new dude grow

[budbro28]

new to the scene heres week one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2rUxFLt2co

here is week two
week two and new UFO - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaIG519MmIM)

would love any feedback, pointers or tips....

3x3x5 with 240 watt full spectrum led and 90 watt red ufo auto sweet coffee ryder, northern lites blue auto, and some auto skunk...cant wait for em to get big

[CaptainOrganicsCO]

Nice set up!

[tlranger]

Think your wanting some good smoke, going at it right

[CaptainOrganicsCO]

Please tel us about your soil, nutes, and air exchange for your tent? What are u using? Were your seeds feminized?
Curious...?...

[CaptainOrganicsCO]

Also curious, never grown an auto flower, are the lights on 24hrs during flower? 18? I don't think you turn it to 12/12 do you?

[budbro28]

Also curious, never grown an auto flower, are the lights on 24hrs during flower? 18? I don't think you turn it to 12/12 do you?

i started off doing 24 hour light for the first week and hald then swithced to 18 on and 6 off...im using fox farms ocean soil with 3 gallon smart pots....im also using fox farm big bloom, grow big, and tiger bloom...havent started the nutes yet...gunna do half strength every other watering to start to not shock em....ive never grown period but i got a bunch of my equipment from family that upgraded to bigger grows...(lucked out) i will not be switching to 12/12 for the autos ive been told they just go straight into flowering (from what im told) im a complete noob but had a little guidance on materials....i have yet to get a vent fan but i am def looking at a charcoal filter and 240 cfpm vent fan.....and i was under the impression all autos were feminized but me being the noob im probably wrong.......? i got my seeds from world of seeds.

im really open to any suggestions you guys may have...im new so i can take ALL help given.

[CaptainOrganicsCO]

Not everybody needs a charcoal filter. I like it stinky. Although I do use one. Get your self that fan soon, air exchange is key, along with temerature and humidity.

I don't have led experience, FF nutes experience, or auto flower experience. Lol I'm not any assistance for ya. Ill just watch and learn

[budbro28]

yea got a temp and humidity gauge and two fans....on in each opposite corner. ( as im writing its sitting at 85f with 40% humidity)....i also just added an exhale bag but im pretty skeptical...id rather bathe them in a dry ice bath for an hour...even if it doesnt do shit makes me feel like a better parent.....i live in a real fucked up state when it comes to this shit...so i HAVE to be the utmost carefull...not one person knows of my op...you guys are the only people i can talk to about it and its HARD AS BALLS to not jabber jaw about em....like any proud parent i want to brag:cool:

[CaptainOrganicsCO]

I've never heard anyone say " man, I'm glad I bought the exhale CO2 bag"

[budbro28]

i feel like i got scammed into buying a giant petree dish (the things for germ cultivation)

[CaptainOrganicsCO]

What is it $30?, not bad, where else are they trying to scam you? Think about it...

[CaptainOrganicsCO]

CO2 is not necessary for most soil grows with good fresh air exchange

[budbro28]

broke cardinal rule last night...im an idiot...bring chick home and she walks towards my room and in my office sees the pink and blue glow from the tent...."whats that?" she says......."Oh just my weed plants...." i replied as i drunkly stumbled into my bed from the bar....OOOPS.

[budbro28]

so i woke up to one of my sprouts having an almost burnt leaf tip...any its weird shoul di cut it off? or what
gunna post video of it ASAP

[PuffPuffPassDragon]

I thought that red was to be used for flowering rather than veg state. Please forgive me as I have not started my first grow yet and am very curious. What tent? I too am curious about all the particulars.

PPP~Dragon

[Weezard]

I thought that red was to be used for flowering rather than veg state. Please forgive me as I have not started my first grow yet and am very curious. What tent? I too am curious about all the particulars.

PPP~Dragon

Correct.
Or more exactly, a high red ratio.
Ya gotta remember, he's growing autoflower plants.

Though I do have to wonder if a high blue ratio might keep them in veg. just a little longer?
Same thing with 24hr. lights.
The longer you can convince them to veg out, the more bud you get to the jar.

Nice set up.

Aloha,

Weezard

[catbuds]

i started off doing 24 hour light for the first week and hald then swithced to 18 on and 6 off...im using fox farms ocean soil with 3 gallon smart pots....im also using fox farm big bloom, grow big, and tiger bloom...havent started the nutes yet...gunna do half strength every other watering to start to not shock em....ive never grown period but i got a bunch of my equipment from family that upgraded to bigger grows...(lucked out) i will not be switching to 12/12 for the autos ive been told they just go straight into flowering (from what im told) im a complete noob but had a little guidance on materials....i have yet to get a vent fan but i am def looking at a charcoal filter and 240 cfpm vent fan.....and i was under the impression all autos were feminized but me being the noob im probably wrong.......? i got my seeds from world of seeds.

im really open to any suggestions you guys may have...im new so i can take ALL help given.

That's a rich soil. I use it, love it & the fox farm nutes too..... but, you won't need the nutes right away with that soil. As rich as it is, too soon & you'll burn them. I recomend going slow, at first, only use 1/4 strength. Oh & one thing about Big Bloom, use it for transplanting & seedlings. Not only are the nutes & trace elements good for bloom, but they aid in root growth & encourage good strong stems. All very important to seedlings. You've made many excellent choices, including coming here to cann.com! Welcome! :) :) :)

[budbro28]

so should i use the big bloom now? on week 3?

[catbuds]

Yep! Directions say 1 tablespoon per gal for seedlings & transplants, but because the soil is so rich, use 1/2 tablespoon. Mine are 3wks too & they've been getting it 2 wks already. Not ONE had bendy droopy stems, & I even soaked my seeds in it (diluted of course) before planting. Theres all sorts of growth hormones & trace elements in it that aren't listed because they are naturally occuring in the organics that its made from, not added by fox farms, so therefore, not listed. I love fox farms products... period! Awesome stuff. :) :) :)

[budbro28]

good shit man, bout to brew up a batch tomorrow...they have great customer service too...emailed about a few things and they sent me a tshirt and measuring spoon fo' free...cant beat free man...another question anyone ever use a watering spike for 5 day period...gunna have to leave the ladies for a few days over xmas and got some Cobra watering spikes...

[Chromophore]

Hey budbro very nice setup! I love they way you've done your lights for quick and easy adjustment. I too am on my first grow and have found the folks around here helpful and encouraging. Definitely Some good smart people around here. I love that Foxfarm Ocean Forest and have used it for years starting tomatoes and many other plants as well. It is a really well formulated soil. But as Catbuds warned, it's pretty rich stuff. I know the Foxfarm schedule calls for adding nutes, but most people who have been helping me stressed that I really didn't need them during early and mid veg. I just kept transplanting to a slightly bigger pot as they became bound so they could get a shot of fresh medium. Usually added some Bigbloom at transplant and molasses the next watering. I was amazed at how lush and happy the plants were in straight soil and no added nutes. I've used some high-priced soil mixtures over the years but that Ocean Forest is the best commercial stuff I've come across. Looking forward to learning how to make my own in the future. Good job on the grow!

[tlranger]

Might need a little N starting out, not much easy to burn, after first flowers then the P&K.

Like weez said more veg, more bud, more weight.

[budbro28]

just took out the all red led...gunna see whats up...t5 and the 240watt for now...

[budbro28]

i think the red led tricked one of my sprouts right into bud or something cause i have a one inch stem and then tight little cluster leaves looks like the begining of a cola...ever heard of? or could it just be a genitcally fucked up plant...kinda confused as to why this one plant is acting so weird....

[Weezard]

Google phenotype.

I also see this when the roots get tangled.

Seed gets planted wrong end up.
Root tip emerges, makes it's U-turn, sees daylight, heads back down and loses the fulcrum needed to shed it's husk.
That uses up all the energy stored in the seed and the plant stress-flowers with a tangled rootball.

296772296773

Or. it could be something else. :D

Aloha,
Weezard

[budbro28]

i know i planted it the right way it had like half an inch tap root...it was growing fine, added the red led and it started growing funky...

[budbro28]

oh and hit em with 1/2 tablespoon of the big bloom today...and gave em a hearty watering...they seemed to perk up with that...after an hour had a little droop, was like oh shit...came back 4 hours later...leaves had upward point and looked lush dark green..:clap:

[catbuds]

i think the red led tricked one of my sprouts right into bud or something cause i have a one inch stem and then tight little cluster leaves looks like the begining of a cola...ever heard of? or could it just be a genitcally fucked up plant...kinda confused as to why this one plant is acting so weird....

Ahh, Bro. Sounds like it could be the early start of a "celery stalk". Weird little mutation, flattened stem, looks very much like a celery stalk, & the bud forms funny, little tight round clump, not much production there, but many people grow out this little oddity as a conversation piece. When it starts out like this, early on the main stem, the whole plant is affected. But often its just a side branch. .... But Wheeze could be right. Only time will tell what's really up! :) :) :)

[Chromophore]

Hey budbro there are viruses that live in a more or less "dormant" state in plant's DNA. Often the phenomenon Catbuds is describing, as well as other seemingly sudden odd growth pattern results from some type of stress signaling the viral DNA to start doing it's thing. Many of these plant viruses are harmless. They just cause weird growth habits or strangely patterned color. Some horticulturists actually breed the viral mutants due to their interesting appearance, e.g. certain varieties of rose, philodendron and euphorbia. I'm not saying that's what's going on here, I just find it fascinating. In my work I grow Salvia divinorum (Diviner's Sage) and it occasionally suffers from this. I'm just rambling on about weird plant science. Trust your elders on this one.

[budbro28]

yea i need to get some pictures uploaded...i dont know how though

[october]

New guy, first grow and not doing so good. Bagseed, 50gal. Ebb m flow, 250w cfl for veg and 2 4ft floro for bud. For nutes im using A/N jungle juice new 2 part formula. 6/6 closet with about four feet of grow room. I will post pics soon as i figure out how. I appreciate this site, till today i thought i was alone. I am alone in some ways, im the only one on the green earth waisting all my time and loot on bagseed. Sorry, im new and really excited

[catbuds]

The strangest things can be triggers to 'turn on' dormant dna too, not just plants either. I recently read a paper from researchers working on the theory that the antibodies responsible for fighting off coccidia (spelling) can trigger dormant markers within the dna to 'turn on' resulting in schizophrenia for the next 5 generations. This, btw, is passed maternaly. Its often disease that turn on triggers within dna that results in pretty colored hairs on buds, & eons ago, something (I forgot what) triggered a genetic mutation causing blue eyes! Yep! Blue eyes are a mutation!(Hey! IM A MUTANT! LOL)!
-- The best breeders & growers (of anything) in the world can be stumped by plant/animal loss, mutations & illnesses when weird things happen within the dna. Every living thing has dna, working pretty much the same. Even diseases mutate (new flu hitting us every year or so, good example). Untill research is done on issues such as celery stalking, diagnosis can be pretty much a guessing game (& its too early to tell exactly what IS up with your plant)
-- This is errelevent, but interesting. What we now call parvo in dogs was a mutant strain of feline distemper! It happened in the early- mid 70's, & I was working the dog show circuits. It was devestating!
-- Diviners sage! REALLY!?!? Coming from a long line of herbalists & dowsers, I'm very interested in hearing more about what you do Chromophore! That was a very important plant for my grandmother (from the Appalachian mountains)! Damned, we need P.M.s!
-- Sorry. I got off on a tangent there, didn't I? :) :) :)
--

[october]

The one pic you do have is plenty. Lol

[Chromophore]

Yes Catbuds, P.M.s. :cool: But I can tell you that I have had the privilege to work with some really fascinating plants in the course of my "career". In all cases the primary focus was the presence of glandular trichomes, and what exactly, on a biochemical level, was going on in there. S. divinorum was used basically as a model organism for production of a specific class of terpenoids (at least one of which is the psychoactive element). Growing these plants in a consistent and healthy way was a challenge. Very susceptible to thrip and spider mite. Even a small infestation weakens and kills them. The plants are essentially sterile and are clonaly propagated. It is a plant with very deep connections with specific people. And it's hallucinogenic character is misused and misunderstood in our culture, IMO.

[catbuds]

Many people are unaware that trichromes & terpenoids are characteristic of any plant other than cannabis. But this is what gives herbs their aroma & flavor too. Just rub an herb plant & feel the oils left behind on your fingers. People use herbs daily in their food, but yet remain unaware of this. & just like with pot, the bulk of the medicinal properties are carried in these resin glands. People who make essential oils are very aware of this. BTW, what plant are the trichromes from in your avatar. Stalks too wide & short, size to uniform to be pot. Would my guess of the sage plant be correct? (Color wrong ?)
-- My education in this (& animal science) came from the 70's. I try to stay somewhat current by googling research papers from major universities, but sometime, what I learn most is how much we DIDNT know back then. Creates a whole new learning process! :) :) :)

I think we need our own thread for some of our conversations. We've hijacked poor Budbro's thread! I'm so sorry Budbro! Please forgive me! :)

[budbro28]

well the warden let me outta the hole....got banned for two weeks....:mad: for speaking my mind...but anywho...the ladies look great and smell delicious...switched over to distilled water and been adding my nutes every other watering at half strength....they seem to like it..next watering will be full dose nutes...i have been ph'ing my water right aroun 6.1/-6.3 every time...try to keep it as uniform as possible...my buddy harvested his girl and threew me his red and blue 90 watt LED ufo...so i got three lights pumpin now...if anyone can enlighten the good brotha on how to load a photo i can upload pics of my one down syndrome plant....the thing is having some growth issues..looks health but its just really deformed...random leaf growth outta the stems...not uniform leaf growht the leafes are all mis mathced and curled...but it looks healthy...also the it just looks like a green blob haha

[Chromophore]

bud just use the window-like icon next to the Earth with red X icon. When you put your cursor over it it says "insert image".

