Canada Passes Same Sex Marriage

[XTC]

By BETH DUFF-BROWN, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 47 minutes ago



TORONTO - Canada's House of Commons passed landmark legislation Tuesday to legalize gay marriage, granting same-sex couples legal rights equal to those in traditional unions between a man and a woman.

ADVERTISEMENT


The bill passed as expected, despite opposition from Conservatives and religious leaders. The legislation drafted by Prime Minister Paul Martin's minority Liberal Party government was also expected to easily pass the Senate and become federal law by the end of July.

The Netherlands and Belgium are the only other two nations that allow gay marriage nationwide.

Some of Martin's Liberal lawmakers voted against the bill and a Cabinet minister resigned Tuesday over the legislation. But enough allies rallied to support the bill that has been debated for months, voting 158 to 133 to approve it.

Martin praised Tuesday's vote as a necessary step for human rights.

"We are a nation of minorities," Martin said. "And in a nation of minorities, it is important that you don't cherry-pick rights."

There are an estimated 34,000 gay and lesbian couples in Canada, according to government statistics. Before the measure passed, gay marriage was legal in seven provinces.

Alex Munter, national spokesman for Canadians for Equal Marriage, which has led the debate in favor of the law, was triumphant after the vote: "The genius of Canada, almost unparalleled in the world, is built on shared identity, out of respect for each other."

Martin, a Roman Catholic, has said that despite anyone's personal beliefs, all Canadians should be granted the same rights to marriage.

Churches have expressed concern that their clergy would be compelled by law to perform same-sex ceremonies, with couples taking them to court or human rights tribunals if refused. The legislation, however, states that the bill only covers civil unions, not religious ones, and no clergy would be forced to perform same-sex ceremonies unless they choose to do so.

The Roman Catholic Church, the predominant Christian denomination in Canada, has vigorously opposed the legislation, saying that it would harm children in particular.

Charles McVety, a spokesman for Defend Marriage Canada and president of Canada Christian College, called the vote an "onerous breach of trust and the deconstruction of so much that is dear to our hearts."

Flanked by clergymen, McVety vowed his group would work to vote out lawmakers who supported the legislation in the next general elections.

"This is the beginning of the formal fight against the redefinition of marriage," McVety said. "We will, in the next election, be able to correct this incredible democratic deficit before us today."

The debate in Canada began in December, when the Supreme Court ruled that passage of same-sex legislation would not violate the constitution.

According to most polls, a majority of Canadians supports the right for gays and lesbians to marry. In the United States, gay marriage is opposed by a majority of Americans, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll taken in November, shortly after constitutional amendments in 11 states to ban same-sex marriage were approved.

Massachusetts is the only state that allows gay marriages; Vermont and Connecticut have approved same-sex civil unions.

Roberta Sklar, spokeswoman for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in Washington, D.C., said same-sex American couples applaud Canadians.

"We know that it has been somewhat contentious in Canada, but at the same time the Canadians have largely approached this issue in a rational and democratic way and are providing a very positive model for the rest of the world," Sklar said.

Though hundreds of foreigners have come to Canada to seek civil ceremonies since gay marriages were first allowed in Ontario and British Columbia in 2003, not all countries or states recognize the unions. While a slew of Israeli men were married in Toronto City Hall earlier this year, for example, the Israeli Interior Ministry does not recognize those unions.

In the United States, the federal government does not recognize same-sex marriage and most states refuse to acknowledge marriage certificates from gay and lesbian couples, regardless of where they wed.

___

On the Net:

Canadians for Equal marriage: http://www.equal-marriage.ca

Defend Marriage Canada: http://www.defendmarriagecanada.org


It's about time some nations get with the program! Maybe America can learn something from their neighbors to the North.

[pisshead]

oh my god!!! people are going to start marrying their hamsters and parrots now!!!

we can't have this!

now we all just have to realize that marriage is something the government has nothing to do with in the first place...

[Stedric]

About time.

[ermitonto]

Excellent news! Let us hope that this trend spreads all over the globe and institutionalized homophobia is abolished once and for all.

[Stedric]

Excellent news! Let us hope that this trend spreads all over the globe and institutionalized homophobia is abolished once and for all.
We can hope, and we'll keep fighting for it, but I doubt homophobia can be abolished completely. This is a step.

[ermitonto]

Yes, you're right, there will always be ignorant people who think gays are inferior, but we can at least try to stop the governments from falling for it (what I meant by institutionalized homophobia).

[Torog]

Yes, you're right, there will always be ignorant people who think gays are inferior, but we can at least try to stop the governments from falling for it (what I meant by institutionalized homophobia).
Howdy ermitonto,

I don't think gays are inferior,but I do think that the compulsion to have sex with the same sex,is dysfunctional and defective,because humanity reproduces heterosexually..not homosexually.

You should be happy that Spain has also passed gay marriage just today or yesterday..the march towards Sodom and Gomorrah..continues...

Have a good one....

[harmonicminor]

well at least its good for population controll

[Fengzi]

..the march towards Sodom and Gomorrah..continues...

....

Some of the stuff Torog says used to piss me off. Now I just find him laughable. Am I the only one who thinks this guy would be a great character on SNL?

