Torog and Hamster can be proud

[BlueCat]

I was reading at a Chinese news site and found this paper going around. It has hit the German and Russian news sites too.
It is interesting to read what the rest of the world thinks...
We sure do sound terrible. :(


The United States has been releasing annually Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, censuring other countries for their human rights situations, but it has turned a blind eye to serious violations of human rights on its own soil. This double standard on human rights issues cannot but meet with strong rejection and opposition worldwide, leaving the United States more and more isolated in the international community...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-04/03/content_813904.htm

[F L E S H]

I just read something you might find interesting, Cat...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=679&e=4&u=/usatoday/20050715/cm_usatoday/latinosseebacklashtogrowthinsouth

Latinos see backlash to growth in South By Annette Fuentes
Fri Jul 15, 7:38 AM ET



Latinos are not only the largest minority, they are also the fastest growing segment of the U.S. population. Most of that growth is coming from children born to Latino parents - not from immigrants.

ADVERTISEMENT

Behind the dry statistics, though, are the real life experiences of Latinos. Some of the recent stories surfacing from the newest centers of Latino population - many in the South - are troubling tales of anti-immigrant backlash and government institutions' unpreparedness to speak the language and understand the cultures of their newest residents.


Exhibit A is the ongoing saga of Felipa Barrera, an immigrant whose 11-year-old daughter was placed in foster care by a judge in Lebanon, a suburb of Nashville. Barrera was accused of hitting her daughter. But Judge Barry Tatum overstepped his authority when he ordered her to learn English or risk losing custody permanently. Barrera, who has been in the country for a decade, is one of 400 Mixteco Indians in Lebanon who speak their own language. Her attorneys argued that being a good parent has nothing to do with what language one speaks.


Though the judge relented on his language order, Barrera's due process rights were violated, say her lawyers, because there was no interpreter during the first hearings. That isn't unusual, according to attorney Melody Fowler Green, of the American Civil Liberties Union: "I did many cases in Arkansas, and there was just one certified interpreter for the federal court. The laws aren't keeping up with the population growth."


The case has stirred controversy beyond Lebanon and spotlighted the burgeoning Latino communities in the South. Nashville had 7,000 Latinos in 1990 and today has more than 40,000, according to The Pew Hispanic Center. Atlanta's Latino growth rose from 55,000 to more than a quarter of a million in that period.


Barrera's case is not an aberration but a chapter in an anti-immigrant backlash in the South that prompted the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund to open an office in Atlanta three years ago.


"We were hearing stories of a lack of interpreters and violence," says Nina Perales, MALDEF's regional counsel in San Antonio. In Norcross, Ga., MALDEF defended a Mexican store owner who was fined for having a Spanish sign. In North Carolina, it intervened when a challenge was filed against voters with Spanish surnames in an effort to disqualify them. "The backlash bleeds into different areas, like voting rights," she says.


In a region where race relations historically have been painted in black and white, the emerging Latino South is posing challenges to local and state governments. But whatever their color or language, the new Southerners are entitled to equal justice under the law.


Annette Fuentes is an adjunct professor at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism.

[nicholasstanko]

I just read something you might find interesting, Cat...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=679&e=4&u=/usatoday/20050715/cm_usatoday/latinosseebacklashtogrowthinsouth

Latinos see backlash to growth in South By Annette Fuentes
Fri Jul 15, 7:38 AM ET



Latinos are not only the largest minority, they are also the fastest growing segment of the U.S. population. Most of that growth is coming from children born to Latino parents - not from immigrants.

ADVERTISEMENT

Behind the dry statistics, though, are the real life experiences of Latinos. Some of the recent stories surfacing from the newest centers of Latino population - many in the South - are troubling tales of anti-immigrant backlash and government institutions' unpreparedness to speak the language and understand the cultures of their newest residents.


Exhibit A is the ongoing saga of Felipa Barrera, an immigrant whose 11-year-old daughter was placed in foster care by a judge in Lebanon, a suburb of Nashville. Barrera was accused of hitting her daughter. But Judge Barry Tatum overstepped his authority when he ordered her to learn English or risk losing custody permanently. Barrera, who has been in the country for a decade, is one of 400 Mixteco Indians in Lebanon who speak their own language. Her attorneys argued that being a good parent has nothing to do with what language one speaks.


Though the judge relented on his language order, Barrera's due process rights were violated, say her lawyers, because there was no interpreter during the first hearings. That isn't unusual, according to attorney Melody Fowler Green, of the American Civil Liberties Union: "I did many cases in Arkansas, and there was just one certified interpreter for the federal court. The laws aren't keeping up with the population growth."


The case has stirred controversy beyond Lebanon and spotlighted the burgeoning Latino communities in the South. Nashville had 7,000 Latinos in 1990 and today has more than 40,000, according to The Pew Hispanic Center. Atlanta's Latino growth rose from 55,000 to more than a quarter of a million in that period.


Barrera's case is not an aberration but a chapter in an anti-immigrant backlash in the South that prompted the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund to open an office in Atlanta three years ago.


"We were hearing stories of a lack of interpreters and violence," says Nina Perales, MALDEF's regional counsel in San Antonio. In Norcross, Ga., MALDEF defended a Mexican store owner who was fined for having a Spanish sign. In North Carolina, it intervened when a challenge was filed against voters with Spanish surnames in an effort to disqualify them. "The backlash bleeds into different areas, like voting rights," she says.


In a region where race relations historically have been painted in black and white, the emerging Latino South is posing challenges to local and state governments. But whatever their color or language, the new Southerners are entitled to equal justice under the law.