[d00g]

Welcome back, budbro! Looking forward to see your pics. Every parent must have unconditional love for his or her children :)

[budbro28]

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[budbro28]

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[budbro28]

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[budbro28]

no one has an idea whats up with my little down syndrome girl?^^^^^^^

[catbuds]

I've had weird plant growth like that. Sometimes they even seem like they want to vine. Doesn't seem to affect anything, just looks weird. Usually they start growing normal as they mature. It doesn't affect budding at all. Guess its like people, some are just born weird looking! Kind of reminds me of a girl I once worked with. She had absoulty NO fingers, she was born with 10 thumbs! You've heard the expression, 'all thumbs'? Well she was. Not a thing wrong with them, they functioned fine. She was a beautiful girl & guys drooled over her.... untill they noticed her hands. Just a little something that caused a deformity. Every one of those I've had like that that were female. Dont know if that was just coincidence, or a mutation concerning a sex-linked gene. Either way, it doesn't effect flowering. Everything sounds & looks great. Dont worry about your little downs syndrome baby. Its just a little oddity! :) :) :)

(Almost looks like it wants to be a tomato! LOL!)

[Chromophore]

budbro sometimes leaf distortion in plants can be a sign of N toxicity, but I doubt that's the case here. I have a plant I'm nursing along which is a mutant of some sort. Some people told me to get rid of it, but catbuds encouraged me to hang on and nurture it. It still looks weird (gnarled, puckered leaves and very small form), but it's green and sturdy. Eventually I'll throw it into 12/12 and see what happens.

[budbro28]

thats what people told me..."dont waste your time" but i was like dude this is my first grow..why not just grow it and see what i get..my logic is it could be some ancient crazy genetic strand that has been dormant for the past 2 million years...and i just found the cure for stupid...hey it could happen....

[budbro28]

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wanted to give a better look at my equipment....two ufos...on 240 watt board...one t5 4bulb two footer hanging sideways and a 6inch in line fan to keep positive pressure in the tent to see if it doesnt help keep critters out....makes house smell good though

[catbuds]

Budbro, you find the cure for stupid? Well throw some my way. I have a few people around here that could use a cure like that before I'm forced to kill them! I'd just watch the little 'tomato plant' grow & see what happens. What can it hurt? I think it will grow out of it somewhat & proceed as normal. :)

[tlranger]

Do like looking at these pictures of led grows, think they look so cool. Wonder if this is causing your piling of leaves?

[d00g]

I did have similar experience with my LED-fed indica plants when they were about that small. It appeared to me that the leaves were growing so wide and bushy that they were growing into each other. It appeared that whatever individual "leaf finger" (I don't recall what the inidivudal lengths on a leaf arecalled) was smaller ended up getting "pushed aside" by the larger "finger", and growing like that for several days, the smaller would kinda warp to the shape it was being pressed in. As my 2 ladies have grown larger, the leaves are larger and more spaced out, and they are not pressing into each other the way they were when tiny. However, I have kept up with minor pruning and LST to help with light penetration, air flow, and to keep them growing in the directions I want them to grow. If I had not been pruning as much, maybe they would still be too bushy and have leaves growing into each other.

So keep an eye on it! Love seeing another LED setup, looks like your ladies are getting PLENTY of light!

[budbro28]

yea thats my next subject of discussion pruning....what do you cut and what do you not cut...like i get the general idea of nodes and shit, but will i hurt the plant if i start cutting fan leaves away to get light to lower nodes...whats the genral rule of thumb when pruning...and wheres my island man WEEZARD at...catbuds...id gladly give EVERYone some..it would be a requiremnet of mine that everyone is issued a dose at birth...i would make sure this happend when i sold the genetic strand to the gov....all about the fine print...and it would be FO FREE..but not for the government...they stay robbing me...just got pulled on my motorcycle CRUISIN and they got me for 300 large:wtf: but guess thats the price one must pay to play hard...but back to pruning...yea my little low ryder def needs some and so does down syndrome susie....like the doog said leaves are growing into each other

[Shovelhandle]

I have rarely pruned fan leaves ever. Rarely I'll find an indica that seems to want some trimming. I do top the plants to keep them from growing too tall and trim lower branches so the light doesn't need to reach those bottom little buds. Keep in mind that even with 1000 watts of HPS the light is not so strong when you get to the bottom of a 6 foot (2 meter) tall plant. And with LED and CFLs the light is even less powerful.

[tlranger]

You two shouldn't post one after other, I've got a weak heart

[budbro28]

You two shouldn't post one after other, I've got a weak heart
haha what do you mean...

and my low ryder is a short stumpy thing(yes i know genetics) but has very little light penetration thats why i was asking about the pruning of fan leaves....any more specific advice on the subject is welcomed...thanks shovel!

[tlranger]

I'm voting for losing bottom and interior buds, not leaves, try two different same size, then check weight, might surprise you.

If your to young to know I shouldn't say anything. :S3::jawdropper::joint1:

[budbro28]

okay that i get. so im just directing my growth to a handful verse letting em runwild? even with an auto? if i do this with my lowryder plant i feel like i will get rid of most of the sites...from the research i have done these plants are small and stumpy with not much bud growth in the first place, enlighten me oh good weed warrior! im trying to get that knowledge.....:thumbsup:(puts lab coat and goggles back on grabs clip board hysterically laughs back to the lab)

[d00g]

You two shouldn't post one after other, I've got a weak heart

Ranger I believe it's the opposite - keep starin at the booties to get a high BPM work out for the ticker :)

[tlranger]

Ranger I believe it's the opposite - keep starin at the booties to get a high BPM work out for the ticker :)

I would definitely have ageed (ten years ago), but now with half a heart, still its nice to see!!

[budbro28]

im an idiot...like momma said if i was a snake the shit woulda bit me....:silly:

[Weezard]

Howzit, guys?

Thought I'd weigh in on "hackin' n hewin'.

I don't chop fanleaf, that's tantamount to removing solar panels from your roof.
More is usually better, with fan leaf.

They can be folded in case of shading, but mo'betta use an oscillating fan to keep them moving.

There are several benefits to that, heat, transpiration, flyers, shading, stem strength, dust prevention, PM, etc.
Never grow indoors without one or two.

And I hang my leds from a single, central, cord so that they torque a bit when the thermostat kicks their fan on and off.
That moves the shadows around so every part of the plant gets a share of the light.
Just like momma nature. :)
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And the comment about LED and CFL penetration was only half right.
The CFL half.:)

LEDs have a happy variable.
They can be lensed to "get around" the inverse square law.
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They are normally, Lambertian, or 180 degree radiation emitters.
With un-lensed LEDs, SOG or SCROG, is the way to go, but with lanky gals, lensing is advised.

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Narrow the angle to 90 degrees and they will out"penetrate" HPS and MH.
Focus to 60 degrees and you approach sunlight ratios.

I'd save dat l'il "twisty sistah, brah.
I've seen them turn magical at the end.

Aloha,
Weezard

[Shovelhandle]

okay that i get. so im just directing my growth to a handful verse letting em runwild? even with an auto? if i do this with my lowryder plant i feel like i will get rid of most of the sites...from the research i have done these plants are small and stumpy with not much bud growth in the first place, enlighten me oh good weed warrior! im trying to get that knowledge.....:thumbsup:(puts lab coat and goggles back on grabs clip board hysterically laughs back to the lab)

I was just saying what I do with my plants. And I don't grow autos so what I do doesn't always apply. Carry on.

[budbro28]

i think for this first grow...im gunna focus on making sure i keep em healthy and then wehn i get that down try to learn other techniques instead of overloading myself with info and getting overwhelmed...

[d00g]

I would definitely have ageed (ten years ago), but now with half a heart, still its nice to see!!

Well, tlranger my friend, you are definitely a wise, strong, and caring man! My Grandpa George endured two separate cardiac bypasses - both 10-20 years ago. He also suffered (yet lived) through bouts (and chemo treatment) of prostate, colon, and lung cancers from that time until about 8 months ago, when he succumbed to the diseases (and the treatment, which he always felt made him much weaker than the disease itself). Grandpa George drove me to become an Eagle Scout, which I would NOT have become without him. He also drove me to become an athlete, which helped me afford college with the help of a scholarship. He taught me to cook initially, which led me to pursue cooking school after I realized my original college plans were not what I was really looking for.

SO, tlranger - although I have gone off on a personal tangent that is not even located in my own grow log, I want you to know that your knowledge, wisdom, know-how, and friendly banter are ALL much appreciated and comforting! I am only speaking for myself, but I imagine other n00b farmers like myself feel the anxiety at various times of stress - when us n00bies have a question/concern, your friendly words of wisdom are very welcome. Just knowing your background and reading your stories and experiences makes me feel like I literally have a farmer holding my hand through my problems, and it takes away so much worry and anxiety. Even if the suggestions are not always used, it is comforting to have someone with a lot of experience offering suggestions. I can't imagine the help we need getting much better than friendly advice from you, Weezard, catbuds, and ALL the other knowledgable growers (SO SORRY if I didn't mention anyone else specifically by name but I love you all for your willingness to help)!

So keep taking care of that heart so you can continue to healthily share your wisdom with us :)

[budbro28]

Well, tlranger my friend, you are definitely a wise, strong, and caring man! My Grandpa George endured two separate cardiac bypasses - both 10-20 years ago. He also suffered (yet lived) through bouts (and chemo treatment) of prostate, colon, and lung cancers from that time until about 8 months ago, when he succumbed to the diseases (and the treatment, which he always felt made him much weaker than the disease itself). Grandpa George drove me to become an Eagle Scout, which I would NOT have become without him. He also drove me to become an athlete, which helped me afford college with the help of a scholarship. He taught me to cook initially, which led me to pursue cooking school after I realized my original college plans were not what I was really looking for.

SO, tlranger - although I have gone off on a personal tangent that is not even located in my own grow log, I want you to know that your knowledge, wisdom, know-how, and friendly banter are ALL much appreciated and comforting! I am only speaking for myself, but I imagine other n00b farmers like myself feel the anxiety at various times of stress - when us n00bies have a question/concern, your friendly words of wisdom are very welcome. Just knowing your background and reading your stories and experiences makes me feel like I literally have a farmer holding my hand through my problems, and it takes away so much worry and anxiety. Even if the suggestions are not always used, it is comforting to have someone with a lot of experience offering suggestions. I can't imagine the help we need getting much better than friendly advice from you, Weezard, catbuds, and ALL the other knowledgable growers (SO SORRY if I didn't mention anyone else specifically by name but I love you all for your willingness to help)!

So keep taking care of that heart so you can continue to healthily share your wisdom with us :)

yup i second this motion...i need my hand held to the toilet let alone growing buds...and doog an EAGLE SCOUT? damn they didnt teach you how to grow buds with a stick and two rocks...? would thought they had a ganja badge...whats your take on the new openly gay scouts...just curious...^^^^and this isnt considered thread jacking IMO if it is throw my ass back in the HOLE for two weeks...GLADLY

trangler, weez and catbuds and some others i have left out are def my go to worthy weed warriors...weez is def the LED go to man.

[budbro28]

quick question are these pictures signs of "sun burn" or nute burn....and why is only happening on two leaves i rotate the plants through out the day in a clockward motion, to give a constant change....but the top of the plant has no signs of stress at least to me...here are some pics...pick them brains fellows...im stumped297406297407297408

[d00g]

Hey my friend the coloring on those leaves, to my n00b eyes, looks like what I had going on with my ladies - Calcium deficiency. I was confused when I had those almost EXACT same-looking spots on some of my leaves. It confused me because I did some research, both in my copy of Ed Rosenthal's The Marijuana Grower's Handbook, and also various forums, to find out that it appeared they were suffering from a Ca deficiency. I feed my ladies Sea-Cal (from Humboldt Nutes, based on their nute schedule), so I assumed they should not have any Calcium problems. So, in talking with the nice people at my local hydro shop, they explained that this (and other nutrient deficiency problems) can occur if soil pH is off (too acidic), or also if the plants are over-watered. I believe that I had both the over-watering and non-ideal pH problem going on. Since correcting those two issues, and slightly increasing my dose of Sea-Cal, I have no longer seen these spotting issues.

So, if that is what's going on with your plants, I would first try to wait a little longer (1-2 hours longer) between waterings from day to day, and also be very diligent in checking your pH - prior to watering, and checking the runoff when you water. I bet adjusting those things will help you like it helped me. It won't make the already-existing spotting go away in the current leaves, but new growth should NOT develop those spots.

[budbro28]

see what youre saying makes sense....but....why would only one leaf show this...and at the middle of the plant? why wouldnt new growth have the same kind of issue...if it were on more leaves id be like "okay hes right" but with one leaf is this possible? the spots when i look at em with a magnifying glass they are see through almost...a transparent yellow brown....ive been following fox farms feeding schedule...and am using fox farms ocean soil or whatevr....ive never thought of ph"in my runoff water..if that water is off how do i adjust soil ph? i have been using the hydroponics ph up and down kit...and a ph tester...(but this is all for water prior to watering....im starving for this green knowledge....enlighten me....PS packers BLOW. MF'in arron rodgers

[Weezard]

Hey my friend the coloring on those leaves, to my n00b eyes, looks like what I had going on with my ladies - Calcium deficiency. I was confused when I had those almost EXACT same-looking spots on some of my leaves. It confused me because I did some research, both in my copy of Ed Rosenthal's The Marijuana Grower's Handbook, and also various forums, to find out that it appeared they were suffering from a Ca deficiency. I feed my ladies Sea-Cal (from Humboldt Nutes, based on their nute schedule), so I assumed they should not have any Calcium problems. So, in talking with the nice people at my local hydro shop, they explained that this (and other nutrient deficiency problems) can occur if soil pH is off (too acidic), or also if the plants are over-watered. I believe that I had both the over-watering and non-ideal pH problem going on. Since correcting those two issues, and slightly increasing my dose of Sea-Cal, I have no longer seen these spotting issues.

