Politic forum?

[mellow mood]

hey hi Ron or anybody.

well ppl here (like me) often talk bout politics but theres no forum for a such subject and i dont undestand why. so if u could add one Ron that would be great!

thx!

[DonnieDarko]

mellow

did you try the politics section below ???

[mellow mood]

fuck. im really really really stoned. sorry lol.

wow i feel dumb lol

[Hydrizzle]

Hhahah, but the thing is, the politics board is overrun by crazies, which is why I don't post there anymore.... if your lookign for a migrane headache from concentrated stupidity.... then go check out the politics board.

[Button Basher]

Ah what? Don't give up Hydrizzle.

*gang of crazy liberals with glowing eyes*: "come prove us wrong"

[Looker]

The politics board is were you can go and watch Torog and Pisshead duke it out...

Good reading never disappoints...

[amsterdam]

its a blast!!

[Button Basher]

I'd say it's more Pisshead and Amsterdam :D . Poor Pisshead!
Torog's offensive, but in the politest possible way.

[amsterdam]

I'd say it's more Pisshead and Amsterdam :D . Poor Pisshead!
Torog's offensive, but in the politest possible way.

you got that right.

[Funken Monken]

Hhahah, but the thing is, the politics board is overrun by crazies,.
<jk>
Shit yeh!! There's people in there that actually voted for Bush!!

</jk>

[amsterdam]

at to everyones relief he won.

[mellow mood]

ROFL "some ppl there actually voted for Bush" hahahahhaa

[Hydrizzle]

Like 2... and then there are 2 that voted for kerry


wow it's such a diverse and colorful politics board.

[amsterdam]

and to everyones relief W won!

[Hydrizzle]

It's futile, I dont know how you do it, Amsterdam, arguing with those lunatics who think Bush caused 911 intentionally. Also, that aliens are coming and are in cahoots with bush...

[mellow mood]

oh yea man bush knew for 911 for sure. u couldnt even imagine how this guy can be crazy

[BlueCat]

A favorite of mine is Laurence Britt he listed 14 characteristics of a dangerous fascist regime:

1.Obsession with national security:.so how many of you have lost your favorite lighter or those dangerous nail clippers to homeland security?

2.the melding of religion and Government: â??Washington Briefingâ?� March 17-19, 2005. During this event, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) addressed attendees and pledged that Republican leaders in Congress would work to implement the Religious Rightâ??s controversial political agenda... Hmm scared yet?

3.powerful progressive nationalism: Now we all know how hatred unites people. People take satisfaction from the idea that we are good because our enemies are evil. Let's get those evil doers! I heard some women the other day say she hated the Iraqi people that they are bad people...I ask her why and she looked at me as if I were stupid and said they killed all those innocent people in the twin towers.... Tom made me walk away... he literally took my arm and pulled me away! damn damn double damn triple damn HELL!

4.suppressed labor power: well now...ours labor comes from china! but Bush signed his name to four executive orders on organized labor, remember that mess?

5.obsession with crime and punishment..Police officers don't have to give a reason at the time they arrest someone, the U.S. Supreme Court said in a ruling that shields officers from false-arrest lawsuits. .lets handcuff a few more 5 year olds...closet pedophiles...

6.manipulation of election proceedings...LOL not even worth a comment OK I will.. how to rig an election in the US I love this site..http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4031.htm

7. Rampant cronyism and corruption...Bush has cronies? no not him...interesting a synonym of Cronyism = discrimination

8.protection of corporate power...hmm can you say Halliburton,Walmart, Lockheed, oh never mind it would take a month or more...

9.controlled mass media....We all know Fox news reports fairly....

10.rampant sexism...hmmm lets see homophobia, anti pro choice, subservient stepfford wives...for starters

11.use of scapegoats and pubic identification of enemies: CIA leak what leak?, list is too long on this one...ask Ann coulter or hannity they know all about it

12 .disdain for intellectuals and the arts:.A group of more than 60 top U.S. scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates and several science advisers to past Republican presidents, accused the Bush administration of manipulating and censoring science for political purposes.. And we all remember ass-croft covering poor Davids jewels! Where's a calico cat when you need one!

13.Supremacy of the military...how much did we spend again? 400 WHAT?

14. and last but certainly not least....DISDAIN FOR THE RECOGNITION OF HUMAN RIGHTS Let's ask good old Gonzales on this one...naked pyramid anyone? OK don't answer that one..lol

Sinclair Lewis said it best....
"When fascism comes to American it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross...
pretty scary,eh

[Button Basher]

The problem with hydrizzle is he goes in to the political forum expecting everyone to listen to him and change their point of view accordingly.

