Hurting Your Country

[Torog]

Hurting Your Country By: Bill O'Reilly for BillOReilly.com
Thursday, Jun 02, 2005 http://billoreilly.com/currentarticle

So how did the USA go from being a beacon of freedom to a champion of the gulag? How exactly did that happen? Well, pull up a chair, here's what happened.

After President Bush won re-election last November, there was much consternation among some powerful anti-Bush Americans. They were stunned that John Kerry lost and feared that if Bush succeeds in his second term, the Democrats would lose again in 2008.

Then came the successful election in Iraq, and the fear on the left multiplied. If Iraq turned out to be a success, Mr. Bush would become a hero. So the need to undermine the Bush administration became more intense than ever. But how to do it? Social Security wasn't emotional enough, particularly for young voters. What could be done to hurt Bush?

Then came the revelation--let's torture the President.

The New York Times had already primed the pump, running more than 50 front-page stories on the abuses at Abu Ghraib. Then came reports from the International Red Cross that more abuse was happening at Guantanamo. The American Civil Liberties Union was already challenging detentions there and so a strategy was sealed: the Bush administration was full of torturers and human rights violators. It was ruining America's reputation throughout the world. Bush was a villain.

It was easy to get that thesis out. The left-wing websites fed anti-Bush columnists like Bob Herbert and Richard Cohen information and the drumbeat intensified. There was torture and abuse and murder all sanctioned by the evil Bush administration. Article after article appeared and soon some TV people followed along. It didn't take long before the torture seed was fully sown.

The Newsweek debacle slowed things down a little, but the anti-Bush press quickly banded together and pronounced that Newsweek's mistake would never have happened if Bush wasn't torturing everybody. I'm sure you read those opinion pieces, as they appeared in liberal newspapers all over the country. The theme and wording was so similar that one person could have written all of those articles. And that was no accident.

All the while this was happening, the President and his crew were doing what they usually do when the press pounds them: nothing. They did not engage the abuse propaganda until it was obvious Newsweek had screwed up. But even that effort was derided by many in The White House press corps, who chided the administration for scolding Newsweek.

Now the torture theme has new momentum. A liberal federal judge in New York City has ruled the Defense Department must release more photos and videos of Abu Ghraib to the ACLU. Of course, that will incite even more hatred against the USA and put our soldiers in more danger but, hey, politics comes before protecting the troops. The anti-Bush people want those pictures almost as badly as Al Jazeera wants them. Another nail in the President's coffin is more important than bodies in real coffins.

If you think I am exaggerating, I assure you I am not. This torture campaign is being run brilliantly, and if Mr. Bush doesn't wise up soon, he will be bloodied just as Lyndon Johnson was in the Vietnam debacle.

The truth is that abuse has occurred, but on a relatively small scale. According to General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the U.S. has detained about 68,000 people since 9/11 (most have been released), and there have been 325 investigations into alleged abuse. At this writing, about 100 cases of wrongdoing have been substantiated. That's not a big number, but it doesn't matter to the anti-Bush cabal, which understands that perception is reality in a nation where "reality programming" is the rage of the day. If you can sell the nation that America is now a war criminal, President Hillary Clinton is a real possibility. So there you have it. For the anti-Bush folks, it is simple: no pain, no gain. Torture is selling and the media is buying. For those of you who are appalled by this analysis, I can only say one thing: sometimes the truth, like torture, hurts.

[amsterdam]

we are winning this fight.

[DonnieDarko]

To fight with words on the battlefield of ideas is what a democracy is all about. But when the weapons are intellectual dishonesty in the hands of the mainstream national media, then the country is hurt, and we need to speak out.

I expect guys like Michael Moore to compare Abu Graib to a Nazi death camp, but when the mainstream media paints such pictures, without facts, then it borders on treason, clearly an abuse of their freeedom of speech.

Liberals and Conservatives should all be outraged.

[amsterdam]

agreed

[BlueCat]

LMAO your source is Bill OLielly!! This guy lies so much they had to set up a website to sort of his lies www.lies.com

Again I have to ask Torog and Amster...with all your love of country and flag waving..why aren't you joining the fight to SAVE your country? And don't give me some pussy ass "I have a felony line" it won't work.. I personally know people in the marines WITH FELONIES. So what is it...why don't you join up...they are begging for people...see... http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=810405
you are letting your country down...you support this war so much you should be fighting it. You need to be there and see it up close. You really need to see that 20 year old kid that came in TUesday with his face burned completely off, his nose gone, both ear drums exploded, Hey they saved an eye. You hear about the US soldiers killed. WHat you aren't hearing are the injuries.
Come on my little yellow arm chair soldiers....serve your country...
CAT

[BlueCat]

we are winning this fight.

No YOU aren't winning anything. Don't brag when you have not done shit...

My father died from Agent Orange, my husband went to Vietnam, my son in law went to Iraq and my son is there now...We have earned the right to speak out. How about you? People like you make me sick. You play with other people lives and have total disreguard for human life itself. You don't lay in bed at night and worry about your child being torn apart. You are disgusting. Shut the fuck up or join you chicken shit little coward.

[amsterdam]

and my great grandfather died from mustard gas in the trenches of world war 1??

hahahah!funny hearing a demorat talk about human life isnt it?lol.

love your "intellectual" quote there at the bottom.chompsky??lol.

[amsterdam]

only a liberal could think that guy is worth quoting.


maybe i should quote coulter,same thing.

[DonnieDarko]

Come on my little yellow arm chair soldiers....serve your country...
CAT

Cat does have a solid point that it's easy to support a war when there is no personal sacrifice. The troops and their families are sacrificing while the rest of us give up nothing. In WW2, there was rationing and mothers were sent to the factories. Hell, even our sports superstars had to serve.

I have no answer to this, and it is off of the topic, but it is something to consider. If we all had sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters, with their lives on the line, would we still be so supportive ??

In WW2 the answer was YES.

[amsterdam]

i donate thousands of dollars of money i WORK for to the troops,specifically to snipers.

my best friend is a sniper in baghdad and i talk to him all the time by e-mail.i still support the war.

[amsterdam]

cats son is in iraq,was he FORCED to go or did he join on his own free will?

[amsterdam]

my family also sends huge care packages to our troops filled with copenhagen,playboys,cool aid,beef jerkey,wet naps,and new water bottles.


we sent the last one about 3 weeks ago.

[DonnieDarko]

my family also sends huge care packages to our troops filled with copenhagen,playboys,cool aid,beef jerkey,wet naps,and new water bottles.


we sent the last one about 3 weeks ago.

Maybe one of those playboys will make it to Cat's son LOL. Seriously, I wasn't questioning your sacrifice, but the country's as a whole.

I have no loved one serving in Iraq. I support the reasons that we went to war, and also realize that the subsequent events could not be predicted and backing out too soon could cost alot of Iraqi civilian lives as well as empowering future terrorists. I hope for a quick stabilization of that country.

[BlueCat]

My aurgument is they seem to get off on this war...others are not bragging about buying bullets or killing people. These two seem to really enjoy the war. They really need to be there. Bottom line is they are afraid but they can talk the bullshit.

No he was not FORCED to go he wants to go to medical school and unless you are a prep school family with a lot of money you can't get in to medical school. He also had friends in Iraq, he wanted to help. He also wants to fly wih the doctors without borders he has to have experience to do that. So that his reason for joining and what is yours for not? You still have not answered me Why are you not serving your country?

[amsterdam]

i am a felon.

[amsterdam]

i made the mistake to be a felon,it was my fault.

when i moved back to the states i tried to join the marines,but because i chose to live my life as an idiot as a teenager i couldnt.so i got involved in another way.

[BlueCat]

Maybe one of those playboys will make it to Cat's son LOL. Seriously, I wasn't questioning your sacrifice, but the country's as a whole.

I have no loved one serving in Iraq. I support the reasons that we went to war, and also realize that the subsequent events could not be predicted and backing out too soon could cost alot of Iraqi civilian lives as well as empowering future terrorists. I hope for a quick stabilization of that country.

and what are those reasons for going to war that you support?

[BlueCat]

GO talk to your recruiter Amster I promise being a felon no longer matters

[BlueCat]

and of course you would have a problem with Chomsky I bet you have the same problem with Howard Zinn.
Comparing Chomsky with ann coulter :rolleyes: your IQ lowers with each post.

Cat <hands Amster some more rope>

[Herbaholic00]

Send them some Bill Cooper tapes.

Peace

[amsterdam]

its the same thing every time,your stupid and im not.lol.

thats why your party has no power and mine runs the world and our country?you probably were one of those sob stories that believed a high voter turnout was gonna help john frenchy and his lap dog trial lawyer.i cant wait for the mid-terms.whatever happened to tom dashle?oh, thats right.

[BlueCat]

WOW thats was a brilliant come back...have some more rope.

[amsterdam]

we used all the rope in november '04.

[DonnieDarko]

and what are those reasons for going to war that you support?

Iraqs failover over many years to abide by the UN resolution for arms inspections, together with the reasonable assumption that unchecked WMDs could likely end up in the hands of Al Quaida.

Also contributing to my stance was that in November 2002, the country (both political parties) were together in favor of military action, if necessary, if Iraq did not comply.

[bhallg2k]

Yeah, ain't it a bitch that liberals wouldn't let the Bush administration get away with practicing torture?

(Just trying to steer this thread back to the point; I'm really tired of talking about Bush's lies for war)

The article says torture isn't as widespread as the media would have you believe, but O'Lielly forgot to mention the countless "detainees" that are sent to places like Egypt where torture is legal and very well-practiced. Wonder how that didn't make it into the piece?

The bastard also rather conveniently forgot that when he was White House Counsel, Attorney General Gonzales justified the use of torture as a means to get information out of "enemy combatants." If the cases of torture are overblown and only being committed at the direction of low-ranking troops, why is advice on torture being given at the highest level?