[ermitonto]

Howdy ermitonto,

I don't think gays are inferior,but I do think that the compulsion to have sex with the same sex,is dysfunctional and defective,because humanity reproduces heterosexually..not homosexually.

You should be happy that Spain has also passed gay marriage just today or yesterday..the march towards Sodom and Gomorrah..continues...

Have a good one....

The idea that the only sexual acts that produce more humans are the only moral ones is ludicrous. Is oral sex immoral? Are all the animal species that engage in homosexuality immoral? Homosexuality does not pose a threat to society. In fact, I can't see why we would want to make everybody engage only in the kind of sex that can make more people with this overpopulation crisis going on. I also can't see any reason to deny homosexuals the right to marriage, or to deny any group of people any right for that matter, unless you somehow view them as inferior.

The argument that homosexuality can't make more people, therefore it is immoral, is lost on me.

And using the Bible to discredit homosexuality isn't going to convince me either. Homophobes often like to quote the passage that says a man should not lay with another man or whatever, but then they completely ignore the next chapter in which it is said we should stone disobedient sons to death.

[Stedric]

Homosexuality is not now nor has ever been exclusively about sex. Even if it were, sex is not only for reproduction either. If you disagree then please kindly explain the clitoris, which has no other known function then to induce pleasure/orgasms.

[Torog]

Some of the stuff Torog says used to piss me off. Now I just find him laughable. Am I the only one who thinks this guy would be a great character on SNL?
Howdy Fengzi,

Dang..yer right...I could be the token,ignorant,redneck hick from fly-over country ! I'm certain,that more leftists would tune in and their ratings would soar ! Maybe I should git a manager for my new career ?

Have a good one !

[Torog]

Homosexuality is not now nor has ever been exclusively about sex. Even if it were, sex is not only for reproduction either. If you disagree then please kindly explain the clitoris, which has no other known function then to induce pleasure/orgasms.
Howdy Stedric,

In my opinion,homosexuality is almost exclusively about sex,because it's basically all about dysfunctional urges,it is dysfunctional for humans to engage in homosexual acts..because we don't reproduce that way.

As for the clitoris,it's meant to cause muscular contractions in response to pleasure,in order to facilitate the success of fertilization..for the man,the response to pleasure,is ejaculation and the 2 moments are meant to work together,for optimal success.

In my opinion,marriage will always be for heterosexuals and is the reason for it's being..gays can join together in a civil union and stop trying to destroy the meaning and value,of marriage.

The push for gay marriage,is also a push to banish all mention of God,Christianity and Judaism..and is a big part of the agenda of the Left,in an on-going Culture war.

Have a good one....

[pisshead]

you're pretty leftist yourself torog, at least you worship our current socialist/liberal president...george bush is clinton on steroids.

how about CAFTA torog? pretty darn conservative, ain't it? do you support the end of our borders and sovereignty like george bush does?

[XTC]

Some of the stuff Torog says used to piss me off. Now I just find him laughable. Am I the only one who thinks this guy would be a great character on SNL?


lol, Him and Al Franken would be a force to reckon with in comedy.

[weirdo79]

(I was going to quote a bunch of science and facts as well as "contradictions" of the bible but decided it was too much effort and not as amusing as someone else has already done most of that :( ).

We've influenced Torog's views before it can happen again ;) , Just keep plugging away at him, he can't deny facts forever :).

Have a good one Torog , You always make me smile (sometimes in a good way sometimes in a bad but always a smile :) )

P.S. Torog I can just picture a room full of leftists as you say plotting the downfall of christianity very machiavellian I must say. I think you gotta smoke more schwag your stuff is too good your getting paro bud ;)

P.P.S. (I'm actually the only guy in the room plotting the downfall of christianity the rest are just stuffed animals ;), voices provided by myself as well of course).

[Torog]

you're pretty leftist yourself torog, at least you worship our current socialist/liberal president...george bush is clinton on steroids.

how about CAFTA torog? pretty darn conservative, ain't it? do you support the end of our borders and sovereignty like george bush does?
Howdy pisshead,

You ask:"do you support the end of our borders and sovereignty like george bush does ? "

No sir..I don't support that..in fact,I want Bush to continue to be embarrassed over the border issue..and I will never swear allegiance to any other country than America.

Have a good one ...

[Torog]

(I was going to quote a bunch of science and facts as well as "contradictions" of the bible but decided it was too much effort and not as amusing as someone else has already done most of that :( ).

We've influenced Torog's views before it can happen again ;) , Just keep plugging away at him, he can't deny facts forever :).

Have a good one Torog , You always make me smile (sometimes in a good way sometimes in a bad but always a smile :) )

P.S. Torog I can just picture a room full of leftists as you say plotting the downfall of christianity very machiavellian I must say. I think you gotta smoke more schwag your stuff is too good your getting paro bud ;)

P.P.S. (I'm actually the only guy in the room plotting the downfall of christianity the rest are just stuffed animals ;), voices provided by myself as well of course).
Howdy weirdo79,

Arrrggghhh !!!!

Have a good one....

(LoL) :D

[NowhereMan]

The idea that the only sexual acts that produce more humans are the only moral ones is ludicrous. Is oral sex immoral? Are all the animal species that engage in homosexuality immoral? Homosexuality does not pose a threat to society. In fact, I can't see why we would want to make everybody engage only in the kind of sex that can make more people with this overpopulation crisis going on. I also can't see any reason to deny homosexuals the right to marriage, or to deny any group of people any right for that matter, unless you somehow view them as inferior.

