Slow death

[Marc Benson]

I've come to the conclusion that this plant is on it's way out. Really bums me out too as it's the first female I've had show it's head. I think it may have been pH that's hammered it as I haven't been fertilizing these things hardly at all (maybe that's the problem!) so it can't be fert burn. No way. And no I haven't been using Miracle Grow. Flushed it with pH adjusted water (6.6+) but that was only a few days ago but I thought that would take care of the necrosis and overall unhappy look of the fans. Not. In fact it seems like it's creeping into the secondary growth shoots too which is a real bummer. Anyone have any ideas?

Soil grow

405 watts of CFL's

75-80 degrees

46 days old

17 days in flower (since showed sex)

Have been giving it a low to medium dose of Schultz Cactus 2-7-7 once a week

Watering by weight

Water pH was high 7.5+ but gave it some adjusted water 6.6 last time which was a few days ago.

Other plant is fine although flowering super slow. Different strain. Don't know what strain these are. Bag seed.


Thanks!

[rysk8er420]

Maybe since it's not a cactus, i wouldnt use cactus ferts... And also u should consider using organic ferts like guanos, fish, seaweed, worm-castings, etc.

What size pots do u have the plants in, and whens the last time u repotted?

Did u mix anything into the soil, or just use straight storebought?

[mand]

Oh dear Marc :( , it's really upseting to see Amanda like that :( (is it Amanda?)


When I posted the question regarding the light bulb's I lost a crop and they looked exactely like that but they died very quickly.
My problem was that the bulbs were old and worn out :o Are yours ok?

Just a thought Marc :) .......................love mand xxx :)

[Slimpickuns]

Marc, I've been having the same problem, I think its either Nute burn or the pest spray i've been using, but i'm still not sure.

Mand, can light difficiancy cause such a problem?

[Marc Benson]

rysk8er420 thanks for the response.

Maybe since it's not a cactus, i wouldnt use cactus ferts... And also u should consider using organic ferts like guanos, fish, seaweed, worm-castings, etc.

A lot of people use the Schultz Cactus and are successful with it. And I've had quite a few people that are what anyone would call 'experts' say that this particular fert is fine to use. But yes, organics would be better. Next time.

What size pots do u have the plants in, and whens the last time u repotted?

Containers are 3 gallon. A size that once again most 'experts' suggest are fine. Transplanted after about 2 weeks after they sprouted.

Did u mix anything into the soil, or just use straight storebought?

No mixing. It's a 'pro mix' from a garden center. All organic no added nutes.

mand thanks for the response.

"My problem was that the bulbs were old and worn out Are yours ok?"

All bulbs are brand new. I had someone suggest this affliction was caused by lack of light but I've see a number of very successful grows with less than what I'm using. And I've got the bulbs right down on them with plenty of air movement. I've ruled out light starvation.

And yes...alas...it is Amanda.

Slimpickuns thanks for the response.

"I think its either Nute burn or the pest spray i've been using"

Can't be nute burn as I haven't fertilized it much. Could be a nute deficiency though because we newbies get hammered with "DON'T NUTE!" all the time. I think sometimes people then take it to the extreme and starve the plants. I had one plant that I hammered with ferts and it grew like you wouldn't believe. Then started reading everyones suggestions and cut that way back. Kinda makes a person think sometimes. But I understand that nute burn is a reality for a lot of people so it is a concern for all to consider.

As for the pest control spray, that's the only thing I can think it might be as I did spray it down with a product called Concern which is an insecticidal soap. Had what's called thrips. Little bastards that will ruin a grow if not kept in check so I had no other recourse but to hammer it. But rinsed it off well with clean water.

All that said I'm going to try some things today as it can't hurt. So will take it out of the grow area and foliar feed/wash the whole plant down. And as an experiment to this 'procedure' I took one of the fans and put it in a concentrated solution of 2-7-7 and water. Paid it right in a big pool of it on a plate. Left it there all night and this morning it actually looked healthier!! And this is one that's been hacked off the plant! So it sort of makes me wonder if it's not just starving. So I'll give it a buffet!

