What's your view on capitol punishment?

[mrdevious]

Last night I was just watching some movie with Shawn Pen (just caught the end) where he's on death row. at the end he was tied up to this table, he was lifted up on it in front of a bunch of people where he could say some last words, then he was injected by some machine with a crap load of different chemicals.

During the movie, his whole execution seemed really horrific and inhumane, but when they flashed back to his murder, it seemed equally horrific and inhumane. I started thinking about capitol punishment after seeing the movie, and I gotta admit I'm not really sure where I stand on it. so I was just wondering what your views/opinions/arguments about capitol punishment are.


And just a note people, differences in opinion don't necessarily require an angry yelling match and insults flying everywhere.

[MNgreen]

IMO, if someone intenionally kills someone else they deserve to have the same done to them.

MNgreen


PS. Bring on the firing squad

[Bonez87x]

"Do onto others as you wish others onto you."

[NextGen]

It serves its purpose.

[Lily420]

Yes, those people kill innocent people in most cases, they deserve to die too.

[NoosaHeads]

Compaired to when they traided in the Hang mans Rope to the electric chair.
the lethal injection is an easy way out..

Imo.
Rockspiders.(pedaphiles).
rapists and cold blooded killers get all they they deserve..

[zarathustra]

I would loooooooooooooooooooove to see a public execution with a guillotine.

That alone influences my support of the whole shabangabang.

[mrdevious]

wow, this has been considerably more one-sided than expected.

[Psycho4Bud]

Guilty of murder. Death sentence

Proclaims innocense: Lie detector /sodium pentathol
Passed: life in prison
Flunk: Go to the chair immediately...no fuck around time in a cell!

Doesn't deny guilt: Go to "Flunk" :D

[screwedcork]

how sure can you ever be that someone is guilty?
think about it

[mrdevious]

Guilty of murder. Death sentence

Proclaims innocense: Lie detector /sodium pentathol
Passed: life in prison
Flunk: Go to the chair immediately...no fuck around time in a cell!

Doesn't deny guilt: Go to "Flunk" :D


Lie detectors aren't dependable at all, they should have no place in court and sentencing. Psychopaths are also the most adept at fooling them.

[Psycho4Bud]

how sure can you ever be that someone is guilty?
think about it

Witnesses, fingerprints, etc...... beyond a shadow of a doubt or they shouldn't even be locked up.

[Hempamasta]

I'm not touching this topic with a ten-foot pole.

[Mojavpa]

how sure can you ever be that someone is guilty?
think about it


Exactly. There is no way to be 100% sure. Even with DNA, the results can be fixed.

[Mojavpa]

Witnesses, fingerprints, etc...... beyond a shadow of a doubt or they shouldn't even be locked up.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt? Yeah, 12 people who sometimes have no idea what they're doing shouldnt decide if a person should be put to death. Theres a reason there was a moratoriam placed on the death penalty in Illinois.

[NoosaHeads]

Lets Get Back to Basics...

an eye for an eye....

[NowhereMan]

rapist proved by dna
kill em
molesters of children KILL THEM ALL take no chances
cold blooded killers
need cold blooded killed.(irony huh)

GIVING THE FLAWS IN THE SYSTEM ITS SCARY
but i dont want them housed on my dime forever,
then agian it cost more to execute a killer than to feed him till he dies in prison of misery and discomfort.

honestly i think we
SHOULD PUNISH THE CAPITOL

[NowhereMan]

Exactly. There is no way to be 100% sure. Even with DNA, the results can be fixed.
when some kid says so and so raped me and you find his dna
there can be no doubt about it in my head
or they find dna in dead body ect.
my god folks there must be retrobution or VIGILANTEE justice will take over.

anyone hurts my family ,wont need a trial if i get a shot at him/her

my state has no capitol punishment but, the feds can step in on some crimes

you wont shoot a cop,and live to long,ect

[chonged]

dont kill them...carry out medical experiments on them

[Reefer Rogue]

Lie detectors aren't dependable at all, they should have no place in court and sentencing. Psychopaths are also the most adept at fooling them.

