Flag Burning Amendment

[XTC]

Like any patriotic American, it pains me to see the stars and stripes aflame. Know what else pains me? It pains me to see the KKK marching through city streets; it pains me to hear the bile that comes from Fred Phelps's mouth; it pains me to hear nigger or faggot.

Tough shit.

Free speech must be protected even when we find the speech repulsive. I may not like what you say, but I'm going to fight to the death to let you say it. United States = Land of the Free.

Today, the US House passed an amendment to the Constitution banning desecration of the flag. The Senate is more likely now than ever to pass it. If passed, the measure must then be approved by 38 state legislatures.

An amendment banning speech must not tarnish our Constitution. Please call your senators and tell them to vote AGAINST an amendment banning free speech. (If they aren't on speed dial, www.senate.gov)

To quote a Democratic rep from NY, "if the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents."

[Fengzi]

I agree, I wouldn't burn the flag but if some shithead out there wants to do it he/she should have the right to. On the other hand, maybe this isn't so bad. Why stop at the flag. Why not just pass an amendment that bans assholes from being assholes. Wouldn't that then be grounds to impeach Bush??

[nicholasstanko]

Lol. fengzi youre really cool in my book. You and a few others seem to understand that free speech should indeed remain free.

[Mojavpa]

So let me get this straight, if the amendment passes, I would not be able to hypothetically burn an American flag I purchased on my own property?

[NowhereMan]

its defacing something i hold dear
and i tell ya YOU wont burn one in front of me without me resorting to violence if i must to get you to stop
nothing to do with free speach,its just done to piss others off,and it works
to many people died for the colors to have it burnt like that
why cant they just burn copies of say,pictures of WHO's running the place temporarily and not the nations flag,the goverment changes every 4 to 8 yrs,
ya dont like the Goverment FINE but dont burn my flag to show it
i am not the goverment
that flag represents MY nation, NOT the goverment ,they fly it to let everyone know simply,this is american property

[Fengzi]

^ I think everyone agrees with you Nowhere Man. The question isn't whether or not people should burn the flag, they shouldn't, but whether or not the government should restrict someones right to do so.

[makor01]

there is a proper way to burn a flag, and you do this if its become old, torn, or not in suitable condition to be displayed.

[imagoober]

so you dont want someone defacing something you hold dear to you, well that flag stands for freedom, and in banning your right to burn it there taking away your freedom.

[NowhereMan]

there is a proper way to burn a flag, and you do this if its become old, torn, or not in suitable condition to be displayed.
exactly

i dont think anyone has a right to burn my flag in protest of anything
the flag aint a tool to be used to show your dislike of laws and actions by a then in power group of assholes
it was piad for in blood and should be respected at all times

nothing to do with rights to protest,yell all ya want burn anything but my flag
hell i will yell with you and give ya a light in most cases
peace

[Torog]

exactly

i dont think anyone has a right to burn my flag in protest of anything
the flag aint a tool to be used to show your dislike of laws and actions by a then in power group of assholes
it was piad for in blood and should be respected at all times

nothing to do with rights to protest,yell all ya want burn anything but my flag
hell i will yell with you and give ya a light in most cases
peace

Howddy NWM,

I stand with you on this issue,over at Marihemp,another issue has been raised in regards to the flag..and that is,that Christians are in peril,if they 'worship' the flag..that it is a 'graven image',and that we should not be pledging allegiance to the flag..that it's an 'idol'.

My response was that I'm loyal to God first,before Man..that I would be in fact,classified a super-Christian patriot,according to the domestic terrorist definition list. I think that the least I'd do,in the event that I came across someone burning the flag in protest,is to tell them that I'm a veteran..and that I'm offended at them pissin on the sacrifice of their fellow American's. I'd probably git in trouble for tellin the most that I'd do..so I'll just keep my mouth shut about that...lol

I believe in dissent,as long as it's honorable..for example,pissing or crapping on the flag,is dishonorable,in my opinion.

Have a good one....

[ermitonto]

If you really like the flag, you should be proud to live in a country where you can say "Everybody here has the right to burn the flag if he wants to, but they're not! Look around, and you'll see it flying everywhere." You shouldn't have to make a constitutional amendment for something 99.99% of the country would never even think about doing. Flag burning isn't really rampant in this country, you know.