The argument that homosexuality can't make more people, therefore it is immoral, is lost on me.

And using the Bible to discredit homosexuality isn't going to convince me either. Homophobes often like to quote the passage that says a man should not lay with another man or whatever, but then they completely ignore the next chapter in which it is said we should stone disobedient sons to death.

my 2 cents could not stay out of this after reading this

Is oral sex immoral?
probubly

Are all the animal species that engage in homosexuality immoral?

animal is the key word,brother on mother,ect ect so YES to that one.

Homosexuality does not pose a threat to society
uh now i ask how the hell do you know?oh yea excuse me yes GOD i hear your OPINION and we shall see wont we
so i just dont dont believe you know if it will or not, holy-father
ill say im sorry saturday when i give my 10% if thats alright with you but so far your book has no solid end and man cant comprehend the thee's


my piont is here you say its no threat,it may not be but
you cant know that
your just a human GUESSING
i can guess it can hurt mankind just like you can guess it dont,

but you type of people thinks it all ok ,people can do about anything for the pleasure of it,and becuase SO many do ya thinks it got to be ok to do
some things man should not do ,to another man,
being married to one is just one of them,lol
its man and wife,
a man cant be a wife,
so wtf it would be funny if not so sad.
i dont care what canada does,in fact im glad THEY did,
the usa hardly takes canada's lead ya know.
peace

[bruiser]

Were all fucked? the scriptures state clearly this would happen,truly the end is right around the corner...except christ now before it's too late.

[bruiser]

accept christ

[makor01]

get a fucking clue bruiser cummon you cant be that blinded by religion.

[bruiser]

get a fucking clue bruiser cummon you cant be that blinded by religion.

Actually my eye's are wide open!...............I was blind but now I see...

[ermitonto]

Were all fucked? the scriptures state clearly this would happen,truly the end is right around the corner...except christ now before it's too late.
Right, and Nostradamus's poems state clearly that the world was going to end in 1999. You can't just blindly trust ancient texts that don't have any evidence to back them up.

[ermitonto]

my 2 cents could not stay out of this after reading this

Is oral sex immoral?
probubly
blah blah blah

My two cents is, stay the fuck out of other people's bedrooms. If you want to believe in bigoted nonsense, fine, but you don't have the right to dictate how other people should live their lives.

[makor01]

My two cents is, stay the fuck out of other people's bedrooms. If you want to believe in bigoted nonsense, fine, but you don't have the right to dictate how other people should live their lives.


Couldnt of said it better myself.

And as for bruisers eyes being wide open, you may wanna check that again bro...the only thing blind faith will lead you to is a collision with a wall.

[bruiser]

Couldnt of said it better myself.

And as for bruisers eyes being wide open, you may wanna check that again bro...the only thing blind faith will lead you to is a collision with a wall.

hey man didn't mean to turn it into a religouse debate!,after all just put my 2 cents in their,just I was the only one who got shit on for my comments,but thats alright.......see what happens in the next few years,and remember,,, it is I who you will think about.....either way ya got dead faith and I atleast have faith........one day friend I will be one of those people who said I told you so.........obviouse I am talking to the dead so I will move right along....and stand with the living.....by the way I aint judging no one dudes! penis in a mans ass aint natural......you pigs...lol

[Stedric]

hey man didn't mean to turn it into a religouse debate!,after all just put my 2 cents in their,just I was the only one who got shit on for my comments,but thats alright.......see what happens in the next few years,and remember,,, it is I who you will think about.....either way ya got dead faith and I atleast have faith........one day friend I will be one of those people who said I told you so.........obviouse I am talking to the dead so I will move right along....and stand with the living.....by the way I aint judging no one dudes! penis in a mans ass aint natural......you pigs...lol
Bruiser, I'm curious...is heaven full of people like you? With similar opinions and biases?

Wow, that sure sounds like hell to me.

[ermitonto]

Yeah, if the universe really operates according to your "faith" (defined by Websters as "firm belief in something for which there is no proof"), I'd rather be in Hell with all the smart people.

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. â?? Mark Twain

[Psycho4Bud]

I'd rather be in Hell with all the smart people.

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. â?? Mark Twain

Don't say that! My dad always said that hell is where the tops of the bottles and the bottoms of the girls are all corked up. I'll take heaven! :D

[amsterdam]

My two cents is, stay the fuck out of other people's bedrooms. If you want to believe in bigoted nonsense, fine, but you don't have the right to dictate how other people should live their lives.


tell the soon to be fixed supreme court that,unelected activists.

[ermitonto]

Fuck the Supreme Court. I couldn't care less what they think. I'm planning on moving to the Netherlands as soon as I can, where bigots aren't in power and nobody has rights taken from them simply because of the gender of the person they choose to love.

[amsterdam]

well you better have great job skills or a direct family roots that are dutch because if you dont,you are not going to live in amsterdam my friend.wishfull thinking.

at the moment the Dutch government is throwing out alot of muslim finatics.

[Psycho4Bud]

the Dutch government is throwing out alot of muslim finatics.

