Bush and the hurricane

[naturalmystic]

I'm not one of the those people to just find reasons to spout against bush but..

Had he been alittle less concerned with a country that we now know posed no threat to us, and had spent more time working on our economy, there wouldn't be as many people who are right now riding 9 hours to houston. Those who were forced to take shelter in the superdome were very poor and couldn't even get out of the city. I think our country is in terrible shape when people are so poor they can't even leave the city.


On a side question, those of you not in the U.S., how much press is this disaster getting around the world?

[Torog]

I'm not one of the those people to just find reasons to spout against bush but..

Had he been alittle less concerned with a country that we now know posed no threat to us, and had spent more time working on our economy, there wouldn't be as many people who are right now riding 9 hours to houston. Those who were forced to take shelter in the superdome were very poor and couldn't even get out of the city. I think our country is in terrible shape when people are so poor they can't even leave the city.


On a side question, those of you not in the U.S., how much press is this disaster getting around the world?
Howdy natural,

The primary duty of any president,is national security..not redistributing the wealth so that there aren't any poor folks,this is a capitalist country..not a socialist or communist country..and there are still plenty of poor folks in both the former and latter,what's their excuse ?

If you stub yer toe in the morning..do ya blame it on Bush ? I knew that it was only a matter of time before anti-Bush people would try and find a way to blame Bush for a natural disaster. As for the price of gasoline,I blame that on the environazis who have managed to keep new refineries from being built and oil and natural gas fields from being opened and developed,they also have prevented new nuclear plants from being built.

Have a good one....

[LOVElife]

I'm not one of the those people to just find reasons to spout against bush but..

Had he been alittle less concerned with a country that we now know posed no threat to us, and had spent more time working on our economy, there wouldn't be as many people who are right now riding 9 hours to houston. Those who were forced to take shelter in the superdome were very poor and couldn't even get out of the city. I think our country is in terrible shape when people are so poor they can't even leave the city.


On a side question, those of you not in the U.S., how much press is this disaster getting around the world?
I'm in London and it has generated a wealth of interest in the media.

I may be mistaken, but HOW ON EARTH can you shift any of the blame onto Bush? ...

...If I've assessed the situation correctly, which I think I have, then it was a Natural Event and therefore how do you have the audasity to blame ONE HUMAN?

Nothing you, nor I, nor G.W.Bush could do about it!

BTW, I agreed with War in Iraq. America and U.K said "Fuck It" and stood up to be counted, instead of kidding themselves that their cosy lifestyle was ideal! FACE FACTS....It was only a matter of time before something happened to us, THE MUSLIM MENTALITY ASTONISHES ME, and I think it was a case of Once Bitten, Twice Shy!!

[amsterdam]

I'm in London and it has generated a wealth of interest in the media.

I may be mistaken, but HOW ON EARTH can you shift any of the blame onto Bush? ...

...If I've assessed the situation correctly, which I think I have, then it was a Natural Event and therefore how do you have the audasity to blame ONE HUMAN?

Nothing you, nor I, nor G.W.Bush could do about it!

BTW, I agreed with War in Iraq. America and U.K said "Fuck It" and stood up to be counted, instead of kidding themselves that their cosy lifestyle was ideal! FACE FACTS....It was only a matter of time before something happened to us, THE MUSLIM MENTALITY ASTONISHES ME, and I think it was a case of Once Bitten, Twice Shy!!


you got that right!!as for the doom and gloom people who blame Bush for EVERYTHING including NATURAL DISASTERS,you guys are scary and need help.that shit belongs on the dailykos or codepink with the rest of the fringe finatics.a hurricane is W's fault?its called reality kids.

i remember when something like sayng the president is partly responsible for a fucking hurricane would have been a joke,now its pretty mainstream thought for those sitting way,way,way out in left field.

i respect a person being a liberal,but being sooooooo open minded your brains fall out is a bad thing.

[lemonboy]

i remember when something like sayng the president is partly responsible for a fucking hurricane would have been a joke,now its pretty mainstream thought for those sitting way,way,way out in left field.It is still a joke. You only legitimatize it by treating it like a serious statement.

[amsterdam]

are you kidding?surf the blog world,alot of people are very serious about saying the hurrican is W's fault.very serious.as a matter of fact,one of those whacky Kennedys actually held a news conference saying it was?

so tell me,how are people supposed to take comments like that?as a joke?i think not.

[ArtRollins]

Whew, you guys are really messed.

You twisted this poor guy around like some hurricane on New Orleans.

I did not see him blame any natural catastrophe on the corporate leader of the biggest corporation to date. No, I saw him say that corporate leader did not pay attention to the local economy making the peoples that are enslaved in that country to the police state therein seek shelter where they could not pay to get out of range of the danger. I think he was trying to bring attention to the masses of Americans that are disenfranchised by the aggressive policies of provocation and bankruptcy the corporation called United States is pursuing as well as the phenomenal debt being mounted on the Americans backs to "protect" them from the Iraqi's who deserve to loose their freedom to "democracy." What a bunch of shit! You actually say that shit and BELIEVE it?

In the meantime assholes spout patriotic drivel like yours when you forgot you were supposed to cheer for Freedom, Liberty, The Republic for which it stands and not some fucking corporate Democracy based on Rule of Law instead of inalienable rights. Did you guys once read the Constitution for the united States of America?

Bush brought down the Towers in NYC, he brought 2000 thugs with him to the Big 8 meeting and they blew up the Underground, but he is NOT capable of bringing about Natural disasters, and neither is his partner in crime The Pope. But he is a disaster himself and you guys previous to me are assholes for reaming this kid. You fucked his words and you fucked him. He is right that the poor in New Orleans were screwed by the policies of bankruptcy and this contributed to the fact that they could not afford to leave the city. If you cant figure it out, go back to your beer and football sorry to shake your rattle.

[amsterdam]

Whew, you guys are really messed.

You twisted this poor guy around like some hurricane on New Orleans.

I did not see him blame any natural catastrophe on the corporate leader of the biggest corporation to date. No, I saw him say that corporate leader did not pay attention to the local economy making the peoples that are enslaved in that country to the police state therein seek shelter where they could not pay to get out of range of the danger. I think he was trying to bring attention to the masses of Americans that are disenfranchised by the aggressive policies of provocation and bankruptcy the corporation called United States is pursuing as well as the phenomenal debt being mounted on the Americans backs to "protect" them from the Iraqi's who deserve to loose their freedom to "democracy." What a bunch of shit! You actually say that shit and BELIEVE it?

In the meantime assholes spout patriotic drivel like yours when you forgot you were supposed to cheer for Freedom, Liberty, The Republic for which it stands and not some fucking corporate Democracy based on Rule of Law instead of inalienable rights. Did you guys once read the Constitution for the united States of America?

Bush brought down the Towers in NYC, he brought 2000 thugs with him to the Big 8 meeting and they blew up the Underground, but he is NOT capable of bringing about Natural disasters, and neither is his partner in crime The Pope. But he is a disaster himself and you guys previous to me are assholes for reaming this kid. You fucked his words and you fucked him. He is right that the poor in New Orleans were screwed by the policies of bankruptcy and this contributed to the fact that they could not afford to leave the city. If you cant figure it out, go back to your beer and football sorry to shake your rattle.


still about politics with you brain dead simpletons.we laugh at you.

[LOVElife]

Whew, you guys are really messed.

You twisted this poor guy around like some hurricane on New Orleans.

I did not see him blame any natural catastrophe on the corporate leader of the biggest corporation to date. No, I saw him say that corporate leader did not pay attention to the local economy making the peoples that are enslaved in that country to the police state therein seek shelter where they could not pay to get out of range of the danger. I think he was trying to bring attention to the masses of Americans that are disenfranchised by the aggressive policies of provocation and bankruptcy the corporation called United States is pursuing as well as the phenomenal debt being mounted on the Americans backs to "protect" them from the Iraqi's who deserve to loose their freedom to "democracy." What a bunch of shit! You actually say that shit and BELIEVE it?

In the meantime assholes spout patriotic drivel like yours when you forgot you were supposed to cheer for Freedom, Liberty, The Republic for which it stands and not some fucking corporate Democracy based on Rule of Law instead of inalienable rights. Did you guys once read the Constitution for the united States of America?

Bush brought down the Towers in NYC, he brought 2000 thugs with him to the Big 8 meeting and they blew up the Underground, but he is NOT capable of bringing about Natural disasters, and neither is his partner in crime The Pope. But he is a disaster himself and you guys previous to me are assholes for reaming this kid. You fucked his words and you fucked him. He is right that the poor in New Orleans were screwed by the policies of bankruptcy and this contributed to the fact that they could not afford to leave the city. If you cant figure it out, go back to your beer and football sorry to shake your rattle.

blah...blah...blah, each to their own opinion!

Football and Beer...Yeah and....was that intended as an insult! As I like football and Beer that obviously makes me oblivious to what is going on in the world does it?

You ridicule others for petulance, then take it upon yourself to stereotype in a very petulant way! ... 999...We have an emergency...Spiv on the cannabis boards!

