nicholasstanko
06-06-2005, 03:42 PM
Thanks for the post sensiskunk, but i must say after reading that site i'm just even more confused:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages...e_evidence.html
Clearly put, this is a well-researched article to use if i ever wanted to learn about what makes a 757 tick. When you read on and scroll down it gives you a bunch of facts about 757's and if a 757 hit the pentagon, it should look like this this and that. We didn't ask for proof of what a 757 hitting the pentagon would look like, we asked for proof that a 757 hit in the first place. We want to see PICTURES of a PLANE that SUPPOSEDLY hit. The important thing i want people to take into consideration is that there seems to be this whole thing of throwing complicated facts and numbers at people in the hopes that they'll get frustrated and believe whatever guy with a degree tells them. And anyone who does stick with it and understands can't refute it because they forgot that they're not discussing what the wall proportions and trajectory lines should look like but WHERE IS THE PLANE? Even if you take all that and read it, it STILL has points that need to be elaborated. I'll show you...
Look down until you see a picture of the hole. Is it just me or do we live in a wonky reality where huge machines with WINGS punch really neat circular holes into concrete and steel reinforced walls? That's just about the same ideaology of cartoon characters running into a wooden door or glass window and leaving your silhouette perfectly cast as you run away.
Scroll down further, you see all these close-up photos of engine wreckage and so forth. Keeping in mind, that NEVER anywhere in the entire article he mentions at what TIME and at what DATE these photos were taken. Shit, when you think about it they couldve been taken at ANY crash site.
I just noticed this but there's a photo of the "crash site" and it looks like two pieces of wood propped up. The editor uses this photo to say there's an engine piece bottom right. Now that wood may have been propped up as a barricade but i doubt it with all those nifty "CAUTION DO NOT CROSS" yellow ticket tapes around. How delightful that the entire room is devestated but not the wood.
Still with me boys and girls? Let's scroll down further where they try to show you the different lightpoles and cars damaged by the airplane as it passed over the interstate.
First Photo: A lightpole knocked over
Let's keep in mind that a HUGE plane screaming at 573 mph (his stated cruising speed) hit an ALUMINUM lightpole and didnt mangle it to pieces? RIIIGHT.
Second Photo: A taxi with the front window smashed
Okay you can either say that it was hit with the plane or the sonic boom hit it. Let's not even entertain the notion that a plane hit the car and smashed the window. Let's work with the sonic effect. If that did happen then how come only the front window was affected? So what evidence is that? Some guy got drunk and used the plane story as a nice sob story for the insurance company?
Third Photo: A huge pillar of black smoke
How does that prove an AA plane hit the building?
Fourth Photo: Yet another lightpole
No comment. It's exactly the same as the first one
Quote:
The debris field of small chunks of plane witnesses said debris "rained down for minutes after the crash".
Waitaminit! I thought the plane headed in at 500+ mph! I took some physics in high school and that's rather odd that any object projected by forward thrust somehow managed to hit the building...puncture through....explode...and have its debris fall BACKWARD??? onto the lawn? Wait though, that's funny how witnesses saw debris falling down but we just saw a photo of a HUGE plume of smoke. It's a pretty good thing that we don't see any actual aircraft but thanks to a few eagle-eyed witnesses they saw debris falling THROUGH the smoke.
Scroll down more and you see the shredded pepsi can wreckage that i first mentioned. I don't think this is terribly important EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT ITS NOT EVEN SINGED OR MELTED! Truly amazing how when the plane exploded the metal didnt melt at all. Okay maybe it got blew up so fast the metal didnt melt...but if you look on the underside its AWFUL shiny.
Further down, we get the black box arguement. We're reassured that the black boxes WERE recovered and they WERENT played for the sake of all the grieving families. RIIIGHT...just like how the media didnt mind at all replaying footage after footage of people jumping to their deaths from the WTC towers and flashing pictures of captured prisoners right before they were beheaded. C'mon guys, it's been FOUR years now. That just doesnt cut it anymore.
Down some more and this guy's talking about desil engines being impacted and thrown 45 degrees toward the building. Then he says that if it was a bomb or missle then it would have been blown 45 degrees AWAY....how does that make sense? A missle or bomb shot from a plane is going to take the same trajectory as a cruising plane. The explosive repercussions arent going to change. Thats non-sensical.
Down down to a flash picture of a really blurry photo and this guy drawing an outline of a 757 and says that's it there. Okay...a guy draws his own outline and says SEE SEE that PROVES it. The only thing that proves is that this dude has an overactive imagination.
