Expert advice needed please!

[HubCap]

6'3", 235lbs
Last used Tuesday evening.
Hadn't smoked in a long long time
due to possible random tests at work.
Current job does not test. SO I grew a few a few plants, harvested that about 6 weeks ago. I have smoked every night and most of the day on my off time.

In a strange turn of events I applied for a job, was interviewed & offered the job in the course of 2 days. I have a test next weds. That will only a week of abstaining. Took a home test &I of course failed last night.

Here is the big problem. I am a paramedic. A failed rest will follow me e is a career ender.

Help



I do not know how I will be tested, just that it is a physical &I toxof screen at concentra in Oregon.

I have never been dirty for any test for EMS so I never had to cheat. When I was younger I drank the potions for jobs like ski patrol &I always passed. I have read all the dilution threads and now understand that's really how I passed.

[SlinkyDinky]

If you've been smoking religiously for 6 weeks, then you've most probably packed our fat full of THC. If they're going to test your urine, you're more than likely going to have checked for validity. If you can't miss this job opportunity, and you have to be tested on Wednesday, my opinion is that you're not going to be clean in any natural method. Your frequency of use and body mass makes it impossible for my brain to even entertain the possibility of you being clean in a week's time.

So that leaves us with the improbability of you naturally detoxing, and the big chance that they will know you diluted if you choose to go that way (tox screen will contain a sample validity test, I'm almost positive...pun not intended). I don't know, can't you NOT go for this job, due to the fact that it will haunt your career if you fail your test ?

[HubCap]

They moved their timeline up considerably AFTER I accepted and gave notice at my job. Rock and a hardplace right now.

I have never subbed before. No chance of ne flying in out there with a bottle of clean piss and then keeping it viable for 4the days so that leaves synthetic. How reliable us that stuff?

[SlinkyDinky]

To be honest, and I don't know how spot on my analysis of your case is, you're only left with dilution. Dilution coupled with Vitamin B and creatinine supplementation would be your best bet, since you can't skip this job and you don't have enough time to naturally detox. I don't have much specific information on synthetic pee, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

[halo09]

To be honest, and I don't know how spot on my analysis of your case is, you're only left with dilution. Dilution coupled with Vitamin B and creatinine supplementation would be your best bet, since you can't skip this job and you don't have enough time to naturally detox. I don't have much specific information on synthetic pee, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

I absolutely disagree with this, and would never recommend relying on dilution. It does not work. It should only be used as a stalling mechanism in a worst case scenario type situation.

Understand first there is dilution, and there is also providing a well hydrated sample. Two very different things. Creatine loading only works with a well hydrated sample for when you 'may' be clean or are are borderline could go either way. Creatine loading for a well hydrated sample is recommended. Creatine loading when providing a diluted sample, makes absolutely no sense.

The whole point of dilution is to flood your system so that you are urinating virtually only the liquid that you ingested. Do the math, if you are drinking enough to erase virtually all metabolic instances of THC-COOH in your urine, good luck keeping creatinine in it. No matter how much you've taken. Best case, you'll come back 'negative dilute' - this isn't failing, but it's certainly not passing.

You absolutely should be subbing here with someone's clean urine, or synthetic. Both are reliable options. I'd recommend the Canadian version of Quick Fix 5.7-1 with uric acid. Very high success rate.

You will find some out there that disagree with me on dilution. But I can tell you I have done extensive research on creatine and have real world experience with it. I urge you to research dilution thoroughly before relying it. I would absolutely never recommend dilution, and certainly not in your situation.

[HubCap]

I absolutely disagree with this, and would never recommend relying on dilution. It does not work. It should only be used as a stalling mechanism in a worst case scenario type situation.

Understand first there is dilution, and there is also providing a well hydrated sample. Two very different things. Creatine loading only works with a well hydrated sample for when you 'may' be clean or are are borderline could go either way. Creatine loading for a well hydrated sample is recommended. Creatine loading when providing a diluted sample, makes absolutely no sense.