The point of an argument isn't necessarily to change someones perspective or opinion, what's wrong with sharing it in a constructive manner?
I might lean toward the majority of Liberal opinions on the political forum but at least I can agree to disagree. Ever heard of the word 'priorities'? Much like hydrizzles deal with the Liberals, the Republicans on this site used to irritate the shit out of me to the point it was just depressing, then I toked a joint and simply thought 'well why not?' :cool:

I don't agree with most of Torog's, Amsterdam's, Hydrizzle's opinions (etc) but I can still see where they are coming from. The dumbest thing I can do is get my tutu in a tangle because someone doesn't share my opinion. The most intelligent thing I can do is embrace and consider it.

The very, VERY least I can do is run away in a little girls tantrum reassuring myself i'm right and everyone else is wrong. Luckily i'm smarter then that...

[Torog]

The problem with hydrizzle is he goes in to the political forum expecting everyone to listen to him and change their point of view accordingly.

The point of an argument isn't necessarily to change someones perspective or opinion, what's wrong with sharing it in a constructive manner?
I might lean toward the majority of Liberal opinions on the political forum but at least I can agree to disagree. Ever heard of the word 'priorities'? Much like hydrizzles deal with the Liberals, the Republicans on this site used to irritate the shit out of me to the point it was just depressing, then I toked a joint and simply thought 'well why not?' :cool:

I don't agree with most of Torog's, Amsterdam's, Hydrizzle's opinions (etc) but I can still see where they are coming from. The dumbest thing I can do is get my tutu in a tangle because someone doesn't share my opinion. The most intelligent thing I can do is embrace and consider it.

The very, VERY least I can do is run away in a little girls tantrum reassuring myself i'm right and everyone else is wrong. Luckily i'm smarter then that...
Howdy BB,

Excellent ! There may be hope for you yet ! :)

Believe it or not,I do mostly listen to the other side's opinions..and try to understand whether or not,I'm wrong..I believe that God works in mysterious ways and that He sometimes delivers messages through us..therefore..it's prudent of me,to try and discern if there's a possible message being delivered to me,even if it comes from my detractors.

By discussing the issues with each other,we also define our beliefs and what we stand for..something which is often not tested and is often put on the 'back-burner'..defining ourselves,is also a maturation process,as well.

Have a good one !

[Button Basher]

Right on Torog.

You probably missed it before but let me apologise again for my behaviour last time there was a discussion on firearms in the UK and US. I acted like an immature twat but I think it's my interest in the politics forum alone that has taught me to embrace American culture and it's values. You guys are a lot different from us but I won't hate you for it like most people I know. :)

Let's all just get along for god's sake :rolleyes: .

[DonnieDarko]

I used to be into talkin politics. Then I learned that ALL politics is LIES. It all comes down to what LIES you want to believe. Conservative LIES or Liberal LIES. You never find a conservative telling a liberal : That's a good point, maybe you're right. I think that I'll change my mind and agree with you.

BTW, legalizing MMJ should be a conservative principle. Keeping government out of people/doctor decisions is a conservative principle. So is the (US) state's right to make it's own laws.

OK that's it, I refuse to talk any more politics.

[mellow mood]

Blue cat, all what u said is awesome. i wonder whats Torog point of view bout that? Torog? any answers?

[BlueCat]

Republicans are trying to use the "nuclear option" to seize absolute power and we all know the saying absolute power corrupts absolutely. They will appoint judges who will roll back years of progression protecting the people that keep this country running, we the people, the workers. Judge Janice brown is just one example with her extremist judicial philosophy that calls for courts to block congress in blocking things like guaranteed 40 hour work week,the minimum wage,The Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act and the Endangered Species Act. These judges have no regard to the future of our children, the middle class or the poor. We all know the nuclear option is a trick to eliminate the filibuster.One of the main arguments used by Bill Frist and other conservatives about employing the nuclear option to eliminate the filibuster of judicial nominees is that the Democratic use of the filibuster to oppose judicial nominations is unprecedented. He has called the use of the filibuster to oppose judicial nominees dangerous and radical. On his own website, there is a text of a speech he gave to the Federalist Society on November 11, 2004, where he said:
The Senate now faces a choice: either we accept a new and destructive practice, or we act to restore constitutional balance.
C. Boyden Gray, Chairman of the Committee for Justice, believes that the liberal's use of the filibuster to block judges violates the "constitutional principle of Separation of Powers. The Constitution grants the Executive primary power over judicial appointments while granting the Senate, as a body--not partisan factions within it--a check via majority vote. By altering that standard, the Senate Democrats are, in effect, arrogating power to the Senate from the Executive."
According to Gray, the liberal filibuster of judicial nominees "is absolutely unprecedented. Its history is two years old."
This is, simply put, a big fat LIE!! On March 8, 2000, thirteen Senators, all of whom were Republicans, attempted to filibuster Marsha Berzon for U.S. Circuit judge. You can read the roll call vote right here. Eight of these Senators are currently in the United States Senate: Allard (CO), Brownback (KS), Bunning (KY), Craig (ID), DeWine (OH), Enzi (WY), Inhofe (OK) and Shelby (AL). None of these eight have expressed opposition to the elimination of judicial filibusters, a practice they themselves once tried to engage in. Later that same day, those same thirteen Senators, in addition to Senator Bill Frist, attempted to filibuster the nomination of Richard Paez to US Circuit Judge. Can you spell flip flop?
Conservatives know that thee is a history of attempting to block judicial nominations through the use of the filibuster. They know this because some of them participated in such attempts. Bill Frist (the cat killer google it, it is true by his own admission)participated in one such attempt.
For Republicans, the real principle behind the attempt to destroy the filibuster for judicial nominees has nothing to do with the Constitution, It is, in short, a power grab! They want the world. :mad:
http://www.moveonpac.org/nuclear

