Do you believe in a god?

[theone2334]

I grew up in a Christian family, and every Sunday my parents brought me to church to learn the word of god. As I grew up, the more I began to think about religion and this idea of a god, and the more it came to me, isn't this a bit silly? This almighty powerful god for some reason created this extraordinarily complex universe and then left without showing shed of proof of his existence. I have talked with many religious people and have tried to understand their reasoning as to why they believe in god, and there answer ultimately comes down to faith. Nothing more than faith; is it just me or is taking an idea completely on faith a little naïve? Doesnâ??t it make so much more sense that the universe has came to be as we perceive to be today by a process that can be explained logically? That perhaps planet earth is just one of many sites in the universe where the conditions for life are right? And on this small little planet orbiting an average star, in an average spiral galaxy, in a small corner of the universe life evolved into complex forms and sometime very recently, highly intelligent beings came to be. Overwhelmed by the beauty and complexity of the world they inhabited, they began to try and piece together the puzzle. Without science or any other method of rational analysis, early thinkers invented gods to explain what they had no other way of explaining. Through the ages wars were waged against different civilizations, in the name of god or the gods they believed in. Entire civilizations and beliefs were wiped out. Does all of this sound so ridiculous? Why canâ??t we just accept that earth isnâ??t really anything that special, and life as we know it developed on earth through chemical processes and evolved into more complex forms, and religion and other old ideas that attempt to explain how we came to be are just inventions of early civilizations and are no longer applicable? While I have completely disregarded the idea of religion for some time now, only recently has it really angered me. Like conservatives withholding the rights of gay people from marrying, just because some book says itâ??s bad. While I am straight, if I were gay I would be one pissed off individual. Even today wars are waged in the name of god. Entire countries at each others throats just because they believe in a different god or set of beliefs. I could go on but I can already see this post is getting quite long, and many people who pass by it might not be interested in reading it. So, why does the majority of the world still believe in a god or gods? Why canâ??t we release ourselves from what has been lagging our evolution as a society?

[Breukelen advocaat]

theone2334 wrote, "So, why does the majority of the world still believe in a god or gods? Why canâ??t we release ourselves from what has been lagging our evolution as a society?"

I think that people are infected with religiosity because they do not know how to think for themselves. The churches, and other powers that be, are in the business of profit by control. Children are trained in, and rewarded for, ways of thinking that should be considered self destructive and anti-human; they are often discouraged, even punished, when exhibiting skepticism and/or intelligence.

The best hope for the human race is for them to move forward by going back, to nature - and using plants that provide the mind with appropriate direction and insight into the proper uses of technology and the other sciences. The self-destructive tendencies of the human race must be recognized and curbed, or we will face disastrous consequences.

Just my .02

[peacenotprofit]

NOPE. ATLEAST NOT THE GOD THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT....TO MANY CONTRIDICTIONS.

[LOVElife]

The belief they exercise in that "Condoms cannot be used", is extremely dangerous and is affecting million of people throughout the world! The Aids epidemic has hit astronomical proportions throughout Africa and I believe this belief should be slowly pushed out!

Im not religious by any stretch of the imagination but this is one subject that bothers me!!!

[nomadherbman]

its good to find some people who feel the same way....i think the reason people are still religoius is because there afraid the think that quite possibly we are as insinifficant as the bug we squash on our wall. people are scared to think that there couldnt be life after death i mean thats what we all fear most. my theory is this... this whole univese is mad up of positive and negative energy which is why good and bad things occure another thought is that our universe is expanding at a quiker rate day by day...because more and more life is dieing and enrgy being released it is a proven fact that our bodies release energy at death we intune become our universe and that goes for everythoing bug human plant.....

my mind is going all over the place but another thought... during the time of jesus there where hundreds of others like him voicing there beliefs and when the romans killed them there ideas died with them. jesus's followers were very very smart if they tell everyone that he has risen from death and that they have seen him walooooa there you go the truth jesus is true haha bunch of bullshit tho o yaa and if you are not repubilcan you do not go to heaven hahahahaha

[nomadherbman]

im beggining to really hate the world we live in...... im so tempted to walking into a rain forest(whats left of it alteast) and never coming back

people are out of control i mean your not supposed to use religion with law there are churches out there not alowing demorcrats rights to attend we still believe what the meger human wrote over 2000 years ago were smarter than that now COME ON!!!!!

[Deborah]

People that are religious have to think this way. Its programed in them. It gives them a reason to live. Why? I dont know because I dont need religion to live nor do I need it to not be scared when I die. People live with the fear of God. How silly is that! Why fear something that is suppose to be so good. I never understood that one. I feel when you die , you just die. The bible was written in a time of superstition. How can anyone honestly belive with all the smart people we have in todays world that this book is to to be so true they live there daily lives by it. I think when a christian calls me dumb that they are the bumb ones because they belive in a fairy tale.

[maryjanemama]

I believe in God. I don't believe in organized religion. Yes, there is a difference.

[Deborah]

Oh and BTW I grew up in the southern Church Of Christ in the US... Talking about control freaks...lol I wsnt allowed to wear pants and shorts had to be at the knees, no music other than religious music. Our ministers sone was the worst kid...lol I He was the first person I had ever seen shoot up. Whats that tell ya..

[amsterdam]

roman catholic,but rarely attend church.

[XTC]

Grew up in a Catholic home, but I'm Agnostic. There is no way to prove of a God or not. I sometimes get blazed and think about the after life and how life became to be, and it's way too complicated for anyone to fully understand. There are many loopholes in creationism and Evoultion.

[amsterdam]

thats just cause you grew up on the south side.

j/k

[XTC]

thats just cause you grew up on the south side.

j/k


LoL. :D

[amsterdam]

i didnt know people here were soooooooo competitive between the north and south side.

white sox are killing people this year and taking names!think they can win it all?

[VoodooChild]

i am in a house that forces me to go to church EVERY sunday AND wednesday and they push god on me so much that i hate the church and sometime hate god. i try to tell them to stop pushing me but they dont. so until then i am not a christian. i am so sick and tired of the systematic veiws of the church anyways

[jzzinator69]

I grew up in a Christian family, and every Sunday my parents brought me to church to learn the word of god. As I grew up, the more I began to think about religion and this idea of a god, and the more it came to me, isn't this a bit silly? This almighty powerful god for some reason created this extraordinarily complex universe and then left without showing shed of proof of his existence. I have talked with many religious people and have tried to understand their reasoning as to why they believe in god, and there answer ultimately comes down to faith. Nothing more than faith; is it just me or is taking an idea completely on faith a little naïve? Doesnâ??t it make so much more sense that the universe has came to be as we perceive to be today by a process that can be explained logically? That perhaps planet earth is just one of many sites in the universe where the conditions for life are right? And on this small little planet orbiting an average star, in an average spiral galaxy, in a small corner of the universe life evolved into complex forms and sometime very recently, highly intelligent beings came to be. Overwhelmed by the beauty and complexity of the world they inhabited, they began to try and piece together the puzzle. Without science or any other method of rational analysis, early thinkers invented gods to explain what they had no other way of explaining. Through the ages wars were waged against different civilizations, in the name of god or the gods they believed in. Entire civilizations and beliefs were wiped out. Does all of this sound so ridiculous? Why canâ??t we just accept that earth isnâ??t really anything that special, and life as we know it developed on earth through chemical processes and evolved into more complex forms, and religion and other old ideas that attempt to explain how we came to be are just inventions of early civilizations and are no longer applicable? While I have completely disregarded the idea of religion for some time now, only recently has it really angered me. Like conservatives withholding the rights of gay people from marrying, just because some book says itâ??s bad. While I am straight, if I were gay I would be one pissed off individual. Even today wars are waged in the name of god. Entire countries at each others throats just because they believe in a different god or set of beliefs. I could go on but I can already see this post is getting quite long, and many people who pass by it might not be interested in reading it. So, why does the majority of the world still believe in a god or gods? Why canâ??t we release ourselves from what has been lagging our evolution as a society?

Thats EXACTLY what happened to me

The part where u said "I were gay I would be one pissed off individual," well i'm bisexual and all that homophobic bullshit really pisses the fuck out of me. I heard a bible passage one time that has the idea that love is never wrong, hurtfull, sinful etc. so whats wrong with same-sex mairage? I ask myself this question all the time, if its so wrong to be homosexual why did god make people have feelings for people of the same sex?