[ArtRollins]

Beer suculent beer, go drink more dude, you do need it.

[ArtRollins]

blah...blah...blah, each to their own opinion!

Football and Beer...Yeah and....was that intended as an insult! As I like football and Beer that obviously makes me oblivious to what is going on in the world does it?

You ridicule others for petulance, then take it upon yourself to stereotype in a very petulant way! ... 999...We have an emergency...Spiv on the cannabis boards!

Petulance? No my friend, not for the anger you displayed, but for the distortion of the gentlemans message. Distortion, not petulance, there you go changing the meaning of it again. Maybe you should wonder how I knew you loved football and beer? I guess I will tell you; your words belie your knowledge base. Being so limited you obviously spend no time at study of your rights or care for your governance, so you are among the fine young examples that are in the "program" that is, tied to the TV, beer, ball and Fox type brain washing. It is just so you. It is in every word you type.

Yeah, and me, I never watch TV. You can tell I have all these documents and stupid things like facts instead of platitudes and patriotic drivel and obfuscation.

[amsterdam]

Petulance? No my friend, not for the anger you displayed, but for the distortion of the gentlemans message. Distortion, not petulance, there you go changing the meaning of it again. Maybe you should wonder how I knew you loved football and beer? I guess I will tell you; your words belie your knowledge base. Being so limited you obviously spend no time at study of your rights or care for your governance, so you are among the fine young examples that are in the "program" that is, tied to the TV, beer, ball and Fox type brain washing. It is just so you. It is in every word you type.

Yeah, and me, I never watch TV. You can tell I have all these documents and stupid things like facts instead of platitudes and patriotic drivel and obfuscation.


have you volunteered to house people in your home who have lost everything and have nowhere to go?quit bitching and help other people.

[ArtRollins]

Hey, trying to help you!

Or dont you notice you needed it?

[amsterdam]

need help?on a cannabis site,c'mon.

all i am saying is that watching people crawl out of the woodworks to make this a political issue before families have buried their dead is barbaric.

[lemonboy]

Heh... you had the fourth post in this thread, man. No finger pointing.

[amsterdam]

Heh... you had the fourth post in this thread, man. No finger pointing.

HEH...,no kidding,did you read the first? :rolleyes:

[ArtRollins]

need help?on a cannabis site,c'mon.

all i am saying is that watching people crawl out of the woodworks to make this a political issue before families have buried their dead is barbaric.

If you would faithfully review this thread and show me where such message would be stated by you, I would be happy to stand corrected on that. I do not know if I would have commented if you had entered that in this thread. Perhaps it was your following in support of TOROG in here?

As for help on a Cannabis site, why not? Is anyone so knowledgeable or perfect to not need help sometime? I write for 4 magazines now, and have done so for over 36 years, I still get new information. When you donâ??t need help is after you are dead.

Now, who is your buddy TOROG and how close are you to him? I reviewed TOROG threads and I would assume he is a disinformation agent and that you work with him as support. Perusing all your posts here in the last year would glean this information. You follow him and post support for positions that are seriously flawed, as this thread is. So, what gives? Inquiring minds want to know?

[amsterdam]

lol,i think the greatest thing you have said is that you write for 4 magazines.scary.and torogs a disinformation agent?and you are the one regurgitating bush knocked down the towers and write for four magazines.thats hillarious.you sound like maureen dowd,and just as funny.

has your distribution dropped like NYT'S or newsweeks because of the liberal B.S.?do you know Paul Krugman?

what magazines do you write for?be specific and i will check them out.

[GHoSToKeR]

I agree, naturalmystic. As Senator Landrieu said on TV yesterday, the hurricane is over, but the catastrophe is only now beginning.

[Fengzi]

Don't worry Art, you'll learn to ignore Amsterdam's posts. They all boil down to the same few points:

1. Bush is Godlike and NEVER wrong.
2. If you say ANYTHING negative about Bush you are an anti-American terrorist supporter.
3. The Republican right has taken over the United States, just look around you.
4. The future is hopeless for the Democrats so they should just give up.
5. Amsterdam carries a tube of lube in his pocket at all times just in case he meets G.W. one day and the Pres wants to fuck him in the ass.

That's every Amsterdam post in a nutshell. Remember these 5 points and you'll never need to read another one.

[ArtRollins]

You are a shill Amsterdam.

If anyone would care to take the time to look over the history of you and your buddy TOROG postings they would find some pretty strange things going on. You are both on at the same times, you are always supporting each other, you take over after your buddy (probably you yourself) leaves his gung ho bullshit on here. You joined EXACTLY to the day one year after him. You post right after him in almost every post since. Amazing. Coincidences do not exist you know, accidents donâ??t happen, they are planned.

So are you the same agent? Are you in the same office? Did you just figure out you could get two names and support a right wing agenda in a cannabis forum? What is your deal? Inquiring minds want an expose buddy. You know where I write. It is no secret here, and yours is sort of up isnâ??t it?

[GHoSToKeR]

Hmm.. interesting.

[ArtRollins]

Don't worry Art, you'll learn to ignore Amsterdam's posts. They all boil down to the same few points:

1. Bush is Godlike and NEVER wrong.
2. If you say ANYTHING negative about Bush you are an anti-American terrorist supporter.
3. The Republican right has taken over the United States, just look around you.
4. The future is hopeless for the Democrats so they should just give up.
5. Amsterdam carries a tube of lube in his pocket at all times just in case he meets G.W. one day and the Pres wants to fuck him in the ass.

That's every Amsterdam post in a nutshell. Remember these 5 points and you'll never need to read another one.

I saw that, he and his counter intelligence buddy. I think they are the same. I am too new to the board. I did know how to find the history and place all the stuff. I hate disinformation people. They earn money doing this you know. And he takes Clockwork Orange, degrading droog.

I will chill off them then as long as they donâ??t harm other fragile people here. He uses two characters, like the need for good cop bad cop. They are fishing here, damn agent provocateurs.

[ArtRollins]

Hmm.. interesting.

Yeah, I saw them play around with you back in April I think. Its in the history. And they were trying to sell you on coming to the US. Like it had some freedom for pot smokers or freedom at all. Who the FUCK are they kidding. Freedom in America. They dont know what America is, and they do not know the definition of Free cause it aint got restrictions.

[Fengzi]

Blaming Bush for the situation of the hurricane survivors is just ridiculous. Yes, Bush's domestic policy (is there one??) is a joke. Yes, Bush didn't sign the Kyoto accord and doesn't give a shit about the environment faced by the hurricane survivors.

Those most affected by the storm are, unfortunately, the poor. While we may want to state that Bush has done little to improve their situation the plain fact is that no President can do miracles. These people were born into poverty as were their children and so will their children's children. Bush has been in office for 5 years. I don't care who you are or what your policies are, you can't eradicate poverty in 5 years.

So, yes, Bush is an idiot who history will probably remember as one of our worst Presidents. But, no, he isn't repsonsibe for the fact that there are a lot of poor people in the deep South.

[GHoSToKeR]

Amen, Fengzi. I went to type out something similar earlier... but deleted it and said something else, much simpler. lol

ArtRollins, you seriously believe Amdam and Torog are one and the same? Well, I dunno about that. I don't see anything that would suggest that, but I haven't really been looking for it, you know? I would be extremely surprised if they were the same person, to be honest. They're both cool people, even if we do have totally different views on alot of things.

Hmm.. if they are one and the same then the question is... Which one is the real one? Is Amsterdam pretending to be a guy called Torog or is Torog pretending to be a guy called Amsterdam? hehe :p

[ArtRollins]

Yeah, cool, back on topic. I sort of read the guy as feeling the same, with the caveat that he wonders why he who is in power now does not move for change.

I have trouble not blaming all the presidents, democrats and republicans for about the last 100 years at least for this problem. It seems to have come about 100 years ago with the creation of the fiat currency banking system, loss of states rights and income tax. All happened almost exactly 100 years ago. So this guy limits to Bush, why doesnâ??t the president NOW see that we are a nation bankrupt to credit houses that never had the money to lend and take hold of the nation, restore the Republic, bring the country back on its feet and stop spending (Iraq has been 300billion that is 80k for every man woman and child did you pay that?) money they never had, never can have, and can never pay back. It is a total absurdity. Where is there reality in their spending? Where is there any real money? So, I see that guy starting this thread as a frustrated American wondering why his country is a colonial military force trying to establish foreign governments when it has its own economy and infrastructure to deal with. He may direct that at the current office holder of the corporation, as it is hard to point to the dead and gone.

I just donâ??t read him saying anything where Bush was the cause of the hurricane, just the fact that there are a lot of poor who may have been much better served if the efforts of that office were put to our internal issues rather than external expansion efforts.

The worse part I feel is spending money that does not exist, can never be paid back and whose interest alone will keep us and our posterity enslaved to the credit banks forever.

[ArtRollins]

Amen, Fengzi. I went to type out something similar earlier... but deleted it and said something else, much simpler. lol

ArtRollins, you seriously believe Amdam and Torog are one and the same? Well, I dunno about that. I don't see anything that would suggest that, but I haven't really been looking for it, you know? I would be extremely surprised if they were the same person, to be honest. They're both cool people, even if we do have totally different views on alot of things.

