh how right was Nietzsche when he said, "God is dead."

Just to mention, you'll never know when you'll need someone's help, other than powerful human beings. The reason I believe in God, is not because I fear death. I have been through death. And that's what made me believe. God saved me after a week that doesn't even exist in my memory, except for one moment, late at night, when I was on my mattress-on-the-floor, trying to go to sleep, and saw a roach. I walked out of my room and told my roommate, who was sleeping on a couch, that I was sleeping in our other roommates room, who just moved out. He said, "No, why do you think he slept in his closet?" I was confirmed Catholic and then lost my faith, in God, after confirmation. You can't prove God.

And a note to Nietzsche, "Your God".

[F L E S H]

Just to mention, you'll never know when you'll need someone's help, other than powerful human beings. The reason I believe in God, is not because I fear death. I have been through death. And that's what made me believe. God saved me after a week that doesn't even exist in my memory, except for one moment, late at night, when I was on my mattress-on-the-floor, trying to go to sleep, and saw a roach. I walked out of my room and told my roommate, who was sleeping on a couch, that I was sleeping in our other roommates room, who just moved out. He said, "No, why do you think he slept in his closet?" I was confirmed Catholic and then lost my faith, in God, after confirmation. You can't prove God.

And a note to Nietzsche, "Your God".
That must be the wierdest thing I've ever read... Cheers!

[GHoSToKeR]

Ya, I didn't understand it at all.

[meloncoly]

"i hope you see the light and turn your beliefs around"

wow how about you go fuck yourself Melton420? preaching stuff you have no evidence for, and have been TOLD by other people, probably your parents, you disillusioned cock

[beachguy in thongs]

That must be the wierdest thing I've ever read... Cheers!

This is weirder: I still remember a four-part dream from when I was 12, but I can only remember three dreams in the past 11 years.

[CocaCola]

LOL....well thats just classic isn't it.

you might want to re-read that......

Shit, would I?

[F L E S H]

This is weirder: I still remember a four-part dream from when I was 12, but I can only remember three dreams in the past 11 years.
That is wierd, but at least the sentence made sense... :D

[Torog]

There you go being all patronizing againd... :D

Don't say people like haven't had important life experiences. I'm only 25, but I've been through a lot, I've seen quite a bit too. The lens through which you view your life is already colored by Christianity, so you'll see God in anything out of the ordinary. Me, I don't need God when I have powerful human beings who care for me. I don't need God because there's nothing I fear that's insurmountable. I think everyone who believes in God so strongly must be deeply afraid of something else, be it death, sickness, hunger, misery, etc. Christians say those afflictions are caused by Satan, I say they're caused by failures of humanity, and that Satan is just everybody's favorite scapegoat. Thus the fear of Satan will make one run towards God with open arms.

I don't need God anymore because I believe in myself, in what my mind can achieve, in a positive mindset, in the potential of humanity to surmount any ill. We dno't need God anymore. Oh how right was Nietzsche when he said, "God is dead."
Howdy FLESH,

Maybe I am being patronizing,but tell me this..are you a parent ? If you ain't a parent,then there's a whole side of Life that you are missing out on. Being a parent,requires one to learn selflessness and how to nurture others than just yerself.

I tell you what-I ain't never heard anyone say that they don't need God..because there are powerful human beings lookin out for em..I would never entrust my care to another human,I was raised to rely on myself and no one else..I would never fool myself into believeing for even a moment-that relying on an imperfect human..is ever a good thing.

We all need God now more than ever..and He/She,is alive and well..and always will be..and so is Jesus Christ. I have no reason to fear death or satan,as long as I give myself to God and Jesus Christ..while I do fear the Wrath of God..I don't come to God,out of fear..I know that God loves me,just as God loves us all,including you..oh errant lamb..I trust God to take care of me..not some imperfect sinner..no matter how powerful they may be,they are nothing in the face of God's Power.

Have a good one ....

[GHoSToKeR]

Morning, Torog!

I hope you don't mind me replying to your post on F L E S H's behalf.. I hope F L E S H doesn't mind, either! lol

You say the reason alot of us don't believe in God is because we dion't have the life experience to do so. This doesn't make sense to me, as there are millions of children and young adults all over the world who do believe in God. Surely they don't have the life experience to believe in God yet, and therefore any decision on the subject that they have made was not made by them but by persuasion from another source, such as a parent or guardian? If we're too young to make the decision then they should be too.

Okay, how about this? How about nobody can make any decision regarding religion until they're at least 25? 30? How old do you have to be to decide whether you believe in something or not?

I was raised Christian. I've studied the Bible and I believed it. I believed in God. But it wasn't until I grew up and matured some that I was able to make my own decisions, my own conclusions.

I know that no matter what happens in my life i'm never going to blame God or thank God. If something bad happens that, well, shit happens. I don't live in fear of anything; when something bad happens the blame will go exactly where it should go. Likewise if something good happens in my life I will never thank anything or anyone other than the thing or person who causd it to happen. I won't thank God if I have a good life because it will be me who made that happen.

I find it extremely patronising when you say that i'm only an atheist because I don't have the life experience to believe in God. Likewise I could say that you only believe in God because you don't have the strength to live your life without a babysitter. But I would never say that because that's not what I believe. I believe that everybody needs something in their life to give them support; some people, like yourself, choose God and religion, whereas others, such as myself, do not.

Some people will just never believe in God; not because they're sinners, or because they're evil, not even because they haven't experienced life or God yet and not out of any mallicious intent. They just do not believe in God. It's that simple. I think it's foolish and ignorant of you to judge somebody based on that.

GHoST

[likemclever]

Morning, Torog!



you forgot to say have a good one....
:)

[GHoSToKeR]

Have a good one!

:D

[meloncoly]

bunch of bible-bashers, go pray to your false gods, like the rest of the world, because your god is the only true god! all the rest are false! yeah get a clue

[F L E S H]

Thanks for answering, GHoST :D


I tell you what-I ain't never heard anyone say that they don't need God..because there are powerful human beings lookin out for em..I would never entrust my care to another human,I was raised to rely on myself and no one else..
Remember when I said that I think that people who believe in God do so because they must be intensely afraid of something else? Well it seems that you're afraid of your fellow man, you're afraid to trust another human being. It probably explains your fear of muslims, of gays, of communists, of lefties in general, and of anybody outside of Texas. Why do you fear people, Torog? And what do you hope to gain by believing in God to make up for this fear? Do you think he'll just smite all the people YOU don't like?

[Breukelen advocaat]

THINKERS!
means:
Two Healthy Incomes, No Kids, Early Retirement

http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/1285/childfre.html

Religion is a gigantic fraud, causes numerous problems in the world, is anti-life, and an act of desperation by people conditioned by terror to not trust their own mind or instincts.

A message to the young people out there (especially guys): don't get trapped into having kids. Don't be a sucker. If a gal (or guy) that you date insists on breeding, cut 'em loose. I always did, and am extremely glad for it.
I am married, without children, and live according to the THINKER saying above: CHILDFREE and HAPPY!

[kuulbns]

Ya know,...I do happen to believe,.. okay? I don't rank on those that choose not to. I don't preach. Can we please refrain from some of the "religious people are brain dead, conspiracy following idiots" type of stuff. It's always nice to read others opinions, and I am certainly open to your points of view but, I am not an moron. ;)

[beachguy in thongs]

I'd assume he's talking about 'religious fanatics', whose life is to wake up and go to bed, the rest of the time, they are 95% brain dead.

[kuulbns]

Ah,.. okay ty,... just kinda made me cringe! lol

[likemclever]

THINKERS!
means:
Two Healthy Incomes, No Kids, Early Retirement

http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/1285/childfre.html

Religion is a gigantic fraud, causes numerous problems in the world, is anti-life, and an act of desperation by people conditioned by terror to not trust their own mind or instincts.

A message to the young people out there (especially guys): don't get trapped into having kids. Don't be a sucker. If a gal (or guy) that you date insists on breeding, cut 'em loose. I always did, and am extremely glad for it.
I am married, without children, and live according to the THINKER saying above: CHILDFREE and HAPPY!

To bad your parents didnâ??t feel the same wayâ?¦.

[Breukelen advocaat]

To bad your parents didnâ??t feel the same wayâ?¦.

That's a very popular comeback to the childfree stance, and the remark can be interpreted in various ways.

These times are very different times than the baby boom days. Back then, the average man could support a family consisting of his wife, a couple of kids, and himself. This is impossible today, for most families. The end result is that the families are burdened by having to provide TWO breadwinners, that still have even more responsibilities. In the cases of single parent households, it's harder than ever to survive.

[Ousted]

Howdy FLESH,

Maybe I am being patronizing,but tell me this..are you a parent ? If you ain't a parent,then there's a whole side of Life that you are missing out on. Being a parent,requires one to learn selflessness and how to nurture others than just yerself.

Being a parent doesn't prove or disprove anything about one's character nor does it reinforce that one has life-experience, or that one has learned to be selfless. Not being a parent doesn't discredit one's worldliness, character or ability to be selfless either. I can offer numerous examples if needed...but you're smart enough I dont think thats necessary. Lemme know if it is, however.



I tell you what-I ain't never heard anyone say that they don't need God..because there are powerful human beings lookin out for em..I would never entrust my care to another human,I was raised to rely on myself and no one else..I would never fool myself into believeing for even a moment-that relying on an imperfect human..is ever a good thing.

Thats a really sad position my friend, Christian or not. Man is fallible, but man is capable and has proven itself as a species extremely capable of great things. You see this everyday. Right in front of your eyes, everyday, proof of man's greatness is all around you. And you openly reject the greatness of man out of some bizarre loyalty to your faith, like the 2 thoughts cant co-exist.
If you dont allow yourself to trust your fellow man, and to appreciate your fellow man, you have a lonely, miserable life ahead of you. Sure you have that whole superiority thing to nurture that ego of yours from time to time, but you'll be alone and people wont like you. People dont like not being appreciated, and you being as open as you are with your disrespect of your fellow man's ability is incredibly unappealing, and those who hear your vocal disrespect will think of you as a contemptuous fool not worth being around.


We all need God now more than ever..and He/She,is alive and well..and always will be..and so is Jesus Christ.
Ok.