And lastly, not only is torture not an effective means to interrogate prisoners (any psychiatrist will tell you that a person will say anything to give them relief of extreme duress, even, gasp, lie), it's highly dangerous for American troops abroad. Torture is outlawed by the Geneva Convention because the only way a nation can try to influence how its troops are treated by the enemy is if they treat their own prisoners fairly. Why doesn't Patriot Bill "Felafel" O'Reilly express his outrage over that? Certainly any conservative worth his salt would be livid over anything that could cause harm to our military.

But no, it's the big, bad liberal media's fault. I don't get it.

What the hell is wrong with people that think this way? Since when did it become more of a sin to report a crime than to commit the damn thing?

And fuck anybody who says that's "hurting America" or "being unpatriotic." That's the most insidious bullshit thinkable. Standing around while people trample the Constitution and international law (the ones that protect us too) is the real treason.

[amsterdam]

what torture?

[DonnieDarko]

what torture?

This thread !!!!

I really shouldn't be hanging out on this thread. While I like good healthy debate, based on facts, when we start talking about Bush transporting detainees to Egypt to be tortured, we're not far from space aliens. Or maybe I'm just uninformed.

Anyway, I'll try again some other day.

[bhallg2k]

I really shouldn't be hanging out on this thread. While I like good healthy debate, based on facts, when we start talking about Bush transporting detainees to Egypt to be tortured, we're not far from space aliens. Or maybe I'm just uninformed.

You are.

Groups like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have issued numerous reports, one as late as May 10 of this year, stating the fact that Egypt is the main recipient of detainees around the world. Since torture is forbidden by U.S. law, detainees are sent there for "interrogation."

In fact, that's the main reason U.S. held "enemy combatants" are in Cuba. U.S. law doesn't apply there. And apparently we don't honor the Geneva Convention anywhere.

[pisshead]

do a simple google search for 'cia charter flights' and add the word 'egypt' to that for fun...

[nicholasstanko]

I just want to point out that i support blue cat and look with shame at amsterdam. Why do ou hold onto Bush and his actions so dearly? And for real, this felony shit doesnt cut it any more. Ive got a couple of friends that get hassled by recruiters because if they serve it'll look good when covering up the charge. Felonies arent valid for rejection anymore buddy. And so what if your great grandaddy died in ww1 80 fuckin years ago? if anything he'd rolling in his grave with all the ww1 and ww2 vets who actually sacrificed their lives for a true patriotic purpose. You support bush and the war? well then stop taking the prep school way out with your goddamn care packages. saddle up with your m-16 and blow the face off of a couple more 12 year old unarmed "insurgents".

[Marlboroman]

Well, actually Torog, I know myself and PH have always contended that there are no liberals or conservatives. So I dont think that that is really the case about Hilary. Just means we wouldnt invade China for another 4 years till they can run Jeb.

But nothing would change, I seem to recall a little something called whitewater. And now Bush is being seud by the New York Firemans Wives Association for racketeering.

It is widely accepted that all polititians are scum bags and crooks.

So why is it so hard for you to maybe consider that you are being lied to?

Peace.

[Torog]

LMAO your source is Bill OLielly!! This guy lies so much they had to set up a website to sort of his lies www.lies.com (http://www.lies.com/)

Again I have to ask Torog and Amster...with all your love of country and flag waving..why aren't you joining the fight to SAVE your country? And don't give me some pussy ass "I have a felony line" it won't work.. I personally know people in the marines WITH FELONIES. So what is it...why don't you join up...they are begging for people...see... http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=810405
you are letting your country down...you support this war so much you should be fighting it. You need to be there and see it up close. You really need to see that 20 year old kid that came in TUesday with his face burned completely off, his nose gone, both ear drums exploded, Hey they saved an eye. You hear about the US soldiers killed. WHat you aren't hearing are the injuries.
Come on my little yellow arm chair soldiers....serve your country...
CAT
Howdy Blue Cat,

I have already served my country,in the Navy,and would do so now,if I wasn't too old and disabled..heck..I can still shoot just fine..although a SAW (squad automatic weapon),would probably wear me out pretty quick. As for being up close,I have already experienced Saudi culture up close,and I don't want to,ever again..but I would sure love to take some of em out ! Another front-line I'd like to go to,is much closer and doable,the mexican border...say..do ya reckon the mexican military,would retrieve it's dead,before retreating back into mexico ? Actually,I'd rather wound some of them and capture them,escorting drug shipments across the border,and catch em red-handed on this side of the border.

You see,apparently unlike you,I believe in spreading democracy and freedom..your son,is a liberator of the oppressed..and I'm very proud of him for that,as you should be. Just because you already have your freedom,doesn't mean that you should ignore those who don't have freedom. I have a cousin serving in South Korea,even as we speak,and I worry for his safety too. My family has fought in every war and conflict,since the birth of America and will continue to do so in the future.

Have a good one....

[Torog]

Yeah, ain't it a bitch that liberals wouldn't let the Bush administration get away with practicing torture?

(Just trying to steer this thread back to the point; I'm really tired of talking about Bush's lies for war)

The article says torture isn't as widespread as the media would have you believe, but O'Lielly forgot to mention the countless "detainees" that are sent to places like Egypt where torture is legal and very well-practiced. Wonder how that didn't make it into the piece?

The bastard also rather conveniently forgot that when he was White House Counsel, Attorney General Gonzales justified the use of torture as a means to get information out of "enemy combatants." If the cases of torture are overblown and only being committed at the direction of low-ranking troops, why is advice on torture being given at the highest level?

And lastly, not only is torture not an effective means to interrogate prisoners (any psychiatrist will tell you that a person will say anything to give them relief of extreme duress, even, gasp, lie), it's highly dangerous for American troops abroad. Torture is outlawed by the Geneva Convention because the only way a nation can try to influence how its troops are treated by the enemy is if they treat their own prisoners fairly. Why doesn't Patriot Bill "Felafel" O'Reilly express his outrage over that? Certainly any conservative worth his salt would be livid over anything that could cause harm to our military.

But no, it's the big, bad liberal media's fault. I don't get it.

What the hell is wrong with people that think this way? Since when did it become more of a sin to report a crime than to commit the damn thing?

And f*ck anybody who says that's "hurting America" or "being unpatriotic." That's the most insidious bullshit thinkable. Standing around while people trample the Constitution and international law (the ones that protect us too) is the real treason.
Howdy bhall,

The Geneva Convention,only applies to combatants wearing a uniform..not terrorists running around in civilian clothes and not a member of any armed forces.

So..now that we've eliminated the Geneva protections..why is it that you don't believe that terrorists should be tortured ? It takes only one terrorist,to detonate a wmd..it therefore behooves us,to use torture because of the need to stop a terrorist's plan in it's initial stages,because just one terrorist,can murder a million people..it only took 19 of em,to murder over 3000 people,on 9/11/01.

It seems to me,that no matter if it's a murderer,child molester,rapist or terrorist,y'all liberals are always more worried about their rights,than the rights of their victims...can you explain why that's so ?

You already have your freedom..why is it that you deny others,their freedom ? Why do you feel that it's wrong to liberate others from oppression ?

In the eyes of the terrorists,you are helping their cause and I'm sure that they are grateful for that too. In my eye's,you are aiding and abetting the enemy..and that makes you treasonous.

Have a good one...

[Torog]

Well, actually Torog, I know myself and PH have always contended that there are no liberals or conservatives. So I dont think that that is really the case about Hilary. Just means we wouldnt invade China for another 4 years till they can run Jeb.

But nothing would change, I seem to recall a little something called whitewater. And now Bush is being seud by the New York Firemans Wives Association for racketeering.

It is widely accepted that all polititians are scum bags and crooks.

So why is it so hard for you to maybe consider that you are being lied to?

Peace.
Howdy Marlboroman,

Well..to me,a sure sign of a liberal,is that they don't like being labeled a liberal.

Liberalism and Conservatism,are 2 distinct and opposite,mind-sets...studies have been done,that show that folks with a liberal mind-set,tend to be afflicted with more mental illnesses,than conservative folks,because liberals are slaves to their desires and impulses..whereas conservatives put aside their emotional impulses,and do the mature,responsible thing.

What do you think that I'm being lied to about ?

So far,we've managed to liberate over 50 million folks and establish democracy and freedom,where before..there was none. Apologize for that !

Have a good one....

[nicholasstanko]

well torog i think i can safel surmise that you've been deprived of one too many field rations. How the hell can you sit there and smugly refer to the geneva conventions applying to combatants in uniforms? you must have forgotten that the U.S. army wiped out their forces and are now going after people who know nothing about whats really going on except for the bombs that keep falling. so now its right to torture people and disgrace their religion just because they dont have nice crisp uniforms with shiny badges? fuck you torog. that's really fucking pretentious to assume that the iraqis that are fighting and dying know the full scale of what this war is about because we all know what wonderful and reliable media coverage they recieve. we have cnn and msnbc and a whole pile of first-world news sources and most people still dont know whats going on.
you sit there with your redneck "howdies" and quote others about how you and your family served in the military. you say you believe in spreading freedom but you never truly say you believe being in iraq doing whats being done right now is spreading that same freedom.

It's going to be a mighty sad day when american lives are in danger and their families beg the terrorists to show them the same mercy we've shown them. what happens then, torog? we torture civilians in retaliation in the name of freedom?


Later, y'all.

[amsterdam]

try to join the marines as a felon and see what happens

[nicholasstanko]

shaddap amsterdam

[Psycho4Bud]

Reasons to go to war?

How bout not abiding to U.N. resolutions...in which we went to the U.N. about this how many times..17? How many chances does all the libs buddy Sadamm get?

Maybe it was paying the families of Martyrs $25,000 for having body bombs strapped up for killing Jews and infedels.....you know...people like you!