Sorry I'm so long winded. Curse of being able to type fast.

[HARDDON]

MB...

Have you tried taking the plant out of the pot to get a look at its roots structure? Just lift her out and take a pic of the rooting system. the colors of the roots can tell a lot as can the tendens coming off the main root stems can as well.

3 gallons is small...yes its doable as i have done, but i allowed for extra oxygen with the lava rock.....perhaps yours are oxygens starved.

You can take fishing rod and poke long holes all the way thru the soil to improve the O2 flow.

But i would love to see the root system.

Come now, show us amandas pretty little panties :)

[HARDDON]

Oh one more thing MB...

I dont think anyway in hell it is lack of ferts. Lack of ferts usually shows itself in a shitty grow, with few leaves and general lethargy in growth.

Yours appears robust in terms of foilage growth.

Or at least she was at one point. :)

Have you tried calling her dirty names :)

[Marc Benson]

Thanks for the replies HD.

I thought of the roots but so far every plant I've had to trash (males) I've taken the roots out of the soil, washed them off, and had a good look at them. For sure none were ever root bound. But me taking that thing out of the container and trying to take a photo of it while trying to hold it by myself (no one to help) would be about impossible. Might be able to be done but she's right at 30.5" tall right now from dirt to top of her giant resinous cola (ha). With lots of longer secondary shoots. Of course also with giant..resinous..colas. I guess I'm a pussy and scared to try by myself. Sorry.

And yes she has grown fairly well. Have really stayed away from any ferts though. Feeding very sparsely. Have been feeding the two the new pH adjusted water though, so I'm hoping this will help. And as a side note, the other plant, which was perfect with no yellowing or spots or anything, now has some forming that are almost black. Just on the larger fans. Start at the tips and go back towards the stems. And is always interesting that when something like this happens, I've noticed that the two sets of fans opposing each other coming from the same place on the main stem, are the ones to start acting up...together. Almost like something is coming up the main stalk and branching out at those fans specifically. Interesting, but a bummer.

Do you think some Superthrive could help? I know you like that stuff and the roots on your sog look very healthy.

And hey I did throw up some mylar!!! Actually an emergency blanket I had from a hunting trip in the mountains. What a difference that made vs. the back side of foil!! I guess I've learned my lesson there! But a question. I believe this is 1ml stuff. Do you think a cfl lying up against it would melt it? I've got it away from them now but was just a question I had.

And next week I think I'm going to get an HPS!! Yehaa!

Man I'm verbose!!!

[HARDDON]

A CFL can get hot enuff to melt anything, but it depends on the actual true wattage.

My 125W bulbs will leave blisters on my arms, but my 55W will not.

You can always lay some water heater blanket material betweent the bulb and the plastic. The heater blanket will insulate even from the heat of a MH or HPS :)

Superthrive is a great stress reducer / preventer and it couldnt possibly hurt your plants at this stage.

[Marc Benson]

Thanks HD! Nothing's touching now. Just wondered though how tough it was.

But seems like some good news to be told. I was desperate and was going to do something to this plant today. Didn't care if it killed it or made it worse. Something was going to happen. So this is what I did.

Mixed up some 6.6 pH water with 1/2 tsp of dish soap and 28 drops of Schutlz Cactus 2-7-7. Sprayed the crap out of it. Soaked it. Washed off the underneath side of all leaves. Went around it probably three times. Let it sit and dry for about an hour to make sure the flowers were dry inside too so they wouldn't burn when put back under the lights. All newer growth is standing up like it's in 7th Heaven!! Where before it was drooping. So am pumped to see a positive reaction from this foliar feed. Just went in and checked it again and even more leaves are perking up! KICK ASS!!! Maybe there's a light at the end of the tunnel after all. Will keep you informed.

All that said it could still be a root problem as HD suggested. Possibly the plant just couldn't get enough nutrients through the root system as it is and the foliar spray fed it much needed nutes. So will get some Superthrive (if I can find it locally) and start using it in waterings.

