Torog

[naturalmystic]

I don't mean to single you out. But, if God loves us all, why did he let Hurricane Katrina fuck up the gulf coast so bad?

[BobBong]

I don't mean to single you out. But, if God loves us all, why did he let Hurricane Katrina fuck up the gulf coast so bad?

That wasn't God, that was Satan

[Torog]

I don't mean to single you out. But, if God loves us all, why did he let Hurricane Katrina f*ck up the gulf coast so bad?
Howdy natural,

Because God gave us free will .. and we are here to learn our lessons of Life..Earth is not Heaven..where we will feel no pain and we know and understand the Truth,this mortal coil,is for evolving our souls to a point that we can enter Heaven..how we respond to such terrible events,yields more in learning..than if God spared us everytime something bad was about to happen. We can pray for God to spare lives,because being alive..is more valuable than all of the material wealth in the world.

Have a good one...

[weirdo79]

You wouldnt feel pain without nerve endings anyway Torog....Without the body if and when the "soul" survives it couldnt feel pain not having nerve endings and all (the only reason WE feel pain....)

[mrdevious]

It would seem for many people, the only lesson learned in many situations is that life is shit. everybody doesn't come out stronger and clearer minded from bad situations, and some come out down right hating god. and frankly, I don't know why god can't just create us as being all wise and perfect.

but, this is why I dont' believe in god. I've yet to see one single piece of logical evidence supporting his existence.

[tylerkane]

There is no god, you fucking weird religious people

[mrdevious]

There is no god, you fucking weird religious people

tsk tsk, no questioning the magical man in the sky.

[ermitonto]

As Euphoric brought up in another thread, if you can feel no pain in Heaven, what about spending eternity with the knowledge that many of your loved ones are in excruciating pain burning in a lake of fire? Surely that is greater than any pain you could endure on earth.

I'm pretty sure God, if he existed, would be smart enough to come up with a better, less painful method of teaching people knowledge than a hurricane. He would know everything there is to know about knowledge acquisition and effective teaching methods. He would even have the power to directly tamper with what we know and do not know (to assert that he can't because we have free will, is to say that God is not all-powerful...it seems to be just a matter of rearranging the molecules in the neural network of the brain). I mean, we COULD train doctors how to treat gunshot wounds by shooting them, but it's a lot easier to just explain it to them in a non-violent classroom setting. And if we had a computer that we could hook up to the student's brain and transfer all the information directly, like God should be able to do, it would be even easier, and nobody would have to get hurt.

[Warlock]

That wasn't God, that was Satan

HAHA! That's a good one!
Anything bad that happens just blame it on him.
You know, god has killed far many more people than satan, according to the bible satan has only killed one person, & only because god said he could.
What a prick god is.
I believe in none of it, it's all filth!

[mrdevious]

how come nobody considers that maybe god is just defaming satan because he's the opposing political party? I mean think about it, every dictator out there will do whatever it takes to keep the opposition down and convince the public the opposition is all that is wrong. I say we call a vote!

[Warlock]

That's impossible, because they don't exist!!

[ermitonto]

And who's to say God wouldn't just rig the election? After all, he is supposedly all-powerful. Which also means he wouldn't just bow down and let Satan rule the universe in the event of Satan winning the vote.

Also, an election would only be fair if it included all the intelligent species in the universe. Taking that into account, I highly doubt humanity would have any impact on the outcome of the vote at all. There must be tons and tons of intelligent lifeforms throughout the billions of galaxies that exist, and we only make up a tiny percentage of that population. It wouldn't really matter who anybody on this planet voted for.

[mellow mood]

why is ppl here ALWAYS trying to make the others feel like if they were wrong or something.

[Warlock]

Becuase some idiots have a lot of false hope, & believe in a pie in the sky. Those people were put here for my entertainment.

[Torog]

Becuase some idiots have a lot of false hope, & believe in a pie in the sky. Those people were put here for my entertainment.
Howdy Warlock,

I think that God-less heatherns like you,were put here as an example of what happens to those who choose to wallow in the pig sty of paganistic hedonism..and cast aside their spirituality,for the carnal pleasures of the flesh.

Ye shall know the Truth..when you pass to the other side of the veil between the living and the dead..to ignore your own soul..will bring great peril and harm upon you..to turn your back on God..will cause you to be an earth-bound spirit,forever lonely,sad and wretched. If all you have--is darkness in your heart..then Darkness will claim you. Ever see the movie,Ghost ? When the criminal,Willy,dies,the Dark shadows of Hell..come to claim him..such will be your fate..if you have no love or compassion , in yer heart and soul.

Repent of your sins..and acknowledge Jesus Christ,as the Son of God and your Saviour..and you shall be spared eternal torment and damnation,in the fires of Hell..stand with the Light..do not join with the Dark. If you seek Darkness..it will come to you..and you do not have the strength of spirit..to resist..you will be consumed..by the soul-eaters of Hell.

Have a good one ....

[ermitonto]

How can I possibly put my trust in Jesus Christ with this glaring lie of his in Matthew 16:28 (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/16.html#28)?