Plus, a law against flag burning would be completely useless. People will find ways to desecrate the flag if they want to besides burning it. Then you'll have to pass laws against cutting the flag up into little pieces, against eating the flag, against throwing mud at the flag, against putting the flag on the ground and stomping on it, against flying it upside-down, etc etc etc. And what constitutes a flag anyways? Would it be legal if it had 12 stripes and wasn't really the American flag? Or how about this flag? (http://mist.pengytek.net/other/flag.JPG) Can I burn a picture of the flag? Can I burn a picture of a burning flag, to show my distaste in anti-Americanism? Can I melt a plastic flag?

I'm not saying I want to do any of those things (even though I really don't like the current US government, I'd prefer to just talk about it because burning flags does nothing but piss people off). But this flag burning amendment flies in the face of the basic human right to freedom of self-expression. You should be able to express yourself however you like so long as you don't harm anyone else or anyone else's property. If you don't like flag-burning, don't burn flags or hang around people who do. Besides, people are still at liberty to burn the Seal of the President, to burn a pile of the 50 state flags, or to burn an effigy of the Statue of Liberty, so these attempts to silence dissent are not only contrary to the very freedoms the American Revolution was fought for, they're pointless.

[Juggalotus17]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're contradicting yourself if you think this amendmant is wrong!!

The american flag represents our rights, freedoms, and constitution. If you think it should be ok to burn our flag, then you're basicly saying its okay for our freedoms to be burned away.

[pisshead]

not when the country no longer stands for what the flag does...i don't see why burning one should be illegal. i wouldn't do it in the first place.

[Juggalotus17]

Good call, pisshead. It actually took alot out of me to post that. America isn't even free anymore :-P

Don't get me wrong, I like bush and alot of what this country stands for. But it just seems like its one freedom after another thats being taken from us. Including the most recent one today, our right to our own property. :-P

[makor01]

not when the country no longer stands for what the flag does...


i think thats bullshit man. i dont think you actually realize how free you are...i bet if you posted all this shit in saddam's day in iraq, theyd hunt you down and skin ya...you dont have it bad at all here in the USA. It could be alot fucking worse.

[Juggalotus17]

makor01, you're partially right. America is one of the most free countries. My mom's co-worker who lived in russia, she came to america and first walked into a supermarket and saw all the food in that store, and that you could select whatever you wanted from it, she fainted. She never even dreamed of a freedom like that. That is why america is so great.

But on the other hand, America is going down the drain too. If you can disagree with that, look at what alot of this website and NORML stands for. The patriot act basically fucked the shit out of our freedoms, and the government is getting more and more powers, and we're losing more and more of our freedoms. The government is hiding certain things within other bills being passed so they can manipulate our country.

We are no longer in control of our country, the government is. And the government is no longer the people.

[pisshead]

this morning's supreme court decision on eminent domain is very telling of the direction this country is taking.

that's not something to be excited about.

[Juggalotus17]

I bet it'll be overturned by congress soon. Hopefully.

OH, AND I'D JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT IT WAS THE LIBERAL JUSTICES WHO MADE THIS RULING, SO HAHAHA YOU CAN'T BLAME IT ON BUSH THIS TIME!! :D

[bhallg2k]

There was a federal law banning the desecration of the flag from 1968 to 1989. 18 USC 700 stated: "Whoever knowingly casts contempt upon any flag of the United States by publicly mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning, or trampling upon it shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both."

It was later amended to include: "The term 'flag of the United States' as used in this section, shall include any flag, standard colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, color, or ensign of the United States of America, or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, standards, colors, or ensign of the United States of America."

So basically, burning a photo of the US flag was deemed to be the same as burning an actual flag and carried the same punishment. Luckily, the Supreme Court struck down the law in the case of Texas v. Johnson.

I'd be interested to read the exact text of the Amendment as passed by the House. It wouldn't suprise me if it made, say, American flag boxer shorts or cutting a flag-themed cake illegal, as the old law did.

If this isn't completely ridiculous, I don't know what is.

And as an aside, why is it that the people whose religion bans idolatry are the ones so up in arms over the symbol of the US? I realize that there isn't a direct connection between the First Commandment and burning the flag, but I do see it as being an ironic parallel.

The flag is just a flag. It's not the nation. Stop worshipping it.

[makor01]

The flag is just a flag. It's not the nation. Stop worshipping it.

Yeah but that flag does represent this nation and should not be burned. There are other "productive" ways to protest, burning our flag is not one of them.

[ermitonto]

It may not be the most productive way to protest, but I don't see why somebody should be punished for choosing to express themselves in that manner if they don't put anyone else in danger. Do we really need to cram flag burners into our overloaded justice system? No, because it's absolutely ridiculous to try to punish political dissidence with the law, just because most people view it as "dishonorable". This is fascism creeping up on us very slowly. How far away are we from banning anti-American imagery in art? How far away are we from banning "dishonorable" books? If you can close off one avenue of expression, it sets a precedent to close off the others, until all political dissidence is made illegal. And do you have any idea how many flags will be burned in protest if this thing is passed?

