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Libertarian Toker
06-15-2004, 02:07 PM
What Libertarianism has done for me

http://www.libertyforall.net/frontal.html

In between busy Good Friday family events today I stopped and stared at a Myrtle tree in full bloom. I wondered if there were bees and from a distance I didn't see any, but upon approaching I noticed there were several. When I got within grasping distance of a blossom, I could see and hear the buzz of hundreds of bees.

I've grown so much in my 29 years, and just approaching that buzzing tree so close is proof.

As a child I had a near pathological fear of stinging, buzzing insects. I can remember a day when I was about 7, the first day of spring, warm enough to take out my little pink bike, the training wheels still on it, and try to ride. I was all alone and a disoriented little bumblebee landed on my arm and I froze in absolute terror and waited for my daddy to come out and do something to make the scary crawly thing go away without stinging me. I stood there, over my bike, like a statue for what seemed like 2 hours (in reality probably 5 minutes) before it went away of its own accord. I wasn't even stung by anything until age 12, and though it hurt like an SOB, I survived it and flying buzzy things kind of lost their sting, so to speak. Now, as a woman, I can watch a bumblebee amble along from bloom to bloom and admire his yellow fuzziness and hear his pleasant buzziness. He's really kinda cute, if you give him a chance. And as long as you don't go all psycho and swat at him, he's just going to do what he does and ignore you.

It's a little like converting from Republican to Libertarian, growing up. The liberals are not the flying stinging bees anymore. I don't have this pathological fright every time I hear their rhetoric. I realize that, just like everyone, they are a little right and a little wrong, but I don't have to put my very soul in mortal danger just by listening, reasonably, to their side of the story. They may just have something I agree with in there somewhere and admitting it doesn't contradict everything down to my very moral fiber.

I AM half LIBERAL, half conservative and all freedom loving female. What this means is the epitome of open-mindedness, the freedom to listen and possibly embrace (or NOT embrace) any ideas out there, on the face of them. Before, the game was to figure out is this a "liberal" or a "conservative" plank and then argue myself into why it was angelic or demonic. How confused I was then when the "demonic" seemed more rational... Now I see why. I never was a conservative. I was always a libertarian, before I ever heard the word in high school.

This is me, libertarian, grown-up me, open and embracing all that is logical and beautiful. Not superficially afraid of ideas because of labels. This is the American way, the way that America says that she is, but is actually so viciously divided against herself in this two-party, he-said she-said, vitriol that real diversity is a farce. There is no discussion where there is mindless irrational fear. There is only - Daddy, please get it off!!! Get it off me!!! Daddy
(Kerry? Daddy Bush?) save me from the bad buzzy thing!!! I can't even look at it! There is no meeting of the minds where there is abject terror, and where people are either A or B. And never the twain shall meet.

This is what libertarianism has done for me. It has allowed me to listen to Rush and think, you know, on many things, he's right, but on that, he contradicts himself and is full of bunk. I can also listen to Howard Stern, or Al Franken (or anyone else in the media) and agree with them too. But most of all, I can make up my own mind, starting from embracing the precepts of liberty and human nature and realities of life on this mortal coil.

Listen to the buzzing all around you. They are the ideas that freedom prospers. Yes, they have the capability to sting you, but there is beauty there too. Appreciate it, like an adult, without fear. Open yourself.

Listen, listen to them all. Don't ask if they come from friend or foe, but judge their veracity in their own right, for yourself. Diversify your portfolio of ideas.

Grow up. Stop being afraid.

by Rachel Mills

Torog
06-17-2004, 10:45 AM
I forget,are most Libertarians atheists and believe in a secular society ? I'm pretty sure that most libertarians support freedom of religious belief,but do they secretly desire to transform America,into a secular society ?

Isn't the Libertarian solution to terrorism,one of retreat and isolationism ?

Do Libertarians believe in living a moral life-instead of making the rules up as you go along,like the liberals do ?

Where do y'all stand in regards to gay marriage and abortion ?

How about home-schooling ?

Have a good one...Torog

Libertarian Toker
06-17-2004, 12:53 PM
"are most Libertarians atheists and believe in a secular society ?"

What is it that you mean by secular society? Do you mean would a Libertarian support a theocracy? No. I doub't many Libertarians would support that as a form of government. Do you support the idea that religion should control government? I think you will find that most Libertarians, atheist or not, support Freedom of religion.

"but do they secretly desire to transform America,into a secular society ?"

Secular government yes, society no.

"Isn't the Libertarian solution to terrorism,one of retreat and isolationism ?"

No, it isn't. Unless you call open boarders and free trade Isolationism. Do I think that we need to give up all our Freedoms, and try to take over the world by force to keep US feeling safe? No, I don't. What would Jesus do Torog? Would he lust for war and death, as you do, or would he look for peace and love his enemy? I guess what I am asking is, would Jesus go to war in a far off land to feel safer? If you think Libertarians wouldn't defend this country or our friends in a real time of need, your dead wrong.

"Do Libertarians believe in living a moral life-instead of making the rules up as you go along,like the liberals do ?"

It's not moral to make up a rule? Repo's have made up lots of rules. Does that make them not moral also? The god fearing conservitive extremist's morals don't always seem to be very moral to me. Can you explain to me what you think makes a man a moral man?

"Where do y'all stand in regards to gay marriage and abortion ?"

You know where I stand on those two issues. Would those two issues decide the rest for you? Choice is the abortion position the LP takes. As for gays getting married, I'm not sure there even is an offical postion in the LP on that.

"How about home-schooling ?"

I'm all for it.

Toker

Torog
06-17-2004, 01:17 PM
10-4 ! on the Wake and Bake !! :D !


Daggum Lt, I'm sorry..(not really !)..'cuz I'm stoned and got all mellowed out; lol..and I'll have ta git back atcha later on..when I'm just drinkin coffe..and more redneck-so I can give ya a good reply..as in how I really feel..lol.

Til then...Have a good one..and thanx for your reply...Torog :)

ivani
09-24-2004, 03:18 PM
[
"Where do y'all stand in regards to gay marriage and abortion ?"

You know where I stand on those two issues. Would those two issues decide the rest for you? Choice is the abortion position the LP takes. As for gays getting married, I'm not sure there even is an offical postion in the LP on that.

"How about home-schooling ?"

I'm all for it.

Toker[/QUOTE]

Hey toker....thanks for the nice read.....I would think that the Libertarian position on Gay marriage would almost certainly be one of support. The LP doesn't seem to me to be in the business of bedroom politics.
Ivani

Libertarian Toker
09-24-2004, 03:22 PM
Here is Mikes opinion on gay rights.

http://www.badnarik.org/plans_gayrights.php