Annette Fuentes is an adjunct professor at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism.


Let me just point out that any person BORN in the united states is considered a citizen.

If you allow a million plus people to just wantonly cross the border to have kids, of course the latin population will increse expedentiously their children granted all rights...even though they were stolen.

[Psycho4Bud]

Chineese paper has the nerve to bad mouth our system? What a JOKE!!!! Tibet, Taiwan, etc... In their own land; one baby per family...parents that have a female child are killing them because they want a male to carry on the family name. In their hospitals, they tie a womans tubes after birth to uphold their philosophy. And they have the nerve to badmouth!!

From the article:
　In 2001, there were 638,000 narcotics-related cases, and drug abuse accounted for 25 percent of violent crime in the United States.

When the communist regime took over after WW2 you know how they dealt with the opium abuse problem? They pulled the addict, sometimes the whole family, out of their house and executed them in the street for all to see. No trial, no addiction aid, BANG BANG one less drug user! Fuck China and their opinion of us!!!

[Button Basher]

Fuck China and their opinion of us!!!

Yeah, they shouldn't have the right unless their opinion doesn't upset you, huh? :rolleyes:

I wonder if they said the same thing when the US filed it's report.

[Psycho4Bud]

Yeah, they shouldn't have the right unless their opinion doesn't upset you, huh? :rolleyes:

I wonder if they said the same thing when the US filed it's report.

Read this and tell me they have the right to call any kettle black!
http://www.angelfire.com/stars/dorina/dpchina.html

I'm DEFINATELY not saying that we are perfect..but that fuckin country has no right to talk about anything we do!

[Psycho4Bud]

Another nice article about Chineese justice:

Chinese soldiers escort drug dealers to a public sentence at the Wulin Square in Hangzhou, east China's Zhejiang province June 24, 2005. Twenty drug dealers were sentenced and six of them were executed on Friday. The public sentence was part of activities to mark the upcoming International Anti-Drugs day that falls on Sunday

http://english.sohu.com/20050627/n226090671.shtml

[Button Basher]

I believe they do. It's called freedom of speech. You know, that little gem?

Whoever was in charge of the "country reports" obviously didn't have the balls to badmouth their own when it came to violations of human rights, but were very quick to point fingers. I'd be surprised if they even looked into it themselves. Unamerican? :rolleyes:

[Psycho4Bud]

I believe they do. It's called freedom of speech. You know, that little gem?

Whoever was in charge of the "country reports" obviously didn't have the balls to badmouth their own when it came to violations of human rights, but were very quick to point fingers. I'd be surprised if they even looked into it themselves. Unamerican? :rolleyes:

Freedom of speach? If they badmouthed their own like that they would find themselves in lock up. Like I said, we're not perfect but we ARE alot better than these fucks on human rights issues.

[Button Basher]

Perhaps you guys are, but i'd have thought you could admit your faults in light of others. Obviously not, so people took it into their own hands. Don't kill the messenger man.

[Psycho4Bud]

Perhaps you guys are, but i'd have thought you could admit your faults in light of others. Obviously not, so people took it into their own hands. Don't kill the messenger man.

China bad mouthing our human rights record is like if Bill Clinton come out denouncing JFK's sexual conduct while in office. The messenger should have a little credibility. Like I said...again...we are FAR from perfect, but China rates lower than whale shit! :D

[Button Basher]

It's not about credibility. It's about a fair report of human rights violations (of which the US is clearly in no shortage of, whether they care to admit it or not).

It's not a playground. You can't point at the kid with the big ears to excuse your fat ass.

[nicholasstanko]

Contrary to the popular belief of idiots, china actually saved america's ass during ww2.

ya see, remember how hitler was dangerously close to defeating allied forces? wellllll....guess which country diverted a considerable part of axis forces devoted to contending with china's human wave strategem?


so ya see kids, ou may not have to like a person...but it might be wise to sho at least some respect ;).


but remember...thats ONLY if you dont want to be an asshole.




all hail ignorance

[Button Basher]

but remember...thats ONLY if you dont want to be an asshole.

That's politics. Whatever your view, however best your intentions, your always an asshole in someone's eyes.

[Psycho4Bud]

Contrary to the popular belief of idiots, china actually saved america's ass during ww2.

ya see, remember how hitler was dangerously close to defeating allied forces? wellllll....guess which country diverted a considerable part of axis forces devoted to contending with china's human wave strategem?


so ya see kids, ou may not have to like a person...but it might be wise to sho at least some respect ;).


but remember...thats ONLY if you dont want to be an asshole.




all hail ignorance

"Contrary to the popular belief of idiots, china actually saved america's ass during ww2"

Show me a link!

During WW2 China was up to their necks in Japaneese:

The Chinese had no time to prepare. The Japanese attacked on July 7, 1937, falsifying an attack at the Marco Polo Bridge. Japanese troops and warships poured into China, attempting to occupy the five Western provinces and create another state like Manchukuo. They occupied Peking and Shanghai. In December 1937 they took Nanjing, the Kuomintang capital. Crowded with refugees, the Nationalists abandoned Nanjing to its fate at the hands of the Japanese. Over a period of six weeks, hundreds of thousands of Chinese were killed, women were raped, and the city sacked in what became known as the "Rape of Nanjing."

Chiang and his followers relocated to Chunking. By 1939, as war started in Europe, China had been fighting a forgotten war for eight years. There were more than 2,000,000 Chinese casualties, widespread disease and famine. The Japanese declared China conquered, but the reality was that neither side could gain an upper hand. Chiang distrusted the Communists, and sent his army against them as often as he attacked the Japanese.
http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/china.htm

All hail ignorance? I love your historical revisions!

