Will 150w HPS outperform 372w of T5HO?

[OMB]

Well, I'm going to Find out! Only really applies to me and my particular grow, but a worthy effort anyway. A couple day's ago I put two under the T5's, and two under the HPS.
I think the HPS at 150w is about 18,000 Lumen?...and the T5's are pushing 35,000 Lumen. I will throw a couple pics up when the "wakeup" tonight, should be interesting anyway.
Predictions?

[jsengbusch88]

Glad you are doing this!

Excited to see what happens man, I think the HPS will out perform the T5's overall...I'm also a sucker for HPS.:twocents:

[OMB]

It's a win/win for me either way! Hahaha....but interestingly enough, the plant closest to the T5's that is under the HPS is clearly leaning towards the T5's! Huh...I will create a little more separation and see if it continues.
I will say my girl is getting tired of hearing about them and me fussing over them....I think she is jealous!

[jsengbusch88]

It's a win/win for me either way! Hahaha....but interestingly enough, the plant closest to the T5's that is under the HPS is clearly leaning towards the T5's! Huh...I will create a little more separation and see if it continues.
I will say my girl is getting tired of hearing about them and me fussing over them....I think she is jealous!

Stoked for some pics dude.

My girl gets the same way, but I've been showing her some of the basics so I think it's making her more interested lol

Are you still planning on doing hydro at some point?

[thenewgrow]

why do you over power the T5¨s watt .

if you are gona do this test why not do
t5's 150 watt
hps 150 watt.

i just dont get the over all pics that you are trying to get when you overpower the T5's over the hps ?

--peace--

[OMB]

Stoked for some pics dude.

My girl gets the same way, but I've been showing her some of the basics so I think it's making her more interested lol

Are you still planning on doing hydro at some point?

I don't know yet....I seem to be doing ok and frankly, I don't want to invest anymore into it. I would probably send myself over the edge with that! Hahaha
My girl has a green thumb and I want her to "takeover" a couple clones as her own, we shall see. If she is involved, she will be more tolerant. :kisslove:

[OMB]

why do you over power the T5¨s watt .

if you are gona do this test why not do
t5's 150 watt
hps 150 watt.

i just dont get the over all pics that you are trying to get when you overpower the T5's over the hps ?

--peace--

That's just what I have running and I'm not pulling bulbs to make it "even". I think it's more a cost thing to run as well. The T5's have more watts, but less amps.
If it was "even" in Watt's, I'm pretty darn sure the T5's would lose.
I'm not getting all scientific or anything, more for my amusement than anything.

[Shovelhandle]

the T5HO light will produce more usable light, if you use the correct lamps. 2700K for bloom, 6500K for Grow.

[OMB]

the T5HO light will produce more usable light, if you use the correct lamps. 2700K for bloom, 6500K for Grow.

Running 4 four foot 2700's and 2 6500's in the 6 bulb fixture. 2 two foot 6500's on the side light. I wanted 2700's for the sides but the grow shop I went to only had 6500's in two foot. Hmmmm.....should I run all 6 of the 4 foot fixture at 2700? I have the bulbs.

[catbuds]

OMB, I'm planning on running 6500k in my T5 system untill a little past half way in budding before I switch out to 2700k, only to reduce stretch to keep mine small. But... I am underlighting with reveal cfl's 1200 lumens ea, 2500k. I don't mind stretch in the lower branches/buds, actually want it to bring them up & out to receive both lights. This will be especially beneficial to me, because I hand pollinate the lowest 2-3 buds on my girls, & I want the plumpest, healthiest seeds possible.
-- Many growers are using MH or 6500k T5's through budding to keep buds tight & compact. It's kind of a new trend, & makes perfect sence to me. But I am switching out to warm lights toward the end for trichrome production & ripening. Another thing about the CFL's. Did a little research & found them to put out more uv than any other fluorescent. BIG aid in budding & ripening! & get this.... been reading a lot of research reports from big universities, & it would appear that for tiny grow areas, the set up I've got going will be more productive than the lower watt HID's I'd have to use in such a confined space as mine. So I'm pretty happy with what I have for now
-- So there's a bit of debate going on about cool vrs warm lights in budding. So I'd say for now, lets call it a personal choice. Cool lighting = smaller, tighter buds. Warm lighting = bigger, fluffier buds. Warm underlighting is my own personal twist on the cool light budding thing. :) :) :)

[OMB]

Thank catbuds! Good info. Maybe that's why my buds are tight? The mix of warm and cold? I was thinking of adding some CFL sidelights, I have a few laying around I used for mama for awhile.
Speaking of mama plant....I think she might be rootbound. She has leaf yellowing and some droop too. I have a bigger pot for her, I'm going to do that right now..... I can't stand to see her less than Vibrant.
Right now I am watching my side by side T5HO vs. 150W HPS "bud off". It's been 7 day's and I think the HPS is slightly ahead as far as any growth or color, but no flower's yet on any of them.
But.....My new clones are popping roots, my first buds from the tops of the "stumpy's" are drying, and it's Friday night. It's all good. :cool:
"Here I come Mama, I have a new pot for you"...If Mama is Happy, well, you know the rest. ;)

I have decided I will call you "Mama catbud's" ;) Just seems right to me.
Thanks for the help "mama".

[catbuds]

LMAO! mama's always glad to help! :) :) :)

[catbuds]

BTW. HPS tends to cause stretching. Look closley & see if there are more leaf sets, or just stem stretching. If its just stem stretching, the buds will be longer, so you'll need to compare by dried harvest weight. That will be the only way to determine if your growing more bud, or just more stem. :) I like experimenting! :) :) :)

[OMB]

I will check for that mama catbuds. I am ok for some stretch, but I do like my stumpy plants due to height restrictions. Gotta keep 'em under 3 feet. :(
No problem with my other two I flowered, after the LST they never broke 9 inches tall! Haha.....but 16"s wide. Go stumpy's! :dance
The new 4 in flower are a little bigger, they vegged for a little over 4 weeks. They are about 12"s. Or were, until I LST'd them tonight. They are about 8"s now.
I'm having a great time with this, thanks for the help mama.

[OMB]

All the girls are showing flower's now, but I have to say the T5HO plants have more developed flower's at this point. Right now, the T5's are winning. Size is equal, though I have tied the the T5 girls down while leaving the HPS girls alone. (testing that penetration thing)
I will try to get some pics up, I realize this thread is useless without them. :(

[catbuds]

Hey, I hope you cloned that 4" top you cut off. If not, hope you ate it ! LOL! Thats what I do if they're too sm to root, I eat a lot of pot! Probably the the only healthy thing I eat, grazing my garden!
-- Yea! Go T5's! Can't wait to get get over this flu & finish my cabinet! New 6tube 4' T5's & lots of cfl underlighting & side lighting. For now, they're under plain ole T8's + gro-lux side lighting. Awesome little fat sumo wrestlers, but I'm afraid if they get to big for this light to penetrate, they'll start stretching & get leggy. T5's give pretty good penetration as fluorescents go, so if your restricting size, sometimes hids can be a waste as the T5's will do just as well. So, seems like I've found someone to back me up when I find myself arguing this point! I really like them, enough that my hps just may stay in that box in attic! Since I do grow outdoors too, it doesn't make sense for me to grow BIG plants indoors.
-- If you're going to do any side/underlighting with cfls, try the reveal 20watt (75watt replacement). Awesome little warm lights. Use them in your home too. Great to read by. They're made to simulate sunlight, & they do great things for a plant in flower! On another forum, a couple of the guys have given up big plants & hids in favor of T5's on a sog. They all agreed T5's produced nice tight compact buds. Shovelhandle has a nice pic of a plant he flowered under them. Its one of his older posts & I can't find it, but maybe he'll jump in here & post it for you to see.
-- The reveals are 2500k with an output of 1200 lumens for the 20 watt. :) :) :)

[OMB]

I sure did clone 'em Mama Catbuds! Though I found the tops to take the longest to root compared to a lower "twig" type cutting. Eat 'em? Now there's a thought...little
bit of balsamic vinegar in that salad? Lol
On the sidelighting, I was doing some thinking...Do the BOTTOMS of the leaves Photosynthesize? If not, shouldn't the sidelighting be slightly angle downward to catch as much of the tops of the leaves as possible?
Those T5's are quite impressive, though I'm not sure how "fair" the comparison of 150 watts of HPS to 372 watts of T5 is.
You are right about the smaller tight buds though...The upper buds on my 1st grow were tight. Some of the smaller, inner plant ones were "airy", though I know I can do better.
They really got very little 'nutes...a vacation towards the end and temp issues my caretaker had, not to mention the Evil Spider mite attack shortened my flowering
a bit.
The new girls are all bigger than the 1st grow and looking healthy so we shall see. They are sleeping now but I will get some pics up tonight.
I have more clones than I need now, gonna help another guy out with some of my "stumpy" strain and see how he does with it. He is a veteran grower and it will be interesting to see how he does with them.
Thanks Mama!

[Chromophore]

The underside of the leaf can absorb light, but most of the chlorophyll containing cells are concentrated near the upper surface. So energy absorption will be much less efficient. Also the surface tissue on the underside is different in composition than that on the upper surface, and tends to be more reflective.

[catbuds]

Those smaller inner buds (lower buds), you were talking about being "airy", that's what the underlighting is for. It will help plump them up & make them tighter. I harvest the top riper buds first & the lower ones aren't far behind with the underlighting, just a matter of days. Or if you prefer, harvest the whole plant, but then I seperate the riper tops (some amber trichs, buts still mostly milky) for pm & save the lower buds (milky, but no amber yet), for am. That way you have 2 different highs from one plant, & keeping them seperate, you don't end up with an 'up' high at bed time, or a sleepy 'down' high early in the day when you have things to do. But definitely underlighting will make those lower buds bigger & tighter. As for the photosynthesis, the leaf is translucent enough for that extra light to reach the photo cells, so yeah. If you try it, you'll like the results.
-- I kinda miss the old days.. 600+ big momas outdoors & 20-30 3 1/2- 4 footers indoors 3X's a year. Kinda crimps the breeding experiments, but too many thieves & snitches to go commercial where I am now, so what would I do with it all? Just one of the many reasons why I find the T5's & cfls so perfect for what we do, sm personal stealth grows. :) :) :)

[catbuds]

Chromophore, I had to stop for a minute & think about the size of your trees! OMB & I are growing little guys, SOG. We try to finish around 2' tall. The underlighting hits the sides of the bottom half of our plants, getting light to the lower buds. But you're kinda right about the undersides of leaves, but the photo cells still respond somewhat to the smaller amount of light they get from underneath, but we're mainly concerned with lighting the lower smaller buds to beef them up. This wouldn't help you at all. Your jungle is too tall for underlighting to reach them unless you used pole lamps!!!! I'm still playing the cartoon in my mind where you get lost in 'the jungle'! LOL! :) :) :)

[Chromophore]

I got lost about 20 minutes ago. But here I am.

[OMB]

The T5's are winning...and they are getting so wide I won't be able to keep them off the T5 sidelight for long. I was in the closet tending and time got away from me fast.
Funny how that happens, I like it in there. Just makes me feel good tending to my girls. :D
Gotta take some pics...

I forgot...Mama? Is that actually UNDER lighting, or side lighting? I would gain a couple inches of grow width if I dropped the side light under the canopy, that would help.
My Mother plant seems to be doing better, but I think it needs some serious pruning. Darn thing is thick and dense. Dug into the middle and it's a jungle in there!
I'm pretty sure that's where the ladybug Army Queen lives. ;)

[Shovelhandle]

I use metal screen to keep the plants from growing into the side lights (T5). It's the same pieces of screen I use to keep our cats out of the window boxes when we plant seeds in the spring. It's found in the hardware store. Cheap. It has like 1/2" 'holes' and it is easily cut. I bend the edge and just hang it on the lamps.

[OMB]

Here's a couple pics from 11/29 when I put a pair under the T5's and the HPS. I will add a current pic of them when they wakeup.