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
He clearly prophesied that the Second Coming would occur within the lifetimes of the people he was speaking to way back in the first century. The fact that the Second Coming didn't happen within Jesus' allotted time frame is all the evidence we need to show that the prophecy of the Second Coming was false.

[Warlock]

Howdy Warlock,

I think that God-less heatherns like you,were put here as an example of what happens to those who choose to wallow in the pig sty of paganistic hedonism..and cast aside their spirituality,for the carnal pleasures of the flesh.

Ye shall know the Truth..when you pass to the other side of the veil between the living and the dead..to ignore your own soul..will bring great peril and harm upon you..to turn your back on God..will cause you to be an earth-bound spirit,forever lonely,sad and wretched. If all you have--is darkness in your heart..then Darkness will claim you. Ever see the movie,Ghost ? When the criminal,Willy,dies,the Dark shadows of Hell..come to claim him..such will be your fate..if you have no love or compassion , in yer heart and soul.

Repent of your sins..and acknowledge Jesus Christ,as the Son of God and your Saviour..and you shall be spared eternal torment and damnation,in the fires of Hell..stand with the Light..do not join with the Dark. If you seek Darkness..it will come to you..and you do not have the strength of spirit..to resist..you will be consumed..by the soul-eaters of Hell.

Have a good one ....

You complete fucking nutcase. You're the kind of moron I'm talking about.
You can stick Jesus & all his false teachings up your ass. I have no time for people like you.
There are no soul-eathers of hell, I think you've listened to too many horrific bible stories or seen too many Stephen King movies. Get over your false world & come get in touch with reality.

What is wrong with Carnal pleasures of the flesh?! Why would I deny them? I'll tell you why I won't stop taking part in carnal pleasures of the flesh...
Because I live life to the full & I have fun, not like you greasy little christians.
You are the weaker people on this earth & your day shall come.

[F L E S H]

How can I possibly put my trust in Jesus Christ with this glaring lie of his in Matthew 16:28 (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/16.html#28)?

He clearly prophesied that the Second Coming would occur within the lifetimes of the people he was speaking to way back in the first century. The fact that the Second Coming didn't happen within Jesus' allotted time frame is all the evidence we need to show that the prophecy of the Second Coming was false.
Actually, I have read in some books that it was not Jesus himself who said that the Second Coming would take place in the first or second centruy AD, but rather the new Christians. Remeber, Jesus didn't write the Gospels, and no one was following him taking notes in order to write books. The Gospels were written between 50 and 100 years after Jesus died, so there's obviously going to be mistakes and intentional changes by the authors. The evangelists simply wrote down the Gospels as they thought it should be, and that's what we're left with.

To call Jesus a liar is a bit of an exaggeration, but it's true that early Christians believed the Second Coming was imminent. Actually, around the year A.D. 1,000 was some mass hysteria for 4 reasons: the Vikings were raiding northern European coastal towns, the Magyars were steamrolling through eastern Europe to eventually settle in Hungary, killing everything in their path, the Muslims in North Africa were at their peak and were threatening Europe by taking over more than half of Spain, and would have continued were it not for Charles Martel, a French king (!) who defeated them. The final reason we know all to well: I'll just call it YK. It was simply hysteria surrounding the fact that the year 1,000 would be an important number.

Well, 1,000 came and went, The Vikings and Magyars were converted, the Moors were pushed back.... That was really the end of belief in the imminence of End of Times.

BTW, Torog, stop deluding yourself and others, it's useless.

[Torog]

You complete f*cking nutcase. You're the kind of moron I'm talking about.
You can stick Jesus & all his false teachings up your ass. I have no time for people like you.
There are no soul-eathers of hell, I think you've listened to too many horrific bible stories or seen too many Stephen King movies. Get over your false world & come get in touch with reality.

What is wrong with Carnal pleasures of the flesh?! Why would I deny them? I'll tell you why I won't stop taking part in carnal pleasures of the flesh...
Because I live life to the full & I have fun, not like you greasy little christians.
You are the weaker people on this earth & your day shall come.
Howdy Warlock,

The flesh is weak...the spirit is strong and ever-lasting..indulging in the carnal pleasures of the flesh..weakens your soul..you exist for gratification of your wants,whims and desires..when will you feed your soul--instead of your flesh ?

You build your house on sand--I build mine on rock..which do you think is weakest ?

You're right about one thing..there will be a day of Judgement..for us all. And you won't be able to use any of your fellow God-less lawyers for your defense .. when you stand in Judgement before God..and your sins are read from the Book of Life.

Have a good one ....

[beachguy in thongs]

Warlock clearly believes in God from his mentioning of Hell.

[F L E S H]

Howdy Warlock,

The flesh is weak...the spirit is strong and ever-lasting..indulging in the carnal pleasures of the flesh..weakens your soul..you exist for gratification of your wants,whims and desires..when will you feed your soul--instead of your flesh ?

You build your house on sand--I build mine on rock..which do you think is weakest ?