Hmm.. if they are one and the same then the question is... Which one is the real one? Is Amsterdam pretending to be a guy called Torog or is Torog pretending to be a guy called Amsterdam? hehe :p

My take, go to TOROG profile, go look at all messages, you will see them always together same time. Then look at join dates. Come on, that is too much coincidence no?

TOROG was here, planting right wing seeds that are so far from a stoner base that they look like bombs in the basement. One year to the day comes in his buddy, they are always together. Something about a year though I have not got. Maybe a budget thing, new guy in the office working with, something. That right wing stuff is too far away, and the Amsterdam character comes in with support after TOROG blasts his stuff. I dunno, when you read it as a thread for a year it looks pretty cozy, times dates, I was amazed. I only wanted to see what TOROG was about and there was Amsterdam all the time, and then the time and dates kept popping up. So?????

[amsterdam]

Yeah, cool, back on topic. I sort of read the guy as feeling the same, with the caveat that he wonders why he who is in power now does not move for change.

I have trouble not blaming all the presidents, democrats and republicans for about the last 100 years at least for this problem. It seems to have come about 100 years ago with the creation of the fiat currency banking system, loss of states rights and income tax. All happened almost exactly 100 years ago. So this guy limits to Bush, why doesnâ??t the president NOW see that we are a nation bankrupt to credit houses that never had the money to lend and take hold of the nation, restore the Republic, bring the country back on its feet and stop spending (Iraq has been 300billion that is 80k for every man woman and child did you pay that?) money they never had, never can have, and can never pay back. It is a total absurdity. Where is there reality in their spending? Where is there any real money? So, I see that guy starting this thread as a frustrated American wondering why his country is a colonial military force trying to establish foreign governments when it has its own economy and infrastructure to deal with. He may direct that at the current office holder of the corporation, as it is hard to point to the dead and gone.

I just donâ??t read him saying anything where Bush was the cause of the hurricane, just the fact that there are a lot of poor who may have been much better served if the efforts of that office were put to our internal issues rather than external expansion efforts.

The worse part I feel is spending money that does not exist, can never be paid back and whose interest alone will keep us and our posterity enslaved to the credit banks forever.


its as if you live on another planet,what economy are you talking about being so bad.too funny.your speaking for the minority.even one of my far,far,far left boss's admits the economy is going strong.

[GHoSToKeR]

But he is correct about the Bush Administration spending money that your country doesn't even have. And he is correct in saying that the interest on these debts is going to keep your country in debt for a hell of a long time. And why? Because you want to install democracy all over the world, when it hasn't even worked properly for you....


Edit: Oh, and Amsterdam, what do you say about ArtRollins thinking you and Torog are the same person? lol

[amsterdam]

But he is correct about the Bush Administration spending money that your country doesn't even have. And he is correct in saying that the interest on these debts is going to keep your country in debt for a hell of a long time. And why? Because you want to install democracy all over the world, when it hasn't even worked properly for you....


Edit: Oh, and Amsterdam, what do you say about ArtRollins thinking you and Torog are the same person? lol


america is the most democratic nation in the world,there is no arguing that.it hasnt worked here?really?okay.

debt,debt,debt blah,blah,blah,IT WAS CUT IN HALF LAST YEAR?bet you didnt know that,its like the story about army recruiting wich they try to say is sooo low.when in reality they are operating at 150% with enlistment going up.

Torogs a good guy but he is much,much more conservative than i have ever been.i am middle of the road but to the right a little bit.i find it wierd that some think i am some neo-con when in reality i am average

[ArtRollins]

its as if you live on another planet,what economy are you talking about being so bad.too funny.your speaking for the minority.even one of my far,far,far left boss's admits the economy is going strong.

And your planet obviously does not base its currency on?? Paper with backing of ???? 700 Trillion in debt at 8 percent per annum with 230 million taxpayers is ???? Whose economy is based on a piece of paper called a "Federal Reserve Note". Do we understand that a "note" is a indebtedness? An IOU. Your funny fiat paper is IOU's not money. And you owe trillions of IOU's more. Do you even understand what an economy is? Your intelligence is immeasurable in its lack of comprehension. You are, as I pointed out before, taken in the program with beer and sports. You need to study to be an American. You are a United States corporate pawn right now.

[ArtRollins]

america is the most democratic nation in the world,there is no arguing that.it hasnt worked here?really?okay.

debt,debt,debt blah,blah,blah,IT WAS CUT IN HALF LAST YEAR?bet you didnt know that,its like the story about army recruiting wich they try to say is sooo low.when in reality they are operating at 150% with enlistment going up.

Torogs a good guy but he is much,much more conservative than i have ever been.i am middle of the road but to the right a little bit.i find it wierd that some think i am some neo-con when in reality i am average

America was and is supposed to be a Republic. I bet you do not even know the difference. America is supposed to have inalienable rights. They have been supplanted with "rule of law." Rule of law is repugnant to the Constitution in every way.

They cut no such debt you miss-information shit. Show me the document! Debt increases stratospherically each second and you can find the counters all over the Internet. Are you completely stupid? Fucking agent. You are lying about the enlistment too, document on the government site please? Where did you get that figure from your residue this morning?

You are just getting me more pissed. Keep this up and I will have my Chicago relatives find out who and where you are, and you will be very surprised at where I can write.

You and TOROGS are one and the same, what is this fight club?

[amsterdam]

America was and is supposed to be a Republic. I bet you do not even know the difference. America is supposed to have inalienable rights. They have been supplanted with "rule of law." Rule of law is repugnant to the Constitution in every way.

They cut no such debt you miss-information shit. Show me the document! Debt increases stratospherically each second and you can find the counters all over the Internet. Are you completely stupid? Fucking agent. You are lying about the enlistment too, document on the government site please? Where did you get that figure from your residue this morning?

You are just getting me more pissed. Keep this up and I will have my Chicago relatives find out who and where you are, and you will be very surprised at where I can write.

You and TOROGS are one and the same, what is this fight club?


hahaha,go fuck yourself with those funny threats,you sound more like a CIA agent than a reporter.i would be more than happy for you to write about my opinions in a opinion piece.please.i represent the vast majority kiddo.

and your a news reporter?no wonder all the polls say america dosent subscribe to your crackpot ideas anymore.those days are over my friend.welcome to the new media world.as tDonald Trump would say,"YOU'RE FIRED!"

[GHoSToKeR]

Amsterdam, have a look at this site... it is the US national debt to the penny.

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

Seems like your national debt is increasing by at least a billion dollars every single day. And it also looks like the debt hasn't been reduced AT ALL for at least 18 years.

(Source: US Treasury Department's Bureau Of The Public Debt)

Here's another US National Debt Clock. It shows pretty much the same thing....

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

How can you argue with that, Amdam?

[GHoSToKeR]

Dudes... there's no need for threats, violent or otherwise. So you guys have a difference of opinion? Shit, it happens all the time. Just shrug it off and laugh about how the other guy is so dumb. :)

[ArtRollins]

Dudes... there's no need for threats, violent or otherwise. So you guys have a difference of opinion? Shit, it happens all the time. Just shrug it off and laugh about how the other guy is so dumb. :)

I only "threaten" to find out who he is and write about it. As you see and helped point out, it is a difference of facts, not opinion.

I actually have a deadline for midnight for a UK newspaper, this might go well in. Can I get some more info from you Adam? Like answer to the agent question? Are you an agent for the government? Avoidance is necessary as a wrong answer would offend the boss yes?

[Fengzi]

no wonder all the polls say america dosent subscribe to your crackpot ideas anymore.!"

Exactly what polls are you referring to Amsterdam? These ones?


The New York Times

Poll: Bush Performance Ratings PlummetConcerns on Iraq and Domestic Policy Underlie a Rising Political Alienation
Analysis by Gary Langer

June 7, 2005 â?? The corrosive effects of the war in Iraq and a growing disconnect on political priorities have pushed George W. Bush's performance ratings â?? notably on terrorism â?? to among the worst of his career, casting a pall over his second term and potentially over his party's prospects ahead.

For the first time, most Americans, 55 percent, say Bush has done more to divide than to unite the country. A career-high 52 percent disapprove of his job performance overall, and, in another first, a bare majority rates him unfavorably on a personal level. Most differ with him on issues ranging from the economy and Social Security to stem-cell research and nuclear power.



PDF of Poll


Exclusive: Bush Says Focus Must Be on People
Bush Taps Father, Clinton for Relief Help
Iranian President Gets Terror Law Exception

Iraq is a major thorn. With discontent over U.S. casualties at a new peak, a record 58 percent say the war there was not worth fighting. Nearly two-thirds think the United States has gotten bogged down in Iraq, up 11 points since March. Forty-five percent go so far as to foresee the equivalent of another Vietnam.