The whole point of dilution is to flood your system so that you are urinating virtually only the liquid that you ingested. Do the math, if you are drinking enough to erase virtually all metabolic instances of THC-COOH in your urine, good luck keeping creatinine in it. No matter how much you've taken. Best case, you'll come back 'negative dilute' - this isn't failing, but it's certainly not passing.

You absolutely should be subbing here with someone's clean urine, or synthetic. Both are reliable options. I'd recommend the Canadian version of Quick Fix 5.7-1 with uric acid. Very high success rate.

You will find some out there that disagree with me on dilution. But I can tell you I have done extensive research on creatine and have real world experience with it. I urge you to research dilution thoroughly before relying it. I would absolutely never recommend dilution, and certainly not in your situation.

Thank you for the advice everyone, please keep it coming.
just like everyone else in these threads, im freaking out right now!

Can I buy a good product in Portland? I have the tests are harder in Oregon, is this true?

I am very inexperienced with this, I haven't worried about passing a drug test for over 10a years

[halo09]

How much time do you have? I'm fairly certain that Oregon does indeed check for uric acid, aka urea. This is why you must ensure your synthetic contains uric acid.

Multiple brands do contain uric acid. However, the Quick fix I mentioned previously is what is most commonly used and I would feel very confident using it. Canadian Quick Fix 5.7-1

All that 'Canadian' means is that it contains Uric Acid. This is because Canada was the first place to begin testing for uric acid as a way to differentiate synthetics from human voids without using genetic testing, as a way to remain legal by their national regulations, as well as ours. (US federal - genetic testing in urinalysis' for pre-employment is not legal)

Depending on your timeline for your test, I would recommend just buying it online directly from the manufacturer. I'd link you, but it isn't allowed here. Some simple googling around should yield you the proper results.

As for subbing though, the key to success is to practice. And then practice a little more. Then practice again. Synthetics will pass the lab, it's the temperature check that people fail on. Research all you can, ask all the questions you can think of. I visit here regularly and will be very happy to lend a hand. But at the end of the day, research is your closest ally.

I'll keep checking in on your thread though man, let me know if you have any questions :)

[HubCap]

Thanks halo
as for time, test is weds at noon. Today is Sunday. I just arrived in Oregon and was able to find a head shop still open. All they had was dr green agent x formula 8.0
Guy said he's worked there for a year, sold it alot, and nobody has told HIM that they failed.

My biggest concerns are 1) the uric acid (test is in Oregon but I think sent to labcorp. I have heard Oregon tests for uric acid. And 2 ) the physical.. no idea which test is first, how "invasive", etc. Id think that a bottle of fake pee hitting the floor when I drop my pants to "turn & cough" would be a bad day. Also worried about getting separated from my clothing (dropping UA wearing only the exam gown)

Anyone use agent x or done the toxic/physical at concentra in Oregon?


How much time do you have? I'm fairly certain that Oregon does indeed check for uric acid, aka urea. This is why you must ensure your synthetic contains uric acid.

Multiple brands do contain uric acid. However, the Quick fix I mentioned previously is what is most commonly used and I would feel very confident using it. Canadian Quick Fix 5.7-1

All that 'Canadian' means is that it contains Uric Acid. This is because Canada was the first place to begin testing for uric acid as a way to differentiate synthetics from human voids without using genetic testing, as a way to remain legal by their national regulations, as well as ours. (US federal - genetic testing in urinalysis' for pre-employment is not legal)

Depending on your timeline for your test, I would recommend just buying it online directly from the manufacturer. I'd link you, but it isn't allowed here. Some simple googling around should yield you the proper results.

As for subbing though, the key to success is to practice. And then practice a little more. Then practice again. Synthetics will pass the lab, it's the temperature check that people fail on. Research all you can, ask all the questions you can think of. I visit here regularly and will be very happy to lend a hand. But at the end of the day, research is your closest ally.