You're right about one thing..there will be a day of Judgement..for us all. And you won't be able to use any of your fellow God-less lawyers for your defense .. when you stand in Judgement before God..and your sins are read from the Book of Life.

Have a good one ....
LOL
Please stop making me laugh... Reading your posts is like jumping into a time machine, I love it.

[Torog]

Howdy FLESH,

You request:"BTW, Torog, stop deluding yourself and others, it's useless."

From where I satnd,it's folks like you and Warlock,that are deluding others..and it's not only useless..but harmful as well. To feed on the pleasures of the flesh..is to starve the soul..how is it--that one can git high..without feeling their spirit ? How can one be a partaker of cannabis..and not feel their spirit ? You want your fellow cannibinauts to be shallow and 2 dimensional..we are much more than that ! When I git stoned..my spirit soars with joy..and the boundaries that our conscience mind constructs...fade away..it's like walking from a closet..into a huge stadium..or the outdoors..what was once bound--is free !

Have a good one ....

[Torog]

LOL
Please stop making me laugh... Reading your posts is like jumping into a time machine, I love it.
Howdy FLESH,

But...laughter is good for the soul..man ! lol

Yup..I'm stuck in the '70's..lol..and my values are old-fashioned too..I reckon that makes me politically-incorrect..oh well ! lol

Have a good one ...

[F L E S H]

Howdy FLESH,

But...laughter is good for the soul..man ! lol

Yup..I'm stuck in the '70's..lol..and my values are old-fashioned too..I reckon that makes me politically-incorrect..oh well ! lol

Have a good one ...
Oh no, I didn't mean the 1970s, I mean the 1070s, the 1170s... You preach and accept views on the Bible that have gone out of fashion centuries ago.

[Warlock]

Warlock clearly believes in God from his mentioning of Hell.

You're clearly wrong. Have you not read a thing i've said?

[Warlock]

Howdy Warlock,

The flesh is weak...the spirit is strong and ever-lasting..indulging in the carnal pleasures of the flesh..weakens your soul..you exist for gratification of your wants,whims and desires..when will you feed your soul--instead of your flesh ?

You build your house on sand--I build mine on rock..which do you think is weakest ?

You're right about one thing..there will be a day of Judgement..for us all. And you won't be able to use any of your fellow God-less lawyers for your defense .. when you stand in Judgement before God..and your sins are read from the Book of Life.

Have a good one ....

Yeah, OK, you're a complete looney. You really are. It shows what incompatence you display if you really think that, or indeed believe in these "prophets" & spirits etc.

[Torog]

Oh no, I didn't mean the 1970s, I mean the 1070s, the 1170s... You preach and accept views on the Bible that have gone out of fashion centuries ago.
Howdy FLESH,

Okay..I git it now...lol..say--did ya read my other reply to ya ? I was hoping for your comments on it too..it starts with"BTW...".

Have a good one !

[Lulu]

Isnâ??t there some way you can just be respectful of other peopleâ??s differences?
Everyone doesnâ??t have to believe the same thing,
God / Jehovah / Gaeya / Buddha / the great nothingâ?¦whatever.
Tolerance, respect and love are what itâ??s all about
â?? regardless of personal beliefs.
For a bunch of stoners you lot donâ??t half get your knickers in a knot.
Maybe you need to change your smoke����

Edit; stop insulting people - you're startin to piss me off

[Torog]

Yeah, OK, you're a complete looney. You really are. It shows what incompatence you display if you really think that, or indeed believe in these "prophets" & spirits etc.
Howdy Warlock,

Lordy ! Don't tell me that you only believe in what you can see..I thought that 'warlocks' believed in the spirit world.

Don't you know..that there are more things in Heaven and Earth..than Man will ever know ?

Have a good one...

[F L E S H]

Howdy FLESH,

You request:"BTW, Torog, stop deluding yourself and others, it's useless."

From where I satnd,it's folks like you and Warlock,that are deluding others..and it's not only useless..but harmful as well. To feed on the pleasures of the flesh..is to starve the soul..how is it--that one can git high..without feeling their spirit ? How can one be a partaker of cannabis..and not feel their spirit ? You want your fellow cannibinauts to be shallow and 2 dimensional..we are much more than that ! When I git stoned..my spirit soars with joy..and the boundaries that our conscience mind constructs...fade away..it's like walking from a closet..into a huge stadium..or the outdoors..what was once bound--is free !

Have a good one ....
You wanted my comments? Well guess what... You're absolutely right! About the getting stoned part, at least.... The difference, I simply refuse to place my spirit, life-force, or whatever you wanna call it in a Christian framework, because I simply don't believe in it. To me, putting your faith in an omnipotent being, caring more for the after-life than for life, are all mis-guided, and cannabis has only pushed me harder in that direction. Christianity is, simply put, to deny the potential of mankind to be God themselves. We live in our world now and today, so let's make it a better place now. The after-life is completely irrelevant for obvious reasons. Why make sacrifices today to ensure that you will be ok aftr you die? It really doesn't make sense to me. Do you really need a religion to tell you that killing someone is bad? that lying is bad? that disrespecting your parents is bad? No you don't because we already know that.