Now when my parents think i'm at sunday school like a good little christian, I go into the corner of the parking lot, block myself off with the dumpsters and garbage cans and smoke weed :)

[BalliN]

i am in a house that forces me to go to church EVERY sunday AND wednesday and they push god on me so much that i hate the church and sometime hate god. i try to tell them to stop pushing me but they dont. so until then i am not a christian. i am so sick and tired of the systematic veiws of the church anyways

for real, my parents tried to get me goin to church and i just told them how i felt straight up about how forcing someone to go to church is stupid, so i feel ur pain...kinda lol

i feel that ones relationship with god, whichever it may be, should be on a personal level..not a public one...i just dont see the appropriateness for a church in my life, so i wont go until i feel the need..if and when

[maryjanemama]

i feel that ones relationship with god, whichever it may be, should be on a personal level..not a public one...
Absolutely true. You can have a relationship with god and not involve the church or christianity. My own beliefs have developed through experiences, not through whatever the sisters or priests were yammering on about when I was in school. I think that "forcing" religious beliefs on anyone is going to cause rebellion and resentment.

For years I hated Catholicism and everything it stood for. That hatred then spread on to any form of organized religion. Then, for years I was absolutely sure there was no god whatsoever.

As an adult events happened that changed my mind....I believe in god but I don't go to church and I am not a christian. But I do know that some sort of a higher power has saved my ass twice in my life. These types of occurrences either happen to you and make and impact on your life or they don't. Whatever the case, it is strictly up to you and what you believe.

I will not even touch on my thoughts about christianity or we will be here all day. Let's just say it's not my cup of tea.

[andruejaysin]

I don't know, God who created the world for reasons I couldn't begin to understand? I guess it's at least a possibility. God as a guy with a beard who cares how often I jack off or how much weed I smoke? Not a chance. But I do think there is some purpose or direction to our lives, if you're willing to see it. If you want to call that God, I guess it's as good a name as any.

[Ousted]

Why canâ??t we just accept that earth isnâ??t really anything that special, and life as we know it developed on earth through chemical processes and evolved into more complex forms, and religion and other old ideas that attempt to explain how we came to be are just inventions of early civilizations and are no longer applicable? While I have completely disregarded the idea of religion for some time now, only recently has it really angered me. Like conservatives withholding the rights of gay people from marrying, just because some book says itâ??s bad. While I am straight, if I were gay I would be one pissed off individual. Even today wars are waged in the name of god. Entire countries at each others throats just because they believe in a different god or set of beliefs. I could go on but I can already see this post is getting quite long, and many people who pass by it might not be interested in reading it. So, why does the majority of the world still believe in a god or gods? Why canâ??t we release ourselves from what has been lagging our evolution as a society?

Because religion fuels the ego. It makes man feel important, and as nomadherbman said its the idea of being significant that turns us onto religion. Religions (all religions) teach people that they MATTER, that the choices they make MATTER, whether they live or die MATTERS...to someone, somewhere. All religions have that in common. Religion will never ever go away as long as man has an ego to feed.

[DisposableTeens56]

religion was created by ppl so that they can not be afraid of the after life and all that shit its just they so they feel like they protected

[bruiser]

People that are religious have to think this way. Its programed in them. It gives them a reason to live. Why? I dont know because I dont need religion to live nor do I need it to not be scared when I die. People live with the fear of God. How silly is that! Why fear something that is suppose to be so good. I never understood that one. I feel when you die , you just die. The bible was written in a time of superstition. How can anyone honestly belive with all the smart people we have in todays world that this book is to to be so true they live there daily lives by it. I think when a christian calls me dumb that they are the bumb ones because they belive in a fairy tale.

I ain't programed
infact it wasn't until I hit my early 30's that the Lord spoke to my heart,it has nothing to do with religion but the exsperience of Christ himself...some say it's not real and stuff,but I have a personal relationship with jESUS,and no I wasn't lead into my faith by a man in a nice suit nocking on my door,I recieved the spirit of Christ like the lords Deciples did on the day of pentecost,the spirit entered me right in my Kitchen,when I needed him...Jesus with me is more then faith he is a exsperienece!,just like taste,touch,feel,smell,see....and no one can bring anyone to understand unless they went through the same exsperience,so a debate about this could go on forever,but I need not to debate what might be simply because it's completely real for me....Note I don't go to church,I have no religion,i don't give the tye I only support what Christ said and did,men go astray but the Lord is like a rock .....................the church of Jesus is us! the people who are of him.....not a building..

[LimpBizkitRMV04]

now youve made me come down to my ultimate theory .... none of you all will probably belive it .. but how i see it .. religon was created to keep the normal every day citizen from overthrowing the government or a higher power than them. its 2 hard to get into detail but thats the basis of it i do have reasoning in this

[nomadherbman]

^^^^ whats so hard about believing that??? I do. scare the public into giving them complete power and wealth.... I mean romans used to do what they did in the name of god..you are now my servants because im a spokesperson for god..do as i say or die..

[bruiser]

Guys it's a little deeper then that lol....but hey your entitled to your own thoughts

[nomadherbman]

^^^^ it didnt start out like that obviously....but thats how it was used and is still used in most cases..

[skarz]

Watch the movie "What the bleep do we know"... it's about quantam physics, and its great... it really gets you thinking!

Anyhow, does anyone know any good places that give supporting evidence about evolution and all? I tend to believe in it, but i have never really understood it. My girlfriend is a christian and gives her reasons why evolution is bullshit, i'd like to see why adam and eve is bullshit. Personally, if Adam and Eve populated the world, that means it was just one incestful family, and that's fuckin terrible and disturbing. That means their kids were having sex with eachother, or even their parents to populate the earth.... thats fucked up.

[Ousted]

"What the Bleep Do We Know" theories reminded me of acid droppers or shoomers. Not much theory, I thought. Just a lot of "What if this happens, and then maybe this, and then possibly this, and isnt that neat, and this and this, and wow!" and you're like "WTF are you talking about crackhead?" Just my personal opinion, but the movie didn't seem to delve deep enough into quantum physics for my liking. And when they gave the credits of the people they were talking to, I couldn't stop laughing. It's no wonder they waited until the end to say who these people were.
There were some good parts of the movie though, I especially liked when they covered how internal dialogue can affect your body and mind.

And yeah, the Adam-and-Eve-populating-the-earth thing is really illogical. As is most everything in the bible. Look up Atheist Forum on google and you should find some good discussions/debates.

[bruiser]

^^^^ it didnt start out like that obviously....but thats how it was used and is still used in most cases..

Thats right like you said it never started out like that! so why did it start to begin with.....I believe in God i'm hooked lol.......but as far as christianity being a creation by man to control man.....doesn't ring any truth to me...

[F L E S H]

now youve made me come down to my ultimate theory .... none of you all will probably belive it .. but how i see it .. religon was created to keep the normal every day citizen from overthrowing the government or a higher power than them. its 2 hard to get into detail but thats the basis of it i do have reasoning in this
You're actually very close to the truth. Knowledge is the ultimate power, and those in power (emperors, kings, presidents, etc) will do everything they can to not let the general public gather too much information. They control the distribution of truth and knowledge in order to keep the public ignorant and easily manipulated. That's where religion comes in. But you have to be careful not to think that religion was purposefully created for this reason. Religion grows out of philosophy, it is only more strict and more regimented. Government co-opts religion or philosophy and uses it to prevent the public from asking too many dangerous questions. Religion is indeed the opiate of the masses, but not originally...

People will not ask dangerous questions when their leaders (religious and secular) tell them that all the answers they seek lie in some religion or other. It's been like this since the dawn of humanity, and unfortuantely it isn't about to change.

Note that this really has nothing to do with me being anti- or pro-religion. Religions, in and of themselves, are sets of beliefs that you can choose to follow or not. I personally don't care what othes think, as long as they don't force their beliefs on me.

[LimpBizkitRMV04]

hmm i think youve got something there man .... i never thought that deep inot it

[F L E S H]

hmm i think youve got something there man .... i never thought that deep inot it
Lol, I don't have anything, it's stuff that I read, but that makes perfect sense to me... :D

[bruiser]

No offence guys but I'll take my chances with the good book! just in case your wrong lol.....I aint about to buy any of that lol.....besides I am a man heavy into the scriptures ........but keep shooting for the truth you just may find it...I once walked the same road that lead to know where...........

[ermitonto]

Nobody's ever presented me with valid evidence (i.e. something I can observe with my own senses and verify) of this God fellow, and they say in order to believe in him I need to have "faith" (i.e. I need to believe stuff without evidence for it), so I had to reject Christianity as logically unfounded in my early teenage years. And it didn't look like any religion had any proof whatsoever of a supernatural world, so I naturally came to the conclusion that there is no reason to believe in something with no evidence for it and rejected religion altogether.