[OMB]

Some pics I just took a few minutes ago. The T5HO pair are LST'd, the HPS pair are not. Looking good so far, you can see my lady Bugs on patrol. :thumbsup:

296761296762296763296764296765296766

[catbuds]

Is it my eyes, or are the T5 buds a tad bigger? I love T5's! :) :) :)

[OMB]

They are Mama....the buds are bigger.. Plants are roughly the same size, though the T5 plants are a bit thicker. Interesting little experiment, but what if I uppped the HPS to equal Watts?
I'm thinking about it for the next round. I'm not about quantity though, it's all about quality to me. This is just for my meds and I'm looking for that "calming" effect as well as for low back issues.
Relaxed...mind slowed down....no "pressure"...that's the ticket. :stoned:

[catbuds]

Hey, me too on the back pain. Was in an accident, spinal injury, neck, lower back & broke 3 ribs loose from my spine, mid back. Lots of nerve damage. Have insomnia too, so I smoke to sleep at night. Don't get me wrong. I've always been a pot head, but now I need it. Have several health issues that would also qualify me for mmj too, arthritis, etc, but back & sleep are #1.
-- I really like my T5's. I have a 400watt hps somewhere in a box in the attic. Overkill for my closet. But I may just stick with T5's in a SOG. Indoors is secondary to my outdoor grow, so its quality over quanity here too. My entire outdoor crop was ripped this past summer though.
-- Your girls are looking good, both lights! :) :) :)

[Chromophore]

Looking good OMB. How close are you able to get your plants to the T5's without light/heat damage? They appear to be much closer than those under the HPS. I'm noticing light damage on the upper leaves of my flowering girls under 600w HPS. I used T5 HO bulbs to grow up the plants I'm currently flowering, and they loved it. Unfortunately they're mounted into a grow tent and the plants outgrew the tent after a month. Also difficult to control temp in there. But they do seem more efficient and the Phillips ballast and 4 ft bulbs I use have been in operation over 5 years growing all sorts of stuff and I have yet to lose a single tube! I'm really interested in whether you find a quality difference with this, as I am growing for a patient with Lupus and chronic back/joint pain.

[OMB]

Hey Chromophore, I get the lights down to 6 inches from the tops or less. I have a fan blowing directly down the "gap" between the tops and bulbs, really helps.
Same with the HPS. I could bring that 150 down to 12 inches from the tops with my inlet fan hitting the gap.
Way cooler to run the T5's...but when summer hits I'm going to have cooling issues regardless.

[OMB]

The T5's are winning....no question about it. More buds sites and they are further along too. They are all "Happy", but the T5's are winning. We will see as we go, but it's clear we have a leader.

[catbuds]

Yea! Go T5's! Loving me some T5's! I'll be growing sm plants from now on because of age, back & other health issues. Just can't hoss around the big momas anymore. I'll probably gift my HPS to a young friend who wants to learn how to grow, I don't want it. I'm staying with my T5's with supplemental cfls. Hoping to get a bank of 8 this summer for flowering & keep the 6 bank for veg. I'll still have big momas outside. Gotta have that hefty outdoor grow every year, but even those will veg under T5's till they're too big for the rabbits & groundhogs to want to munch. Just need a little deer repellent & THIEF DETERRENT! Miss my big sweet rot. All she wanted to do was cuddle, but those up to no good would take one look at her (all 120 lbs) & go the other way. Never had a thieft the whole 13yrs of her life. I loved her because she was sweet, gentle & loving. Rest in peace my sweet Sadie. You will never be forgotten. :(

[OMB]

I'm sorry to hear about your Sadie dog Mama....I know the feeling. I lost my Rocky dog,(Golden Retriever) about a year ago to Congestive heart failure...Miss my Rocky dog.
I do have a "new" dog though, here name is Sadie! How about that? Spaz of a Lab with separation anxiety issues. I don't have an unchewed piece of wood furniture in the house.
Not too mention the area rugs, (corners), the molding to the Sheetrock, the hardwood step into the Dining room, and now Christmas ornaments...Damn dog. :wtf:
The T5's....are winning! I need to get a few more pics up, they went 12/12 on 11/29 as I recall. Looking very Happy at the moment, leaves pointing up.
I need to start giving them something...they got nothing in Veg, and I have been using Terra Flores 2-2-4 every few day's since they went 12/12.
What am I not giving them? Remember, I'm still new! Lol

[catbuds]

I'm organic all the way, used to mix EVERYTHING from scratch. Too hard on the back now a days, but when I found fox farms products, I fell head over heals in love! Every trace element you could want is in those wonderful organics. Listed on the bottle are the ingredients, but you need to know (or google) the elements in those ingredients to know they are there. You might want to add a tablespoon per gal of molasses every now & then for energy, & one dose of growth nutes before you go to a bloom food. You can still do that even if you've changed to 12/12. I sometimes do that anyway, just because this is when they really expend more energy, blooming! I know you'll enjoy watching the buds form & grow. Its kinda like watching an aquarium. I can do it for hours! Probably why I never get bugs indoors. I scare them away! Haha!
-- I got a new dog too. 11 lbs of jack ass Russell's. ... & listen to this, separation anxiety disorder! Since I can't bend over well or often, he's in his crate when I sleep or leave. Cant be helped. His a smooth coated tiny, the short legged variety. He'll be 8 on my birthday, & still way too much energy, & damned it, he won't share! I have a 38 lb maincoon cat who keeps him in his place with just a look. They'll sleep together, but when Tigger gives him 'the eye', he'll go lay down! This will make you laugh your ass off. This past summer I had a buzzard in the yard. I didn't see it till I let Tito out & he ran over to challange it. That buzzard bent its head down, spread its wings & ran toward Tito. He stopped in his tracks, SCREAMED, turned & ran to me & has never challanged anything again. Took the wind out of his sails, that's for sure. He's not neutered, but that buzzard robbed him of his puppy dog man hood! I love Goldens. They're so dovoted. I love they way they look into you eyes & make you know they love you. They feel good to hug too! I like big teddy bear dogs. My Sadie loved cats. She kiss & lick as long as they'd let her. One day she was nudging my cats belly & her stubby tail was flying in circles. I wanted to see why she was so happy with the cats belly. I felt around, & my god! She was pregnant! Sadie was a great mother, had even nursed orphaned squirrels & kittens. She was so protective of Polly the whole time she was pregnant & would stay with the kittens when Polly took a break. She was special. They'll never be another one like her. She was 13 when she died. Thats old for a rot, but she didn't die a natural death. Someone fractured her skull so they could rob me. I wish them a slow & very painful death. :(

[OMB]

Thanks Mama! I will be graduating to Fox Farms when I repot the baby girls. I guess I need "Blackstrap" Molasses? Or will any work?
Maybe some "Big Bloom" too?
Wow!...a 38lb cat? Now THATS a cat. Karma will get those thieves Mama, count on it. Golden Retrievers are wonderful dogs.My Rocky came to me off the Craigslist. He was supposedly 5 when I got him, poor dog lived in an Apt. with a bipolar father and Autistic son. Poor dog didn't know if you were going to hit him or pet him. He was scared of his waterbowl too....maybe he was tormented when he tried to drink...I don't know.
He got over it after about a year, but I alway's wondered what happened to him that caused that. I had him about 5 years...he suddenly collapsed while playing fetch, ( he lived to chase balls.....I miss that) and I took him to the Vet. Had him on some Great meds, (spendy) that gave him 6 more months of quality life with me, but there wasn't much that could be done.
One of the hardest day's of my life was taking him in to put him down. I just couldn't let him suffer anymore. Jeez...I'm tearing up just thinking about it.
296799

[OMB]

The T5HO Girls are looking great at 3 weeks in. The HPS Girls are not as full, or as developed. I didn't tie down the HPS one's because I don't really have the room to spread them open at that end of my Cabinet. I don't think it would have mattered, but again, we are putting 372 watts against 150. The T5's have almost twice the lumens and the difference is showing.
12/12 on 11/29 The T5 girls are the 3rd and 4th pics. The HPS 1st and 2nd....but I think it's pretty obvious. :)

296844296843296842296841

[Chromophore]

It would be cool to do this experiment setting up both lighting systems so that their output is equivalent in terms of PAR content. Then we could see differences in efficiency quite clearly. Shovelhandle stated that T5's produce more useable light if you mix bulb temps properly, and I'm guessing you could get better performance per watt with the t5s, but a direct comparison would be useful.

[Shovelhandle]

watt for watt I would expect the HPS to outgrow the T5HO as the lumen ration is abut 20% better. However, the plants use certain spectrum of light so it would be good to see the comparison. As far as LED, I still see most if not all commercial and academic greenhouses using HID lighting for the plants still. I expect that someday that will change.

[Chromophore]

Shovel is it true than Cannabis utilizes red wavelengths preferentially during flowering? I keep reading that HPS is best for budding because of its red and yellow output. I would love to see a well controlled set of experiments that test all of these things. Or better yet, maybe I should quit yakking and do it myself.

[OMB]

It's about to get really unfair...Lol.... I'm picking up another 4 bulb 4 foot T5HO for a sidelight. It will add another 20K Lumen to the mix. 55,000 Lumen, 588 total watts for 2 girls.
I will use the 2 foot T5 for underlighting, just because Mama Catbuds said so. ;)

[catbuds]

Whoo, wait a min there baby. Moma uses CFL's for side lighting. Specifically the GE REVEAL 20 watters. CFL's put out a little more uv than other fluorescents. 20watts puts out 1200 lumens, & the REVEALS are very warm at 2500K. Mixing the two make the plants happy! Sometimes I run a 4', 2 tube shoplight up the middle between 2 rows of plants; laying on its back as underlighting, but that takes a lot of space. Now I'll only be using cfl's as supplement. At 2500K, I think reveal cfls help beef up the smaller lower buds more than straight tube flourescent underlighting. A lot of lumens in a sm packagefrom these little guys. :) :) :)

[catbuds]

You know, you could sidelight one side with the t5s & the other with a few cfls for a comparison. That would be interesting. If I have two rows of plants, I underlight between the rows where they would otherwise be shaded, but because I keep short plants, it actually lights the sides between the rows. Google 'parabolic plant growth' sometime. Think you'll find it interesting. I prune the lower part of my plants. Then I prune out the smaller branches that wouldn't produce much. That way, all the side/underlighting really gets put to use & the plants energies can focus on making the remaining buds plumper. I like it when all those prunings are big enough to clone. :) I like cloning. Saves so much time.
-- I worked on my cabinet a little today. What ever I could get done that didn't require going outside & playing with electric in the rain. I was gluing & screwing a sawmill slat to the ceiling to attach the lights to. And I dropped the damned board right on my head, glue in my hair, screw hole in my scalp. You know, sometimes I really need a helper. Then I could drop boards on somebody else's head! I would have been fine, but my damned nose started running. I had to wipe it, but I let go with the wrong hand! That gorilla wood glue was hell getting out of my hair, so if the screws don't hold, that glue surely will! You know, now that I think about it. I had the drill in one hand, & wipped my nose with the other... humm................. :) :) :) ouch!

[catbuds]

I went way back & looked at your pics. I just noticed something.... Mine are stacked on books too! Hahaha! :)

[OMB]

Hahaha...whatever is handy! Those are auto manuals for cars I don't own anymore Mama catbuds, gotta make use of stuff I got lying around. :)
Hmmmm....so use the CFL's on the sides? I think maybe the HPS plants are the ones that need the help though...Lol There's a thought, I should add CFL's to them to make it more "even".
Those girls sure are thirsty! About a quart a day for each of the 4. I have been giving them H2O and Terra Flores 2-2-4 every 3rd day. They seem to be doing well, though I will change things up in the next round. FF Oceanic soil will be my media of choice, gotta get off the Black Hills Gold fungus Gnat crap....Rookie!