So, if that is what's going on with your plants, I would first try to wait a little longer (1-2 hours longer) between waterings from day to day, and also be very diligent in checking your pH - prior to watering, and checking the runoff when you water. I bet adjusting those things will help you like it helped me. It won't make the already-existing spotting go away in the current leaves, but new growth should NOT develop those spots.

Good advice, D00g,

I'd like a mo' betta look at the petioles.
If they are "pinking", that's 2 votes for lockout from low PH swings.
297409

In which case, adding calmag won't help.

That said, I don't know from auto-flower.
Near the equator, they're almost all auto-flower. :)

Aloha,
Weeze

Edit:
@budbro,
Do those spots look like they were "scooped" out?

[Weezard]

Went back and clicked up them photos.
Good pics!
Wish everyone would do that kind of resolution.
Never mind about the scooped, question.
No sign of Thrips.

And I do see the tell-tale signs of phosphorus lockout at the fan leaf centers.
Good call d00g!

The location of the symptoms tells you exactly when your PH was low.
If the old growth is normal, and the new growth looks good, it was transitory and mild.
You can simply carry on. :)

Looks like you've taken good care of her.
And now have learned to check the water's PH each and every time.
I learned, the hard way, that the PH of my tap water is a moving target.

(It's an Island thing.
Surf up? maybe PH guy no come work today. :D )

Aloha,
Weeze

[d00g]

Haha PH guy shows up to the water treatment plant, drips 10 drops of PH up or down into the giant tanks for the day, then goes back to surfing!

[budbro28]

Went back and clicked up them photos.
Good pics!
Wish everyone would do that kind of resolution.
Never mind about the scooped, question.
No sign of Thrips.

And I do see the tell-tale signs of phosphorus lockout at the fan leaf centers.
Good call d00g!

The location of the symptoms tells you exactly when your PH was low.
If the old growth is normal, and the new growth looks good, it was transitory and mild.
You can simply carry on. :)

Looks like you've taken good care of her.
And now have learned to check the water's PH each and every time.
I learned, the hard way, that the PH of my tap water is a moving target.

(It's an Island thing.
Surf up? maybe PH guy no come work today. :D )

Aloha,
Weeze


flush for a few days? distilled water ph'd at 6.1-6.3? skip a nute cycle?...maybe do a nute flush? sledgehammer kinda shit? is your "sign" the purpling at the center? and if so...is the flush enough or is there another step needed?

thank you!

[Weezard]

flush for a few days? distilled water ph'd at 6.1-6.3? skip a nute cycle?...maybe do a nute flush? sledgehammer kinda shit? is your "sign" the purpling at the center? and if so...is the flush enough or is there another step needed?

thank you!

None of the above.
Please re-read this part carefully;

"The location of the symptoms tells you exactly when your PH was low.
If the old growth is normal, and the new growth looks good, it was transitory and mild.
You can simply carry on. :)"

By "carry on", I mean that no immediate action is required if those 2 underlined conditions are met.

All those "spots" say, is that you had a PH problem in the past.
The purpling is also on older growth.

The healthy looking new growth says that you no longer have that problem.
If it's no longer broken, why continue to "fix" it?

Just carry on, carrying on.
She looks good.

Aloha,
Weeze

[tlranger]

Have to say, agree with Weez, new growth looks good carry on. Just keep an eye on it.

[budbro28]

None of the above.
Please re-read this part carefully;

"The location of the symptoms tells you exactly when your PH was low.
If the old growth is normal, and the new growth looks good, it was transitory and mild.
You can simply carry on. :)"

By "carry on", I mean that no immediate action is required if those 2 underlined conditions are met.

All those "spots" say, is that you had a PH problem in the past.
The purpling is also on older growth.

The healthy looking new growth says that you no longer have that problem.
If it's no longer broken, why continue to "fix" it?

Just carry on, carrying on.
She looks good.

Aloha,
Weeze
my fault...can you explain a little more about the run off water being ph'd...and if its not at the right ph how do you get soil to the right ph? this sparks my interest. (i dont know what your soil ph' should be to begin with).im not gunna do anything to the plants...listening like a good jedi in training... i just fed em last watering, and im going to NYC for two days for work tomorrow so im gunna give a nice pure water once again before i leave....love coming back from a work trip and seeing how much they have grown...blows my mind...
thanks again ranger, weez and everyone else pitch help in...

[budbro28]

another question about the pinking or pupling on leaf stems? this is a phosphorous issue..? im noticing this on one plant pretty bad...so any help would be appreciated...ill post some pictures of fan leaf centers on all my plants this evening...

[budbro28]

297470297471297472297473297474297475297476

first three are from the same plant...
4 and 5 and 6 are from the same
last two are my down syndrome girl...which is the only one with no signs of "pinkin" at the center of leafs and stems of leaves....advice would be greatly appreciated as i thought it was a naturally occurring issue, not a health issue sign: thank you in advance ladies and gents.

[Weezard]

Can be.
There are some strains that will pink up regardless of PH, and an actual Phosphorus deficiency is very rare.
But, generally, if you see red stems and petioles it indicates a low PH lockout.
Easy enough to check, yah?
I used to call it sunburn, because many plants tint their new growth red to reflect excess red and IR until they are old enough to handle it.
So far though, all of mine were PH issues.

Aloha,
Weeze

[Chromophore]

I've wondered about this also. All four of my flowering plants have pale pink/purple petioles. Considering that otherwise they seem quite healthy (as yours seem also, budbro), I'm inclined to believe its just natural for my strain.

[budbro28]

I've wondered about this also. All four of my flowering plants have pale pink/purple petioles. Considering that otherwise they seem quite healthy (as yours seem also, budbro), I'm inclined to believe its just natural for my strain.

do any of yours have varying shades? some new growth has none, some new has alot and some has a mixture....probably my paranoia or OCD on wanting shit to be perfect...another question....i have my plants to the point where they are guzzling water? whats a good tell if you are giving the right amount of water? a few drips from the bottom of pot, or do you want like 10-20% of what ever you giveme to com eout the bottom...read that somewhere on here

could that distilled water be causeing any issue weez? and could you explain that diagram a little bitto me?http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/155387-if-you-use-ro-distilled-water-you-need-calmag-plus.html

as for resolution quality im using a Nikon D50

[budbro28]

its official...its an issue with every plant...i need help...i just looked at all plants and they are all showing serious signs...im feeling its the distilled water not having all it should like tap water ie calcium...really dont like seeing such nasty little burn spots everywhere

[Weezard]

You are probably right about the water.
Distilled water has nothing at all in it, and that creates osmotic pressure that can and does suck salts right out of your plants.
The only way to use distilled, or RO water is to replace the trace.

Good Hydro nutes contain a little extra Ca and all the trace element.
Soil nutes often do not.

Did a cloning experiment a while back when a vendor started pimping his RO filters here.
He was going on and on about the evils of Chloramine and Chlorine in tap water.
Claimed it was sure death, etc.

So, I took some cutting and set half of them in rainwater, and half in tap water.
No additives.

I watched the too pure water suck those little cuttings dry, then use what they stole to grow bad bugs, (mildew, fungi, bacteria), that finished the cuttings off.
The cuttings protected by the Chloramine and the 120ppm. of "other stuff", rooted and grew jus' fine.
So,my conclusions), a little Chloramine is a good thing, and water can be too pure for our favorite weed.
That said, I have grown some excellent meds that had red petioles all the way through.

297478
I'd say, watch their overall health and don't fret the existing spots, they will not go away, and those leaves are still functioning.
The newest growth is the indicator of their present health.
If the new leaf starts showing spots, we'll put on our thinking cats.
297479

And the chart is simple.
Read your PH, find that reading at the top of the chart and draw a line straight down.
If it passes through the fat part of an element all is well.
Through a skinny part?
Not so good. :(

You will note that Calcium and Phosphorus get "skinny" at about the same PH value.
That is not the best chart for Cannabis, but does serve for diagnosis.

Aloha,
Weeze

[Chromophore]

Wow Weezard what great info. That's the thing about DI water that has always worried me: it's relatively pure and likely to impose osmotic imbalance. Chloramines will not evaporate easily from water, but they aren't bio-available to plants either. So that is probably good in the sense that it retards microbial growth in the water that could harm plants or people. But I am very distrustful of our local treated water. The pH varies between 4.5 and 7.0 over even a day or two. Crazy. I am amazed by how little the absorption ranges for certain ions overlap. There is very little room for error, especially with something like P vs Fe.

[Chromophore]

do any of yours have varying shades?

budbro I will look at this tonight when my lights come on and let you know.

[Weezard]

"I am amazed by how little the absorption ranges for certain ions overlap. There is very little room for error, especially with something like P vs Fe."

I agree.
Wholeheartedly.

Even on a good chart it's damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.

The trick is to not think of it as a single, perfect, number.
That's not nature's way.

After looking at several charts, I just decided to do a PH drift.
I drop it a little low and let it rise if that's what it does naturally.

If it tends to sink when left alone, I let it.
When it gets to the bottom edge, I bring it back up to the top edge and let it slowly drop again.
Covers the entire useful range and every player gets to ride. :)
This applies to hydro, of course.

With soil, PH is positional.
Do not mix your soil ingredients too well, especially, the mendicants.

Little concentrations of dolomite, and peat, etc., create a graduated PH zone around and between them.
The plant has feeder roots throughout, yah?
So, in roughly blended soils, again, every player gets to ride.

Mix your soil carefully, but not too well, and it works a treat.
Attempting to adjust it after the fact with PHed water is frustrating at best.
I learned most of this the hard way, and the basis of it from Cdot's archives.

The rest from reading thousands of threads, and heavy winnowing of said threads.
(Seems to be 90% horse exhaust on most forums).
No wonder I'm tired. :D

Bottom line?
Your best tool is a good book. :)

Aloha y'all
Weeze

[budbro28]

weez...i love you but speak english to me on the first part...P vs Fe? loosing me real fast...be gentle with me im half inbred..(mother side another issue (total joke))
and i love books...what one.
im tempted to go back to tap water...this is the first week and a half with distilled water and now this...they seemed to do fine with the tap water after it sat out for a day and a half....so i may experiment.

i hate fucking shit up...dad instilled perfection

[Weezard]

The quotation marks, and different colored font indicate that the P vs Fe comment was not mine, but in fact Chromophore's.

Allow me to translate for you.
The PH chart seems to indicate that in order to use Phorphorus the chemical symbol for which is, P.
The PH must be high enough to almost lock out Iron, the chemical symbol for which is, Fe.

And the point of that post was that you should go back to tap water.

And do not let the tap water sit out for a day and a half.
That is an old wives tale that just won't die.

All that does, is allow the dissolved air to escape.
Stagnant, airless, water is not good for plants, or critters.

The Chloramine, that is almost universally used as a water disinfectant today is a compound and not a gas, it does not escape when water is left to stand.
Nor do you want it to.

It protects against anaerobic bacteria, and is not taken up by roots.

Run your water right from the tap.
Preferably through an aerator, then add your amendments, check the PH, and apply immediately.

As for books?
Start by clicking on the first line in my signature.
Then gorge on it!
It's a free education and mostly accurate.
Anytime you are puzzled, google will enlighten you.

"Perfection, while momentarily attainable, is unsustainable. Entropy always prevails". --Me

Pontification, it's what I do! :)

Aloha,
Weezard

[tlranger]

"Perfection, while momentarily attainable, is unsustainable. Entropy always prevails". --Me




Now that is deeply profound!! Almost Einsteinium. :clap::clap::clap:

[crystaliscious]

OMG - The first line on Weezards signature would remind me of a wet dream except I'm a girl lol!!!!

[catbuds]

Gotta love Weezes thinking cat! ;) ;) ;)

[Chromophore]

Weezard your thinking cat was purring last night. Thank you for the great info.:detective1:

[budbro28]

The quotation marks, and different colored font indicate that the P vs Fe comment was not mine, but in fact Chromophore's.

Allow me to translate for you.
The PH chart seems to indicate that in order to use Phorphorus the chemical symbol for which is, P.
The PH must be high enough to almost lock out Iron, the chemical symbol for which is, Fe.

And the point of that post was that you should go back to tap water.

And do not let the tap water sit out for a day and a half.
That is an old wives tale that just won't die.

All that does, is allow the dissolved air to escape.
Stagnant, airless, water is not good for plants, or critters.

The Chloramine, that is almost universally used as a water disinfectant today is a compound and not a gas, it does not escape when water is left to stand.
Nor do you want it to.

It protects against anaerobic bacteria, and is not taken up by roots.

Run your water right from the tap.
Preferably through an aerator, then add your amendments, check the PH, and apply immediately.

As for books?
Start by clicking on the first line in my signature.
Then gorge on it!
It's a free education and mostly accurate.
Anytime you are puzzled, google will enlighten you.

"Perfection, while momentarily attainable, is unsustainable. Entropy always prevails". --Me

Pontification, it's what I do! :)

Aloha,
Weezard


yeah straight up....thank you weez for lamens terms(should have the wife bake you a cake to bad your half way around the world) shame...so i switched back to tap water today for a watering added nutes and PH'd so the note pad and pencil come out...im about to read up on some health and nutrient info, along with deficiencies and over abundance of things, time to hit the books and roll a fatty...any other study up suggestions?

[OMB]

Weezard....to expound on the Tap water, would it be beneficial to put an Airstone in the H2O jug for a few minutes before watering? I have only used Tap water, but out of habit I always have let it sit for 24 hrs before using....Remnant from my Aquarium day's I guess...
Thanks weezard

[Weezard]

"any other study up suggestions?"

Nope, yer doing jus' fine, brah.

The hardest part for the first couple of grows is simply, letting them grow.

I felt the "need for action".
Tried to make them grow. :)
Damn near loved them to death in the bargain.

Now I just see to their needs.
And aside from the occasional, informational, side by side experiment, I leave them be.
Figure they've been doing it for thousands of years and If they need anything from me, they'll ask.

'swhy I get the warm fuzzies watching neophytes learn to grow.
I re-live the thrill of becoming a competent grower.
Which I expect to become sooner than later.