Down some more for more fun filled physics. Yes guys we now know what it should look like if a plane crashed....wheres the plane though?
Great! Some "LIEwitness" testimony!
1
Quote:
)"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001
Okay...let's keep that in mind for later
2
Quote:
)"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002
Wait hold on! He was walking NORTH...the plane came over the crest...he dived down...and then the plane turned around on a dime and hit the WESTERN wall? Also, let's keep in mind that he dived to the ground narrowly missing being hit by the engine though MIRACULOUSLY he didn't get caught in the vacuum suction and he's not deaf. PRAISE JESUS! ITS ONE A THEM DANG FANGLED MIRACLES, MARY LOU!
3
Quote:
)"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001
So let's see, he was across the street...a huge plane crashed FILLED with fuel...made an explosion and he's still concious? Explosions move OUTWARD which means that the energy released as well should have fucked that guy up pretty bad...luckily he scrapped through enough to give an interview a little while later.
4)"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001
So hold on. He was in his car...heard a screaming noise and had enough time to get OUT of his car and look at the plane as it flew over. This guy must be superman! faster than a speeding 500+ mph airplane! He also used his telescopic vision to notice that the plane's wings were tilting "up and down" all in that time frame of what...TWO seconds? Also, he said that the plane was screaming as it flew over. So what's his name who was cutting the grass obviously didnt hear it scream because he was cutting grass and not running away frenetically like all the other people afewok saw. So the only way for their collective stories to make any sense was that the airplane was screaming then stopped then screamed again in about five seconds....yeh...lets move on.
5
Quote:
)"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 20
A plane with jet fuel in it...crashes into the WTC and explodes ON IMPACT...the SAME plane design hits the pentagon...but yet it caused a huge puff of white smoke which i assume was all the concrete being smashed THEN the fuel exploded. Planes that crash dont explode minutes after impact like some cheesy drag race movie they explode as soon as sparks hit the fuel...which is almost always on impact.
6)
Quote:
"We were the only people, we think, who saw it live," Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," - Ahwatukee Foothill News
What the fuck!? You were the only two people who saw it live?! But what about all the screaming and running people that supposedly saw the plane before it hit? Funny how you should mention the wheels were up though INSIDE the plane...but yet we see wheel wreckage with no other plane insides...hmmm...curiouser and curiouser.
7)
Quote:
)Gary Bauer former Presidential candidate, "I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn?t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." Massachusetts News
So the plane rocked all of the cars QUITE SOME DISTANCE AWAY...but yet didn't smash the windows and some guy was able to dive down to the ground to avoid it and some gardener felt the impact across the street and both luckily managed to survive. The NEW SUPER FRIENDS!!
8)
Quote:
Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." dcmilitary.com November 16, 2001
It's a good thing that the Tower controller saw the whole thing but the entire team required to run an air traffic building didnt. I sure as hell didnt see the interviews from them on television or even a mention.
9)
Quote:
"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] NFPA Journal November 1, 2001
Wait! WHAT?! The plane hit the pentagon and burrowed deep inside. So far in that firefighters had to time correctly 25 mins. of air. With that said...if the plane went in that far...what about the magical debris that landed on the nice neat lawn?
Okay those are a bunch of "reliable witnesses". Anybody notice that most of them have odd-foreign sounding names? I'm not being racist but there are an awful lot of caucasians running around in the photos. But yet we have testimonials from Turkish students and Salvadorean gardeners. Just think of how convenient it would be if someone tried to allocate the source and found out that they "went back home" Who's left after that? A former PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE and several people in charge of certain sectors of government sponsored branches?
Okay people thats about the page right there and what im still trying to say is WHERE IS THE PLANE!?!? It's not enough to throw facts and figures and diagrams of what happened. To alleviate fears and concerns there should be PICTURES to denounce those that want proof. Let's be real, the Bush guys are IDIOTs but they're not dumb. Ever watch a really good hollywood film where the backgrounds are really detailed as if that scene actually happened? Now imagine if the government wanted to do that but only with a budget a HUNDRED times bigger to re-enact it and years to make it come to fruition. Scary shit man.