I'll keep checking in on your thread though man, let me know if you have any questions :)

[HubCap]

Box doesn't indicate if it has uric acid

[halo09]

Box doesn't indicate if it has uric acid

I would get on the phone with the manufacturer and provide the batch number and confirm with them that it does in fact have uric acid. If you can't be certain that it does, over nighting a synthetic that does contain uric acid is absolutely do able.

Might try googling a bit too on what you bought. As for it having uric acid, I do not know. But I do know I've seen a high success rate with the Agent X.

As for the physical, that always makes things tough. You'll have to use your best judgement on that and see how sneaky you can get.

[HubCap]

Updates

DOT screen/physical for sure.
Called Dr Green today &I got voice mail. Said I need to know exactly what's in agent x. Guy called me back in 5the minutes. He gave the "before you say anything I can't discuss anything illegal "Except speech and then said that it does contain urea. I asked about other proteins and markers and said that they ship the right products to the right states so if you use the product in the state you bought it in you'll do fine. Wouldn't get too deep with me. But this tied into what the shop guy said about "sometimes we have to get these from canada"

So I am semi reassured. But still very concerned about the physical, being separated from my clothes.
Wish I could find more actual users of agent x.

I was clean for well over a decade &I fucked up. This is literally the job of a lifetime and happened so fast I had no time to prepare. If I get thru this intact I will never be in this situation again. If I don't get thru I honestly don't know what ill do.

[halo09]

Didn't realize this would be a DOT test, meaning you are good one way or the other on uric acid. Still good to have it though.

I can't say a whole lot about the physical part though unfortunately, just going to have to play it by ear and see the circumstances and your options when you get there. I would plan on being able to sneak in the synthetic but also you be going in completely diluted naturally. Not in the hopes of passing, but of getting a 'negative dilute' which should allow you to retest. Obviously this is last resort worst case scenario if for some reason you aren't able to use your synthetic.

[halo09]

Do you know if you'll be giving a urine sample as part of the physical as well? (As in separate from the drug screen urinalysis)

[HubCap]

Don't know about urine as part of physical, have heard both. Guy went today and said no blood draw, peed in cup, hernia exam... that worries me as far as crouching. But I assume they wont watch me pee or change to gown (if I even gown up).

[Burnt Toast]

Don't know about urine as part of physical, have heard both. Guy went today and said no blood draw, peed in cup, hernia exam... that worries me as far as crouching. But I assume they wont watch me pee or change to gown (if I even gown up). If theres a physical involved, you will be asked to change into a gown under Part 40, Section 40.61 of the DOT regulations:


(3) You must not ask the employee to remove other clothing (e.g., shirts, pants, dresses, underwear), to remove all clothing, or to change into a hospital or examination gown (unless the urine collection is being accomplished simultaneously with a DOT agency-authorized medical examination).

Source: DOT Rule 49 CFR Part 40 Section 40.61 | Department of Transportation (http://www.dot.gov/odapc/part40/40_61)

[HubCap]

*gulp*

Have read every thing I can about subbing (never had to do this) but i am most worried about the bottle being discovered. Any suggestions that I might not have come across?

Also- THANK YOU to this community for all the help and honest information. As you know wading thru all "broscience" is daunting.

And a specific thank you to burnt toast. You are good people! I have read hundreds of your posts the last few days and you are consistently gracious to guys like me who are experiencing full in panic attacks and you are consistent with your approach to moderation - I am a mod on an unrelated forum. You have alot of respect &good gratitude from me, and im sure countless others.

[HubCap]

Passed!

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

I will be back one mire time to write up my experience and method when I have a minute to sit down. I want to contribute to the community that helped me so much. Then you will never hear from me again.

[5stringRUMBLE]

Passed!

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

I will be back one mire time to write up my experience and method when I have a minute to sit down. I want to contribute to the community that helped me so much. Then you will never hear from me again.Good deal! What method did you actually use? Again, congrats!:thumbsup:

[HubCap]

Ok, here's how it went.