Aloha,
Weeze

[Weezard]

Weezard....to expound on the Tap water, would it be beneficial to put an Airstone in the H2O jug for a few minutes before watering? I have only used Tap water, but out of habit I always have let it sit for 24 hrs before using....Remnant from my Aquarium day's I guess...
Thanks weezard

That's an excellent idea!

Outdoor plants seldom drown.
How come?
Their water falls through 3 or 4 miles of air as tiny drops.
Can't get more aerated than that, yah?

I use an aerator on my hose bib, and after amending, I fill a jug half way and give it a good shaking on the way to the greenhouse.
Anaerobic bacterium are mostly "bad guys".
Freshly aerated water wipes them out, and allows the "good guys" to multiply.
Yes, even in the presence of Chloramine. :)

How do I know that?
Ask me sometime. :D

Aloha,
Weeze

[crystaliscious]

That's an excellent idea!

Outdoor plants seldom drown.
How come?
Their water falls through 3 or 4 miles of air as tiny drops.
Can't get more aerated than that, yah?

I use an aerator on my hose bib, and after amending, I fill a jug half way and give it a good shaking on the way to the greenhouse.
Anaerobic bacterium are mostly "bad guys".
Freshly aerated water wipes them out, and allows the "good guys" to multiply.
Yes, even in the presence of Chloramine. :)

How do I know that?
Ask me sometime. :D

Aloha,
Weeze

Asking.... How do you know that?

[Weezard]

Asking.... How do you know that?

Real simple experiment.

Was using rainwater to grow a mix of bennies.
Ran out of rainwater, used water from my fishpond.
It was a pain filtering out the wee fishies, so my lazy bone said to me, screw it, try tap water.
Filled a half gallon growler with tap water and let it come up to room temp.

Shook it up.
Added a tsp. of OGbiowar.
Shook it again and waited 12 hours.
Put the cap on and waited another hour.
When I cracked the lid, I heard a happy hiss. :)

Tightened it down again and waited for 2 hours.
This time I drew the escaping gas into my mouth.
CO2 is colorless and odorless, but not tasteless.
It combines with the moisture on your tongue and becomes carbonic acid.
That, has a distinctive taste. :)

The innoculated pond water is now a 5 gallon nursery for my good bugs because that stuff ain't cheap and is easy to grow.
I keep it in the veg room for the temperatue and the free CO2

Well, you did ask.
And I was in the neighborhood . . . :D

Aloha,
Long winded Weeze

[Chromophore]

Chloramine is a far superior form of water treatment than free Chlorine. As Weezard has stated, plants cannot absorb Chloramine, nor does it interfere with growth (this is debatable. Some people claim that Chloramine does in fact harm plants, especially aquatic plants, so I'm not convinced its harmless, just less so than free Chlorine). Free Chlorine can block absorption of specific nutrients (as can Sodium). Another advantage of Chloramine is that it is much less likely to form carcinogenic compounds such as Carbon Tetrachloride, than Chlorine, which can do so freely. But it's not perfect. It is not as effective at sanitizing, and if present in too high amounts, can cause respiratory problems. Also there is some evidence that Chloramine can increase uptake of Lead in animals. I'd rather not have chemicals added to municipal drinking water. On the other hand I don't want amoebic dysentery either. Chloramine is a better alternative to Chlorine. I checked and my tap water has Chloramine, so I no longer will let my water sit. Some municipalities still use Chlorine so you have to check. Chloramine is readily absorbed by activated charcoal, so if you really want to remove it, passing it through charcoal should work.

As for anaerobic microbes, well, that's yet another reason to make sure your conditions don't suffocate the roots. Overwatering and poor drainage are probably bigger indoor horticultural problems than nutrient issues, but never get as much attention.

[catbuds]

Gotta hand it to Weeze! Always good for great info & a really good belly laugh! I think you missed your calling, 'college professor' ! (Long winded Weeze? Nahh... that's my job! LOL!) Mother nature does provide, if we just take the time to look in the direction she is pointing us! ;) ;) ;)

[d00g]

"Perfection, while momentarily attainable, is unsustainable. Entropy always prevails". --Me



If I were to add my own .02 to this quote I would add "...all we can hope for on a day-to-day basis is homeostasis!"

I will now be trying some tapwater as soon as my 15ish gallons of snow-melted water is gone. I believe my use of RO water led to my early bout of calcium deficiency. Would tapwater also help terminate fungal gnats while plants are young and vulnerable?

[catbuds]

Hey guys.... you know all you have to do to preserve the freshness of that water is drop an air stone or 2 in it! ;)

[budbro28]

well after a few days of tap water..they had an explosive growth spurt and look great...appreciate all the sound advice as it was taken in like a dry sponge in water...will post pictures after this weekend. my god sons baptism is this weekend...yup shoot me in the face...gotta love all that family shit ya gotta do....

[Weezard]

"Would tapwater also help terminate fungal gnats while plants are young and vulnerable?"

:) That's a good question.
Got no gnats here.
(yeah dryer sheets!)
But someone who does, can test this easily.

All you need is a scoop of soil infested with larvae.
A small bowl, and some tap water.

Put the scoop in the bowl, whip out your loupe, and look.
Got wrigglers?
Add some fresh tap water, wait a couple hours, look again.

Be a good idea to just leave it and check every 8 hours or so for a few days too.
(If the Chloromine does not kill them outright but does affect their digestive process, it may take a while.)

Now ya know.

Tell us what ya find and we'll all be a tiny bit wiser. :)

Aloha,
Weeze

[crystaliscious]

Trying to stay outta that banned hole myself! Lol

[tlranger]

Trying to stay outta that banned hole myself! Lol

But banned holes are so inviting!!

[crystaliscious]

But banned holes are so inviting!!
some days more inviting than others!!!!

[budbro28]

back from the baptism of fire...heathen puked all over the pew. plants looking good...some malnutrients burn spots here and there...but over all pretty good i feel like...also for cloning whats the recommended length of the stem to be dipped into the rooting solution? askin for a friend

[catbuds]

Hey guys.... you know all you have to do to preserve the freshness of that water is drop an air stone or 2 in it! ;)

(Geeze! I FEEL SILLY)! I just read the whole thread & saw this was already discussed! I hate stupid...... especially when its me! LOL! :)

[Weezard]

Funny, you don't look silly. :D

Aloha,
Wee

[catbuds]

Ah, well..... you need to see me first thing in the morning! Oh wait, that's not silly! That's just scarey!! LOL! ;)

[budbro28]

...also for cloning whats the recommended length of the stem to be dipped into the rooting solution? askin for a friend

...?

[budbro28]

ive murdered em or something....fucking livid...they look like death...no clue what the fucks going on need serious help...heres the situation...went for the weekend trip was gone 4 days they got no water...they were fine when i got back...on had a little droop, i nuted em, i usually use 1 gallon jug for the three, but they seemed overly dry so i used to gallons of nuted water...maybe went over board on nutes or something? using tap water not sitting out, to the suggestion of several... i dont know what im doing lol...i followed the feeding schedule to the T....here are pictures297667297668297669297670297671

help is needed...i want em perky again...it hurts me to see them hurting...please assist:mad::what::cursing:

[crystaliscious]

try a little flush- when a plant dries up it has a hard time taking up the notes- back off of the nutes for about a week or so then slowly bring em back on it….

no expert but that is what I would do...

[tlranger]

Flush, twice, no nutes, let one set in second flush water for awhile, see what happens, hope for the best!!

[budbro28]

so i took regular tap water ph'd 6.2 and rewatered the plant that is showing the worst signs, some rainbow water came out the bottom and then started to get clear towards the end, i have no flushing solution but have read reg water will do just fine...should i have waited for her to dry a bit, my thought process on watering her now and setting her on something to let it drain out was not to let it sit in bad soil, so id rather over water then let it keep sucking up to much nutrient....was this a good idea or bad...you fellows are being a little to vague

[crystaliscious]

so i took regular tap water ph'd 6.2 and rewatered the plant that is showing the worst signs, some rainbow water came out the bottom and then started to get clear towards the end, i have no flushing solution but have read reg water will do just fine...should i have waited for her to dry a bit, my thought process on watering her now and setting her on something to let it drain out was not to let it sit in bad soil, so id rather over water then let it keep sucking up to much nutrient....was this a good idea or bad...you fellows are being a little to vague

I'm sure ranger or weezard will chime in - when the soil gets dry the roots start looking for thier food - remember it is in the soil and the moisture allows the roots to take it up, so if they got real dry what I would do is water em up with straight water and let them absorb that and the nutrients in the soil, then after they are obviously taking up the water, then I would add nutes IF they really needed em by showing signs of needing em- otherwise I wouldnt feed em….

I know there is more scientific info and info more targeted to cannabis but this is pretty true for most plants…..I will be watching to see what they say and good luck!
They don't look that bad in the pics…you can bring em back….

[growdemon]

I would say the best thing for those guys is Nothing, don't do a thing to them, they will heal themselves. If anything increase your airflow. this will help aerate the soil out some. Let the plants dry out then flush them if you must. but honestly to properly flush soil, you need to drown them let drain then drown again, preferably in a tub. which normally will just break up salt build up and flow them thru. soil is near impossible to fully flush.

when they come back from it, they look like they could use a bit of calcium & iron

[budbro28]

another question then referring to fox farms here...if i am following there feeding schedule and using there soil why would i be having some deficiency issues...do these burns look like over abundance or a shortage....ie how do you tell the diffrence between and over amount verse and under amount

[crystaliscious]

another question then referring to fox farms here...if i am following there feeding schedule and using there soil why would i be having some deficiency issues...do these burns look like over abundance or a shortage....ie how do you tell the diffrence between and over amount verse and under amount

If you get well your doctor is out of a job, same philosophy here..... Plus environment is very very important too

[budbro28]

this sucks...so bad...they looked soo good...now they are all crispy its weird...like half the plant is perky and the other half is wilted and has dried brown spots...

[Weezard]

this sucks...so bad...they looked soo good...now they are all crispy its weird...like half the plant is perky and the other half is wilted and has dried brown spots...

Yikes! The new growth is not healthy.

Looks like a high PH lockout now.
But the dry and crumbly combined with the clawing of the new growth says Itty bitty broad mites.
They are less than a millimeter in size.
Impossible to see without magnification.
Get a >100x 'scope and have a look.

If not, that oily film is a clue.

"Some rainbow water came out the bottom and then started to get clear towards the end."

How does it smell?

Aloha,
Weeze

[budbro28]

there are no insects...im positive...its has to do with feeding i had a few beers...added some nutes to water, and they seemed a little dry still so i added a second gallon of nuted water...now this....im fucking heated...was on my nicest looking plant....i murdered her....tell me how this is going to effect my out come...im tempted to juice the fucking thing
i dont even want to look at it...hurts my soul....bad fucking parenting on my part...may do a tub soak tonight...anythoughts? my other plant doesnt look horrible, but is showing similar signs but no where as bad.

[Chromophore]

Weezard doesn't that clawing look like nitrogen toxicity to you?

[budbro28]

WHAT DO I DO....this is one of those moments i want to be told exactly what to do...hand needs to be held through this one and are they early enough along that this wont drastically effect outcome? or have i fucked up beyond repair...these are the specifics needing answering.

[Weezard]

If I knew exactly what to do, I'd tell you in a new york second.
But, I'm just guessing here, without first hand experience, I can not give solid advice.

And actually, I'm not your go-to guy for repairs.
For arcane information, and research, I'm useful, but you need a real grower for serious problems.
Everyone is a good grower until something bad happens.
That's when ya separate the men from the me.



Standard troubleshooting procedure says, undo the last thing that you did.
As to how?
Well, I'd have to look that up.
Might take quite a while.

Most of the old timers here can advise you much mo' betta.
So, document, as clearly as you can, the steps that got you to this point.
Then, ask Dutch, n Polish n Chromophore, n everybody else.

Meanwhile, try to relax, brah, no get mad, get busy.

Read this while you wait:
Text (http://cannabis.com/growing/plant_trouble-plant-abuse-chart-and-photos.html)

Aloha and good luck,
Weeze

[budbro28]

here is what happened...went out of town...watered them with plain tap water and was gone 4 nights....for the three plants total...i only use about a gallon of water every other day...this is my watering cycle...but being gone for the 4 days on plant started to show signs of needing water...so instead of mixing up one gallon batch of nute'd water i did TWO gallons...followed the same measuring requirements too....i watered the three plants with the one gallon, and then watered the three again with the second, and had very little run off...went to bed, thinkin im a good parent...woke up to a train wreck...oddly enough my little wierd growing plant from the begining is the only one not showing any signs of stress or burn or anything...why would this be when all three got equally the same dosage...ive got fox farms sledgehammer that will be used tommorrow...i flushed the two plants with twice the amoutn of water the pots hold (ie 3 gallon smart pot got 6 gallons of water to flush it)
weez thanks for the read on it now...
can my old heads chime in here? as weez says the real growers (hes def a real grower FYI man knows his shit)

[budbro28]

297677297678297679297680297681

297682297683

[Chromophore]

I would defer to Weezard every time, but I'll give you my best take. Based entirely on what you have said, I can't see how this could be simply related to this recent watering schedule. From the photos it appears at first glance to be nitrogen toxicity, which results from severe over-feeding with High N fertilizer, especially over a period of time. But the bronzy scarring developing in the spaces between veins looks like either some kind of nutrient deficiency, another form of toxicity, or mite damage. You claim no mites, so I'm going with a real fundamental screw-up in nutrient availability. Erratic watering can cause stress, but this seems like more than that. I would avoid doing anything drastic right away. You don't want to compound the problem by adding another stress if you don't know if you're addressing the correct problem. Running clean water through them for the next few waterings sure can't hurt, and it may help flush out whatever imbalance may be present. Think carefully about how you mix up your mater/nutes. Is it possible you are formulating improperly? Are you feeding on successive waterings rather than alternating with plain water?