What you call God, I call consciousness. When you die, you wanna make things right with God, I wanna make things right with my conscience.

[F L E S H]

Isnâ??t there some way you can just be respectful of other peopleâ??s differences?
Everyone doesnâ??t have to believe the same thing,
God / Jehovah / Gaeya / Buddha / the great nothingâ?¦whatever.
Tolerance, respect and love are what itâ??s all about
â?? regardless of personal beliefs.
For a bunch of stoners you lot donâ??t half get your knickers in a knot.
Maybe you need to change your smoke����

Edit; stop insulting people - you're startin to piss me off

That's what happens in a religion forum... :D The thing is, when someone feels they're onto something, they tend to want others to 'see the light', so to speak...

[beachguy in thongs]

You're clearly wrong. Have you not read a thing i've said?

Yes, and you've said, in a different thread, that all hypocritical-Christians will... "burn in hell".

[beachguy in thongs]

Oh no, I didn't mean the 1970s, I mean the 1070s, the 1170s... You preach and accept views on the Bible that have gone out of fashion centuries ago.

Funny...off by several hundred years.

[Warlock]

Howdy Warlock,

Lordy ! Don't tell me that you only believe in what you can see..I thought that 'warlocks' believed in the spirit world.

Don't you know..that there are more things in Heaven and Earth..than Man will ever know ?

Have a good one...

I'll believe in anything with evidence that backs it up

[Warlock]

Yes, and you've said, in a different thread, that all hypocritical-Christians will... "burn in hell".

It's a phrase, as in pain.

[Warlock]

Howdy Warlock,

Lordy ! Don't tell me that you only believe in what you can see..I thought that 'warlocks' believed in the spirit world.



Have a good one...

It's a name, that's all.

[ermitonto]

Actually, I have read in some books that it was not Jesus himself who said that the Second Coming would take place in the first or second centruy AD, but rather the new Christians. Remeber, Jesus didn't write the Gospels, and no one was following him taking notes in order to write books. The Gospels were written between 50 and 100 years after Jesus died, so there's obviously going to be mistakes and intentional changes by the authors. The evangelists simply wrote down the Gospels as they thought it should be, and that's what we're left with.
Yes, I do realize that the Gospels were probably based on exaggerated oral history, so we can't really attribute anything said in the Bible directly to Jesus, but when Christians want me to trust in Jesus they want me to base that trust on the material contained in the Bible (since we have virtually no other sources for information about him). Since Biblejesus predicts the Second Coming within the lifetimes of the people alive at the time, I can't trust Biblejesus, and since I have no way of knowing what Realjesus actually said (assuming he existed), I can't trust Realjesus either.

By the way, what was the evidence that Jesus didn't really preach such a quick return? It seems to me like it would be downright impossible to prove what somebody said or didn't say 2000 years ago whose life was never documented until decades after his death.

[slipknotpsycho]

if God spared us everytime something bad was about to happen.

that right there is a contridictory statment to everything you christians and god believers stand behind remember? god is in control of everything if he is, then he COULDN'T spare anyone.... sparing someone is to save someone, you can't save someone if you do it on purpose (can't wait to see how the defendant christians turn this around on me) and as said before, if your book does portray him correctly, then he WOULD know a better way to provide wisdom then killing 100's if not 1000's of HIS innocent creatures. another thing, if he was all wise, and we're basicly nothing (in matter of inteligence) to him, then how is he so predictable? we can tell days ahead of tiem the chance for rain, we can tell days ahead of time alot of things, as long as it's not based on another human being (even then we still can alot of times) and ima leave it at this cuz i want this answered: if he's all wise, and we're 1000000000000000000000000000000's times less... how can we predict him so accurately?

[slipknotpsycho]

Howdy Warlock,

Lordy ! Don't tell me that you only believe in what you can see..I thought that 'warlocks' believed in the spirit world.

Don't you know..that there are more things in Heaven and Earth..than Man will ever know ?

Have a good one...
as to this, i'd a hell of a lot sooner believe in what i can see, then what i can't. i know this is probably taking it out of proportion, but, if i was to tell you there was a pink elephant flying shitting on people would you believe me? or would you not believe it til you saw it for yourself? say the 2nd one and i know you're lying....becasue only an insane person (or one without knowledge of such things) could possibly see that, much less believe that.....

[ermitonto]

that right there is a contridictory statment to everything you christians and god believers stand behind remember? god is in control of everything if he is, then he COULDN'T spare anyone....
Exactly. You can only "spare" somebody from something threatening if that threat is outside your control. Same goes for God, he could only "spare" somebody from something bad if that bad thing was outside his control somehow. Otherwise, he has simply neglected to do bad; he hasn't saved anyone from anything.