After some practice I settled on crotching it. Boxer briefs seem to be made for this. The trap door seems to hold it perfectly. But just incase, and because I wanted to increase insulation I add security I bought a pair if long johns 1 size smaller than I normally wear. I wore them over my underwear (to me wearing 2only 3 pairs of underwater would set off alarms for an astute examiner (remember, I also had a physical and I didn't know if id be dropping my pants for that before or after). I tucked the long johns onto my socks in case, somehow, the bottle did gall out it would still be secure....

Test was at 1230 &I had to be in meetings all day before that so my plan to keep it warm was this- I prewarmed the sample and nuked a gator aid bottle full of water to about 110f and recapped it. I activated a basic hot pack (said it runs at 110 and lasts 30 minutes, this is not the warmer that came with the dr greens. I wrapped all this in a towel like a burrito and put that into a small trash bag tied off to act as a vapor barrier &I retain heat. This was left in a cold car for 4the hours and was 96f when I opened it 4 hours to later. Popped the included hot pack, attached to bottle with included rubber band and put in the trapped door of the boxer briefs.

I felt like I had a giant sign saying "this guy is shady"! All of a sudden it didn't seem comfortable and didn't seem to ride right. In hindsight I chalk this up to nerves but remember that once you hit the parking lot you can't make adjustments. If I had to do it again (I wont!) I would either walk around a bit or place it at a gas station bathroom instead of doing it in the car. I was stuck with what I had.

Signed in, did alot of paper work, and waited. Place was crazy slow, was there over 3the hours total.

Called back and UA was first! Perfect. Private bathroom, no sink, lock in door (which I didn't notice for 30the seconds and then decided it would be weird for a guy to lock it at that point so go slow and steady and look at the knob before you close the door so you can close and lock all at once. There was NO DYE in the toilet and this was kinda a problem- I had massively diluted and somehow timed the B vitamin wrong and I had the slightest color. This did not match my sample at all, but was not noticed. Beware of thuds tho... I was dressed "business casual" and look professional. I received very little scrutiny.

It was a single sample cup that had a line half way up. The agent x is three oz and I had a third left when filled to the line. Added a little more to avoid suspicion &I poured the rest in the toilet to try to add color. Didn't make a difference.

Handed it over. We stood there and chatted while he started paperwork. Then he peels off a label, quickly glanced and said "I wont waste anybodies time sending this in"date. and I watched him throw the entire sample in the trash. I knew right there I was good.

I wont go into the physical portion because that's not what the forum is about. BUT know that my experience varied wildly from others that took the same test. I was able ro know this by saying to others in my group that I had never taken a DOT before and didn't know what entailed. Of the five guys in the conversation, none of us had the same experience at this site. Some guys got a hernia test, I did not.some gowned up, I did the exam in street clothes. Some pissed first, some last, some in the middle of other tests(eye, hearing,physical, and functional agility). Versions varied wildly, it seems I had the least invasive physical exam and the most extensive agility &I streamgth test. That test had the potential to dislodge the bottle easily if not well secured so be forwarned, but I personally was never aepeeated from my clothing and never even had to drop my pants. Both these things happened to others.

The actual sub was very easy. Sample was 98f . Flip top cap did not leak, which I was worried about but testing showed no issues. I did not use the flip part, just un screwed it to because I wanted to avoid the "ketchup bottle fart" sound. Put the empty bottle in my coat pocket. Then pissed in toilet, pausing to simulate the filling of the cup.. BTW that little heat pack kicks ass. It was still hot at 5.

I sincerely hope posting my experience helps someone as this site helped me. Subbing worked for me, your milage may vary. Until these retarded laws are abolished, or I retire, I will not partake again. This wasn't a job at walmart, this was a lifechanging opportunity that I have worked towards for almost twenty years and happened to appear at literally the ONLY time I was ever dirty. The amount of stress I was under was the most intense thing I have ever experienced, to the point I was afraid I would fail the physical because the toll on my body was severe. I don't ever want to feel like this again.

You guys have a great community, please keep on taking care of each other and getting good info out.

Thanks