In my experience with indoor horticulture, the main source of problems for people stem from either over-watering, erratic conditions, or over-feeding. I find that in the Cannabis growing community there is a near religious zeal to feed, feed, feed. Plants are damn good at utilizing the nutes in the medium, even when it's not ideal. I always err on the side of less fertilizer, especially nitrogen. If your water and soil are out of the 5.5-7 range you will develop things like this also. Its a pain but you need to monitor those things CONTINUOUSLY. As Weezard says, you're a great grower until something goes wrong, then you're only as good as the records you keep, because that's the only way you can solve the puzzle accurately. There are many many variables at work so the more you can account for, the better. Post more pics of the leaves if you can. I'd like to see more examples. Don't worry, we'll figure it out.:jointsmile:

[budbro28]

297684297685
this is my "down syndrome" plant that has gotten the same feeding as all the others...but doesnt show any stress really...
sorry for the post frenzy today...been a stressful day today....with this and my wife...its like normandy beach right now (she's in heat) lol she would literally castrate me if she knew i said that about her. love ya babe:thumbsup:

chromorph-i have been keeping water right about 6.1-6.3 and switching feeding them nutrients every other watering....i dont think i deviated from the schedule, but could be very possible....going out of town for a few days kinda throws a wrench in the morning ritual of waking up peeing then tending my ladies (no not the wife she gets "tended" regularly and i dont seem to fuck that one up) has any one else done this? just royal fucked up mid way and they came back? so much for focusing on maintaining a healthy crop this go around...

[catbuds]

Nobodys mentioned what happens when nutes hit dry roots..........

[Chromophore]

Ah, good. more pics. Man I will tell you those pics you just posted on the previous page look like nutrient burn to me. These girls above look good, but very green and perhaps a touch over-fed. I have a book called Marijuana Garden Saver by J.C. Stitch (edited by Ed Rosenthal). It is a small encyclopedia of plant problems with lots of pictures. You may want to get a copy.

[budbro28]

Nobodys mentioned what happens when nutes hit dry roots..........

what happens?

[catbuds]

Nutes applied to DRY soil, instant burn to the delicate root hairs. You know, the ones who do the work, like taking up water & nutes. Always moisten the soil a little before applying nutes.

[Chromophore]

Related to catbud's warning is the fact that when you let the medium dry out thoroughly, you must be careful to water very slowly the next time you do. When most potting soils dry out, it takes a bit of time for the new water to saturate the entire 3-dimensional space of the soil. The water will take the path of least resistance, and that is often a channel or the sides of the pot. Sou you end up with unevenly dispersed water in the soil, and nutrients concentrated in relatively small areas. Whenever the medium gets really really dry, water by adding a little at a time, and waiting a few minutes before adding more. Add more to the center first, and then more to the perimeter of the pot as you go. Adding water a bit at a time lets the moisture reach through the medium by capillary action, and if you're patient it will eventually saturate the contents of the pot completely. Then you can water with a few bigger doses until it flows through the bottom more like a seep, rather than a trickle or stream. Then you know you have "re-wetted" the soil, and you will now avoid these kinds of "hot spots" and uneven moisture distribution.

[budbro28]

Nutes applied to DRY soil, instant burn to the delicate root hairs. You know, the ones who do the work, like taking up water & nutes. Always moisten the soil a little before applying nutes.

wow....i never would of thought of that..i feel retarded...guess you gotta screw up to figure it out.....cat whats your take on their survival...since this morning and the flush...they do seem to have uncurled a smidge but not huge...thinking of germ'ing some new ones here next week if these dont look to great

well my young ways are showing again....damn....literally my problem in life too lol i rush all the time...thank you for your help lady and gents....i will keep everyone posted.

[catbuds]

They'll survive, but catch pots will help you. When you water, if you have 1/2 or so of water in the catch pot, then its gone in a few min, that will tell you that it ran down the sides of the pot, & the missed (dry) sections of soil sucked up (capillary action) the run off. Add more water till they stop sucking up the run off, then dump excess out of the catch pots. Catch pots are a gardeners friend ;)

[catbuds]

I should have mentioned, the leaves that have hardened (kinda crispy) won't uncurl, but most of the soft pliable ones probably will. I can't always find enough catch pots, so I take a bigger pot as a form, & shape a double layer of foil into a catch pot, using the bottom of the larger pot. Making sure the catch pot is larger than the pot ensures for drainage & air to the roots. The tops of the plants use co2, but the roots need oxygen & without it, moist soil will 'sour'. Soil that's gone 'sour' is another old nurserymans term meaning stagnant soil. Once you get them healthy again, they'll finish fine. Just keep posting pics & texting descriptions so we can catch it quick if you get in trouble again.
-- I'm not getting email alerts to the threads I subscribe to like I should. Several months ago, a spammer was following me allover this forum, pushing a pyramid scheme, saying 'you don't have to sell illegal drugs, sell my legal product!' I looked up his posts, & for three or four days, ALL of his post were posted right after mine, & only mine no matter where I posted. I should have alerted Burnt Toast, but instead I unsubscribed to all the threads I was following to get that shit off my email alerts. He was caught at it, & the threads he posted to cleaned up. But since then, I only get forum alerts hit or miss. That spammer was so annoying I almost left cann.com because of him. Anyway, the point to that is I sometimes don't get my alerts & I'm not blowing anybody off, it just sometimes looks that way. :)

[papapayne]

Hey bro saw your question in the reputation comment. Based on your pics, looks like you are overdoing the nutes and changing the ph much to drastically. You said your following the nute schedule...I tried to find in your thread but couldn't find it, what nutes/soil are you using? I would say its way more key to learn how to read your plants and base your nutes on the what the plant actually needs not on a predetermined schedule. I have been doing organics for a long time now and don't really care for synthetics so I am prob the wrong person to council you proper usage on chemical nutes. Best advice I can offer, is flush double the amount of gallons of water as your pot with some reverse osmosis water (tap water has chlorine/fluoride/chloramine in it which will destroys your soil) and back off the nutes. More then likely any areas of the leaf that have gone crispy wont recover sadly :(

Your plants aren't ruined, but they probably are gonna be stunted a bit. Chalk it up as a learning experience finish them out and learn from it. The grow bible is a must have to learn the ropes.

[tlranger]

wow....i never would of thought of that..i feel retarded...guess you gotta screw up to figure it out.....cat whats your take on their survival...since this morning and the flush...they do seem to have uncurled a smidge but not huge...thinking of germ'ing some new ones here next week if these dont look to great

well my young ways are showing again....damn....literally my problem in life too lol i rush all the time...thank you for your help lady and gents....i will keep everyone posted.

Don't feel bad, I've said before that you'll remember it better if your involved. This thread was a lot of info that you have probably really digested now, and that will make you better. When I see that leaf clawing(new term to me),I usually think of root damage. Then the plant is reacting to it. Seen it happen for several reasons, drain hole in pot plugged or not there, plant drowns(roots rot). Nute burn to roots, believe leaves curl to stop transportation(shut the stomas). Insect larva eating the roots, the most extreme case for me was a mouse took a liking to roots, actually made cave in the soil while eating. Cold will also cause it(just saw extreme case of it in my tent).
Drying(wilting) looks a little different, leaves hang down lowest first, eventuality will drop leaves from bottom up. But the guys covered that, once the root ball dries enough the soil pulls away from the sides of the pot, giving water a path of least resistance. Thus cat's catch pot, or my 'let it sit in the water' to resoak.
Prognosis, not good, best case stunted with yield cut. But what don't kill you makes you stronger, same with plant and maybe potency. But look at roots when your finished, they may tell the tail.

In short 'live and learn', but take heart a lot of people may learn from this. Know I really offered nothing new, but the help offered here by others really impressed me!

[budbro28]

Hey bro saw your question in the reputation comment. Based on your pics, looks like you are overdoing the nutes and changing the ph much to drastically. You said your following the nute schedule...I tried to find in your thread but couldn't find it, what nutes/soil are you using? I would say its way more key to learn how to read your plants and base your nutes on the what the plant actually needs not on a predetermined schedule. I have been doing organics for a long time now and don't really care for synthetics so I am prob the wrong person to council you proper usage on chemical nutes. Best advice I can offer, is flush double the amount of gallons of water as your pot with some reverse osmosis water (tap water has chlorine/fluoride/chloramine in it which will destroys your soil) and back off the nutes. More then likely any areas of the leaf that have gone crispy wont recover sadly :(

Your plants aren't ruined, but they probably are gonna be stunted a bit. Chalk it up as a learning experience finish them out and learn from it. The grow bible is a must have to learn the ropes.

papapayne..thanks for gettin gback to me...im using fox farms ocean soil...and there nutrients...grow big big bloom and tiger bloom....who ever said this shit is easy..obviously is nuts...haha im going to keep these going till the end, but they are starting to look a little worse this morning...well the main one(the one that was dried out the most)
so whats the best kind of water to be using? reverse osmosis, tap that has sit out...or spring water thats been areated with airstone or shaken like a mother...?

humbling experience to say the least...a little defeated by mother nature but not totally...i really do appreciate all the sound help and advice...from all thank you...will keep pictures and updates daily

and ranger...thanks for being the calm through the storm (along with weeze) was tripping over here....gunna germ some new next week if theydont show some signs of improvement.

[Chromophore]

budbro when using Ocean Forest you must be really careful with added nutes. That soil is loaded and I have burned plants with it. It's great soil, but adding any ferts to it should be done sparingly. A few people have impressed on me that the Foxfarm feeding schedule is too hot. Especially the Grow Big I use at half strength, and during veg I added NO ferts ever, and my plants grew like freaking trees. Everyone has to learn what works for them and no two gardens are the same. But in the future you should try to adopt a "wait and see" approach with especially the high Nitrogen nutes. In other words, if the plant looks good, there is no reason to keep hitting it with heavy nutes. Eventually it will start to exhaust the soil, but if all of your other conditions are good and your pots are the right size you shouldn't really ever be in an emergency situation with nutes. I rarely hear anyone panicking over a plant that needs nutes, it's almost always the other way around. A continuous, low-level feeding is better than a cyclical, heavy-hitting regime. That becomes a stress unto itself.

[catbuds]

I, along with a lot of other experienced growers, have a tendency to forget a lot of first time growers have never grown any kind of plant before, so we really need a sticky thread that's pretty much 'plant basics 101'. Proper watering is THE most important part of helping a plant to thrive. First of all, when you pot up a plant, always leave enough room between the pot rim & soil surface for water. About 1"-1 1/2" for party cups up to 4" pots, the bigger the pot, the more room for water. 6" for a 5 gal bucket, sometimes I'll give it 8". Let the top of the soil dry, stick your finger in it & feel for the moisture (some people heft the pot & go by weight). If its dry an inch or so down, time for water. DONT let it dry to the bottom of the pot unless its a damned cactus! You don't want it so dry the soil shrinks, but should that happen, water lightly, not enough to hit the sides of the pot, keep it in the center to make sure its absorbed rather that travelling down the side between the soil & the pot. This will cause the soil to expand & fill the pot again. Once that happens, fill the pot to the top with water. Making sure you've used enough water to 'run through'. I usually let it sit in the run off 2-3 min. If there were any dry pockets in the soil, they will absorb the water. Then dump the access out of the catch pot. Water again when the top inch or so becomes dry again. That would be for a party cup (don't forget to punch 4 drain holes in these guys) or a 4" pot. The bigger the pot, the deeper you go on the surface dryness. NEVER give anything other than plain water to a plant in bone dry soil or one that is dry enough to wilt. Anytime you've let them over dry, let them sit in the run off in the catch pot untill they stop absorbing water. This is NOT over watering. Over watering occurs when you water too FREQUENTLY, not allowing the soil to dry somewhat between waterings. The roots litterly drown from lack of oxygen. Perfectly watered soil is soil that is moist, but still has small air spaces between the soil particals. Well drained soil holds water within itself while allowing very small air spaces for roots to breathe. Fox farm soils are a good example of this. When using a rich organic soil such as fox farms, hold off on the nutes untill the plants say they they need it. Usually 2-3 wks after transplanting into bigger pot/fresh soil, & about 1/4 strength the first feed, 1/2 for a while. I never use high nitro/ growth nutes stronger than 1/2 recommended strength because I use rich soils. I even use tiger bloom 1/4, then 1/2, & then the recommended amount 1/2 way into budding. Remember, you feed the soil & the soil feeds the plant.
-- read this post more than once. What you've done is burn the hell out of the root hairs by feeding dry soil. Nitrogen is the worse for burning, & I can tell by the color & texture of the leaves that this is a nitrogen burn. Also, the fact that there's no 'gloss' at all to the leaves, I would say they've been water stressed for a while before the nute burn. Probably not watering through & leaving a dry air pocket just below the root ball. This probably happened after the roots filled the pots & the plants required more water than before, but the water amount wasn't changed as they changed. If you do the catch pot thing & let them sit in the run through water a few min you can prevent this from happening again. Remember, before you feed, make sure there is some moisture to be felt by your finger tip slightly below the soil surface.
-- Sounds like its possible you will loose the worst one, & the others will be stunted & yield decreased because of this, but with proper watering & backing off with the nutes for a while, they should survive & give you something to harvest. Everybody here has given you good, sound advice, but like I said, we do tend to forget first time growers have never grown anything before, so better late than never, I've given you the basics. I hope I've made it easy to understand, if not, just ask & one of us will clarify. Good luck & I'll make it a point to check your thread often. :)

[Dutch Pimp]

http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/127522-simple-noob-instructions-growin-da-dankness.html#top

[budbro28]

yea ive never grown anything....thanks, got a friend giving me 4 clones from his so i dont have to start from scratch...thanks Dutch...
and just to clear the air, i apologize if this bugged anyone or if you found it to be an annoyance, some learn harder than others ie ME
good karma for all (feel like santa saying that) but really thank you everyone for the help...

[budbro28]

buddy just brought foxfarm sledgehammer over...1/2 tablespoon per gallon to flush salt buildup and shit...or should i quit adding things to it and just use water?