This reminds me of a similar glaring contradiction in the Christian conception of a God, which is the fact that the Christian God has very humanlike emotions. Sometimes he's loving and sometimes he's angry, sometime's he's forgiving and sometimes he's wrathful. In the Ten Commandments God admits to being a jealous God. So what's wrong with that? It's simple: emotions are always a response to a stimulus. If you're angry, it's because something in your present or recent past has created a situation you perceive as an injustice. If you're sad, it's because in your present moment something that made you happy or might have made you happy has been taken away from you. But God is supposed to be timeless, experiencing and knowing thoroughly all eternity at once. So he should not show such widely varying emotions. He should not be able to experience anger since he supposedly knows that ultimately all the injustices in the universe will be corrected. The Christian God does not experience stimuli in timed sequences like us, but knows all events in the universe of all times, and should be acting in accordance with the sum total of that knowledge, not just the knowledge of the stimuli that have come up at the time as perceived by humans.

And if individual actions have any influence on God's emotions, this becomes quickly absurd. Say for instance I do something that the Bible looks down upon, like for instance keep my long hair (see here (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/11.html#14) for the Bible verse condemning men wearing long hair), and this supposedly makes God angry. Now that's not fair to the rest of humanity, who must now suffer the consequences of living in a universe with an angry deity simply because of my individual decision about my hairstyle, despite all their devoted chants and idolatry intended to please the deity. So perhaps the deity is indeed amused by the chants and idolatry somehow, and he feels many emotions at once, feeling happiness in some parts because of the chants and idolatry but feeling wrathful anger in other parts because of my long hair.

But this begs the question: why does a "perfect" God not have the self-esteem to be able to live contently without forcing people to worship him all the time and follow his arbitrary rules, or else suffer the punishment of eternal burning?

[Torog]

You wanted my comments? Well guess what... You're absolutely right! About the getting stoned part, at least.... The difference, I simply refuse to place my spirit, life-force, or whatever you wanna call it in a Christian framework, because I simply don't believe in it. To me, putting your faith in an omnipotent being, caring more for the after-life than for life, are all mis-guided, and cannabis has only pushed me harder in that direction. Christianity is, simply put, to deny the potential of mankind to be God themselves. We live in our world now and today, so let's make it a better place now. The after-life is completely irrelevant for obvious reasons. Why make sacrifices today to ensure that you will be ok aftr you die? It really doesn't make sense to me. Do you really need a religion to tell you that killing someone is bad? that lying is bad? that disrespecting your parents is bad? No you don't because we already know that.

What you call God, I call consciousness. When you die, you wanna make things right with God, I wanna make things right with my conscience.
Howdy FLESH,

Well I'm glad that ya agree with the gittin stoned part..lol..I figured that you would..but sometimes I wonder..when folks who toke,turn around and say that they don't believe in God or the spirit world or their own souls..I just don't understand how someone can be so shallow as to not feel the expansion of conscicousness that occurs when they toke.

Now don't git me wrong..I ain't saying we should neglect the here and now or our physical lives,on the contrary,our physical lives in the here and now,are very vital. I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.

In regards to the question of morality..I would ask you--which came first ? Judeo-Christian values,from which many of our laws originate..or the amoral relativism of the Left ?

If a child is raised without any moral guidance or with amoral relativism,there would be nothing to prevent them from lying,cheating,stealing or murder..because they would see doing such,as tools to git what they want for themselves..and to heck with everyone else. The Left,would have us believe,that there is no higher goal,than satisfying one's every desire and want..there's no compelling reason to be of good character,because such,defeats the hedonistic goals of liberalism..virtues such as honesty,honor and selflessness,have no place in a liberal world..where if it feels good..do it.

Have a good one ....

[slipknotpsycho]

I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.
i respect that's your beliefs, but it never ceases to amaze me the excuses people make for their god, ok here's one i'd like to see someone make an excuse for, why.... just simply why would some high deity that obviously expresses human emotion (as told by your book) create all this, leave billions over the years to suffer and not do a damn thing to intervene? what could your god hope to gain from watching alooooooooooooooooooooooot of lesser creatures roam the 'earth he made' and 'learn spirtiual lessons' he's all knowing all wise (according to yal) and he can do anything he absolutely feels like. so why, even if you ever did prove your god is real, i'd still never worship him. know why? cuz it just seems like he enjoys playing 'doll house' just a little bit too much. according to yal he gives to US, so i'll ask again, what could he hope to gain from this all? he can't gain wisdom he has it, can't gain wealth he doesn't need it, can't gain companionism becasue no one's ever seen or talked to him. so about the only thing possible left for him to gain from it all (given the circumstances) is entertainment.... and if your god is entertained by death, famine, plague, heartache, pain, struggle, heinous crimes, and suffering, well then he's not so mighty in my mind and i want nothing to do with him.

[GHoSToKeR]

Isnâ??t there some way you can just be respectful of other peopleâ??s differences?
Everyone doesnâ??t have to believe the same thing,
God / Jehovah / Gaeya / Buddha / the great nothingâ?¦whatever.
Tolerance, respect and love are what itâ??s all about
â?? regardless of personal beliefs.
For a bunch of stoners you lot donâ??t half get your knickers in a knot.
Maybe you need to change your smoke����

Edit; stop insulting people - you're startin to piss me off

Nice post, Lulu. I've only read this far, but all I see is people slagging eachother off. Warlok, so what if you don't believe in God? Why do you have to be insulting and offensive about it? You're not getting your point across very well, you're just looking foolish and, well, ignorant.