I don't want to be regarded as a spammer or anything but just this once im going to post this on all three boards because these are real questions that people should have answered and i want feedback. Go ahead tell me im wrong! tell me im an asshole! Tell me im an insensitive clod! just tell me with the proof you need! You dont need complex diagrams just the pictures and this wouldnt be an issue.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages...e_evidence.html
Clearly put, this is a well-researched article to use if i ever wanted to learn about what makes a 757 tick. When you read on and scroll down it gives you a bunch of facts about 757's and if a 757 hit the pentagon, it should look like this this and that. We didn't ask for proof of what a 757 hitting the pentagon would look like, we asked for proof that a 757 hit in the first place. We want to see PICTURES of a PLANE that SUPPOSEDLY hit. The important thing i want people to take into consideration is that there seems to be this whole thing of throwing complicated facts and numbers at people in the hopes that they'll get frustrated and believe whatever guy with a degree tells them. And anyone who does stick with it and understands can't refute it because they forgot that they're not discussing what the wall proportions and trajectory lines should look like but WHERE IS THE PLANE? Even if you take all that and read it, it STILL has points that need to be elaborated. I'll show you...
Look down until you see a picture of the hole. Is it just me or do we live in a wonky reality where huge machines with WINGS punch really neat circular holes into concrete and steel reinforced walls? That's just about the same ideaology of cartoon characters running into a wooden door or glass window and leaving your silhouette perfectly cast as you run away.
Scroll down further, you see all these close-up photos of engine wreckage and so forth. Keeping in mind, that NEVER anywhere in the entire article he mentions at what TIME and at what DATE these photos were taken. Shit, when you think about it they couldve been taken at ANY crash site.
I just noticed this but there's a photo of the "crash site" and it looks like two pieces of wood propped up. The editor uses this photo to say there's an engine piece bottom right. Now that wood may have been propped up as a barricade but i doubt it with all those nifty "CAUTION DO NOT CROSS" yellow ticket tapes around. How delightful that the entire room is devestated but not the wood.
Still with me boys and girls? Let's scroll down further where they try to show you the different lightpoles and cars damaged by the airplane as it passed over the interstate.
First Photo: A lightpole knocked over
Let's keep in mind that a HUGE plane screaming at 573 mph (his stated cruising speed) hit an ALUMINUM lightpole and didnt mangle it to pieces? RIIIGHT.
Second Photo: A taxi with the front window smashed
Okay you can either say that it was hit with the plane or the sonic boom hit it. Let's not even entertain the notion that a plane hit the car and smashed the window. Let's work with the sonic effect. If that did happen then how come only the front window was affected? So what evidence is that? Some guy got drunk and used the plane story as a nice sob story for the insurance company?
Third Photo: A huge pillar of black smoke
How does that prove an AA plane hit the building?
Fourth Photo: Yet another lightpole
No comment. It's exactly the same as the first one
Quote:
The debris field of small chunks of plane witnesses said debris "rained down for minutes after the crash".
Waitaminit! I thought the plane headed in at 500+ mph! I took some physics in high school and that's rather odd that any object projected by forward thrust somehow managed to hit the building...puncture through....explode...and have its debris fall BACKWARD??? onto the lawn? Wait though, that's funny how witnesses saw debris falling down but we just saw a photo of a HUGE plume of smoke. It's a pretty good thing that we don't see any actual aircraft but thanks to a few eagle-eyed witnesses they saw debris falling THROUGH the smoke.
Scroll down more and you see the shredded pepsi can wreckage that i first mentioned. I don't think this is terribly important EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT ITS NOT EVEN SINGED OR MELTED! Truly amazing how when the plane exploded the metal didnt melt at all. Okay maybe it got blew up so fast the metal didnt melt...but if you look on the underside its AWFUL shiny.
Further down, we get the black box arguement. We're reassured that the black boxes WERE recovered and they WERENT played for the sake of all the grieving families. RIIIGHT...just like how the media didnt mind at all replaying footage after footage of people jumping to their deaths from the WTC towers and flashing pictures of captured prisoners right before they were beheaded. C'mon guys, it's been FOUR years now. That just doesnt cut it anymore.
Down some more and this guy's talking about desil engines being impacted and thrown 45 degrees toward the building. Then he says that if it was a bomb or missle then it would have been blown 45 degrees AWAY....how does that make sense? A missle or bomb shot from a plane is going to take the same trajectory as a cruising plane. The explosive repercussions arent going to change. Thats non-sensical.
Down down to a flash picture of a really blurry photo and this guy drawing an outline of a 757 and says that's it there. Okay...a guy draws his own outline and says SEE SEE that PROVES it. The only thing that proves is that this dude has an overactive imagination.