[F L E S H]

Just read another one...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050716/ap_on_re_us/rape_racial_tension_2

Rape Spurs Anti-Hispanic Backlash in Ohio By DAN SEWELL, Associated Press Writer
Sat Jul 16, 5:01 PM ET



HAMILTON, Ohio - It started with the spray-painted, misspelled "Rapest" on the house of a Hispanic man accused of sexually assaulting a 9-year-old white girl. Then the house went up in flames in a suspected arson.

ADVERTISEMENT

Confrontations, name-calling and threats against Hispanics followed. Men roamed the streets wearing pillowcases with eye holes, and Ku Klux Klansmen in hoods and robes showed up to pass out pamphlets. There were rumors of assaults and beatings.

Now this small Ohio river city's booming Hispanic population is cowed, the streets in their neighborhoods nearly deserted.

Outside the office of the Living Water Ministry, which two months ago drew hundreds of people to its first Cinco de Mayo festival, there is still a smell of charred wood from the June 21 fire that gutted the house next door and caused damage to the outside of the ministry's office.

"Before, the street would be covered with people, people out all over the place," said Sasha Amen, community outreach coordinator for Living Water. "There's a lot of fear now. People are shutting themselves in their homes."

Hamilton has been a hotbed for Hispanic growth in a state that has lagged behind much of the nation in Hispanic population. The number of Hispanics here jumped fivefold in the 1990s, to 1,566, and is now estimated at 4,000 or more in a city of some 61,000.

For the most part, the immigrants had settled in without much controversy in Hamilton, whose mayor in the 1990s was of Cuban descent. But life here was transformed on June 19, when a 9-year-old Caucasian girl was raped, allegedly by a Hispanic man who has apparently fled the city.

"Yes, there is fear," said Ramona Ramirez, who owns a corner deli-supermarket where she says business is off and her bread delivery man is now afraid to come. "They are attacking all the Hispanics, and it is only one person. We don't know what will happen."

Lupe Galvan, a Mexican-born woman who has been here five years, said some neighbors are talking about moving away.

City and community leaders are trying to heal the wounds, beefing up patrols and trying to calm the community, Mayor Don Ryan said Friday. Ryan said authorities are stressing that the rape was "strictly a random act of violence" and not racially motivated.

"We're continuing to be a melting pot in this country," he said. "Assimilating into our culture is tough; I firmly believe that it will take time."

While the anti-Hispanic backlash has stunned many of the immigrants, some say they've felt racial prejudice here before. The Rev. Eustaquio Recalde, a native of Paraguay, says he was often harassed and ridiculed while working a factory job as the lone Hispanic employee.

"I think it's been around," Recalde said. "This was an opportunity for a few people to express it."

Ezra Escudero, executive director of the Ohio Commission on Hispanic/Latino Affairs in Columbus, says Hamilton is not alone in feeling tension in a state where the Hispanic population has doubled to nearly 280,000 since 1990.

"The challenge for the community is whether the tragedy will bring out the best or the worst in people," he said.

Shelly Jarrett Bromberg, an assistant professor of Spanish and Latin American studies at Miami University in Oxford, has helped organize two community forums since the fire. She called the Hamilton unrest an important moment for local Hispanics, churches, police and public officials.

"I think everyone realizes that we need to have a dialogue ... to make the community feel safe and feel that they have a voice," Bromberg said. "I think there are a lot of people who want to make this work out."

___

On the Net:

Hamilton: http://www.hamilton-city.org/

Ohio Commission on Hispanic/Latino Affairs: http://ochla.ohio.gov/

[Torog]

I was reading at a Chinese news site and found this paper going around. It has hit the German and Russian news sites too.
It is interesting to read what the rest of the world thinks...
We sure do sound terrible. :(


The United States has been releasing annually Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, censuring other countries for their human rights situations, but it has turned a blind eye to serious violations of human rights on its own soil. This double standard on human rights issues cannot but meet with strong rejection and opposition worldwide, leaving the United States more and more isolated in the international community...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-04/03/content_813904.htm
Howdy Blue Cat,

What is it,that you think that me and amsterdam,should be proud of ? We've been going round and round,with both China and Russia,on the issue of human rights and political up-manship,since before I was born,almost 46 years ago..it's the same old,same old,coming from hard-line commies..whose words can rarely,if ever,be trusted.

The 'international community', is almost exclusively anti-American and anti-Jewish and anti-Christian,as well as amoral relativists. They loathe the concept of individual rights and freedom for all. They believe,that if oppression is an aspect of one's culture,that it should be excused,rather than interfere with such a process or state.

Sure,America has it's problems..I ain't gonna deny that..but unlike China,there's hope that real progress can be made,with brutal,hard-line commies...there is no such hope..until they've all been vanquished..one way or another...the same holds true for brutal,fundy islamofascists..whose penalty for drugs,is quite often death or life-long sentences.

Have a good one ....

[F L E S H]

is it me or is it getting really boring takling to Torog? Every post he makes is exactly the same... Hard-line commies, red chinese, russia, islamofascists, anti-American, anti-Jewish, anti-Christian, amoral relativism, individual rights, freedom for all, democracy, oppression......


YAWN

[Torog]

is it me or is it getting really boring takling to Torog? Every post he makes is exactly the same... Hard-line commies, red chinese, russia, islamofascists, anti-American, anti-Jewish, anti-Christian, amoral relativism, individual rights, freedom for all, democracy, oppression......