I can't wait to move to a country with more rational people.

[NowhereMan]

this morning's supreme court decision on eminent domain is very telling of the direction this country is taking.

that's not something to be excited about.
ya know what
WE AGREE ON SOMETHING,
gonna have a bowl and think about that,shocking as it may be
that some scary shit ,i never did say money didnt talk in the usa.

how the fuck can they just take ya house because someone else wants it?
that is indeed a justifable thing to bitch about
good one pisshead

just dont want my flag burned to protest it,

[Nullific]

I'll burn the fucking flag regardless of what the constitution says, might as well burn that one too since Bush has already wiped his ass with it.

[makor01]

I'll burn the fucking flag regardless of what the constitution says, might as well burn that one too since Bush has already wiped his ass with it.

go ahead man burn it, while youre doing this, make sure you think of all the liberties you have that other countries dont. youre apparently more of an asshole than a thinker by making a comment like that. why dont you think before you open your pie hole and show us all that you have no clue what youre talking about.

flame on.

[nicholasstanko]

i think thats bullshit man. i dont think you actually realize how free you are...i bet if you posted all this shit in saddam's day in iraq, theyd hunt you down and skin ya...you dont have it bad at all here in the USA. It could be alot fucking worse.

it's not bad at all BUT that's how it starts. Think of the government as a spoiled child. You succumb to their begging and then they get what they want. you roll over and sleep because it's "what the hell it's not that bad". dangerous thinking because power corrupts.

Protesting about small things that dont matter overall is whats holding the country together i think. If more people got pissed when even the smallest liberty is taken away then the government wouldnt dream of wanting more than that.

I'd rather be a proud citizen saying that it's perfectly legal to burn a flag but look around...noone's doing it because we love the country THAT much. It kinda detracts from the ideal if it's forced upon.

[nicholasstanko]

Yeah but that flag does represent this nation and should not be burned. There are other "productive" ways to protest, burning our flag is not one of them.

I agree. But that's what freedom is. In your (our) opinion that's an unproductive way to protest. To other people it isn't. We dont share free speech on different days at different times we share it equally.

And also...where does it stop? Today it's flag burning...what if tomorrow it's about burning the bible or desecrating it?

If you ban burning the flag that isnt going to stop people. If it's down to burning a baseball then people will do it. Anybody fanatic enough to burn a nation's flag isnt going to just go home and fall asleep since uncle sam said no more lag burning.

[nicholasstanko]

I'll burn the fucking flag regardless of what the constitution says, might as well burn that one too since Bush has already wiped his ass with it.

I agree.

[amsterdam]

I'll burn the fucking flag regardless of what the constitution says, might as well burn that one too since Bush has already wiped his ass with it.


i thought you left the site?didnt you ask to be banned cause torog got your panties in a wad?

[nicholasstanko]

Lay off, amsterdam. These boards are for everyone to use at their leisure.

[amsterdam]

it was a joke,your a newbie.nullific was here long before you arrived.

[XTC]

i thought you left the site?didnt you ask to be banned cause torog got your panties in a wad?

haha :cool:

[amsterdam]

hey xtc,were you here when that went down??it was great.a classic.

[Button Basher]

Well you can't blame him. The average conversation with a Republican usually ends with you looking like this...

[XTC]

hey xtc,were you here when that went down??it was great.a classic.


Ya. I remember it. something about like muslim fundementalists or something along those lines. It was the mother of all pissing contests.

[nicholasstanko]

LOL. LOL

[amsterdam]

Well you can't blame him. The average conversation with a Republican usually ends with you looking like this...


actually,it was nullific who started to cry and then asked the mods to ban him.it was tooooooooo funny.

[nicholasstanko]

Lol. I think he was high at the time with some laced pcp or sumthin.

[Button Basher]

actually,it was nullific who started to cry and then asked the mods to ban him.it was tooooooooo funny.

Yeah, I remember. Poor bastard :cool: !

