HARD ON'S SOG ALTERNATIVE

[HARDDON]

:D

Since I learned SOG is best done with clones, and NOT seedlings, I have resorted to bending the shit outta my plants and tieing them down.

I am now getting some secondary growth which will help my overall yeild, but I am just trying to salvage this grow so I at least get a few joints out of it :)

The main kolas are all fine and flowering well.

I sent the 4 weekest females outside to fend for themselves, so I have 10 plants now in flower.

ONE THE BRIGHT SIDE:

FINAL TOTALS:

Of 18 kept......

4 MALES
1 HERMIE
13 FEMALES

72% FEMALES!!!!!!!!

I suspect strongly 2 of the remaining 3 on my LST will be female and one male. If that holds up, I will have generated a 71% female to male ratio :)

Compelling evidence I hoped to find that stress free growing can influence female / male gender.

Of course I would need to redo this several times and generate the same results and then do some double blind placebo tests...but fuck all that shit.

I believe it to be true...so be it for HARD ON :)

Stress less seedling and early veg stage will generate more females by the end of the week 3 :)

In my most humble opinion :)

[Marc Benson]

So did the plants that had thrips turn male or female?

[HARDDON]

Now that you mention it, hermie.

[Marc Benson]

So where do you have the plant that's in the first photo? That isn't one of your LST girls is it?

[Rezinator]

"...placebo ...but fuck all that shit..", cracked me up good, H.

Just when I was thinking I'd opened a latewood thread or somethin'... no 'fence, late. ;)

2 quik q's, H.

The bulbs are both HPS's, no?

and

In your pics I see what looks like styrofoam on the removed front panel. Was that by any chance a 3/4" insulation product from (the other, less infamous) HD(epot), and if so was it used for soundproofing; and if yes, then is it working out.

[HARDDON]

MB...she stands in the flower room as we speak. I found one more hermie this morning :( It was the really funky looking one from the very early days that had those trichs all over it. Hermie all the way.

---------------------------------------------

Rzn8r...

No one bulb is MH the other is HPS.

I covered the whole front door in styrofoam when I was building it. Yes it was from The Home Depot. (you can grow it....they can help )

I had no idea when building this box about the temps and what might happen if those bulbs blew up....I like sleeping at night so I fire proofed it with a layer of styrofoam then a thermal blanket.

I just never got around to thermal blanketing the bottom flower chamber as I figured it was safe once I learned a bit about what I was doing.

But initially, I had no idea and just wanted to build a completely isolated environment.

[HARDDON]

And now the SOG begins to show its canopy :)

One pic shows three plants.....i bent them way over and got the secondaries out to start flower. So the little fields will develope now.

By thinning out the males and hermies and a couple of weak females, I am able to keep light going to the bottoms thus preventing to some degree the loss of all the lower stuff.

But for now, it all focused on buds :)

So you can SOG from seedling....just be prepared to bend the shit outta them along the way.......to be continued....

[chonged]

Looking good HD,

im putting a smoke alarm over my flowering chamber ....just in case shit happens

i read (i dunno if its true or not) that if a female plant turns out to be a hermie, and it pollinates itself, all the seeds will be female...i know there is then a possibilty of genetic probs, but.... all female seeds :)

[HARDDON]

Nah.....

I would believe a hermie will have hermie seeds.

I hope to hell I am right and you are wrong cuz I have killed like 3 hermies.

If I could have got some good seeds being feminized and I been killing all the mothers, I need to have my ass kicked.

Any volunteers?

MB?????? Feel up to it?

:)

[Marc Benson]

Ya I could help you out. Just send me a plane ticket and I'll come down. But when ya see a 6'2" 250 pound powerlifter with a 50" chest and 20" arms with freckles walking off the plane though I don't want to hear any whimpering. Just take it like a man.

SOG is looking good HD. And you wanted to toss it in the garbage!

[HARDDON]

20" arms my ass :)

ROFLMAO....

Who are you really...fucking the HULK?


LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Thanks MB..yea I am down on myself for being such a bitch......I had a shitty day and all i could remember was the love affair with Cunt and Whore........

It was like, "WHERE ARE THE FUCKING FLOWERS AND BUDS GODDAMNIT?"

I am now much better :)

THanks for hanging with me! :)

[jimmybobjoe]

Just a question for you Hardon..not criticism!!!!! is it just me or do some of the leaf tips in the pictures seem extremely yellow and crunchy....what is that from? can it hurt your yeild by haveing a few upper leaves not 100% healthy? Thanks in advance your high and mighty one.

[Marc Benson]

I think HD was giving a tutorial to his apprentices on what happens when a high powered CFL gets too close.

As far as some upper leaves not being perfectly healthy? I have a plant that has some major problems with fans right now. Went from being able to dry out/use the water in it's soil in 2 days to me wondering if it's ever going to dry out! So yes it can effect it but that's all dependent on how many there is. A few I doubt you'd ever see any repercussions. The more there are though the more chance for negative reactions.

Also, when the damaged fans occur would have bearing on the effects. Less when into full veg as others are growing and replacing the damaged ones. More when flowering when basically all the fans are done growing and aren't being replaced.

Do you agree oh great and powerful exhaulted Hardest One? HA!

[misty116]

Ya I could help you out. Just send me a plane ticket and I'll come down. But when ya see a 6'2" 250 pound powerlifter with a 50" chest and 20" arms with freckles walking off the plane though I don't want to hear any whimpering. Just take it like a man.

SOG is looking good HD. And you wanted to toss it in the garbage!

arms 20" long is WAY short... am i missing something?

[HARDDON]

I think he meant 20" in bicep girth :)

JamesRobertJoseph......

I had some torturous conditions after they went into flower and fricken leaves blowing everywhere against the lights and blah blah blah.

No, this damage to fan leaves wont affect the buds.

[9ski9]

Okay, in your recently educated opinion HD, a SOG from seedlings is feasible with how many days of veg with how much vertical room under your quality lights, with minimal bending?

Hmmm...a better way to ask: would you do this again by vegging 21 days if you had 48 inches from stem base to the top of the plant?

I recall you were at 24" after 21 days veg AND 12 days of flower.

And then there's the potency issue of plants that have only vegged 21 days...I suppose that's still to be decided.

[HARDDON]

If I had it to do it over again?

No I wouldnt SOG from seedlings. No way at all.

The returns were just so much better with a whole plant or 2.

Even if I had a limitless grow area and lighting, I just think I can find better ways to grow :)

I will manage this one and I will pull it off...I think I can squeeze 4 ounces outta this SOG...far below my previous dreams.....

I have some really good strains going and my LST is doing so wonderful....so I am learning 2 more types of grow this time around so I can increase my knowledge and be a vacuum of data and information :)

[Rezinator]

just me chillin on day 2 of flowering...

But really, sir. Must you be so graphic?


I will manage this one and I will pull it off...

[HARDDON]

Taken 2 days ago on the 25th.

Also included a nice pic of a close up bud and there is a cool looking Trich shot :)

[Rezinator]

Holy shit, Hard.

I have been rendered speachless.

[red662]

lookin good hd, i have 2 say, with the limits u where workin with it turned out ok, i havent been able 2 post pics cause the cam i am usin is a cam phone and wont take quality pics, but lookin @ ur pics above id say they r lookin pretty much the same, i only have 8 females left all nice bud sites growin right through the canopy and with the mylar, its gettin all the light needed.
one question, the tallest i have is 5foot, r so, i was gonna bend it r weigh it down to slow it growin upwords, cause i only have 6footodd. so what would u reckomend, tiein it so it bends in one direction and rotate daily? so the whole lot is gettin the lighti it neds r? what would u do??.ill try take some pics but i have 2 take em from the grow room and in2 the house 2 tal=ke a decent pic and with the size off them now, thats not easy nosey neighbours.
any help appreciated.
peace

[HARDDON]

Bending and tieing down is best done prior to flower or just as flowering starts. Once flower starts, the stems can be very brittle and snap quite easily as the the outter tubes of the plant begin to hollow out.