YAWN
Howdy FLESH,

Lol..yup..I do tend to be repetitive..but repetition is needed for y'all to understand that you need to choose freedom and democracy..rather than taking up the cause of the terrorists,becuase y'all hate Bush and America. It's kinda like potty training,it takes alot of repetition for a kid to finally git it,but it seems that the Left,is still crappin in their pants..and y'all need a dose of repetition,in order to choose freedom and democracy for all..instead of just a few. I hope that someday,y'all can throw away your diapers and grow up..so that we can face the problem of terrorism,together,as adults.

Have a good one !

[F L E S H]

I hope that someday,y'all can throw away your diapers and grow up..so that we can face the problem of terrorism,together,as adults.
That was uncalled for! As far as I know, it's mostly children who repeat the same things over and over again until their parents cave in and give them what they want :D

I definitely hate Bush, I'll never deny that. But I don't hate the US. As a matter of fact, I like the US quite a bit. But I don't need to justify myself to you.

[Torog]

That was uncalled for! As far as I know, it's mostly children who repeat the same things over and over again until their parents cave in and give them what they want :D

I definitely hate Bush, I'll never deny that. But I don't hate the US. As a matter of fact, I like the US quite a bit. But I don't need to justify myself to you.
Howdy FLESH,

I reckon that maybe it was uncalled for,I apologize for that,but I'm a little bit pissed off right now,about a thread in Indoor Growing,and I may have been too harsh..so when will you cave in ? lol

You can hate Bush all ya want,but if don't love America..you best leave ! lol Just kiddin...:)

Have a good one !

[BlueCat]

I hope that someday,y'all can throw away your diapers and grow up..so that we can face the problem of terrorism,together,as adults....

Would that be the adults that lie so they can invade a country or the adults that torture people when they can't get their way? Is it the Adults that want to shoot anyone that is different? Or is it the adults like Rove that make up lies to advance politically?

Given the choice I think I will remain a kid.

[BlueCat]

but if don't love America..you best leave...

Or what You'll shoot? :D :p

[F L E S H]

Howdy FLESH,

I reckon that maybe it was uncalled for,I apologize for that,but I'm a little bit pissed off right now,about a thread in Indoor Growing,and I may have been too harsh..so when will you cave in ? lol

You can hate Bush all ya want,but if don't love America..you best leave ! lol Just kiddin...:)

Have a good one !
I'm already in Montreal... a stone's throw from Vermont... Now that's a cool and laid back state if ever there was one :D

[BlueCat]

Hey Flesh, my son just moved to Montreal. He said it is beautiful. We are going to visit in Oct. I can't wait!

[nicholasstanko]

"Contrary to the popular belief of idiots, china actually saved america's ass during ww2"

Show me a link!

During WW2 China was up to their necks in Japaneese:

The Chinese had no time to prepare. The Japanese attacked on July 7, 1937, falsifying an attack at the Marco Polo Bridge. Japanese troops and warships poured into China, attempting to occupy the five Western provinces and create another state like Manchukuo. They occupied Peking and Shanghai. In December 1937 they took Nanjing, the Kuomintang capital. Crowded with refugees, the Nationalists abandoned Nanjing to its fate at the hands of the Japanese. Over a period of six weeks, hundreds of thousands of Chinese were killed, women were raped, and the city sacked in what became known as the "Rape of Nanjing."

Chiang and his followers relocated to Chunking. By 1939, as war started in Europe, China had been fighting a forgotten war for eight years. There were more than 2,000,000 Chinese casualties, widespread disease and famine. The Japanese declared China conquered, but the reality was that neither side could gain an upper hand. Chiang distrusted the Communists, and sent his army against them as often as he attacked the Japanese.
http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/china.htm

All hail ignorance? I love your historical revisions!



You just pointed out what i was talking about. thanks for posting the link on my behalf.

i said axis forces. japan and germany had an alliance...which means that they were two parts of an original axis power. :p


japan was busy fighting china and the advancing u.s. forces. if japan had been able to secure fighting space in europe then practically most historians would agree the war would have probably been lost.


how's that for ya? how does it feel to know you're government actually wanted an attack to occur...ALLOWED it to occur....sent troops in to clean up their dirty business...and almost lost the war due to arrogant complacency. we all came THIS close to the third reich hitting north america as an administrative power.


all hail irony

[pisshead]

yeah, and don't forget general smedley butler...he was hired by our own government to implement that plan to bring nazi germany here in the 30's...round people up, exterminate them, etc...

he realized what he was a part of, and blew the whistle. check out the mccormick dickstein committee...

of course that plan has continued to go forth...but it's being done very incrementally.

but who really cares. we're all obviously just going to let the government do whatever they want, president after president, as things get worse and worse.

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774.

[potpimp]

Howdy Blue Cat,

What is it,that you think that me and amsterdam,should be proud of ? We've been going round and round,with both China and Russia,on the issue of human rights and political up-manship,since before I was born,almost 46 years ago..it's the same old,same old,coming from hard-line commies..whose words can rarely,if ever,be trusted.



Fuck that i dont trust amerika



The 'international community', is almost exclusively anti-American and anti-Jewish and anti-Christian,as well as amoral relativists. They loathe the concept of individual rights and freedom for all. They believe,that if oppression is an aspect of one's culture,that it should be excused,rather than interfere with such a process or state.




The international communty are your betters. While you are dumb hillbillies they are educated and cultured. You have no freedom, you live in america.