[Kombucha]

Howdy BB,

Excellent ! There may be hope for you yet ! :)

Believe it or not,I do mostly listen to the other side's opinions..and try to understand whether or not,I'm wrong..I believe that God works in mysterious ways and that He sometimes delivers messages through us..therefore..it's prudent of me,to try and discern if there's a possible message being delivered to me,even if it comes from my detractors.

By discussing the issues with each other,we also define our beliefs and what we stand for..something which is often not tested and is often put on the 'back-burner'..defining ourselves,is also a maturation process,as well.

Have a good one !

Would you believe me if I told you what I said was a message from God, Torog?

[BlueCat]

Thanks Mellow like your name wish I could be mellow more...lol
answers would be nice too....the brain washed arm chair marines drive me nuts....my son sees the poor kids being killed....They are mostly poor students that want to pay for college or they had some church tell them they would go to heaven if they join see http://www.forceministries.com/ then there are the thousands of guys being maimed. The new helmets actually cause the eyes to expolde and more head injuries. Never in any war has there been so many head injuries. They don't talk about them!!! My son tries to put them back together....he is in the army AND he is anti war. Most people with brains are Anti-war...there is a hell of a lot of difference in serving your country and just wanting to kill people...I get really pissed off....I am proud of my son and I worry every night people like amsterdam and torog unless they are there unless there family is there they need to shut up!
think I'll go mellow out....TTYL
pissed off Cat

[Torog]

Howdy Blue Cat,

Every soldier,should be against war..but they should also understand..that Freedom ain't free..and to sit by and do nothing-while others suffer under brutal oppression..is wrong. Your son,should direct his anger,towards those who attacked America..and therefore,the Free World. He should be angry at cowardly,muslim jihadists,who disguise themselves as women and civilians..and will murder children,to accomplish their goals of jihad and Darfur.

Have a good one....

[amsterdam]

i pray every night their aim is true.thanks to all who serve.

thats why i donated 1000$$ at x-mas to sniper units in iraq.that way everytime i hear of a dead terrorist insurgent i can smile and give a little chuckle hoping that i bought some piece of the equipment that helped.

[mellow mood]

wow

thats bad


really

[amsterdam]

i dont donate to buy bb guns.i bought a scope,a bunch of ammo,camo suits,etc.etc

[amsterdam]

wow

thats bad


really


maybe we should arm our snipers with sling shots.or as zell miller put it best,"what are we supposed to fight with,spitballs?"

[BlueCat]

Howdy Blue Cat,

Every soldier,should be against war..but they should also understand..that Freedom ain't free..and to sit by and do nothing-while others suffer under brutal oppression..is wrong. Your son,should direct his anger,towards those who attacked America..and therefore,the Free World. He should be angry at cowardly,muslim jihadists,who disguise themselves as women and civilians..and will murder children,to accomplish their goals of jihad and Darfur.

Have a good one....