[catbuds]

Ahhhh, the fungus gnats! That's what happens when soil is packaged too wet & stored improperly. Probably not sterilized/pasteurized well either. Fox farm products are quality. Never had or heard of that problem with them. Just don't use ocean forest untill plants are no longer in seedling stage, use happy frog (gentle enough to start seeds in) untill they're in rapid veg growth, then transplant to ocean forest. I don't use nutes untill the plants show signs they need them. These soils are very well ballanced. Big Bloom occasionally, light on the nutes. It was good timing for me to find a store where fox farms is always available, since I can't turn a compost heap anymore. But I Do want another earthworm farm. The ones you can buy now require very little labor! :) :) :)

[OMB]

What are Earthworm castings anyway? Poop?? I'm confused about 'nutes too...I thought things like my Terra Flores or Big Bloom were 'nutes? Damn, for a guy who has done a lot of reading, I don't seem to know some of the basics!
Good thing they are "weeds". Lol

[Chromophore]

Fungus gnats. I had them pop up a few weeks ago when I was overwatering. I adjusted my watering routine and installed blue sticky cards at the rim of each pot. Now the only gnats I see are the ones stuck to the cards. I've heard people complain about FFof having gnats, but those things are everywhere. If conditions are right they will appear no matter what kind of soil you use. Earthworm castings are indeed poop! The worm's gut is filled with bacteria that break down organics in the soil. The poop is loaded with bio-available stuff. Assuming I hinted strongly enough, I may be getting a worm-casting factory for Christmas! If not, I'm going to build one.

[catbuds]

Chromophore, good luck on your xmas gift. Leaving catalogs lying around open to the earthworm farm pics might work! Yep! Earthworm poop is is awesome shit, literally!
-- Big Bloom is a nute, just not your typical high npk heavy feeding. Minerals, bio-nutes, trace elements in wide diversity, but not over powering. Its almost more of a 'tonic' than anything. ALWAYS use it at transplanting. Its a great root booster too! I love the stuff. It really promotes over all plant health. They should change the name to Big Bloom & Plant Tonic to do it justice. I dilute 1/2 throughout growth, then recomended strength for bloom
-- Chromophore, you work in a lab with plants. Read the organic ingredients of Big Bloom, then look into the minerals & different hormones naturally occurring in those organics & get back to us with what you find. I think everyone following this thread will go to this product as a very happy customer. :) :) :)

[Chromophore]

Big Bloom is essentially worm castings, bat guano, seabird guano, kelp, and some phosphorous and potassium salts. The composition of guano and worm castings is very complex, but both contain a very complete array of trace minerals eg, molybdenum, copper, etc. But there are some differences. Guano can be very high in nitrogen, which castings typically are not. This is because bats and birds eat insects, which are basically protein nuggets. Digestion of protein yields nitrogen. But from a chemical point of view, what is remarkable about these organic nutrient sources, as opposed to synthetics like Miracle Gro, is that the nitrogen is in the form of uric salts, nitrate salts, as well as ammonium oxalate. These are superior forms of nitrogen to plain ammonium hydroxide (the form often used in fertilizers). Why? The answer is interesting.

Plant roots take up minerals and other nutrients one molecule at a time. And most of the molecules being absorbed are in a form where they carry an electric charge, negative or positive. Such a species of molecule is termed an ion. For example, ammonium ion is NH4-, water liberates H+ and OH-, Nitrate is NO2-, Sulfate is SO4-, etc. But at the level of the root cell membranes that do the absorbing, each type of ion exists within a "pecking order" so to speak. Some ions will flow in rapidly, AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS. This is critical. Miracle Gro knows this, and they also know that ammonium ion is taken up faster and more efficiently than any other. So they load the fertilizer with ammonium ion. The result of this is a very rapid and noticeable greening and growth spurt. But this is akin to shooting heroin as opposed to drinking poppy tea. There is a price to pay for this trick. Ammonium ion is so robust at the root level that it precludes absorption of other very important ions, Ca+, Mn+, even H+ which is essential for proper metabolism. So they jam a whole bunch of that in there too, in forms that are taken up rapidly. So you are basically pumping the plant up with the equivalent of super Human Growth Hormone mixed with steroids and some clean Bolivian flake for good measure. In the end you will have a green monster, but it may lack the ability to fight disease, repair wounds, properly form fruit, and on and on. Doesn't matter if its a zinnia in a flower pot I guess, but for agriculture it's terrible.

The ionic forms of N,P,K and all the others found in castings and guano are a perfect balance for proper, orderly and timely uptake. Depending on what the worms are fed you can have a very rich smorgasbord of ionic species and trace elements. There are also many other organic molecules important for plants (humins, fulvins, ulmins, fatty acids, glomalins, and many many others. Many of these compounds are formed in the guts of birds, bats and worms as they digest. I have used Big Bloom for years with the Salvia species I study, and there is no question that it is a superior fertilizer for constant feeding. Two years ago I started growing all of my Salvia in Ocean Forest and fertilize only with Big Bloom. The plants have dramatically improved in health and trichome production (Salvia has trichomes similar to Cannabis and these are filled with essential oils and aromatic terpenes).

I'm not trying to be a shill for Foxfarm, as I'm sure there are many other brand nutrients out there with similar properties. But in my experience, both as a biochemist and as a grower, organic ferts and soil mixtures based on worm castings and guano are the only way to go. And we haven't even discussed the effects on the aroma and taste of the bud. Save that one for later.

[catbuds]

AH YES!!!! aroma & flavor! Organics effect terpinoids in ways chem nutes miss by a long shot! But you missed my FAVOURITE part of Big Bloom! Sea birds eat fish. Fish & their by products have gentle, natural growth & other hormones that effect plants in a healthy & positive way. Sea kelp too, in addition to all the other wonderful properties it posesses. (You know, native americans were really showing their smarts when they would drop a minnow or two into their planting holes)! I knew if I put you on the spot you pump out the info! Gets the point across when info comes from more than just one person. I can't help but sing the praises of a product I love this much. It would be so awesome if Fox Farms were to become one of our sponsers here, dontcha think? :) :) :)~~~ thanks Chromophore! ;)

[Chromophore]

I'm glad you mentioned the fish, because I honestly have never understood what the plants were deriving from them. I would like to know more about this. I have tried fish emulsion fertilizers in my garden but my cats begin earnest excavations and make a huge mess of things. I also wonder what exactly is in the kelp. Whatever it is, FF has figured out the right formulation. And I should point out that my little essay above was full of gross generalities. Different plants have different requirements and metabolic tendencies, but the points concerning ionic form and ion-based blockage is really important. That's why I cringe when I see first time growers opting for grocery store potting soil and Miracle-Gro. JUST SAY NO.:stoned:

[Chromophore]

Also my bad, Ammonium ion is NH4+, nitrate is more properly NO3-, and sulfate is SO42- . Catbuds I think you know that and you didn't call me out on it!:thumbsup:

[catbuds]

Also my bad, Ammonium ion is NH4+, nitrate is more properly NO3-, and sulfate is SO42- . Catbuds I think you know that and you didn't call me out on it!:thumbsup:

I didn't even notice. Anything remotely reassembling math, I memorized just long enough to ace my mid-terms! LOL! Straight up hort wasn't quite as technical with the numbers, some of the required botany was though. Those classes stressed me out. I was scared to death they would ruin my perfect GPA, but no. They just gave me an Ulcer instead! Things like trig & higher math? Yeah, I aced it back then. Must have only stored that stuff in my short term memory, as soon as I was out of college, I kicked the numbers right out of my head! Now a days I have to use my fingers for multiplication! Ha! Sad but true.
-- Grocery store soil? Might as well plant it in the toilet! MG or any monsanto product or their modified genetics can send me into a very LONG rant. Highly paid advertising has completely brain washed the public. I honestly think you could sell vomit if it was pushed by the big advertisers. People are becoming more like cattle everyday. You can herd them up & lead them anywhere. No wonder we have such asses in political offices. That's another rant, & I've already had it. ~~~ PEACE!~~~

[Chromophore]

OMB forgive us for threadjacking, but Catbuds has a way of making me laugh and want to talk shop. I would only argue that humans acting like cattle is nothing new. The techniques for taking advantage of that property have simply become more sophisticated. But enough of that. I know it sounds snobbish, but I will never back down from pushing organic soil and nutrients, in ANY type of growing.

[OMB]

No worries Chromophore, it's all good!....and I'm not one of the "Cattle" types myself, I dance to my own beat. ;) I tend to want to divert from the "masses", it's not my cup of Tea to be a Conformist.
You guy's chat away, it's all good info my friends. :thumbsup:

[catbuds]

OMB, I just noticed no one answered your question on molasses! I'm sorry. Any molasses is good as long as its low sulphur. Most (but not all) molasses that contain sulphur will be labled as sulphured molasses. I used to use blackstrap in puppy & kitten formulas, but I don't remember if it contained sulphur. I'd say probably not, since it never made them gassy, but read the lable to make sure. Brand names vary according to locality. When I was a kid, I used to stir blackstrap into milk just like hersheys syrup. Shit was good with apple pie! Ohh, & buttered biscuits & jelly! Shit. Now I'm hungry! LOL! :) :) :)

[Shovelhandle]

I use animal feed grade molasses. It contains no Sulfur.

[OMB]

Thanks Shovelhandle! How much should I use per gallon of H20?...and how often? All they have gotten is that Terra Flores 2-2-4 after they go 12/12.

[Shovelhandle]

I can't say what you should use. somewhere between a teaspoon and two tablespoons per gallon. I go about the middle of that, 1 tablespoon / gallon. I use molasses with the nutrients only, Feed-Water-Water.

[OMB]

The T5 girls are clearly pulling away from the HPS....I added a couple CFL's to the HPS girls to help them out, it was a "No contest" at this point.
The T5 girls have more nodes, bigger flowers and are fuller...but it ain't over yet, and I win either way.
New pics later when they "wakeup".

[Chromophore]

OMB I gave up trying to measure the molasses. It was just too sticky and uncooperative. Now I just pour some in until I figure I've got about 2 tbsp/gallon. If it looks like tea after mixing, I figure I'm good. I use the Brer Rabbit unsulphered, cause that's all that's available in my remote neck of the woods. Let's see some pics of your girls.

[OMB]

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Here's a couple pics I took a few minutes ago. The HPS plants are looking much better after tying and adding the CFL's. Still behind of course, but looking better.

[catbuds]

Looking good! CFL's are handy little lights, high lumens in a sm package, & plants love the mixed spectrum. Glad you got them. You will be too when you c what they do! ;)
-- BUT..... What the hell are u doing online CHRISTMAS EVE! Go PARTY !!!! ;) ;) ;)

[catbuds]

OMG! I just zoomed in & there's a humungus difference! T5s definitely do not disapoint! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
-- MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!! :)

[OMB]

Looking good! CFL's are handy little lights, high lumens in a sm package, & plants love the mixed spectrum. Glad you got them. You will be too when you c what they do! ;)
-- BUT..... What the hell are u doing online CHRISTMAS EVE! Go PARTY !!!! ;) ;) ;)

Hahaha....Not much of a partier Mama, kind of a homebody. Crowds make me agitated. Lol
Merry Christmas!!

[catbuds]

I can party with a crowd for about an hr. After that, I wanta go home. If not, I just get bitchy! ; (

LOL! ~~~~~ PEACE!~~~~~

[Chromophore]

Hmm. Very nice indeed OMB and the T5s are impressive. This is really making me think that I should mount my T5s as side lighting in my bud room. I have two 4' x 4 bulb T5 HO ballasts and lots of bulbs just sitting doing nothing. Adding thos T5s would really help with the outer perimeter of my plants.

[Chromophore]

Also,(and this is a general statement, not directed at you OMB) when photographing these scenes, people should check their cameras for "white balance" controls. Most have them now, even cheapos. This allows you to compensate for the hard color cast that these lights give off. HPS can be corrected with the "tungsten" setting, and MH and CFL can be corrected with the "flourescent" or even "shadow" setting if you have one. I do the correction on my computer using Adobe Lightroom. But even free image editing software usually has white balance correction.