Fifty-two percent, the first majority to say so, think the Iraq war has failed to improve the long-term security of the United States, its fundamental rationale. As an extension â?? and perhaps most hazardously in political terms â?? approval of Bush's handling of terrorism, the base of his support, has lost 11 points since January to match its low, 50 percent in June 2004 when it was pressured both by the presidential campaign and the kidnapping and slaying of American Paul Johnson in Saudi Arabia.

All these underscore a broad sense of lost promise for the president: In January, 55 percent of Americans expected Bush to do a better job in his second term than in his first. Today, vastly fewer, 30 percent, say in fact he's doing so. And even though they remain staunchly supportive, the letdown in expectations is biggest in Bush's own back yard, among Republicans.


Parties and Politics

These views are accompanied by a sense of alienation not just from the president but from both parties in Washington. Disapproval of Congress, at 54 percent, is its highest in more than six years, and six in 10 Americans say Bush and the Republicans, who control both Houses, are not making good progress in solving the nation's problems.

About as many also say neither Bush nor the Republicans are concentrating on what's important to them personally. And the Democrats in Congress barely fare better: Fifty-three percent say they're not concentrating on the right issues either.

On balance, Americans now slightly favor the Democrats over the Republicans, by 46 percent-41 percent, in trust to deal with the country's problems, the first Democratic advantage in this question, however slight, in ABC/Post polls since 9/11. Nonetheless, the Democrats seem to have capitalized only marginally at best on the current discontent. Fifty-six percent of Americans disapprove of the job performance of both parties in Congress, and both have seen their basic favorability ratings slide to about the 50-50 mark.

[Fengzi]

Or these?

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

[Fengzi]

Or is it this one?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/27/bush.poll/

[ArtRollins]

hahaha,go fuck yourself with those funny threats,you sound more like a CIA agent than a reporter.i would be more than happy for you to write about my opinions in a opinion piece.please.i represent the vast majority kiddo.

and your a news reporter?no wonder all the polls say america dosent subscribe to your crackpot ideas anymore.those days are over my friend.welcome to the new media world.as tDonald Trump would say,"YOU'RE FIRED!"

So, you think the opinion of the people is that debt is down and recruitment is up and everything is hunky dory. That my threat to find out who you are and write about you is more CIA than news. You are way too cool for school my friend, way too cool. You quote the king of comb overs? Your idols are a bit absurd donâ??t you think? DONALD?

I think you are not an agent. You are a kid with nothing to do and lacking in knowledge. I bow out to you and your alter identity here. May you be ignored forever.

[VBcophater]

owned

[ArtRollins]

Dudes... there's no need for threats, violent or otherwise. So you guys have a difference of opinion? Shit, it happens all the time. Just shrug it off and laugh about how the other guy is so dumb. :)

Toker

I was off, but something bothers me here. So help me out, I know you are a stoner.

Look, all the years sitting with stoners, and I have a lot of them, I found many differences of opinion, but never like this guy. I just want to ask you outside of him and that other name here, in your normal life, just stoning about with people, have you ever encountered a stoner, I mean one who goes out of his way to be on boards and everything, who has this kind of politics? I never have. I wonder if you had? Cannabis helps break from this kind of programming, not reinforce it. None of what he said has a shred of reality or proof as all of us showed. So, have you ever really met a stoner, you are British, you know. So? How many Tory stoners are there?

Did you ever read my articles?

[amsterdam]

So, you think the opinion of the people is that debt is down and recruitment is up and everything is hunky dory. That my threat to find out who you are and write about you is more CIA than news. You are way too cool for school my friend, way too cool. You quote the king of comb overs? Your idols are a bit absurd donâ??t you think? DONALD?

I think you are not an agent. You are a kid with nothing to do and lacking in knowledge. I bow out to you and your alter identity here. May you be ignored forever.


i love the NYT POLL.hahaha.get real.you guys will live and die by wierd polls conducted in biased areas.your loss,our gain.cant win at the polling booth but you win newspaper and internet polls.wow,good for you.

i am a 26 year old graduate who works in advertising for a hardware company in downtown Chicago.what a loser huh!sucker.

i love the threats though,a good laugh.you show me the might of the pen over the sword.go read some chompsky and be quiet.

[amsterdam]

and the recruitment and economy isnt an opinion jackass,its a fact,for a reporter you arent really up to date on current events are you.no suprise though,most of ya'll arent.i hear cBS is hiring?

[amsterdam]

Toker

I was off, but something bothers me here. So help me out, I know you are a stoner.

Look, all the years sitting with stoners, and I have a lot of them, I found many differences of opinion, but never like this guy. I just want to ask you outside of him and that other name here, in your normal life, just stoning about with people, have you ever encountered a stoner, I mean one who goes out of his way to be on boards and everything, who has this kind of politics? I never have. I wonder if you had? Cannabis helps break from this kind of programming, not reinforce it. None of what he said has a shred of reality or proof as all of us showed. So, have you ever really met a stoner, you are British, you know. So? How many Tory stoners are there?

Did you ever read my articles?


perhaps you should venture outside your cushy liberal friends.

and i lived in Amsterdam,London, and traveled the middle east and came back more conservative than i was before.Beirut was great!!been there?

[ArtRollins]

i love the NYT POLL.hahaha.get real.you guys will live and die by wierd polls conducted in biased areas.your loss,our gain.cant win at the polling booth but you win newspaper and internet polls.wow,good for you.

i am a 26 year old graduate who works in advertising for a hardware company in downtown Chicago.what a loser huh!sucker.

i love the threats though,a good laugh.you show me the might of the pen over the sword.go read some chompsky and be quiet.

Warshawskis? Just a kid agent, no wonder. You watch Fox too? Beer, Cubs and Fox news! Brother, you just have no idea. So easy to pin. Hey, it was only a threat, you were never worthy of my pen, just waking you up a bit here. I would not waste valuable print space, they only give me 1200 words to use in any article in print, so I would never waste them on childrens trivia. There is an evil government trying to bring its vision of flak-jaketed police to the world, peace and love through the barrel of their bunker buster laser driven humvee kids, like you, driving it!

I am proud of you for some strange reason. Probably for again letting me know how dumb downed my fellow Americans are. It is so sad to see such waste. One day you will remember the real patriots that stand for Freedom and Liberty. Do me a favor, do yourself one. Go look those words up in a dictionary from the years it happened 1800's or so. see what it meant. Next time you go to Sears tower, and they almost strip search you to go in, think about Freedom, think about Liberty and ask yourself is this it? Look at all the others that have that "stamp" they put on you that you have been degraded to a total search. Wear it proudly. I HAVE BEEN SEARCHED and have NOTHING TO HIDE. My LIBERTY AND FREEDOM ARE SAFE. You have degraded me and I am humbled as a naked man before you, you have marked me as such and I wear your badge as in honor. Did you get your Sears Tower search sticker?

Excuse me this is too funny to continue.

[ArtRollins]

and the recruitment and economy isnt an opinion jackass,its a fact,for a reporter you arent really up to date on current events are you.no suprise though,most of ya'll arent.i hear cBS is hiring?

No, I got it, you are wrong and I am right. The polls point down, not up, the debt is up not down, you are wrong and I am right. It is you who is not current.

[mike jones]

I would not consider myself a Bush supporter, but I definitely DO NOT think you can place any blame on him for this disaster. When a Cat. 5 hurricane alters its course and destroys an entire city in a matter of hours, I don't think anybody can be blamed for that.

However, I think this would be a wonderful opportunity for the government to look like heroes by stepping up in a time of extreme crisis and HELP THESE PEOPLE. I believe Bush was on vacation when the hurricane hit the US, and I have not heard much from him or about him during this disaster. In the upcoming weeks and months, I think Bush could come out of this as a real hero if the US government can find a way to help these survivors.

We can't change Bush's foreign policy, and we can't change what has already happened. But what we can try and change now is that there are now a few million more homeless people in this country. It doesn't look good for the gov't at all when troops aren't being brought into the South right now because the gov't is worried about people sitting on the roofs of their flooded houses firing at national guard troops and helicopters with handguns.

Bush is the face of the government and the face of the nation. If we can find a way as a country to get food, water, and shelter to these people, Bush is gonna look good. And if we can find a way to restore these peoples' lives (they have no money, homes, or jobs now,) well Bush is going to look really good. But if we start seeing corpses floating through flood water, Bush is going to look reeeeaaally bad.

[ArtRollins]

perhaps you should venture outside your cushy liberal friends.

and i lived in Amsterdam,London, and traveled the middle east and came back more conservative than i was before.Beirut was great!!been there?

You donâ??t know whom I write for or if I am liberal or conservative. You donâ??t even know whom I am and I am easy to find. And you can make personal statements about me? I would call you a clown, but I like them and try to be like them. So, yeah, you are funny. Amsterdam, London and Beirut as an ad guy for a hardware store in Chicago. Do go on, interesting hardware I guess to go to all those places. What made you conservative then? I mean Beirut has not been open long and you are so young. I was there in the 70's but you were not born yet. So, when were you there, as Americans were not allowed to go for the longest time, except military and agents?

Sure you are not an Agent: You have not answered please just state "I do not work for any government agency and/or a US government agency or enforcement service" can we say that?

How about some more laughs?