Ok I won't waste my time here the debate would be fruitless if you think it is l the muslims he should be mad at. Iraq had nothing to do with 911 that was OSAMA BIN LADEN big friend of the Bush family remember them they live in SAUDI ARABIA where 98% of the terrorist come from but hey we like them so we will attack the weakest link and kill those people even though they had nothing to do with it. Yes there is bombs going off but they are not from Iraqis notice the violence has gotten worse because of THE INSURUGENTS coming from other contries hence the name "insurge" Bush just picked the playing field but he is too big a pussy to be there himself once the real enimey started coming into the country. You don't even know who your enemy is.....get an education. As for using saving them as a reason to invade a country...it is bullshit and I don't want to hear it...1st it was WMD now those poor people need help there are people in North Korea , China ,Africa that have needed saving a lot longer if that is "Our job" why Iraq? My son has his head on straight, don't you even begin to give him advice, you don't worry about him. what is YOUR military experience?...are you too old to sign up whats the problem? whats stopping you? If your disabled I am sure you have a brother or sister you can talk into this war you beleive in so much.. You can talk about it....well big man... or woman as the case may be recruiters are everywhere put up or shut up..

[BlueCat]

or maybe we should aim at hallibuton and their ass lickers....

[amsterdam]

good one,very clever.

[BlueCat]

so why donate money at all...why not your self? whats stopping you from taking out those insurgence and saving the world? Why send others to do a job you love so well...nothing like seeing a MPG take the head off your buddy while you are shooting at insurgences....get this he raised his hand as if to stop it before it hit him...that poor child of 19 and with todays technology they get it all on film...WOW! Bet you just love that....THe insurgences will leave the country once we get our asses out!!!! We want the oil...this deal has been worked out with the suadis for a long time... We don't belong there it is that simple...we did not belong in vietnam either...why don't you do a little research instead of getting yourself off on killing people
your one sick puppy....

[amsterdam]

i tried to join the marine corps in '03 but was denied because i had a criminal record.so i get involved in other ways.

the insurgents wont leave when we do.thats why the iraqis havent asked us to leave.the terrorists want to set up an islamic state.thats why we are there.to kill them.give them their wish.

[amsterdam]

so why donate money at all...why not your self? whats stopping you from taking out those insurgence and saving the world? Why send others to do a job you love so well...nothing like seeing a MPG take the head off your buddy while you are shooting at insurgences....get this he raised his hand as if to stop it before it hit him...that poor child of 19 and with todays technology they get it all on film...WOW! Bet you just love that....THe insurgences will leave the country once we get our asses out!!!! We want the oil...this deal has been worked out with the suadis for a long time... We don't belong there it is that simple...we did not belong in vietnam either...why don't you do a little research instead of getting yourself off on killing people
your one sick puppy....


you obviously no nothing about the military.the vietnam war was 40 years ago??GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!is that where you learned those big words like quagmire??

RPG,INSURGENTS,WAR,ETC.

[amsterdam]

go preach that liberal bullshit somewhere else.try the dailykos or the aclu.com

[BlueCat]

you obviously no nothing about the military.the vietnam war was 40 years ago??GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!is that where you learned those big words like quagmire??

RPG,INSURGENTS,WAR,ETC.

WTF big words? I married a man 27 years older than me he was in vietnam...My daughter married a marine and my son is in the army those are words you hear....unless you are just an arm chair soldier with a big mouth !!!History tends to repeat itself "when we get over it" You are my case in point...

[BlueCat]

Bullshit my son in law had a felony charge and they took him....try again...

[BlueCat]

go preach I want to kill all the muslims elsewhere try...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/browse
you'll love it there...
I don't have anymore time for you little girl I'm gone I have better things to do you go back to playing your war games

[amsterdam]

believe me ,i tried.

i dont know how the actual planning of the war should go,i am not a general,but i support the war,i support the troops,and i support them shooting muslim finatics who wish them harm.

i guy in our office served in fallujah and said he had a blast!he has some great home movies and pictures.they really mopped up.

step aside bleeding heart,let the men do the work.

[BlueCat]

By any chance are the names Hitler, Beelsebub, Belial in your family tree?

[Hydrizzle]

Is wanting to kill the muslims really so bad, since they seem to want to kill us so bad... at least we onyl kill the people who are shooting at us... unlike them who slaughters innocents for being affiliated with the reconstruction. I know you will say that our soldiers are INTENTIONALLY shooting civilians, but that's just ignorant, so don't say that.

[BlueCat]

you don't kill someone for being MUSLIM there are extremists in all religions lets see there is the Christian Jim Jones remember the People's Temple kool aid drinkers 900 americans dead....or the heavens gaters or the guy in Waco texas....why don't we just start attacking anyone that belongs to a Christain church? you can't blame a whole religion on the actions of extremists...
and they the insurgents would not be there...they never would have surged into the country of Iraq if Bush had not invaded with a lie....I don't understand your problem it has already been proven that he lied, they lied, there are no weapons of mass destruction...in the mean time North Korea is setting up to kick our ass and we are putting out oil fires. Man thats one great leader you got there...
Here is another interesting thing you might explain to me....Bush's choice for the Dept. of Labor...you do know who is running your government right? Elaine Chao? SHe was VP of Bank of America her dad owns almost all the banks in China...communist china I might add....her daddy is best friends with Jiang Zemin...you know him right? Tell me how our country is secure when the Dept. of Labor Sec. with full security clearance is related to the communist president of China....anyone?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21327

or why communist china with all its human right s violations is A OK but communist Cuba that won't let walmart in.... is BAD? anyone?
Hey red is a good color for you republicans...