[OMB]

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Couple more pics....I should just pull them out for the pics, but it's too late... About 27 day's in now. Check the HPS pair in the last pic....Kinda spindly. :wtf: Lol

[catbuds]

I've meant to ask u this before, we need to compare lumens to lumens. Don't forget to add in the extra lumens from any side lighting. Now I've got to go back & check out your latest pics! :)

--Geeze! What a difference! ;)

[crystaliscious]

I used my old aquarium water as the only thing to water plants with for years…..never found anything better available commercially….

[catbuds]

Me too, when I have fish. Not just for nutes, but all sorts of hormones, those for growth, & some that increase feminity! Its great stuff! ;) ;) ;)

[tlranger]

Worked in the water business for awhile, amazed and frightened by all the additives used to make it meet an arbitrary state standard. That's why I catch roof runoff in horse tank, that has gold fish and limestone rock.

Keep up the good work! Quite the experiment. Are you also trying to compare energy costs?

[crystaliscious]

Good Point Tlranger - the chemicals used in most aquaponics are crazy! I have always kept several tanks- exotic fish, simple little goldfish and a huge tank for growing bog plants. I started reading about aeroponics a few months ago and thought it was funny they were putting the fish in with the plants- I have grown all kinds of plants in my aquariums with the fish and have almost 100% success rate with cuttings in aquariums - when the fish nibble at the roots it's time to plant em!
;)

[OMB]

I've meant to ask u this before, we need to compare lumens to lumens. Don't forget to add in the extra lumens from any side lighting. Now I've got to go back & check out your latest pics! :)

--Geeze! What a difference! ;)

The T5's are at almost 35,000 Lumen Mama. 6 bulb 4 foot is 30,000, plus the little 2 foot 2 bulb at almost 5000 lumen.
The HPS is about 15-18,000 Lumen (I think)...So it was not a fair comparison as far as Lumens. I did ad another 3220 Lumen with the CFL sidelights to the HPS, but I don't see them catching up anytime soon.
I may have to Get all "T5" on 'em! ;)

[OMB]

Fish in the Hydro? Cool... Never heard of anyone doing that, what a great idea! :thumbsup:

[Chromophore]

As I said earlier, we really need to do this experiment with equal lumens and equivalent lighting structure (side lighting, etc). But I am really intrigued with how the T5s are performing here. Couple of questions OMB...Are you confident that the group of plants here are genetically stable? By that I mean are you confident you are not seeing phenotypic variance unrelated to lighting? I ask this because the 4 girls I am flowering are supposedly seed from a single cross, but one of them has a distinctly different growth habit, ie lankier, longer internode distance, and overall "thinner" appearance. Also, are you using a single temperature of bulb in your T5, or are you mixing kelvins, and if so, what is your mixture? Apologies if you've already covered this earlier in the thread.

[OMB]

Hey Cromophore, The 6 bulb 4 foot light has four 2700K bulbs and two 6500K bulbs. The two foot 2 bulb sidelight is 6500K, so I am mixing spectrums.
The 4 plants are all clones from the same original Mother, but a couple of them may be "clones of clones", I don't recall exactly. Some do seem to "stretch" more than other's, but none are very tall. ( I LST them to prevent that, but it's just a stumpy strain I guess). The ones under the HPS are the tallest I have grown, besides mama plant. She is a Bush, I really need to pull her out and take a pic...and do some pruning!

Forgot to add....the internodes are much closer together on the T5 girls, it shows in a couple of my crappy pics. I really need to take better pics....I have the camera and ability, but it's always late and the effort lacks as a result. Lol

[OMB]

Few more shots from a couple day's ago. Mama even got out of the cabinet for a few minutes. That bush is headed for Flower, I am going to make a new Mama.

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[OMB]

Forgot to mention this is 29 days into 12/12...and the Mama plant is almost 4 months from clone. She is well tied, can't see it, but lots of string and Bamboo skewers
spreading her open. She has just gotten too wide for my space, not to mention too tall for my Veg box. I have to keep the light high and it's not convenient to raise all the babies in Veg to compensate.

[catbuds]

Ah Ranger. I worked in the water industry for a while too! Sounds like you may have worked the water treatment end, while I worked the other end. I worked for water resources international. We made filtration systems & RO units. While water treatment plants were busy pumping chems into the water, we were busy filtering it back out! Haha!
-- I've taken the little rockwool cubes in the little baskets & hung them along the back rim of my aquariums (where the bubbles rise from the air stones) with clones in them. Rooted faster than any other way I've done it. That was due to the hormones in the tank water. The natural nutes kept them healthy, but its the hormones that encourage the rooting. :)

[Chromophore]

You water people may find this interesting, though not unexpected. I started keep track of the pH of my tap water a few weeks ago. Here are the values, taken every other day: 6.3, 5.8, 5.5, 6.5, 6.5, 5.5, 5.2, 6.2
That's some fairly large jumps and in a completely erratic, random manner. It's true that outside temps have fluctuated a lot over that period, and water temp will affect pH, but that's an alarming variance in pH if you ask me. I'm really starting to hate my tap water.

[catbuds]

That's municipal water for you. I can't stand clorox, so I hate even turning on the tap where its city water. But there's hundreds of nasties they can pump into the water. After you told me where your water came from (disolved solids), I knew they were putting some heavy duty chems in it. I wouldn't even bathe my dog in that. Please tell me you don't drink that shit. I hate your water & I haven't even seen it! Don't get me wrong though. The minerals aren't what bother me. Its those nasty chemicals they add to it. I don't know what other pollutants would be in you untreated water, that varies by area, but minerals are needed, though they taste bad & most leave stains. You might want to consider a bottled water delivery service.
-- Ranger, he posted about where his water comes from early in this thread. Re-read that & tell him what you think.
--I'd feel better if you at least tell me you don't drink that slury!:mad:

[tlranger]

I was in distribution, getting the treated water to the house, water lines, meters and such.

Want a scare, find out about a burn out. Lay a new line and then sterilize it, then flush the chems out. Right, they go thru the whole system, every leak, every repair an chance for a problem. So chems required by state to make safe(try to kill everything) in the water you drink and bath in(you absorb more thru skin than anywhere). I was in charge so you try to be careful, but keeping up with your labors and contractors is tough. Then there's pvc, and chlorine-like it's the good stuff.:wtf:

Here we filter all, double filter drinking and cooking, distilled for babies and baby plants and clones, rain water(not acid here) but I still like my limestone for the ladies(buffers ph).:jointsmile:

[catbuds]

You water people may find this interesting, though not unexpected. I started keep track of the pH of my tap water a few weeks ago. Here are the values, taken every other day: 6.3, 5.8, 5.5, 6.5, 6.5, 5.5, 5.2, 6.2
That's some fairly large jumps and in a completely erratic, random manner. It's true that outside temps have fluctuated a lot over that period, and water temp will affect pH, but that's an alarming variance in pH if you ask me. I'm really starting to hate my tap water.

-- See Rangers post, #73, this thread. That would be a good way to go for your plants. The fish are a bonus for trace elements, a little nutes, growth & sex hormones. Plain ole gold fish. Can be found around here @ $1.00 a doz. Freezing doesn't hurt them, but don't have them on the sunny side of the house in the summer. Theyre a cold water fish. You can't get cheaper or more natural, & fish are fun! You can find limestone at most landscape nurseries. Look for them no smaller than two fists put together. And I still don't want you to drink your damned tap water! I'm serious!
-- OMB, I'm sorry, but I don't want you to drink Chromophores tap water either! LMAO! I thought we were on Chroms thread, sorry we keep 'jacking' you! But do take note, water quality should be important to everyone. :) :) :)

[OMB]

Couple more pics at 4 weeks and 1 day in. The T5's are still winning, but the HPS is filling in. The HPS plants were spread open a bit today...I was going to let them just be natural, but i tied them down/open a bit. The added couple CFL sidelights are helping a bit.

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[catbuds]

What a hell of a difference! Just lovin' me some T5's! Now imagine, get a bunch of bottle lamp kits @ walmarts, around $3.00 ea (the cord comes out the side on the bottle lamp kits, so no holes for wire need be drilled). You can use bottles, vases, but I use inverted clay pots. Heavy enough to be tip proof. Now, under the T5's, alternate plant, cfl, plant, cfl etc. Get the picture? Try it this way & I bet you throw that hps out the window! Or you could alternate cfl/plant under the hps the same way, but I'm liking the T5's too much! ;)

[OMB]

I do love the T5's too Mama! It's so easy with my strain to make those short little uniform bushes of cola's, and they stay nice and even when I cinch down the strings! Lol
The Stem's of the two T5 plants are like banzai tree's....thick, and branch within an inch. Crazy little bushes, hopefully I won't have any issues and it's quality smoke.

[Chromophore]

Looking good OMB. Your flowers and mine are almost identical in development right now. But I have to look up to see mine, you have to bend over! I love this system you have going here with the T5's. I'm thinking I may install mine along the walls in my bud room for side lighting. This would bring my total wattage to 1000. Your setup would seem to be far more efficient, though I guess watt per gram product is the real measure of that. Also are those paper pulp pots? We use them in the greenhouse for certain things but I never thought of using them for my Cannabis grow. How do you like them?

[OMB]

Yep....gotta bend over for these little Girls. The 2 foot T5 sidelight seems to be helping, but I have no hard evidence of that. The HPS girls are filling in now too. The CFL sidelights I added must be helping, thanks mama catbuds!
They are indeed paper or peat pots. Cheap, and seemed like a good idea... no problems that I'm aware of with them so far. At this point I'm just trying to get through the whole process with a decent product. There will be lot's of "Tweaking" I'm sure, but right now it's the KISS principal.
My total wattage for the T5 girls is still 372. The HPS girls are about 200 total with the CFL's. It's fun to watch, but I need to learn patience, that's for sure.
Thanks for the kind words Chromophore.

[OMB]

Here's an interesting mystery...The T5HO girls are showing a lot of clorosis. The HPS light Girls are not. Same water and nute schedule, same lighting, only difference is type of Lighting....Any guesses why? I sure don't know.
They started 12/12 one day apart....Sorry about pic #3. :stoned: I had to tilt my head to look at it!

Side by side...

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and the rest...

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[catbuds]

Plumper plants, denser buds require more nutes. But if you're within 2 wks of harvest, you don't want to feed or you'll taste it in your buds. Check your trichs closely. If you think you have 3 or more wks to go, give a feeding. The most yellow leaves will fall anyway. This happens because the buds are pulling energy from the leaves. Its time for molasses if you haven't already. If the sunleaves fall at this point, its not a big geal. Remember, the calyx goes through photosynthesis like a leaf, hence the green from the chlorophyll. I think I'd go ahead & give a bloom feeding & a shot of molasses. The pics are too sm on this cell phone for me to be able to see the trichromes, but I think your far enough from harvest to give at least 2 more feedings. Basically, they are just farther ahead of the hps because of more lumens, so just remember, more light, more plant bulk, means there's more need for nutes. Do you have anything to view your trichs with? Its time to start watching. :) :) :)

[OMB]

Thanks Catbuds, they are 4 weeks and 2 days into 12/12 so I have time yet. They first plants did the same thing so I wasn't too worried about it. I left the fans alone this time though. I was cutting them off the first time around...:(
I have given them Canna Flora 2-2-4 with molasses mixed in. The Canna since they went to flower and the molasses started about a week ago.
Just odd how it's only the 2 plants under the T5's, not the two under the HPS...Spectrum? Heat? The 4 foot 6 bulb has 2, 6500k and 4, 2700k bulbs with 24' 6500k sidelight.
150 Watt HPS with a couple 26W? CFL's....No Clorosis.