I don't believe in God either, but I still get on with Torog really well (at least I think... Torog? lol) because I respect his opinions and I try not to be insulting.. sometimes I fail but at least I try. Why can't you?

[GHoSToKeR]

ermitonto, surely a a deity such as the Christian God, being omnipotent, would be able to feel those emotions if he wanted to? Surely it would be a matter of willing himself to feel them?

Torog, of course there have been times when smoking has been a spiritual experience. But spirituality comes in all forms, all shapes and sizes. You and I may have experienced the same feeling while being baked, but you interpreted it as a connection with your God, where as I interpret it as an expanding of my conscious mind. A freeing of the constraints of my consciousness which lets me percieve the world around me in a completely different way. Experiencing this doesn't make me believe in God, but it does make me believe in the importance of the world around me, because when i'm high I can truely take in it's beauty.

[slipknotpsycho]

i try to keep it calm (even tho me and torog have seemed to have arguments about god multiple tiems before) what i've seen with my eyes, in this life.... just makes me so damned angry and doesn't make sense to me, we're all entitled to our own opinions and beliefs and should i ever insult anyone (atleast when pertaining to religion) it is not intended. i guess you could say i like to debate (i call it arguing but other grown people call it debating) alot of times i get caught up in where i'm going and end up trailing off subject and making ridiculously long posts... but i can't help it, i just get so worked up over it.

[GHoSToKeR]

Hey I do the same, man. lol It's just people like Warlok really piss me off. I don't give a shit if you're Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever.. you shouldn't talk about other people's beliefs like that. :(

[F L E S H]

Yes, I do realize that the Gospels were probably based on exaggerated oral history, so we can't really attribute anything said in the Bible directly to Jesus, but when Christians want me to trust in Jesus they want me to base that trust on the material contained in the Bible (since we have virtually no other sources for information about him). Since Biblejesus predicts the Second Coming within the lifetimes of the people alive at the time, I can't trust Biblejesus, and since I have no way of knowing what Realjesus actually said (assuming he existed), I can't trust Realjesus either.

By the way, what was the evidence that Jesus didn't really preach such a quick return? It seems to me like it would be downright impossible to prove what somebody said or didn't say 2000 years ago whose life was never documented until decades after his death.
Let me just note, for the record, everything you write I agree with. I was just putting in my own 2 cents :D Of course there's no sure way of knowing what Jesus REALLY said, but some scholars I feel do come close in that they extrapolate from events in the Gospels and suppose what could really have happened. But then again, it's still just speculation, and reading these scholars' thoughts (most of which are Christians themselves, even priests!) makes me even more firm in my belief that there is no god, ironically.

[F L E S H]

Howdy FLESH,

Well I'm glad that ya agree with the gittin stoned part..lol..I figured that you would..but sometimes I wonder..when folks who toke,turn around and say that they don't believe in God or the spirit world or their own souls..I just don't understand how someone can be so shallow as to not feel the expansion of conscicousness that occurs when they toke.

Now don't git me wrong..I ain't saying we should neglect the here and now or our physical lives,on the contrary,our physical lives in the here and now,are very vital. I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.

In regards to the question of morality..I would ask you--which came first ? Judeo-Christian values,from which many of our laws originate..or the amoral relativism of the Left ?

If a child is raised without any moral guidance or with amoral relativism,there would be nothing to prevent them from lying,cheating,stealing or murder..because they would see doing such,as tools to git what they want for themselves..and to heck with everyone else. The Left,would have us believe,that there is no higher goal,than satisfying one's every desire and want..there's no compelling reason to be of good character,because such,defeats the hedonistic goals of liberalism..virtues such as honesty,honor and selflessness,have no place in a liberal world..where if it feels good..do it.

Have a good one ....
This has absolutely nothing to do with amoral relativism of the Left... Why does it always come back to that with you? Jesus did not invent morality. Morality was not born 2,000 years ago in Bethlehem. My point is that morality does not come from the Bible, but it is deeply ingrained within every human being. We all instinctively know what is right or wrong, regardless of what religion we follow. We then choose later on in life whether we will give in to our conscience or ignore it completely.

By your logic, anyone who is not Judeo-Christian is amoral. Unfortunately, I think that's what happens when you haven't been in contact with many people from different cultures (and don't mention the oil-drilling in Saudi Arabia, I already know about that :D) In Montreal, there are people literally from all over the world. My girlfriend is Chinese, and her family follows Buddhist traditions. But you would be surprised at how much we have in common in terms of values and morals, me the confirmed Italian atheist and her the non-religious Chinese Buddhist. And it's not ike that only with her.

Deep down, every human being's sense of morality is the same, each one just chooses to listen to it or ignore it. That's what I believe at least, and that's one of the reasons Christianity is not important in my life, because ultimately it's just telling me what I already know (in terms of morality of course).