So much for pissant moving to Amsterdam! :D

[amsterdam]

or out of mommies basement.

[Stedric]

*yawn* Christ you bigots are all the same. How boring.

[bruiser]

Do you really think I am dumb? out of 6 billion people on the planet,5 billion of them believe in God! atheist are the minority,just like the gay community,look don't tell me that this is good for the country!,were I am a christian with my 3 kids in public school,and we just ousted a homesexual female who goes around to all the schools teaching it's o'k to be gay,now mind you she ventured first only into the high schools,but now she is trying to come into the schools and speak will grade 8 and 6 and 4,she has a right to be gay but don't push your crap on me or my kids,also they just scrapped a book a couple of years back but now if gay marriage go's ahead throughout canada,the book will once again find it's demonic head back in our schools,the book was called it's o'k to have 2 mommys,also another book that ended up in alot of canadian schools was called edward and the prince,where it illustates a boy falling in love with a prince all done in cartoon form,it illustrates as well at the end of the book the prince and the boy come together and kiss...what the fuck?????? hey if ya want to be gay thats fine but don't push it on us.......we as parents can stop alot of it comming into the school,but once the gay marriage gets the o'k look out,every school and educational system will be drenched with homosexuality,not just educating but going further and making it a altertive life style like putting on a different pair of socks for example paul martin says this won't effect the church's or religions of our great nation,nor will people of faith be tied up in any of it,how could that be????..........for example paul says,no church will have to marry homeosexuals,butI say if the church parish or community hall,can't be rented to the homosexual receptions and gay marriage partys,if the church refuses to rent the haul,then they can be inviolation of their rights??....fucking loop holes...............it's the begining of the end.....tell me why would a human nation embrace a idea that one day could cause us to be exstinct....................... your all smoking way to much bud .....I once could keep my children from such things,but now it will be forced upon them over time..........who speaks for my kids not the gays certainly,,,,,I by no means hate gay people,infact I love them,but I do hate their sin!.............

[Stedric]

Do you really think I am dumb? out of 6 billion people on the planet,5 billion of them believe in God!.

Wow, a new record. Two sentences into that paragraph and already I'm bored. One, when did you hear me say dumb? No I don't think you are dumb by any means.

5 billion people?! I'd check that statistic if I were you, buddy. Worldwide there are about 2.1 billion people who adhere to the doctrines of Christianity. In the end that's still the majority, though. 'Course we know the majority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans) is always right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust).

[makor01]

yeah bruiser please see my previous post. hows that wall feel? hit it yet?

[XTC]

Those of you who disaprove of Gay Marriage for religious reasons should start coming up with better excuses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050704/ap_on_re_us/united_church_gays

United Church of Christ Backs Gay Marriage

ATLANTA - The United Church of Christ's rule-making body voted overwhelmingly Monday to approve a resolution that endorses same-sex marriage, making it the largest Christian denomination to do so.

The vote is not binding on individual churches, but could cause some churches to leave the fold.

Roughly 80 percent of the members of the church's General Synod voted to approve the resolution. They debated for about an hour before voting.

On Sunday, a committee of about 50 United Church of Christ representatives gave nearly unanimous approval to the resolution, recommending that the General Synod approve it. It was supported by the UCC's president, John H. Thomas.

Traditionally strong in New England, the liberal denomination of 1.3 million members has long been supportive of gays and lesbians.

The committee also voted against an alternative resolution defining marriage as between one man and one woman. A small group of conservative congregations had proposed that ammendment, and suggested that approval of gay marriage could lead to the church's collapse.

The church was criticized last year for its television advertising campaign featuring a gay couple, among others, being excluded from a church. CBS and NBC rejected the 30-second ads.

In the early 1970s, the UCC became the first major Christian body to ordain an openly gay minister. Twenty years ago, it declared itself to be "open and affirming" of gays and lesbians.

The same-sex resolution was submitted by the Southern California and Nevada Conference. The resolution specified that bisexual and transgender persons merit the same support and protections as gays and lesbians.

UCC churches are autonomous, meaning the General Synod does not create policy for its more than 5,700 congregations.

No hard data exist on how many gays and lesbians are in the UCC.

The Rev. Rebecca Voelkel of Cleveland, national interim director of the UCC Coalition for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Concerns, said about 2,000 people are on the group's mailing list and about 1,000 clergy or seminarians are gay. The denomination has 10,323 ordained ministers.

___

On the Net:

United Church of Christ: http://www.ucc.org

[amsterdam]

cool.

so what,it still lost on EVERY SINGLE STATE BALLOT LAST YEAR?and it would lose again.sadly.

[bruiser]

Those of you who disaprove of Gay Marriage for religious reasons should start coming up with better excuses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050704/ap_on_re_us/united_church_gays

United Church of Christ Backs Gay Marriage

ATLANTA - The United Church of Christ's rule-making body voted overwhelmingly Monday to approve a resolution that endorses same-sex marriage, making it the largest Christian denomination to do so.

The vote is not binding on individual churches, but could cause some churches to leave the fold.

Roughly 80 percent of the members of the church's General Synod voted to approve the resolution. They debated for about an hour before voting.