[Fengzi]

Ok Amsterdam. Show me some other polls that say that everyone is happy with what Bush is doing? Seriously, I have an open mind and I'd love to see them.

Also, everything I've heard about military recruiting is that it's way down. I did a quick look on google and found this http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jun2005/mili-j01.shtml Ok, I know, The World Socialist Website isn't exactly the best source. I'll give you that but please show me something that say's otherwise.

Seriously Amsterdam, I like to see all sides and would like to see something from your side too.

[amsterdam]

fox news??please.i am more a powerlineblog kind of guy.i dont watch television news.

why is it when people want to have an abortion they are consenting adults(i am pro choice) but when they volunteer and bravely fight a war they are all of a sudden children incapable of making a choice for themselves?too funny.get real.have you even been to the middle east?doubt it.ever seen people beaten for holding hands in public by people who enforce a distorted version of the great religon of Islam?doubt it.

i have to go to the sears tower for work sometimes,never been searched?wierd.

but hey,id be mad to if i hadnt seen much of the real world and the philosophies and ideals i believed in were laughed at by the majority in this great capitalist society!!

perhaps you should travel to China and live there for awhile,maybe with sean penn to Tehran so you can actually see what oppression really is.you "reporters" are a dime a dozen.worthless.

some intellectual you are.bow down.

[ArtRollins]

Mike Jones, I really do not see how anyone can place blame on anyone for a hurricane. It is this help that I think was the real issue. That GW is not moving on this at all. As you lament, so is the issue, he is on vacation and maybe soon we shall hear? I think that sums up the initial post here. You do reflect what I found as most Americans.

May I ask you why you would find the need to help George Bush's reputation as a reason to help these people as sort of a basis?

You do represent what I know to be the middle of America Mike. And as such I would like to know why you think we cant change the foriegn policy or other policies that may prove to be negative in their producing anything of value? You were pretty adament in your belief the way it is stated there and it is something I would hope is not true. Knowing why you would think it cant change is important for me.

Thanks!

[Fengzi]

I would not consider myself a Bush supporter, but I definitely DO NOT think you can place any blame on him for this disaster. When a Cat. 5 hurricane alters its course and destroys an entire city in a matter of hours, I don't think anybody can be blamed for that.

However, I think this would be a wonderful opportunity for the government to look like heroes by stepping up in a time of extreme crisis and HELP THESE PEOPLE. I believe Bush was on vacation when the hurricane hit the US, and I have not heard much from him or about him during this disaster. In the upcoming weeks and months, I think Bush could come out of this as a real hero if the US government can find a way to help these survivors.

We can't change Bush's foreign policy, and we can't change what has already happened. But what we can try and change now is that there are now a few million more homeless people in this country. It doesn't look good for the gov't at all when troops aren't being brought into the South right now because the gov't is worried about people sitting on the roofs of their flooded houses firing at national guard troops and helicopters with handguns.

Bush is the face of the government and the face of the nation. If we can find a way as a country to get food, water, and shelter to these people, Bush is gonna look good. And if we can find a way to restore these peoples' lives (they have no money, homes, or jobs now,) well Bush is going to look really good. But if we start seeing corpses floating through flood water, Bush is going to look reeeeaaally bad.

I was just going to say something like this when I read your post. Regardless of the fact that Bush can't be blamed for the tradedy, my guess is that this is really going to hurt Bush. This will show his true nature-that he really is a weak leader.

After 9/11 everyone loved Bush. Why? Because he went after the Taliban and Al Queada, those who were guilty. But really, what esle was he supposed to do? I can't believe Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan or any other President wouldn't have done the same. Well, maybe not Carter but that's a different story. Everyone, inclduing foriegn governments, supported it. Even China, who is very critical of our foriegn policy, and shares a border with Afghanistan, had little or no problem with the US taking them out. Why, because what Al Quaeda did was an act of war and our response was not only appropriate but obvious.

But this tragedy is different. While it may not have the psychological impact for all Americans that 9/11 had it is, in all actuality, far worse. It is not 2700+ people dead (although it may end up being more). But it is the hundreds of of those that are still alive whose lives have been destoyed. There is no clear enemy to point the finger at. No obvious response to this tragedy. This is where we need a real leader. And, this is where Bush will fail.

[ArtRollins]

fox news??please.i am more a powerlineblog kind of guy.i dont watch television news.

why is it when people want to have an abortion they are consenting adults(i am pro choice) but when they volunteer and bravely fight a war they are all of a sudden children incapable of making a choice for themselves?too funny.get real.have you even been to the middle east?doubt it.ever seen people beaten for holding hands in public by people who enforce a distorted version of the great religon of Islam?doubt it.

i have to go to the sears tower for work sometimes,never been searched?wierd.

but hey,id be mad to if i hadnt seen much of the real world and the philosophies and ideals i believed in were laughed at by the majority in this great capitalist society!!

perhaps you should travel to China and live there for awhile,maybe with sean penn to Tehran so you can actually see what oppression really is.you "reporters" are a dime a dozen.worthless.

some intellectual you are.bow down.


As I said, you do not even have a clue whom you converse with. Been there, lived there, done that, wish you were there, too bad you were not born. Cant help you there. I can claim and document 102 countries 45 with lengthy stays and 7 years in the far east. I have no problems knowing most of China as I came in from the Gobi desert on the same route as Marco Polo. I did all his journeys. I have seen things you will never have opportunity. I saw the Buddha in Afghanistan. I was at Timor Lanes Tomb, climbed the steps in Lhasa and skated the Great Wall. Helicopter into the Gobi Desert and rode the Camels from Samarkand to Ulam Bator. I smoked hash in every country I went. I was in Moscow when the walls came down. I was in Iran when the Shah went down, I was in Afghanistan when the Russians came in, and I was in India and Nepal too many years to count on one hand.

[amsterdam]

the foreign policy we have is tough and it should stay that way.obviously the 90's were a cowardly cut and run decade(dont get me started on able danger blunder) THAT RESULTED IN MORE ATTACKS AND MORE TRAGEDY.so lets think,running from a fight(somalia,lebanon) dosent make them play nice and they continue to kill.sounds like a plan,lets do that.that isnt gonna happen buddy.the foreigners who infiltrate these countries like iraq and iran believe in a distorted view of Islam and are dedicated to spreading it throughout the world.they even tell you that.so they must be killed or captured.and we will take the lead in doing so,,and we will win.

taking the fight to the crazed finatics limits their capabilities and kills them.ive never heard of a dead man killing more innocent people.obviously these types of things are bolstering the moderate voices in these oppressive unelected regimes.Ukraine,Lebanon,Palestine,Egypt,Kuwait have also stepped up the freedom movement in their own countries.great if you dont like how we are doing this,but you damn sure cant say these are bad developments.do you really want to be on the wrong side of history again?im sure you supported a nuclear freeze during the cold war instead of taking the missles to the enemy of the time in the soviet union.wich toppled thanks to Reagens balls.

oh yea,confirm Judge Roberts.j/k lol

[ArtRollins]

But this tragedy is different. While it may not have the psychological impact for all Americans that 9/11 had it is, in all actuality, far worse. It is not 2700+ people dead (although it may end up being more). But it is the hundreds of of those that are still alive whose lives have been destoyed. There is no clear enemy to point the finger at. No obvious response to this tragedy. This is where we need a real leader. And, this is where Bush will fail.

That was beautiful man. A real work. I wont touch the 911 part because it is not for this thread. But you are really right on and if this thread went anywhere, this is it. WAY COOL.

I donâ??t mean that Bush may fail, but your analysis is fucking right on. Damn dude. I got these pictures online that are horrible. They show that whole city under water, like there is no coming back for months to this place. The work to clean up that area will make NYC look like a cakewalk. You are so right on there. Go to this site and take a look at the pics, I am not sure what the USA has for its people to digest but this is a spy site so it has some interesting things http://cryptome.org/ this guy is amazing at exposure and those pictures show what you are saying. It is horrifying.

There was a document somewhere about a similar flood before the government changed and the people did things for themselves. I have to dig it out and post it. But I hope the people take control and do it, this is not something a government can do, too much corruption. When I see these pictures even the Tsunami was nothing. New Orleans is wiped out basically. A whole US city. It is serious. So, this lament at the beginning, and here is all valid.

We can actually just hope that the people do it and get the credit. I am not really depressed. Shit, it is so sad. You are right, that is a lot of people out of homes for a long time. They are already saying at least 4 months before it can come back.

[Fengzi]

perhaps you should travel to China and live there for awhile,

Been there, done that. I've seen you say this before which is ironic because you have no fucking idea what it's really like in China. Like most Americans, you only know what our media has told you and, I assure you, that is far from the whole truth. Just more proof that you really don't have a clue.

[amsterdam]

really,i have been to China and seen the millions of homes the govt. there destroyed to make room for the olympics.where do they live now?its in those tents lining the streets in the area that looks like new orleans right now.

i dont think China is some crazed dictatorship like Iran OR North Korea.i dont sweat China,whatever for them.as long as they keep making my air max we are cool.lol

[ArtRollins]

I knew you could not say it.