[Kombucha]

Oh, Amsterdam, haven't I already proved to you that liberalism does not equal "stupid."

Being liberal does not mean "being a pussy" or liking terrorists, it means accepting other ideas. Conservative means "having a stick up your arse" and generally believing that you are perfect. I know which one I'd rather be.

You are so damned brainwashed. You donated $1000 dollars to snipers??? What an idiot. Where do you think your taxes go? Donate it to something worthwhile like a charity you bloody redneck.

I believe we should have got rid of Saddam Hussein, but that quite clearly has been achieved. Sure, terrorists are total arseholes, but Americans in Iraq are causing just as many innocent deaths because of their paranoia and general interest in "killin' stuff." Of course, all your news programmes that try to turn real life in a Schwarzenegger film don't tell you that do they? Because they know that doesn't get good ratings.

[Kombucha]

you obviously no nothing about the military.


I bet you do though. I bet you know the names of all the guns and all the tanks. I wish I had your fountain of military knowledge. Your are so cool.


the vietnam war was 40 years ago??


Is that a question or what?

It's still a lesson worth learning. Is it ok to murder "untermenschen" now too? I mean, Hitler was 60 years ago, it doesn't matter anymore right?



is that where you learned those big words like quagmire??


Do you really think "quagmire" is a big word?



RPG,INSURGENTS,WAR,ETC.

Wow... that added a lot to your post.

[mellow mood]

u guys dont seem to get, well amsterdamn in any case. what is related to 911 with iraq anyway?? theres no fuckin any type of relation. and yes as bluecat said the good oussama ben laden family is a good friend of bush, and this gentle president paid a private jet for em the day after 911 happened. dont u get all the fuckin thing?

a fuckin whole bunch of army comes into your country, pretending theyre gonna free you from a bad leader (yes Saddam is a fuckin dick, still is this their fuckin buisness??).

so USA spend over 100, or even more (dont know the exact number) of billions of $$$$ to free iraq from saddam and to find massive destructive weapons??? wtf?? im not a liberal, by the way, but whats the point of all this? dont u understand why iraquiens burned the oil they got????

BECAUSE THI IS THE GOAL OF BUSH, OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL

and how many countries axtually have nuclear weapons? 50? 100?

so WHY ATTACK IRAQ, WHATS THE POINT???? PROTECT AMERICA??? FROM FUCKIN WHAT??? THEY FOUND NO FUCKIN NUCLEAR WEAPONS, AND NOW THEY ARE STILL THERE, WHY??? TO CONTROL THE FUCKIN OIL

dont ask yourself why the new iraq president is OF COURSE a pro-american. oh yea gentle mr BUSH take all the oil u want. thats it. Bush is affiliated with oil companies to make profit. YES TO MAKE PROFIT. HE DOESNT CARE BOUT AMERICANS, OR YOU. HE CARE ABOUT HIS MONEY. HE SLAUGTHERED MILLIONS OF INNOCENTS, AND HES STEALIN THEIR OIL, THEIR GOVERNMENT, EVERYTHING. AND U THINK NOW PPL WONT REBEL? IS THIS PROTECTING AMERICA??? REALLY? ANSWER ME

[EverydayJunglist]

lol quagmire

[Hydrizzle]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

[Kombucha]

I seem to be turning into Amsterdam... all I saw in that last post was "blah..."

[amsterdam]

what was the connection??seriously?zarqawi had a training camp there before the war.

theres your connection.this war is gonna last a long time(20 years maybe),put your boots on.

[amsterdam]

I seem to be turning into Amsterdam... all I saw in that last post was "blah..."


what else are you supposed to say to the bush=hitler high school comments.

blah,blah,blah thats what you say. :cool:

[Kombucha]

Bush isn't actually Hitler, but he's invading countries for no good reason, inciting racial hatred (although admittedly not as directly as Hitler did) and generally being a cock. Not too far off.

And by the way, why is it that you conservatives are so obsessed with republicans and Bush, always thinking they're right, but you still claim that you need guns incase your governement attacks you?