See the Set Free from Jesus (www.jcnot4me.com) site for more info, especially the proof that Jesus was a false prophet. (http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/matthew_24_verse_by_verse.htm)

[Ousted]

No offence guys but I'll take my chances with the good book! just in case your wrong lol.....I aint about to buy any of that lol.....besides I am a man heavy into the scriptures ........but keep shooting for the truth you just may find it...I once walked the same road that lead to know where...........

Are you still searching for the truth, or have you stopped because of faith?

And I agree that not knowing the answers is quite frustrating, but my feeling is I would rather spend my life searching for whatever truths I may find even if it does lead me nowhere, then to just accept the easy answer so I wont have to worry or think deeply about the unknown anymore.

[ermitonto]

For me, it is not "the easy answer so I wont have to worry or think deeply about the unknown anymore". It is pursuing questions of the unknown in a scientific manner, rather than relying on ancient texts or conjectures that try to know what is inherently unknowable and are thus unfalsifiable and unverifiable. It seems, from all that we can observe, that the universe is nothing but a composition of mass and energy. If there is any "supernatural world" interacting with physical reality, it must be detectable and measurable somehow, but we have no such evidence that this is the case. If we want to explore the origins of the universe, we look into the cosmos and the structure of what we see and try to theorize on how the mass and energy got into its current configurations. There is much fascinating scientific research into these subjects that do a much better job of explaining how we got here than the Bible can.

[Ousted]

By "easy answer" I meant religion. ;)

[F L E S H]

No offence guys but I'll take my chances with the good book! just in case your wrong lol.....I aint about to buy any of that lol.....besides I am a man heavy into the scriptures ........but keep shooting for the truth you just may find it...I once walked the same road that lead to know where...........
But in order to attain ultimate truth and knowledge supposed, shouldn't you read everything you can get your hands on? I'm a history major, and when I prepare to write a 20 page paper, I don't just read one book on the subject and assume I know everything there is to know about it. I read about 10 books, and I STILL don't know everything.

So how do you think you can reach the ultimate truth just by reading the Bible? (I'm assuming you're one of those fellows who believes everythin he reads in the Bible literally, which another problem for another day)

[maryjanemama]

No offence guys but I'll take my chances with the good book! just in case your wrong lol.....I aint about to buy any of that lol.....besides I am a man heavy into the scriptures ........but keep shooting for the truth you just may find it...I once walked the same road that lead to know where...........Wow, bruiser, look how you spelled nowhere, if that's not a Freudian slip, I don't know what is. Seems to me your subconscious knows best!!

Why do all Christians believe that those of us who don't believe in Jesus are wondering aimlessly through life? Personally, I'm not searching for anything. I am happy and satisfied with my life. We'll never know the truth, but, that doesn't mean we have to believe in the bible or stop questioning the existence of God.

If we all thought like you, bruiser, we'd believe the Earth is flat, the ocean contains sea monsters, and leeches cure bronchitis.

[Torog]

But in order to attain ultimate truth and knowledge supposed, shouldn't you read everything you can get your hands on? I'm a history major, and when I prepare to write a 20 page paper, I don't just read one book on the subject and assume I know everything there is to know about it. I read about 10 books, and I STILL don't know everything.

So how do you think you can reach the ultimate truth just by reading the Bible? (I'm assuming you're one of those fellows who believes everythin he reads in the Bible literally, which another problem for another day)
Howdy FLESH,

In a way..you're right..I think folks should read all of the other religious texts..in the end,they'll come full circle and realize,that only Jesus Christ,was and is,the Son of God..and they will realize,that muhammed and bhudda,were just men,who wanted to appear Divine..are cows Divine and Holy ? I don't think so..yet the Hindhu's believe such nonsense,some even think that rats are Divine.

When you pass over to the other side,the truth will be revealed to you..and you can make your choice then..if you choose to ignore the Hand of God,in both your creation,your children's creation and the universe..then that's your choice..but I don't see how anyone who smokes weed,can't believe that only a loving God..could have created such for our use.

Have a good one....

[F L E S H]

Howdy FLESH,

In a way..you're right..I think folks should read all of the other religious texts..in the end,they'll come full circle and realize,that only Jesus Christ,was and is,the Son of God..and they will realize,that muhammed and bhudda,were just men,who wanted to appear Divine..are cows Divine and Holy ? I don't think so..yet the Hindhu's believe such nonsense,some even think that rats are Divine.

When you pass over to the other side,the truth will be revealed to you..and you can make your choice then..if you choose to ignore the Hand of God,in both your creation,your children's creation and the universe..then that's your choice..but I don't see how anyone who smokes weed,can't believe that only a loving God..could have created such for our use.

Have a good one....
I don't believe anything created me or my world. I am, as the world just is.

Is that too bleak for religious folk? I don't think it's bleak at all. I think it's rather beautiful. I think it leaves the path open for the unhindered development of our consciousness and the understanding of our world. Religions inevitably place limits and boundaries on what we should and shouldn't know, on what we're allowed to see.

But I think what you wrote about Hinduism is quite offensive. But then again, I think what you wrote about Christianity is offensive as well, because it's not real Christianity... But that's another debate for another day. All life is sacred in Hinduism, which is itself quite a nice notion. They believe all life is sacred because of reincarnation, and in your next life you could be absolutely anything... so why harm something that might have been a departed loved one in a previous life? I'm sure to you it seems ridiculous that someone's grand daddy is a cow today, but I'm sure to a lot Hindus Christians believing in creationism is just as stupid...

[bruiser]

Wow, bruiser, look how you spelled nowhere, if that's not a Freudian slip, I don't know what is. Seems to me your subconscious knows best!!

Why do all Christians believe that those of us who don't believe in Jesus are wondering aimlessly through life? Personally, I'm not searching for anything. I am happy and satisfied with my life. We'll never know the truth, but, that doesn't mean we have to believe in the bible or stop questioning the existence of God.

If we all thought like you, bruiser, we'd believe the Earth is flat, the ocean contains sea monsters, and leeches cure bronchitis.

O'k now I am being made fun of because of my grammer lol,thats o'k dude! I understand your frustrations..All I can say is,with out Jesus what is there?,just you!..........if you believe or not thats up tp you,but I found my peace and I am just offering up a piece of the great Love that Jesus gives....like I said it was all blinding for me as well,and to be honest I once was just like you.....I am a Jesus freak! without him I am absolutly worthless..

[F L E S H]

It's one thing to believe in whatever you want... Nobody can take that away from you. What bothers people most is when Christians condescend to them and say things like Hindus are silly and if you don't believe in Jesus you'll go to hell... I understand that your intentions are good, and you want everybody to be happy, but sometimes you lack respect and the understanding that maybe not everyboy needs Jesus to be happy and spiritually fulfilled...

[bruiser]

Nobody's ever presented me with valid evidence (i.e. something I can observe with my own senses and verify) of this God fellow, and they say in order to believe in him I need to have "faith" (i.e. I need to believe stuff without evidence for it), so I had to reject Christianity as logically unfounded in my early teenage years. And it didn't look like any religion had any proof whatsoever of a supernatural world, so I naturally came to the conclusion that there is no reason to believe in something with no evidence for it and rejected religion altogether.

See the Set Free from Jesus (www.jcnot4me.com) site for more info, especially the proof that Jesus was a false prophet. (http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/matthew_24_verse_by_verse.htm)

I went through the links you had up! and read why Jesus is a false messenger of God....man that is completely wrong interpeation of any of the Lords words...to be honest I had a good laugh,just goes to show you there are people out there who like taking their own shot at things,only to be foolish in the end.......who ever wrote those article should be ashamed lol...considering they havent the first clue about the scriptures let alone about who Jesus is....just another way to try and keep people from the truth.....good luck on future research there buddy lol..

[maryjanemama]

Bruiser, I do believe in a higher power, but, I don't believe in the Jesus stuff. Those 2 beliefs are always blurred. I belive that everything had to start from something. I don't believe in Chrisianity.

[naturalmystic]

Howdy FLESH,

In a way..you're right..I think folks should read all of the other religious texts..in the end,they'll come full circle and realize,that only Jesus Christ,was and is,the Son of God..and they will realize,that muhammed and bhudda,were just men,who wanted to appear Divine..are cows Divine and Holy ? I don't think so..yet the Hindhu's believe such nonsense,some even think that rats are Divine.

When you pass over to the other side,the truth will be revealed to you..and you can make your choice then..if you choose to ignore the Hand of God,in both your creation,your children's creation and the universe..then that's your choice..but I don't see how anyone who smokes weed,can't believe that only a loving God..could have created such for our use.

Have a good one....


It bothered me when you said that the Hindu's believe such 'nonsense'. I'm curious as to why you called it nonsense. Would that be because you just don't believe in the same things the hindu's do?