On Sunday, a committee of about 50 United Church of Christ representatives gave nearly unanimous approval to the resolution, recommending that the General Synod approve it. It was supported by the UCC's president, John H. Thomas.

Traditionally strong in New England, the liberal denomination of 1.3 million members has long been supportive of gays and lesbians.

The committee also voted against an alternative resolution defining marriage as between one man and one woman. A small group of conservative congregations had proposed that ammendment, and suggested that approval of gay marriage could lead to the church's collapse.

The church was criticized last year for its television advertising campaign featuring a gay couple, among others, being excluded from a church. CBS and NBC rejected the 30-second ads.

In the early 1970s, the UCC became the first major Christian body to ordain an openly gay minister. Twenty years ago, it declared itself to be "open and affirming" of gays and lesbians.

The same-sex resolution was submitted by the Southern California and Nevada Conference. The resolution specified that bisexual and transgender persons merit the same support and protections as gays and lesbians.

UCC churches are autonomous, meaning the General Synod does not create policy for its more than 5,700 congregations.

No hard data exist on how many gays and lesbians are in the UCC.

The Rev. Rebecca Voelkel of Cleveland, national interim director of the UCC Coalition for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Concerns, said about 2,000 people are on the group's mailing list and about 1,000 clergy or seminarians are gay. The denomination has 10,323 ordained ministers.

___

On the Net:

United Church of Christ: http://www.ucc.org

Yes there will be many who say they are of Christ but are actually antichrist...united church,is antichrist.......it's obviouse there isn't much christian reading going on between the people answering to this thread...

besides the true church of christ is the christian himself not a building or organization.....duh! we are the church the person who has christ in him....united church is a contradiction of the true christian faith...and for the individual who said I was wrong about the 5 billion people on earth believeing in god,I never said 5 billion were christians,that includes muslims sheek's hindui's,..............plus many more..........yes atheist are a very small minority.

I aint spreading hate but truth,if you agree or not..

[XTC]

Religion on a Whole, is a contradiction of God and Jesus.

[amsterdam]

besides on this site,i never hear anyone even talk of religon.almost everyone in america is religous to one degree or another and that will never change.people should get over it and move on.

[nicholasstanko]

HEY WAIT A MINUTE!

Are you guys talking about RELIGION in the POLITICS forum?!?!?!? You guys better cool it before the wrong people hears about this and shuts it down. Everyone knows that the two never have anything to do with one another so just stop it.

[nicholasstanko]

Do you really think I am dumb? out of 6 billion people on the planet,5 billion of them believe in God! atheist are the minority,just like the gay community,look don't tell me that this is good for the country!,were I am a christian with my 3 kids in public school,and we just ousted a homesexual female who goes around to all the schools teaching it's o'k to be gay,now mind you she ventured first only into the high schools,but now she is trying to come into the schools and speak will grade 8 and 6 and 4,she has a right to be gay but don't push your crap on me or my kids,also they just scrapped a book a couple of years back but now if gay marriage go's ahead throughout canada,the book will once again find it's demonic head back in our schools,the book was called it's o'k to have 2 mommys,also another book that ended up in alot of canadian schools was called edward and the prince,where it illustates a boy falling in love with a prince all done in cartoon form,it illustrates as well at the end of the book the prince and the boy come together and kiss...what the fuck?????? hey if ya want to be gay thats fine but don't push it on us.......we as parents can stop alot of it comming into the school,but once the gay marriage gets the o'k look out,every school and educational system will be drenched with homosexuality,not just educating but going further and making it a altertive life style like putting on a different pair of socks for example paul martin says this won't effect the church's or religions of our great nation,nor will people of faith be tied up in any of it,how could that be????..........for example paul says,no church will have to marry homeosexuals,butI say if the church parish or community hall,can't be rented to the homosexual receptions and gay marriage partys,if the church refuses to rent the haul,then they can be inviolation of their rights??....fucking loop holes...............it's the begining of the end.....tell me why would a human nation embrace a idea that one day could cause us to be exstinct....................... your all smoking way to much bud .....I once could keep my children from such things,but now it will be forced upon them over time..........who speaks for my kids not the gays certainly,,,,,I by no means hate gay people,infact I love them,but I do hate their sin!.............


Cool it with that stuff man. I'm not gay and i wouldnt ACTIVELY support gay rights. But you're way out of line talking about how you hate their sin. Who the fuck gave you a right to call what they do a sin? YEH YEH..."God told me so"... but whatever. Believe it or not your little rule book known as the bible was written by men and the contradictions found within it are the result of making it up as they went.

You don't want gay marriage? Then you go out and find some psychological reports authenticated by scientists and doctors giving factual evidence of damaging nervosis-induced stress due to daddy boinking daddy. Dont come here on a serious political forum talking about how God's gonna strike the gay men down. If that were true, we wouldnt have a catholic church now would we?

Now grow up and use grown up resources to argue and protest against grown up matters. Leave the guesswork faith for bedtime stories. I'll ask God if maybe He can help you learn a bit of tolerance and compassion for others. Your Sunday school teacher didn't do a very good job.

[bruiser]

hey I never said anything you just said lol,but thats o'k if the bible is full of contridictions post a few of them and I will explain them from a christian point of view....contridiction appear to those who don't understand....I hate all sin! including my own....and for the person who said that religion is a contridiction of God and jesus your absolutly right,I don't have a religion just faith..