Down some more for more fun filled physics. Yes guys we now know what it should look like if a plane crashed....wheres the plane though?
Great! Some "LIEwitness" testimony!
1
Quote:
)"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001
Okay...let's keep that in mind for later
2
Quote:
)"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002
Wait hold on! He was walking NORTH...the plane came over the crest...he dived down...and then the plane turned around on a dime and hit the WESTERN wall? Also, let's keep in mind that he dived to the ground narrowly missing being hit by the engine though MIRACULOUSLY he didn't get caught in the vacuum suction and he's not deaf. PRAISE JESUS! ITS ONE A THEM DANG FANGLED MIRACLES, MARY LOU!
3
Quote:
)"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001
So let's see, he was across the street...a huge plane crashed FILLED with fuel...made an explosion and he's still concious? Explosions move OUTWARD which means that the energy released as well should have fucked that guy up pretty bad...luckily he scrapped through enough to give an interview a little while later.
4)"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001
So hold on. He was in his car...heard a screaming noise and had enough time to get OUT of his car and look at the plane as it flew over. This guy must be superman! faster than a speeding 500+ mph airplane! He also used his telescopic vision to notice that the plane's wings were tilting "up and down" all in that time frame of what...TWO seconds? Also, he said that the plane was screaming as it flew over. So what's his name who was cutting the grass obviously didnt hear it scream because he was cutting grass and not running away frenetically like all the other people afewok saw. So the only way for their collective stories to make any sense was that the airplane was screaming then stopped then screamed again in about five seconds....yeh...lets move on.
5
Quote:
)"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 20
A plane with jet fuel in it...crashes into the WTC and explodes ON IMPACT...the SAME plane design hits the pentagon...but yet it caused a huge puff of white smoke which i assume was all the concrete being smashed THEN the fuel exploded. Planes that crash dont explode minutes after impact like some cheesy drag race movie they explode as soon as sparks hit the fuel...which is almost always on impact.
6)
Quote:
"We were the only people, we think, who saw it live," Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," - Ahwatukee Foothill News
What the fuck!? You were the only two people who saw it live?! But what about all the screaming and running people that supposedly saw the plane before it hit? Funny how you should mention the wheels were up though INSIDE the plane...but yet we see wheel wreckage with no other plane insides...hmmm...curiouser and curiouser.
7)
Quote:
)Gary Bauer former Presidential candidate, "I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn?t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." Massachusetts News
So the plane rocked all of the cars QUITE SOME DISTANCE AWAY...but yet didn't smash the windows and some guy was able to dive down to the ground to avoid it and some gardener felt the impact across the street and both luckily managed to survive. The NEW SUPER FRIENDS!!
8)
Quote:
Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." dcmilitary.com November 16, 2001
It's a good thing that the Tower controller saw the whole thing but the entire team required to run an air traffic building didnt. I sure as hell didnt see the interviews from them on television or even a mention.
9)
Quote:
"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] NFPA Journal November 1, 2001
Wait! WHAT?! The plane hit the pentagon and burrowed deep inside. So far in that firefighters had to time correctly 25 mins. of air. With that said...if the plane went in that far...what about the magical debris that landed on the nice neat lawn?
Okay those are a bunch of "reliable witnesses". Anybody notice that most of them have odd-foreign sounding names? I'm not being racist but there are an awful lot of caucasians running around in the photos. But yet we have testimonials from Turkish students and Salvadorean gardeners. Just think of how convenient it would be if someone tried to allocate the source and found out that they "went back home" Who's left after that? A former PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE and several people in charge of certain sectors of government sponsored branches?
Okay people thats about the page right there and what im still trying to say is WHERE IS THE PLANE!?!? It's not enough to throw facts and figures and diagrams of what happened. To alleviate fears and concerns there should be PICTURES to denounce those that want proof. Let's be real, the Bush guys are IDIOTs but they're not dumb. Ever watch a really good hollywood film where the backgrounds are really detailed as if that scene actually happened? Now imagine if the government wanted to do that but only with a budget a HUNDRED times bigger to re-enact it and years to make it come to fruition. Scary shit man.
I don't want to be regarded as a spammer or anything but just this once im going to post this on all three boards because these are real questions that people should have answered and i want feedback. Go ahead tell me im wrong! tell me im an asshole! Tell me im an insensitive clod! just tell me with the proof you need! You dont need complex diagrams just the pictures and this wouldnt be an issue.