[amsterdam]

let 'em burn the flag,lol.what an effective protest method that is.

what logic that is.the progressive movement is so daring."we want change,lets burn a flag!!"might as well strap a sign to your chest saying look how unoriginal i am, i dont have a clue how the world works so i am gonna burn a flag!!

makes me wanna listen to some dreadlock wearing 16 year olds who havent stepped foot outta southern california or new york.

i was just like all those chumps when i was 18 years old.Then i actually traveled the middle east and europe for two years andf saw for myself(not what you see on american television or the internet) and came home a republican(not a conservative)

i say,you dont like it here ,get a pass to live in china for two years and see how terrific communism really is.go to israel for a while and talk to a concentration camp survivor and see if they make any comparison between america and hitler and the SS.there are to many fucking pussies in this country who aint seen SHIT in their life,but complain to no end."its all the govts. fault.or its all bush fault.yea right,its your own fucking fault your life isnt happy.

anyone who dosent think life is funny as hell has missed the boat.

[Nullific]

You're a piece of shit dude, I took a temporary leave because Torog is over there talking about killing all the muslims...so I start posting a couple months later and all you can be is a bitch?

My point was, go ahead and pass a law that bans the burning of flags if you honestly believe that such a law will stop people from burning them. We all know that those laws against drug use stopped people from getting high...right?
For christs sake if a person is burning his nations flag how much do you think he dotes on the nations law in the first place?

[amsterdam]

i wasnt bitching at all,glad your back!but seriously,this is like a play world(online),why would anyone get soo mad in a play world.who cares!

[Nullific]

You must appearently, considering that you're the only one bringing it up.

[amsterdam]

could care less,it was funny as hell.even the mods got in on that one.

[NowhereMan]

LOL. LOL
that bugs me nick
please change
u no what i mean

[nicholasstanko]

that bugs me nick
please change
u no what i mean

you got it.

[Cennar]

lol, your flag in your words is a symbol. its suposed to be a big symbol for your rights and freedoms. well dont you think its really not up to you weather or not some one respecs your symbols? your rights your freedoms, why tell them that they cant express them selfs? besides its not like its government isued its not like money or any thing closly regulated. how are you suposed to police that, what about policing gay sex or masturbatson, or drugs. now regulating free speach.. thats going to go vary well.. if that becomes an amendment fine go ahead, your freedoms will crumble under the weght of a symbol, a freaking symbol... whats more important? protecting a symbol. or protecting what that symbol repersents

[Nullific]

It is yet another example of this administration fabricating issues for people to yap about. Homosexuals, drug users and now...oh no...flag burners. Some people may find such activities distasteful but when it comes down to it they hurt nobody. How do you punish somebody for burning a flag, jail time and a fine? Another case in which the punishment is more severe than the crime, while the murderers and rapists walk free.
We might as well just reinstate the House Committee on Un-American Activities then, you'd like that wouldn't you?

[bhallg2k]

It is yet another example of this administration fabricating issues for people to yap about. Homosexuals, drug users and now...oh no...flag burners. Some people may find such activities distasteful but when it comes down to it they hurt nobody. How do you punish somebody for burning a flag, jail time and a fine? Another case in which the punishment is more severe than the crime, while the murderers and rapists walk free.
We might as well just reinstate the House Committee on Un-American Activities then, you'd like that wouldn't you?

A little McCarthyism here and there never hurt anybody.

[pisshead]

meanwhile, america turns into a 3rd world dictatorship...as we merge with mexico and canada...

global feudalism will be fun, for the elite, not the vast majority of poor people.

[Psycho4Bud]

This says it all:

[amsterdam]

let them burn the flag,just makes you look childish and turns people off.works for me.

like busting up starbucks to help poor third world nations.hat-tip blue cat.

[Fengzi]

I agree that people should have the legal right to be an asshole and burn the flag if they want. I wouldn't ever do it since its poor taste but if that's what floats your boat, you should have the right to do it. Since this pisses so many people off I suggest a compromise:

They can have the right to burn the flag-Freedom of expression
Others can have the right to beat flag burners to a pulp-Also freedom of expression

Makes sense to me

[NowhereMan]

I agree that people should have the legal right to be an asshole and burn the flag if they want. I wouldn't ever do it since its poor taste but if that's what floats your boat, you should have the right to do it. Since this pisses so many people off I suggest a compromise:

They can have the right to burn the flag-Freedom of expression
Others can have the right to beat flag burners to a pulp-Also freedom of expression

Makes sense to me
Makes sense to me
seconds that,
burn jionts not flags

[Nullific]

Now what if you have american flag rolling papers?
Where do we draw the line?

[NowhereMan]

Now what if you have american flag rolling papers?
Where do we draw the line?
that would be IN HONOR of
not shitting on,
big difference

but i see ya piont

[Stedric]

I can't think of any reason why I'd burn a flag, Canadian or otherwise. I don't like the Bush administration but I recognize that they are not the be all and end all of America, which is in truth a wonderful nation. So you'd never see me burning an American flag.