The WMD's? Maybe...just maybe..if Turkey would have let the 4th division through instead of playing a political game of debt forgiveness at the last second, we could have intercepted some of this material leaving the country. OH NO! But Kerry said there was no WMD's....oh yea, that was after he said there was!

Killing of thousands of Kurds and Shiite's. Who gives a fuck...right masta libs!

It just kills some of these poor mind diluted libs that Iraq is making great strides in creating a democracy. GW was right? OHHHH NOOOO Mr. Bill! How can he be right and that murdering, rapist Kennedy in good ol' Mass be soooo very wrong. Ya know, using this murdering, rapist, as a role model will definately stunt all you libs intellectual growth!

By the way, I have a son in the service so I guess I to can speak allll the shit I want. VERY proud of him and if he comes home in a body bag I surely won't disgrace his name or effort by turning into one of these whining anti-government libs! :D

Here's a portrait for all you fine libs! NEVER FORGET!!!!

[Marlboroman]

Howdy Marlboroman,

Well..to me,a sure sign of a liberal,is that they don't like being labeled a liberal.

Liberalism and Conservatism,are 2 distinct and opposite,mind-sets...studies have been done,that show that folks with a liberal mind-set,tend to be afflicted with more mental illnesses,than conservative folks,because liberals are slaves to their desires and impulses..whereas conservatives put aside their emotional impulses,and do the mature,responsible thing.

What do you think that I'm being lied to about ?

So far,we've managed to liberate over 50 million folks and establish democracy and freedom,where before..there was none. Apologize for that !

Have a good one....


LOL, when both parties have the same agenda how can you possibly seperate the 2. and that may be YOUR defineing factor for what makes a so called liberal, but in reality there is so much more to the big picture than you even bother to look at.

Aside from that, your so called liberation of 50 million people only gave these people a new perception of what it should be like.

And if it goes your way it will be our peception of what freedom is. So after the world is all on the same page as far as freedom and the way it is perceived goes....

Who will you compare yourself to then?

will you finally start to care that your rights are being taken only after you have no one to compare yourself to? Only after you can actually tell yourself that the rag headed, sand trodders have the same rights as you?

(im not raceist but I have a feeling you might be, so i threw in some slang that might appeal to you)

Seems that the biggest argument for so called concervatives is that we have it so good here. But you wouldnt know how good you have it here if you didnt have others to compare to.

So think about that for a sec, By makeing the world on one even scale of good and bad, those at power are then free to manipulate the system world wide in good or bad ways as they see fit. You wont know the difference because you wont have anyone to compare to.

Also your children will grow up in this world and will know no other form of freedom than that which is being shown to them.

So, as your actively support the under mineing of our rights, your children will never even know they are gone.

And as you teach your children that the government is good and doing the right things and is protecting us, and that its anti american to disagree and voice your opinion to that extent.

You are then raiseing your children to support a facist state, and they will know no other form of right or wrong as goverment goes because even their own father has swallowed so much of the cool aid that he can not be brought back to life.

Further more, I am not sick, and mental illness doesnt have anything to do with being liberal or conservative. That sounds like a Bill O'Rielly talking point memo to me anyway.

There is a new movement out there now that says deppression should be treated as a mental illness, and that is total horse shit. Treating it as a mental illness means treating the symptoms instead of the cause, means prescribeing more and more anti-deppressants to the american people.

Ill break it down for you, before you out right call me full of shit you should research what I am about to tell you, for yourself. Talk to a few phycologists about these next few statement..


Depression is a direct by-product of stress.

Stress is a direct by-product of anger.

Anger is a direct by-product of fear.


These are researched truths taught to drug and alchohal thearapists and used in NA, and AA.

It's proven that if you ask yourself what you are afraid of when you are angry the fear and anger will pass when you confront the fear.

OK now that that is said, why do you think we have so many depressed people in the US?

If I listen to you its because they are all "Liberals".

It couldnt be that maybe the fear campaighn has anything to do with it? could it? The fear campaighn on the media everyday as millions watch couldnt have anything to do with the rise in deppression in millions of americans?

And why should I have to think of a lie you might have been told? Dont be so trusting and ask that question to yourself.

I trust you know what 3 card monty is, and you know that it isnt possible to win at it, its a con, and the men running it are stealing from the players. In fact they are crooks, scum bags, liars, and cheats.

Go figure, thats a publically accepted definition of a polititian too.

So why on earth would anyone, trust these men to tell the truth all the time?

Thats a question I ask you Torog.

Peace.

[Marlboroman]

Howdy Blue Cat,

I have already served my country,in the Navy,and would do so now,if I wasn't too old and disabled..heck..I can still shoot just fine..although a SAW (squad automatic weapon),would probably wear me out pretty quick. As for being up close,I have already experienced Saudi culture up close,and I don't want to,ever again..but I would sure love to take some of em out ! Another front-line I'd like to go to,is much closer and doable,the mexican border...say..do ya reckon the mexican military,would retrieve it's dead,before retreating back into mexico ? Actually,I'd rather wound some of them and capture them,escorting drug shipments across the border,and catch em red-handed on this side of the border.

You see,apparently unlike you,I believe in spreading democracy and freedom..your son,is a liberator of the oppressed..and I'm very proud of him for that,as you should be. Just because you already have your freedom,doesn't mean that you should ignore those who don't have freedom. I have a cousin serving in South Korea,even as we speak,and I worry for his safety too. My family has fought in every war and conflict,since the birth of America and will continue to do so in the future.

Have a good one....

Well here is something that we agree on Torog, we should be closeing our borders.

So tell me why our armed forces are off in the dessert freeing people that your would love to shoot a few of, while our borders go unprotected?

Seeing as your family has been fighting wars in every generation, it isnt a surprise to me that you think the way you do.

My family just like yours has had many generations of soldiers, I myself Honorably Discharged in 96' from the Navy.

I can tell you that looking at my own family and the character traits that are passed down from member to member. You and I were both more or less bred to be soldiers.

It's no secret that these men and women have disassociated themselves from emotion in order to fight. And that carries home to the children, and their children then learn to disassociate as well.

Because as many have said, once its turned on, they dont teach you how to turn it off. And they dont want to, If they teach you how to turn it off you wont pass that dissassociation to your children. And you will kill the key factor that keeps you thinking the way you do.

Use fear as a control.

Its all over the military, and in the battle feild it is what is needed, BUT, your kids dont need it.

And the long term effects of fear is deppression, unless you can effectivly disassociate your self from it.


But dont take my word for any of this, go talk to a proffesional as I have.

Find out the truth for yourself, but not even considering another side of the story is just you disassociateing yourself from the fear, in the form of denial.

Peace.

[BlueCat]

OK I will attempt a conversation with you but I don't really expect you to understand in that I find your remarks about Mexico and its border to be ignorant and racist. In the 21st century if you have not even come to grasp with racism I doubt very seriously you will be able to absorb anything on foreign policy or why this war is SO WRONG...
Your words â?�freedomâ?� and â?�democracyâ?� -- are the words BUSH used more than 40 times in an 1,800-word address --
it has nothing to do with FREEDOM those are the SHEEPLE words BUSH USES for people like YOU. Little words you can understand that will feed your little egos and you can go around waving your flag and pretend you are doing something. When the truth is you are being used. The Bush Administration is playing war games. They have no respect for human life. They never have had it is simply a way to make money.

FREEDOM is not what happened in Iraq. The Iraqis had no choice, because it was the U.S. government that decided to 'liberate' it. Now, they're faced with what could be a full-blown civil war. Bush thinks it's going to work out, but most experts don't agree.â?� His own military has told him it is not working. It won't matter one way or the other for Bush. It is no skin off his back. He makes money and he sure won't be fighting or sending his spoiled little brats to fight.
The rhetoric about the United States serving as a beacon for democracy and human freedom doesn't jibe well with the resentment toward the U.S. that is building around the globe and with the chaos that has ensued in Iraq . None of this makes sense to anyone with a brain. You cannot force democracy it goes against the very nature of the word!!!

All you have to do to see how wrong this administrations is and how much it is at odds with its so called freedom march and with President Bushâ??s pledge to "end tyranny in our world" is to look at the United Statesâ?? role as the worldâ??s leading arms exporting nation...

The United States transfers more weapons and military services than any other country in the world. Between 1992 and 2003, the United States sold $177.5 billion in arms to foreign nations. In 2003 alone, the Pentagon and State Department delivered $5.7 billion in weaponry to countries which can ill afford advanced weaponryâ??nations in the developing world saddled with debt and struggling with poverty.
In 2003, the United States transferred weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in active conflicts. From Angola, Chad and Ethiopia, to Colombia, Pakistan and the Philippines, transfers through the two largest U.S. arms sales programs (Foreign Military Sales and Commercial Sales) to these conflict nations totaled nearly $1 billion in 2003, with the vast bulk of the dollar volume going to Israel ($845.6 million).

In order to gain support in this war on Iraq from surrounding UNDEMOCRATIC countries the US paid them off with weapons...many of these very countries were our enemies...many had army camps just for training to kill Americans but now we sell them arms and they are our friends?

In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks and the run-up to the war the biggest increases in dollar terms went to countries that suddenly became U.S. allies in the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, including Jordan ($525 million ), Afghanistan ($191 million increase), Pakistan ($224 million increase) and Bahrain ($90 million increase). and how about the Philippines, where the United States had just been kicked out. we lost our military base there, or have you forgotten that?The number of countries receiving FMF assistance nearly doubled coming in at a requested $4.5 billion for 2006.

That is OUR TAX MONEY.

Oh but I can hear you now...so what we are selling arms everywhere...yee haaaw well first you would have to move yourself out of the center of the universe long enough to think about the people in the countries we are selling to...

U.S. arms transfers end up fueling conflict, arming human rights abusers, or falling into the hands of U.S. adversaries. As in the case of recent decisions to provide new F-16 fighter planes to Pakistan, while pledging comparable high-tech military hardware to its rival India, U.S. arms sometimes go to both sides in long brewing conflicts, ratcheting up tensions and giving both sides better firepower with which to kill each other. Where is the humanity there?Far from serving as a force for security and stability, U.S. weapons sales frequently serve to empower unstable, undemocratic regimes to the detriment of U.S. and global security.