[Nullific]

In a way..you're right..I think folks should read all of the other religious texts..in the end,they'll come full circle and realize,that only Jesus Christ,was and is,the Son of God..and they will realize,that muhammed and bhudda,were just men,who wanted to appear DivineThis is how I prove you're ignorant about other philosophical beliefs, and I get a lot of people with this one...Buddha, aka Siddhartha Gautama, did not in any way shape or form wish to appear 'divine' or god-like. A Buddha is not a god, Siddhartha Gautama is not a god nor did he ever advertise himself as one. Thus the overwhelming majority of Buddhists are also atheists. So don't you go on claiming folks should read all religious texts, because you've obviously not read a word of the Dhammapada or even typed 'Buddhism' into a search engine and looked for a few seconds to learn this simple fact.

Then, in the same context you have used I can easily make the claim that Muhammed was Gods true messanger and Jesus was merely a man who wanted to appear divine. Clear that one up for me.

[nomadherbman]

^^^ way to put it!

Torog i suggest you watch "What The Bleep Do We Know" maybe than you'll inturn realize something

[nomadherbman]

but were all just as bent on our ways and believes as you....maybe ill try and open myself up to god again....lol or not... but i guess i just realized that i dont know any better about what really is than you and wont till i die....gota love the irony of it

ill try my hardest to come back and tell everyone the truth lol

[BalliN]

at this point in my life, im indifferent, i have no arguement for either side, i think life experiences will sway my decision one way or the other, and at 17 im unsure.

my dad believes in Jesus with all of his heart, he goes to church 2 days a week, i dont join him, just because i feel bored, i never really saw the point of church anyway.

i also haev a friend whos a couple years older than me, his whole family...and i mean WHOLE family(brothers,sisters,aunts,uncles,dad,mom,cousi ns), are serious drug addicts, yet despite all of negatives pushing him down the wrong path coming from the people one needs so much in life, he found church and fell in love with Jesus Christ. And whether i agree or not, i can respect that. hes 20 years old and hes a preacher, since as long as i can remember, even before his 'epiphany' he was the nicest kid i ever met. now hes devoted his whole life to the lord.

ive tried going to church and ive never really felt the way that i believe everyone else in there feels, and it turned me off immediatly, at this point i think im too skeptical to be religious, yet i do fear god, wouldnt it suck to be wrong?


dnno if this made sense, just my scattered thoughts.

[F L E S H]

at this point in my life, im indifferent, i have no arguement for either side, i think life experiences will sway my decision one way or the other, and at 17 im unsure.

my dad believes in Jesus with all of his heart, he goes to church 2 days a week, i dont join him, just because i feel bored, i never really saw the point of church anyway.

i also haev a friend whos a couple years older than me, his whole family...and i mean WHOLE family(brothers,sisters,aunts,uncles,dad,mom,cousi ns), are serious drug addicts, yet despite all of negatives pushing him down the wrong path coming from the people one needs so much in life, he found church and fell in love with Jesus Christ. And whether i agree or not, i can respect that. hes 20 years old and hes a preacher, since as long as i can remember, even before his 'epiphany' he was the nicest kid i ever met. now hes devoted his whole life to the lord.

ive tried going to church and ive never really felt the way that i believe everyone else in there feels, and it turned me off immediatly, at this point i think im too skeptical to be religious, yet i do fear god, wouldnt it suck to be wrong?


dnno if this made sense, just my scattered thoughts.
That makes perfect sense. You're quite eloquent for a 17 year old. I think this is a normal stage to be in, and eventually you'll figurte things out on your own. The only advice I could give you is don't let anyone tell you what to think; it is infinitely more fulfilling to figure it out on your own.

[Torog]

This is how I prove you're ignorant about other philosophical beliefs, and I get a lot of people with this one...Buddha, aka Siddhartha Gautama, did not in any way shape or form wish to appear 'divine' or god-like. A Buddha is not a god, Siddhartha Gautama is not a god nor did he ever advertise himself as one. Thus the overwhelming majority of Buddhists are also atheists. So don't you go on claiming folks should read all religious texts, because you've obviously not read a word of the Dhammapada or even typed 'Buddhism' into a search engine and looked for a few seconds to learn this simple fact.

Then, in the same context you have used I can easily make the claim that Muhammed was Gods true messanger and Jesus was merely a man who wanted to appear divine. Clear that one up for me.Howdy Nullific,

I must admit,that you're right about my ignorance..I have chosen not to study other philosophies and religions,in the hope that I would find truth in them,because my heart and soul,accepted Jesus Christ and His Father,a long time ago. Does that mean that I have chosen not to think for myself ? Maybe..however,I have compared what I do know of other religions to my religious beliefs,and I find them all to be lacking in their scope and intent.

Did muhammed or siddhartha,perform any miracles ? Nope. Did the ground shake and the sky darken,when they passed ? Nope. Did either of them,rise from death and ascend into Heaven ? Nope. Did either of them,believe in unconditional love ? I don't know about siddhartha,but I do know,that muhammed did not believe in unconditional love,he commanded his followers to wage jihad against the non-believers and infidels. As for Hindhu's,they believe that a human,can be reborn as an animal,which cannot be,because Man was created in the Image of God..not a cow or a rat.

Have a good one....

[highinspain]

Something to chew on:

When the president talks to God
Are the conversations brief or long?
Does he ask to rape our womenâ??s' rights
And send poor farm kids off to die?
Does God suggest an oil hike
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
Are the consonants all hard or soft?
Is he resolute all down the line?
Is every issue black or white?
Does what God say ever change his mind
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
Does he fake that drawl or merely nod?
Agree which convicts should be killed?
Where prisons should be built and filled?
Which voter fraud must be concealed
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
I wonder which one plays the better cop
We should find some jobs. the ghetto's broke
No, they're lazy, George, I say we don't
Just give 'em more liquor stores and dirty coke
That's what God recommends

When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God

When the president talks to God
Does he ever think that maybe he's not?
That that voice is just inside his head
When he kneels next to the presidential bed
Does he ever smell his own bullshit
When the president talks to God?

I doubt it

I doubt it

Lyrics: When The President Talks To God
Musician: BRIGHT EYES

[F L E S H]

Howdy Nullific,

I must admit,that you're right about my ignorance..I have chosen not to study other philosophies and religions,in the hope that I would find truth in them,because my heart and soul,accepted Jesus Christ and His Father,a long time ago. Does that mean that I have chosen not to think for myself ? Maybe..however,I have compared what I do know of other religions to my religious beliefs,and I find them all to be lacking in their scope and intent.

Did muhammed or siddhartha,perform any miracles ? Nope. Did the ground shake and the sky darken,when they passed ? Nope. Did either of them,rise from death and ascend into Heaven ? Nope. Did either of them,believe in unconditional love ? I don't know about siddhartha,but I do know,that muhammed did not believe in unconditional love,he commanded his followers to wage jihad against the non-believers and infidels. As for Hindhu's,they believe that a human,can be reborn as an animal,which cannot be,because Man was created in the Image of God..not a cow or a rat.

Have a good one....
Sometimes you're boring, sometimes you're repetitive, now you're funny! If you would do some research on your own, you'd find that Jesus didn't performa single one of those miracles. Every single miracle attributed to Jesus in the Gospels had been performed, often in the exact same manner, by more ancient religious figures. Horus and Osiris, of the ancient Egyptians, pretty much cover them all, as well as some others. I already talke about the virgin births. Horus once changed water to wine. He also brought a man named El Lazar back to life (Lazarus, anyone?). Osiris died, went to the underworld, and came back to life.

Jesus' miracles were re-hashed from ancient religions and traditions, mostly ancient Egyptian ones. To place your faith in Jesus just because he performed miracles and "the ground shook and the sky darkened" when he died is ridiculous. If you say you love Jesus because he preached unconditional love, that's also laughable because you're the complete opposite. You preach war, death, forced conversion, hatred of everybody who's not like you. That's a far cry from Jesus Christ.