[catbuds]

Its really not odd at all. The fact that there's more bulk to both the plants & buds just means they require more nutes than the hps plants. Compare it to a pregnant woman. Her body is programmed to first supply the baby with nutrition. The buds are the plants babies. Do you have any veg nutes left? If you do, add just a couple of drops (I do mean just a couple) to your bloom nutes & molasses the next time you water. But, new daddy, don't fret too much if you loose the yellowed sunleaves! The calyx & bud leaf will photosynthize & produce energy for the buds. & DO start keeping an eye on trichromes. Dont be surprised if the T5's ripen before the hps. BTW, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

There's no clorosis with the hps yet because they aren't using the nutes up as fast since they aren't as dense or developed as the T5's.

[Shovelhandle]

Just like catbuds said...twice. If you had a plant in the corner with less light it may very well never see senescense (leaves changing color fro old age). I've had some grows throw it's fan leaves starting off early in bloom cycle and other grows where they never did loose it's fan leaves. Loosing the leaves later in bloom is not a bad thing. If your plant is loosing lots of leaves early on it's probably hungry.

[tlranger]

Happy New year to all!! Now pass that thing.

[OMB]

Thanks all. Really though, what had me wondering was the fact the Clorosis was well started earlier in development than the HPS plants are at now.
In other words, I had visible Clorosis in the T5 plants prior to the development stage the HPS plants are at right now....with no sign of any developing Clorosis.
You will have to forgive me....I tend to get hung up on "why's" sometimes. I'm not trying to beat it to death, I just want to understand it.
In my mind, if the HPS plants end up never exhibiting that kind of Clorosis it tends to point towards an effect of the lighting. Since the HPS light (and the 2 CFL sidelights) are in the 5K and above spectrum, it leads me to believe, (at this point anyway) that there is a correlation there.
...or maybe I should just STFU and figure it out. Then I will know. ;)

[Chromophore]

Well, I do know that red light tends to be "better" for flowering. But the reasons behind this still puzzle me. It is true that Cannabis uses red light to time itself, but I don't understand what the connection to chlorosis might be. One thing to consider with all of this, is that often it isn't enough to just know wattages, lumens, etc. What's really critical is PAR (Photosynthetically Active Region). I use a PAR meter in the lab, but haven't used it yet for my home grow. PAR measures the intensity of light in the relevant wavelengths, and ignores others ( for example, green). It is often surprising to discover that what appears to be a very bright light source may have fairly low PAR levels. This is the measurement that would be really useful in comparing your setups. Also temperature of the soil/water can affect nutrient absorption. Colder temps tend to inhibit uptake of minerals, especially phosphorus. You might want to stick a thermometer down in the pots and see if there's a difference. OR, we could both just STFU and let the plants do there thing.:D

[tlranger]

Just my :twocents: but thinking maybe we should think in terms of the seasonal patterns where the strain your working with are like.
Like: Fall light because of the angle it hits atmosphere, changes it color a little. Mid-summer(veg) more straight in, more uv and blue.
Time length varies of course, as does temp, and maybe moisture. I think we can optimize everything but if we get to far off base, mother nature will pick us off.

Of course maybe I'm all wet, and global warming and the hole in the ozone layer are good things.

[giggletwig]

Hi guys! Catbuds pointed me over to this thread and I'm glad I'm reading it. Some really nice info, Chromophore and OMB. And makes me glad I chose T5 HO's when I started to grow last year. Plants have done really well under them and I think they're the way to go for me. I'm all for learning more about lighting and feeding our little friends. (Little - well I have some large plants this time 'round, so maybe I shouldn't say little....)

Peace and Happy New Year.

[Chromophore]

yeah giggle I'm in my first flowering and I let things go a bit too long before putting them in 12/12. I now have plants with 6' tops. Oops.

[giggletwig]

Yeah, me too, Chromophore! My Tangerine Dream is over 6 ft. She's currently doing the limbo, got her tied over even with the others. It's a real jungle in my grow room right now! Pretty fuzzy buds poppin' all over... Sometimes I just sit with them and admire.

[tlranger]

Sometimes I just sit with them and admire.

Probably a really good thing, your in an oxygen rich environment(euphoric), and your giving back to them(co2).
Which by the law of - give and you shall receive - may add up to some goood stuff!

[Chromophore]

I will confide that the last few nights I have gotten up out of bed at 2 or 3 am and wandered down to the basement to my grow rooms, and just stood in the flowering room for 10 minutes or so, taking it in. Then I was able to go back to bed and sleep.I'm betting OMB is doing this as well.

[OMB]

I will confide that the last few nights I have gotten up out of bed at 2 or 3 am and wandered down to the basement to my grow rooms, and just stood in the flowering room for 10 minutes or so, taking it in. Then I was able to go back to bed and sleep.I'm betting OMB is doing this as well.

Guilty! Hahaha....Last few nights I have practically been rolling in there. Those HPS girls are making serious run now, and the T5 girls are looking pretty dramatic.
I will take a couple more pics later tonight when I'm "Rolling" in it. :cool:

[OMB]

Here's a couple pics. The power of the T5's is evident. The HPS is making a run, but I think this race is already over.....and I win! :cool: Think I'm at 5 weeks in today, those T5 girls are looking pretty shoddy with all those yellow leaves...but the bud's are getting huge.
I am really digging my "pocket" plants, those midget's are the cat's meow.
I should have shutoff the side light when I took pics....oops. Can't really see how heavy those branches are getting.

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[Chromophore]

Interesting. My HPS flowers are nearly identical in development to yours, and are the same age. The T5s are clearly further along. Can you get a feel for the density of the buds? Does either group seem more "airy" than the other?

[OMB]

Hey chromophore, The T5 buds are dense . They were pretty dense the first go, but these are even more solid. I haven't really put the "squeeze" on the HPS one's yet, so not sure about them. Hard to keep my grubby little hands off those T5 girls, the smell is heavenly.
The arms of those little stubbies are look like they are going to be solid buds to the branch bends....very cool.
I'm not sure why people end up with "airy" buds under T5's...maybe they aren't using enough Watts or total Lumen? It occurred to me that the 6 bulb 4 foot fixture I'm using is a
"narrow" beam. Supposedly directs most of the light down instead of a 270 degree arc.
Beats me, but it's working pretty well right now.
I'm working up to a run using a direct watt comparison, or at least being much closer in total watts. Which brings me to this question....
If I add another 150 watt HPS, I'm still just hitting them with 150 watts of light intensity with better penetration?....or now I have 300 watts with better penetration?
...and would I be better served swapping the 150 HPS for 400 watt HPS instead of adding another 150? Really, I don't care about using the HPS....I'm a T5 guy, I just used the HPS cause I had it laying around.
I will have to think about it....Frankly, I don't want to invest anymore money in the whole thing. It's just a small grow for personal Meds so I should really just concentrate on using and perfecting under the T5's.

[Chromophore]

The problem with trying to gauge how wattage affects growth is that it's simply a measure of the bulb's energy consumption. Technically it says nothing about the type or intensity of light output. We go around and around on this issue in our research greenhouses. The real issue is lumens (or better yet PAR), wavelengths, penetration and efficiency. Some of that is obviously connected to bulb/ballast type and wattage. But many many other variables can influence all of those qualities. I like the HPS in the sense that it produces lots of red light (I use a 600 watt Ushio Opti-Red bulb and a light spreader) as red wavelengths are useful for flowering. I think in general the more light intensity you can provide, the better, as long as it's not burning the plants or over-heating things. And OMB you may find this interesting: in playing with the PAR meter in the greenhouse, I find that light intensity drops off in a non-linear way with distance from the source. In other words, PAR at 10 feet from the bulb is far less than half the value at 5 feet. So, optimal distance from the light source may be a more important factor than many people realize.

[OMB]

Good stuff chromophore, very useful info. PAR's are a little out of my league at this point. Lol....I do keep the T5's within 6"s of the plant tops, and I think another big factor is the LST I do when they are only about a week into flower. It works with my stumpy strain, but I suspect I would not be so lucky with a "leggier" strain.
Talk about luck...bringing those seeds back from Maui...Germinating them 2 years later....having the lone survivor of the original 8 seedlings be 5 feet tall, and then having all clones be short and stumpy.
Damn....even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then! ;) Thank goodness plants are resilient, even I can't seem to screw 'em up too bad.

[Chromophore]

OMB trust me you are more than capable of understanding PAR. I really wish growers would get PAR meters and use that as a standard rather than watts, lumens, etc. PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) is a much more relevant and accurate way of measuring useable light. It ignores non-relevant wavelengths (such as green) so it gives a much more useful measure of your lighting intensity and your overall setup. PAR is a measurement of photosynthetic photon (light) flux. Having photon density in the right wavelengths will make a difference no matter what you are growing. Chlorophyll is actually found in several forms, and each of them absorb light energy at different wavelengths. There are a handful of other light absorbing pigments (eg carotenoids, xanthophylls) in plants that absorb light at specific wavelengths as well. Different pigments are more or less important at different stages of the plant's life, and in differing plant types. While it is certainly possible to "overload" a plant with sheer light intensity (scientists refer to this as "photo-bleaching"), in artificial grow operations the biggest problem with light is 1. not enough, 2. not the right kind, or 3. too much heat. The heated air near the light source is very hot, more than people would think. If you have glass in your light reflector, a layer of superheated air can form that will simply burn your plant. What a lot of people call "light-damage" is actually super-localized heat damage.

[OMB]

I am quite sure I can grasp the concept, I'm just not that scientific in my grow. (yet). I did look online for a PAR meter, they ain't cheap. So it looks like I won't be getting one anytime soon. It would appear the 35,000 Lumen of the T5's is fairly optimal for my space and strain, though I'm sure it could be tweaked for even better results.
The HPS lighting is attractive to me in regards to total Lumen and penetration, but I just can't deal with the heat. It's already been a problem in the winter, I'm going to have to revamp ventilation for spring and summer.
Then again....I do have a greenhouse. :)
Hmmmm....a 3rd in the comparison testing? Mother nature against the T5's and HPS? It would be interesting to see if the outdoor one's would stretch like the original mother instead of being Stumpies.

[OMB]

Looking good, just need to avert any catastrophes for another 2 weeks or so.

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[tlranger]

Those are looking really nice!! Smelly?

[OMB]

Those are looking really nice!! Smelly?

Sure are ranger! That's the next issue I need to deal with...Filters. Nothing better than just touching those buds though...(Probably shouldn't, huh?) Walking around sniffing my finger's like a 15 YO boy who got to touch a girl for the 1st time. ;)

[Chromophore]

Damn dude things are really moving along nicely. I think your development may actually be slightly ahead of mine (I think you stated 12/12 just before I did? I started Nov.30th) Anyway those T5s are impressive. Tonight I'm going to install bank of 4x4' T5s perpendicular to my HPS box to get some wider coverage and side-lighting. Another advantage of your shorter plants is that the stems aren't falling over. Mine are so long that now that they're putting on weight they're flopping all over the place. With all of my tethers it looks like some kind of weird S&M session going on in there.

[Chromophore]

Yeah PAR meters are pricey. I'm lucky I can bring one home from the lab to use when I need it. Also there are a lot of junk light meters out there so you've got to do some digging for reliable user feedback before you dive in and pay for one.

[OMB]

Thanks chromophore! The T5's went 12/12 11/29 and the HPS one's 11/30. I am very pleased this 2nd go around. Better than the 1st, they actually got some 'nutes this time. Lol
Looking good, but dropping yellow fans daily....I'm a little concerned there won't be any left before they are ready to cut.
The HPS girls have just a couple leaves with clorosis, but they are just starting to yellow. I'm pretty sure I'm done with that little 150W HPS. I think I'm going to P/U an 8 bulb 2 foot T5HO for that end of my closet and use CFL sidelighting.
That's where the mama plant is going in 1 month, she should be spectacular. I have already been tying that Lady down, she is a bush!...and thirsty! She is so wide and tall, (relatively speaking as far as tall) she needs her own light.
Go Stumpies! :thumbsup:

[Sweet Leaf]

Those are beautiful!