The greatest danger emanating U.S. arms transfers and military aid programs is not in the numbers, but in the potential impacts on the image, credibility and security of the United States. Arming repressive regimes in all corners of the globe while simultaneously proclaiming a campaign for democracy and against tyranny undermines the credibility of the United States in international forums and makes it harder to hold other nations to high standards of conduct on human rights and other key issues.
Can you grasp this concept? Is it sinking in?
Arming undemocratic governments all too often helps to enhance their power, frequently fueling conflict or enabling human rights abuses in the process.
OK but then you really don't care about other countries as evidenced in your MEXICO comments so maybe you could care about our soldiers in all too many cases, U.S. arms and military technology can end up in the hands of U.S. adversaries, as happened in the 1980s in Iraq and Panama, as well as with the right-wing fundamentalist "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan, many of whom are now supporters of al-Qaeda. The very weapons used against US soldiers in Afghanistan were sold to Al Qaeda by the US.

The Bush Family has always made money selling arms as have ALL of Bush's "think tank" members. Cheney, rumsfield,wolfowitz etc..

one only has to look back historically to see how their methods have failed and to see just how much more dangerous the world is for us all thanks to the present administration. 1) Washington transferred weaponry to successive South Vietnamese dictatorships throughout the 1960s and 70s

U.S.-origin arms were stolen from Southern barracks and after the fall of Saigon in 1975, North Vietnamese troops took possession of huge weapons caches.

2) Massive military assistance that the U.S. provided to the dictatorship of Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlevi in Iran was seized in the 1979 Islamic fundamentalist coup, giving the Ayatollah Khomeini control of a fleet of F-14 fighter planes and other high-tech weaponry.

3) The last seven times the United States has sent troops into conflict in substantial numbers: in Iraq (2003-present), Afghanistan (2001-present), former Yugoslavia (1998), Haiti (1994), Somalia (1992), Iraq (1990) and Panama (1989); they faced adversaries with weapons or military technology "Made in the USA

In the mean time contractors have Thrived Under Bush Policies: Contracts to the Pentagonâ??s top ten contractors jumped from $46 billion in 2001 to $80 billion in 2003, an increase of nearly 75%. Halliburtonâ??s contracts jumped more than nine times their 2001 levels by 2003, from $400 million to $3.9 billion. Northrop Grummanâ??s contracts doubled, from $5.2 billion to $11.1 billion, over the same time frame; and the nationâ??s largest weapons contractor, Lockheed Martin, saw a 50% increase, from $14.7 billion to $21.9 billion.
Gee I wonder who the top stock holders are in these companies? If you care going to support this war creditably you will have to do better than coin phrases like FREEDOM absorbed thru the TV...and if anyone is aiding the terrorist it is YOU by supporting this administration as evidence above.
Open your eyes you are being played for a fool.

and have a nice day.
Cat

[Psycho4Bud]

FREEDOM is not what happened in Iraq. The Iraqis had no choice, because it was the U.S. government that decided to 'liberate' it. Now, they're faced with what could be a full-blown civil war. Bush thinks it's going to work out, but most experts don't agree.â?� His own military has told him it is not working. It won't matter one way or the other for Bush. It is no skin off his back. He makes money and he sure won't be fighting or sending his spoiled little brats to fight.


No Freedom? I guess the open elections was a big hoax put on by Fox and GW.

Full blown civil war? 20% of that country is Sunni and out of that 20% it is a smaller percentage involved in the chaos. Zarqawi is a Jordanian....I thought civil war consisted of a countries actual residents going at it, not a groop of uneducated Jihadists from different countries. Get a grip, things are booming in the Kurdish north and also in the Shiite south.

Insurgency is a part of history. Look at the south after the civil war in the U.S. There were people riding horseback wearing the ears of people around their necks if they didn't agree that everyone was entitled to at least one slave. Guess we should have left the south alone....we created a "conflict" by not letting them suseed from the Union.
How about Germany post WW2? The former SS formed a group called the wolfpack that killed many people in the same fasion for cooperating with the allied forces. Guess we should have let Hitler maintain Germany.

Things are SOOOOOO bad in all of Iraq? read this!
http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2005/04/good-news-from-iraq-part-25.html

There are 25 excellant updates telling of the progress made by the Iraqi people. Of course, some would like to believe that the murdering of Kurds and Shiites. The raping of school girls by Sadamms boys. Paying for martyrs. ETC...This was ALOT better than GWs war.

[Marlboroman]

Blue, your title of your reply in YOUR A FOOL.

And by definition thats exactly what Torog is.

Sadly, it is all too many times one doesnt figure out they are a fool until the worst has already come and gone.

fool ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fl)
n.
One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
One who acts unwisely on a given occasion: I was a fool to have quit my job.
One who has been tricked or made to appear ridiculous; a dupe: They made a fool of me by pretending I had won.
Informal. A person with a talent or enthusiasm for a certain activity: a dancing fool; a fool for skiing.
A member of a royal or noble household who provided entertainment, as with jokes or antics; a jester.

[BlueCat]

It seems the rest of the country does not agree with you and for every site you find saying Iraq is doing good and democracy is spreading I can find 10 more saying it isn't. I go by what I hear from the people I know that are there now. There has been more violience in last last month than in the last year. THere have been more US soldiers injuries in the last month than in than a year. You only hear of soldiers deaths on TV not the blown off arms legs and faces.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/03/iraq.poll/ or
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&month=June2005&file=World_News20050604448.xml or
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/03/AR2005060300847.html or

12,000 Dead in Iraqi Guerrilla War
Rate of Killing Same as Under Saddam

According to a recent United Nations report, nearly 50 academics have been assassinated in Iraq over the past two years. A US official says the number is closer to 100, but added that the pattern of the killings is not clear, with "terrorism, general thuggery, pay back, and de-Baathification" all playing a role.

The British military in southern Iraq is making plans to withdraw to bases and ultimately to depart the country.....

Saudi Arabia is worried about radicals from the kingdom who slipped into Iraq to fight the Americans, coming back to Saudi Arabia to destabilize it....

Wow sounds like we really have things under control.

[BlueCat]

and as for the torture....Last time I checked we were members of the United Nations. We signed an international agreement to BAN TORTURE of any kind. Maybe you should read it...
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html#Article%201.1
I suppose honor and keeping ones word mean nothing to you as well.

[BlueCat]

Sadly, it is all too many times one doesnt figure out they are a fool until the worst has already come and gone.

<raises her glass to Marlboroman>...well said
Proud to be on the same thread with you and Nicholass <waves>.....thanks for your input. :)

[BlueCat]

And Psycho if you are going to post links as to how well things are going please use a reputable source...not a blogspot. I could make a blog spot that says it will rain gold coins in three weeks SO WHAT...

[nicholasstanko]

No Freedom? I guess the open elections was a big hoax put on by Fox and GW.

Full blown civil war? 20% of that country is Sunni and out of that 20% it is a smaller percentage involved in the chaos. Zarqawi is a Jordanian....I thought civil war consisted of a countries actual residents going at it, not a groop of uneducated Jihadists from different countries. Get a grip, things are booming in the Kurdish north and also in the Shiite south.

Insurgency is a part of history. Look at the south after the civil war in the U.S. There were people riding horseback wearing the ears of people around their necks if they didn't agree that everyone was entitled to at least one slave. Guess we should have left the south alone....we created a "conflict" by not letting them suseed from the Union.
How about Germany post WW2? The former SS formed a group called the wolfpack that killed many people in the same fasion for cooperating with the allied forces. Guess we should have let Hitler maintain Germany.

Things are SOOOOOO bad in all of Iraq? read this!
http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2005/04/good-news-from-iraq-part-25.html

There are 25 excellant updates telling of the progress made by the Iraqi people. Of course, some would like to believe that the murdering of Kurds and Shiites. The raping of school girls by Sadamms boys. Paying for martyrs. ETC...This was ALOT better than GWs war.



How is it that every arguement made by the "liberals" on this board in turn weakens the conservative response with every post? I checked out your link and my my my....i didnt see ANYTHING to do with casualties and destruction of the country on an environmental level. what i DID see though were reports about how much money was being invested to make profits for rich business men. oh but wait a minute! they're IRAQI businessmen so i guess that makes everything okay. And what's this about saddam's rape rooms and all that? Yeah it happened...but didnt we already jump in and kick him out and kill his two sons for good measure? i highly doubt that insurgents hate america so much that they would continue to suicide bomb people even with no u.s. forces occupying the country. oh but i forgot! war's pretty expensive so i guess those oil pipelines will just have to do. and by golly isnt it a great coincidence that the man leading the invasion forces owns oil companies as well?

It's amazing how you have that albert einstein quote but yet you're content to do nothing about the mistreatment of this war and give plaudits to the man who only cares about making money for his own family.

[pisshead]

i wouldn't too much stock in the UN, which is beyond corrupt. it's a magnet for corruption...a giant global bureaucracy...even the UN charter says the gracious UN gives you your rights, and they can take them away if they want to...

and the UN isn't one to talk about torture either...it sounds all well and good and happy...but it's just another stepping stone for all countries to give up sovereignty and property rights to some global assholes who want to control the world.

i think countries are perfectly capable of interacting without it.

[Psycho4Bud]

It seems the rest of the country does not agree with you and for every site you find saying Iraq is doing good and democracy is spreading I can find 10 more saying it isn't. I go by what I hear from the people I know that are there now. There has been more violience in last last month than in the last year. THere have been more US soldiers injuries in the last month than in than a year. You only hear of soldiers deaths on TV not the blown off arms legs and faces.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/03/iraq.poll/ or
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&month=June2005&file=World_News20050604448.xml or
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/03/AR2005060300847.html or

12,000 Dead in Iraqi Guerrilla War
Rate of Killing Same as Under Saddam

According to a recent United Nations report, nearly 50 academics have been assassinated in Iraq over the past two years. A US official says the number is closer to 100, but added that the pattern of the killings is not clear, with "terrorism, general thuggery, pay back, and de-Baathification" all playing a role.