I have no reason to fear death or satan,as long as I give myself to God and Jesus Christ..while I do fear the Wrath of God..I don't come to God,out of fear..I know that God loves me,just as God loves us all,including you..oh errant lamb..I trust God to take care of me..not some imperfect sinner..no matter how powerful they may be,they are nothing in the face of God's Power.

Have a good one ....

And, like it seems to always end up being the case, it all really just boils down to this:

"My mind is at ease now that Ive found the Lord. I dont have those unanswered questions that have plagued man for centuries tormenting me and inconveniencing me anymore!! I am content because I have put my faith in something that is easier for me to swallow than if I had not. If Im wrong, I got nothing to lose, I'll be dead and it wont matter anyway. As long as I dont have to think real hard or worry while Im on this planet, the effort put into a faith that might just be a bunch of hogwash will be more than worth the time spent as long as I dont have that incessant fear of the unknown bothering me from time to time.
Bonus: I get a sense of superiority over others! Rock on!!!"

Fear-motivated and self-serving.

I swear religions were tailor-made to appeal to man's deep desire to feel important. I find it so hilarious and almost predictable that even with the possibility that God, Jesus, and the whole bit are a lie - its easier for people to accept a lie than the dreaded alternative of not having an answer.

[GHoSToKeR]

Nice post, Ousted. :)

[Ousted]

Nice post, Ousted. :)

hehe, ty. :o

[nomadherbman]

great post!

cant wait see what old man wisdom has to say...

"love thy neighbor"

[Melton420]

well I believe in God and JESUS and i believe i am ging to heaven, you guys think its all fake .. ok go ahead and think that no ones stopping but that dosent mean thrash my god, i mean what i believe dosent hurt you

[beachguy in thongs]

God and JESUS i believe i am ging to heaven, you guys (don't) thrash my god, i mean what i believe dosent hurt you

Way to go, Melton.

[meloncoly]

Melton420 if you insist on preaching your false gods, then we have a right to take the piss out of them. You are either under 15, or just a plain old inbred yank who believes anything he is told, as long as enough people say it

[Edgar]

If a single all-powerful creator/god exists, I want his/her/its head on a stake...

I dont believe there is any way to justify the suffering that occurs constantly.

[Torog]

Howdy Ousted,

You state the following things:



"Being a parent doesn't prove or disprove anything about one's character nor does it reinforce that one has life-experience, or that one has learned to be selfless. Not being a parent doesn't discredit one's worldliness, character or ability to be selfless either. I can offer numerous examples if needed...but you're smart enough I dont think thats necessary. Lemme know if it is, however."

You're just plain wrong..if all you do-is spend yer time and effort on looking out only for yerself,your character will be lacking..if the only one you spend yer paycheck on ,is yourself..then you are missing out on a whole slice of Life,your experience..is therefore less. It takes a really good person to have both good character and be single and berift of children,the folks in that situation are not as well-rounded as folks who've had children.

You go on to say:

"Thats a really sad position my friend, Christian or not. Man is fallible, but man is capable and has proven itself as a species extremely capable of great things. You see this everyday. Right in front of your eyes, everyday, proof of man's greatness is all around you. And you openly reject the greatness of man out of some bizarre loyalty to your faith, like the 2 thoughts cant co-exist.
If you dont allow yourself to trust your fellow man, and to appreciate your fellow man, you have a lonely, miserable life ahead of you. Sure you have that whole superiority thing to nurture that ego of yours from time to time, but you'll be alone and people wont like you. People dont like not being appreciated, and you being as open as you are with your disrespect of your fellow man's ability is incredibly unappealing, and those who hear your vocal disrespect will think of you as a contemptuous fool not worth being around."

Man is capable of greatness,because we were created in God's Image..we did not create God..God created us..it is foolish to place our trust in our fellow man,as no man is perfect..that don't make me 'superior' to anyone..it just means that I'm wise enough to realize that. Trust..but verify ! I ain't into being superior to others or feeding my ego,I seek humilty and denial of ego,and I thank God everyday,for my many blessings..when was the last time that you were grateful for anything ? I seek to raise others up-not bring em down..I'm an optimist-not a pessimist.

You go on to say:

"And, like it seems to always end up being the case, it all really just boils down to this:

"My mind is at ease now that Ive found the Lord. I dont have those unanswered questions that have plagued man for centuries tormenting me and inconveniencing me anymore!! I am content because I have put my faith in something that is easier for me to swallow than if I had not. If Im wrong, I got nothing to lose, I'll be dead and it wont matter anyway. As long as I dont have to think real hard or worry while Im on this planet, the effort put into a faith that might just be a bunch of hogwash will be more than worth the time spent as long as I dont have that incessant fear of the unknown bothering me from time to time.
Bonus: I get a sense of superiority over others! Rock on!!!"

Fear-motivated and self-serving.

I swear religions were tailor-made to appeal to man's deep desire to feel important. I find it so hilarious and almost predictable that even with the possibility that God, Jesus, and the whole bit are a lie - its easier for people to accept a lie than the dreaded alternative of not having an answer.
Being faithful to God,requires much more thinking and work,than being a self-serving humanist,I ain't a Christian because I wanted to stop thinking,rather,I seek the Truth and am interested and dedicated to my spiritual evolution..those who deny God,are the ones who've decided to stop thinking..and join the parade of debaucherers and sinners. Being a Christian,ain't about being superior to others,rather-it's about being humble and grateful.

Have a good one ...

[GHoSToKeR]

**yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawns**

Morning Torog, how's it going?

I was wondering.. In your eyes, or in the collective eyes of your religion, is it possible to not believe in God, or not be a Christian, but to still not be considered a sinner? It's just that alot of people, myself included, live a life free of what you would consider sins, but yet we would still be doomed to an eternity in Hell.

That doesn't seem fair at all. It tells me that God doesn't care how people behave, he just wants us all grovelling at his feet.. What kind of God is that?

OhI don't believe that people who worship a God have stopped thinking, I just think they're misinformed. Why is it that you have to insult us because we believe differently to you? I know people do it to you, but they're just being stupid and immature; do you have to lower yourself to that level and insult everyone who doesn't believe in a God by saying that they have "decided to stop thinking..and join the parade of debaucherers and sinners". That doesn't seem very fair either, Torog.

Peace and Parachutes

GHoST

[likemclever]

I would venture to guess that over ¾ of the worlds population believe in some type of God. (that number is probably greater)

So to say that people who believe in God are children or have just stopped thinking doesnâ??t quite pan out.

Iâ??m not asking anyone to believe in Godâ?¦..people are going to do as they choose.



I think believing in good encourages thoughtâ?¦â?¦if you donâ??t believe in Godâ?¦than you donâ??t waste your time thinking about the nature of God.

People should learn all they can about the word��intellectually and spiritually.

[GHoSToKeR]

Good morning, likemclever! :)

I never said that people who believe in God are children or have stopped thinking. In fact, I was defending myself and others because Torog said that people who don't believe in God are children or have stopped thinking.

And it is possible to believe in good without believing in God. :)

-GHoST-

[nomadherbman]

too many contradictions in religion.....

and to say we've stopped thinking is the biggest load of shit ive heard so far....we decided to think outside the box and not what everyone else thinks...we think what we believe not what we were told to believe.....and just because i dont beleive in religion and god doesnt mean im not constantly thinking of what there could be out there...

torog im going to take this opportunity to call you an arrogant self righteous old fart who is stuck on his old ways and refuses to open up his mind...i feel bad for your daughter because tho you smoke you must be a handful...

[ermitonto]

I have a hard time believing that an infinite, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, all-forgiving entity would need its ego boosted so desperately that anyone that refuses to boost his ego by worshipping him is punished forever, just because they failed to believe in something for which there is no conclusive proof.

[likemclever]

All Iâ??m saying isâ?¦. that people are spiritual beings. And to simply cross your arms and shake your head and say â??nope no Godâ?� so Iâ??m not even gonna think about it. Is a bit like cutting off your leg. While you can still have a happy productive life it somehow limits ones possibilities and potential.

Morning Gost....

and your sexy vibes last night sucked........ :rolleyes:

[GHoSToKeR]

All Iâ??m saying isâ?¦. that people are spiritual beings. And to simply cross your arms and shake your head and say â??nope no Godâ?� so Iâ??m not even gonna think about it. Is a bit like cutting off your leg. While you can still have a happy productive life it somehow limits ones possibilities and potential. Likewise I think that, in a universe that we know relatively nothing about, with endless possibilities and things we couldn't even imagine, to say "God is The Answer" and then to not even consider that there may even be other alternatives is exactly like cutting off your own leg. To quote you; ""While you can still have a happy productive life it somehow limits ones possibilities and potential". When we know so little about the universe in which we live I think it utterly foolish that you can even begin to think that you may know the beginnings of even a part of The Answer..... and if you do realise that the idea of God is just one possibility in an infinite sea of possibilities then why just stick with one Answer when it has just as much chance as every other Answer of being wrong? :)


and your sexy vibes last night sucked........ :rolleyes:
Hmm.. i'm sure there's an innuendo in there somewhere but I can't put my finger on it... :p

So why did they suck?

[Breukelen advocaat]

The mistaken notion that Christ is in favor of "nurturing" with regard to family life is negated with these verses:

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Mat 10:35

Luk 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. Luk 12:52

The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Luk 12:53

Sounds like a pretty dismal model for a happy family. There is nothing in the New Testament in support of family - it is all about instilling blind obedience to a fictitious, malevolent god through fear and ignorance.

[Ousted]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




You're just plain wrong..

I disagree. Its not about being right or wrong, its about being open. And believing you are some authority because you were able to reproduce is not open, its condescending and elitist.


if all you do-is spend yer time and effort on looking out only for yerself,your character will be lacking..if the only one you spend yer paycheck on ,is yourself..then you are missing out on a whole slice of Life,your experience..is therefore less. It takes a really good person to have both good character and be single and berift of children,the folks in that situation are not as well-rounded as folks who've had children.

Your world is coming off a little small.