Yea, coz lie detecters aren't like 99% accurate are they :rolleyes: Ooh look at me i'm a psychopath, i can EASILY 'Fool' them. It's a machine >_<

I agree with capitol punishment against murderers, peedos, and all that jazz.
I also would not mind seeing a guy on the guillatine. :D

[buddymyfriend]

"Do onto others as you wish others onto you."




Hell yeah, if only everyone thought like this!

Nuff said

Buddy

[Fengzi]

I lived for a while in a country that has very harsh punishments for hard crimes and is pretty quick to execute those guilty of capital crimes. A lot of peole like to put them down for human rights abuses, blah, blah blah. But I'll tell you this: I lived in a huge fucking city, 14 million people, filled with slums, poor people etc. Just what you'd expect to find in a city that big. But I could walk down any street in the city, at any time of the day or night, without having any concern for my personal safety. The worst thing that might happen would be getting my pocket picked (actually happened to my wife) but even that is pretty rare. Can we say that about any big city here in the U.S.?

Bottom line is that punishments for criminals here in the U.S are not hard enough. People might think twice about raping and murdering a little girl if they knew with out a doubt that they'd be executed for it, immediately after the trial. So I say execution for criminals who are convicted of capital crimes(murder, rape, any crime against children, etc) and hard labor for those convicted of any violent crime(armed robbery, serious battery, etc). And no more tv, cigarettes, nice shit sent from home, visits, etc. No more time in the weight room, in the yard, socializing with your homies, etc. You are a criminal, you lost your rights,you will serve your sentence in a 6x6 cell and never leave it. If you don't like it FUCK YOU!! You should have thought about that before you did your crime.

Meanwhile, decriminalize victimless crimes-drug use, prostitution etc. There's no sense penalizing people and sending them to jail for crimes against themselves.

[Mojavpa]

"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"-Mahatma Gandhi

[Az.]

dont kill them...carry out medical experiments on them
yeah thats what i would waNt done....or to be put it to little cells on their own for the rest of their lives.....like that big prison thing that was out at sea.....begins with A....but yeah all alone with no outside contact so they can reflect on what they have done.

[Warlock]

The death sentence doesn't exist in England, & that is the reason why prisons are full. People that mug someone or steal a car or beat the shit out of someone don't get sent to prison because it is full of murderers & rapists.
These murderers & rapists need to be killed, & because they're not innocent people are being mugged knowing they will get away with it in the english justice system

[NowhereMan]

I lived for a while in a country that has very harsh punishments for hard crimes and is pretty quick to execute those guilty of capital crimes. A lot of peole like to put them down for human rights abuses, blah, blah blah. But I'll tell you this: I lived in a huge fucking city, 14 million people, filled with slums, poor people etc. Just what you'd expect to find in a city that big. But I could walk down any street in the city, at any time of the day or night, without having any concern for my personal safety. The worst thing that might happen would be getting my pocket picked (actually happened to my wife) but even that is pretty rare. Can we say that about any big city here in the U.S.?

Bottom line is that punishments for criminals here in the U.S are not hard enough. People might think twice about raping and murdering a little girl if they knew with out a doubt that they'd be executed for it, immediately after the trial. So I say execution for criminals who are convicted of capital crimes(murder, rape, any crime against children, etc) and hard labor for those convicted of any violent crime(armed robbery, serious battery, etc). And no more tv, cigarettes, nice shit sent from home, visits, etc. No more time in the weight room, in the yard, socializing with your homies, etc. You are a criminal, you lost your rights,you will serve your sentence in a 6x6 cell and never leave it. If you don't like it FUCK YOU!! You should have thought about that before you did your crime.

Meanwhile, decriminalize victimless crimes-drug use, prostitution etc. There's no sense penalizing people and sending them to jail for crimes against themselves.

please come here and be my congressman
west virginia needs you
or senator (have ya seen sen Robert Byrd on tv the old drunk KKK member)

when they would punish me for smoking my meds the same as a child rapist
YOU KNOW SOMETHING NEEDS FIXED

is why i have no respect for THE rules,the rules they have do not protect me.
i must protect me and mine not only from criminals but from those who's job it it to protect me.

it just aint right ,and i keep a loaded gun in my house,and alot of times on me when i leave here to go anywhere becuase i know whats out there,

a real true criminal dont care about punishment,its a risk they except.