Also, the plant is set in its flower tops and bending can alter the light coverage on the flowers..which could be good or bad.

You would need to look at the possibilities.

If you still have a foot left, I would keep rotating it. Any growth after 3 weeks of flower is minimal and mostly girth as opposed height, although height will continue some what.

I wouldnt attempt to weigh the top top down....if you decide to bend it, which is fine, do it slowly, little by little....an inch or half inch per day. DO not over do it on any single day as a snap would throw it into shock and cease growth for a week or two.

Shitty pics are better than no pics :)

[RastaKaze]

hey hard havnt been on in a while, nice job :eek: just out of curiosity how much vertical space u have? not including the pots obviously

[HARDDON]

hey hard havnt been on in a while, nice job :eek: just out of curiosity how much vertical space u have? not including the pots obviously

After I remove the space for lights and containers, I am left with about 16" of height.

THus the bending over :)

[arathi]

Props to ya harddon, I just finished reading your full SOG log.

Boy thats a doozy!

[HARDDON]

Yea a SOG from seed is a job indeed :)

I now have 8 plants total inside.

3 are under the LST grow, and 5 turned out hermie. I think the dude I got my seeds from sold me a bunch of fucking hermie seeds :(

How the fuck i gonna get 5 hermies outta 21 plants?????

Its cool cuz i dont have room for them anyhow :)

I am happy with these so I guess its cool.

Here are todays update:

[red662]

thnxs again HD so the best time would b start off flowerin, another one 4 the nxt grow, i have certainly discovered a lot on this grow. the plant in questin is just over 5foot, i have prob another 2 foot 2 play with, but when i higher the light 4 this 1 oplant the rest off the babys r 2 far away from the light(up 2, 2foot)so i have 2 keep it as close as possible, just have 2 take care off her a bit more than the others no biggy, i just hope she smokes well,lol.
im still workin on the new phone 2 keep u in the light, cause without pics u cant really help me, tghe pics from the phone r 2 shite 2 put up. so ill get them up asap.
21/2week in2 flowerin so i need comments, and advice so i need 2 get a decent cam
peace

[Max Blast]

Hardon,

Just for the record my current (and first indoor) grow is one plant from a seed from a hermie. I got it from a grower with a very large production facility that uses clones only. No matter what, all big growers will get a few seeds from hermies from time to time. It is just part of Mother Natures survival system for the species.

The point is that my plant turned out to be female with no hermie tendancies at all. Although I cannot say that ALL seeds from hermies will be female, I can say that they will not ALL be hermie.

Hope this lends some insight,
Max Blast

[HARDDON]

So you are saying hermie seeds dont guarantee hermie plants....

Therefor, its prolly a good thing then if you get a good plant with heavy trichomes but its a hermie to let it grow.

It will pollinate itself and thus produce good viable seeds.

Is this correct?

[Max Blast]

Hardon,

All I can say is what I have experienced so far. My plant came from a seed from a hermie and it produced a female with heavy trichomes and no hermie tendancies (I am about 7 weeks into 12/12)

I would be a little nervous about leaving a hermie in the same room with prized females as I would think it might be possible for the hermie to also pollinate the others. But, that has not been my friends experience in his 185 plant grow room. He was a little surprised that I got even a few seeds out of his crop.

As I said it is my belief that all large grows will produce at least a few seeds and it is a crap shoot as to the gender of the resulting plant. I just got lucky that mine turned out to be female. Other than my personal experience with this one seed and one plant all else is just conjecture.

hope this helps a little bit,
Max Blast

[red662]

Hardon,

All I can say is what I have experienced so far. My plant came from a seed from a hermie and it produced a female with heavy trichomes and no hermie tendancies (I am about 7 weeks into 12/12)

I would be a little nervous about leaving a hermie in the same room with prized females as I would think it might be possible for the hermie to also pollinate the others. But, that has not been my friends experience in his 185 plant grow room. He was a little surprised that I got even a few seeds out of his crop.