I know a lot of caring, wonderful, selfless people who are not parents. And I know a lot of people that should have been sterilized that are. Becoming selfless and developing character is not a reward for reproducing. That comes from within, and takes years to skill. You dont need to have a child to develop those kinds of skills, and its presumptuous and narrow-minded and self-serving to believe you are an authority, you possess more character, more ability to love others, and therefore are better than people (well, a group of people) because you chose to have a child.

Children do not bring forth the gift of dignity. Thats a gift you give yourself, and you dont need a child in order to recieve it. Sure a child may be a great encouragement to get yourself in check, but that definitely isnt a guarantee like you seemingly believe.


Man is capable of greatness,because we were created in God's Image..we did not create God..God created us..it is foolish to place our trust in our fellow man,as no man is perfect..that don't make me 'superior' to anyone..it just means that I'm wise enough to realize that. Trust..but verify ! I ain't into being superior to others or feeding my ego,I seek humilty and denial of ego,and I thank God everyday,for my many blessings..when was the last time that you were grateful for anything ? I seek to raise others up-not bring em down..I'm an optimist-not a pessimist.

And I live my life the exact same way...except the not trusting man and the God business. Faith in God is not a prerequisite for being a good, humble person. Assumptions that those of us who are non-believers are not gracious or grateful for what we have is like saying your enlightenment you have recieved in life has more value over others enlightenment which may not involve the typical "found Jesus" scenerio. I understand you believe that the road to Jesus is the road to humility and grace, but understand that others dont necessarily feel that way, and speaking for myself I dont appreciate people attempting to take away my value as a person, my personal sense of dignity, my self-respect, and my ability to be humble, gracious, and selfless because I dont believe what they do.



Being faithful to God,requires much more thinking and work,than being a self-serving humanist,

Well, thats just a matter of opinion, obivously our opinions differ, however I know there are many believers out there who are incredibly thoughtful, loving, caring people who people should really strive to be like. Being a good person is not easy, being a person with self-respect and character and honesty is not easy. Religion can definitely make an impact on people for the better, Im not denying that. But, that said, it can also make people condescending, elitist, and disrespectful of others. I understand people are sucummbing to natural human behavior in that aspect, but it makes for a bad name for people of faith, and not something I would wish to be a part of. So when I see someone exhibiting those bad behaviors because they seemingly feel they have an authority to do so because of their faith, it really makes my skin crawl...and I want to shake them.


I ain't a Christian because I wanted to stop thinking,rather,I seek the Truth and am interested and dedicated to my spiritual evolution..those who deny God,are the ones who've decided to stop thinking..and join the parade of debaucherers and sinners. Being a Christian,ain't about being superior to others,rather-it's about being humble and grateful.

I do believe that that being humble and grateful is exactly what being a christian is all about. The church can really help people get the tools they need to be successful and feel confident and have self-worth...tools that every person needs, really. There is no denying that, and that is a positive in the church that should be promoted more.
Saying things that sound fear-motivated and self-serving however is repellant. It puts those that aren't believers on the defensive, rather than willing to embrace your beliefs.

As far as who's faith makes 'em think the hardest, I do find it difficult that embracing the Bible would require much thinking, like Ghost said, "outside the box." Although embracing something that most can agree lacks logic probably constitutes as thinking outside the box.
For all I know you may have studied every possibility out there and embraced the one that made the most sense and works the best for you. Bravo to you if you really did take the time to explore all possibilities. Im still exploring and am not ready to hang my hat on one belief sytem as of yet, but Im pretty positive at this point that the bible and jesus God isn't going to be it. Im not willing to devote my life towards a belief that doesn't make sense to me. And so my goal is to strive searching for beliefs and ideas that do.
As sad as it is that this happens, you know as well as I do that many people latch onto Christianity without exploring the alternatives, and then have the audacity to condemn those who believe differently than they do when they lack education of other beliefs. Thats what I mean by not thinking. When you pick one belief without really putting much effort into exploring others, you have pretty much hung up your critical thinking cap and accepted what you have been offered as truth and just went with it. That to me is not a deep thinker. Like I said, that may not be you, and if its not you I do apologize for insinuating that you are not a thinker. :)

[GHoSToKeR]

**wonders if he accidently stumbled in to the Politics board**

[GHoSToKeR]

Hey Torog,

I wonder.. if man is only capable of greatness because God created man in his image, then surely even the Original Sin by Eve was something from God's nature that he put in to us? Using your logic man is only imperfect because God is imperfect.

If this is not the case and man has developed impurity and imperfection himself than surely it goes to follow that not all man's traits are given to us by God? Of course there is no way to discern between which of our characteristics are God given and which developed themselves over time.

Using your own logic, it is just as plausable that God is in fact imperfect and we only inherited that imperfection from him, and that any greatness man is capable of is, for want of a better term, man made.

What do you say?

GHoST

[mrdevious]

And to simply cross your arms and shake your head and say â??nope no Godâ?� so Iâ??m not even gonna think about it.

Most people who don't believe in god, like myself, got there not by saying "no, I'm not believing and not thinking about it", we got there because we analysed all these claims about god and just couldn't find any conclusive evidence or logical explanation for these outrageous claims. The whole concept of faith is basically to convince the public that you're a good person and will be rewarded for eternity if you just believe and don't ask why. think about it, say we have no religion and I say "look, if you just quit asking questions and believe me, I'll give you eternal bliss. oh... yeah, and if you dont', I'll torment you forever and ever". if I used such an explanation for any other aspect of reality, people would laugh at me. it's only when we can escape such an environment and learn how to think outside the conditioning that we see past the lies.

[Ousted]

Most people who don't believe in god, like myself, got there not by saying "no, I'm not believing and not thinking about it", we got there because we analysed all these claims about god and just couldn't find any conclusive evidence or logical explanation for these outrageous claims. The whole concept of faith is basically to convince the public that you're a good person and will be rewarded for eternity if you just believe and don't ask why. think about it, say we have no religion and I say "look, if you just quit asking questions and believe me, I'll give you eternal bliss. oh... yeah, and if you dont', I'll torment you forever and ever". if I used such an explanation for any other aspect of reality, people would laugh at me. it's only when we can escape such an environment and learn how to think outside the conditioning that we see past the lies.

I completely agree. Sure there are those that openly reject God and/or religion mainly to get a rise out of people, as its a subject that people are passionate about whether they believe or they dont. Those kinds of people aren't difficult to spot, however, and really aren't worth anyone's precious time, so no sense arguing with them.
But from my experience talking with people, those that lean more towards science and atheism aren't at that point as an act of rebellion - they're at that point because Christianity is a very difficult faith to fully believe in and devote yourself to given that a lot of the ideas are outdated, there's a lot of holes and unanswered questions, and a lot of blind faith.
If I had the choice between there being a God and there being no God, I sure as shit would pick there to be a God. God and heaven sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me, the feeling that you're taken care of and that if no one else in this world loves you, at least he will. If your life sucks someday when you're dead and in heaven it won't no more, you always have that heaven-thing to look forward if nothing else. Its a very comforting idea. But I remind myself that if it weren't comforting, if there wasn't something in it for us...religion would not work, and thats where I feel the scam comes in:

Christianity appeals to man's sense of importance, it reassures him that he is more than he seems, that he'll be taken care of throughout eternity, that his life wont just end, that his life isnt just that - a life that was lived until death. He'll keep on mattering. Its a really reassuring, comforting, nurturing theory. By manipulating people's fears and emotions you can shape and change people to think and believe the things you do and preach the ideas you preach as long as that promise of security and eternal bliss is reassured to them from time to time for their faith.

And what better way to encourage the skeptics and unbelievers to accept your ideas and preach your ideas then to scare them into burning in hell for eternity if they reject them? The age-old "Well, if Im wrong, at least I wont burn in hell like you if your wrong" is, imo, the rationale of fearful, manipulated individuals.

[Ousted]

One more thing I wanted to add:

I saw on a tv show some time back this lady who was a producer or director or something for infomercials. In the interview she said her main job is to get one point across during an infomercial: "This will change your life."
If that point is effectively communicated and reinforced throughout the program they will get big sales.

They also run infomercials in the wee hours because they are more likely to get depressed, vulnerable people filled with desperation at those hours and are more apt to purchase something that will "change their life."

I see this as pretty parallel to congregations. They make claims that your life will be changed for the better and they witness to those that are vulnerable and in desperation, and encourage you to "witness" to those that are vulnerable and in desperate times because they supposedly "need the Lord the most right now." When really they're just vulnerable, and ripe for the picking.

[Torog]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I disagree. Its not about being right or wrong, its about being open. And believing you are some authority because you were able to reproduce is not open, its condescending and elitist.



Your world is coming off a little small.

I know a lot of caring, wonderful, selfless people who are not parents. And I know a lot of people that should have been sterilized that are. Becoming selfless and developing character is not a reward for reproducing. That comes from within, and takes years to skill. You dont need to have a child to develop those kinds of skills, and its presumptuous and narrow-minded and self-serving to believe you are an authority, you possess more character, more ability to love others, and therefore are better than people (well, a group of people) because you chose to have a child.

Children do not bring forth the gift of dignity. Thats a gift you give yourself, and you dont need a child in order to recieve it. Sure a child may be a great encouragement to get yourself in check, but that definitely isnt a guarantee like you seemingly believe.



And I live my life the exact same way...except the not trusting man and the God business. Faith in God is not a prerequisite for being a good, humble person. Assumptions that those of us who are non-believers are not gracious or grateful for what we have is like saying your enlightenment you have recieved in life has more value over others enlightenment which may not involve the typical "found Jesus" scenerio. I understand you believe that the road to Jesus is the road to humility and grace, but understand that others dont necessarily feel that way, and speaking for myself I dont appreciate people attempting to take away my value as a person, my personal sense of dignity, my self-respect, and my ability to be humble, gracious, and selfless because I dont believe what they do.




Well, thats just a matter of opinion, obivously our opinions differ, however I know there are many believers out there who are incredibly thoughtful, loving, caring people who people should really strive to be like. Being a good person is not easy, being a person with self-respect and character and honesty is not easy. Religion can definitely make an impact on people for the better, Im not denying that. But, that said, it can also make people condescending, elitist, and disrespectful of others. I understand people are sucummbing to natural human behavior in that aspect, but it makes for a bad name for people of faith, and not something I would wish to be a part of. So when I see someone exhibiting those bad behaviors because they seemingly feel they have an authority to do so because of their faith, it really makes my skin crawl...and I want to shake them.