[ermitonto]

I don't see what's wrong with killing murderers. But I disagree with the capital punishment as enacted by the government, since it completely ignores mass murderers and terrorists like Bush who happen to be rich and/or in high positions of power.

[F L E S H]

I don't see what's wrong with killing murderers. But I disagree with the capital punishment as enacted by the government, since it completely ignores mass murderers and terrorists like Bush who happen to be rich and/or in high positions of power.
Yup, when poor colored people do it it's called murder and everyone agrees they should be put to death. But when rich white men do it, it's war, it's bringing freedom, it's in our best interest. Double standard? Naaaah.... Couldn't possibly exist...

[Fengzi]

a real true criminal dont care about punishment,its a risk they except.

Exactly, because the punsihment isn't harsh enough. For a lot of these guys a few years in prison is the price they are willing to pay if they get caught. No different than being willing to pay $10 to go see a movie.

It's all just marketing. Everything has a value. If you produce a product you want to determine the value and price it at the maximum amount people would be willing to pay or a bit lower. Never higher or the product won't sell. Now reverse that and apply it to crime. What's the value of robbing a bank? If it's two years in a cushy prison then set the penalty at 10 years of hard labor. The value of robbing the bank is not worth the potentail price to pay.

Of course there are real sickos out there. Someone who thinks their dog is the reincarnation of Jesus and is telling them to kill people really don't give much thought to what will happen to them if they're caught. But these types are few and far between and, once caught, will soon learn that electricity is not their friend.

[ganjaman67]

Lets Get Back to Basics...

an eye for an eye....
I agree

[Nochowderforyou]

I'm all for capital punishment, and I think it should be exercised more often other than Texas. When a person kills someone, he not only takes the life of someone, but he shatters the remaining family members lives. He ruins a whole family, and friends.

Also, an eye for an eye. Someone kills someone, that killer should be killed in front of the remaining family members and friends. May sound harsh, but really, think about it. These killers take the life of someone, ruin the family and friends lives, so we send him to prison for 40 years where they cloth, feed, shelter, cable TV, among other things, for free. We keep these scum alive when they should be killed off. They are doing no good sitting in prison but getting drugs, and a good education on crime.

Kill them I say. Kill the killers.

[NextGen]

"Do onto others as you wish others onto you."


Hell yeah, if only everyone thought like this!

Nuff said

Buddy

Does that pertain to crazys too. Do the crazy sick and twisted get this privelage.

I also think the proof needs to be 100% for Capital Punish.

[GHoSToKeR]

Killing is wrong. We all learn as kids that two wrongs don't make a right. I think alot of people need to remember that.

[xNoa]

I'm all for capital punishment, and I think it should be exercised more often other than Texas. When a person kills someone, he not only takes the life of someone, but he shatters the remaining family members lives. He ruins a whole family, and friends.



but what if the person thats been killed has no family? theres so many different possibilitys that can happen with murder, and more death wont solve anything.. besides a life sentence isnt going to be more fun is it now, dieings just an quick way out, and to be honest i wouldnt feel safe knowing the government has the right to kill people, because quite simply they do not.

[Fengzi]

Killing is wrong. We all learn as kids that two wrongs don't make a right. I think alot of people need to remember that.
Do you kill roaches in your house, a mosquito that bites you? What makes these killers and child rapists and different that any other common household pests? Killing/hurting innocent people is wrong. I see nothing wrong with killing off the pests in society.

[powair]

Capital punishment is sick and dysfuntional beyond words.

[GHoSToKeR]

Do you kill roaches in your house, a mosquito that bites you? What makes these killers and child rapists and different that any other common household pests? Killing/hurting innocent people is wrong. I see nothing wrong with killing off the pests in society.
I'm against killing anything, in fact. I don't even eat meat, for fucks sake.

[Canadabis]

Well here is how I see it.