The British military in southern Iraq is making plans to withdraw to bases and ultimately to depart the country.....

Saudi Arabia is worried about radicals from the kingdom who slipped into Iraq to fight the Americans, coming back to Saudi Arabia to destabilize it....

Wow sounds like we really have things under control.

Pattern of killings not clear: No leadership with an ultimate goal in mind? Sounds like a bunch of bangers...you know...like we have in different slums in the U.S.

British withdrawl to bases: Gives me the impression that there are enough trained Iraqi military in the area to take care of matters themselves. Remember now, I did state that the Shiites in THAT region are working towards the rebuild instead of the insurgency. Thanks for verifying that!

Saudi Arabia worried about getting thugs back: Are you stating that a group of uneducated Jihad Saudis constitute an Iraq civil war? Let the Saudis deal with their own trash. At least the mean ol' U.S. gave forwarning as to bombings. Saudi trash strapping on a bomb to blow up defenseless school kids is NOT a precidence for civil war.

Things are better now than in Sadamm times except for the area predominent in U.S. forces which is the Sunni Triangle. Remember the Sunnis past...Sadamms chosen people while the other 80% of the country got shit on.

[BlueCat]

THere will always be corruption...just read the BCCI affair....the concept of the UN is needed...it is suppose to stop countries from repeating the holocaust. It is a way for all counties to take part in the peace process. Anytime there is that many countires and that many individuals involved there will be corruption that is no reason to write off the UN all together, no more than you write off the entire US constitution because of the faults of a few governmental hacks.

[Psycho4Bud]

How is it that every arguement made by the "liberals" on this board in turn weakens the conservative response with every post? I checked out your link and my my my....i didnt see ANYTHING to do with casualties and destruction of the country on an environmental level. what i DID see though were reports about how much money was being invested to make profits for rich business men. oh but wait a minute! they're IRAQI businessmen so i guess that makes everything okay. And what's this about saddam's rape rooms and all that? Yeah it happened...but didnt we already jump in and kick him out and kill his two sons for good measure? i highly doubt that insurgents hate america so much that they would continue to suicide bomb people even with no u.s. forces occupying the country. oh but i forgot! war's pretty expensive so i guess those oil pipelines will just have to do. and by golly isnt it a great coincidence that the man leading the invasion forces owns oil companies as well?

It's amazing how you have that albert einstein quote but yet you're content to do nothing about the mistreatment of this war and give plaudits to the man who only cares about making money for his own family.

So the insurgents would leave if we did? More Iraqi women and children are killed by insurgents bombs than U.S. personnel. Maybe thats why Moslems throughout the middle east are denouncing the current so called Jihad.

As for the oil. I guess GW owns the Canadian oil firm that was just awarded exploration rights in Northern Iraq. And who is the Minister of Oil for Iraq right now...the same dude that Jordan and the U.S. would like to find under a rock. Sounds like Iraq is running their own show.

[Stedric]

I stopped trusting American media coverage of the War in Iraq at about the same time I heard them use the phrase "precision-guided cluster bombs". Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

Peace and love, and failing that tolerance.

[BlueCat]

So the insurgents would leave if we did? More Iraqi women and children are killed by insurgents bombs than U.S. personnel. Maybe thats why Moslems throughout the middle east are denouncing the current so called Jihad.

As for the oil. I guess GW owns the Canadian oil firm that was just awarded exploration rights in Northern Iraq. And who is the Minister of Oil for Iraq right now...the same dude that Jordan and the U.S. would like to find under a rock. Sounds like Iraq is running their own show.

What does saying Bush does not have Canadian oil stock prove? It only reinforces the fact that big oil has moved in and they are dividing up Iraq.
as far as the Minister of oil..this position changes so much last I checked it was Ibrahim Bahr al-Uloum Most in Baghdad fear Uloum will support the early privatisation of Iraq's huge oil reserves to US and other foreign oil companies. He attended pre-war meetings of the US State Department's future of Iraq project which recommended foreign firms be invited to develop the fuel..

so whats your point?

[Psycho4Bud]

What does saying Bush does not have Canadian oil stock prove? It only reinforces the fact that big oil has moved in and they are dividing up Iraq.
as far as the Minister of oil..this position changes so much last I checked it was Ibrahim Bahr al-Uloum Most in Baghdad fear Uloum will support the early privatisation of Iraq's huge oil reserves to US and other foreign oil companies. He attended pre-war meetings of the US State Department's future of Iraq project which recommended foreign firms be invited to develop the fuel..

so whats your point?

Now Bush may have Canadian oil stock. Kind of grasping for straws aren't we? And the last I heard Ahmad Chalabi was Minister of Oil. Now tell me, whats the difference if post war Iraq has U.S. and Canadian oil firms as to the pre-war where it was French and Russian. MAYBE thats why the U.N. couldn't see its way to appoving the invasion. Can't be! The U.S. is the only oil pirate in the world with self interests prevailing. Frenchies and Ruskies wouldn't NEVER be involved in dirty dealings!

My point? Nicholass...stated"i highly doubt that insurgents hate america so much that they would continue to suicide bomb people even with no u.s. forces occupying the country. oh but i forgot! war's pretty expensive so i guess those oil pipelines will just have to do. and by golly isnt it a great coincidence that the man leading the invasion forces owns oil companies as well?" Point stated. :D

[BlueCat]

Grasping at straws? You brought up Canadian oil...I said it does not really have anything to do with what we are talking about so again ????? No one said he had any stock..and NO you are wrong AGAIN Ahmad Chalabi was the oil prime M he stepped down it is Uloum the position changes all the time and is of little importance none of that matters...it makes no difference what country is dividing up Iraq the point is it is being done at the cost of American lives.

[nicholasstanko]

That was a prett listless and jejune retort. What's wrong Psycho4bud? You're argeuments just keep getting weaker. Cmon man, let's actually PROGRESS with these discussions. You and I both know that britain isnt withdrawing because everything's peachy keen. it's because their people are one of the biggest opposers of this war and the blair administration cant keep up with it after barely winning the election. I'd love to see your reaction if you had to pray every night in the hopes that you could at least wake up the next morning alive. i'd also love to see your reaction if you had to choose between unknown occupying forces that would gladly shoot you like a dog if it meant making sure you didnt have a bomb or your neighbours and friends that youve known since childhood that are somehow supposed to be the "enemy". I just LOVE your rationale of what freedom is. Real glad people like you are on my side when it comes time to advocate why people smoking pot are so wonderful and abhor violence and ignorance. why dont you just stop wasting time and snort up some coke with your pal ol' Dubya.

[nicholasstanko]

Now Bush may have Canadian oil stock. Kind of grasping for straws aren't we? And the last I heard Ahmad Chalabi was Minister of Oil. Now tell me, whats the difference if post war Iraq has U.S. and Canadian oil firms as to the pre-war where it was French and Russian. MAYBE thats why the U.N. couldn't see its way to appoving the invasion. Can't be! The U.S. is the only oil pirate in the world with self interests prevailing. Frenchies and Ruskies wouldn't NEVER be involved in dirty dealings!

My point? Nicholass...stated"i highly doubt that insurgents hate america so much that they would continue to suicide bomb people even with no u.s. forces occupying the country. oh but i forgot! war's pretty expensive so i guess those oil pipelines will just have to do. and by golly isnt it a great coincidence that the man leading the invasion forces owns oil companies as well?" Point stated. :D


Right. So because those other countries would probably do it or have done it in the past, it makes perfect sense to do it too. The sandbox mentality really must be your strongest personality trait. You must be a real lady-killer. Probably not, but at least we know you support other people that kill ladies. Do you actually smoke weed before you post or do you forget to toke up until AFTER you make yourself look like a dolt?

[Psycho4Bud]

That was a prett listless and jejune retort. What's wrong Psycho4bud? You're argeuments just keep getting weaker. Cmon man, let's actually PROGRESS with these discussions. You and I both know that britain isnt withdrawing because everything's peachy keen. it's because their people are one of the biggest opposers of this war and the blair administration cant keep up with it after barely winning the election. I'd love to see your reaction if you had to pray every night in the hopes that you could at least wake up the next morning alive. i'd also love to see your reaction if you had to choose between unknown occupying forces that would gladly shoot you like a dog if it meant making sure you didnt have a bomb or your neighbours and friends that youve known since childhood that are somehow supposed to be the "enemy". I just LOVE your rationale of what freedom is. Real glad people like you are on my side when it comes time to advocate why people smoking pot are so wonderful and abhor violence and ignorance. why dont you just stop wasting time and snort up some coke with your pal ol' Dubya.

We are not occupying forces. At any time the Iraqi Gov. could say goodbye and we would leave. Hell, they just requested through your precious U.N. that the U.S. and Britian remain longer than initially intended. THEY REQUESTED IT!

If my neighbors and friends were blowing up my kids with a strap on bomb damn right they would be my enemy fast!

If Dubya offered a line...hell, most of the people on this board would probably say thank you very much...why should I tell ol' boy no?
As for toking....I've been tokin' for the last 30 years and like all races, creeds, etc....we have our assholes too. Ain't that right..nicholasstanko. :D

[Psycho4Bud]

Right. So because those other countries would probably do it or have done it in the past, it makes perfect sense to do it too. The sandbox mentality really must be your strongest personality trait. You must be a real lady-killer. Probably not, but at least we know you support other people that kill ladies. Do you actually smoke weed before you post or do you forget to toke up until AFTER you make yourself look like a dolt?