[mellow mood]

yea quebec rocks

texas, and sorry if i may not be correct, seems to be a pretty closed minded, and should i add a lot racist area. only white "rednecks". and this is not directed to you torog.

i respect your beleifs and everyone's beleifs here. but i think, sorry i didnt read the whole thread, that if u think someone is "amoral" or whatever coz he doesnt beleive in any god or who knows any spiritual thing, u are the one that is amoral.

i cant say im right more than u can say you are. we are all right from our own point of view from our own world. i doesnt particularly beleive in a god, but i do beleive that our world is way more than what we, simple humans, can see.

peace

[slipknotpsycho]

actually you got it backwards, caucasians are becoming the minority here.... and all these mexicans around me (no offense to anyone of hispanic background, i'm not racists believe me) always see a single white person and start talking shit, usually starting off by saying "punk ass white boy" it is closed minded pretty much tho, bush is a prime example of the type that come from here. oh and there's not really as many rednecks as people believe anymore.... matter of fact, i can't remember the last time i've seen a real redneck around here.

[Mellow Man]

I don't mean to single you out. But, if God loves us all, why did he let Hurricane Katrina fuck up the gulf coast so bad?


Look at this way! satan more then likely played a huge hand in katrina! for example the scriptures say that in the lst days Satan will come fourth with even more power! after all Satan is the father of this world!...........But Christ can also be seen through all of this! for example look at all of the passion calls gone out across the world!,love is breaking through all of the darkness,God doesn't make these things happen he allows them to happen!...

maybe it's a lesson for people in general or perhaps a sign in the making,or a huge passion call to humble man before God!..............I don't blame God for any of it! thats why the Lord says hold fast to me and don't let go! don't be one of the 5 virgins who let their lamps go out becauses you never know when the Lord may come for you!.............Death doesn't really matter! to the Lord what matters to him is what you did with your life when you had it!..................because if you held to Christ through it all youl'l never taste death you may die in a storm or flood or war or what ever! but if your with Christ in your heart when you die! you actually don't taste death you continue to enter into Christ's love!..............."Lord tell us when will the end come"...Jesus says" You look for the end but have you found the beginning?" you see the beginning is where the3 end is too! but you can't find the end until you have found the beginning!................Christ is the beginning to a never ending end! the cycle of Love continue's..............

[slipknotpsycho]

after all Satan is the father of this world
really....... i thought the bible says god created the heavens and the earth, and man in his own image.... so explain how what you say makes sense: satan is the father of this world, but god made it

[Mellow Man]

really....... i thought the bible says god created the heavens and the earth, and man in his own image.... so explain how what you say makes sense: satan is the father of this world, but god made it

This world became sin when eve and adam fell from grace!...the world was made by God but satan rules it!.............but only for a time and that time is almost up! then satan will be once again bound!...

[ermitonto]

Why would God allow Satan to rule the Earth? Isn't God supposed to be good and all-powerful? You can't be good and all-powerful AND let the epitome of evil rule the Earth. Those two things just don't go together. You have this wonderful organ between your ears called a brain, and you might want to fire it up sometime.

[slipknotpsycho]

i agree, as i hammer harder and harder to show how i see things, your excuses for your god become, well can't think of a better word so i'll go with this: they become more and more stupid. now you don't even sound like a normal christian trying to convert everyone to your religion like god is cable and all else is satalite, now you just sound like one of those lunatics standing on corners yelling at everyone the end is near (which can probably be dated back past european civilization moving to NA if i really looked hard enough) these people say the world will end in a relatively short ammount of time (lets say 100 years, just as the max.. but it's usually saying the world will end within the next year). now if these people have been 'warning' us for atleast 500 years the world will end within the next 100..yea you see where i'm going with this.


nothing lasts forever, and the world will end eventually yes, but there is no magical man that is going to make it happen, nor will another magical man come to take all the 'repented' and 'forgiven' souls to heaven while the rest suffer. the world will end, it's not a matter of prophecy or god's will, it's just matter of facts.

[mellow mood]

heres a simple answer

if god is all, how can satan exist, coz that would mean satan is god

now to anybody christian here stop fuckin sayin oh god made it when a good thing happened and oh its satan's fault if something bad happened

this is just stupid. it happened because the earth is fucked up with all the pollution and all the natural circumstances.

[beachguy in thongs]

I remember when Satan was an angel. He still has a little bit of good in him, don't ya think?

[mellow mood]

i think th is is bullsh*t

[beachguy in thongs]

What is?

[beachguy in thongs]

Bullshit is the same as your shit. Just smells nastier.

[mrdevious]

Perhapse god just loves reading threads about people debating his works.