I dont think that any level of government should ever be allowed to kill. I also think that someone should not live if they killl, or commit serious crimes. However that is what I think, but I also think that there is a higher power that really would rather not we snuff out one another and mess with the cycles its set in motion. So I aquiesce to that higher power, I don't agree with killing, though man I still get right bent out of shape watching the news and whatnot, some serious sickos out there, so hard not to want them dead at the hands of the state.

[GHoSToKeR]

I see nothing wrong with killing off the pests in society.
Don't you see that, to millions and millions of people in every country, we are the pest of society because we use drugs? In Indonesia you can get the death penalty for supplying certain drugs; do you think this is justified? They are only killing off the pests in their society

[ermitonto]

I don't eat meat either, but I still don't see why murdering murderers is wrong. If somebody stole something from you, you'd steal it back wouldn't you? But that second act of stealing isn't a "second wrong", it is a corrective measure. Murderers need to be treated differently from non-murderers, and frankly I think instant death is more humane (not to mention much less of a burden on society) than sticking them inside a dingy prison for the rest of their lives.

Some people just plain don't deserve to live. For instance, if Hitler had been captured alive, would you suggest life imprisonment or some similar punishment? Me, I think he should have been subjected to a long, painful, torturous death for his crimes.

[GHoSToKeR]

"I still don't see why murdering murderers is wrong"

Because you are committing the act you are punishing them for. No matter how much you bureaucratize and sterilise it you are still committing murder. A government can not prophess a certain act to be the worst act one can commit, and then punish that act with the same act. It is hypocritical and, well, just plain stupid.

If government and society wants it's citizens to believe that murder is wrong then fair enough, you won't get any objections here. But executing somebody for murder is as ridiculous as a parent who spanks their children for fighting, and tells them that violence is wrong.

[GHoSToKeR]

I think he should have been subjected to a long, painful, torturous death for his crimes.
Well there you go, my friend. This is where our difference of opinion lies. I would never and will never wish death upon anybody or anything, no matter what their crime. To punish somebody for murder or something equally disgusting by means of murder or something equally as disgusting is disgusting. Those are the simplest terms I can put it in.

[ermitonto]

Certainly the ability to kill should not be entrusted to governments. I agree with you there. Power corrupts, and when people in power are given the means to kill they abuse it.

But the way I see it, a community killing a killer is a collective act of self-defense. If I had to kill somebody to keep them from killing me, I would do it.

Obviously something has to be done about the murderers. No matter what you decide to do to them, be it killing them or confining them in a small and unpleasant place, it would be a "crime" to commit that act upon an innocent person. But murderers are different and need to be held up to different standards.

[robert42]

england is a flop

shame on us

[ermitonto]

Let me put it this way:

Say you are in a room with four other people. One person takes out a knife and stabs another one to death, then starts approaching you and the other two. Now say you have a gun, and the three of you have to decide before he gets there whether you're going to shoot him or let him stab you all. Is it wrong to shoot him to protect the three of you?

[GHoSToKeR]

If governments were to grow the fuck up and stop punishing and inprisoning people for consensual crimes, then it we could free up something like %80 of all jails in the world. Then we could afford to jail every rapist and murderer in the world. The way we're going though, we're releasing rapists and murderers early so that we can through a few extra stoners in jail.

[Fengzi]

"I still don't see why murdering murderers is wrong"

Because you are committing the act you are punishing them for. .

No, no,no, no. Execution is the punishment for commiting a horrific crime against an innocent person. The killers are not innocent and that is the fundemantal difference.

[Fengzi]

If governments were to grow the fuck up and stop punishing and inprisoning people for consensual crimes, then it we could free up something like %80 of all jails in the world. Then we could afford to jail every rapist and murderer in the world. The way we're going though, we're releasing rapists and murderers early so that we can through a few extra stoners in jail.

Gotta agree with you on this one Ghost.

[xNoa]

Let me put it this way:

Say you are in a room with four other people. One person takes out a knife and stabs another one to death, then starts approaching you and the other two. Now say you have a gun, and the three of you have to decide before he gets there whether you're going to shoot him or let him stab you all. Is it wrong to shoot him to protect the three of you?
well thatd be perfect self defence..