Now I support lady killers because I support our troops and policies in Iraq? Thank you for that one! And I'm the dolt? When a peson is cornered, human instict is to lash out....you insult me...people go to war...the only difference between you and hostile countries is that they don't have the privilage of lashing out crap across a monitor where it is nice and safe to hide. Now what makes you the great humanitarian....seems to me your on the same wave length as most of our leaders.

[makor01]

Nich your arguement is weak and too common. The US is not an occupying force, thats actually against international law.

[BlueCat]

The psycho said: If Dubya offered a line...hell, most of the people on this board would probably say thank you very much...why should I tell ol' boy no?

BECAUSE since he has been president he has built more prisons and tightened the drug laws even more...it is very hypocritical don't you think?

then Psycho said: We are not occupying forces. At any time the Iraqi Gov. could say goodbye and we would leave


HAHAHAHA can you back up that BS?
Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout even though they fear that could put them in greater danger, according to a new USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm

Six in every 10 Iraqis said US troops in Iraq had acted badly, and 71 percent said they saw the soldiers mostly as occupiers,<----- a new poll released on Wednesday showed.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-04/29/content_1447087.htm

"The more the occupation is seen as taking steps that harm the civilians and the population, the greater the ranks of the resistance grow," said Mr Annan.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1205632,00.html

New Iraq poll: US seen as an 'occupying force' <-------------
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0429/dailyUpdate.html

[makor01]

their government did ask us to stay...if we left there right now that country would implode. and like i said before, its against Internation law for us to be an occupying force.

[BlueCat]

well who decides if you are an occupying force...the country doing the occupying or the country being occupied? :rolleyes: the term occupying force is sure being used a lot to describe us.
we should never have been there in the first place. Bottom line: Bush sent US troops into harms way to line his pockets. There are no amount of excuses that can make that wrong a right.

[BlueCat]

Oh and we pulled out of the internation court remember...international law no longer pretains to the Bush administration

[Psycho4Bud]

The psycho said: If Dubya offered a line...hell, most of the people on this board would probably say thank you very much...why should I tell ol' boy no?

BECAUSE since he has been president he has built more prisons and tightened the drug laws even more...it is very hypocritical don't you think?

then Psycho said: We are not occupying forces. At any time the Iraqi Gov. could say goodbye and we would leave


HAHAHAHA can you back up that BS?
Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout even though they fear that could put them in greater danger, according to a new USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm

Six in every 10 Iraqis said US troops in Iraq had acted badly, and 71 percent said they saw the soldiers mostly as occupiers,<----- a new poll released on Wednesday showed.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-04/29/content_1447087.htm

"The more the occupation is seen as taking steps that harm the civilians and the population, the greater the ranks of the resistance grow," said Mr Annan.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1205632,00.html

New Iraq poll: US seen as an 'occupying force' <-------------
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0429/dailyUpdate.html

Can I back up that BS....HAHAHAHA...you make this WAY to easy!

Iraq asks U.N. to renew U.S. troop mandate

By NANCY A. YOUSSEF

Knight Ridder Newspapers


BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's prime minister asked the United Nations on Tuesday to extend its authorization for U.S. forces to stay in the country, underscoring the fragile hold of the newly elected government at a time of rising insurgent violence.

Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari said his government would decide the role of American and other foreign troops, a particularly sensitive issue as the new government tries to establish its legitimacy among the Iraqi people and secure the country against an entrenched insurgency while depending heavily on the U.S. military.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/world/11781333.htm

Now back to me and George doing a line. Hell yes I'd do one with him...maybe even two. I agree that we are completely fucked up on drug policy and that is my biggest bitch with internal policy right now. Would have Kerry been any different...hell no! Do you really believe that the war on drugs is a partisan issue? Fact is if they were to legalize, multimillion dollar rich cats like the Bushs, Kerrys, Kennedys would have to pay proper respect to what would be "past drug lords". Imagine the three of them tipping a champaign acting all friendly in the Whitehouse with a dude named Chico from Columbia. Won't happen! The thing that gets me is that all three would justify jailing a pot dealer for 10 years and giving a baby rapist probation and counciling. Remember, the drug war was waged initially by Nixon to get the hippies off his back about Vietnam. Call the activists criminals..ya..that'll work.
But since the drug war is considered in here as being a republican issue, tell me; what great advances did Clinton make for us in his 8 years?

[makor01]

granted...im on your side about not liking bush, but comments on how other countries lable america is really useless. even if we went there for the wrong reasons the sad truth is that we are there now, and were gonna be there for the long run. the best thing anyone could do in this situation would be to quit undermining the soldiers over there dying and bleeding and show some support.

[Psycho4Bud]

well who decides if you are an occupying force...the country doing the occupying or the country being occupied? :rolleyes: the term occupying force is sure being used a lot to describe us.
we should never have been there in the first place. Bottom line: Bush sent US troops into harms way to line his pockets. There are no amount of excuses that can make that wrong a right.

I always hear how Bush is lining his pockets on this. Show me some links stating the companies in which he has an interest and how much he profitted from the war. I'll be the first to admit that this war is going to produce alot of millionaires. War always does.

[nicholasstanko]

We are not occupying forces. At any time the Iraqi Gov. could say goodbye and we would leave. Hell, they just requested through your precious U.N. that the U.S. and Britian remain longer than initially intended. THEY REQUESTED IT!


If my neighbors and friends were blowing up my kids with a strap on bomb damn right they would be my enemy fast!



If Dubya offered a line...hell, most of the people on this board would probably say thank you very much...why should I tell ol' boy no?
As for toking....I've been tokin' for the last 30 years and like all races, creeds, etc....we have our assholes too. Ain't that right..nicholasstanko. :D

Psycho4Bud]We are not occupying forces. At any time the Iraqi Gov. could say goodbye and we would leave. Hell, they just requested through your precious U.N. that the U.S. and Britian remain longer than initially intended. THEY REQUESTED IT!

Funny. You say "they" as if it were the actual Iraqi people being killed and not some U.S.-friendly pawn miles away from those ever military-evading terrorists.

If my neighbors and friends were blowing up my kids with a strap on bomb damn right they would be my enemy fast!

Yeah but what about the ones that don't want violence and hate being shot at just like you? See that's a definite problem of yours. Quick to jump and say blow 'em all to hell and whoever's left alive that's not an insurgent then they've been liberated. If you believe so much in freedom how come you've never been on these posts saying the war should have been handled in a more diplomatic way? Instead you're quite content to let the president fuck up and as long as you're not personally affected you stand by your "great leader".

If Dubya offered a line...hell, most of the people on this board would probably say thank you very much...why should I tell ol' boy no?
As for toking....I've been tokin' for the last 30 years and like all races, creeds, etc....we have our assholes too. Ain't that right..nicholasstanko. :D

Brilliant use of compounds you psycho! Now show us how fast you can shove the constitution up your ass then shit it on a foreign country calling it their saviour. Hey, then you'd be just like your idol, Bush!

[makor01]

people like you nich dont deserve to call themselves americans. i truly think you are a coward.

[Psycho4Bud]

Brilliant use of compounds you psycho! Now show us how fast you can shove the constitution up your ass then shit it on a foreign country calling it their saviour. Hey, then you'd be just like your idol, Bush!

Very intellegent response! Still with the insults hiding behind your monitor. You'd make an excellent pot plant since you clearly have no nuts!

Love the retoric though, you are clearly a "peace loving" individual. :D

[nicholasstanko]

Now I support lady killers because I support our troops and policies in Iraq? Thank you for that one! And I'm the dolt? When a peson is cornered, human instict is to lash out....you insult me...people go to war...the only difference between you and hostile countries is that they don't have the privilage of lashing out crap across a monitor where it is nice and safe to hide. Now what makes you the great humanitarian....seems to me your on the same wave length as most of our leaders.


Yes you do support lady-killers! You support Bush and his fanatical regime. You support the war. Thus you support troops (alot of them 18-year old boys younger than i am) that are ordered to shoot at people that usually happen to be...innocent WOMEN. See the chain!? Was that too fast though? You can come back and read this anytime you're ready/ Dont worry it'll sink in (hopefully). And of course I'm going to lash out when the idiocy level gets too high. I certainly wouldn't destroy your section of the earth and tell your family i was liberating an abnormal way of thinking over it though. Trust me, we'd all be smoking alot more pot and killing alot less people if our world leaders were on my wavelength/

[nicholasstanko]

Nich your arguement is weak and too common. The US is not an occupying force, thats actually against international law.


I'm glad that my argument is at least common and not in any danger of dying. Thanks for pointing out that occupying forces are against international law. It's a good thing that the U.S. messed up the country enough so that the new government would beg them to stay and clean up their mess. Glad we got that sorted out.

[makor01]

never was i or any of my company EVER ordered to kill women or children. Fuck you for that comment. stop trying to play the vietnam peace loving hippie role man that shit died a long time ago...you are a coward nothing less nothing more.

[nicholasstanko]

The thing that gets me is that all three would justify jailing a pot dealer for 10 years and giving a baby rapist probation and counciling. Remember, the drug war was waged initially by Nixon to get the hippies off his back about Vietnam.


Wrong man. It started earlier than that in the days of rockefeller and hoover. It was allowed by corporate leaders and government heads to falsify reports of cannabis effectualities to rejuvenate the economy by discouraging the use of cheaper alternatives such as hemp for products and clothing and the actual buds as euphoric stress relief.