[catbuds]

Not a problem. You were not an annoyance. If we'd realized you had grown nothing at all before, we'd have started at the beginning, but we kinda started in the middle without giving you the basics first. Regardless of the subject, that can sometimes be an oversight of those who've been doing something all their lives. Keep posting & sending picks. I promise you more guidance from now on. Good luck with the clones & we'll help you every step of the way! :)

[catbuds]

Just use water for now. Then try it on one next watering. If its okay after 24 hrs, go ahead & use it, but I'd dilute it just a tad, maybe not fill the tablespoon all the way by a smidgen.

[budbro28]

how often on these waterings to "flush"

[Chromophore]

Great advice all around. I am lucky budbro because I had a lot of experience growing plants in many types of environments, both professionally and personally before I tried my hand at Cannabis. I too forget that people new to growing plants are really easily overwhelmed by all of this. The internet is so full of contradictory and vaguely explained instructions with Cannabis growing. That's why my strategy was to get on this forum and try to make friends with people who knew their stuff and were friendly and helpful, and limit the amount of info coming from all different directions. You're not an annoyance. I love helping people with growing plants. If you're studious and patient, you'll start to understand what these organisms are all about and how to tend them, and it is a singular joy when all the hard work pays off. But stuff happens, and even the best growers have problems. It's a continuous learning process, and helping others is part of that learning as well.

[catbuds]

Just once for this issue. Just fill the pot to the top with water & let it run through 3-4 times. What you'll really be doing is 'rinsing' away all the disolved nutes suspended between the soil particles. Provided you have no more problems, you'll only need to flush again 2 weeks before harvest. Not trying to overwhelm you with too much info at once, but should you find your pH off (sometimes caused by salts build up, causing nute lock out), its easier to correct & stabilize pH if you first flush out whatever happens to be causing the problem. But we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it. But do a plain water flush this time, & if you want, just try the sledgehammer on one plant the next watering. Like I said, if it looks fine the next day, go ahead & do the rest. I personally don't use a flushing product, just plain water, but that's because I use nutes lightly. Don't stress yourself so much over this. Remember they're only plants & you can always plant more. You might want to use bagseeds untill you build your confidence. :)

[catbuds]

Just use water for now. Then try it on one next watering. If its okay after 24 hrs, go ahead & use it, but I'd dilute it just a tad, maybe not fill the tablespoon all the way by a smidgen.

I meant to say 1/2 tablespoon. Didnt catch my boo boo untill it was too late to edit. SORRY!

[budbro28]

297687297688297689297690297691

[budbro28]

297692297693297694297695
as they stand as of now....the tops on all the plants look okay...so hopefully theyll come around...whats everyones take?

[Chromophore]

Is this after flushing/rinsing? To me it looks like you will get past the problem. The damaged leaves will not recover, but the new growth is trending toward normal. My call is that you lose some development time and perhaps see some stunted growth, but I think they'll live.:)

[budbro28]

yea after just normal water rinse. no flushing solution....will the damaged leaves still photosynthesize? ive trimmed the worse looking ones off and the tips off of alot that were crunchy brittle....i left all that felt soft and wilted hoping they recovery to somewhat of a normal state...

[Chromophore]

If there is living tissue, they will keep photosynthesizing, but you'll have to make a trade-off between that and wasting the plant's resources trying to keep a sick and dying leaf alive. Mostly you just want to avoid the temptation to fix everything at once. That can provide additional stress. Take off any obviously dead, diseased or crunchy leaves, but then let it be for a few days before removing anything else.

[budbro28]

cat so i did a test flush on one plant with half strength of the suggested dose...when i did this i put in a tray and allowed it to sit for a few minutes then took out of water, trashed excess, replaced her back on tray....my question is this (and ive posted a pictuer but i doubt youll see what im talking about) when i looked at water there was a film on water (the run off water) that looked almost like oil/gas on water...is this the build up washing out? ie the bad stuff?297696

also wanted to show you guys how i have the clones setup from my buds main lady...he used clonex rooting gel, 2x2 rockwool cubes cubes soaked in distilled water...???... he followed jorge cervantes to a T i watched him do it....(see youtube video) in picture to follow is how they currently sit...4-2ft T5 bulbs about 5inches from the top of the humidorwhich sits about 8 inches from the tops of the clones..i know some are gunna say im bitting off to much but whatever i got some freetime and i like to read...and if it hadnt been for this one NOOB rookie, bullshit..slacking on my part move...id have some real good looking ones right now.....for someone edumacated and stuff...i feel real dumb i dont know why but i just always have that feeling like im doing something wrong now...my soul hurts for hurting these beauts

297697

should light be a little closer?

[Chromophore]

Well, I'm not one to argue with Cervantes, but I would never jam a fresh cutting into distilled water and place it under anything remotely like a strong light. Distilled water is highly purified water. Water is a very strong and somewhat general solvent. It can dissolve a very wide array of compounds very efficiently. The more pure the water, the stronger the solvent effect. Think of a cutting like a delicate surgical procedure. The cutting needs to be protected from extreme conditions, so that it can concentrate on healing and growing. It has little in the way of defense. I soak my rockwool in slightly acidic, purified water with very very dilute nutes (1/50th strength), and once the cutting is in, I put it under a dome like you have there, but under very indirect light for at least the first week. On the other hand, some people have a lot of luck treating clones somewhat harshly and getting good results. From my experience cloning plants in general, every species and strain behaves differently, but stressing the thing right after it's been hacked off of it's Mother seems illogical to me. I would think about backing off the strong light, at least at first. The dome with the interior sprayed with water is good. Just be gentle. They are in distress until they form roots.

[tlranger]

Just me, agree with whole plan, except found distilled water works best for me, and no nutes.

[budbro28]

Jorge Cervantes: Taking Clones Part 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT_c-NH22Do)
followed that and this one
Jorge Cervantes - Taking Clones Part 2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Z3my7IT-A)


297702
this is them after the first night...cut em about 130 pm yesterday

[budbro28]

Well, I'm not one to argue with Cervantes, but I would never jam a fresh cutting into distilled water and place it under anything remotely like a strong light. Distilled water is highly purified water. Water is a very strong and somewhat general solvent. It can dissolve a very wide array of compounds very efficiently. The more pure the water, the stronger the solvent effect. Think of a cutting like a delicate surgical procedure. The cutting needs to be protected from extreme conditions, so that it can concentrate on healing and growing. It has little in the way of defense. I soak my rockwool in slightly acidic, purified water with very very dilute nutes (1/50th strength), and once the cutting is in, I put it under a dome like you have there, but under very indirect light for at least the first week. On the other hand, some people have a lot of luck treating clones somewhat harshly and getting good results. From my experience cloning plants in general, every species and strain behaves differently, but stressing the thing right after it's been hacked off of it's Mother seems illogical to me. I would think about backing off the strong light, at least at first. The dome with the interior sprayed with water is good. Just be gentle. They are in distress until they form roots.

hahaha uh-oh ill keep ya posted on how they do...keeping fingers crossed that i dont have to start from scratch...these four cuttings are "regular plants" non autoflowering

[tlranger]

You'll like not starting from scratch, especially if you liked mama!

[budbro28]

i was suprised at how they looked this morning i was sure i would see some signs of wilting or stress of some kind but they look identical from the time i cut them....so far so good.

[tlranger]

Of to a good start, half the battle. Be ready in say ten days to put them somewhere, so they don't slow down.

[budbro28]

Of to a good start, half the battle. Be ready in say ten days to put them somewhere, so they don't slow down.

and his ego was stroked....thanks man....what should they transplant into...pot size? some more death on the big plant but some nice fresh green growth at the bus sites...i keep having to trim these leaves down (cutting the tip off one day and come back the next to find out the same leaf has died a little more...???...) im following chromorphe on not messing with em till mid weekend or after..and suggestions updates ideas/ HIGH-deas are all welcome at this point

[Chromophore]

Oh you don't need to listen to me on the cloning stuff. I seem to be at odds with most people on that. But different methods work in different people's hands. I don't cut my leaves in half either;). I will say that over the years I have propagated many different types of plants by cloning, and they were all very different, some you can snap off a branch and chuck it in a glass of tap water and voila! roots! Other times it's like open heart surgery. I'm very much still learning with Cannabis just like you.

[budbro28]

Oh you don't need to listen to me on the cloning stuff. I seem to be at odds with most people on that. But different methods work in different people's hands. I don't cut my leaves in half either;). I will say that over the years I have propagated many different types of plants by cloning, and they were all very different, some you can snap off a branch and chuck it in a glass of tap water and voila! roots! Other times it's like open heart surgery. I'm very much still learning with Cannabis just like you.
yea with the clones i followed ranger and cervantes' method...but as for the other burnt to a crisp/deepfried plants...im just letting em battle it out...gunna water here tomorrow with just plain filtered water from the grocery store...or should i used distilled? can we get back on the proper water topic again?

[catbuds]

Chroms right on the distilled water thing. Water is the universal solvent. Use tap or spring, just check pH.
-- On the oil slick from your run off.. don't know exactly what it is (Weeze or Chromophore can chime in here), but it ain't good. Dude. After you let the plant sit in water, you should have run more water through it to rinse away what you just disloved. Next time, just let it dry for now. :)


P.S. I like Jorge, but don't always agree with him. ;)

[tlranger]

Wonder if this solvent stripping action is why I so little mold or disease problems since I switched? Bout the only time I lose one is because I get lazy and wait passed the two week time.

[OMB]

I don't pretend to really know squat, but I think people make cloning harder than it needs to be. I have gone from all the fussing and domes to a much easier method.
Cut it, split it, add root hormone and stuff it in some cutting mix. I don't bother with a dome anymore, I just put 'em in the loving shade of the mama plant and mist them a couple times a day.
The one on the far right in the pic was a low plant cut in only 2 inches of soil that sprouted roots in a week just like it appears. The others were cut, stuffed into a cup of water for a couple day's then planted as stated. Everybody looks fine and my blood pressure is lower this way. ;)
Just my newbie .02


297703

[catbuds]

OMB, the domes are really only needed when the RH is low. Which it can be even here once the heat comes on for the winter. Misting is a great thing! :)


I even clone tomatoes! Put out a 3' clone first thing in the spring & be the first one in the county to have ripe tomatoes! Bears heavier & faster than planting out a seedling. A clone is chronologically as old as the mother plant, more mature & ready to produce! :)

[crystaliscious]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried laying a branch down on the dirt and clipping it there til the roots grow…..that is how I propagate hydrangeas….
I know it's easier to take cuttings but it sounds like a fun experiment….

[OMB]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried laying a branch down on the dirt and clipping it there til the roots growâ?¦..that is how I propagate hydrangeasâ?¦.
I know it's easier to take cuttings but it sounds like a fun experimentâ?¦.

I am all about simplifying my life right now, :stoned:...I may try that! ;)

[crystaliscious]

I just take a branch and bend it towards the dirt then use a hair pin to clip in into the dirt- it grows into a new plant then I clip it off the mother….
My granny taught me this...

[OMB]

I just take a branch and bend it towards the dirt then use a hair pin to clip in into the dirt- it grows into a new plant then I clip it off the motherâ?¦.
My granny taught me this...

Like a Banyon tree...Cool!

[budbro28]

everyday i get mind blown by the new shit i read or find out from you fellow heads...its crazy...well i used distilled water...hopefully it works....now this is where i want to get back on the topic of water....people say dont use tap...people say dont use distilled....so which is the BEST all around to use....i was using tap water letting it sit out...but people told me this did nothing....now i get other advice so im torn....all of the cuttings look great... from what i can see...so fingers still crossed.

[tlranger]

Weez has some cool air layering pictures!! Doing some numbers might be tougher.

[d00g]

I know people have mentioned that the chlorination of tap water will help fight negative things that can happen in your soil but I believe the PH is more likely to be in a wider range, so you must test religiously. When you use distilled water, it does not have that chlorination, so you are more likely to have to add things such as Cal-Mag. I, myself, (I believe) experienced that issue from using reverse osmosis water with a calcium deficiency that I was able to correct and hopefully there's no damage. The distilled water is more likely to have consistent PH from jug to jug.

As long as you are testing your PH, not adding too many nutrients to the water, and watching your plants for ill effects, I think you can be successful with any water.

[budbro28]

well i checked the ladies for the first time today and did a little more pruning of the dead and dying leaves...they honestly dont look to bad after cutting the bad leaves away...i mean dont get me wrong they look like shit but not to bad lol....if that makes any sense...the bud sites do show some nice light green new growth...and catbuds...on the plant i tested the flush with...has showed significant signs of lightening up in color ( alot of people said that she was a little to dark of a green color) well after that flush i woke up to the leaves on the top buds a lot lighter... i will post pictures when i get home later this afternoon

[Chromophore]

I agree with OMB that we probably make more fuss out of cloning than we need to. The air in my region is bone dry, so I tend to be very protective of my clones because the dryness is such a stress. I also do believe that intense light is a bad idea right away. The cutting is trying to deal with a lot of new problems and does not have the metabolic flux to handle high light levels. Filtered or shaded light for at least the first few days, then if they're still upright and healthy you can start to give them more. Cervantes also believes in giving plants nutes through the end of flowering, so he obviously has ideas that don't line up with a lot of other people. But as OMB and I have discussed, the best thing to do is experiment. Put some in distilled water, some in tap, and some in pH 5.5 water with 1/50th diluted nutes (the method I use). Put some under bright light and some under filtered, etc. It's the only way to know what really works for your situation. I am now 12 for 14 for my Cannabis clones, which I suppose is pretty good, but obviously my method isn't fool-proof.

[Weezard]

I know people have mentioned that the chlorination of tap water will help fight negative things that can happen in your soil but I believe the PH is more likely to be in a wider range, so you must test religiously.

Chloramine is used in miniscule amounts and has absolutely no effect on PH.
All it does is keep the bad bugs at bay.