As I said it is my belief that all large grows will produce at least a few seeds and it is a crap shoot as to the gender of the resulting plant. I just got lucky that mine turned out to be female. Other than my personal experience with this one seed and one plant all else is just conjecture.

hope this helps a little bit,
Max Blastmax u say u r 7 weeks in2 flowerin, how long r u gonna flower 4? have u started flushin yet??
just wonderin, i was thinkin off harvestin between 6-8 weeks, the last grow with the same weed(skunk special 50-50) it took the same time and it turned well, it even says it on the card from sierious seeds 2 flower 4 between 6-8 weeks. is it ur experiance 2 flower longer 4 better results r has cercumstance dictated this?

[Max Blast]

Since this is my first indoor grow (and my first grow in about 30 years) I am just guessing when to do what. I am going by the advice here on the boards but I find the "words of wisdom" from Zandor and Garden Knowm are probably the most valuable to me so far.

I am going to flush with water today to help eliminate any possible salts buildup from the fert I used and will probably harvest sometime next week. Heck, I'm just guessing like most of us.

I will then try to re-veg this baby to get some clones for a new grow. Hope that works. Still hoping to hear from someone with experience on this subject.

regards,
Max Blast

[HARDDON]

FOr the first time harvesters...

When you are absolutely, positively ready to harvest, wait one more week :D

Was some good advice I read somewhere from someone and can vouch for its veracity.

[litespeed]

Looking good HD,

im putting a smoke alarm over my flowering chamber ....just in case shit happens

i read (i dunno if its true or not) that if a female plant turns out to be a hermie, and it pollinates itself, all the seeds will be female...i know there is then a possibilty of genetic probs, but.... all female seeds :)

:D :D :D


Pubdate: 1947
Source: The Yearbook of Agriculture; 1943-1947, United States Department

of Agriculture
Author: H.A. Borthwick, USDA Senior Botanist in the Bureau of Plant Industry,

Soils, and Agricultural Engineering
Pages: 282-283

DAY LENGTH AND FLOWERING - HEMP

Most rapid progress in breeding plants can be made with those that can be

self-pollinated. Hemp, obviously, can be self-pollinated only when it produces

these occasional additional flowers of the opposite sex. The advantage of

being able to increase their tendency to form these flowers is apparent.

Dr. Hugh C. McPhee of the Department made use of this behavior of hemp

several years ago.''' He used the pollen of the male flowers that were

produced in small numbers on certain of the female plants to self-pollinate

those plants. When he grew the resulting seeds he made the important

discovery that all of the plants were female. We have recently produced

several thousand seeds in this way and have not obtained a single male plant,

thus thoroughly confirming Dr. McPhee's observations'''.

Under greenhouse conditions, with proper control of temperature and day

length, a very high percentage of female plants produced enough male

flowers so that self-pollination could be effected, and in certain experimental

lots of female plants produced out-of-doors in late summer when days were

short and nights were cool, enough male flowers were formed so that natural

pollination occurred and a quantity of pure "female" seed was produced.

These results suggest that a locality can be found in which the conditions are

favorable to the formation of these intersex male flowers on female plants in

sufficient quantity that a good crop of seed could be obtained. If this could be

done, a means would be at hand to produce commercial quantities of

"female" seed, thereby enabling growers to produce a pure stand of female

plants. Such pure stands would result in a more uniform fiber crop and

eliminate certain harvest problems. The basis for developing such a

procedure lies in finding in nature a combination of environmental factors

similar to that which, under experimental conditions, has resulted in formation

of abundant male flowers.


http://www.hempology.org/ALL%20HIST...LES.HTML/1947US

DAFLOWERING.html


http://www.hempology.org/ALLARTICLES.html
__________________

[HARDDON]

FUCK :(

Why did I kill my hermies.......

Wait....I think I kept one just for shits and grins and if the dogs havent gotten to it, or the bugs, I need to flower it for sure.....