Question though for you HD. Do you use it every water? And how much would you use for a plant such as this being it's 48th day and into flower for 15 days? THANKS!!

[HARDDON]

Yes i used superthrive every watering....and sometimes with cunt and whore i had to water 2X a day :)

i always poured just cunt hairs worth in the cap, then dumped the cap in the water.

I would esitmate i used prolly 4-5 drops per gallon. Whether a seedling or full blown mother sized plant, the ratio should be the same.

The amount of water you use will determine how much gets to the plants.

Sounds like the plant is responding. You'll know for sure in a few days.

[fivefingerlid]

not sure but is that container you have it in a clay pot? If it is I believe they can effect your plant(read that somewhere) maybe though? And do you think it could be root bound? :eek: just a couple things you might consider

[Marc Benson]

not sure but is that container you have it in a clay pot? If it is I believe they can effect your plant(read that somewhere) maybe though? And do you think it could be root bound? :eek: just a couple things you might consider

Thanks for the reply.

Container is plastic to look like clay.

"root bound"

As I said up above, it looks like it may have been resolved with the foliar feeding and adjusted water pH, but will give it a few days and see what happens. Will for sure get some Superthrive to see if that helps too.

As an interesting side subject (since we're talking of roots) I think most people only think of roots when they're having a problem and think it's root bound. Probably a good idea for everyone to start promoting healthy roots and things to do for that. A lot of problems might be able to be averted if a little more attention to this very important part of the plant was shown. Especially to new gardeners.

[HARDDON]

Wanna promote healthy roots?

Use Rooting Hormone Powder in your water.

But only like 1X a week other wise your roots will overtake the entire frickin grow!

I should have known better.

Growing all those roots.

What an ass I am :(

[Marc Benson]

So you're suggesting using the hormone AND Superthrive? And why are you an ass?

[AngryJohnny]

how many drops of Cactus Plus are you using per gallon?

[HARDDON]

So you're suggesting using the hormone AND Superthrive? And why are you an ass?

Read the SOG post and you will see how nice those plants and roots deveolped with use of BOTH superthrive and the rooting hormone powder.

[Marc Benson]

28/gallon

[Marc Benson]

But why are you an ass?

[AngryJohnny]

28/gallon

WOW!
Today was my last dose of CP for a grand total of 49 drops since 8/11
20 waterings average 1.25-2.0 gallons

too little? :confused:

[Marc Benson]

Well your grow suggests not AJ. All I went by was the directions on the back and cut it down from there. They suggest 28 drops (1/2 tsp) per gallon of water if you use it every time you water. I don't. But this time I cranked it up a little because I wanted to hammer this thing and either kill it or do some good. The reaction it had so far was that it was a good thing to do. But if you're saying you only used 1.25 - 2 drops per gallon that's like nothing. But again, the size of your buds suggests that you're doing something right!

[HARDDON]

28/gallon

DOH!

Thats a lot of fucking SuperThrive my friend :)

Why am I an ass?

Cuz my SOG situation :(

I don't like learning curves :)

[Marc Benson]

"Thats a lot of fucking SuperThrive my friend"

Schutlz Cactus...not Superthrive.

Not happy with your SOG? Just think with clones you could have 20 of these little jewels growing. ;) 1.5 feet tall. How nice would it be to open the door to the ol' grow room and see 20 of those sitting in there stinking up the house??!!

[HARDDON]

Ahhh you love to torment me dont you MB??? :)

Just pure torment.

I am doing an LST just so I can get the mothers. I shall picketh clones to my hearts delight from this point on.

I got good strains and one under my belt now :)

I am happy with my SOG just dissapointed as well.

[Rezinator]

Can't believe you guys...

Call it a newbster thing but I can't see how I could water my 5 gal pail veggin madame more than once every ten days (figure a gallon and a half of nuted distilled. Bang. Then let her wait for next "feeding".

I have 3/4" holes drilled into the pail with a good 3" of lava rock. She's lookin' good.