[Psycho4Bud]

Yes you do support lady-killers! You support Bush and his fanatical regime. You support the war. Thus you support troops (alot of them 18-year old boys younger than i am) that are ordered to shoot at people that usually happen to be...innocent WOMEN. See the chain!? Was that too fast though? You can come back and read this anytime you're ready/ Dont worry it'll sink in (hopefully). And of course I'm going to lash out when the idiocy level gets too high. I certainly wouldn't destroy your section of the earth and tell your family i was liberating an abnormal way of thinking over it though. Trust me, we'd all be smoking alot more pot and killing alot less people if our world leaders were on my wavelength/

U.S. troops are now being ordered to kill innocent women? You should show some type of proof or at least a link on that one! Insults on me....slandering our troops.
I do seriously believe, after reading your recent posts, that the best part of you dripped down your mommas' thigh during birth. If I were you, I'd sue your parents and the hospital for psychological damage. Good Luck! :D

[nicholasstanko]

people like you nich dont deserve to call themselves americans. i truly think you are a coward.


I don't deserve to call myself american though i do love the countr and what its supposed to stand for. I also dont deserve to call myself america because im a proud canadian. I truly think you're a coward too, makor. Cowards never can admit to making or condoning a mistake that's been made. Instead, like you, they blame the very people who wish only the best for everyone NOT just a select few privileged enough to be born into what the have.

[nicholasstanko]

Very intellegent response! Still with the insults hiding behind your monitor. You'd make an excellent pot plant since you clearly have no nuts!



Um...yeh. That was real cool.

[nicholasstanko]

never was i or any of my company EVER ordered to kill women or children. Fuck you for that comment. stop trying to play the vietnam peace loving hippie role man that shit died a long time ago...you are a coward nothing less nothing more.


There you go with that quote diversion again. Youre getting better. I never said troops were ordered to kill innocent women and children. I said that as a result of being ordered to fire on enemies innocent women were usually killed. I dare you to say that more women and children were killed from insurgent attacks than by misfire and bomb drops since the war began. Cmon, I dare you.

[Psycho4Bud]

I don't deserve to call myself american though i do love the countr and what its supposed to stand for. I also dont deserve to call myself america because im a proud canadian. I truly think you're a coward too, makor. Cowards never can admit to making or condoning a mistake that's been made. Instead, like you, they blame the very people who wish only the best for everyone NOT just a select few privileged enough to be born into what the have.

Turns out that Canada's OGI Group (an oil company based in Western Canada) has won a contract to 'develop' an Iraqi oil field (the Himrin oil field). Welcome all Canadians to the woman killer club! Or do you just exploit regions after a U.S. war like vultures looking for our scraps?

[Psycho4Bud]

There you go with that quote diversion again. Youre getting better. I never said troops were ordered to kill innocent women and children. I said that as a result of being ordered to fire on enemies innocent women were usually killed. I dare you to say that more women and children were killed from insurgent attacks than by misfire and bomb drops since the war began. Cmon, I dare you.

" Thus you support troops (alot of them 18-year old boys younger than i am) that are ordered to shoot at people that usually happen to be...innocent WOMEN."

At least get your retoric strait!

[nicholasstanko]

Yes you do support lady-killers! You support Bush and his fanatical regime. You support the war. Thus you support troops (alot of them 18-year old boys younger than i am) that are ordered to shoot at people that usually happen to be...innocent WOMEN. \/


Oka that was my bad. I intended to say that soldiers are ordered to fire on people that usually END UP being innocent women. Now, back to our regularly scheduled message board of conservative diversion!

[makor01]

im a coward? no man i wake up every morning and look at this hole in my gut as i reach for my bottle of pain pills =) and in my heart i know im not a coward. and i should of expected assanine comments from a canadian. Like psy said, you have no balls, at least i had the balls to stand up when i was called on. Eat shit and die.

[Psycho4Bud]

Oka that was my bad. I intended to say that soldiers are ordered to fire on people that usually END UP being innocent women. Now, back to our regularly scheduled message board of conservative diversion!

Conservative diversion? Tooo funny! Your definately a Dem., they are the only ones with so many OOOPS statements. Probably the reason why they can't get elected.:D How bout Hillery in 2008! She talks your language.

[makor01]

I guess hes never seen a truck with a .50 cal mounted on the back of it being driven by a woman. What would you do in that situation nich? lay down and ask the friendly man not to shoot you?

[nicholasstanko]

Turns out that Canada's OGI Group (an oil company based in Western Canada) has won a contract to 'develop' an Iraqi oil field (the Himrin oil field). Welcome all Canadians to the woman killer club! Or do you just exploit regions after a U.S. war like vultures looking for our scraps?

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Saying that makes it seem like all oil companies rape and pillage countries. Did you even bother to research the companies track record of improving communities and did you check to see if it had a firm stance against wasted energy resources? Did you even bother to mention that the company has a track record of being one of the most ecologically efficient in the world meaning that it obviously takes care of its surroundings? Did you forget to mention that the company is based in canada but contracts all over the world? If you have that narrow-minded viewpoint then i guess you figure its okay for jihadists to label all americans as corrupt infidels.

[BlueCat]

Of the 30 members of the Defense Policy Board, the government-appointed group that advises the Pentagon, at least nine have ties to companies that have won more than $76 billion in defense contracts in 2001 and 2002. Four members are registered lobbyists, one of whom represents two of the three largest defense contractors.

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/articles/030328-dpb-advisors.html

every step toward war fills Bush pockets quite literally with gold. That's the way they operate, these liars and thieves in thousand-dollar suits, these secretive fronts who profit from war, fear, blood and greasy palms. They arm the "monsters," they disarm the monsters, making money both ways. Then they drape themselves with Bible and flag, like smug pimps promenading to church, singing "Glory Hallelujah" while the whole world burns.
http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd02152003.html

Fortunes of war await Bush's circle after attacks on Iraq
http://www.rense.com/general29/dbus.htm http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=333400

WASHINGTON â?? The Iraq (news - web sites) war helped bring record earnings to St. Louis-based defense contractor Engineered Support Systems Inc., and new financial data show that the firm's war-related profits have trickled down to a familiar family name â?? Bush.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/pns/db.aspx?act=cinfo&coid=122604846

William Bush is a director of Engineered Support Systems Inc., a supplier of high-tech military goods to - well, to the highest bidder. Just last year they sold $13 million worth of advanced radar gear to upgrade communist China's fleet of fighter jets - you know, the kind that force down U.S. spy planes with such aplomb...

Most of our taxes go to the military and the
likes of Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, etc., who pocket the money and
deliver (usually over budget and late) questionable weapons systems

Once upon a time, the military was supposed to protect America from attack.
Now the military is used to attack other countries. Not because they
threaten you or me. Because it's profitable.

Bush has 32 former arms industry executives, consultants, and major
stockholders in his administration (according to Michelle Ciarrocca, of the
Arms Trade Resource Center). Lockheed Martin VP Bruce Jackson was the
finance chair of the Bush for President campaign. He was heard to brag at a
conference that he would be in a position to "write the Republican platform"
on defense if Bush was nominated. Dick Cheney spent years running
Halliburton, which ranked 18th on the Pentagon's top contractors list in FY
1999. Cheney's wife, Lynne, served on Lockheed Martin's board. Secretary of
the Air Force James Roche is a former Northrop Grumman vice president. Lewis
Libby and Paul Wolfowitz also worked for Northrop Grumman as consultants.
Richard Armitage was a Boeing consultant and Karl Rove a Boeing shareholder
(Armitage was also a consultant for Raytheon). And, of course, daddy Bush
sits on the board of directors of the Carlyle Group (as does James Baker,
the former secretary of state), an investment consortium contracting for
United Defense.
Just start researching the top 20 companies that are profiting from this war and then how they are tied to Bush...

[nicholasstanko]

im a coward? no man i wake up every morning and look at this hole in my gut as i reach for my bottle of pain pills =) and in my heart i know im not a coward. and i should of expected assanine comments from a canadian. Like psy said, you have no balls, at least i had the balls to stand up when i was called on. Eat shit and die.

Just because you stood up and signed on to fight in a war we're still trying to figure out doesn't say anything about your balls except for the fact that you resorted to them rather than your brains. You think you're some kind of self-righteous liberator because you got shot? People shot at you because they feared that you would take away their lives and discourage their religious beliefs and steal their wealth. Somebody shot at me because there probably weren't enough police fighting the "war on terror" on real criminals who dont care about freedom and the liberty of life.

[makor01]

Nich ill let you know that it is most deff a good thing that you dont know me IRL...i hope one day you have big enough feet to walk 1 inch in my shoes...i have nothing more to say to you.

[nicholasstanko]

Conservative diversion? Tooo funny! Your definately a Dem., they are the only ones with so many OOOPS statements. Probably the reason why they can't get elected.:D How bout Hillery in 2008! She talks your language.

Right like the oops statements made by your beloved administration pertaining to illegal arms sales, projected time of freeing iraq completely and torture tactics.

[Psycho4Bud]

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Saying that makes it seem like all oil companies rape and pillage countries. Did you even bother to research the companies track record of improving communities and did you check to see if it had a firm stance against wasted energy resources? Did you even bother to mention that the company has a track record of being one of the most ecologically efficient in the world meaning that it obviously takes care of its surroundings? Did you forget to mention that the company is based in canada but contracts all over the world? If you have that narrow-minded viewpoint then i guess you figure its okay for jihadists to label all americans as corrupt infidels.

So your oil firm isn't looking for a profit while U.S. ones are. Our oil firms are supportive of killing women while yours what, provides child care for women. Get a grip dude! The French and Russians were kicked out and the U.S. companies got some contracts. SO DID THE CANADIAN COMPANIES! So whats the difference? I forgot, GW owns all U.S. oil companies...right.

[nicholasstanko]

I guess hes never seen a truck with a .50 cal mounted on the back of it being driven by a woman. What would you do in that situation nich? lay down and ask the friendly man not to shoot you?

YEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!! Thats some mighty fine logic you got there feller!! Blow em all to pieces!! I reckon that if we shoot aller them women folk it'll be okay jes' as long as we thunkered she was one of them dang fangled EYE-RACKY A-RAB terry-rists!

[Psycho4Bud]

Right like the oops statements made by your beloved administration pertaining to illegal arms sales, projected time of freeing iraq completely and torture tactics.