[mrdevious]

Actually FLESH, I dont' know about Torogs history all that well, but I didn't find his above post offensive really. I'm a buddhist, other's here may be muslims, and as he said he doens't know either religion inside out, he just doesn't believe in what he's heard of them and that's fine.

as for you saying you don't know about sidhartha's teachings on unconditional love torog, I can fill you in a bit. basically Buddha believes the essence of what others call "god" is within us all and can be fully realized through meditation and proper living. Buddhism doesn't discount or preach any god(s), but merely believes in the path to enlightenment being the way to achieve the true and purest nature we can attain, which I would think god would want. after all, gods teachings are there to to teach us how to live our lives. as for unconditional love, buddha taught that through meditative and livestyle practices we should aim toward achieving universal love. to care for all life, to love those close to you, to see your enemies as those trapped in their own ignorance, most often derived from greed, ego, and selfishness. also an interesting note, many religions such an Shinto, hindu, taoism, and even christianity have adapted buddhism as a part of their religion (yes, there are christian-buddhists) in the believe that buddhist practices can help them be closer to their god(s). plus people have theorized that Jesus attained enlightenment as Buddha did, though I don't know christianity well enough to make that call.

my conclusion: if god spoke to us through jesus or whoever to give us these guidelines to life, I wouldn't think it wouldn't matter how we attain this, so long as we live in a peacefull and loving way as god would want. going to church is a way to achieve spiritual enlightenment, not to stroke gods ego. if we do so through other means that's all good to.

[NowhereMan]

about GOD

i dont trust that man has kept the records str8
history is a story told and retold
if there is a GOD or if there is none is something man will never know while he is alive
i dont believe i have any fiath,but im not sure of that iether,
mayber i do have some

for all i know we came from apes
for all i know we came from aliens
for all know you dont know shit just like me
that dont mean you dont have fiath.
and if you do have it
i guess i will say
bless you
i say
just in case some GOD is "listening" to me type
(ya that was a half-assed-joke)
peace to you all

[NightProwler]

i dont beileve in god because (in my oppinion) it's all obviousley made up.

[major crisis]

I have not doubts God exists.
absolutely no doubts

:)

[chosen1]

I'm sorry but ur all chatting wet. I mean if we evolved ourselves from something, then how did that something come about, whichever way you want to put it someone must have created the universe, someone of higher power than the average human being. Obviously God never intended everyone to believe in him by revealing himself to man kind as if everybody believed in him and saw him then people would be too scared to do anything wrong, hence the reason God gave us FREE WILL; I mean how would we be able to make mistakes to prove what type of people we are to determine whether we belong in heaven or not. Also, people doubt the bible, R U STOOPID?, it's not going to be 100% correct word for word, infact one of many things in the bible that puzzled me was the begining. If humans have to prove themselves to God in order for them to be accepted into heaven then how did satan come about? I thought if adam and eve were supposed to be the first beings on earth then how were they tempted into eating from the tree of knowledge by satan who was a fallen angel therefore being a human being prior to being an angel prior to being the devil. Fact is the Bible is only a guideline, a rough account to what actually occured. Why would God want to let man kind know all his 'secrets' when there is evil as well as good in people? God, isn't the only one of power in the universe, theres the forces of both good and evil which is what i belive he was trying to tell us through the story of adam and eve, i dont think god created evil but it already existed therefore God not being the only one of power in the universe. If there was only good then we wouldn't have free will, if there was only evil we wouldnt have free will. At the end of the day it all bubbles down to faith, you either believe it or you don't but then how to we explain things such as spirits? And how come when people living in 'haunted' houses seek the help of an exorsist/priest the spirits seem to go away? Many people don't beleive in God because of the amount of suffering that goes on in the world but if we all prayed and got what we prayed for then what would be the point, the human race wouldn't have developed in the way thawhich it has, there would be no doctors, no scientists etc. and we would all still be living how people did in the 15th century woundering why it rains, we would never die, suffer, know what pain feels like. There would still be conflict, fighting, pain; there would never be peace as people are different (again hence free will) and whether God answered all our prayers or not peoplpe would still fight amoung themselves as God gave them free will. What would be the point in humans then? We'd just be existing not living while relying on God's help. At the end of the day whether you believe we evolved out of something (meaning there having to have been something to evolve from in the first place) or whether you believe God created us there still must have been something that started it all off either way you look at it, whether you belive it was god or something else there's definately a power higher than man kind.

[chosen1]

about GOD

i dont trust that man has kept the records str8
history is a story told and retold
if there is a GOD or if there is none is something man will never know while he is alive
i dont believe i have any fiath,but im not sure of that iether,
mayber i do have some

for all i know we came from apes
for all i know we came from aliens
for all know you dont know shit just like me
that dont mean you dont have fiath.
and if you do have it
i guess i will say
bless you
i say
just in case some GOD is "listening" to me type
(ya that was a half-assed-joke)
peace to you all

For all u know we came from apes/aliens etc., whatever you beleive we came from something must have created it.

[chosen1]

Sometimes you're boring, sometimes you're repetitive, now you're funny! If you would do some research on your own, you'd find that Jesus didn't performa single one of those miracles. Every single miracle attributed to Jesus in the Gospels had been performed, often in the exact same manner, by more ancient religious figures. Horus and Osiris, of the ancient Egyptians, pretty much cover them all, as well as some others. I already talke about the virgin births. Horus once changed water to wine. He also brought a man named El Lazar back to life (Lazarus, anyone?). Osiris died, went to the underworld, and came back to life.

Jesus' miracles were re-hashed from ancient religions and traditions, mostly ancient Egyptian ones. To place your faith in Jesus just because he performed miracles and "the ground shook and the sky darkened" when he died is ridiculous. If you say you love Jesus because he preached unconditional love, that's also laughable because you're the complete opposite. You preach war, death, forced conversion, hatred of everybody who's not like you. That's a far cry from Jesus Christ.

Whatever you believe about Jesus Christ may be true it may not be true, but still, you can already see a HUGE difference between what those faiths teach compared to what Jesus/God taught.Unconditional love, the bible barely talks about anything else but forgiveness and loving others.Secondly, most faiths are probably unknowingly worshiping the same God without knowing it, I mean who's to say that the name 'Jesus' is really the name of the son of God? A religion may differ slightly when compared with another but at the end of the day you don't know.

[Psycho4Bud]

Judaism,Christianity, and Islam all follow the 10 commandments. Man was created in Gods image. What is God's image? The 10 commandments. A theory for living. Your choice to live ritious or be a dick.

Be excellent to each other. Party on dudes!!!!!!!!!! :D

[ermitonto]

I'm sorry but ur all chatting wet. I mean if we evolved ourselves from something, then how did that something come about, whichever way you want to put it someone must have created the universe, someone of higher power than the average human being.

Certainly if it is improbable for all this matter and energy to come about from nothing, it is even MORE improbable for an infinite intelligence with superpowers to create all that matter and energy to come about from nothing. If you claim everything has a cause, therefore the universe had a cause, and that cause is god, what is the cause for god? It doesn't bear out, logically speaking. If you say god created himself, wouldn't it be just as reasonable to say the universe created itself?

You should definitely check out Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christian (http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell0.htm).

[root]

Their is no such thing as GOD!
go to these link's and find out for your self.
http://www.subversions.com
http://www.raelianews.org
http://www.rael.org

[sToNeDpEnGuIn420]

I dont believe in god, but im not going to completely close out the ability that there somehow might be one.

[Breukelen advocaat]

You should definitely check out Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christian (http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell0.htm).

I am glad to see that somebody else enjoyed this Russell piece. I first read it, years ago (pre-internet) in book form.

They also have THE TEN COMMANDMENTS by Joseph Lewis - which is a magnificent history, analysis and criticism of them. The hardcover book is hard to find, and expensive. Here it is:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/lewis/lewten0c.htm

"It has often been said that anything may be proved from the Bible; but before anything can be admitted as proved by the Bible, the Bible itself must be proved to be true; for if the Bible be not true, or the truth of it be doubtful, it ceases to have authority, and cannot be admitted as proof of anything." - Thomas Paine

[Breukelen advocaat]

The Tenth Commandment

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's
house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's
wife, nor his manservant, nor his
maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor
any thing that is thy neighbour's."

I highly recommend going to J. Lewis' book The Ten Commandments (online - see above) and finding the chapter about this commandment. There's some fascinating information here.

[mrdevious]

Because religion fuels the ego. It makes man feel important, and as nomadherbman said its the idea of being significant that turns us onto religion. Religions (all religions) teach people that they MATTER, that the choices they make MATTER, whether they live or die MATTERS...to someone, somewhere. All religions have that in common. Religion will never ever go away as long as man has an ego to feed.

that is all true, except not ALL religions, Buddhism has nothing to do with ego. Also early shinto.

I guess religion comes down to ego, fear of death, and a want to believe the universe has justice for everybody in the end (IE heaven and hell).

[ermitonto]

Whatever you believe about Jesus Christ may be true it may not be true, but still, you can already see a HUGE difference between what those faiths teach compared to what Jesus/God taught.

A religion may differ slightly when compared with another but at the end of the day you don't know.
So which is it? Are the other faiths really HUGELY different, or do they "differ slightly"? It can't be both.


Unconditional love, the bible barely talks about anything else but forgiveness and loving others.