But which wise sage so long ago somewhere, farfar away, wait, not that far, hadst typed, "that (s)he who waiteth untilist plant says "I need water", dost the right thing."

But no kiddin around now, in plastic that could be a long time if that plant isn't robustly using more water than it wants (under CFLs anyway).

MB. relate just fine on the wusssin' out there.

So, related to roots and rooting - there's the flexibility of a plastic container as well. Pail won't evaporate off a lot of internal moisture unused by Madame, and what does manage to dry on the outside of the ball passes dangerously dry are directly to the most ambitious of roots. Can't be good. And so on and so on... occured to me, thot I'd mention it.

[Rezinator]

Say. MB.

Help me out with a little odor elimination wisdom.

Somebody had a thread showing the basic charcoal filter made with Bounty Clothes Dryer cloths and duct tape.

My plant smells distinctly skunky (bagseed - lucky maybe) and I don't know what to expect. Am going with the above design since Zandor's or somebody's filter was a little too ambitious this grow.

What are you working with for a carbon filter if addressing that. Can't recall.

[Marc Benson]

Sorry Rez. I don't use any filter system. My situation is such that I can contain the smell but was thinking that if I had to do something it would more apt to be a cover up than trying to eliminate the smell. Sounds like the dryer sheets incorporates that into the filter system. Sorry I can't be of assistance!

[HARDDON]

If you have a nice strongfan that has a high static pressure level, you can buy at The Home Depot, the carbon air filters that you can stack....they are like thin folded sheet of carbon filter...you can vent your exhaust right thru the screens of the carbon filter.

You can find the pckage of carbon filter in the AC/HEATER flter sections...Isle 9.

[Marc Benson]

I do a lot of hunting and there are suits you can buy that are supposed to reduce human scent. But according to the manufacturers and articles I've read on carbon it requires a person to 're-activate' the carbon granules after they've been saturated with whatever scent molecules it's being subjected to. Re-activation is accomplished by heating the garments/carbon. This process 'burns off' the scent molecules by the heating of the carbon. They suggest using a clothes dryer to do so, but carbon, to be cleansed of scent molecules, requires far greater heat than a home clothes dryer can attain. Anyway, that said, it would seem that carbon filters used in the reduction of the smell of mj would also need to be 're-activated' or replaced often. More often than would be financially feasible as within a few minutes the carbon will have absorbed as much/many scent molecules as it can hold and not be able to control the smell of a flowering plant. Carbon is like a sponge. It doesn't destroy scent, but holds it. So I wonder how it's working for the time span that most use them? Sometimes for months. I've never used one though so I'm just offering this info for...who knows why.

[Rezinator]

Mmm.

tks Marc, tks Hard,

Was at HD this morning -- coulda been aisle 9 actually -- and did see an interesting package of carbon something or other filtration material folded up into plastic wrapping - about the size of a beach towel.

Box is built - pics soon - was shopping for ductwork. Got a pint size jar of Carbon last week.

Extensive Data as you mentioned above M, explains why that filter Z or somebody had posted was so elaborate. Layered packets of carbon inside a 4 to 8 inch length of 4" ductwork.

Wonder if anybody has any figures on how often say a packet or a pints worth or a litre's worth of granules might last before activation.

[Marc Benson]

As an update to what's going on with the plant that looked like it was on it's way out...it's better! I've been giving it pH adjusted water going for around 6.5 to 6.7. Also it got down to it's dry weight so I had to water. Figured I'd hammer it again!! Maybe learn something. Maybe burn it. So I gave it a half concentration shot of Schultz 10-54-10 Bloom fert. That was yesterday. Today the main fans that were yellowing and necrotic still are, but they're sticking up in the air like they're really liking the chow and new water! Plus the rest of the plant is also much more 'perky'.

I totally believe that the water pH was the problem. Now with that somewhat cured, the plant's reacting to the ferts that probably never even got used before this as they were being locked out due to the high pH. So a good lesson for you newbies and maybe even some others. Check your pH!!