When you use distilled water, it does not have that chlorination,

Or trace elements!

so you are more likely to have to add things such as Cal-Mag. I, myself, (I believe) experienced that issue from using reverse osmosis water with a calcium deficiency that I was able to correct and hopefully there's no damage. The distilled water is more likely to have consistent PH from jug to jug.

Um, no! See below.
I'm not a real grower, but this stuff I know.
I'm kind of a science dick. :)

As long as you are testing your PH, not adding too many nutrients to the water, and watching your plants for ill effects, I think you can be successful with any water.

The last line is spot on!

But, here's some science:

297710297709297711

4 cuttings.
On the right, rainwater, on the left fresh from the tap.
End pic, tapwater in front, rainwater in back.
Draw your own conclusions.
Or, better yet, run your own test.


"The distilled water is more likely to have consistent PH from jug to jug.
As long as you are testing your PH, not adding too many nutrients to the water, and watching your plants for ill effects, I think you can be successful with any water." --D00g

Thought I'd mention here that in distilled and R.O water, PH is meaningless.
PH reads Potential Hydrogen.
Without free ions, there is no PH.
So, add the ferts and amendment and then test.
You will also find the the airstone causes a transitory lowering of the PH caused by dissolved CO2

Testing and experiments.
It's what I do. :)

Aloha,
Weezard

[OMB]

I'm one of those people that tend to overthink, then "overdo" everything. Lol...Hence why I have 5 fans and two kinds of lights in my 2 story, air exchanging cabinet.
...and the fussing I did over Cuttings! Kinda silly in retrospect. :stoned:
Anyway, I experimented....What the hell I figured, got plenty of cuttings to play with. I no longer mess with the top's, I only use the "twigs" from below. They are hardier, they root faster, and they seem to stay shorter if you don't stretch them.
I use tapwater that sits for at least 12 hours and I have no idea what the PH is. The Happy frog and the Black hills Gold I have used, combined with my tapwater show PH on my crappy little meter at about 6.5-6.8. Temps? From about 70-85.
Molly coddled?...Not anymore. Here's some mist twice a day, a touch of Grow Big and you are on your own little cuttings.
After they grow roots I up pot 2x's during Veg, wack the heads off at 30 day's and chuck 'em into flower.
Give them fresh air, circulate it and don't over water. I keep my little Ladybug Army on patrol and kill anything that dare's to show itself in my cabinet.
Probably going to make a few of the real Horticulterists cringe, but it seems to work for me. :) My current one's will tell the tale, we shall see if I have the quality I am looking for with my methods.

[crystaliscious]

I'm one of those people that tend to overthink, then "overdo" everything. Lol...Hence why I have 5 fans and two kinds of lights in my 2 story, air exchanging cabinet.
...and the fussing I did over Cuttings! Kinda silly in retrospect. :stoned:
Anyway, I experimented....What the hell I figured, got plenty of cuttings to play with. I no longer mess with the top's, I only use the "twigs" from below. They are hardier, they root faster, and they seem to stay shorter if you don't stretch them.
I use tapwater that sits for at least 12 hours and I have no idea what the PH is. The Happy frog and the Black hills Gold I have used, combined with my tapwater show PH on my crappy little meter at about 6.5-6.8. Temps? From about 70-85.
Molly coddled?...Not anymore. Here's some mist twice a day, a touch of Grow Big and you are on your own little cuttings.
After they grow roots I up pot 2x's during Veg, wack the heads off at 30 day's and chuck 'em into flower.
Give them fresh air, circulate it and don't over water. I keep my little Ladybug Army on patrol and kill anything that dare's to show itself in my cabinet.
Probably going to make a few of the real Horticulterists cringe, but it seems to work for me. :) My current one's will tell the tale, we shall see if I have the quality I am looking for with my methods.


Saw my first lady bug today!!! ( inside… I have seen them outside a lot)

[tlranger]

Saw my first lady bug today!!! ( inside… I have seen them outside a lot)

If you have lots outside, they will over winter on south side, or under the siding, any place warm, and some find their way in.

[budbro28]

297712297713297714297715297716297717297718

here ya go give me yalls take....chromorph...so i took the light and angled at the wall (which is white) so its not directly beaming on them....more tertiary lighting (is the the right context for the word) feeling like webster today with some big words ;)

open'd humidity dome and gave em all a little poke to see if they were all rigid stilll...yup...good to go still...

[Chromophore]

Not to belabor the sciency stuff, but a comment here about pH, because I know this is confusing to some with no chemistry background... as Weezard stated, pH is a measure of the amount of free Hydrogen, which in water is H+, it has a positive charge. Water all by itself undergoes rapid breakdown and reassembly, that is, H2O (or HOH) dissociates to H+ and OH-, then quickly re-combines to HOH again. This process is incredibly rapid and continuous. The measure of free H+ at any moment is pH. But because scientists are nerds and can never make anything easy, it is expressed as the negative logarithm of the value. So, more H+ gives a pH as a low number, and less H+ is a higher number:wtf:. The measure of free H+ in pure water is nearly insignificant, but does have a value, as I explained above. Scientists arbitrarily assign this value as 7. As H+ increases, pH value goes down (we say acidic), and as the concentration of H+ goes down, pH goes up (we say basic, or alkaline). When ions are dissolved in water, which is the case with tap or nuted water , etc., the additional charges present influence the pH as they will interact with, absorb or even generate their own H+. Plants have evolved mechanisms that allow efficient uptake of ions and chelates between pH 5.5 and 7. Out of this range things get ugly fast. That's why you pH AFTER you add all the stuff to your water, regardless of it's source.

Curiously, because pH is measured on a logarithmic scale, each pH unit represents a TEN-FOLD increase or decrease in H+ concentration. The lesson from this is that you must not take for granted the differences in pH because they represent a larger scale change than it appears.

End lecture. Commence toking.

[budbro28]

297719297720
pH reading of my TAP WATER
and PPM reading of the same...

[Chromophore]

Looks good. pH is fine and ppms are reasonable. My tap is fairly hard and is usually around pH 6.2 and 220ppm. Now check again next time you add something like nutes or molasses or whatever. Sometimes it's surprising how it changes. Also I have noticed that my tap pH varies over time. I've seen it at 5.2 and I've seen it pushing 7. Temperature affects pH so try to take the readings when the solution is about the same temp.

[catbuds]

Looking so much better! Good for you! Here's just a little something I've noticed about pH over the years. Sometimes a plant can be affected more by a sudden change in pH than by a greater change that occured slowly. Something to keep in mind. Should plants seem ill, & you've rulled out disease or insects, but you have NO testing equipment, a plain water flush will USUALLY remedy the issue by rinsing away disolved stuff the plants aren't liking. Having all the testing gear helps identify the problem so you can quickly slove it, & once you know the cause, you can prevent it in the future. It also helps train your eye so you can identify the problem at a glance. Every single problem a plant can have has a 'look' to it. It takes time to learn to 'read' your plants. Many years in fact. So approach this like every grow is a learning experience & remember that even the best, most experienced farmer can have crop failure. It happens. You know how stress can kill a plant? It can do the same to YOU! So don't sweat the small stuff. Plants are easily replaced! There's only one you! (Sometimes you guys get so stressed, I worry more about the grower than the plant!) ;)

[tlranger]

(Sometimes you guys get so stressed, I worry more about the grower than the plant!) ;)

Their always ready to jump, ain't they. And every new thing that comes along has it's ying and yang.

[budbro28]

yea i had the barrel in the mouth for sure...just dont like failure...but you need some to learn from...if it was easy everyone would be doing it i suppose...ill get it...i got the determination....UPDATE: clones still real perky no wilting what so ever...hoping they keep up the good work so to speak...will post pictures later today

[tlranger]

Hopefully the clones are over the first huddle now, and running, keep'em moist for now. And no strong light.

[catbuds]

Fear of failure is something that seems to be instilled in us at a young age. Not sure if its 'nurture or nature', but it sure is hard to over come. & even then, do we outgrow it, or just get too old to give a shit?!? Hey, I think human nature is much harder to understand than plants are!

[budbro28]

well i went out and did something you old heads should be proud of....i went to the store and got this thing called a BOOK...its got these pages with writing in it and pretty colored pictures....its so neat....now i just need to figure out how to read...but seriously took papapaynes advice and got the cannabis grow bible...already into and im hooked...im a sponge in a sea of cannabis knowledge...slowly soaking it up...clones are looking great and are still really perky like my high school girlfriend...will post pics later

[Chromophore]

Excellent.

[budbro28]

297782297783297784297785297786
morning everyone...here are some pics of the clones as they sit this saturday morning...took the cuttings on wed or thursday, cant rememeber right now (just woke up and hit the tube:smokebong:) still perky and no drooping? if they look like this now do you think ive got 4 new plants? or is it still a waiting game to see if they take?...my big plant doesnt seem to be doing much, just find more dead leaves each morning, cut those off and spritz her lightly.....but the two little ones are perky and pointing there leaves towards the lights. will update again tomorrow

[tlranger]

[quote=budbro28](just woke up and hit the tube:smokebong:)

With you there! How are you watering the babies? Spritzing daily, watch for mold, and try to keep off of reflective walls.

[catbuds]

Your girls are out of the dark. Two small ones will be good, biggest one will be slowed down a bit. Keep going with the clones. As long as they're happy, you're doing it right. Time to relax! You've 'conqured the hill'! ;)

[budbro28]

just been spritzing them...they rockwpool is still pretty wet..ive been opening the dome to allow fresh air in daily....was gunna start mixing up some water with some big bloom and start dipping the rockwool cubes in it each day....

[budbro28]

Your girls are out of the dark. Two small ones will be good, biggest one will be slowed down a bit. Keep going with the clones. As long as they're happy, you're doing it right. Time to relax! You've 'conqured the hill'! ;)

how do you know this by just looking at them? like what exactly do you look for or see that tells you this?

[tlranger]

gunna start mixing up some water with some big bloom and start dipping them

Save your big bloom for a little later, let them get rooted before you try and kill them. I like to water then every six hours.

[OMB]

how do you know this by just looking at them? like what exactly do you look for or see that tells you this?

...because she has been doing this longer than you have been alive? ;) There are a number of people who's input I value...just a heads up, she is one of them. :thumbsup:
So, what say Mama Catbuds?

[OMB]

...because she has been doing this longer than you have been alive? ;) There are a number of people who's input I value...just a heads up, she is one of them. :thumbsup:
So, what say Mama Catbuds?

Damn...I just read that. Sorry budbro, I didn't mean to sound so flippant! I better get some meds...:(

[budbro28]

...because she has been doing this longer than you have been alive? ;) There are a number of people who's input I value...just a heads up, she is one of them. :thumbsup:
So, what say Mama Catbuds?

wasnt meant disrespectfully...im trying to learn...i know she knows what she is doing...but id still like to know what she is looking at or what is telling her this...its my inquisitive nature....

[OMB]

wasnt meant disrespectfully...im trying to learn...i know she knows what she is doing...but id still like to know what she is looking at or what is telling her this...its my inquisitive nature....

Me too budbro. Alway's looking to learn something new, that's how you keep Growing. (No pun intended) ;) Sorry again though...my head was in another thread I had already replied too.
Hopefully Catbuds will jump in with her expertise and we will both know about you cuttings diagnosis. :thumbsup:

[tlranger]

...because she has been doing this longer than you have been alive? ;)

Surely Budb is older than 10or11, you shouldn't talk sh#t about a sweet young thing.

[OMB]

Surely Budb is older than 10or11, you shouldn't talk sh#t about a sweet young thing.

The silver tongued devil himself....you are smooth ranger! :cool:

[tlranger]

297796

[budbro28]

this comment is going to piss some of you off but oh well...my curiosity got the best of me and i took one clone and open'd up the rockwool to see if there was any growth...nope...not a single root sprout on day 4-5...i have one clone that was starting to show some wilting so i used that one as the sacrificial lamb so to speak....other three are still perky and lush green...will keep updated....

[growdemon]

dude! Relax man. your fucking with your plants too too much. and clones grow super super slow. if you want faster results, pop some more seeds they will outgrow clones any day.


you could also get or build a clone machine, which will help speed up the process. I just made one, we shall see how it works! I clipped budding stems. lol. prob will take firkin forever but ohwell im in no hurry

so far 1 week in root hormones and cup of water, nothing. yet. 1 day in clone machine still nothing... lol Welcome to the Party! :thumbsup:

[budbro28]

dude! Relax man. your fucking with your plants too too much. and clones grow super super slow. if you want faster results, pop some more seeds they will outgrow clones any day.


you could also get or build a clone machine, which will help speed up the process. I just made one, we shall see how it works! I clipped budding stems. lol. prob will take firkin forever but ohwell im in no hurry

so far 1 week in root hormones and cup of water, nothing. yet. 1 day in clone machine still nothing... lol Welcome to the Party! :thumbsup:

hahaha...story of my life...yeah im gunna throw some new seeds in some paper towels next week probably:thumbsup:
probably do 4 of the same i germed in november....and keep the three i royally fucked up and see how they turn out...wont be fucking em up like this last batch...

[Weezard]

Why would we get ticked off? :)

They are your babies to screw up any way you wish.
If I offer good advice, and it gets ignored, no problem.
You are going to learn something that way.

We were all in your position at one time.
I was particularly hard to tutor.
Could not leave well enough alone.
I still owe a couple of my mentors an apology or two. :D

But I'm sure they did some grinning watching me thrash about.


Aloha,
Weeze

[budbro28]

im really trying to do what yall tell me....i swear...i really do appreciate they assitance...if this shit were easy i suppose everyone would do it huh? i WILL get this down...I WILL....mark my MoFo'ing words...determinations is key. if you feel like im ignoring youre advice...i promise it is not intentional...ive put all nutes in the closet and wont touch em till plants start showing signs of wanting them..please dont stop helping me out....older advice tends to be the advice that counts...with age comes wisdom...

[tlranger]

Live and learn, learn and love

[budbro28]

Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu---May all beings everywhere be happy and free and may the thoughts, words and actions of my own life contribute in some way to that happiness and to that freedom for all.