Oh?

http://www.bible.org/netbible/1sa15.htm
Then Samuel said to Saul, â??I was the one the Lord sent to anoint you as king over his people Israel. Now listen to what the Lord says. Here is what the Lord of hosts says: â??I carefully observed how the Amalekites opposed Israel along the way when Israel came up from Egypt. So go now and strike down the Amalekites. Destroy everything that they have. Donâ??t spare them. Put them to deathâ??man, woman, child, infant, ox, sheep, camel, and donkey alike.â??â?�

God orders genocide on the Amalekites because hundreds of years ago their ancestors got in the way of the Israelites when they were trying to cross the desert. And that's unconditional love and forgiveness? Or how about Noah's flood, where God decides to kill every creature on Earth because some humans irritated him, and was persuaded to keep alive two of every species. THAT'S unconditional love and forgiveness? Come on.

[Torog]

So which is it? Are the other faiths really HUGELY different, or do they "differ slightly"? It can't be both.



Oh?

http://www.bible.org/netbible/1sa15.htm
Then Samuel said to Saul, â??I was the one the Lord sent to anoint you as king over his people Israel. Now listen to what the Lord says. Here is what the Lord of hosts says: â??I carefully observed how the Amalekites opposed Israel along the way when Israel came up from Egypt. So go now and strike down the Amalekites. Destroy everything that they have. Donâ??t spare them. Put them to deathâ??man, woman, child, infant, ox, sheep, camel, and donkey alike.â??â?�

God orders genocide on the Amalekites because hundreds of years ago their ancestors got in the way of the Israelites when they were trying to cross the desert. And that's unconditional love and forgiveness? Or how about Noah's flood, where God decides to kill every creature on Earth because some humans irritated him, and was persuaded to keep alive two of every species. THAT'S unconditional love and forgiveness? Come on.
Howdy ermitonto,

God is both a loving God and a wrathful God,and He sent His only Son,to deliver a message of unconditional love.

I would like to know more about the Amalekites..maybe their culture was so revolting and blasphemous,that God decided to exert His Wrath upon them..after all..in your world of belief,those who oppose God,Jesus Christ and Christianity,can never do anything wrong or immoral..do you not percieve that those who pursue Light,are Evil..and that those who pursue Darkness,are Good ?

Have a good one ...

[F L E S H]

The eminent theologian Dr. Thaddeus dreamt that he died and pursued his course toward heaven. His studies had prepared him and he had no difficulty in finding the way. He knocked at the door of heaven, and was met with a closer scrutiny than he expected. "I ask admission," he said, "because I was a good man and devoted my life to the glory of God." "Man?" said the janitor, "What is that? And how could such a funny creature as you do anything to promote the glory of God?" Dr. Thaddeus was astonished. "You surely cannot be ignorant of man. You must be aware that man is the supreme work of the Creator." "As to that," said the janitor, "I am sorry to hurt your feelings, but what you're saying is news to me. I doubt if anybody up here has ever heard of this thing you call 'man.' However, since you seem distressed, you shall have a chance of consulting our librarian."

The librarian, a globular being with a thousand eyes and one mouth, bent some of his eyes upon Dr. Thaddeus. "What is this?" he asked the janitor. "This," replied the janitor, "says that it is a member of a species called 'man,' which lives in a place called 'Earth.' It has some odd notion that the Creator takes a special interest in this place and this species. I thought perhaps you could enlighten it." "Well," said the librarian kindly to the theologian, "perhaps you can tall me where this place is that you call 'Earth.'" "Oh," said the theologian, "it's part of the Solar System." "And what is the Solar System?" asked the librarian. "Oh," said the theologian, somewhat disconcerted, "my province was Sacred Knowledge, but the question that you are asking belongs to profane knowledge. However, I have learnt enough from my astronomical friends to be able to tell you that the Solar System is part of the Milky Way." "And what is the Milky Way?" asked the librarian. "Oh, the Milky Way is one of the Galaxies, of which, I am told, there are some hundred million." "Well, well," said the librarian, "you could hardly expect me to remember one out of so many. But I do remember to have heard the word galaxy' before. In fact, I believe that one of our sub-librarians specializes in galaxies. Let us send for him and see whether he can help."

After no very long time, the galactic sub-librarian made his appearance. In shape, he was a dodecahedron. It was clear that at one time his surface had been bright, but the dust of the shelves had rendered him dim and opaque. The librarian explained to him that Dr. Thaddeus, in endeavoring to account for his origin, had mentioned galaxies, and it was hoped that information could be obtained from the galactic section of the library. "Well," said the sub-librarian, "I suppose it might become possible in time, but as there are a hundred million galaxies, and each has a volume to itself, it takes some time to find any particular volume. Which is it that this odd molecule desires?" "It is the one called 'The Milky Way,'" Dr. Thaddeus falteringly replied. "All right," said the sub- librarian, "I will find it if I can."

Some three weeks later, he returned, explaining that the extraordinarily efficient card index in the galactic section of the library had enabled him to locate the galaxy as number QX 321,762. "We have employed," he said, "all the five thousand clerks in the galactic section on this search. Perhaps you would like to see the clerk who is specially concerned with the galaxy in question?" The clerk was sent for and turned out to be an octahedron with an eye in each face and a mouth in one of them. He was surprised and dazed to find himself in such a glittering region, away from the shadowy limbo of his shelves. Pulling himself together, he asked, rather shyly, "What is it you wish to know about my galaxy?" Dr. Thaddeus spoke up: "What I want is to know about the Solar System, a collection of heavenly bodies revolving about one of the stars in your galaxy. The star about which they revolve is called 'the Sun.'" "Humph," said the librarian of the Milky Way, "it was hard enough to hit upon the right galaxy, but to hit upon the right star in the galaxy is far more difficult. I know that there are about three hundred billion stars in the galaxy, but I have no knowledge, myself, that would distinguish one of them from another. I believe, however, that at one time a list of the whole three hundred billion was demanded by the Administration and that it is still stored in the basement. If you think it worth while, I will engage special labor from the Other Place to search for this particular star."

It was agreed that, since the question had arisen and since Dr. Thaddeus was evidently suffering some distress, this might be the wisest course.

Several years later, a very weary and dispirited tetrahedron presented himself before the galactic sub-librarian. "I have," he said, "at last discovered the particular star concerning which inquiries have been made, but I am quite at a loss to imagine why it has aroused any special interest. It closely resembles a great many other stars in the same galaxy. It is of average size and temperature, and is surrounded by very much smaller bodies called 'planets.' After minute investigation, I discovered that some, at least, of these planets have parasites, and I think that this thing which has been making inquiries must be one of them."

At this point, Dr. Thaddeus burst out in a passionate and indignant lament: "Why, oh why, did the Creator conceal from us poor inhabitants of Earth that it was not we who prompted Him to create the Heavens? Throughout my long life, I have served Him diligently, believing that He would notice my service and reward me with Eternal Bliss. And now, it seems that He was not even aware that I existed. You tell me that I am an infinitesimal animalcule on a tiny body revolving round an insignificant member of a collection of three hundred billion stars, which is only one of many millions of such collections. I cannot bear it, and can no longer adore my Creator." "Very well," said the janitor, "then you can go to the Other Place."

Here the theologian awoke. "The power of Satan over our sleeping imagination is terrifying," he muttered.

You are a dying breed, Torog, and hopefully more people will wake up and smell the coffee. Religion, and the pain, suffering and injustices it has caused for millenia, promotes institutionalized fear and hatred of anything different from the believer. I have made a point in my lifetime to help as many people see the true light, a world free to progress morally and scientifically without the silly restraints of 'religious morality'.

[amsterdam]

torogs a dying breed?you must be outta your mind.seriously.

[F L E S H]

Thankfully, church attendance has been going down consistently for a long time, and in the future, despite some spikes here and there, it'll hopefully reach 0 eventually. I sincerely hope that. And I mean all across the world, not just in the US.

[ermitonto]

God is both a loving God and a wrathful God,and He sent His only Son,to deliver a message of unconditional love. I would like to know more about the Amalekites..maybe their culture was so revolting and blasphemous,that God decided to exert His Wrath upon them

I highly doubt every human, every baby, and every animal in that society were so horrible that they deserved to die. If you say they did, I have to question whether you have any sense of the humane.


..after all..in your world of belief,those who oppose God,Jesus Christ and Christianity,can never do anything wrong or immoral..do you not percieve that those who pursue Light,are Evil..and that those who pursue Darkness,are Good ?