[nicholasstanko]

hey I never said anything you just said lol,but thats o'k if the bible is full of contridictions post a few of them and I will explain them from a christian point of view....contridiction appear to those who don't understand....I hate all sin! including my own....and for the person who said that religion is a contridiction of God and jesus your absolutly right,I don't have a religion just faith..



I by no means hate gay people,infact I love them,but I do hate their sin!.............

I spent my three paragraphs based on that line. You have no right to say what gay people do is a sin. You do have a right to say that according to your beliefs what gay people do is a sin though.

And i dont really want to post some scripture because it often detracts from the main topic and we'd just argue our interpretations back and forth. Give it a rest! The bible was written by a few guys trying to consolidate power and authority. it didnt magically fall out of the sky like most would love to believe. no...just some guys sitting around in the desert with nothing better to do and buzzing off of the best hash oil imaginable.

[Stedric]

I have a question. If God is supposedly pro-life, and loves children, please explain this;


From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces

God loves children, but apparently has no problem with sending she-bears (and of COURSE that had to be female) to make them into human confetti.

[Torog]

Yes there will be many who say they are of Christ but are actually antichrist...united church,is antichrist.......it's obviouse there isn't much christian reading going on between the people answering to this thread...

besides the true church of christ is the christian himself not a building or organization.....duh! we are the church the person who has christ in him....united church is a contradiction of the true christian faith...and for the individual who said I was wrong about the 5 billion people on earth believeing in god,I never said 5 billion were christians,that includes muslims sheek's hindui's,..............plus many more..........yes atheist are a very small minority.

I aint spreading hate but truth,if you agree or not..
Howdy bruiser,

Exactly ! You hit the nail on the head ! Jesus said that if we hew a log or split a rock,He would be there,because the Kingdom of God is within us..we don't need no fancy dang church building,in order to worship God and Christ.

I subscibe to the Church of Christ,but it ain't anything like the UCC,we're way more conservative,and we do believe that homosexuality,and therefore gay marriage,is a sin. We're so conservative,that we don't believe in musical instruments in the Church..we sing,no matter how bad it may sound..lol,without the accompanant of musical instruments.

Those congregations who do not treat homosexuality as the sin that it is,are in direct defiance of God's Word,in my opinion.

Have a good one !

[Twoshots]

Nostradamus's poems state clearly that the world was going to end in 1999

Pah another someone who cant read properly.
The book is open to interpretation.
It is written in four different languages as a code.You do not read it literally.
I have been reading it for many a year and i still cannot make head nor tale of it.We are only humans pretending to know all and boy do we have a shock coming to us..

[bruiser]

dude!...no offence but Nostradamus's never once claimed his visions from God! infact he used alot of weird drugs for his visions,as well he never was a deep christian,he just masked his postion because of fear of persection from the RC church,he was a loner in a way with his visions,and gave no credit to God! he isn't biblical by any means and never professed Jesus as Lord!....he was a false visionary and early forms of man made hard drugs was his inspiration.....

Nostradamus's was also a part of the under ground order and was mixed in with witch craft and different forms of societys as example he was within the Mason ranks as well.....Nostradamus's is kinda viewed more so as a fool rather then a man of great vision,besides he gave God zero credit therefore he ispirations was not of god.......the apostels of the scriptures give full credit to the Lord Jesus Christ,and everyword from their lips were a direct link to the holy spirit,God spoke through them.......one more thing,how you judge if a man is a true prophet of God is easy! he is never wrong in his visions,Nostradamus's wasn't even right 2% of the time....he is a false prophet..

[bruiser]

Howdy bruiser,

Exactly ! You hit the nail on the head ! Jesus said that if we hew a log or split a rock,He would be there,because the Kingdom of God is within us..we don't need no fancy dang church building,in order to worship God and Christ.

I subscibe to the Church of Christ,but it ain't anything like the UCC,we're way more conservative,and we do believe that homosexuality,and therefore gay marriage,is a sin. We're so conservative,that we don't believe in musical instruments in the Church..we sing,no matter how bad it may sound..lol,without the accompanant of musical instruments.

Those congregations who do not treat homosexuality as the sin that it is,are in direct defiance of God's Word,in my opinion.

Have a good one !

Yes friend sounds correct,and is correct,my only question to the united church's and other church's that are antichrist,how do you teach the scriptures in church? do you skip over all the gay parts do they avoid speaking about the numerse verses that go against homesexual relations?

How would it work???? gay minister gets up preach's about sin,and how to be like Jesus,but at the sametime jump over the lords word when it pertains to them?? really strange situation there! this is just satan popping up his ugly head and getting more and more pushy because he knows his days are numbered......To be honest this in it's self is a complete prophesy of the Lord coming true,Jesus says many will come in my name,and many will come to you as wolfs in sheeps clothing but are really ravaging beasts,and allowing Gay marriage to go ahead in our nation is another prophecy comming into focus,before the day of the Lord is to come upon us there will be a falling away first from him,this is a prime example....people may think I hate gays but infact I love them,but hate their sin! like sodom and gamora,were destroyed so to will every sin on earth......accept Christ now or remain with sin forever!.................there are many Gay people who came to the Lord and were saved it happens everyday,,,,,,,,,,I pray for these people and hope that one day they can fight the demon inside them......