[OMB]

Losing a lot of those yellow fan leaves...I'm getting nervous, I'm only 38 day's in. :(

[catbuds]

Losing a lot of those yellow fan leaves...I'm getting nervous, I'm only 38 day's in. :(

They are hungry! Feed them! Don't sweat the yellow leaves, they won't revert to green, they will fall off. Its not a big deal. More light, denser plant & bud require more nutes. But don't mourn the loss of the sunleaves, there's plenty bud leaf to carry on photosynthesis. They need a little nitrogen @about 1/2 strength. (Your growth food). Then go back to your bloom food & carry on. Remember what Shov said about sometimes they yellow early? That's just an indication they are way ahead of the hps. As buds bulk, they draw stored energy from the sun leaves. The faster the buds bulk, the sooner the sunleaves go. Couldnt be more natural! Clorosis is actually a yellowing due to an iron deficiency. If you had true clorosis (iron deficiency), the tips of calyx & bud leaves would be turning a golden color too, but that is not your problem. You actually have no problem. This is a natural occurrence. I actually wouldn't add any nitrogen, you may end up tasting it in your smoke. But if you really can't stand the thought of yellowing sunleaves, that's the only way you'll prevent more from yellowing. Geeze! You obsess over NATURALLY yellowing leaves more than I did on discovering that third nipple, & having all the hungry stray kittens follow me home! LOL! Just kidding! Hungry kittens have always followed me home! Hahaha! But anyway..... the T5's are just more mature than the hps, so get over it before you develop an ulcer! Just curious. ... if you had a daughter who started developing breast a little early, would you have an aneurysm? So, your plants are GREAT, there is no problem, relax! You're starting to make me think you're OCD! ;) ;) ;)

[OMB]

Hahahaha.....Ok, ok, I will settle down. Daughter's growing boobies? Shoot, they are both in college with boyfriends! :wtf:
Anyway, The buds and small leaves are looking good. I just gave them H2O tonight, they will get their Vitamins tomorrow Mama. ;)

Ok...deep breath now. "I will not look at the plants 5 times a night"....and repeat. :stoned:

[OMB]

More progress, filling out well. :thumbsup:

[OMB]

Couple more....You can "click" on the pics to enlarge any of them.

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[crystaliscious]

bud envy haha!!!!

Beautiful!

[OMB]

Almost there...:thumbsup:

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[catbuds]

Looking GOOD! I'm not getting my thread allerts in my gmail like I'm suposed to. I just found this by skimming the forum. :(

[Chromophore]

The next two weeks are going to be fing cool.

[OMB]

Couple better pics...7 weeks today. :)

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[Chromophore]

Fantastic. Those are such pretty plants. The bud in that last pic looks like it is going to be chronic. I staked mine last night as they were falling all over the place. It's another drawback of growing them so tall is that you have to handle the plants a lot more, and that rubs off a lot of trichomes. But I had colas that were bending their stalks until they were almost upside down. I see that your fan leaves are starting to yellow. Mine haven't yet, so I'm thinking I might be a bit further behind than I thought. Remind me what temp t5s you are using.

[OMB]

Thanks chromophore, they are cool little plants. :) The "arms" are getting heavy, but because it's so short I haven't had to stake them. The Temps of the bulbs are (2) 4 foot 6500's and (4) 4 foot 2700's. The sidelight is (2) 6500K 2 foot 2 bulb. The yellowing occurred very early in flower with the T5's, (see my prior panic in this thread) but the HPS
girls just recently started with the same 12/12 date. Looks like I may have some "Milky" trichomes right now, (click on pics twice to enlarge) but a way's to go yet.
I'm hoping I'm done in a week, but I won't cut early. :thumbsup:
Just ordered a GREAT B-day present my better half, a Volcano vaporizer!! Sorry...not really relevant, but I'm excited about that. ;)
Have you got recent pics up Chromo?

[Chromophore]

I put up some bud pics last night but I'll put up more tonight once I have them staked. It's tough to get the whole grow room in the shot because they've swarmed in all directions. The patient I'm growing for uses a heat gun to vaporize, and personally I think she wastes a lot of medicine that way. She save the leftovers and I have sampled some and they are still quite potent, so she's only getting a fraction of the medicine off of them that way. I have heard very good things about the Volcano.

[OMB]

So the 150W HPS Versus is over as far as I'm concerned. I just ordered another T5HO fixture for that end of my cabinet. I am very satisfied with what my stumpies have done under the T5's and it is the best fit for me and my space. The buds are tight and heavy, no "airy" issues here. I suspect people who have those issues just don't have enough Watt's, I sure don't have that issue. :jointsmile:
It would appear the HPS buds have a a bit more Trichomes turning milky before the T5 one's. Interesting, but the size of the bud's is a "no contest" to the T5's.
I will keep them separate after harvest, more concerned on the quality than the quantity and want to see if there is any perceivable difference.....That will be a rough "study".
:stoned:
I will get some (better) pics up before I wack 'em. Hopefully they will be done soon, I need their space! :)

[tlranger]

Volcanoes- you guys will be walking around the house and yard with big bags of smoke! And lovin it!

[catbuds]

Add more red spectrum. This is good timing, when they've finished plumping & started ripening. Too soon & the buds are looser. :)

[OMB]

Add more red spectrum. This is good timing, when they've finished plumping & started ripening. Too soon & the buds are looser. :)

I can do that! I can pull the (2) 6500k bulbs in my (6) bulb fixture and add (2) more 2700's easy enough. All red....will do tonight when they wakeup.
Should I shutoff the 2 foot 2 bulb T5 sidelight too? Both bulbs are 6500, I don't have any 2700's for that fixture...:(
Thanks mama. :jointsmile:

[Chromophore]

Add more red spectrum. This is good timing, when they've finished plumping & started ripening. Too soon & the buds are looser.

hmmm...I'm thinking maybe I should pop some red bulbs in my T5 rack I have in the flower room. I'm 50/50 red/blue at the moment. OMB and I are roughly at the same stage, so... Sorry, just thinking out loud. OMB I am definitely going to re-configure my flower room to be a combination HPS and T5. I can easily do it to give me just over 1000w total with the HPS directly overhead and the T5s angled in around the perimeter.

[OMB]

hmmm...I'm thinking maybe I should pop some red bulbs in my T5 rack I have in the flower room. I'm 50/50 red/blue at the moment. OMB and I are roughly at the same stage, so... Sorry, just thinking out loud. OMB I am definitely going to re-configure my flower room to be a combination HPS and T5. I can easily do it to give me just over 1000w total with the HPS directly overhead and the T5s angled in around the perimeter.

I don't think you will be disappointed Chromo. I do think the combination of the two could be a winner. I feel in my case it was just not enough watts with the little HPS to be a fair comparison. I just can't deal with the heat from more wattage so the little HPS is done.
They do look just a little different though, just enough to make me ponder....

[catbuds]

The T5's are seriously underestimated little gems! ;)

[Chromophore]

OMB this is a bit off topic but we keep coming back to this...of my 5 recent clones, only 1 survived. I threw out 4 of them today. The leaves showed some damping off so I pulled them out of the rockwool and the stems were soft and grey:( I think the place I had them was too cold. Also I didn't position a node properly so that it was down in the wool. Anyway, the point being that I'm going to take new ones today and I'm going to try your twig method. But while I'm on this topic, I'm curious what you and everyone else thinks about taking clones off of a flowering plant. Have you done it? Is there a trick to getting it to work?

[tlranger]

I'm curious what you and everyone else thinks about taking clones off of a flowering plant.

It's very difficult.

[OMB]

OMB this is a bit off topic but we keep coming back to this...of my 5 recent clones, only 1 survived. I threw out 4 of them today. The leaves showed some damping off so I pulled them out of the rockwool and the stems were soft and grey:( I think the place I had them was too cold. Also I didn't position a node properly so that it was down in the wool. Anyway, the point being that I'm going to take new ones today and I'm going to try your twig method. But while I'm on this topic, I'm curious what you and everyone else thinks about taking clones off of a flowering plant. Have you done it? Is there a trick to getting it to work?

You can do it Chromophore. The original Mother of my plants was cloned 4 weeks into Veg. The individual cuts were done like any other, but each one was bagged/domed individually. Took 3 "twig" cuts and all (eventually) rooted and returned to veg. The Mama plant I have is one of those 3. The rooting period was long though, like 3 weeks.
I believe they were hardy enough to root and turn due to the location of the cuttings. Note These were in soil though,and just kept moist with misting.

I think I know what you have in mind and that one is pretty far along, but give it a shot! Not much to lose and experimenting is good. :thumbsup:

[Chromophore]

Thanks OMB, I'm going to give it a try. I read some old threads here regarding this topic and it sounds like it can work, but often the time required to return to veg is quite long. As I'm at week 7, that's really pushing it. I've got a lot of small twiggy buds low in the canopy of that plant. I'm thinking maybe I should clip off the buds themselves and just leave the crown and a fan leaf or two. I'll experiment.

[OMB]

Kinda off topic, but I just like growing stuff! It started when I was just a kid. Alway's had my own little vegetable patch, then it faded as I got older....You know, girls, baseball, etc.
I'm glad I did this....It makes me feel good watching my plants and fussing over them, I love the whole process, I dare say it makes me happy. :D
I think the whole grow thing is therapeutic for some people,(me for example) as I find it calming. I'm a high strung kinda guy, so anything that takes me down a notch is good! ;)
I do tend to get overly focused on whatever my current interest is though.....Hmmmm, might need to medicate for that. :jointsmile:
I'm glad I hung with this forum....a little "touch and go" at first, but some great people here and I'm glad to be a part of it. So happy growing all!....enjoy the trip, getting there is half the fun.

[Chromophore]

ditto.

[catbuds]

Cloning from a flowering plant can be very slow & not always successful. Doesn't mean it can't be worth your time. Sometimes you just don't have a choice if you have something you want to perpetuate but didn't know that untill she flowered. This is a case where you'll want humidomes for sure. Misting & checking often. Carefull of excess moisture though, misting while the dome is off & replacing it after the moisture has evaporated. I like doing it this way because it ensures she gets several good air exchanges a day. I wasn't satisfied with the regular spray bottles, so what I ended up with is a 'misty mate' personal mister. Its a much finer mist than you can get with a spray bottle, its more like fog. No water droplets at all. I mist around my space heaters when it gets uncomfortably dry in here too. Its a tiny pump up compression sprayer with a fog nozzle. Sometimes I even use it for its intended purpose! Ha! Don't foliar feed with one though, they WILL clog, can't unclog them so they're shot. But houses get DRY when the heat comes on & only cacti like that shit. My rule of thumb (or maybe nose). If the air is dry enough to make my nose bleed, its PAST time to mist the plants! So play around with cloning guys. Just remember, slow & not always successful from a mom in flower, and... if your heat is on for the winter, know that the air is DRYYYYY.... :)

[OMB]

Hmmmm....I am slightly concerned. Sugar leaves on the T5 buds turning purple on the edges and stiffening, or dying. The Trichomes along the tips and edges appear to be dying as well.
They kind of turn black along the edges. Some milky Trichomes on most buds...or what appears to me to be milky, but I was going to give them until next weekend.
Uh oh...normal?


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[catbuds]

Not a bag thing at all. They can turn a rainbow of colors. It indicates stored energies being used up. Exhausting certain nutes will change certain colors. (In your case, I believe phosphorus) they're doing their job, supplying nutes to the buds for the final finale. That also tells you the stored nutes are being used up so you don't taste them in your smoke!
-- I've read Pappapain's alert on my gmail, but haven't clicked onto his post yet. If you haven't been there yet, GO! Awesome pics, awesome grow, & his girls are turning purple. I'm getting ready to click over & have a look myself. (Soldiers co-op grow). ;)

[tlranger]

Your getting there!!