What do you think you're gonna do if they do attack you anyway? Do you really think a load of middle-aged men with their handguns and shotguns are going to be able to stop a (badly) trained army?

Tanks versus wannabe Arnies... hmm... I'd pay to see that.

[amsterdam]

a badly trained army??hahahahahathat was the stupidist thing i have ever seen posted.SON,we have the best, most powerful fighting force on the face of the earth.thats why we can go wherever the fuck we want and do whatever the fuck we please/ :cool:

[Hydrizzle]

blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah blah blabbity blah


and, in closing...... BLAH

[Kombucha]

a badly trained army??hahahahahathat was the stupidist thing i have ever seen posted.SON,we have the best, most powerful fighting force on the face of the earth.thats why we can go wherever the fuck we want and do whatever the fuck we please/ :cool:

No, you have the most expensive army in the world. The reason you can go wherever the fuck you please is because you spend a lot of money on your forces, that's all. If all of Europe actually joined forces to fight America (assuming no nukes were involved) you'd be fucked.

US Military deaths in Iraq: 1650
UK Military deaths in Iraq: 86

And no, even if you consider the differences in the numbers of troops actually there, it doesn't work out even. And don't give me shit about the US being in a more dangerous position either.

[amsterdam]

you said it yourself about numbers and location so i know you know that already.

yea,europe is gonna attack america,send in the french!!lol.

[mellow mood]

lol read it maybe it wont seem like blah blah

[amsterdam]

humor me.

[Kombucha]

yea,europe is gonna attack america,send in the french!!lol.

LOL!!!

[amsterdam]

there would be armpit hair and stank ass people everywhere!!!!!!!!!!AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Kombucha]

That was a sarcastic "lol" by the way.

[amsterdam]

i wasnt sarcastic at all.

[Kombucha]

No, but I was. I was taking the piss out of your idiot post.

[yocass]

short and sweet. We arent in iraq for oil. UK couldnt touch americas army. And very few countries have nuclear weapons, iraq never was even thought to had them. duh. I know this would be a longshot for you guys... but would you mind.. hmm I dont know, BACK anything that shits out of your mouth? And... to whoever was saying that the military people were just in it for college money... why the FUCK would you sign up for a job where your mission is to kill people and defend you country and follow orders unquestionably, if you dont want to kill people, defend your country, and follow orders? WHY WHY WHY And about the oild thing since people keep sayin that on here... is there one incy bit of evidence we are making any profit from oil? any at all?

[Kombucha]

I never said the UK could beat America's army, but it could do some damage. What I did say was that Europe as a whole could beat America.

[yocass]

Ill admit to a possibility. It would probably be a fair fight at least.

[BlueCat]

We are getting it kicked in Iraq already....some facts on the military in Iraq ...and Yes Yocass...the military parks its ass at High schools and hands out videos about how cool the Army of One is..how they can have $70,000 to go to school it traps young people into deals.....many teachers have complained about their tactics. They don't join to kill people. They were told they were preventing nuclear war and that they would be welcomed with flowers and candy...
Things are terrible there...we can either pull out and except defeat or enlist the draft...it doesn't look like the Bush Admin is going to give up and pull out...did anyone hear Jeb Bush and his comment about Never running from a dangerous situation? He is as stupid as his brother...ok I'll just stand in my house as it burns down....wonder if he ever heard of Custer's last stance?

some facts from Juan Cole Mid-east analyist Univ. Mich.

The US military cannot defeat the Sunni Arab guerrilla movement any time soon for so many reasons that they cannot all be listed.

The guerrillas have widespread popular support in the Sunni Arab areas of Iraq, an area with some 4 million persons. Its cities and deserts offer plenty of cover for an unconventional war. Guerrilla movements can succeed if more than 40 percent of the local population supports them. While the guerrillas are a small proportion of Iraqis, they are very popular in the Sunni Arab areas. If you look at it as a regional war, they probably have 80 percent support in their region.

The guerrillas are mainly Iraqi Sunnis with an intelligence or military background, who know where secret weapons depots are containing some 250,000 tons of missing munitions, and who know how to use military strategy and tactics to good effect. They are well-funded and can easily get further funding from Gulf millionnaires any time they like.

The Iraqi guerrillas are given tactical support by foreign jihadi fighters. There are probably only a few hundred of them, but they are disproportionately willing to undertake very dangerous attacks, and to volunteer as suicide bombers.