[mike jones]

May I ask you why you would find the need to help George Bush's reputation as a reason to help these people as sort of a basis?

You do represent what I know to be the middle of America Mike. And as such I would like to know why you think we cant change the foriegn policy or other policies that may prove to be negative in their producing anything of value? You were pretty adament in your belief the way it is stated there and it is something I would hope is not true. Knowing why you would think it cant change is important for me.

Thanks!

I just watched Bush give a statement on CNN from the white house with former Presidents Clinton and Bush, so he is obviously back in Washington.

If I understand the first question correctly, I don't think Bush's reputation is a basis for helping these people. Obviously, the people need help regardless. The message I intended to convey was that, as in the 9/11 situation, that if the rescue efforts are coordinated well and people get help, Bush will look good. Right now on CNN, they interviewed a man who just thanked the President for getting buses into New Orleans and getting him to safety to Houston. Obviously, Bush had nothing to do with getting him out of Louisiana. But that's just how people feel.

In regards to foreign policy, I think it can change in the future, but not under the Bush regime. 50% of the country didn't want to keep this President in the last election, and the greater part of the world disapproves of what he has done throughout the world. Let's get back to this question in 2008 when we have someone in office that the rest of the world can trust.

Once again, I am not a Bush supporter. I was just trying to take a relatively neutral viewpoint. I strongly disapprove of the Iraq situation, and I would definitely like someone else in office right now. But we are stuck with Bush for now, and therefore, I'm not going to openly bash a President that's not going anywhere for the next 3 years. What good does it do to rip the guy on this message board? He is taking enough of a hit right now by not dropping a few sandwiches and bottles of water to the 25,000 people stranded outside the Superdome. This rescue effort is obviously being botched as we speak, so let's just watch this unfold. But I guess it's a lot easier to be critical sitting here in sunny California, rather than in Washington.

Lastly, I'm hearing there are civilian snipers outside a hospital disabling the evacuation of sick patients. What the fuck is wrong with people?

[ArtRollins]

Sadly, people are not happy. The violence is a result. The reasons are so deep and old it is mind boggling and this is not the place for it. I really like having fun, and here in cannabis land I should have it. I hope you dont mind if I just move along to more fun topics. That agent never would deny his ID, you know they cannot deny if questioned but I dont know if it applies in a public forum like in real world, but he would not say no. So. I do have a deadline to meet. See you in one of the other threads and lets hope for the best. Cheers

[GHoSToKeR]

Toker

I was off, but something bothers me here. So help me out, I know you are a stoner.

Look, all the years sitting with stoners, and I have a lot of them, I found many differences of opinion, but never like this guy. I just want to ask you outside of him and that other name here, in your normal life, just stoning about with people, have you ever encountered a stoner, I mean one who goes out of his way to be on boards and everything, who has this kind of politics? I never have. I wonder if you had? Cannabis helps break from this kind of programming, not reinforce it. None of what he said has a shred of reality or proof as all of us showed. So, have you ever really met a stoner, you are British, you know. So? How many Tory stoners are there?

Did you ever read my articles?
LOL Nope, i've never encountered anybody quite like Amsterdam in my real life. But, i'm only 18 so alot of the people in my social circle are of roughly the same age... not many 18 year olds are so set in their ways yet. And teenagers pretty much always tend to lean more to the left, do you agree?

Funnily enough, a friend of mine was in the area so I invited him in for a joint or two (he just left about five minutes ago). We chatted about all sorts of things, and both of us being stoners, we got on to the subject of weed and weed politics. I said something to the effect that what annoys me the most is that alot of people only think weed is bad because it's illegal, and that it's illegal because it's bad. I thought he would have agreed with me, since he's almost as much of a stoner as me, but he said something like "Yeah, I know! They think it's only bad because it's illegal but they don't know how it can kill you, it can cause psychosis, it can cause families to split up.... yadda, yadda, yadda".

I nearly punched him. But I wasn't entirely shocked, because after being a regular user of this site for over a year i've come to realise that not all stoners have the same opinions regarding alot of stuff. We all have one thing in common, and we all share one common desire, but sometimes that's as far as it goes.

Frankly this site would be alot less interesting without people like Torog, Amsterdam, Psycho, etc, because our debates add a certain kind of variety that you don't get on many sites - we can argue and argue about certain subjects until we're ready to kill eachother, but then we can still have a laugh and a normal conversation because at the end of the day we're all stoners and there's always gonna be something that we agree on. Plus, stoners are nice people most of the time, no matter what side of the political fencde they're on.

To assume that all stoners agree on everything would be wrong. Like I said, we all have a common interest, an interest that will never fail to bring us together when it comes down to it, but we all have different entirely different backgrounds, opinions and views. That's why stoners are so cool.

:)

Oh, and no, sorry, I've never read any of your articles because I don't know where to find them. Perhaps a link?

[eg420ne]

I just watched Bush give a statement on CNN from the white house with former Presidents Clinton and Bush, so he is obviously back in Washington.

If I understand the first question correctly, I don't think Bush's reputation is a basis for helping these people. Obviously, the people need help regardless. The message I intended to convey was that, as in the 9/11 situation, that if the rescue efforts are coordinated well and people get help, Bush will look good. Right now on CNN, they interviewed a man who just thanked the President for getting buses into New Orleans and getting him to safety to Houston. Obviously, Bush had nothing to do with getting him out of Louisiana. But that's just how people feel.

In regards to foreign policy, I think it can change in the future, but not under the Bush regime. 50% of the country didn't want to keep this President in the last election, and the greater part of the world disapproves of what he has done throughout the world. Let's get back to this question in 2008 when we have someone in office that the rest of the world can trust.

Once again, I am not a Bush supporter. I was just trying to take a relatively neutral viewpoint. I strongly disapprove of the Iraq situation, and I would definitely like someone else in office right now. But we are stuck with Bush for now, and therefore, I'm not going to openly bash a President that's not going anywhere for the next 3 years. What good does it do to rip the guy on this message board? He is taking enough of a hit right now by not dropping a few sandwiches and bottles of water to the 25,000 people stranded outside the Superdome. This rescue effort is obviously being botched as we speak, so let's just watch this unfold. But I guess it's a lot easier to be critical sitting here in sunny California, rather than in Washington.

Lastly, I'm hearing there are civilian snipers outside a hospital disabling the evacuation of sick patients. What the fuck is wrong with people?
Bush is soo n asshole man. Hes a oilman his daddy was a oilman uncle dick is a oil man condi. He can stop this gas rapeing now put a cap on it something . Dont forget that texas, oklahoma among other have there own oil plants and themsum

[Fengzi]

really,i have been to China and seen the millions of homes the govt. there destroyed to make room for the olympics.where do they live now?its in those tents lining the streets in the area that looks like new orleans right now.

i dont think China is some crazed dictatorship like Iran OR North Korea.i dont sweat China,whatever for them.as long as they keep making my air max we are cool.lol

Ok Amsterdam, I'm wrong. You took your tour and got your "I climbed the Great Wall" T-Shirt. I'll never doubt your knowledge of China again.

At least your not one of those "China's gonna nuke us in their attempt to spread communism" types.

[naturalmystic]

I would not consider myself a Bush supporter, but I definitely DO NOT think you can place any blame on him for this disaster. When a Cat. 5 hurricane alters its course and destroys an entire city in a matter of hours, I don't think anybody can be blamed for that.

However, I think this would be a wonderful opportunity for the government to look like heroes by stepping up in a time of extreme crisis and HELP THESE PEOPLE. I believe Bush was on vacation when the hurricane hit the US, and I have not heard much from him or about him during this disaster. In the upcoming weeks and months, I think Bush could come out of this as a real hero if the US government can find a way to help these survivors.

We can't change Bush's foreign policy, and we can't change what has already happened. But what we can try and change now is that there are now a few million more homeless people in this country. It doesn't look good for the gov't at all when troops aren't being brought into the South right now because the gov't is worried about people sitting on the roofs of their flooded houses firing at national guard troops and helicopters with handguns.

Bush is the face of the government and the face of the nation. If we can find a way as a country to get food, water, and shelter to these people, Bush is gonna look good. And if we can find a way to restore these peoples' lives (they have no money, homes, or jobs now,) well Bush is going to look really good. But if we start seeing corpses floating through flood water, Bush is going to look reeeeaaally bad.


I completely agree with you. Right now, our top priority is to help these people out, in any way possible. Right now, it is total anarchy. Policemen are being shot in the heads, people are shooting at the national guards, helicopters, it's just awful.

This thread was not an attack on Bush for 'causing' this disaster. Any MORON can see that one person cannot cause a hurricane. Please read carefully before you spout out your crap at me. Just because you do not agree, does not mean i'm wrong. I'm simply stating, that had Bush been more concerned on OUR OWN economy, rather than attacking a country which posed no threat to us, the city would not be in as bad as a condition as it is now. I sat on my couch watching every news channel that covered this disaster. I sat there and watched as thousands of poor blacks filed into the Superdome because they could not afford to get out of the city. Yes, ok, our government's first priority is to protect us. But by invading Iraq, they weren't protecting anyone, but their bank account. The fact is, Iraq has consumed all of us for 4 years now. Had we not invaded Iraq, our government could've spent our money on better things, like helping the poor. Granted, no one is perfect. You can't expect the president to fix everything, what does it look like when the main problem now, is getting thousands of poor people out of the city? That's not even ALL the poor people in the city, think about how many poor people, like the ones in New Orleans, are in our country.