I do believe that that being humble and grateful is exactly what being a christian is all about. The church can really help people get the tools they need to be successful and feel confident and have self-worth...tools that every person needs, really. There is no denying that, and that is a positive in the church that should be promoted more.
Saying things that sound fear-motivated and self-serving however is repellant. It puts those that aren't believers on the defensive, rather than willing to embrace your beliefs.

As far as who's faith makes 'em think the hardest, I do find it difficult that embracing the Bible would require much thinking, like Ghost said, "outside the box." Although embracing something that most can agree lacks logic probably constitutes as thinking outside the box.
For all I know you may have studied every possibility out there and embraced the one that made the most sense and works the best for you. Bravo to you if you really did take the time to explore all possibilities. Im still exploring and am not ready to hang my hat on one belief sytem as of yet, but Im pretty positive at this point that the bible and jesus God isn't going to be it. Im not willing to devote my life towards a belief that doesn't make sense to me. And so my goal is to strive searching for beliefs and ideas that do.
As sad as it is that this happens, you know as well as I do that many people latch onto Christianity without exploring the alternatives, and then have the audacity to condemn those who believe differently than they do when they lack education of other beliefs. Thats what I mean by not thinking. When you pick one belief without really putting much effort into exploring others, you have pretty much hung up your critical thinking cap and accepted what you have been offered as truth and just went with it. That to me is not a deep thinker. Like I said, that may not be you, and if its not you I do apologize for insinuating that you are not a thinker. :)
Howdy Ousted,

I reckon that I understand where yer coming from,Ousted..it's just that amongst us parents,we like to say "You ain't really lived yet,till ya have children..". I also find it hard to trust folks who haven't worked hard with their hands and back,they ain't lived yet,either..if ya haven't paid yer dues in blood,sweat and tears..how is it that you've lived ?

There ain't any motivation or reason,coming from the Left and the God-less,to be a moral person of good character..where is the compulsion to do so ? Doing such,is politically-incorrect and considered square and boring. I just don't see any reason or compulsion,for a secular humanist,metrosexual to be of good character..you don't git invited to them city-slicker parties for being a good and moral person.

I was raised up a Christian,in a very conservative congregation,but as I grew older,I did check into the other religions and found them all to be lacking. I don't like fancy dressing,snobby Christians,either and I don't believe in big fancy churches that ain't designed to serve a practical role in the community..and I don't believe in closing myself off from the faithless and God-less,because I believe that God sends us messages from even the afore-mentioned..so,to that end..it behooves me to listen to such folks. They will never shake my Faith,however,but instead..serve to re-enforce it.

Thanx for yer apology,I appreciate it,apologies are few and far between,on these here boards. I realize that it seems as though I have stopped thinking,but I ain't .. I try to remain open to new ideas..like the idea of a Mother God,for instance.

Have a good one ...

[GHoSToKeR]

Hey Torog, Answer the question man! lol :p


Hey Torog,

I wonder.. if man is only capable of greatness because God created man in his image, then surely even the Original Sin by Eve was something from God's nature that he put in to us? Using your logic man is only imperfect because God is imperfect.

If this is not the case and man has developed impurity and imperfection himself than surely it goes to follow that not all man's traits are given to us by God? Of course there is no way to discern between which of our characteristics are God given and which developed themselves over time.

Using your own logic, it is just as plausable that God is in fact imperfect and we only inherited that imperfection from him, and that any greatness man is capable of is, for want of a better term, man made.

What do you say?

GHoST

[Dopenologist]

I believe in God and Jesus as a prophet only not as his son.

[Ousted]

I also find it hard to trust folks who haven't worked hard with their hands and back,they ain't lived yet,either..if ya haven't paid yer dues in blood,sweat and tears..how is it that you've lived ?

Im sure the people that have jumped out of airplanes or rock climb, or winter in Europe, or Tango, or rescue animals and feed the hungry, or gone to college, or seen the Stones all believe that those who haven't done what they believe is important - haven't lived. It's human nature in action: believing you are better (in this case, have lived more) than others for one reason or another, so therefore reinforcing how great you find yourself to be.
I hope this makes sense.



There ain't any motivation or reason,coming from the Left and the God-less,to be a moral person of good character..where is the compulsion to do so ?

I love it when people make this point, lol.

There is plenty of motivation and plenty of reason to be moral and develop and respect your character. For one thing, I treasure my time on this planet and I want to have a great time while Im here. Being a dick to people, being uncaring and selfish does me no favors and makes me no friends. Im not patiently waiting for my eternal bliss to come after Im dead, I am creating it while Im here. Having a nice life and pleasant interaction with others is plenty of motivation.

I do find it insulting that believers think that morality or any desire to be a good person would have to have God involved. I understand in your faith those that arent believers are considered to be consumed by the secular world, plotting against you to get you all to come to the dark side, that we IM with the devil and shit. Or at the very least are consumed by pornography, drugs, alcohol, language, lies, hate, etc etc.
For the most part, not true thats just not true. If people were naturally careless and unloving, and uncaring our species would have died out a long time ago. We know how difficult it is to work together just as we are, imagine if we all were as bad as the churchs try to make us out to be.
We are good people because thats what works. You dont just get a pay off for being a good person in the afterlife, you get payoffs for being a good person here.

Also, those that church and those that dont are exactly the same! Same feelings, same emotions, same problems. People want to do good, people want appreciation, thats something we instinctively desire - its not something thats just discovered in our being when you have taken the Lord into your heart. Thats just yet another way the church manipulates people to believe that they are better than others.


Doing such,is politically-incorrect and considered square and boring.

Uh...what? Being a decent person with character is considered square and boring? It's been a long time since Porky's came out... ;)

lol, "square"


I just don't see any reason or compulsion,for a secular humanist,metrosexual to be of good character.

Then, Im sorry to say, you just dont see things very clearly.


.you don't git invited to them city-slicker parties for being a good and moral person.

I've been invited to parties a lot, and Im very moral and I think most would agree Im a good person.
I would look for another reason why you or your church friends may not be getting invited...like maybe you're judgemental, or find yourself to be superior, perhaps? Its not like people sit around and go "nah, cant invite him man, he's an upstanding citizen with good morals and a nice yard." Its either "do we like em, or dont we?" And knowing what I know about people, being judgemental(like passing judgement if they're drinking or smoking or swearing or something) and finding others inferior will definitely put you on the "not invited" list.


I was raised up a Christian,in a very conservative congregation,but as I grew older,I did check into the other religions and found them all to be lacking. I don't like fancy dressing,snobby Christians,either and I don't believe in big fancy churches that ain't designed to serve a practical role in the community..and I don't believe in closing myself off from the faithless and God-less,because I believe that God sends us messages from even the afore-mentioned..so,to that end..it behooves me to listen to such folks. They will never shake my Faith,however,but instead..serve to re-enforce it.


Well, nobody should decide for you, only you can decide whats best for you, and its great to hear that you are in the drivers seat in that regard when it comes to secular influences. I just ask that you also be in the drivers seat when sitting in church.



Thanx for yer apology,I appreciate it,apologies are few and far between,on these here boards. I realize that it seems as though I have stopped thinking,but I ain't .. I try to remain open to new ideas..like the idea of a Mother God,for instance.

Have a good one ...

You too, Torog. :)

[oldhag]

You none believer or think religion is man made, love to suck the energy off believer and also who are seeking spirital experience. I know b/c my husband who is disfranchised catholic who sunk my wanting to find god. The argument sounds pretty good for not to believe in god. Just like everything else there are christians who do not follow the way of bible and choose to pick what they want and abuse the bible. You none believer will be surrounded by none believer as you get older and will not find heaven on earth either. Anyway how are some of you who belive in heaven on earth find your heaven. Oh yeah, toys and toys which you will be slave to work to pay them off. Material things will give you happiness at the moment you buy then you want to buy something else to fulfill the empty spot in your life. Bible is pretty straight forward if you decide to read, be a good person and help others and be a good child to your parents. Bible is a good guide line to live your life. I wish I read bible earlier. Also there are many different types of bible. Most people like to read NIV (new international version) I just bought study bible of NIV and like the detailed explaination of somethings I don't understand.

[oldhag]

Adults who post against christ should be careful what they write b/c there are alot of young teens who do not have good stable home and are looking for a good guidance. Teens think getting stone is cool and will listen to other older stoner and believe in you without thinking through. A good christians will go out of there way to help kids who need emotional needs. There are about lots things written about bad and good people but nothing bad that you can learn from it. It's classic to the people who want to live honest good life.

[grabthegrave]

i wsa sippen syrup (dxm) and smokin some good shit and i swear i saw the future. it was crazy but ya. ne ways i dont beleave in christianity, i myself am a rastafarian, even though im white. haha. i smoke to get closer to Jah. same thing as god but differint. haha. so ya thats me. and the future 666 is comin if u dont beleave in a god, ur goin to be the ones killin everyone. my firend is goin to try to get met to go some kind of drug that will kill me the first and only time i try. so ya. peace

[beachguy in thongs]

i wsa sippen syrup (dxm) and smokin some good shit and i swear i saw the future. it was crazy but ya. ne ways i dont beleave in christianity, i myself am a rastafarian, even though im white. haha. i smoke to get closer to Jah. same thing as god but differint. haha. so ya thats me. and the future 666 is comin if u dont beleave in a god, ur goin to be the ones killin everyone. my firend is goin to try to get met to go some kind of drug that will kill me the first and only time i try. so ya. peace

Spoken as if coming from the movie "Rockers".

That was amazing, I heard you loud and clear..

Enunciation and all.

[tokosan]

i am god. bow to my incredible 19.57 posts per day

[andruejaysin]

Since when did this thread become about me prooving anything....to you princess... or anyone else for that matter.
Perhaps if you wish to make rediculous claims, you should offer some proof, otherwise, you are just another dumb okie from Muskogee (they don't smoke marijuana, they don't take no tips on LSD, but they cook some killer red & black)

[likemclever]

Listen,â?¦.andrew.