Great post and THANKS....even if it is a little late :)...lol....

[HARDDON]

UPDATES....

They are growing sideways now on some of them...lol...

I have them hooked, slanted and bent every which way I can....cept for one special one.

[cannabuds]

looken real good Hard On been a while since last upadt right?
well i think its looken great

[Heads4]

Harddon

Curious as to why you haven't covered those containers to prevent light from getting at the roots.

You dont want your roots turning into stems :eek:

[HARDDON]

Heads....

They are all either painted white or duct taped.

I have one that I have not covered, on purpose....it is in a green mountain dew bottle and I want to see if the green bottle will protect the roots from the UV-A rays....

I think they will....wont know til the end, but, thanks for noticing and asking.

I will post the results.

I think if they do protect the roots, that opens up a whole new game for me to think about for containers and various possibilities.

[Zandor]

Hardon,

Just for the record my current (and first indoor) grow is one plant from a seed from a hermie. I got it from a grower with a very large production facility that uses clones only. No matter what, all big growers will get a few seeds from hermies from time to time. It is just part of Mother Natures survival system for the species.

The point is that my plant turned out to be female with no hermie tendancies at all. Although I cannot say that ALL seeds from hermies will be female, I can say that they will not ALL be hermie.

Hope this lends some insight,
Max Blast
Where have I hears some of that before???

heheh Max is correct in his information HD. The sex of the plant is in the RNA and not the DNA so the seed has no sex. The only thing a hermie seed from a hermie mother will just have a higher percentage of being a hermie is all not guaranteed

[latewood]

Hey H, Everybody, I see you have got your hands full :D ...must be a bitch to have such a limited area, when you've got such nice fruits :p Just thought I would drop by and see what's up...Keep up the good work, my friend...hush me your safaddee and I'll send you something...Mongo's dry and I'm gonna post pic of her hangin :eek: ...check it out :cool:

[HARDDON]

THX MAX AND ZANDOR.

I was still reading up on this other stuff from the post about hermie seeds being 100% female....sounds like a win win situation although I dont see how that is possible.

Here are some new pics I stole from some asshole weed grower to update the thread.

Here is a pic of an attempted SOG...actually if they all turned out like this I would be happy as pig shit. (wait that didnt make sense...is pig shit happy)?

Anyhow, here is a 23" stick that will be all bud in the next 5 weeks. And a close up of her tip and the colors......I think it looks cool.

I think the grower can fatten this one up to 3/4 oz for its done....

[HARDDON]

More pics I stole....hey they didnt have copyright on them so fuck that grower :D


Here is an interesting discovery I made last week....I dont know if the grower knows he gotsa hermie.

[HARDDON]

This one will yeild a nice 1/4 oz...if I had a pic of 21 of these, it would have been sweet, but the grower claims this one grew really slow.

Nice trichs too.

[latewood]

BADASS Is the Plant in the DARK...What's up Buddy...I'm trying to Kill all my plants; have you heard?

On the Hermie debate...I believe if you treat the plants with care and don't stress them, you get more females...I have seeds from past grows that came from a bodacious plant(from friend breeding) and got almost all females...It wasn't until after a couple of mishaps and some Duh'm ASS trimming that I got Hermie's, So, YES, I believe if that thing is looking good, then let it finish and save the few seeds you get; for a rainy day :)

[HARDDON]

Here the grower had to bend them all to keep them under control. You can see the one he went too far and them snapped in half, but all he did was insert a stick into the middle tube, put aluminum tape around the wound and viola!

Never missed a beat.

All these had to be bent and tied as flower cycle made them take off rather unexpectedly.... Otherwise these would all be single sticks with a strand of bud from top to bottom.

[HARDDON]

I just thought this pic was cool.

[HARDDON]

This is the dog shit smelling one.

So disgusting I can imagine the grower has a pathetic love hate relationship with her.

But up close, she is so impressive.

She is getting a heavy duty dose of soil aeration and lava powder fill tomorrow.

[Melton420]

nice grow hardon