Again, any IDIOT can see that Bush didn't cause this hurricane, but he did contribute the post-hurricane situation by not paying enough attention to his own people, and paying TOO much attention to a country which posed no threat .

[naturalmystic]

Toroq, your accusation of enviromentalists causing the gas prices to rise so high, is as bad as someone blaming Bush for causing the hurricane.

[Kramerica]

Howdy natural,

The primary duty of any president,is national security..not redistributing the wealth so that there aren't any poor folks,this is a capitalist country..not a socialist or communist country..and there are still plenty of poor folks in both the former and latter,what's their excuse ?

If you stub yer toe in the morning..do ya blame it on Bush ? I knew that it was only a matter of time before anti-Bush people would try and find a way to blame Bush for a natural disaster. As for the price of gasoline,I blame that on the environazis who have managed to keep new refineries from being built and oil and natural gas fields from being opened and developed,they also have prevented new nuclear plants from being built.

Have a good one....


This is the typical conservative response Ive been expecting on Fox News.
Hurricane Katrina? Blame it on Clinton! Gas prices soar, Blame it on the Sierra Club!
Fact is, this administration deflects the blame and criticism in every direction for every problem in our country, whether it be the war, the economy, social security, etc etc
Isnt that part of being the chief executive as well; Taking responsibility?
But thats the republican way; POINT THE FINGER!!!!!!!!!!!

[naturalmystic]

I'm not republican. But I'll admit, i'm pointing the finger on Bush. Just not for the same reason most of you people think.

[red662]

I'm not one of the those people to just find reasons to spout against bush but..

Had he been alittle less concerned with a country that we now know posed no threat to us, and had spent more time working on our economy, there wouldn't be as many people who are right now riding 9 hours to houston. Those who were forced to take shelter in the superdome were very poor and couldn't even get out of the city. I think our country is in terrible shape when people are so poor they can't even leave the city.


On a side question, those of you not in the U.S., how much press is this disaster getting around the world?i have 2 agre sort out shit @ home b4 worrin bout the rest off the world.
i live in ireland, and when i was younger i experianced the same situation, i was homeless(all my own fault) and shit i really seen dublins problems, drugs drink people diein in there sleep on steps somewhere. and while all this was goin on our famous celtic tiger was doin very well 4 itself an irelands econemy grew and has done so since, yet our citys homeless and drink/drug problem has escalated while the goverment r spendin mils on new fancy builings everywhere, our sky line is littered with cranes, which any1 who knows bout economics will know that that in itself is a sign irelands econemy is booming, yet they wont deal with there probs @ home.
all joinin the eu did was change our money and nothin else, especially with the escalatin probs, an u know what they did 2 celebrate eires econemy.........they built a 200 foot syringe, with our hroin problem it was a right joke an still is 2 this day.
they had a draw to see the winnin monument and the spike in the sky won, costin mils that could have eased a small bit off the biger probs on the streets of dublin, not nice

[naturalmystic]

Howdy natural,

The primary duty of any president,is national security..not redistributing the wealth so that there aren't any poor folks,this is a capitalist country..not a socialist or communist country..and there are still plenty of poor folks in both the former and latter,what's their excuse ?

If you stub yer toe in the morning..do ya blame it on Bush ? I knew that it was only a matter of time before anti-Bush people would try and find a way to blame Bush for a natural disaster. As for the price of gasoline,I blame that on the environazis who have managed to keep new refineries from being built and oil and natural gas fields from being opened and developed,they also have prevented new nuclear plants from being built.

Have a good one....



Do you want to hear me blame people for this disaster? Ok, I blame you! I blame myself, I blame any person who drives a car. It's called global warming. I don't expect you to believe in it, but it's real. Billions of cars on this earth emit gases that trap the sunlight in. Thus, warming the earth, including the gulf of Mexico. Warmer water means stronger storms.


If you stub your toe in the morning... do you blame it on the enviromentalists?

[red662]

Do you want to hear me blame people for this disaster? Ok, I blame you! I blame myself, I blame any person who drives a car. It's called global warming. I don't expect you to believe in it, but it's real. Billions of cars on this earth emit gases that trap the sunlight in. Thus, warming the earth, including the gulf of Mexico. Warmer water means stronger storms.


If you stub your toe in the morning... do you blame it on the enviromentalists?i agree fully man the last few years in eire its like the seasons r a month month ad a half behind, warmer in2 september and longer, all round better weather u can really see the effects of global warmin man, but goverments (especially the us, sorry every1 from there),have been warned 4 years now 2 reduce omissions, slowly european countrys and others r fallin in2 levels deemed rweasonable, but bush is havin none of it, man the 3 foot hippy thinks the econemy wil collapse r he will run out of cash 4 misiles, whatever the genda, hes not doin it, if industrial countrys like gernay, the lower lands, and england did it without any repucussions, the good oul us of a(yea right, give me Eire anyday)shoul fall in2 line for our children and our childrens ......and so on, im sure evweryone can see, heavier storms, rain, wind. stronger summers, high humidity if u didnt already have it, man Eire is turnin in2 weather on days, where the humidity is so bad u get 10 steps an u r soaked, this is not the norm in ireland, a u cn see global warin is upon u nd gettin worse the lst timi loked,the hole inthe oone layer over he north pole was huge, i can jus imagne how big it is now 5-6year lter.
sorry 4 blaberin on the glol warmi pos got the typin juices flowinpeace

[GSW389]

Whew, you guys are really messed.

You twisted this poor guy around like some hurricane on New Orleans.

I did not see him blame any natural catastrophe on the corporate leader of the biggest corporation to date. No, I saw him say that corporate leader did not pay attention to the local economy making the peoples that are enslaved in that country to the police state therein seek shelter where they could not pay to get out of range of the danger. I think he was trying to bring attention to the masses of Americans that are disenfranchised by the aggressive policies of provocation and bankruptcy the corporation called United States is pursuing as well as the phenomenal debt being mounted on the Americans backs to "protect" them from the Iraqi's who deserve to loose their freedom to "democracy." What a bunch of shit! You actually say that shit and BELIEVE it?

In the meantime assholes spout patriotic drivel like yours when you forgot you were supposed to cheer for Freedom, Liberty, The Republic for which it stands and not some fucking corporate Democracy based on Rule of Law instead of inalienable rights. Did you guys once read the Constitution for the united States of America?

Bush brought down the Towers in NYC, he brought 2000 thugs with him to the Big 8 meeting and they blew up the Underground, but he is NOT capable of bringing about Natural disasters, and neither is his partner in crime The Pope. But he is a disaster himself and you guys previous to me are assholes for reaming this kid. You fucked his words and you fucked him. He is right that the poor in New Orleans were screwed by the policies of bankruptcy and this contributed to the fact that they could not afford to leave the city. If you cant figure it out, go back to your beer and football sorry to shake your rattle.

The War in Iraq and what the governemnt is doing to deal with poverty... those are both two problems where opinion will lead someone to what they feel is the best solution for them. However, I don't think anyone who is a complete psychopath deserves to give an opinion on anything because it won't make sense, and you are definatley a psychopath. Even when bin Laden makes a tape aking credit for it, you still somehow manged to convince yourself that Bush got some members of Al-Queda to fly planes into the world trade center. Are you posting from a mental hospital? I hope so. you like to ridicule people who drink beer for whatever reason, may I remind you that you are on CANNIBUS.com? scumbag

[mrdevious]

Torog, how can you say the duty of the president is national security and not improving living standards for the very people he rules over? maybe Bush thinks that's his only duty, I don't know.

[glantern2814]

dude love life rules , he kept this thread going

[NowhereMan]

do you know why its Bush's fault? because the money that would have gone to fix the levees(which if fixed there would have been very minimal damage) was taken out of the budget and went to iraq, and they had plenty of time to fix them in the 3 days before when a budget didn't even matter cause it was a state of emergensy, but he didn't.


yaw piss me off making me defend a dick like bush

its not his fualt that place is flooded
its the state's leaders.
thye didnt want spend the money,
those poor folks should not be used by assholes to dog the prez'
he is big enough dickhead with yaw lying about it

[GHoSToKeR]

yaw piss me off making me defend a dick like bush
LOL! :p

It's is funny how even people who hate Bush are having to stick up for him on this one... How the hell could he have caused a hurricane? LOL I'm sure someone said in a thread recently that the US government has been developing technology to control the weather... Some people are just plain crazy!

[eg420ne]

No its the governments fault.. they give so many excuses why it took em 5 days to help them thats what im screaming about. There should of been planks of water, food, medicine, clothing drop at the superdome & conviction center they should of have started saving people tuesday, but no they had to wait for b*sh to do his photo-op. Tues & weds he was in cali & arizona eaten cake and playing a guitar they have pictures of that as well. They let that happen the government does not care so take care when it come to you one day and from the looks of it it might be soon... ripple effect. They had everything there but could not get in because of FEMA, look it up man its even on the MSM....