[XTC]

Yes friend sounds correct,and is correct,my only question to the united church's and other church's that are antichrist,how do you teach the scriptures in church? do you skip over all the gay parts do they avoid speaking about the numerse verses that go against homesexual relations?

How would it work???? gay minister gets up preach's about sin,and how to be like Jesus,but at the sametime jump over the lords word when it pertains to them?? really strange situation there! this is just satan popping up his ugly head and getting more and more pushy because he knows his days are numbered......To be honest this in it's self is a complete prophesy of the Lord coming true,Jesus says many will come in my name,and many will come to you as wolfs in sheeps clothing but are really ravaging beasts,and allowing Gay marriage to go ahead in our nation is another prophecy comming into focus,before the day of the Lord is to come upon us there will be a falling away first from him,this is a prime example....people may think I hate gays but infact I love them,but hate their sin! like sodom and gamora,were destroyed so to will every sin on earth......accept Christ now or remain with sin forever!.................there are many Gay people who came to the Lord and were saved it happens everyday,,,,,,,,,,I pray for these people and hope that one day they can fight the demon inside them......


More of the kooky shit Iread from you Evangelican Christians, the better I feel being Agnostic.

[ermitonto]

dude!...no offence but Nostradamus's never once claimed his visions from God!

So? If he had, would you have taken them seriously? My point was that we need to question the reliability of old texts that don't seem to have any corroborating evidence to support their stories. If somebody could find me a shred of archeological evidence that the Jews were enslaved in Egypt and then wandered around in the desert for 40 years, or if somebody could find me some sort of evidence that the world once got flooded and the genetic diversity of every species on earth was reduced to two individuals each, then maybe I would consider taking seriously the Bible's claim that the apocalypse will happen. But since it seems that substantial portions of the Bible are completely fictional, I won't.

[bruiser]

So? If he had, would you have taken them seriously? My point was that we need to question the reliability of old texts that don't seem to have any corroborating evidence to support their stories. If somebody could find me a shred of archeological evidence that the Jews were enslaved in Egypt and then wandered around in the desert for 40 years, or if somebody could find me some sort of evidence that the world once got flooded and the genetic diversity of every species on earth was reduced to two individuals each, then maybe I would consider taking seriously the Bible's claim that the apocalypse will happen. But since it seems that substantial portions of the Bible are completely fictional, I won't.


Dude ya gotta be kidding me? you can't see anything happening around you? or the world? you can't be seriouse? you are the type I guess that needs to touch,taste or feel in order to believe right! can't you see...........you said" I would consider taking seriously the Bible's claim that the apocalypse will happen" If given proof?......................what the?..........apocalypse? dude,global warming never seen before since the dinasours!,until now!,war everywhere throughout the planet!,oil markets crashing econimacal insanity,famine like the world has never seen,red tie! the worlds fish supply getting messed up,polar ice caps melting at a alarming rate,ozone layer with a hole bigger then the state of alaska!,every little freak country with chemical,biologicail,nuke weapons,dieses,famine,earth quakes at a record high,sunamie's!terrorism,heat waves killed 5000 people in france last year! the whole world has changed more in the last 60 years then it did in the last several thousand! maybe longer,bird flu ecodemic,asian flu,aids!homosexuality on the rise,murders at a record high,did you know that there has been more conflicks spread throughout the world in the last 50 years then in our previouse history!,,,I could go on and on and on,,,,,,but you don't see any of what I mentioned,what does it take for one to see? then you say if I have proof then I will believe? dude get off the bong! ...........The Lord says there will be many in the last days who will not believe! even with all the signs around them!,if you won't believe the living,then you will never believe the dead!........................note: BABAYLON HAS FALLEN! ..........isn't it interesting that babaylon is undersiege right now by the americans? babaylon is now known as Iraq!!!!!.....................get ready I know I am....

[XTC]

Oh My God, It's Armaggedon! Gay People are Kissing! AH! Y

[bruiser]

One more thing! read this section of the forum politics, and look at all the threads! there isn't one that is positive...........infact most if not all of them speak about what I have been saying.....as for xTC the Lord was laughed at as well and mocked! kinda like the samething your doing,but thats o'k because before the world hated me it hated Jesus first!..........peace..

[XTC]

Please tell me(Without using Religion) how Homosexuality is bad. Please, Amuse me.

[ermitonto]

you are the type I guess that needs to touch,taste or feel in order to believe right!
Right. What other reliable methods of obtaining knowledge about the world are there?


can't you see...........you said" I would consider taking seriously the Bible's claim that the apocalypse will happen" If given proof?......................what the?..........apocalypse? dude,global warming never seen before since the dinasours!,until now!,war everywhere throughout the planet!,oil markets crashing econimacal insanity,famine like the world has never seen,red tie! the worlds fish supply getting messed up,polar ice caps melting at a alarming rate,ozone layer with a hole bigger then the state of alaska!,every little freak country with chemical,biologicail,nuke weapons,dieses,famine,earth quakes at a record high,sunamie's!terrorism,heat waves killed 5000 people in france last year! the whole world has changed more in the last 60 years then it did in the last several thousand! maybe longer,bird flu ecodemic,asian flu,aids!homosexuality on the rise,murders at a record high,did you know that there has been more conflicks spread throughout the world in the last 50 years then in our previouse history!,,,I could go on and on and on,,,,,,but you don't see any of what I mentioned,what does it take for one to see? then you say if I have proof then I will believe? dude get off the bong! ...........The Lord says there will be many in the last days who will not believe! even with all the signs around them!,if you won't believe the living,then you will never believe the dead!........................note: BABAYLON HAS FALLEN! ..........isn't it interesting that babaylon is undersiege right now by the americans? babaylon is now known as Iraq!!!!!.....................get ready I know I am....