There are simply too few US troops to fight the guerrillas. There are only about 70,000 US fighting troops in Iraq, they don't have that much person-power superiority over the guerrillas. There are only 10,000 US troops for all of Anbar province, a center of the guerrilla movement with a population of 820,000. A high Iraqi official estimated that there are 40,000 active guerrillas and another 80,000 close supporters of them. The only real explanation for the successes of the guerrillas is that the US military has been consistently underestimating their numbers and abilities.
The guerillas have enormous advantages, of knowing the local clans and terrain and urban quarters, of knowing Arabic, and of being local Muslims who are sympathetic figures for other Muslims. American audiences often forget that the US troops in Iraq are mostly clueless about what is going on around them, and do not have the knowledge base or skills to conduct effective counter-insurgency. Moreover, as foreign, largely Christian occupiers of an Arab, Muslim, country, they are widely disliked and mistrusted outside Kurdistan.

US military tactics, of replying to attacks with massive force, have alienated ever more Sunni Arabs as time has gone on. Fallujah was initially quiet, until the US military fired on a local demonstration against the stationing of US troops at a school (parents worried about their children being harmed if there was an attack). Mosul was held up as a model region under Gen. Petraeus, but exploded into long-term instability in reaction to the November Fallujah campaign. The Americans have lost effective control everywhere in the Sunni Arab areas. Even a West Baghdad quarter like Adhamiyah is essentially a Baath republic. Fallujah is a shadow of its former self, with 2/3s of its buildings damaged and half its population still refugeees, and is kept from becoming a guerrilla base again only by draconian methods by US troops that make it "the world's largest gated community." The London Times reports that the city's trade is still paralyzed.

So far the new pro-American Iraqi troops have not distinguished themselves against the guerrillas, and it will probably be at least 3-5 years before they can begin doing so, if ever. Insofar as the new army is disproportionately Shiite and Kurdish, it may simply never have the resources to penetrate the Sunni Arab center-north effectively. There is every reason to believe that the new Iraqi military is heavily infiltrated with sympathizers of the guerrillas.

The guerrilla tactic of fomenting civil war among Iraq's ethnic communities, which met resistance for the first two years, is now bearing fruit. There is increasing evidence of Shiite murders of Sunni clerics and worshippers, and of Sunni attacks on Shiites, beyond the artificial efforts of the guerrillas themselves. Civil war and turbulence benefit the guerrillas, who gain cover for violent attacks, and who can offer themselves to the Iraqis as the only force capable of keeping order. AP reports an Iraqi official saying today that there is a civil war going on in the northern city of Telafar between Sunnis and Shiites. I doubt US television news is even mentioning it.

The political process in Iraq has been a huge disaster for the country. The Americans emphasized ethnicity in their appointments and set a precedent for ethnic politics that has deepened over time. The Shiite religious parties, Dawa and the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, won the January 30 elections. These are the parties least acceptable to the Sunni Arab heartland. The Sunni Arabs are largely absent in parliament, only have one important cabinet post, and only have two members in the 55-member constitutional drafting committee. Deep debaathification has led to thousands of Sunnis being fired from their jobs for simply having belonged to the Baath Party, regardless of whether they had ever done anything wrong. They so far have no reason to hope for a fair shake in the new Iraq. Political despair and the rise of Shiite death squads that target Sunnis are driving them into the arms of the guerrillas.

The quality of leadership in Washington is extremely bad. George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, and outgoing Department of Defense officials Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, have turned in an astonishingly poor performance in Iraq. Their attempt to demonstrate US military might has turned into a showcase for US weakness in the face of Islamic and nationalist guerrillas, giving heart to al-Qaeda and other unconventional enemies of the United States.If the US drew down its troop strength in Iraq too rapidly, the guerrillas would simply kill the new political class and stabilizing figures such as Grand Ayatollah Sistani. Although US forces have arguably done more harm than good in many Sunni Arab areas, they have prevented set-piece battles from being staged by ethnic militias, and they have prevented a number of attempted assassinations.

In an ideal world, the United States would relinquish Iraq to a United Nations military command, and the world would pony up the troops needed to establish order in the country in return for Iraqi good will in post-war contract bids. But that is not going to happen for many reasons. George W. Bush is a stubborn man and Iraq is his project, and he is not going to give up on it. And, by now the rest of the world knows what would await its troops in Iraq, and political leaders are not so stupid as to send their troops into a meat grinder.

Therefore, I conclude that the United States is stuck in Iraq for the medium term, and perhaps for the long term. The guerrilla war is likely to go on a decade to 15 years. Given the basic facts, of capable, trained and numerous guerrillas, public support for them from Sunnis, access to funding and munitions, increasing civil turmoil, and a relatively small and culturally poorly equipped US military force opposing them, led by a poorly informed and strategically clueless commander-in-chief who has made himself internationally unpopular, there is no near-term solution.