[mellow mood]

beachguy, i said that this story that satan was an angel

i always asked myself how those stories came to us. i mean one day "god" decided to tell a guy that satan used to be an angel or wut. and i knew u were jking, but still some ppl really beleive this

all those stores are pure invention and i cant beleive how everyone can rely on them, using those "stories" like arguments

[ermitonto]

The very existence of a place called "Hell" is absurd. According to Christians, Satan is just a tool God uses to eternally punish the people who go against his rules. We all know this, Satan is just another cog in God's big universal system of judgment, supposedly. When God doesn't like your soul, he sends it down to Satan to deal with it instead of showing some sort of compassion or forgiveness or those other properties God is supposed to have. Once you die, the whole Christian principle of forgiveness goes out the window, and you can never be forgiven ever again, no matter how much you try to change your ways in Hell. So what good is this eternal punishment system doing anybody? If you ask me, if this were really the way the universe works, God would be the most heinous creature in the entire universe. I mean, damning people to eternal torture is worse than genocide. Some compassionate, forgiving God that is.

[mellow mood]

ill translate: christianism is contradictive

[dark0ne]

if you look at the universe from the big angle, not just looking out from earth. we are a dot on an infentesimal plain, spinning and whirlling just like evry other thing in the universe. life as we know it didn't start billions of years ago, thats just where the earth came into play. religion is just a belife that there is some creator watching over us to give us guidelines for life. there is nothing wrong with praying, to your respectfull deity. but it's kind of silly waging a war over somthing that DOES NOT EXSIST! and the wars waged in their names are the most horrific in our history. yes fallow the teachings of christ, learn from budda, and alah, take it all in as life lessons and live how YOU want. god gave us free will for a reason....... use it.

sorry if i missspelled anybody's diety, i mean no disrespect, i am however stoned.

[GHoSToKeR]

mellow, this is all your argument seems to consist of;

"christianity is a load of fucking shit, it's wrong, i'm right, how can you be so dumb? fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck".

Try arguing your case instead of looking like some pissed off 12 year old, or nobody is actually going to listen to you.

[beachguy in thongs]

all those stores are pure invention and i cant beleive how everyone can rely on them, using those "stories" like arguments

Just for the record, the past is the past, the angels are angels, and God is whatever, or whoever, you want it/him to be.

People go their whole lives and die. Do they ever tell anybody about their experiences? I wish I could talk to the dead.

[ermitonto]

You can talk to the dead. But since their brains and bodies have decomposed they no longer have the capacity to form thoughts and respond to you.

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

I don't mean to single you out. But, if God loves us all, why did he let Hurricane Katrina fuck up the gulf coast so bad?

in christianity God's son is Jesus. now all parents love their children, and that's a big bond. he let his son die a fucking brutal death because it served another purpose...

[Mellow Man]

Not only is Jesus the son of God! he is God as well!.........Jesus said the greatest act of Love is to lay your life down for another! and if Jesus was only the son would have meant he did the greatest act by allowing himself to die for us!...Of course Jesus wouldn't try to top his father infact he was always equal to the father! but stuill humbled himself......so when Jesus died God actually died! through him!.if people are confused in Jesus and the father both ebing God at the sametime doesn't make sense....but look at it this way picture for example god took a piece of himself and planted it on earth.it now becomes Jesus but yet is still the father! I am in the father and the Father is in me!.................So in actual fact God died that day or a part of him ...keep believing...............

[ermitonto]

Whoa man, what are you on? Oh yeah, Christianity, I forgot.

[slipknotpsycho]

you just gave me a major headache, you are so fuckin retarded 'not only is jesus god's sun but he is god!' he cannot be his own son! i don't care how all mighty and powerful you are, he wouldn't be his son, he'd be himself put into a human body!

[ermitonto]

...

[weirdo79]

(New DARE message) Avoid christianity effects are similar to heavy Meth use and sometimes salvia like babbling may occur.

[MyAntiDrugIsAmy]

i think there's a reason most hardcore christians in the church see smoking pot as evil, because it makes the ppl that get into it in the church all crazy and narrow-minded and talk even more beligerent bullshit. open up ppl, it's ok to question things that you believe.

[F L E S H]

Pot makes people narrow-minded??? You really are a moron. The Church don't like pot because it makes people (well, most people, anyway) wake up and see all the bullshit that lies at the very core of the Christian belief system.

Pot smokers are way mmore open minded than any church goer, believe you me.

[beachguy in thongs]

Pot makes people narrow-minded???

Can't you tell???

[F L E S H]

I guess all that pot I've been smoking made me too narrow-minded to realize it... :D

[beachguy in thongs]

Saying that 'pot makes you narrow-minded' is the same thing as saying that everyone smokes pot to get high.

Stereotypinalizationalities.

[GHoSToKeR]

"Stereotypinalizationalities"

Best word ever.

[slipknotpsycho]

i'm suprised being a pothead (among other drugs) i can even pronounce that word :eek:

[beachguy in thongs]

"Stereotypinalizationalities"

Best word ever.

You know where I get that shit from??? It's from songs like "You Bet Your Life" off the Roll the Bones album by Rush. The end of the song rambles off particular types of people and rambles like that, something like, Neo-modern Catholic Creation Evolutionist. He's a brilliant writer and everyone one of their songs are quite an interesting read. If ya want, I can find Rush lyrics and post the link to it, but it's all over the internet.