[GHoSToKeR]

http://www.fema.gov/

Okay, I looked it up. What point are you trying to make?

[eg420ne]

your sure not going to find it on fema website. This is what happen when people dont pay attention they start whoring for the government dont turn a blind eye on this we all should be outrage at the lack of caring from our government and others

[eg420ne]

But go ahead and dont care just smoke ur pot and act like nothing wrong. We cant even smoke pot outside without fearing the police, neighbor telling the homeland Secruity on us. we have to be watch 24/7 Ifeel the efects of this Criminal government and if u say this is not a criminal govenment then i say you are a government borg or you have to take the blinders off.. thank God 4 cannabis i have to go roll me up one now....peace

[beatpixie]

Bush may have not caused the hurricane but he surely did not help the post situation by him and his administration cutting funding to secure the levees that surround new orleans five years in a row. The hurricane if you remember scaled eastward at the last minute making the situation in New Orleans not as horrible as expected until the Levees (that were never repaired/reinforced as instructed by MANY civil engineers) broke and the area was flooded under water. What my main complaint is how in the world could our government that sticks it neck out so often to help other countries leave these thousands of people to fend off such horrible conditions on their own for almost five days! Watch the news, watch anderson cooper screaming at the cameras wondering why he is in there on day two, with the rest of the media but NO help!!! Tell me if thousands of Natalie Holloways were drowning, starving and dying of illness for which they could not be treated would bush and his government wait five days to rescue them? I think not.
It is a matter of response time, or preparation for a disaster that this government has had plenty forewarnings about. Funny their was a New York Times article just one year ago in september spelling out what something like a category 3 hurricane could do to New Orleans and the levees and that engineers for the government were well aware of the implications. Why did our government not take the proper precautions and preparations to ensure that our people would be safe? Because we are too preoccupied with making corporations rich, keeping poor people poor and not caring if they die or not.
Bush did not cause a hurricane directly but he did let how many thousands of people die in the five days before he decided to act. Ask any of these people who are now trying to find their relatives, seek housing, find jobs and restart their lives if they think waiting five days for any help while they encounter horrific conditions and watch people deteriorate and die around them was worth the wait. Just ask them. I have family members who went through this and it is unbelievable that some of you on this site expect them to accept the fact that their leader, their president did nothing for them for almost a week while their fellow americans and children died.

[ArtRollins]

http://www.fema.gov/

Okay, I looked it up. What point are you trying to make?

WHoboy

FEMA are the people that did the investigation at 911 and determined that the CIA agent that was paid billions to help the USA, one Osama Bin Laden, had decided to send some planes into some buildings. FEMA, you know, the guys that find radon in the basement? Well, now they aint your grandfathers FEMA

FEMA has released to the media and on its Web site a list of suggested
charities to help the storm's hundreds of thousands of victims. The Red
Cross is first on the list. The Rev. Pat Robertson's "Operation Blessing"
is next on the list. Do you like cults?

Isnt it nice to have FEMA taking care of all our emergencies, or perhaps one needs to look a little more at just who and what they are????

I would have felt better if a crime like the demolition of the Twin Towers in NY were conducted as such by some agency like the FBI rather than FEMA, but there you go, GW wouldnt have it any other way.

So, what did YOU find at FEMA?

[GHoSToKeR]

Well, I don't know what point the guy was trying to make. So I found the site, but didn't know what it was the guy was telling me to look for, so i'm asking him to clarify.

By the way, i'm from the UK.... ("if u say this is not a criminal govenment then i say you are a government borg or you have to take the blinders off")

[beatpixie]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_09/007023.php

this link is the timeline for the defunding by Fema of the Levie construction.

[eg420ne]

just sayin nothing what u Ghostoker said i was just putting it out there

[GHoSToKeR]

That's not surprising. I'm sure this won't be the last catastrophe to hit the US made worse by budget cuts and defunding. And we all know what that money is being spent on, right?

ArtRollins, are you seriously blaming the attack on the WTC on FEMA and the Bush administration? I'm as anti-Bush as the next guy, but even I don't believe that.

[beatpixie]

I don't think 9/11 was Bush's fault. The disregarding of the memo "Bin Laden determined to strike US" by Bush a little unnerving.

[ArtRollins]

I quite agree that there are no governments that are not criminal. Moreover that each of them is no longer a representative responsible government, but actually incorporated. Corporations, you know, they are just like your company, no different except for the extortion part. They dont "earn" money, they take it from the people that make it and give them back a bit while pocketing the rest. Life no? Limited liability makes for no exposure and the added immunity of office, well, the rest is clear.

Governments are the biggest shell game. Everyones, without doubt.

[ArtRollins]

Now widely reported on the net - German TV crews took longer to dismantle
their gear after the President's photo up yesterday (Friday), and were thus
able to capture the fact that all the bulldozers and recovery crews visible
in the background during Bush's appearance . . . packed up and left shortly
after he did.

german tv link:
http://www.tagesschau.de/video/0,1315,OID4700936_RESreal256_PLYinternal_NAV_BAB,0 0.html

transcription and translation:
note, this is a live report from Biloxi.

TRANSCRIPTION

Zum letzten Stand jetzt live aus Biloxi Christine Adelhardt

Vor 2 Minuten ist hier gerade der Präsident in seinem Konvoi
vorbeigefahren. Was sich hier in Biloxi aber während des Tages abgespielt
hat, ist wirklich unglaublich. Plötzlich tauchten hier Bergungstrupps auf,
plötzlich waren hier Räumfahrzeuge, die hatte man die ganzen Tage hier
vorher nicht gesehen, und das in einem Gebiet, indem es wirklich nicht
notwendig wäre, gro� aufzuräumen, weil hier lebt weit und breit kein Mensch
mehr, die Menschen sind weiter innen in der Stadt. Der Präsident reist mit
einem Pressetross. Dieser Pressetross hat damit sehr schöne Bilder, die da
sagen sollen, der Präsident war da und die Hilfe, die wird auch kommen. Das
AusmaÃ? der Naturkatastrophe hat mich geschockt aber das AusmaÃ? der
Inszenierung hier heute schockt mich mindestens genauso. Damit zurück nach
Hamburg

TRANSLATION

On the last state of things here's Christine Adelhardt live from Biloxi

2 minutes ago the President drove past in his convoy. But what has happened
in Biloxi all day long is truly unbelievable. Suddenly recovery units
appeared, suddenly bulldozers were there, those hadn't been seen here all
the days before, and this in an area, in which it really wouldn't be
necessary to do a big clean up, because far and wide nobody lives here
anymore, the people are more inland in the city. The President travels with
a press baggage [big crew]. This press baggage got very beautiful pictures
which are supposed to say, that the President was here and help is on the
way, too. The extent of the natural disaster shocked me, but the extent of
the staging is shocking me at least the same way. With that back to Hamburg.

[GHoSToKeR]

Thanks for the link, Art... it's pretty shocking, huh?

However, you claimed that they reported that the bulldozers etc packed up after Bush left... It doesn't say that anywhere on the site, so where did you get it from?

[ArtRollins]

Thanks for the link, Art... it's pretty shocking, huh?

However, you claimed that they reported that the bulldozers etc packed up after Bush left... It doesn't say that anywhere on the site, so where did you get it from?

Satlink it was on the downlink, that is the translation and the german original transcript.

Did you read the Patriot Act yet? Now that is scary. I dont have the new updated one, but if you take the freedom and liberty with inalienable rights, then read that, you wonder what happened to the American government. By the way, did you note that the agent A'dam would not declare he was not one the other day?

That patriot act is always in the download section at onlinetv.com and I think we may post other documents to read.

[ArtRollins]

Thanks for the link, Art... it's pretty shocking, huh?

However, you claimed that they reported that the bulldozers etc packed up after Bush left... It doesn't say that anywhere on the site, so where did you get it from?

Hey, worse, note the video is no longer there, they have removed it, not the page, but the report. Who said there was a free press?

http://www.911eyewitness.com for the anniversary

[shiva]

No,as you will note, any conservative right arm of the republican party will twist the words of the left.Consider this, what liberals are saying is Bush and his croonies cut back on funding for levees,the U.S.S.Bataan waited days to help out,waiting for the president to authrize use to do so.It's points such as these that the far left are upset about.Me, personally I am a liberal dem.And I would suggest even that anyone who smokes weed is liberal,anyone who actually votes rep. in America might as well be a narc.Who were the judges that violated states rights in the Ashcroft VS. Reich case? The conservative right, thats who, lokk between the lines.That Ashcroft VS. Reich case shat all over states rights, and it is the same conservative right judges that will roll back the books on other issues such as public domain,and abortion.Don't trust a conservative when it comes to a libaral message board like cannabis.com if we gotta start a poll thread then I am all for it. A poll on cannabis.com on how many of us lean to the left,and how many of us lean to the right.PLLLZZZ.