[GHoSToKeR]

Let me put it this way:

Say you are in a room with four other people. One person takes out a knife and stabs another one to death, then starts approaching you and the other two. Now say you have a gun, and the three of you have to decide before he gets there whether you're going to shoot him or let him stab you all. Is it wrong to shoot him to protect the three of you? No, it's not. In fact it would be the logical course of action to take, and I would take it myself. As much as I would never wish to kill anybody, in that situation, yes, I would do it.

However, if we take that same situation with a different conclusion;

In a room with three other people. One murders another. You have a gun but the murderer does not attempt to harm anybody else, is restrained and no longer poses a threat to any of you. Would you still shoot him?

If your answer is yes than you'll see why execution in todays society is wrong. We have the means to punish these people without resorting to murder ourselves. Execution these days is NOT for our protection. Executions are solely for vindication of the victims.. in other words, to satisfy the victims or relatives thirst for this person's blood. How is society and humanity ever going to improve in any positive way when we are still quenching this thirst for blood that seems to lie dormant within so many of us?

Surely we should be teaching children that killing another human is wrong and then setting a good example. It sends mixed messages when a government murders a murderer and even more mixed messages when normal, every day kinda people are cheering and jeering for somebody to be executed.

Yes, murderers should be removed from society so that they can no longer harm anybody else, but to murder them would serve absolutely no purpose other than to satisfy some sick, barbaric desire. THAT is what we need to kill.

[Fengzi]

Surely we should be teaching children that killing another human is wrong and then setting a good example. It sends mixed messages when a government murders a murderer and even more mixed messages when normal, every day kinda people are cheering and jeering for somebody to be executed.

Yes, murderers should be removed from society so that they can no longer harm anybody else, but to murder them would serve absolutely no purpose other than to satisfy some sick, barbaric desire. THAT is what we need to kill.

The message I want to be sending to the children is that if they kill an innocent person they'll have a shitload of electricity pumped throught their body.

My whole argument for execution is not so much vindication as it is deterence. If it were vindication I could come up with a lot better ways to deal with these criminals. Execution is really the easy way out but the the fear of death is much more powerful psychologically. If we could come up with an alternative punishment that would be as psychologically deterring as execution I'd be all for it. I'm sure all those prisoner rights groups out there would have issue with that as well though.

[GHoSToKeR]

Hey, i'm not part of those 'prisoner rights groups' if that's what you're suggesting. I'm just a guy who doesn't like the thought of anybody killing anybody. Yes, some people are fucking scumbags who kill people, but that doesn't excuse normal, sane people from allowing other normal, sane people to kill. :(

[Fengzi]

Hey, i'm not part of those 'prisoner rights groups' if that's what you're suggesting. I'm just a guy who doesn't like the thought of anybody killing anybody. Yes, some people are fucking scumbags who kill people, but that doesn't excuse normal, sane people from allowing other normal, sane people to kill. :(
No Ghost, I'm not trying to imply that at all. I also totally understand your position. Ideally no one would have to be killed. I just feel that if even one little child's life could be saved, because the sick twisted fuck who was thinking of killing them thought twice about it because they knew they'd face a certain and quick execution if caught, it would be worthwhile.

[NextGen]

put them on the north pole. :D

[Mojavpa]

I don't eat meat either, but I still don't see why murdering murderers is wrong. If somebody stole something from you, you'd steal it back wouldn't you? But that second act of stealing isn't a "second wrong", it is a corrective measure. Murderers need to be treated differently from non-murderers, and frankly I think instant death is more humane (not to mention much less of a burden on society) than sticking them inside a dingy prison for the rest of their lives.

Some people just plain don't deserve to live. For instance, if Hitler had been captured alive, would you suggest life imprisonment or some similar punishment? Me, I think he should have been subjected to a long, painful, torturous death for his crimes.

You just contradicted yourself. You think instant death is more humane than sticking someone in prison for the rest of their lives, but you think Hitler should have been put to death instead of being put in prison, or are you saying a long, tortuous death is more humane than a life long prison sentence? Why make a exception in case of Hitler? When does a killer become special enough to be subjected to torture? And if you think the death penalty is more humane than a prison sentence, why not advocate a less harsh prison system?