[OMB]

Hmmm.....maybe I'm not understanding how "milky" they should be to be done? If they are just "Opaque", is that milky?? If they aren't clear anymore?
...or are we talking "Milk" color? Maybe the stiffing of the sugar leaf edges and the dying of those Trichs is telling me they are done?
Hmmm....going to take a good look tonight, I hope they are done....it's getting crowded in there.

[Chromophore]

Under the microscope the trichomes appeared less "cloudy" than when I looked at them with a hand-held loupe under the growlights, so this could be tricky. My grower-friend who was over a few days ago said it's hard to get all the buds to have the same degree of maturation, so you have to go on an individual basis. He said his rule of thumb was to pick when the bud had mostly cloudy trichomes, with an equal amount of both clear and amber/black. But Rosenthal says it's a bit of a user preference because you're really selecting for THC vs CDBs, with the latter being present in the cloudies, the former enriched in the clears.

[OMB]

Under the microscope the trichomes appeared less "cloudy" than when I looked at them with a hand-held loupe under the growlights, so this could be tricky. My grower-friend who was over a few days ago said it's hard to get all the buds to have the same degree of maturation, so you have to go on an individual basis. He said his rule of thumb was to pick when the bud had mostly cloudy trichomes, with an equal amount of both clear and amber/black. But Rosenthal says it's a bit of a user preference because you're really selecting for THC vs CDBs, with the latter being present in the cloudies, the former enriched in the clears.

Thanks chromophore....getting a little nervous about the sugar leaf issue. I'm using a handheld jeweler's Loupe, I think it's 30X, I'd have to see if it's marked. I'm more concerned with THC, I'd like a couch lock affect if possible. Relaxation is key to me, I am just too high strung my friend.
Well, I will have a good look tonight, but we have to be close at this point. Water uptake is down and chlorosis is rampant. Not many Fans left anymore, and the smell?...Heavenly.
I snuck a little branch the other day and dried it. The taste was incredible and the effect at 7 weeks was admirable.
Wed is 8 weeks, I will report back late tonight.
Thanks Chromo!

[Chromophore]

But to answer your question I believe "cloudy" is a better description rather than "milky" at least from what I've seen. "Translucent" would maybe be better. They're not solid white, just not water-clear. Like they're filled with vaseline. Hmm, that's kind of unpleasant. But I can't think of a better example at the moment.;)

[Chromophore]

I think for couch-lock you want CDBs, but we need one of the old-timers to clarify this.

[OMB]

Say Goodnight Gracie....the HPS plants are going down. :jointsmile:

[OMB]

Couple quick pics. Took a very good look under two different lights with 30x doubled, they are done....and their place has already been taken.
The HPS Girls will be a bit longer, so Mama plant get's a short reprieve. She will get her own Light, she is a big bitch! :smokin:

Trying something different on the next one's, I only topped one of them. I'm going to just let them go,(if I can stand it) without tying them open like the pictured one's were.
What the hell, half the fun is the experimenting. :)



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[tlranger]

Those are some nice! ladies. Congrats on a fine job!

[Chromophore]

A+ if they smoke like they look.:smokin:

[OMB]

Those are some nice! ladies. Congrats on a fine job!

Thanks ranger!...and I hope they smoke like they look Chromo. :) They are "in the dark" for 72 hrs before I wack 'em. I read somewhere that was a good idea, why not try it?
Round 2 is in the bag, round 3 started the roll. :jointsmile:

[tlranger]

Know it's late this time, but your hooked now!! When I think a plant is ready,I give it another week, and sometimes another.

[Chromophore]

So OMBB, I'm curious what made you decide they were ready. Trichome color? Feel? What do the trichomes look like on these?

[OMB]

Hey Chromo,More than 50% are "milky" or translucent. The edges of the sugar leaves are drying/dying and the Trichs are too in those area's. Water uptake has fallen off and they just appear "done" to me.
They are in a dark room for a few days and then I will re-evaluate to be sure. If for some reason I change my mind, they can go back under the lights I guess.
The HPS girls stayed, but they have "cloudy" trichs as well. They have been behind from the beginning, but Chlorosis has hit them hard in the last 4-5 day's and they are turning the corner.
Am I early for my Indica strain?...I don't think so, but we shall see. I can only go by what I have read to decide if they are done or not. Color/cloudiness of the Trich's seems to be subjective and I have not personally seen a group of pics that definitively indicate stage with color/cloudiness.
Next time I will keep at least one of the new girls in flower past where I think they are done next round, just to see what happens.
If I'm wrong?...Oh well, it's a learning process and I am not disappointed with my progress at all. Grow and learn, that's all I can do.
....and If the "sampler" bud I took at 7 weeks is an indicator, it's going to be just fine. :jointsmile:

[Chromophore]

If they're not taking water I would think that's a pretty goo indicator they're done. But everything I've read or been told in this forum suggests erring on the side of longer. Ranger waits a week from the point where he thinks they're ready. I have a feeling this is going to be the hardest part for noobs like us. Even Rosenthal says the most common mistake people make is harvesting too soon. Have they shown the last-gasp "swelling" of the calyxes that people talk about?

[catbuds]

They go from clear, to cloudy, to milky, to light amber, then dark amber. Neither of you are ripe yet! Easy on the eagerness boys, you're gonna pee in the floor! (Well that works on Tito anyway! LOL!) Hey, if you're having anxiety & heart palpitations, go to the ER, not the GR. Anxiety is such a bitch when it gets this close, & I'm really bad for picking on you, so I'll stop. But seriously, I think some deep breathing would help the both of you. I'm kind of afraid you're going to panic & harvest too early. Just trust the trichrome color. You can go from all milky (still not ripe enough for my taste) to mostly milky with about 20-30% amber. So don't harvest before they're ripe. You will have wasted all your time, effort & money. I'm going to google THC/trichromes & see if I can find macro shots. Dont remember where I was on line the other day & saw some excellent ones, but they're out there if you look for them. Theres some lingering around here but I've no idea what thread. You guys need to have a good long look so you can feel more confident about this harvest thing. I'll get back to you with what I find. :)

[Chromophore]

catbuds you are amazing.

[tlranger]

For me the "wait another week" has just come from experience. Probably starting from 'take the top' and let the bottom go ahead fill some more. And then seeing the world of difference another week makes at this time. Down stairs, it was I'll take this one cause it's so ripe, then in natural light, sh#t this is as green as a gourd.
It was really turned into, take one to to try, and while waiting for it to dry to try, darn these others sure got better. This is the first place I have found that thought I needed a magnifying glass to harvest with, probably doesn't work in the dead of night out in the field anyway. Smell and firmness, like a really nice breast, generally tells the tail. A buds got to fill, air makes no weight.

Catbuds you are amazing.
Told you not to give her any shit, see, we don't want to run her off!

[tlranger]

Maybe not all of us old people get dumber as we get older.

[catbuds]

Yous funny!
-- Ok guys. I googled ripe trichomes/THC & there it was. First on the list. & Chromo, I found your avatar! Look at those pics untill they are very familiar. It will help you feel comfortable with judging your own.
-- Ranger, I harvested by feel & smell for years untill I needed it as meds. Then I wanted to seperate my am meds (milky) & my pm meds (amber) to properly treat my ailments according to the time of day. At that point, it became more than just about the high, it had a real job to do. My little scope has a white LED light so you're not fooled by the color of the grow lights. HPS makes EVERYTHING look amber. I wasn't convinced this made such a difference untill I made the comparison. Been a believer ever since.

Feel... smell....breast...?... Ranger....if you find a breast that smells, maybe its over ripe. Did you check its trichomes?

[catbuds]

[quote=tlranger]Maybe not all of us old people get dumber as we get older.[/QUOTE

You know, it would probably be to our advantage if we got dumber BEFORE we got older...... then it wouldn't hurt so bad to look in the mirror! (Oh god forgive me! I'm stoned! Who's thread have we jacked now?) ;)

OMB, we're gonna have to change your name to 'Jack'!

[OMB]

Thank you, you wise guru's you. :thumbsup: I put 'em back under the lights just a minute ago. Hopefully 24 hrs in the dark didn't scare 'em.
The HPS girls got hit hard with Chlorosis today...They sure did make that turn. Out comes the loupe for another 30 minute exam. Lol
Must.....resist....harvesting....:jointsmile:
Thanks again, nothing to lose by waiting.

[catbuds]

Must.....resist....harvesting....:jointsmile:[/QUOTE]

Thank god the borg's not here.... resistance is NOT futile! LOL! NAH, the dark didn't hurt them. Some say it speeds ripening. But they're pretty tough gurls. Only boys are afraid of the dark!

30 min exam...?... 'Jack', are you playing dirty doctor with the gurls?...... Hummm? ;)

[OMB]

It's true...I look up their skirts every chance I get! Lol...Just looked again, mostly cloudy and some amber's too.

[OMB]

I looked at some images using your search parameter's Catbuds, good to see some hi res macro shots of the various stages, thank you. Now I just want more magnification....Looks like a run to the store for 60x tomorrow.
After looking at the pics, I am right there.

[tlranger]

You guys using your scopes can answer me this. Being an old school mainliner(I try for one nice bud per plant), is the end of that bud really the ripest part of the plant. With the bottom not as far along. I'm always picky during harvest. And my main ranger use to always wanted to take the end of off the nicest died bud. I start at the bottom and work my way up, on a dried bud that is.


feel...smell...breast it could just be pheromones!!

[tlranger]

Must.....resist....harvesting....:jointsmile:

Thank god the borg's not here.... resistance [/QUOTE]

This surprised me. Grandson is spending weekend here, some don't want me alone. He is coming up to watch sci fi movies with granddad. Guess I better get some food!!

[Shovelhandle]

You guys using your scopes can answer me this. Being an old school mainliner(I try for one nice bud per plant), is the end of that bud really the ripest part of the plant. With the bottom not as far along. I'm always picky during harvest. And my main ranger use to always wanted to take the end of off the nicest died bud. I start at the bottom and work my way up, on a dried bud that is.

it could just be pheromones!!

The way a plant finishes is different for different strains. Some from top to bottom, but others go bottom to top. My present haze plants seem to be going from bottom to top. The bottom buds have slowed or stopped developing pistils and the pistils are drying up but the tops are still rushing out pistils and appear to be no where near harvest. Under a scope the trichomes are all clear with some colored (red/amber) but not translucent.

[catbuds]

Ranger, I start a the bottom too & let the dummy be all excited thinking he got the best of the rest! Look at it this way, when a sativa bud runs, like say from a light leak or something, where does that running new growth come from? The tip top part of the bud, right? Where does the hairs start browning first? Last? I like that couch-lock knock me out kind of high, & the bottom part, being older, is riper. By the time the top trichomes are just starting to turn slightly amber, sometimes the bottom is becoming over ripe.
-- Pheromomes! HA! HA! Good one Ranger! LMAO!

-- OMB, my little handheld microscope is 60x - 100x magnification. $12.99. + tax @ Radio Shack. Its a great little tool. Need a steady hand though & you'll still want to keep your loop. Dutch Pimp posted that for us a while back. He posted a link to 'drying & curing your buds' too & I used to send noobes to it when they harvested their first grow. Its on here somewhere. You'll have to find it & book mark it. Its the best tutorial you'll find on the subject, & you'll be needing it soon! ;) ;) ;)

[crystaliscious]

Ranger, I start a the bottom too & let the dummy be all excited thinking he got the best of the rest! Look at it this way, when a sativa bud runs, like say from a light leak or something, where does that running new growth come from? The tip top part of the bud, right? Where does the hairs start browning first? Last? I like that couch-lock knock me out kind of high, & the bottom part, being older, is riper. By the time the top trichomes are just starting to turn slightly amber, sometimes the bottom is becoming over ripe.
-- Pheromomes! HA! HA! Good one Ranger! LMAO!