I want you to go back and read the topic of this thread (assuming you can read.)

Then, read every single post I madeâ?¦..

I would like for you to quote me where I was making ridiculous claims or pushing religion on people. I havenâ??t done anything but express my own beliefs and Iâ??ve made that perfectly clear. And when you quote meâ?¦quote the whole post.

It is not my jobâ?¦.to give you proof. Thatâ??s not how faith worksâ?¦. princess.

Maybe I should meet you in Muskogeeâ?¦..then we could just see how much they donâ??t smokeâ?¦â?¦..just one dummy to another.






Iâ??m so tired of this threadâ?¦

[Torog]

Hey Torog, Answer the question man! lol :p
Howdy GhostToker,

I meant to answer yer question,but I got side-tracked by other matters..sorry about that.

The way I see it,God is and will always be,perfect..however,Man will not be,because Man cannot be perfect like God..to even come close,we'd have to evolve through many planes of existance..we ain't on the same frequency,we are on a much lower frequency. The Original Sin occurred,because of satan tempting Eve,not because God put a weakness of character in her. While we were created in God's Image,we will never be able to achieve the level of God,but we can do good and great things..because with God,all things are possible.

Have a good one ...

[andruejaysin]

Listen,â?¦.andrew.

I want you to go back and read the topic of this thread (assuming you can read.)

Then, read every single post I madeâ?¦..

I would like for you to quote me where I was making ridiculous claims or pushing religion on people. I havenâ??t done anything but express my own beliefs and Iâ??ve made that perfectly clear. And when you quote meâ?¦quote the whole post.

It is not my jobâ?¦.to give you proof. Thatâ??s not how faith worksâ?¦. princess.

Maybe I should meet you in Muskogeeâ?¦..then we could just see how much they donâ??t smokeâ?¦â?¦..just one dummy to another.






Iâ??m so tired of this threadâ?¦
It's a song, dumbass, though not one in my cd changer. You want to meet me in muskogee? You name the time and place, I don't live that far, but know this, if you don't show, I gonna show you for a punk all over this board, and any other I can find. Your move, hillbilly boy.

[likemclever]

I'm a hillbilly girl.....

and I'm aware of the song.....it's Merle Haggard......and I happen to like Haggard.

So settle down before you rupture something important.

I was using the song to highlight the fact that you called me a dummy.....hence, "just one dummy to another".

But I like Kansas City better........I dig listening to the trains.



You must have forgot to post the link you were talking about during your last tirade.....that's ok ......I'll wait.............................

[GHoSToKeR]

It's a song, dumbass, though not one in my cd changer. You want to meet me in muskogee? You name the time and place, I don't live that far, but know this, if you don't show, I gonna show you for a punk all over this board, and any other I can find. Your move, hillbilly boy.
lol x loads

BANNED

[beachguy in thongs]

banned?

[likemclever]

Gost has been in a banning mood lately........ :)

[MightyFourTwenty]

Eh, God is just a hoax. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can pull the covers off from over you eyes, and enjoy life. That's the big secret.

Stealing this from Billy Hicks, I have just one question for you Christians out there. Just one. What about the damned Dinosaurs? Don't you think it would have been documented somewhere in the Bible that there were big fuckin' lizards walking/flying around at some point?

[GHoSToKeR]

According to my mum and her religious friends, God put dinasour fossils in the Earth as a way, to put it simply, to give is something to do. Same with the rest of the Universe - it's all just there for our amusement, apparantly. Or at least to keep us occupied. :eek:

[MightyFourTwenty]

Nevermind. I have acknowledged and accepted this fact:

To argue Christianity with a Christian is useless. They either ignore logic and sense, or they have some stupid bullshit defense that they use, such as that whole "no impurites in the world until after Adam and Eve sinned, so now because of their sin God has decreed that the sister-fucking shall forever be wrong" story. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and smoke a couple of bowls, go outside and smoke a cigarette, and then proceed with my non-religious day.

[MightyFourTwenty]

^^ Not directed to anyone in particular, just realized it all over again.

[MightyFourTwenty]

According to my mum and her religious friends, God put dinasour fossils in the Earth as a way, to put it simply, to give is something to do. Same with the rest of the Universe - it's all just there for our amusement, apparantly. Or at least to keep us occupied. :eek:

Are you sure that God didn't put fossils on the Earth as a way of testing our
faith in him? lol Sorry, Bill Hicks is the man ...

[GHoSToKeR]

Actually, yeah, that was one of the reasons they used. Seriously... lol

[MightyFourTwenty]

lol, well ... Doesn't in kinda fuckin' scare you as a Christian that God is, well, fucking with you?! I mean, that we have some kinda prankster God running around planting Dinosaur bones to confuse the fuck out of the people that were previously faithful to him ... I mean, I wouldn't say that's a good leadership tactic. So you Christians out there are basically following around an all-powerful 12-year-old that just fucks with people's minds. Congratulations!

[MightyFourTwenty]

By you I mean Christians.

[likemclever]

I donâ??t know why people are getting sooooo fucking bent out of shape about all of this.

It seems to me if the Christians on this thread are being attacked more than they are attacking.

I donâ??t understand all this fucking hostilityâ?¦.

I am a Christian��..why does that bother you so much ( and the you is in general terms)

[WEED]

god doesn't make sense.

[F L E S H]

I donâ??t know why people are getting sooooo fucking bent out of shape about all of this.

It seems to me if the Christians on this thread are being attacked more than they are attacking.

I donâ??t understand all this fucking hostilityâ?¦.

I am a Christian��..why does that bother you so much ( and the you is in general terms)
Because atheists and non-christians all over the planet have put with holier-than-thou preaching for 2,000 years, and we're fucking sick of it. Now's the time to change things, and hopefully religion will not exist anymore withing the next 200-300 years.

For 2,000 you were the persecuters and the executioners, you constantly hindered progress, both social and scientific. You put other people down becuse they didn't believe as you do, you forced people to believe as you do on pain of death and torture.

Now, I am no longer scared to offend anyone by saying that Christianity is bull, because you have offended me greatly.

[GHoSToKeR]

Amen, F L E S H! :)

[beachguy in thongs]

According to my mum and her religious friends, God put dinasour fossils in the Earth as a way, to put it simply, to give is something to do. Same with the rest of the Universe - it's all just there for our amusement, apparantly. Or at least to keep us occupied. :eek:

Does make sense. I've been told God has a sense of humor. I don't know the basis of their conclusions.

[Ousted]

According to my mum and her religious friends, God put dinasour fossils in the Earth as a way, to put it simply, to give is something to do. Same with the rest of the Universe - it's all just there for our amusement, apparantly. Or at least to keep us occupied. :eek:

This reminds me of a discussion I had with a guy about Lord of the Rings. Not long after the movie came out all he could talk about was LOTR, how great it was, so on so forth. I go and see it and of course its just not really my thing and Im, more or less, picking it apart. Everything I see thats wrong with it logic-wise, I found it, and then brought it to him being the ass that I am, lol.

Nah, it wasn't that bad, I do have some restraint not to totally rip into something someone loves, but during the discussion I found him to get irritated that I would bring up any flaw or anything that lacked logic even if my doing so was in the most respectful way. He was so into this movie, he loved the fantasy so much that even though he might concede I was right with whatever crap I would bring to his attention, my doing that was definitely taking away his investment in the fantasy and he was resenting me for it.

Anyway, what your post reminded me the most of this story was I said something like "why didnt the wizard just poof 'em to where the ring was? Throughout the movie he can do all this wicked cool magic, but he cant do that?" By this time Im probably beng a little smug, cuz I do understand thats not much of a movie if he just poofs em there and there we go, end of story.
I realized just how much his investment in the fantasy was when he said "You dont understand wizards..." and proceeded to tell me about powers of wizards which he offered no basis for. I realized then that no amount of logic is going to make this person let go of the fantasy he holds so dear to his heart, and that even the goofiest of explanations he'll accept as long as it supports this fantasy.

[andruejaysin]

lol x loads

BANNED
Ban me, I'll have a different name and be back tommorrow, they tried to ban murple over on bluelight, how well did that work out?

[likemclever]

Because atheists and non-christians all over the planet have put with holier-than-thou preaching for 2,000 years, and we're fucking sick of it. Now's the time to change things, and hopefully religion will not exist anymore withing the next 200-300 years.

For 2,000 you were the persecuters and the executioners, you constantly hindered progress, both social and scientific. You put other people down becuse they didn't believe as you do, you forced people to believe as you do on pain of death and torture.

Now, I am no longer scared to offend anyone by saying that Christianity is bull, because you have offended me greatly.

I have not been alive for 2,000 yearsâ?¦â?¦.so Iâ??m pretty sure I havenâ??t done shit to you.

Iâ??m not putting anyone down because they DONâ??T believe in God.

And Iâ??m pretty sure no one has tortured or threatened to kill you because you donâ??t believe.


Sorry to have offended you greatly ��errrr�..I guess.

So you donâ??t want freedom of religionâ?¦â?¦.hmmm.

I think perhaps youâ??re in the wrong country.



AGAINâ?¦..I still donâ??t know why the fact that Iâ??m a Christian makes a shit to you or anyone else.


Edit: Nevermind I just saw that your from Canada.....perhaps you are in the right country.

[MightyFourTwenty]

Because atheists and non-christians all over the planet have put with holier-than-thou preaching for 2,000 years, and we're fucking sick of it. Now's the time to change things, and hopefully religion will not exist anymore withing the next 200-300 years.

For 2,000 you were the persecuters and the executioners, you constantly hindered progress, both social and scientific. You put other people down becuse they didn't believe as you do, you forced people to believe as you do on pain of death and torture.

Now, I am no longer scared to offend anyone by saying that Christianity is bull, because you have offended me greatly.

Couldn't have put it better myself.. Brilliant, brother, brilliant.

[MightyFourTwenty]

I personally didn't ever care about Christians. I still really don't. I don't agree with their ideals, and I think that Christianity was and is a tool used by authority figures to manipulate the masses with. I think it's a spiritual slavery, and I feel pity for those people out there that need religion. I have been cut down, mistreated, and called out at times in my life because I am atheist, because I didn't believe in a 2000 year old book that dictates how and why I should live my life. Instead of forsaking the logic of science, not to mention just plain logic, I chose to forsake this book. And because of that perfectly sensible, intelligent move, I am treated like shit and I'm bashed everyday by the Christian world. "Put up the ten commandments in courthouses, make abortion illegal, we're right and you're wrong, you're going to burn in hell unless you conform, yada yada..."