[potpimp]

Howdy FLESH,

Lol..yup..I do tend to be repetitive..but repetition is needed for y'all to understand that you need to choose freedom and democracy..rather than taking up the cause of the terrorists,becuase y'all hate Bush and America. It's kinda like potty training,it takes alot of repetition for a kid to finally git it,but it seems that the Left,is still crappin in their pants..and y'all need a dose of repetition,in order to choose freedom and democracy for all..instead of just a few. I hope that someday,y'all can throw away your diapers and grow up..so that we can face the problem of terrorism,together,as adults.

Have a good one !


You need to repeat things because you are simple and stupid. Like how bush repeats things, like terror and freedom. Its for dumb people like you. Give me your flag so i can wipe my ass with it. You are the terrorist and the only thing amerikkka has to do with freedom is taking it from others.

[nicholasstanko]

You need to repeat things because you are simple and stupid. Like how bush repeats things, like terror and freedom. Its for dumb people like you. Give me your flag so i can wipe my ass with it. You are the terrorist and the only thing amerikkka has to do with freedom is taking it from others.

quite true.


what a strange world we live in. politicians dont make any sense at all but yet...some guy with a fucking mime as his avatar manages to put things in perspective.

a goddamn mime...whoda thought



all hail unforseen enlightenment

[Torog]

Howdy Blue Cat,

You state:" Given the choice I think I will remain a kid. "

I expected you to make that choice..I voted for Bush, in 2000,so that there would an adult in the White House,and not a juvenile that was giitin himself into sexual situations,with an intern young enough to be his daughter,while he was on the phone to a field commander in Bosnia.

I voted for Bush in 2004,because while the war on terror rages,we need adults in the White House who will hold the terrorists and the countries that harbor and export them,accountable..and be willing to use any means to bring them to justice or stop em dead in their tracks..and not a child,who will try and beg his way out of trouble.

Have a good one !

[NowhereMan]

but if don't love America..you best leave...

Or what You'll shoot? :D :p
well yea
if u try anything funny in fact i will
and not shy about it
america is by no means perfect
but it is the best place you have for a chance at freedom
so smoke on that
you dont want to live here
dont

move to china see how it is there

[F L E S H]

well yea
if u try anything funny in fact i will
and not shy about it
america is by no means perfect
but it is the best place you have for a chance at freedom
so smoke on that
you dont want to live here
dont

move to china see how it is there
Freedom for all!!! But if don't like it, we'll shoot ya! :rolleyes:

[BlueCat]

You guys are so trained. If someone even comments on leaving this country you take up arms. I was going to teach in China a few years ago for a 6 month sabbatical. I am reading about the country that is soon to be at the top of the economic food chain. While I like the Chinese culture I am still worried and have other issues, So you guys take this as an opportunity to wave your flag and talk about a blow job again. How lame is that? Who is the one claiming to be adult again? Grow up and open your eyes.
A few years ago we wanted nothing to do with China because of their communist beliefs and their human right violations. Now we have almost as many human right violations and we are selling them whatever they want.

You guys think questioning the government is wrong. Don't chastise me because you don't know your history. Instead of waving your flag and posturing why don't you prove me wrong? I would love that, I want to be wrong. I love my country, but I love its people and not the losers in charge.

They have no interest in helping anyone. We are being used to fill their pockets.
You prove to me our government did not sell arms to the contras. Prove to me our government was not involved in specifically the CIA's overthrow of democratic governments in Guatemala, Brazil, Chile, Guyana, Iran, Indonesia and Congo.

Maybe you can explain Venezuela? Do you know the politics of what is happening there?

Prove the CIA's did not overthrow Iraq's government in 60's and install Saddam.

How about this one?

The CIA training and support of death squads and repressive secret police in Iran, Indonesia, El Salvador, Chile, Guatemala and Vietnam.

All of this so they can make money selling weapons. The very weapons that more often than not kill American soldiers.
Some news channel just did a story about a Bosnian weapons buyer that came over here and bought 100s of 50 mm guns with armor piercing bullets and took them on a plane back home for God's sake.

Instead of all your flag waving bullshit and catch phases PROVE ME WRONG.

If you want to blindly follow some rich assholes while they rape this country and the rest of the world and call it patriotism or Christianity you go ahead.
I will be able to say I did not follow them. I am proud of this. I know there are a hell of a lot of AMERICANS that think just like me so get use to it.

You are so close minded you think because I question and watch the government I am a terrible person. I think you are so illiterate that you blindly follow people you really know nothing about, like those star struck idiots that follow celebrities you think the American Government does no wrong. You do whatever you are told no questions asked.

Yes you are right. You voted for a man that has allowed China to buy our country and large amounts of American Treasury bonds and he has lied to start a war so that our attention is averted. This is what I believe so prove that I am wrong.

You voted for a man that has allowed a country that still reads the communist manifesto to walk in and buy our prize technologies.
You voted for a man that is ignoring the security risks in so much as he even hires a woman with direct family ties to communist leaders and he is ignoring trade secret theft because he and his cronies are making money from it.

Maybe you should read the communist manifesto you could need it soon.

http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Mao/Chairman-Mao-quotes.html

YES, You voted for a man that has destroyed our creditability in the world and you are so narrow minded you don't see the harm in that.

The leaders of our country are liars and they are getting rich like they always have through war, and arms sells and they are standing on the backs of the young, the old and the poor to do it. If you want to continue the charade you go ahead but don't attack my judgment without Proof that I am wrong.

Keep swallowing the green pill,
I choose the red one.