[flamingskullballs]

yeah thats what i would waNt done....or to be put it to little cells on their own for the rest of their lives.....like that big prison thing that was out at sea.....begins with A....but yeah all alone with no outside contact so they can reflect on what they have done.

Alcatraz babe, Alcatraz (sorry if you happen to be a man)

i think that capital punishment is a somewhat-decent record by megadeth

[Mojavpa]

No Ghost, I'm not trying to imply that at all. I also totally understand your position. Ideally no one would have to be killed. I just feel that if even one little child's life could be saved, because the sick twisted fuck who was thinking of killing them thought twice about it because they knew they'd face a certain and quick execution if caught, it would be worthwhile.

Theres no evidence that the death penalty in the US is a deterrent. If we changed the death penalty system so a convicted criminal would be instantly put to death, instead of waiting twenty something years and exhausting all his appeals, more innocent people would be put to death because sometimes a crucial piece of evidence to vindicate a prisoner isnt discovered until years later.

[flamingskullballs]

hey NextGen, you live in mandan??? ive been there the last couple of years for Grind Your Face Off

[mrdevious]

Yea, coz lie detecters aren't like 99% accurate are they :rolleyes: Ooh look at me i'm a psychopath, i can EASILY 'Fool' them. It's a machine >_<


well gee jiminy wilickers, you sure put me in my place :rolleyes:

yep, 99% accurate, did you get that off the talkshow murray, or perhapse in a crime t.v. show? I mean after all, you can't fool a machine!

now if you actually knew anything about them you'd know that their accuracy is constantly debated by professionsals, the claimed accuracy ranges from 60-90%, and YES, believe it or not you can fool them, especially psychopaths. A "Lie detector" measures physiological responses, which are persperation and heart rate, which are most consistent with deceptive behavior. These responses are the result of a person feeling guilty, or fear of being caught in a lie. Psychopaths are notoriously good at fooling them because they lack the emotional response from lying, and the prisons are full of people who convince themselves of their own bullshit, convincing themselves and others of their innocence. if lie detectors were indeed 99% accurate, we'd be swearing on the holy polygraph, rather than the bible, and lie detectors wouldn't be non-admissable in court as they are today.

perhapse you should do some research before talking to me like a jackass.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph

[Fengzi]

Theres no evidence that the death penalty in the US is a deterrent. If we changed the death penalty system so a convicted criminal would be instantly put to death, instead of waiting twenty something years and exhausting all his appeals, more innocent people would be put to death because sometimes a crucial piece of evidence to vindicate a prisoner isnt discovered until years later.

I agree that the death penalty in the U.S is not a deterrent. My whole point is that the punishments for any crimes are no longer a deterrent because they are not harsh enough and there are too many loopholes to getting out of them. As I mentioned before, I lived in a country that is always on the shit list of human rights groups becasue of its treatment of convicted criminals but at the same time has incredibly little crime. I'm sure part of it is cultural but I can't believe that knowing what faces you if caught isn't a big factor as well.

I do see your point about innocent people being put to death. But there are a lot of cases where there simply is no doubt about who did it. So maybe the instant death penalty is restricted to those "smoking gun" cases. Also, with some of the advances in DNA testing I would think cases would be a bit more concrete.

There's an old Chinese saying "Kill the snake to startle the monkey" . Well, we've got a lot of naughty monkeys in this country so it's time to kill some snakes.

[FunkyMonkey]

This is a hard one.
While in my heart I feel we should eliminate certain elements from the earth, like murderers, rapists and pedophiles, many systems of 'justice' are too flawed to guarentee we have the right person. Too many people are punished for crimes they did not commit. Its one thing to toss someoen in jail by mistake but to kill them is irreversable.
If we had a perfect system for administering justice I would be all for immediate execution of violent and sexual offences against children for sure.
Murder is a thing that is tricky since so much can happen that could lead up to a death that is not quantifiable in court but I say mass murderers/ serial killers should go for sure.

[NextGen]

hey NextGen, you live in mandan??? ive been there the last couple of years for Grind Your Face Off

:rolleyes: maybe :cool:

I'm guessing grind your face off is a skateboarding event. :)