I've just gotten to the point where I think it's time bash back, because I'm sick and tired of Christianity. It's just an excuse as to why we are here, what we should be doing during our time here, and what comes next.

[weirdo79]

Wow Likemclever, your attacking him because he's from Canada.....So is Canada an "atheist" commie state? Otherwise except for a few more civil liberties and a much smaller military industry its the same....(oh except the majority of time it is colder on average than "down in the states".....).

But hey I guess im just a godless Canadian crying in my beer....(im also American so is half of me worthwhile at least?)...

It's not the fact YOUR a christian its support for an organization(by claiming affiliation with such that is support however tacit it may be) that cripples free thought and claims all sorts of things about us "godless" folks ;). Anyone getting down and dirty is just being immature about the discussion just ignore em.

[likemclever]

I actually don't really have anything against Canada.........I look at them pretty much like any other country that pretends to be our friend.....(I'm not saying that to be an ass....just how I see it)......

A major reason why Canada's military is so much smaller is because it borders the United States......and ultimately if you were to be invaded or attacked who do you think would defend it...........Canada?????????? (same goes for Mexico)

I claim affiliation with Christ........

And I do think it's the fact that I'm a Christian.....I am TRYING to be civil......

people have been on my case since my first post in this thread........what a peace loving, open minded, tolerant bunch.......

I posted in this thread by accident actually......I thought it was in the lounge.....I never post in here.......and this is why. This forum isn't about spiritual discussion. It's about hate.....

[F L E S H]

I have not been alive for 2,000 yearsâ?¦â?¦.so Iâ??m pretty sure I havenâ??t done shit to you.

Iâ??m not putting anyone down because they DONâ??T believe in God.

And Iâ??m pretty sure no one has tortured or threatened to kill you because you donâ??t believe.


Sorry to have offended you greatly ��errrr�..I guess.

So you donâ??t want freedom of religionâ?¦â?¦.hmmm.

I think perhaps youâ??re in the wrong country.



AGAINâ?¦..I still donâ??t know why the fact that Iâ??m a Christian makes a shit to you or anyone else.


Edit: Nevermind I just saw that your from Canada.....perhaps you are in the right country.
You personally didn't do anything to me, don't think what I said was aimed personally at you. However, your beliefs offend me. Maybe you're different, maybe you're more open-minded, nonetheless Christianity offends me, and it's only getting worse. My parents are religious, doesn't mean I hate them...

When I said "you" I didn't mean you, likemclever. I meant Christianity in general. But whatever, if you feel included, too bad.

BTW, what the fuck does me being from Canada have anything to do with what we're talking about? You know me because I'm from Canada, now?

And who said anything about religious freedom? For now, you can believe whatever you like, I don't give two shits. But I'm still wishing for the complete eradication of religion. I can dream....

Oh, and stop playing the victim... Nobody's out to get you, specifically. Don't be that arrogant.

[ermitonto]

I personally don't see why condemning such a hateful ideology as Christianity is any worse than condemning other hateful ideologies like Stalinism, white supremacy, or fascism. Certainly Christianity has caused far more death and misanthropy than those three put together. It just has a lot more "true believers". Christianity teaches us that all the good things about mankind are the result of some divine entity to which we are all slaves, and all the negative things about mankind are the result of an innate wickedness everybody has from birth. This creates such a profound hatred for mankind that ridding the world of Christianity is absolutely imperative if this is ever to become a truly peaceful planet.

[likemclever]

You personally didn't do anything to me, don't think what I said was aimed personally at you. However, your beliefs offend me. Maybe you're different, maybe you're more open-minded, nonetheless Christianity offends me, and it's only getting worse. My parents are religious, doesn't mean I hate them...

When I said "you" I didn't mean you, likemclever. I meant Christianity in general. But whatever, if you feel included, too bad.

BTW, what the fuck does me being from Canada have anything to do with what we're talking about? You know me because I'm from Canada, now?

And who said anything about religious freedom? For now, you can believe whatever you like, I don't give two shits. But I'm still wishing for the complete eradication of religion. I can dream....

Oh, and stop playing the victim... Nobody's out to get you, specifically. Don't be that arrogant.


lolâ?¦..

Thereâ??s this guy I know who doesnâ??t use deodorant because he thinks it causes cancerâ?¦â?¦â?¦â?¦..his beliefs offend me too but I donâ??t think heâ??s an evil closed minded person.

Iâ??m sorry flesh I assumed that when you quoted me and said the word â??youâ?� a whole bunch of timesâ?¦..you were talking to me.

I think you have about as much of a chance of getting rid of religion as you do getting rid of country musicâ?¦â?¦but yes you can dream thatâ??s why their called â??dreamsâ?�.

And please��.It would take more than internet bickering to victimize me.

But I do seem to be the only one at the bottom of the Atheist dog pile at the moment.

Peace~

[GHoSToKeR]

Okay look, i'm not being funny, but when it comes to this debate.. it's interesting and all, sometimes. But really there IS no debate. There's no question, seriously, as to whether God exists or not. Every rational and logical person concedes that he does not. Those who believe he does are, by definition, irrational and illogical.

There is no God. There is no question.

[GHoSToKeR]

lolâ?¦..

Thereâ??s this guy I know who doesnâ??t use deodorant because he thinks it causes cancerâ?¦â?¦â?¦â?¦..his beliefs offend me too but I donâ??t think heâ??s an evil closed minded person.

Iâ??m sorry flesh I assumed that when you quoted me and said the word â??youâ?� a whole bunch of timesâ?¦..you were talking to me.

I think you have about as much of a chance of getting rid of religion as you do getting rid of country musicâ?¦â?¦but yes you can dream thatâ??s why their called â??dreamsâ?�.

And please��.It would take more than internet bickering to victimize me.

But I do seem to be the only one at the bottom of the Atheist dog pile at the moment.

Peace~ Hey that's cool. I'm sure there are people who agree with you who have read this thread but are either too scared to argue their case or don't have enough conviction in their beliefs to do so. It's cool when somebody sticks up for what they believe in, no matter what it is. :)

[likemclever]

Every rational and logical person concedes that he does not. Those who believe he does are, by definition, irrational and illogical.




OK....now your just being silly....... :rolleyes:

[GHoSToKeR]

How so?

There is not a single scrap of evidence or proof that God exists or has existed. There is supposition, yes. There is rumour. There is heresay and myth and there are stories.

But there is absolutely no proof or evidence. After thousands of years not one person has managed to bring anything to the table that might suggest even for a second that God exists, or at least did in the past. Logic would dictate that this means he does not exist. A rational person would agree with this.

[likemclever]

So are you saying we know all there is to know about life.


We must.... because we would have "proof" by now.....right?


There is also no single scrap of evidence or "proof" that God does NOT exist......come on after thousands of years not one person has managed to bring anything to the table that might sugest even for a second that God does not exist......(do you see where I'm going with this)

A rational person would agree with this...... :D

[weirdo79]

Actually plenty of things have been brought to the table to "Prove" certain gods dont exist. For instance "God" (known by definition as the "biblegod" the one who supposedly spawned Christ). Go to www.evilbible.com for hundreds of them.....

To say NO "godlike" being could ever exist is stupid and no scientific person would say that. We dont know the full limits of our universe however that doesnt mean we state that everything we don't understand was/is "God" that would be counter productive and ignorant (ironically ignorant is a synonym with the definition's of faith ;) )......We investigate and collect evidence, without any the conclusion can only be reached that it isnt there. Until you have evidence belief in something is rather silly in all reality.


There isnt really a scrap of evidence that the Loch ness monster doesnt exist other than that MOST photos are exposed as frauds others are "unexplainable" does this mean nessie is there?

Occam's razor, it's nice to dream but try to stick to reality with your head in the clouds you tend to trip over people who you can't even see.

There is no evidence for gods or sugar plum fairy's or leprechauns does that mean they can't exist? nope....Does it mean they do exist nope.....so whats the logical next step....?

Would you convict someone on hearsay conjecture rumour and assumptions? With zero actual evidence? I hope not but if so I guess your belief system is justified however "unjustly" it is in the end ;).

[beachguy in thongs]

It's all in how you're brought up, if you have a "supreme" being to look up to then you're mind is occupied, rather than running rampant with evil thoughts.

[GHoSToKeR]

So are you saying we know all there is to know about life.


We must.... because we would have "proof" by now.....right?


There is also no single scrap of evidence or "proof" that God does NOT exist......come on after thousands of years not one person has managed to bring anything to the table that might sugest even for a second that God does not exist......(do you see where I'm going with this)

A rational person would agree with this...... :D
Most. Illogical. Post. Ever. Captain. :)

If you had read my previous posts you would know that i'm not saying we know all there is to know about the Universe. In fact, this is one of the reasons I will neve believe in God. To believe in God is to believe you know the Answer to all of mans great questions and in my opinion is the height of man's arrogance.

Regarding your second point; one does not have to prove that something does not exist. This is where you are getting confused. In fact it is easier to prove that something does exist than to prove that it doesn't. If something is in front of you then that is proof enough that it exiss; however to say something doesn't exist is, by all accounts, impossible to prove. You could search the known universe for God and never find him, and a Christian search as yourself could (and probably would) say "you didn't look far enough.. he's in the next universe over". This would be impossible to disprove.

However, judging by what we know currently know of the universe there is no God. We have never found God, and by no means available to us have we ever found any evidence that he has existed. There is evidence of evolution andsuch here on Earth that screams there is no God, and still people such as yourself fail to take this in and completely ignore it.

I'll say this again;

If two people are having a dispute in which one is claiming the existence of an object or entity and one is arguing that this object or entity does not exist then it is up to the person making the original claim to provide proof of the existence of this object or entity, otherwise their claim has no ground.