[nicholasstanko]

Howdy Blue Cat,

You state:" Given the choice I think I will remain a kid. "

I expected you to make that choice..I voted for Bush, in 2000,so that there would an adult in the White House,and not a juvenile that was giitin himself into sexual situations,with an intern young enough to be his daughter,while he was on the phone to a field commander in Bosnia.

I voted for Bush in 2004,because while the war on terror rages,we need adults in the White House who will hold the terrorists and the countries that harbor and export them,accountable..and be willing to use any means to bring them to justice or stop em dead in their tracks..and not a child,who will try and beg his way out of trouble.

Have a good one !


An adult that cant even form coherent sentences!?!? an adult that needs playtime by spending 40% of his presidency on VACATION!?!

an adult that lies and doesnt assume responsibility for the failure of his administration on 9/11?

an adult thats so responsible with money social security is fucked.


an adult that lives up to his promises of not tolerating leaks in his office by NOT FIRING A PERSON HE PROMISED TO FIRE?


i could go on and on, but torog, if youre going to say you voted for an adult that proved to be less than so not once but TWICE....then you have no right to talk about a guy getting a blow job. if i remember correctly...clintons approval is FARRRRRR higher than bush's.


but who gives a fuck? clinton was an asshole too. fuckin democrats.




all hail imaginary choice

[nicholasstanko]

You guys are so trained. If someone even comments on leaving this country you take up arms. I was going to teach in China a few years ago for a 6 month sabbatical. I am reading about the country that is soon to be at the top of the economic food chain. While I like the Chinese culture I am still worried and have other issues, So you guys take this as an opportunity to wave your flag and talk about a blow job again. How lame is that? Who is the one claiming to be adult again? Grow up and open your eyes.
A few years ago we wanted nothing to do with China because of their communist beliefs and their human right violations. Now we have almost as many human right violations and we are selling them whatever they want.

You guys think questioning the government is wrong. Don't chastise me because you don't know your history. Instead of waving your flag and posturing why don't you prove me wrong? I would love that, I want to be wrong. I love my country, but I love its people and not the losers in charge.

They have no interest in helping anyone. We are being used to fill their pockets.
You prove to me our government did not sell arms to the contras. Prove to me our government was not involved in specifically the CIA's overthrow of democratic governments in Guatemala, Brazil, Chile, Guyana, Iran, Indonesia and Congo.

Maybe you can explain Venezuela? Do you know the politics of what is happening there?

Prove the CIA's did not overthrow Iraq's government in 60's and install Saddam.

How about this one?

The CIA training and support of death squads and repressive secret police in Iran, Indonesia, El Salvador, Chile, Guatemala and Vietnam.

All of this so they can make money selling weapons. The very weapons that more often than not kill American soldiers.
Some news channel just did a story about a Bosnian weapons buyer that came over here and bought 100s of 50 mm guns with armor piercing bullets and took them on a plane back home for God's sake.

Instead of all your flag waving bullshit and catch phases PROVE ME WRONG.

If you want to blindly follow some rich assholes while they rape this country and the rest of the world and call it patriotism or Christianity you go ahead.
I will be able to say I did not follow them. I am proud of this. I know there are a hell of a lot of AMERICANS that think just like me so get use to it.

You are so close minded you think because I question and watch the government I am a terrible person. I think you are so illiterate that you blindly follow people you really know nothing about, like those star struck idiots that follow celebrities you think the American Government does no wrong. You do whatever you are told no questions asked.

Yes you are right. You voted for a man that has allowed China to buy our country and large amounts of American Treasury bonds and he has lied to start a war so that our attention is averted. This is what I believe so prove that I am wrong.

You voted for a man that has allowed a country that still reads the communist manifesto to walk in and buy our prize technologies.
You voted for a man that is ignoring the security risks in so much as he even hires a woman with direct family ties to communist leaders and he is ignoring trade secret theft because he and his cronies are making money from it.

Maybe you should read the communist manifesto you could need it soon.

http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Mao/Chairman-Mao-quotes.html

YES, You voted for a man that has destroyed our creditability in the world and you are so narrow minded you don't see the harm in that.

The leaders of our country are liars and they are getting rich like they always have through war, and arms sells and they are standing on the backs of the young, the old and the poor to do it. If you want to continue the charade you go ahead but don't attack my judgment without Proof that I am wrong.

Keep swallowing the green pill,
I choose the red one.


yeh fuck you guys! lol. but seriously :mad: i lived in the bahamas for a few years.

the bahamas gets ALOT of illegal immigrants mostly from haiti and jamaica trying to escape their country because theirs has been fucked up.

im mentioning this because you mention overthrow of democracy. the haitian president aristide was outted and guess what happened? riots and even more devestation. america came, fucked up the country and left without so much as a word and the people still suffer.

all the while they came in droves to nassau and as a result the wages their dropped.

i was just pointing out what consequences there are to letting some guy do whatever he wants. he isnt just fucking up america...he's fucking up smaller countries that cant do ANYTHING about it. so while you guys sit there and cheer bush on, there are people being killed and left homeless because of the thoughtless and seemingly harmless actions of a few.


all hail brutal reality

[BlueCat]

Or how about the adults that OUT a CIA agent when things aren't going their way or how about the liars that under oath knew nothing about said CIA agent?
It seems it was a serious enought issue that Bush wanted to fire whomever was responsible....Hmmmm well what happened? Have the ADULTS been caught in another lie? :rolleyes:

[nicholasstanko]

Or how about the adults that OUT a CIA agent when things aren't going their way or how about the liars that under oath knew nothing about said CIA agent?
It seems it was a serious enought issue that Bush wanted to fire whomever was responsible....Hmmmm well what happened? Have the ADULTS been caught in another lie? :rolleyes:

get ready...torog will be back any minute to convince us that radical freedom-hating muslims mustve corrupted bush with their evil ways of thinking.


all hail humor in the face of doom

[Fengzi]

get ready...torog will be back any minute to convince us that radical freedom-hating muslims mustve corrupted bush with their evil ways of thinking.


all hail humor in the face of doom
No Nicholass, Toreg will try to convince us that freedom-hating muslims have currupted us with their evil thinking. Don't you know that Bush can do know wrong??