I never said that. I'm believe that whether a person is "good" or "evil" are independent of somebody's religious beliefs or lack thereof. I don't believe atheism and good behavior can't coexist, nor do I believe that all religious people are necessarily moral. Certainly there have been evil atheists (Stalin comes to mind), and evil Christians (such as, say, the perpetrators of the Spanish Inquisition), but there are lots more good atheists and good Christians than that. I believe that people are on the whole good creatures. I know you already disagree with that (Original Sin...) and there's no way to change your mind, but it's what I sincerely believe.

[F L E S H]

It's funny, but whenever I read an atheist's point of view, it's always so much more peaceful, accepting, tolerant, loving, and ultimately good, than any religious person's point of view.

[SpiritualExcess]

I do!

I even go to church :O

[amsterdam]

I do!

I even go to church :O


right on,me too! :D

be careful saying that around here,tons and tons of anti-religon finatics around here.

[F L E S H]

right on,me too! :D

be careful saying that around here,tons and tons of anti-religon finatics around here.
What a victim...

[amsterdam]

victim?please.silly canadian.

:rolleyes:

[mellow mood]

lol. shut up man

silly canadian

wtf

we share opinions here (well most of the time) were not "anti religion fanatics"

you voted (or u would) vote for bush. i could call this being a fanatic. but i dont. :)

[NOTEHOOK]

god, yes
organized religion, no

[Mojavpa]

It's funny, but whenever I read an atheist's point of view, it's always so much more peaceful, accepting, tolerant, loving, and ultimately good, than any religious person's point of view.


Yes thats true, but we should really look at how many atheists vs. people of religion who do good in the world, like devoting their lives to helping the poor, etc.. When people think of civil rights and peace activists who had the most impact on the world in the 20th century, people like Martin Luther King(VERY religious) and Gandhi(also believed in a higher power) or Mother Theresa come to mind. Of course, many religious people in power werent very nice people. But the ultimate question is whether an atheist or a person of God is more likely to do good in the world. Sure, a nun might think gays will go to hell, and be pro-life, but if she spends her entire life in Africa making sure kids have clean drinking water, does it really matter?

[NOTEHOOK]

Mother Theresa ect just making up for dumb shit their religions did, like the crusades!

[SpiritualExcess]

Man, people are people, whether they're religious or not.

[Nullific]

I don't know guys...amsterdam has made some good points...

torogs a dying breed?you must be outta your mind.seriously.

be careful saying that around here,tons and tons of anti-religon finatics around here.

victim?please.silly canadian.

Shit those are deep man, fucking deep.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Yes thats true, but we should really look at how many atheists vs. people of religion who do good in the world, like devoting their lives to helping the poor, etc.. When people think of civil rights and peace activists who had the most impact on the world in the 20th century, people like Martin Luther King(VERY religious) and Gandhi(also believed in a higher power) or Mother Theresa come to mind. Of course, many religious people in power werent very nice people. But the ultimate question is whether an atheist or a person of God is more likely to do good in the world. Sure, a nun might think gays will go to hell, and be pro-life, but if she spends her entire life in Africa making sure kids have clean drinking water, does it really matter?

I kind of have to crack up when somebody admits to admiring religous "do-gooders".

If your nuns in Africa, or the organization(s) they represent, deny the people in third world countries the right to have birth control, then they are contributing to the problems of poverty - and all of the diseases that could be prevented with condoms and safe sex. Condemning condoms is not "good" - it's stupid. Africa has, I believe, the highest Aids outbreak in the world. The Church could care less, and tells them to use abstinence.

Mother Theresa's homes for the dying were just that - she believed that people's afterlife was more important than life here on earth. She, however, flew around in jets and was wined and dined by rogues, dictators, and various scoundrels. She turned down a building that was offered to her, to be used as a hospital in NYC, because it had ELEVATORS - she did not believe in them!

The churches opposed most all of the scientific and medical discoveries in the world. It was the men of knowledge, not the superstitious idiocy of anti-human priests that made our life spans go from 20 something in biblical times to what it is today. Next time you need medical care, whom are you going to go to - a doctor or a priest?

Itâ??s the heretics, infidels and other freethinkers that make the world better â?? not the religious. All real progress in the world is outside of religion, not because of it.

Just my opinion.

[Mojavpa]

I kind of have to crack up when somebody admits to admiring religous "do-gooders".

If your nuns in Africa, or the organization(s) they represent, deny the people in third world countries the right to have birth control, then they are contributing to the problems of poverty - and all of the diseases that could be prevented with condoms and safe sex. Condemning condoms is not "good" - it's stupid. Africa has, I believe, the highest Aids outbreak in the world. The Church could care less, and tells them to use abstinence.

Mother Theresa's homes for the dying were just that - she believed that people's afterlife was more important than life here on earth. She, however, flew around in jets and was wined and dined by rogues, dictators, and various scoundrels. She turned down a building that was offered to her, to be used as a hospital in NYC, because it had ELEVATORS - she did not believe in them!

The churches opposed most all of the scientific and medical discoveries in the world. It was the men of knowledge, not the superstitious idiocy of anti-human priests that made our life spans go from 20 something in biblical times to what it is today. Next time you need medical care, whom are you going to go to - a doctor or a priest?

Itâ??s the heretics, infidels and other freethinkers that make the world better â?? not the religious. All real progress in the world is outside of religion, not because of it.

Just my opinion.

Yes, you make some good points, especially that the church contributes to the AIDS problem by denying condoms to people. However, I'm not talking so much about organized religion as those individuals who are motivated to do good in the world because of their faith, or inspired by figures in their religion, whether it be Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, or a Hindu God. Many of these people may not adopt every principle of their religion, but still believe in God, and this drives them to help people.

Remember, I was raising the issue of atheists vs. those who believe in God, because someone wrote that an atheists point of view was more accepting and "good" than a religious person's.

BTW, I wouldnt say that all progress was made outside of religion. You totally discount those achievements by scientists and artists whose work was a result of their faith, such as Isaac Newton. We wouldnt live so long if it wasnt for his achievments in math and science, and look at Bach. Everything he wrote was in the name of God. Any kind of Western music we listen to was directly influenced by him.

I never said that religious people do more good than atheists. Atheists and infidels, in my opinion, ushered in the Enlightenment and were very important in their own right. But progress in the world has been in the sphere of religion and outside of it.

[beachguy in thongs]

Think of people. Us. Think of us getting smaller and de-evolving until we are the first sign of life on Earth. You know, just thinking outside of the box for a minute, what if the Universe preceded God? (how can I say such a thing...?) So, we're back to the first sign of life, now we have to figure out who's the chemist?

[Breukelen advocaat]

Yes, you make some good points, especially that the church contributes to the AIDS problem by denying condoms to people. However, I'm not talking so much about organized religion as those individuals who are motivated to do good in the world because of their faith, or inspired by figures in their religion, whether it be Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, or a Hindu God. Many of these people may not adopt every principle of their religion, but still believe in God, and this drives them to help people.

Remember, I was raising the issue of atheists vs. those who believe in God, because someone wrote that an atheists point of view was more accepting and "good" than a religious person's.

BTW, I wouldnt say that all progress was made outside of religion. You totally discount those achievements by scientists and artists whose work was a result of their faith, such as Isaac Newton. We wouldnt live so long if it wasnt for his achievments in math and science, and look at Bach. Everything he wrote was in the name of God. Any kind of Western music we listen to was directly influenced by him.

I never said that religious people do more good than atheists. Atheists and infidels, in my opinion, ushered in the Enlightenment and were very important in their own right. But progress in the world has been in the sphere of religion and outside of it.
If you do a google search of Isaac Newton, and the word Heretic, you'll get a lot of information. Newton hated organized religion (esp. the Catholic Church), and did not believe in the trinity. He had a lot of strange ideas, which was typical of almost everybody in those times (and ours as well). He was a genius, regardless of his religious beliefs (or lack of). These days, there is no excuse for actions based on theology - other than keeping it out of government.

Since there is no evidence that any "miracle" ever happened, that Christ ever lived (even as a "normal" man), or anybody was ever contacted by a "higher" power, then it is obvious that beliefs in theology and such are forms of mental illness. It is also apparent that the greatest threat to the very existence of the human race originates with the disagreements among the three big monotheistic faiths of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. If rational thinking does not become more widespread, Iâ??m afraid that the future is not going to include our species at some point.

[F L E S H]

Yes, you make some good points, especially that the church contributes to the AIDS problem by denying condoms to people. However, I'm not talking so much about organized religion as those individuals who are motivated to do good in the world because of their faith, or inspired by figures in their religion, whether it be Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, or a Hindu God. Many of these people may not adopt every principle of their religion, but still believe in God, and this drives them to help people.