I have yet to see anyone provide this proof, ever. Suppostion, yes. Conjecture, yes. Proof, no. Until you do so there is absolutely no reason for me to believe it. I believe in vampires and unicorns as much as I believe in God. And it is not my job to prove that God doesn't exist, when you can not prove that he does.

[ermitonto]

It's all in how you're brought up, if you have a "supreme" being to look up to then you're mind is occupied, rather than running rampant with evil thoughts.
Then why isn't the crime rate lower for theists than for atheists? This sounds like something that could be verified with experiments. If no belief in God = evil thoughts = evil behavior, you'd be able to point to studies to prove it.

Also remember that the Nazis had a "supreme" being to look up to, only he was human and not a figment of anybody's imagination, and they certainly had evil thoughts.

[beachguy in thongs]

Then why isn't the crime rate lower for theists than for atheists? This sounds like something that could be verified with experiments. If no belief in God = evil thoughts = evil behavior, you'd be able to point to studies to prove it.

Also remember that the Nazis had a "supreme" being to look up to, only he was human and not a figment of anybody's imagination, and they certainly had evil thoughts.

Well, you can replace "belief in God" with "playing marbles", I don't care, I was just saying you gotta keep a kid occupied with pure thoughts.

[Ousted]

To believe in God is to believe you know the Answer to all of mans great questions and in my opinion is the height of man's arrogance.

That's so awesome.

I also completely agree with your point about disproving negatives. It's very difficult to disprove a negative (like unicorns, fairies, God, whathaveyou did not exist.) How can you possibly prove something didnt exist if it never existed in this big huge world of ours? Especially when what we are being requested to disprove isnt matter, its some spiritual entity that could live, exactly like you said, in this universe, or the next one over. Or it may not exist at all. It so unfair when believers in God make a request of others to disprove a higher power. How the fuck do you do that? If someone says "I believe in unicorns, prove to me they dont exist" you look at them like "you're the biggest idiot I've ever encountered." God damn you lazy asses, its your job to prove to me they do/did exist, otherwise dont waste my time debating with me about your little fantasies because I wasn't able to come through with disproving unicorns to your arbitrary satisfaction!

How is it not the exact same thing when the request is to disprove God instead of a unicorn? And the result would probably be the same whether the exploration was a search for God or unicorns, if we come back with nothing, then exactly like you said we'd be told we must not have looked hard enough, or maybe its something that exists on other planets or in a distant universe, or blah blah blah! Anyway, you are so right when you say it is not our responsibility to prove that what you believe in definitely doesnt exist. Thats too tall an order, its just such an unbelievably unfair request.

Great post, btw, Ghost. The line I quoted would be great as a sig, may I use it if you dont wanna? *bats eyelashes* :p

[likemclever]

that doesnt mean we state that everything we don't understand was/is "God" that would be counter productive and ignorant

Of course we donâ??t call the entirety of the unknown Godâ?¦.that would be a bit like saying a Ford Mustang built in the year 2057 is Godâ?¦â?¦.??????

I donâ??t think anyone thinks that.




To say NO "godlike" being could ever exist is stupid and no scientific person would say that.

You are correct about thisâ?¦.


(ironically ignorant is a synonym with the definition's of faith ;) )......

You need to buy a better dictionary��:D



....We investigate and collect evidence, without any the conclusion can only be reached that it isnt there. Until you have evidence belief in something is rather silly in all reality.


Woooo manâ?¦your saying that based upon on collection of evidence we have to assume that God isnâ??t thereâ?¦â?¦.Iâ??m glad your not fucking running thingsâ?¦â?¦because based on your argument a hundred years ago we would have believed that penicillin didnâ??t exist.




There isnt really a scrap of evidence that the Loch ness monster doesnt exist other than that MOST photos are exposed as frauds others are "unexplainable" does this mean nessie is there?



I noticed you used the word most and "unexplainable".....great job....;)




Occam's razor, it's nice to dream but try to stick to reality with your head in the clouds you tend to trip over people who you can't even see.



You're going to half to do better than a disgruntled Monk.....





There is no evidence for gods or sugar plum fairy's or leprechauns does that mean they can't exist? nope....Does it mean they do exist nope.....so whats the logical next step....?



Men don't go to war over the Sugar plum fairy.....I think you would agree there is more at stake here.



Would you convict someone on hearsay conjecture rumour and assumptions? With zero actual evidence? I hope not but if so I guess your belief system is justified however "unjustly" it is in the end ;).

No I would not convict them.....But just because I wouldn't convict them doesn't mean they didn't do it..........Hello O.J. Simpson calling.
:rolleyes:

[likemclever]

And you hold on Mr. Gost toker I have to get off the computer right now but I'm comming back for you..... :D

[GHoSToKeR]

Hehe thanks, Ousted. I just realised there were so many typos in my post that it was almost indecipherable. hehe :P Sure, you can use that quote in your sig if you want.. it'd make me proud! lol

likemclever, i'm waiting, i'm waiting!! :p

[Ousted]

Check you out!!! :cool:

[GHoSToKeR]

**is proud**

I told you. :)

[weirdo79]

1. Thesaurus not dictionary actually. And look at the definitions of both and take an english language class....

2. Nobody did believe in penicillin UNTIL it was discovered.....Nice circular reasoning though ;). (Science doesnt work like religions)

3. Occam's Razor is actually the most widely used scientific thought process, but hey you attack it all you want(after all its an attack on logic and thats obviously not a strong thing in religious circles).

4. O.J had more than hearsay conjecture etc, ever heard of DNA.....Why do you think that trial was such a travesty and everyone knew he did it. Because the evidence came out and it was physical.....(ie: forensic physical evidence, BLOOD.....) Nice try though almost as nice as your dismissal of Occam's Razor without any actual counter point.

5. There is more at stake your correct, however that doesnt negate my point that every single religion has zero evidence....arguing the merits of violence of the christian god vs the sugar plum fairy are nonsensical as it was allegorical. Neither have evidence yet one is believed one is not.....now does it make sense to you?

Most "miracles" are given simple explanations and proved does this mean that "God" did the rest....I dont understand what your trying to say by "teasing" about most and unexplainable(which is defined as not being able to explain something at the moment...not forever...) I'm pointing out Nessie is as likely (and in fact MORE likely than any god showing up). As are Aliens ironically (something made impossible by the bible and christian dogma as "were" the only ones in the universe made especially for us remember....).

But hey pick up the strawman and beat that sucker to death and don't counter any point I dont mind in the least gives me a good laugh ;).

[GHoSToKeR]

Nice post, Weirdo.

It confuses me how some people can choose to ignore such blatant logic and reasoning.

[ermitonto]

Well, you can replace "belief in God" with "playing marbles", I don't care, I was just saying you gotta keep a kid occupied with pure thoughts.
This is what I don't get about Christianity. It teaches that in the absence of any other influence, everybody is wicked and starts thinking wicked evil things. I really do believe that people are on the whole good creatures. It teaches that everybody is a fundamentally evil being, but some people have a layer of good plastered over that.

But in the real world, left to their own devices, most people will not just go out raping and murdering. Rather, we cooperate to ensure mutual well-being. That's why society exists in the first place.

[F L E S H]

This is what I don't get about Christianity. It teaches that in the absence of any other influence, everybody is wicked and starts thinking wicked evil things. I really do believe that people are on the whole good creatures. It teaches that everybody is a fundamentally evil being, but some people have a layer of good plastered over that.

But in the real world, left to their own devices, most people will not just go out raping and murdering. Rather, we cooperate to ensure mutual well-being. That's why society exists in the first place.
Yeah, and on the issue of family morals, where Christians claim to hold a monopoly, isn't it ironic that the divorce rate in the more religious southern states is way higher than that liberal, amoral bastion that is Massachussetts?

[GHoSToKeR]

Irony is wasted on Republicans and Christians.

[likemclever]

To believe in God is to believe you know the Answer to all of mans great questions and in my opinion is the height of man's arrogance.

I donâ??t know where your getting this fromâ?¦â?¦.To believe in God does not mean that you think you have figured everything out.

You can still believe in God and not know the answers to all of lifeâ??s mysteries.



Regarding your second point;

Lolâ?¦..my second point was actually your pointâ?¦..I basically said the same thing you did but I put the word NOT in thereâ?¦.:)

I think your wrong ��..I think you DO have to proves that GOD does not exist. I think that your beliefs carry a burden of proof equal to mine.

After all when it comes down to it you have two choices to consider.

Either you believe in God or you do not.

(And by God I mean in the broadest senseâ?¦..people have more trouble defining God than believing in â??himâ?�)


If something is in front of you then that is proof enough that it exiss; however to say something doesn't exist is, by all accounts, impossible to prove.
I agree with you on this point.


You could search the known universe for God and never find him, and a Christian search as yourself could (and probably would) say "you didn't look far enough.. he's in the next universe over". This would be impossible to disprove.
I think you are under the impression that I am looking for God the way that people look for their car keysâ?¦My search to â??findâ?� God is not a destinationâ?¦..it is a journey or something of a spiritual arrival.

The actual â??findingâ?� part comes nextâ?¦..or so they sayâ?¦.:)



However, judging by what we know currently know of the universe there is no God. We have never found God, and by no means available to us have we ever found any evidence that he has existed. There is evidence of evolution andsuch here on Earth that screams there is no God, and still people such as yourself fail to take this in and completely ignore it.


I think that when it comes to evolution there is room for a kind of tweaking for environmental reasons.

But I donâ??t buy the whole â?¦. once upon a time there was a great rock (forget about where the rock came from and lets not talk about what was there before the rock) and it exploded because of â?¦xyz. Anyway â?¦..here we stand today.

Belive me I know religion makes some hard to handle claims â?¦â?¦..But shit thatâ??s pretty hard to swallow tooâ?¦..lol.

And there is so much that science can not â??explainâ?� or show â??proofâ?� about that we come into contact with on a daily basisâ?¦..I think we are spiritual creatures for a reasonâ?¦.




I'm tired and I have to study......Goodnight.....peace~

[Edgar]

I believe in vampires... Prove to me that my belief is unfounded, if you can't, I'll go right on believing it.

[weirdo79]

What do we come in contact with on a daily basis that science can neither explain or verify? (note daily basis) Just curious.