[BlueCat]

Almost all countries have a history of US invasion first military coup then economic set up, it is how the hand full of rich in this country accumulate wealth...
Take Haiti for instance...look at the time line

In 1791, led by Toussaint L'Ouverture, Haiti's slaves rebelled, winning independence from the French. The U. S. fearing the example to its own slave population, refused to recognize Haiti until 1862, imposing an economic embargo instead, not lifted until 1869.

U. S. Marines invaded Haiti in 1915; when the National Assembly refused to approve a U. S.-written constitution permitting foreigners to own property in their country!!!

The U. S. considered the regime of Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier a bulwark against Communism and supported it generously...remember this creep!? He was a murderer.

The CIA was "involved in a range of support for a range of candidates" according to one intelligence official. This involvement was authorized by President Reagan and the National Security Council.

How about the US involvement lately?
U. S. Support for Anti-Aristide Coup, 1991-1994?

the CIA was financing and training all the important elements of the new military regime, and a Haitian official who supported the coup has reported that US intelligence officers were presenta t military headquarters as the coup was taking place

Under US instruction there was torture and murder in Haiti then the US goes in and takes files to save their own ass.

U. S. military forces in Haiti seized 60,000 pages of documents belonging to death squad, FRAPH, and 100,000 pages from the headquarters of the Haitian army, the FADH. The materials consisted of reports, registers and a variety of written files, as well as video-cassettes, audio-cassettes and photographs of torture sessions....Since then, representatives of the Haitian government have been requesting the return of the documents which are believed to contain invaluable and definitive evidence of human rights violations under the military regime. This evidence could be crucial to the legal process against the murderers and torturers who remain unpunished and at large in Haiti.

They don't want them returned because they are involved

[nicholasstanko]

they'd never do that. i dont need to form an arguement in the cia's defense, i dont need to research to see if it's true.

they'd never do that. isnt that enough to debate?



all hail cynicism

[NowhereMan]

You guys are so trained. If someone even comments on leaving this country you take up arms. I was going to teach in China a few years ago for a 6 month sabbatical. I am reading about the country that is soon to be at the top of the economic food chain. While I like the Chinese culture I am still worried and have other issues, So you guys take this as an opportunity to wave your flag and talk about a blow job again. How lame is that? Who is the one claiming to be adult again? Grow up and open your eyes.
A few years ago we wanted nothing to do with China because of their communist beliefs and their human right violations. Now we have almost as many human right violations and we are selling them whatever they want.

You guys think questioning the government is wrong. Don't chastise me because you don't know your history. Instead of waving your flag and posturing why don't you prove me wrong? I would love that, I want to be wrong. I love my country, but I love its people and not the losers in charge.

They have no interest in helping anyone. We are being used to fill their pockets.
You prove to me our government did not sell arms to the contras. Prove to me our government was not involved in specifically the CIA's overthrow of democratic governments in Guatemala, Brazil, Chile, Guyana, Iran, Indonesia and Congo.

Maybe you can explain Venezuela? Do you know the politics of what is happening there?

Prove the CIA's did not overthrow Iraq's government in 60's and install Saddam.

How about this one?

The CIA training and support of death squads and repressive secret police in Iran, Indonesia, El Salvador, Chile, Guatemala and Vietnam.

All of this so they can make money selling weapons. The very weapons that more often than not kill American soldiers.
Some news channel just did a story about a Bosnian weapons buyer that came over here and bought 100s of 50 mm guns with armor piercing bullets and took them on a plane back home for God's sake.

Instead of all your flag waving bullshit and catch phases PROVE ME WRONG.

If you want to blindly follow some rich assholes while they rape this country and the rest of the world and call it patriotism or Christianity you go ahead.
I will be able to say I did not follow them. I am proud of this. I know there are a hell of a lot of AMERICANS that think just like me so get use to it.

You are so close minded you think because I question and watch the government I am a terrible person. I think you are so illiterate that you blindly follow people you really know nothing about, like those star struck idiots that follow celebrities you think the American Government does no wrong. You do whatever you are told no questions asked.

Yes you are right. You voted for a man that has allowed China to buy our country and large amounts of American Treasury bonds and he has lied to start a war so that our attention is averted. This is what I believe so prove that I am wrong.

You voted for a man that has allowed a country that still reads the communist manifesto to walk in and buy our prize technologies.
You voted for a man that is ignoring the security risks in so much as he even hires a woman with direct family ties to communist leaders and he is ignoring trade secret theft because he and his cronies are making money from it.

Maybe you should read the communist manifesto you could need it soon.

http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Mao/Chairman-Mao-quotes.html

YES, You voted for a man that has destroyed our creditability in the world and you are so narrow minded you don't see the harm in that.

The leaders of our country are liars and they are getting rich like they always have through war, and arms sells and they are standing on the backs of the young, the old and the poor to do it. If you want to continue the charade you go ahead but don't attack my judgment without Proof that I am wrong.