Remember, I was raising the issue of atheists vs. those who believe in God, because someone wrote that an atheists point of view was more accepting and "good" than a religious person's.

BTW, I wouldnt say that all progress was made outside of religion. You totally discount those achievements by scientists and artists whose work was a result of their faith, such as Isaac Newton. We wouldnt live so long if it wasnt for his achievments in math and science, and look at Bach. Everything he wrote was in the name of God. Any kind of Western music we listen to was directly influenced by him.

I never said that religious people do more good than atheists. Atheists and infidels, in my opinion, ushered in the Enlightenment and were very important in their own right. But progress in the world has been in the sphere of religion and outside of it.
No one can deny that smoe people have done great humanitarian deeds in the name of religion. However, as Breukelen pointed out, I think the progress made in the name Science far outweighs religious good deeds. Religious people will shelter and care for people afflicted with hunger, disease and poverty, but scientists will seek to eradicate these afflictions for good. And I think that in some perverse way, Religion seeks to prevent any sort of significant progress, because it wuold then become irrelevant.

Religion ultimately holds back any sort of real progress. Think back to any scientific breakthrouh since the 16th century and you will see that at every opportunity, religious leaders have inevitably opposed any progress of science, be it in the realm of astronomy, biology, economics, government, physics, you name it.

[SpiritualExcess]

I love all mah brothas, religious or not.

[chosen1]

So which is it? Are the other faiths really HUGELY different, or do they "differ slightly"? It can't be both.



Oh?

http://www.bible.org/netbible/1sa15.htm
Then Samuel said to Saul, â??I was the one the Lord sent to anoint you as king over his people Israel. Now listen to what the Lord says. Here is what the Lord of hosts says: â??I carefully observed how the Amalekites opposed Israel along the way when Israel came up from Egypt. So go now and strike down the Amalekites. Destroy everything that they have. Donâ??t spare them. Put them to deathâ??man, woman, child, infant, ox, sheep, camel, and donkey alike.â??â?�

God orders genocide on the Amalekites because hundreds of years ago their ancestors got in the way of the Israelites when they were trying to cross the desert. And that's unconditional love and forgiveness? Or how about Noah's flood, where God decides to kill every creature on Earth because some humans irritated him, and was persuaded to keep alive two of every species. THAT'S unconditional love and forgiveness? Come on.

Firstly, u thick closed minded backshafter of a nob jockey; I was talking about 2 different things. I was talking about the huge difference between some religions as some don't mention unconditional love etc. im nt goin in2 details. Secondly some religions may slightly differ but stil be similar in many ways i wasn't necessarily talking about the same religions, next time take note of what im quoting then u may be able to fully comprehend what im talking about instead of jumping to ur dumb conclusions which i do not wish to read. *coff* wankshaft *coff* ONE (aka end of discussion aka i do not wish to hear from ur batty boi self again aka please i beg u nah reply aka sekkle ur big ass jaw with the pebbles on the floor)

[chosen1]

**NOTICE**...If you don't agree with me and belive there is a higher power whether you think it's god or someone/something else i beg u nah quote my messages and/or talk to me or make contact with me in any other way shape or form. Ha Ha. Im outy ONE!

[chosen1]

Bruiser i highly reccomend you go to something called faith camp. It's where members of some churches go but u don't necessarily have to go with a church. What happens is a priest comes up to you and puts his hand to your forehead and you feel the power of te holy spirit going through your body, the force is so powerful that you fall onto the floor and you can't get back up untill it's passed it truely is amazing as i've had my doubts about God as everyone has but going to faith camp really made me believe. It's converted many non-believers into beleivers and it's really an experience you wouldn't want to miss.

[Nullific]

Bull
shit.

[F L E S H]

Bruiser i highly reccomend you go to something called faith camp. It's where members of some churches go but u don't necessarily have to go with a church. What happens is a priest comes up to you and puts his hand to your forehead and you feel the power of te holy spirit going through your body, the force is so powerful that you fall onto the floor and you can't get back up untill it's passed it truely is amazing as i've had my doubts about God as everyone has but going to faith camp really made me believe. It's converted many non-believers into beleivers and it's really an experience you wouldn't want to miss.
Cool! An old fashioned brain-washing camp!

[moeburn]

There are no atheists in the trenches of warfare.

[chosen1]

Bull
shit.

your moms bullshit

[Nullific]

You know your God can read everything you post on internet message boards, don't you?

[beachguy in thongs]

I'm gonna start typing in invisible ink.

[SpiritualExcess]

You know your God can read everything you post on internet message boards, don't you?

Not if you cover the windows to your computer room with lead he can't

[moeburn]

This is why i wear tinfoil hats.

[chosen1]

LOL lyk i care

[mrdevious]

I'm starting to believe if there is a god, he teases the majority of us by never letting anything work out, but giving us just enough so we keep believing we can achieve our wants and needs.

[moeburn]

When I was high, I realised that nobody exists and the world is a figment of imagination. My life is simply a video I am playing to myself, I wrote it, everything that happens is happening because I wrote it to.

[mrdevious]

When I was high, I realised that nobody exists and the world is a figment of imagination. My life is simply a video I am playing to myself, I wrote it, everything that happens is happening because I wrote it to.


I think you're smoking the wrong stuff.

[Ozzie]

Yes, I believe in God.

[moeburn]

So many Christians, so few lions...

[nomadherbman]

Originally Posted by moeburn
When I was high, I realised that nobody exists and the world is a figment of imagination. My life is simply a video I am playing to myself, I wrote it, everything that happens is happening because I wrote it to.

its true...

[WalkaWalka]

I beleave in god
I also beleave that the church can eat shit and die. I go to christian youth group becuase the people who do it are not pushers they read a passage and then leave it up to us to interpret it for our selves

[BlazinHaze]

I was "born" Catholic and went through all of the sacraments and attended Catholic school for 9 years. But, I knew by the time I was 12 that I didn't beleive in God anymore, or maybe I never did. All I believe in today is karma, because it has very much been a part of my everyday life.

[weirdo79]

Id really like to believe in Karma However I see things like serial killers and rapists , child molesters etc high level white collar crime. All of which victimizes alot of different groups and such. Yet these people either get a relatively painlless death or a relatively long jail term. Doesnt sound equal to 30 dead and raped (robert picton....too name just one).

[ermitonto]

...that is, if they're caught and convicted. Many aren't. If some universal mechanism of justice existed, none of them would ever get away.

[mrdevious]

There's a Hindu idea of karma and a Buddhist idea of karma.

Hinduism has the whole idea that there's this universal justice system that punishes and rewards everybody.

Buddhism states that karma is influenced by the purity of ones "soul" (note, buddhism doesn't actaully believe in an eternal soul). through evil or good actions, generally how one lives their life, the essence of your consciousness is reincarnated into the a new person (and possibly animal) which most closely relates to your last state of mind. hence, an evil person is likely to return as somebody with a very negative mindset, wheras a virtuous person is more compatible with a pure and peacefull mind. however, "you" are not reincarnated, as there is no permanent "you". the essence of your conscious self becomes a part of the newly born person. also, some buddhist philosophers theorize that troubles left unresolved may influence your karma.

there are varrying views in buddhism, some believing that karma is the univers's courtroom, but I agree with the buddhist philosophy of your final consciousness influencing your next life.

[weirdo79]

I still buy it as much as I buy any of the many fluffy white dudes in the sky with the beards. (zeus , Odin , "god" , the list goes on....)

[moeburn]

I still buy it as much as I buy any of the many fluffy white dudes in the sky with the beards. (zeus , Odin , "god" , the list goes on....)
You forgot the sentient fluffy cloud from Super Mario.

Buddhism is the only religion I can respect. There arent any missionaries, as far as I know, or preachers, which make it that much more attractive. It is about improving yourself, not making sure you get into heaven.

[stoner spirit]

I believe in the Gods, but that's a topic for another day. I converted to Paganism because of many reasons. One of them is because of my parents, especially my mother. She tried to tell me which faith, set of beliefs, god or Gods, and structure to follow. I tried dealing with this, but I truely got tired of the bullshit that everyone around me was pulling off, so one day I packed my shit and got the hell out of the house. They still tried to tell me stuff, but I never listened to them after I moved out. Anyways, I don't think that it makes a difference weather you believe in a god or gods, or not; I think that that's one's own business, not the worlds, although not everybody thinks that way. Those that want to criticize me for converting to Paganism, I don't care, not everyone has your beliefs and views things through the eyes of a medieval person. We don't have priechers, and other people knocking on others' doors handing out pentacles and passing out the Witch's Bible to everyone else. Thank the Gods. If you want to convert to Paganism, good for you, somebody can help you with learning things, but we won't force you to worship the gods.