[likemclever]

Edgar....I don't wish to control what you believe.....but talking about it would be fine...:)

[beachguy in thongs]

Yeah, and on the issue of family morals, where Christians claim to hold a monopoly, isn't it ironic that the divorce rate in the more religious southern states is way higher than that liberal, amoral bastion that is Massachussetts?

It's an example of seperation of states.

[beachguy in thongs]

Somebody make up a God we can all agree on!!!

[F L E S H]

And there is so much that science can not â??explainâ?� or show â??proofâ?� about that we come into contact with on a daily basisâ?¦..I think we are spiritual creatures for a reasonâ?¦.

You know, defenders of creationism always end up saying that, and it's not true at all. The only things science can't explain are the ludicrous claims religious people make. Because, if you know where to look for them, scientific journals are full day after day of new discoveries which themselves continually lead to new discoveries. Does science explain everything? Not yet, but we're damn near close. And the proof for theories like evolution are out there, creatoinists just tend to ignore it or ask questions in a circualr manner, so that you never get anywhere.

[beachguy in thongs]

The reason I feel so alone.

[beachguy in thongs]

I mean, what kind of stuff are we supposed to be looking for?
I think the Universe if amazing enough, I don't need to look behind it.

[GHoSToKeR]

Edit: Just posted a long post, but can't be assed. It will just be ignored, or misinterpreted.

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

I mean, what kind of stuff are we supposed to be looking for?
I think the Universe if amazing enough, I don't need to look behind it.
but sometimes something else pops out at you, and you feel an urge to explore

[beachguy in thongs]

Like what??? A spirit? Or a dream?
We have ghost-hunters and psychologists.
But to look beyond the Universe and into God, is beyond me.

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

well, for some reason it's different for me. i feel something, it's a strong feeling that i can't describe.

but what pops up at me is actually the boogie-man

[beachguy in thongs]

Don't you watch A & E when those ghost-hunting shows come on? It seems like they are trying to explain the most-subtle occurences in a place. It's weird what they pick up, but I'm not sure what's really going on, so I watch the Yankees game.

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

haha, yeah i've seen that shit. it's pretty interesting, i like to learn more about the science associated with these random occurrences, but tv doesn't show it so i too just watch the yankees game.. plus it's easier to follow when i'm drunk and high

[beachguy in thongs]

haha, yeah i've seen that shit. it's pretty interesting, i like to learn more about the science associated with these random occurrences, but tv doesn't show it so i too just watch the yankees game.. plus it's easier to follow when i'm drunk and high

" like to learn more about the science associated with these random occurrences." -Amy.

That's the best part about "Cops", "World's Wildest Police Video's", and "Maximum Exposure".

[GHoSToKeR]

Stop talking about GHoST hunters. :(

[beachguy in thongs]

Ok, let's talk about Stokerhunters.

[MightyFourTwenty]

..I think we are spiritual creatures for a reasonâ?¦.

... and I believe that that reason is because Christians, as well as other religious peoples, are afraid of what comes next, after life.

[weirdo79]

bah dont bother 420 when you make a good point they just ignore it and pretend you never said anything at all.....like "what hunh oh I must have missed that...."

[likemclever]

1. Thesaurus not dictionary actually. And look at the definitions of both and take an english language class....

2. Nobody did believe in penicillin UNTIL it was discovered.....Nice circular reasoning though ;). (Science doesnt work like religions)

3. Occam's Razor is actually the most widely used scientific thought process, but hey you attack it all you want(after all its an attack on logic and thats obviously not a strong thing in religious circles).

4. O.J had more than hearsay conjecture etc, ever heard of DNA.....Why do you think that trial was such a travesty and everyone knew he did it. Because the evidence came out and it was physical.....(ie: forensic physical evidence, BLOOD.....) Nice try though almost as nice as your dismissal of Occam's Razor without any actual counter point.

5. There is more at stake your correct, however that doesnt negate my point that every single religion has zero evidence....arguing the merits of violence of the christian god vs the sugar plum fairy are nonsensical as it was allegorical. Neither have evidence yet one is believed one is not.....now does it make sense to you?

Most "miracles" are given simple explanations and proved does this mean that "God" did the rest....I dont understand what your trying to say by "teasing" about most and unexplainable(which is defined as not being able to explain something at the moment...not forever...) I'm pointing out Nessie is as likely (and in fact MORE likely than any god showing up). As are Aliens ironically (something made impossible by the bible and christian dogma as "were" the only ones in the universe made especially for us remember....).

But hey pick up the strawman and beat that sucker to death and don't counter any point I dont mind in the least gives me a good laugh ;).



1. I said dictionary because I think you need to look up the word synonymâ?¦..and Iâ??ve had more than my fair share of English classes.

2. I donâ??t know what your trying to say here but that is my argumentâ?¦.if we didnâ??t believe in penicillin before it was discoveredâ?¦â?¦.than that would makes us wrongâ?¦..because it did existâ?¦â?¦non-belief in it didnâ??t stop Fleming from looking for itâ?¦and discovering itâ?¦â?¦..it was there the whole time.

3. As you have already said religion doesnâ??t work like science.

4. if you donâ??t like the O.J. Simpson analogy â?¦â?¦than just replace it with any other dirt bag that got off because of lack of evidenceâ?¦â?¦just because someone isnâ??t condemned doesnâ??t mean they didnâ??t do it.

5. Here we come back to proof again��religion is not about proof��and if your waiting for it than you will be waiting until the day you die.


The reason Iâ??m not responding is because Iâ??ve been posting to this thread for a while now and Iâ??m growing tired of itâ?¦â?¦Iâ??d rather use my high on more light hearted matters.

Peace~

[likemclever]

... and I believe that that reason is because Christians, as well as other religious peoples, are afraid of what comes next, after life.

I'm saying we are born spirtual creatures.........not devlope that way.

[likemclever]

What do we come in contact with on a daily basis that science can neither explain or verify? (note daily basis) Just curious.

When I wrote that I was thinking about Intuition��..not instinct��Intuition.

[beachguy in thongs]

Poor girl, is getting double-teamed!

[likemclever]

Sounds kinda yummy.....jk.

[beachguy in thongs]

oh, I didn't see the "jk".

I was gonna...

[GHoSToKeR]

Hey likem :)

I don't mean anything by this.. but your last post directed at weirdo demonstrates all the reasons that i'll never believe in any god or be a part of a religion.

GHoST

[likemclever]

ok,

I guess we don't understand each other equally .....

Likem~

[beachguy in thongs]

Both you post-ees have force-fed my notion that I am not involved in this, and God is a name, you don't see people going around saying Jehovah Bless You and Buddha Bless You and Allah Bless You, so, you're God is you, making everything God, because I never looked it up in Cambridge Universal Dictionary.

[beachguy in thongs]

C. U. D.

[beachguy in thongs]

I meant, after you sneeze.

[weirdo79]

Intuition is simple physical and social cue's we take from each other. Some like to call it their "gut" but its really your brain just doing incredibly fast math.

You can keep coming up with all the circular comments you want as to the dictionary but its still simply faith= belief without evidence ignorance = belief without evidence.....it's amazing Racism and Religion have something in common...

Your defensiveness about someone pointing out the fallacies in your logic (like your defence of O.J. getting off, when the evidence was quite clear(contrary to your claims) , it was societal bias that got him off, the evidence was cut and dry hence the outcry (I've said it twice now but hey keep ignoring the facts christians do it all the time) DNA IS CONCLUSIVE...... :).

(you also still haven't given one example of these things we come in contact with everyday intuition or otherwise ;) ).

Im not waiting for proof just dont expect me not to ridicule you for believing in fairy tales and then dismissing others. My favourite point ever.....

Why is your God real and not Zeus or Aphrodite (one of my personal faves ;) ).

You can believe anything you want , for instance I can believe gravity doesnt exist or that evolution isnt a fact. That however does not actually change the reality that both exist and are factual :).

[likemclever]

I'm done with this "spirtuality" fourm......so everybody can just get back to patting each other on the back about what they don't believe .....

Peace~

[GHoSToKeR]

Arguing about religion is always a bad idea. Two sides, both stuck in their ways.. one's obviously gonna get upset or angry. Sorry likem. :(

[likemclever]

Not mad Gost...

But I'm not gonna try and have a serious conversation with someone whos only objective is to be condescending and thinks that being right is more important than being true.

No one will ever have enough of what the other requires��

Peace~

[MightyFourTwenty]

Well, it was fun while it lasted, I wasn't trying to piss anyone off, so if I did sorry. Anyways, good theological discussion ... err, debate ... Or w/e you want to call it.

[beachguy in thongs]

I'm done with this "spirtuality" fourm......so everybody can just get back to patting each other on the back

Let's get down to it...I have an itch.

[likemclever]

Well, it was fun while it lasted, I wasn't trying to piss anyone off, so if I did sorry. Anyways, good theological discussion ... err, debate ... Or w/e you want to call it.

ha ha no worries Mighty one.

I seriously have no hard feelings for anyone....

I'm just tired of this thread...



peace all arround~

[likemclever]

Let's get down to it...I have an itch.



Before we get down to anything....you should see a Dr. about that itch.... :D

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

Why is your God real and not Zeus or Aphrodite (one of my personal faves ;)


i think that Zeus and Aphrodite were the greek's way of making sense of things around them as every religion does, and who knows, maybe they did exist, i don't know for a fact that they didn't. but what i do know is the reason i believe in God over anything else is i feel an interaction. now maybe that's just my brain relaxing and maybe i'm tripping out and it could be all psychological, but afterwards i feel a comfort, and i feel so open to everyone and i get more open-minded. it's not like it's something ritualistic for me, hell i don't go to church or say specific prayers or quote the bible, but i feel something different going on, something deeper than i know how to explain.

[likemclever]

but afterwards i feel a comfort, and i feel so open to everyone and i get more open-minded. it's not like it's something ritualistic for me, hell i don't go to church or say specific prayers or quote the bible, but i feel something different going on, something deeper than i know how to explain.


... :) ...

[beachguy in thongs]

Before we get down to anything....you should see a Dr. about that itch.... :D

Uh Oh, I think I opened my mouth too soon.

I meant, I've loved being scratched on my back ever since I was little.