Keep swallowing the green pill,
I choose the red one.

ive questions for almighty you
can a nation not make a mistake?
and cannot a nation try to correct a mistake,
for example
helped saddam foolishly once.
then kicked his regime over later ?

i mean dont you supposed to FIX something if you break it ?

could that be what is going on ?
or has your blinded by hatred anti usa anything mind closed up?

please keep it simple its too early for complicated readings
peace

[pisshead]

we've *mistakenly* helped lots of dictators achieve power and hold it; mao, hitler, stalin, saddam, bin laden was our pal, the list goes on and on and on and on...at what point does it stop being a mistake?

it seems more likely to me that we're using these people for some other purpose (world empire maybe, imf/world bank control of the world), and then using some fake theater to demonize them in our media.


"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery."
--Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774

[amsterdam]

never will it be a mistake,when your dealing with an evil empire like the failed soviet union it makes perfect sense to aid smaller problems when dealing with a global problem like communism WAS.

[pisshead]

we built up and aided that evil empire the soviet union as well. this is a good book for anyone who's interested. the rockefeller file by gary allen, published in the 70's.

i can't remember if it's this book, or another gary allen book, where he talks about drills of the pentagon being hit with a jumbo jet that took place in the early 70's.

http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=4495&highlight=rockefeller+file

[F L E S H]

never will it be a mistake,when your dealing with an evil empire like the failed soviet union it makes perfect sense to aid smaller problems when dealing with a global problem like communism WAS.
You blind blind blind man.

If communism ever was a global problem in the 50s and 60s, it's entirely the US's fault. Back then, the concept of empire and colonies was still quite valid, and the US wanted an empire of its own. What the most logical choice? Central/South America of course. The US installed and supported a series of right-wing dictators who shared their wealth witha select few elite, while 90% of the population died of hunger. It happened in many many nations.

What choice did the starving people have? they turn to communism, whose theory promises wealth and health for all. If you've been repressed and oppressed for generations, wouldn't that sound nice to you? That's why communism became a problem right on the US's doorstep, that's why Cuba happened, that's why civil wars raged for decades in some small countries... That's why Saddam was in power, Pinochet, Batista (pre Castro), and all those other right-wing dictators you all seem to like so much.

Learn to observe and think for yourself, I know it's hard.... :rolleyes:

[amsterdam]

everything is our fault dont you know.

communism=failure

democracy+capitalism=the youngest,richest,most powerful nation on earth

[pisshead]

communism is just an excuse to consolidate peoples' wealth into the hands of world banks and leaders and rich, established families. it works just as well as fascism. they work together.

i agree with almost all of what you said...but both sides are controlled by the same people...both the 'left' and the 'right'...

if people are serious enough to want a world empire, than they're going to have controlled opposition to co-opt the population into thinking they have an escape from the current tyranny, right?

they get people to run right back into their hands.

[pisshead]

multiple trillions of dollars of debt and hundreds of billions of dollars in trade deficits=wealth?

wow, maybe i should get a thousand credit cards and max them all out so i can get rich?

you'd be correct if it wasn't for the unconstitutional federal reserve. as soon as that took over our money supply, it was downhill.

[pisshead]

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802) ; later published in The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill (1809)
wow, jefferson's sounding like a conspiracy theorist. how dare him speak of our godlike banks like that. maybe he should have just left the country if he hated it so much!

[amsterdam]

for the record,in no way do i think your anti-american.

[BlueCat]

ive questions for almighty you
can a nation not make a mistake?
and cannot a nation try to correct a mistake,
for example
helped saddam foolishly once.
then kicked his regime over later ?

i mean dont you supposed to FIX something if you break it ?

could that be what is going on ?
or has your blinded by hatred anti usa anything mind closed up?

please keep it simple its too early for complicated readings
peace
__________________

Well I don't know where you got the Almighty comment from

Sure everyone makes mistakes but the first part of healing is admitting you are wrong. The US has never admitted to any wrong doing. I am sick of being lied too. The USA has been involved in overthrowing country after country that already had Democratic governments. They put puppets in charge so that they can make money. It does not matter that the puppet they put in charge is barbaric as long as the cash flows. As long as they can sell their weapons and introduce corporate America to the rest of the world want it or not.

why should I think Iraq is any different or that it is for Humanitarian reasons? You would have to be a complete fool to believe that.

I want them to tell the truth... I am not blinded by hatred, whom do I hate? Our government is experiencing something new, the information age it makes the world so much smaller. They can't cover their tracks as well now.
There's is nothing wrong with holding them accountable and asking to be told the truth. Do you really think they are being honest?

[highinspain]

Hi BlueCat,

I agree with you, I am a us citizen and I left three years ago to live in a now socialist left wing government, its great no more police state for me,
Hang in there we might be able to change the ignorant masses one at a time.
Peace

[BlueCat]

Hello HIS,

thanks for the support. :D :D :D :D

So tell me about Spain's government. What are the differences?

[highinspain]

Hi Bluecat,
The government here is now socialist, not really much different from the previous government. They were brought into power by the promise to remove the troops from Iraq and some other social changes. They have recently legalized gay marriage its kinda cool, they are continuing to fix the roads and minor things, but you would not really notice a change from before. The spanish are great to live with, no one bothers you, mutual respect i guess, drug policies are rarely enforced, speed limits are never enforced, time away from your job is held as a priority, at least 30 days a year if not more, the economy is bumbing along as allways it is kind of what the us would be if they would stop their rhetoric about trying to save the world. Overall I say its a great place to live and let live. I will send more when i think of it time zones differences its time for a siesta...........

Peace for now