Typical for a Dem....avoid the blunder and change the subject matter. I grow tired of you. Time to check the babies. Damn, what if there female....I just may shoot em!

[BlueCat]

There is no reason to call any soldier lady killer or baby killer. No one should ever pass judgement when you have not been in the situation these soldiers are in. The point here is that their lives are being put in danger so that the war profiteers can make money.

They were told they were there to liberate and that there were WMDs..that has been proven to be a lie. There is proof this war was dream up far before 9/11 http://www.pnac.info/
and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

the Bush administration switched from WMDs to freedom fight....

Why can you not see this as wrong?

[Psycho4Bud]

YEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!! Thats some mighty fine logic you got there feller!! Blow em all to pieces!! I reckon that if we shoot aller them women folk it'll be okay jes' as long as we thunkered she was one of them dang fangled EYE-RACKY A-RAB terry-rists!

Bitch driving a truck with a 50 cal mounted and you would show mercy? Body bag for NicholASS! :eek:

[nicholasstanko]

Nich ill let you know that it is most deff a good thing that you dont know me IRL...i hope one day you have big enough feet to walk 1 inch in my shoes...i have nothing more to say to you.


I hope I don't become too brainwashed and corrupted to HAVE to walk that one inch. I'm not one who likes moving in the wrong direction.

[BlueCat]

You guys are just being silly... :rolleyes:

[BlueCat]

psycho...let me know when you read the links...you really can tie this war to profiteering...

[makor01]

My war was in afghanistan not iraq....i didnt get a chance to go to iraq or i would of. Nich's uslessness isnt bothering me anymore, hes just showing his own ignorance.

But if he must know, we blew the shit out of that truck Nich.
Thats again one of the many nightmares that i have at least everyother night. Shit happens when youre put in life and death situations huh man? Yet again you wouldnt know anything about that.

[nicholasstanko]

So your oil firm isn't looking for a profit while U.S. ones are. Our oil firms are supportive of killing women while yours what, provides child care for women. Get a grip dude! The French and Russians were kicked out and the U.S. companies got some contracts. SO DID THE CANADIAN COMPANIES! So whats the difference? I forgot, GW owns all U.S. oil companies...right.

Yes "my" oil firm is looking for a profit. Oil can't pump on well wishes and good feelings alone. You want companies that don't care about profits, then go back to sleep and say hello to the Tooth fairy for me. I never said anything about oil firms having any kind of opinion or stance on the current war other than profits. However, you seem reluctant to hint at the fact that your oil firms are mostly controlled by the man sending troops to die for them. GW might not own all oil companies, but all of them going to iraq have to go through him and his admin. in some form or another.....so i am right. thanks for backing me up.

[BlueCat]

I talked to a marine from afganistan that was having a hard time. He was involved in the accidental shooting of an 80 year old couple. It bothers him a lot.

[nicholasstanko]

Typical for a Dem....avoid the blunder and change the subject matter. I grow tired of you. Time to check the babies. Damn, what if there female....I just may shoot em!

If i had avoided the blunder I would have not made any reference to my mistake. But now that your on partisan-bashing, sounds just like a conservative to get called out on fucking up but sweeping blame under the rug.

[nicholasstanko]

[QUOTE=BlueCat]There is no reason to call any soldier lady killer or baby killer. No one should ever pass judgement when you have not been in the situation these soldiers are in. The point here is that their lives are being put in danger so that the war profiteers can make money. QUOTE]

No its not like that! Im not trying to say soldiers are baby killers or women killers! Im not some hippy asshole. Im trying to say that soldiers are ordered to fire on enemies but as a RESULT women and other innocents are killed ACCIDENTALLY. Dont let these guys switch around what im trying to say. I need you on my side with these issues, cat.

[BlueCat]

OK nichol...its ok. :) I understood what you meant.

[makor01]

yeah cat...there is a shit load of stuff that im trying to "get over" its not so much the fact that i did take many peoples lives, its all the "what ifs". never in my life did i ever think id tell some private to light up a woman....never...but if i didnt that POS would of killed us all...also referr to my post on the "soldier cleared" thread...some nasty stuff happens in war and the only point that im trying to get across here is that there is no reason to talk down on our troops. we only did what we were told, and what we had to do to make it home alive.

[makor01]

No its not like that! Im not trying to say soldiers are baby killers or women killers! Im not some hippy asshole. Im trying to say that soldiers are ordered to fire on enemies but as a RESULT women and other innocents are killed ACCIDENTALLY. Dont let these guys switch around what im trying to say. I need you on my side with these issues, cat.


Nich youve showed your ass here man, no reason to try to go back on it now...we all know exactly what you meant. I didnt see you say "Accidentally" once man...get a clue bro.

[nicholasstanko]

yeah cat...there is a shit load of stuff that im trying to "get over" its not so much the fact that i did take many peoples lives, its all the "what ifs". never in my life did i ever think id tell some private to light up a woman....never...but if i didnt that POS would of killed us all...also referr to my post on the "soldier cleared" thread...some nasty stuff happens in war and the only point that im trying to get across here is that there is no reason to talk down on our troops. we only did what we were told, and what we had to do to make it home alive.


Look man, im sorry. I havnt smoked in about a couple hours so im a little irritable. I don't think you're the enemy at all. In fact, I think you're even kind of cool. I respect what you've done for the world and the sacrifices you've made but my stance is that you were told to go into there for not necessarily the wrong reasons but under false pretenses that the Bush admin. made up. I wouldnt wish for any soldier to go into a combat situation unless it was absolutely necessary. I'm speaking out against a government that selfishly asks you to lay your life down just so they could make a profit. If I could, I'd change things so you or anyone wouldnt have to think about 50 cal trucks and bullets in your guts. We may be different idealogically, but Im not your enemy.

[BlueCat]

He did not mean our soldiers were shooting women on purpose..come on now..

[BlueCat]

Look man, im sorry. I havnt smoked in about a couple hours so im a little irritable. I don't think you're the enemy at all. In fact, I think you're even kind of cool. I respect what you've done for the world and the sacrifices you've made but my stance is that you were told to go into there for not necessarily the wrong reasons but under false pretenses that the Bush admin. made up. I wouldnt wish for any soldier to go into a combat situation unless it was absolutely necessary. I'm speaking out against a government that selfishly asks you to lay your life down just so they could make a profit. If I could, I'd change things so you or anyone wouldnt have to think about 50 cal trucks and bullets in your guts. We may be different idealogically, but Im not your enemy.


Couldn't have said it better myself... :)

[nicholasstanko]

Oka that was my bad. I intended to say that soldiers are ordered to fire on people that usually END UP being innocent women. Now, back to our regularly scheduled message board of conservative diversion!


Must've missed my pronouncement of making a mistake. See how easy it can be? All together now...

[makor01]

I agree with you about going into iraq for the wrong reasons...im actually quite bitter on how our campaign in afghanistan got overlooked. I seriously thought that we would find osama there, but the focus was switched and we lost him. Yet i dont feel that my sacrifice was for nothing.

[nicholasstanko]

neither do i, mak. Dont think i havnt noticed the footage of people being brought together to aid those fighting or the tears that've flowed from others that contemplate why their family members had to be the one that died. YOU and thousands of others didnt go in for the wrong reasons, Bush, rumsfeld, ashcroft powel and condosleazza did.

[BlueCat]

Not only overlooked he pulled troops out and let it become even more dangerous for the troops...

[nicholasstanko]

And don't forget about Gonzalez too!

[makor01]

yup....sadly this is a twisted world we live in...i sure hope things are better when i have children.

[Psycho4Bud]

neither do i, mak. Dont think i havnt noticed the footage of people being brought together to aid those fighting or the tears that've flowed from others that contemplate why their family members had to be the one that died. YOU and thousands of others didnt go in for the wrong reasons, Bush, rumsfeld, ashcroft powel and condosleazza did.

You forgot about the Senate and House of Representatives. They all had the same info and reports and one by one showed their little faces on the TV stating how Sadamm had to go, invasion is imminant. The peoples democratic heros didn't change their minds till American lives were lost. Then its BUSHS war. You think I'm all about Bush, I distrust all politicians! I just couldn't see putting Hanoi Kerry into that position while we had brave soldiers like makor01 in harms way.

My own personal feeling on politics....set down the 8 major world leaders with an ounce of White Widow and let them talk shit out! :D

[BlueCat]

My own personal feeling on politics....set down the 8 major world leaders with an ounce of White Widow and let them talk shit out!

Sounds like a good plan to me.... :D

[nicholasstanko]

You forgot about the Senate and House of Representatives. They all had the same info and reports and one by one showed their little faces on the TV stating how Sadamm had to go, invasion is imminant. The peoples democratic heros didn't change their minds till American lives were lost. Then its BUSHS war. You think I'm all about Bush, I distrust all politicians! I just couldn't see putting Hanoi Kerry into that position while we had brave soldiers like makor01 in harms way.

My own personal feeling on politics....set down the 8 major world leaders with an ounce of White Widow and let them talk shit out! :D

I didnt mention them because they were duped like most of us. It's Bushs war now because he's in charge. I agree with you on the White Widow movement though

[Psycho4Bud]

I didnt mention them because they were duped like most of us. It's Bushs war now because he's in charge. I agree with you on the White Widow movement though

Like the quote, instead of WMD we could implement WWM. White Widow Movement....kinda like Bill and Teds great Adventure. What a way to bring on world peace!

Keep it real all.....people to see, weed to smoke, and if I get lucky...maybe I'll run into GW with a couple of those sweet white lines!LOL :D

P.S. They weren't duped dude, like all crooked politicians, they were saying what the American public wanted to hear at the time. Lying Bastards one and all! Just remember the famous acts of Bill Clinton....who I liked and voted twice for...If the lady didn't swallow, ya just can't call it sex. CLASSIC!

[nicholasstanko]

nah don't do that. you'll just end up screwing up social security lol.