In the long run, say 15 years, the Iraqi Sunnis will probably do as the Lebanese Maronites did, and finally admit that they just cannot remain in control of the country and will have to compromise. That is, if there is still an Iraq at that point.




This is very upsetting to me because I thought I might get my son home soon....
Sadden Cat

[Torog]

Howdy Blue Cat,

you lament: "This is very upsetting to me because I thought I might get my son home soon.... "
Sadden Cat

I hope and pray,that your son will come home soon,safe and sound..and whole.

As for the piece from the liberal proffessor in Michigan,it's a load of total rubbish,designed to demoralize and destroy the will of Americans,to fight the enemy.

In fact,Juan Cole is attacking your son's courage,intelligence and bravery..why would you endorse that ?

Have a good one....

[Kombucha]

What a load of crap!!

LIBERALS DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY HATE AMERICA.

YOU CAN BE AMERICAN, LIBERAL AND PATRIOTIC.

LIBERALS DO NOT SUPPORT VIOLENCE ANY MORE THAN CONSERVATIVES DO. IN FACT, THEY TEND TO BE OPPOSED TO VIOLENCE.

[mellow mood]

wow

blue cat is really a political machine gun!!!!

haha

[BlueCat]

Torog...my son will not be home because of people like you that allow this war to go on...the boys want to come home and the Iraqis don't want us there...As for Juan Cole...he has been right with everything he has said since before the war began...do you really read him? He wrote in depth on who could have peacefully made the governmental transistion before the first Iraqi governing council was elected...He said Shistani should be in charge...if you follow the war you'll note that when Sistani left the country for heart surgery....things got worse....One of the Insurgents and his men were holding up a mosque and a cache of weapons...Sistani came back early, walked into the mosque talked the guy into giving up his weapons and getting out. He was powerful enough to keep things in line if they had allow it...instead it was the murdering Paul Bremer...he put in charge...the man was not even Iraqi!

Why do you agree with a war that was started on a lie...
Why would you endorse a commander in Chief that sent his men into war poorly prepared? This is a fact...try doing a search on the head injuries in this war and the injuries from lack of armor...
Why are you so smug in thinking only Bush and your way can be the right one....have you bothered to listen to the rest of the WORLD?
Have you bother to read what the rest of Europe, central america, asia, or south america thinks about this war? Or do other countries only count when they are primed for invading?
Cat

[mellow mood]

once your 45 years old, u grew up in texas, your surrounded by rednecks, and u have always been used to think such things, i guess he wont say yes in fact im wrong. u cannot change the mind of someone, except when hes still young. but right on bluecat, what do u have to say torog? isnt it that hard to admit this war is based on lies?

[BlueCat]

the sad thing is I don't think he will admit it was started on lies.....ever...
but I won't stop trying... :)

so how is your weekend going so far?

[BlueCat]

a report on the state of the Iraq war posted on the Pentagon Website on 2004-12-13,

Some of the things it says, quoted verbatim, are:

â??The U.S. Government does not understand the problem. The problem isn't one of disseminating information or crafting the right message. It's a problem of credibility and we don't have any.â?�

~ Pentagon Defense Science Board Report 2004-12-13.
â??There is no yearning among Muslim â??massesâ?? to be liberated by the US. Their desire is to be liberated from what they see as the tyrannies that the U.S. promotes and defends.â?�

~ Pentagon Defense Science Board Report 2004-12-13.
â??The creation of the Department of Homeland Security and the passage of the Patriot Act was an obsolete, Cold War-style response to the new terrorist threat.â?�

~ Pentagon Defense Science Board Report 2004-12-13.
â??U.S. public diplomacy is in a crisis. Missing are strong leadership, strategic direction, adequate coordination, sufficient resources, and a culture of measurement and evaluation. Public diplomacy could be a powerful asset with stronger Presidential leadership. We need a new vision and new structures that have bipartisan congressional funding and support.â?�
~ Pentagon Defense Science Board Report 2004-12-13.

The report diplomatically says that George Bush totally screwed up the Iraq war. Citizens of every country but America, especially Muslims, saw how the Bush Administration lied about having proof of WMDs and the Ba'athist-connection with al Qaeda to justify the invasion of Iraq, which resulted in hideous deaths of over a hundred thousand civilian Iraqis, mostly children and the maiming of an order of magnitude more.

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf

[andruejaysin]

OK, so robbing third world countries of there natural resources is bad? Or am I making? this to complicated?

[BlueCat]

OK, so robbing third world countries of there natural resources is bad? Or am I making? this to complicated?

WTF kind of question is that?