I fail to see how bad things happening in the world is a sign that Judgment Day is imminent. I mean, it could just be bad things happening. Bad things have happened for a long time. I'm sure the people who lived through the bubonic plague thought the same thing you're thinking, and our lives are wonderful compared to theirs.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but Jesus and his followers all apparently predicted the Second Coming would happen in the 1st century:
http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/Jesus_and_his_expired_prophecies.htm

[F L E S H]

Oh man, I thought having Torog on this forum was more than enough, but now Bruiser starts going at it?


How would it work???? gay minister gets up preach's about sin,and how to be like Jesus,but at the sametime jump over the lords word when it pertains to them??

That is the most fucking hypocritical thing I've ever read in my life. You "christians" do it all the time (chirstian in " " because you aren't true christians). Selling daughters, not touching 'impure' women, killing people left and right... You don't seem to have any qualms about skipping those parts at your church, now do you? SO WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to denounce gays when they do it too

You so called Christians are the most fucking hypocritical holier-than-thou (literally) lot. You like to talk numbers? (you claimed that 5 out of 6 billion human believe in God... Strange stat, that) Well, I'm Italian, and was raised Catholic, and there are mopre than 1 billion Catholics in the world. Let me tell you one thing, What Jesus preached in his Gospels is love for everyone, no matter their differences. You are not true christians because all you breed is hate, and you are afraid and literally want to eliminate those different from you. That is the ultimate contradiction in your 'christianity'.

[Button Basher]

That is the most fucking hypocritical thing I've ever read in my life... ...That is the ultimate contradiction in your 'christianity'.

Booyah, this ones for you man. :D

What is up with these hardcore Jesus-freaks (besides their total disconnection with reality). My bro's ex is a very strong Christian but she's possibly the most compassionate and kindly person I know. She doesn't approve of homosexuality, but she'd never condemn it and accepts everyone for who they are. She is a true Christian, living by the good morals and codes of the Bible and recognising the ignorance behind taking a 2'000 year old set of ideologies just that little bit too seriously in this day and age. I admire her for that.

Perhaps we should join Bruiser and just hate on everyone that thinks differently from us (ooh, just like the scary terrorists do, fancy that).

Cheers F L E S H :cool: .

[amsterdam]

if gay marriage didnt even come close in Oregon,you know its gonna be awhile.i would get over it.

[Deborah]

Its funny how so many that call same sex marrage or just have sex with the same gender is bad but in the meantime they have anul sex or oral sex...lol if they say this stuff for a religious reason than they are doomed in there world anyway. They are to only have sex according to the bible to procreate and thats all. They are not suppose to enjoy it, but they do...lol. Love is love no matter what sex the perons are. My daughter is a lesbian and I knew she was before she came out of her closet. She showed signs when she was 3. I do belive there are cross overs but i also know for a fact from raising her it is genitic and it cant be helped with many and to think the religious head honchos think they can be rehabilitated is just crazy. They need to be the ones changed to accepted what is here and live with it, like we do with them.

[amsterdam]

i hear ya,and i agree with your point of view.however,gay marriage isnt gonna be around for a long,long time.gay rights activists should pay attention to that and the votes that came in less than a year ago in 14 states.

[Oli]

We're so conservative,that we don't believe in musical instruments in the Church..we sing,no matter how bad it may sound..lol,without the accompanant of musical instruments.

Sorry to take this thread off-topic but I'm curious as to why you don't allow instruments in church. I've never heard of this practice before and it struck me as quite an odd rule.

[amsterdam]

to each his own.

[nicholasstanko]

to each his own.

I agree.

Just keep it in the church and not down our throats and i'm cool with whatever you want to do.

[potpimp]

Some of the stuff Torog says used to piss me off. Now I just find him laughable. Am I the only one who thinks this guy would be a great character on SNL?



Torog fears his own gay impulses, thats why he talks about them so much, he got a boner in the shower after PE and hates his gay desires

[ermitonto]

To quote Bill Hicks:

Anyone that far to the right is hiding a very deep, dark secret, you do know that, right? I'm an armchair psychologist but anyone that far to the right - you know when Jesse Helms finally dies - he's going to commit suicide first of all in a washtub out back underneath a pecan tree he's going to slash his wrists and he's gonna write in blood, "I been a bad boy" - but you know they're going to find the skins of young children drying in his attic, swarms of horseflies going in and out of the eaves, and on CNN, over and over, his wife going "I always wondered about Jesse's collection of little shoes....

[sistabella]

Yay for Canada!!
In fact this allowed my best friend Lynn to marry his long time partner Alex in Ontario!!!