[Chromophore]

budbro I learned some time ago when I was new to lab research that the way to go when you are curious is to do two things, 1. do what you've been told, and 2. do a second experiment the way you want, but don't tell the boss unless it works. If it doesn't, the boss is no more the wiser and you learned something. If it does, he thinks you're a genius.;)

[tlranger]

this comment is going to piss some of you off but oh well...my curiosity got the best of me and i took one clone and open'd up the rockwool to see if there was any growth...nope...not a single root sprout on day 4-5...i have one clone that was starting to show some wilting so i used that .

Just want to ask what you did see, I know you said no roots, but can you describe the condition of the stem from the bottom up. And what's your temp, environment and water.

[budbro28]

well the stem seemed to be almost soggy... i used distilled water to soak the rock wool cubes in...havent been watering them at all because the rockwoll seemed to hold water pretty good....on day three i took a paper towel out set all rock wool cubes on it for a few seconds to dry em out (they seemed a little to wet) didnt want to drown them...been opening dome daily and have been spraying the dome hood with distilled water....the stem its self seemed to have some grayish spots towards the end where it was split...i can always reopen it and take a picture...the same one if that helps ranger.....i also germ'd 4 of the same seeds i started in this grow to "start over" in a sense....hopefully they all take and ill have 8 plants but if the clones dont take ill have the 4 new seeds to go with....

[tlranger]

The soggy and the gray, does not sound good at all. And the wilty is your first sign. I use a tropical fish tank heater in my reservoir which keeps temp about 80° or slightly higher. Cold water watering can knock them in the head, but don't cook them either.

[budbro28]

297804297805297806297807297808297809297810
The soggy and the gray, does not sound good at all. And the wilty is your first sign. I use a tropical fish tank heater in my reservoir which keeps temp about 80° or slightly higher. Cold water watering can knock them in the head, but don't cook them either.
the first picture shows the discoloration but that was the worse looking one...whats your take range?

ill open that one back up and take a picture....its about 75-80 in the dome...and ive been spraying with water that is room temp about 75...i dont know what else i can be doing other than let go and let the cannabis gods take the reigns lol....

[Chromophore]

Budbro that is exactly what some of mine looked like that I lost this week. They were about 10 days in. A few had sprouted roots and were fine but 4 of them started wilting and getting "sunken" areas on the leaves. I pulled them out and they had the same grayish, soggy look. The one condition I did not control well was temp. When I read ranger's comment the light-bulb went off. I was giving them cold water and the room temp was 50-70F, usually on the cooler end. I took some new ones tonight and I'm going to put a heat mat under them with some thing to use as a spacer, so they're not sitting directly on it. Hopefully it will be enough to warm up the interior of the dome.

[Weezard]

"Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu---May all beings everywhere be happy and free and may the thoughts, words and actions of my own life contribute in some way to that happiness and to that freedom for all."

There ya go.

Kinda sums it all up.

Short version?

Malama da aina, and noho pono!
Love the land and be a good person.

No worries brah.
That was Hawaiian, sideways sarcasm.
I'm enjoying this thread.
And I'm learning from it.

So, unlax, and mahalo,

Wee

[Weezard]

That is stem rot.

It actually happens faster as temperatures rise.

Cut it off, dip the cut end in any good fungicide.
And try again.

I don't get rot anymore.

Not sure if you skipped post #179, or just didn't understand it?

Maybe go read it again.
Look at the pictures.
For rainwater, read distilled water.
Same thing.

And that's why I no longer get pythium on my cuttings. :)

Thanks for proving my point, brah.
Like I said, we can all learn from your thread. :)

Mahalo,
Weeze

[budbro28]

i read it but didnt really understand it....some times i have a hard time to decipher some of these responses....should i cut that end off and redip in root hormone?

[OMB]

Budbro that is exactly what some of mine looked like that I lost this week. They were about 10 days in. A few had sprouted roots and were fine but 4 of them started wilting and getting "sunken" areas on the leaves. I pulled them out and they had the same grayish, soggy look. The one condition I did not control well was temp. When I read ranger's comment the light-bulb went off. I was giving them cold water and the room temp was 50-70F, usually on the cooler end. I took some new ones tonight and I'm going to put a heat mat under them with some thing to use as a spacer, so they're not sitting directly on it. Hopefully it will be enough to warm up the interior of the dome.

Good question budbro, I am wondering that too.
I only use water that is in jugs in my cabinet, including my misting bottle. That way the temp is always the the same as the plants. I lost a cutting to the same grayish, blackish
issue early on. I suspected it was too moist and started fungus and rot instead of rooting.
Beats me, but I don't let 'em get too wet anymore...... and Thanks Weezard, I was having heat issues about that time too. That explains it.

[Weezard]

i read it but didnt really understand it....some times i have a hard time to decipher some of these responses....should i cut that end off and redip in root hormone?

Yes.

But the culprit here is water that is too pure.
It pulls salts from plants through osmotic pressure, has 0 trace elements and no anti bacterial or anti fungal additives.

Had my cuttings go all sickly in distilled water.
Got tired of that.
Hmmm, I thought, that's exactly why they put chloramine in our tap water.
To kill da "bad bugs".

So I looked chloramine up.
Plants are unaffected by it, the roots don't take it up. (sound familiar?) :)

Switched to tap water.
Problem solved.

If that is not clear enough, I give up.
It's the best I can do.

Aloha,
Weeze

[Weezard]

Good question budbro, I am wondering that too.
I only use water that is in jugs in my cabinet, including my misting bottle. That way the temp is always the the same as the plants. I lost a cutting to the same grayish, blackish
issue early on. I suspected it was too moist and started fungus and rot instead of rooting.
Beats me, but I don't let 'em get too wet anymore...... and Thanks Weezard, I was having heat issues about that time too. That explains it.


Not the moisture either my friend.
Think about it.
Ya don't get any moister than sitting in the water up to your neck, yah?
As long as that water has air dissolved in it they will not drown.

It's the reason I quit using rockwool.
Those cubes "sog out" and go stagnant unless you give them fresh, well aerated, water at least once a day.
And if you do get them to root, the Rockwool can go stagnant later on and cause stem rot in an adult plant.
Hate the stuff.

Not too crazy about Hydrotron either, for different reasons.
But that's a whole 'nother rant. :D

Aloha,
Weeze

[Chromophore]

Crap. Now I'm really confused. I'll tell you, there is more conflicting info about cloning Cannabis than just about any subject I've come across. I'm thinking starting from seed might be the best way to go. Not sure why I'm cloning all this stuff anyway. I haven't even had my first harvest yet. Those rockwool cubes bother me too. Something I have to treat with acid because it's too alkaline to support plant growth? :wtf: That should have been my first clue.

[budbro28]

well shucks.....yea ive made peace with the fact these probably wont make it...thats why i germ'd 4 more seeds today....obviously this isnt my calling...fucking bummed...calling it a night with a chocolate milkshake and a back rub from the lady...

[OMB]

Thanks Weeze, I appreciate the lesson. I have never used Rockwool personally, but it sure looks like a mushy sponge when wet. Lot's of people using it, and it seems to work, but I guess I'm just a down low dirt guy. :)
I prefer to water everyday as well. Frankly, I just like interacting with the plants. Makes me feel good. :jointsmile:

[OMB]

Crap. Now I'm really confused. I'll tell you, there is more conflicting info about cloning Cannabis than just about any subject I've come across. I'm thinking starting from seed might be the best way to go. Not sure why I'm cloning all this stuff anyway. I haven't even had my first harvest yet. Those rockwool cubes bother me too. Something I have to treat with acid because it's too alkaline to support plant growth? :wtf: That should have been my first clue.

Chromophore....Save yourself some grief man. Take a couple cuttings, prep the stem,dip in the root powder and stick it in the medium. I have used both Black gold potting soil and Black gold cutting mix. The Mix is what I'm using right now. Throw them in a dome, mist 'em a couple times a day and don't put in strong direct light.
Done....quit sweating 'em buddy, you have seeds if it doesn't work. No worries, your plants are friggin' beautiful, you can play with the cuttings next go. :thumbsup:

[Chromophore]

OMB. good words.

[tlranger]

Yes, Weez is right, the rotting and the mold and other diseases, progress more rapidly at the higher temps. What I am saying is that I want the cuttings to take off, and grow roots before this starts. As soon as the end becomes infected then the cutting loses its ability to take up water, and then is more susceptible to any of the above.

The cold, which Weez might not have on the island, slows the cutting down, which allows these things to occur, but doesn't CAUSE them to occur. The cause is the plant pulling these bad things in though the stem, which is unfiltered by the root tissue. There are many cell membranes in the roots that are made to keep the bad stuff out. It grows in dirt but you'll find no dirt inside a healthy stem, the roots are picky that way.

The warmth that I supply just keeps the new cutting at an optimum growing condition, so that the roots can form at the sharp cut end, or the spilt area which some prefer, or the scraped area on the stem. some like. My fav is the node point under the medium that contains cells that are still deciding what they want to be. These can quickly become roots and thus filters to take up what the plant really wants, not just anything available. Example, some color flowers by cutting and placing in dye, with roots to filter this doesn't happen.

Air layering may be the ultimate answer, but far too labor intensive for the numbers I want.

So basically I'm thinking it's a race, between the plant growing roots, and the invasion of whatever might be able to kill it. The temp gives the root development an edge, and that is why I use the distilled water, the cleanest I could think of (free of pathogens) is just another advantage. The rootting hormones protect and encourage, which is another edge.

But I am just an old fart, who found something that works for me, and am guessing as to why it works. Placing the cuttings in a glass or beer bottle filed with clean water(no pathogens) probably protects the stem while it tries to reroot. Plus if it has be sterilized, by your water man, so much the better.

Take with a grain of salt, they are few things in science we know "all" about.

[d00g]

If one were to sprinkle Mycorrhizael powder into the growing medium (or dip the bottom of the cutting in it before putting in the growing medium), would this help in the use of RO/distilled water because it adds positive bacteria and fungus? I have been told to sprinkle the powder around the new growing medium when transplanting a whole plant to a new pot and make sure the roots are touching the powder for the beneficial bacteria and fungi, so wouldn't the same concept apply to a cutting?

[budbro28]

well update on the seeds after 12 hours...got some superseeds... or something all have burst the seed shell and three out of 4 have the tap root already out...gunna wait till about 1/4 inch and put em in some dirt...and start ALL over

[budbro28]

i think im gunna make a new grow log for this second batch of seeds...what yall think or should i keep it on this one?

[OMB]

i think im gunna make a new grow log for this second batch of seeds...what yall think or should i keep it on this one?

I think you should start a new one. New Grow, New plants, new log. I think it will keep those results clearer than adding pages to your first grow.

[tlranger]

Not sure why I'm cloning all this stuff anyway. I haven't even had my first harvest yet.

It's really hard to clone after you harvest, having said that I know that you can reveg. But by the time you get to the smoke report time, even that opportunity may be passed. Then your sitting in the way chair with your buds saying this number 5 is some really good sh#t, wish I had more.

[tlranger]

:jointsmile: yes start a new one, we've already jacked this one enough, give us a new one to work on.:thumbsup:

[OMB]

Hahahahaha....You are right ranger!

[budbro28]

haha will do...ill start it up when i plant em in some dirt....

[budbro28]

would actinovate be a suitable fungacide to dip the cutting in? or sprinkle in the rockwool to keep from funky shit happening...open'd doom and got a funky dirty sneaker smell

[growdemon]

get some, seed starting soil! its full proof!

[Weezard]

Nothing is fool proof.
Fools will rise to the challenge. :D

He's right about the medium.
Starter soil, un-nuted coco, perlite, vermiculite, peat, shredded cardboard, tap water in a beer bottle.
All will work.
Just keep the lighting low and the air flowing, they will root.
If, nothing bad happens. ;)

Aloha,
Wee

[growdemon]

haha Wez! how about idiot proof! :dance:

saw dust can work wonders too!

[catbuds]

:jointsmile: yes start a new one, we've already jacked this one enough, give us a new one to work on.:thumbsup:

-- Damned I needed a good laugh! Funny, but true. We are SOOO bad! Just for the record, I HATE ROCKWOOL!

[budbro28]

so im starting to get some leaf tip burn, i have added nothing since the great tragedy of the religious weekend, but its nothing major, just noticing it in new groth, with this said its personally hard for me to distinguish why its burning due to the damage prior. Can i get some assitance?

[budbro28]

well i cut one down, shes pretty frosty and stinks to high heaven...will post pictures will probably be cutting the big one down next week, got the new batch going solid, giant fat healthy leaves on all...will post pics soon

[tlranger]

Since the middle of November, correct? Should set you on the couch. But if your like a lot of the US you are not doing anything anyway?

[budbro28]

yea end of november...and my sweet coffee ryder just started to really flower so i have a nice gap in between harvests...shouldnt be with out bud here for a few months lol thank god. now if i can just master the curing down...been reading a shit ton...thinkin of doing the standard canning method...burp it every day for a few hours then let sit in cool dry place for a few weeks...any suggestions?

[Shovelhandle]

Yes.
Remember that the cannabis will reach moisture equilibrium with it's surroundings. If your stash is curing and is at 65% moisture and you open the jar in a room with 98% humidity the stash will absorb water instead of transpiring it. So, don't 'burp' when it's raining.

[Weezard]

Buy a couple small humidity meters.
($8 - 25ea.)

Put one in the jar and one right next to the jar.

I used to think I could sense the humidity by the way I felt.
Boy, was I wrong!
Worse than random. :(
A meter is a must.

I use Caliber IIIs
Bought 6 of them.
298243
Way cheaper than even one jar of ruined meds.

Never let them get below ~ 55% or they will stop curing!
And it can not be restarted by moistening.

Or over ~ 70%.
That will ruin it in a matter of days.

I like 62% for several months.
298244
It just keeps getting better. :)

Aloha, Yall
Happy curing.
Weeze