-- OMB, my little handheld microscope is 60x - 100x magnification. $12.99. + tax @ Radio Shack. Its a great little tool. Need a steady hand though & you'll still want to keep your loop. Dutch Pimp posted that for us a while back. He posted a link to 'drying & curing your buds' too & I used to send noobes to it when they harvested their first grow. Its on here somewhere. You'll have to find it & book mark it. Its the best tutorial you'll find on the subject, & you'll be needing it soon! ;) ;) ;)

The best microscope I have ever used is made for diamonds ( yes I do know how to look at those too and determine 'ripeness')….it sells on amazon for under 5 dollars- it is an LED lit 100X….I have several, one for almost every little pocket and purse and GR…..good thing I also have a shitload of rocks around too - my scopes and scales are claimed by them…hehe

[Chromophore]

My AfgooeyXLemon Skunk plants are definitely ripening top down, even though I clearly have several phenotypes. A lot of nuggety stuff in the lower canopy is just now getting going. Catbuds is sure correct when she says to get out from under the HPS to judge trichomes. When I was checking with my hand loupe under the lights, the trichomes seemed much more advanced (cloudies and ambers). Once I started bringing cut leaves and popping them under the scope (which also has a white LED) everything was different. Mostly clear with some cloudies. I'm almost 50/50 right now with no ambers.

[catbuds]

The way a plant finishes is different for different strains. Some from top to bottom, but others go bottom to top. My present haze plants seem to be going from bottom to top. The bottom buds have slowed or stopped developing pistils and the pistils are drying up but the tops are still rushing out pistils and appear to be no where near harvest. Under a scope the trichomes are all clear with some colored (red/amber) but not translucent.

Yeah, that's true too. 'From the bottom up' was Big Berthas way, & after having her for 20+ yrs, I guess her habits became mine. I have had nugget type buds (bag seed) that were round & compact that ripened evenly all over. If I remember right, my skunks & northernlighs ripened from bottom up. I was given some seeds by a distant cousin. The hairs on those buds browned evenly, but the trichs ripened from the top down. I remember that well, because it was prone to hermies & I kept a close watch on her with a scope. It was worth it because it was the best high with the best taste I'd ever had. I need to keep more variety in my grow. Kinda have a tendency to get stuck in a rut. :)

[catbuds]

Under the microscope the trichomes appeared less "cloudy" than when I looked at them with a hand-held loupe under the growlights, so this could be tricky. My grower-friend who was over a few days ago said it's hard to get all the buds to have the same degree of maturation, so you have to go on an individual basis. He said his rule of thumb was to pick when the bud had mostly cloudy trichomes, with an equal amount of both clear and amber/black. But Rosenthal says it's a bit of a user preference because you're really selecting for THC vs CDBs, with the latter being present in the cloudies, the former enriched in the clears.

Ok. It is a users preferance. Clear is immature. Cloudy/milky (terminology can be interchangeable) is when thc is present & ready, cbn just starting to come into play. Amber, cbn comes to the forefront as thc starts to degrade. All amber, dark, forget about thc. Its all cbn at this point & what you have is a tranquilizer. A combination of milky/amber is what you're after. More milky, an energizing up kind of high. More amber, that would be your couch lock, like what OMB & I are both after. I LIKE any kind of pot buzz, but insomnia & muscle spasams, night pain lead me to the couch lock buzz. A few energizing buds are nice to have around for the am with my coffee on the mornings after I've had little/no sleep, but have things needing done. Hope this helps you 'younguns' decide what you want. My man Ed's right. Ripeness is a personal choice!
-- I'm going to go see if I can find 'ripening & cureing your buds' so I can lead you guys right to it. Its a necessary read, & YES, its very important! ......I'll be back......

[catbuds]

Oops! Before I go... OMB.. Did you harvest plants before you had AMBER??? If you did, you missed the couch lock high you are after. Hummm... boy, you don't need to learn how to grow (you can already do that), you need to learn how to be patient! Don't move till I get back

[OMB]

Nothing cut mama....I'm not moving until you get back!
Wait....can I go to the bathroom? ;)

[OMB]

This thread? http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/60954-drying-curing-your-buds.html

[Chromophore]

Thanks for that explanation catbuds, that's just what OMB and I need at this point. I personally prefer the "up" and "talkative" effects, but this is for a patient and she wants the pain relief. However, she also wants to combat the exhaustion those goes along with her auto-immune disease, so based on what you're saying I probably want to harvest when I'm at 50/50 cloudy/amber. I still have a ways to go. I still have a lot of clears that are small and in the process of filling.

[Chromophore]

Well OMB after reading through the curing and drying thread, one thing became very clear: you and I are going to have to somehow acquire even MORE patience. It's like torture.

[OMB]

Thanks for that explanation catbuds, that's just what OMB and I need at this point. I personally prefer the "up" and "talkative" effects, but this is for a patient and she wants the pain relief. However, she also wants to combat the exhaustion those goes along with her auto-immune disease, so based on what you're saying I probably want to harvest when I'm at 50/50 cloudy/amber. I still have a ways to go. I still have a lot of clears that are small and in the process of filling.

Hey Chromo, the other issue with reading the Trichomes is the plant continues to produce clear one's during the process. Hence my apprehension...So I have clears, cloudies, a few milkies and some amber....and I hit 8 weeks today.
Now my biggest issue is space. I added 4 new girls into flower 12/31 to replace the 4 I already had in flower and now it's getting mighty crowded since they are really starting to pop. Tough problem to have, huh? Trying to get my timing down for a once a month, 2 plant harvest. Just trying to keep myself in meds, that's all I need.
It will workout well if the T5 girls are done in another week and the HPS one's follow a week later.
That way I will alway's have 2 that should theoretically be higher in THC or CBD's...a 2 week stagger in total 12/12 time.
..... that's the (current) plan anyway. Then I will know which one works better for me. (THC or CBD's)

[OMB]

Well OMB after reading through the curing and drying thread, one thing became very clear: you and I are going to have to somehow acquire even MORE patience. It's like torture.

Hahahaha....No, wait a second.That will be another week to dry and then a month to cure.
AAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGH!! :(

[Shovelhandle]

I can understand completely. Always very anxious to know how good the results are. But time is what gives us the results we want. Once I got going, having a good head stash from the previous grow and the grow before that is the best reward for our efforts. I must have lots of patience though, I like to smoke the long flowering haze strains. So I must endure the long flowering time to get the herb.

[catbuds]

Here's what I do to make sure I have 'milky ams' & 'amber pms'..... 'scope my buds twice a day. Harvest when I have some buds milky with just a little amber, but most buds amber with just a few milky. Then as I manicure the buds, seperate them into their two seperate piles & dry on a rack. Jar them separately & label as am & pm. That covers all the bases for my medical needs & keeps the old head happily buzzed too!
-- Yep OMB, that's the thread! Bookmark it?
-- To acquire paitence, one must first reach a zen like state & then.... FUCK! WHO THE HELL AM I KIDDING!!! LMAO!! I HAVE ABSOULTY NO PAITENCE EITHER!!!! NOPE! NODA! ZILCH! LOL! Guys, I'm lucky if I can keep my hands out of the curing jar the first week! That thread will teach you how to reach perfection in your buds. Now if anyone can find find a thread that teaches patience, I'll jump on that one with all. Four. Feet! ;)
-- OMB... Go to the bathroom..... unless you want to mop the floor....... ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[Chromophore]

Since we're on this topic, I have come across several sources/people who mention a sudden swelling of the calyxes that supposedly marks the final attempt for pollination. It is after this "popping" that they harvest. I still think trichome distribution is the most logical way to assess ripeness, but I'm curious what you old-timers think about that.

[OMB]

Here's what I do to make sure I have 'milky ams' & 'amber pms'..... 'scope my buds twice a day. Harvest when I have some buds milky with just a little amber, but most buds amber with just a few milky. Then as I manicure the buds, seperate them into their two seperate piles & dry on a rack. Jar them separately & label as am & pm. That covers all the bases for my medical needs & keeps the old head happily buzzed too!
-- Yep OMB, that's the thread! Bookmark it?
-- To acquire paitence, one must first reach a zen like state & then.... FUCK! WHO THE HELL AM I KIDDING!!! LMAO!! I HAVE ABSOULTY NO PAITENCE EITHER!!!! NOPE! NODA! ZILCH! LOL! Guys, I'm lucky if I can keep my hands out of the curing jar the first week! That thread will teach you how to reach perfection in your buds. Now if anyone can find find a thread that teaches patience, I'll jump on that one with all. Four. Feet! ;)
-- OMB... Go to the bathroom..... unless you want to mop the floor....... ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)


Hehehehe....yep, patience is NOT one of my virtues! Thanks Mama...I barely made it but I had to wait until you got back. ;)

Now to make the situation worse, my Volcano arrived today. It's beautiful, and I have no Meds. :(

Wait, did I say this before?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGH!!!!!!

[catbuds]

In my own personal experience, its true that this final plumping is a signal that the plant is attempting to breed before it expires, but has no bearing on the ripeness of the trichomes. Most strains would be NOT ripe at that point. Since the buds would be at their plumpest, prettiest state, you'd have great bag appeal, but wouldn't have reached the psychoactive potential. I've seen many people do this to their blueberry for bag appeal, which helps if you want to retain that round nugg shape, but when I smoke, I'm more concerned with thc, cbd/cbn, & terpinoids.
-- Chromo... salvia d..... MNS has a sub forum of medical plants which has a thread devoted to your plant. So why aren't you there yet? Crystal found the medical plant forum & I'm not sure her family has seen her since. Arent you interested in hearing how others use it in their shamanistic practices, etc.... I'm going to hound you till go over & check it out. Dont want you leave here, just broaden your horizons. Its a seed bank too, so a lot of the forum is devoted to history, breeding & genetics. Very large pics too. Go...... :)

[Chromophore]

catbuds I can't talk about Salvia too much or I'll get another infraction, but I will definitely check that out. I am really interested in talking to people about growing practices. My plants are really sick and I think it's an unusual reaction to thrips, but I need to know if others have had these symptoms. I treat thrips with Minute Pirate Bugs, which gobble them up like there's no tomorrow, but the bugs are very hard to purchase at the moment.

By the way, what is the full name of that forum? When I search for MNS I get nothing.

[catbuds]

Mr Nice Seeds. When I joined, I just googled MNS, but one of our friends just got popped (because of odor exhausted by his fans, nothing to do with the forums) & it would seem they've stepped up security since the po po took his computers & even his wifes ipad. Rangers been having trouble, but Crystal & Weeze got in yesterday. If I can catch one of them, I'll send them here to tell you what they did to get in. ;)

[crystaliscious]

catbuds I can't talk about Salvia too much or I'll get another infraction, but I will definitely check that out. I am really interested in talking to people about growing practices. My plants are really sick and I think it's an unusual reaction to thrips, but I need to know if others have had these symptoms. I treat thrips with Minute Pirate Bugs, which gobble them up like there's no tomorrow, but the bugs are very hard to purchase at the moment.

By the way, what is the full name of that forum? When I search for MNS I get nothing.

Chromo your gonna love this place!!!

I couldnt get in through regular server- had to go through google's 'startpage' duck duck go would not let me into the forum….once I saved it though it let me on from my regular server.

I had to go to MrNiceGuy seeds….then went down the main page to a forum topic and clicked on it- then from there I was able to find the main forum menu…


Yes there is a whole THREAD about that demonized dinged word that I won't type here!

And the breeding info is way more than I can read for months but very good stuff!

see ya there!

[Chromophore]

crystal I registered and am just waiting for activation. Thanks for the instructions.

[tlranger]

crystal I registered and am just waiting for activation. Thanks for the instructions.

Found it with Bing, registered, got activated, looked at some cool stuff, saw some familiar names, and bookmarked. Since then then I can get to home page or store, but the entry to forums locks me up every time. Have to shut down and restart, then I come back here to family territory.

[OMB]

I may have to check that out. So I get home and I have a new Volcano and no meds. Long story short, one the girls lost a small arm and the Volcano is Bitchin'! :stoned:
Hmmmm....I suppose I should look at the Trichomes....Eh, whatever. I got a new toy. ;)

[catbuds]

Hey Crystal! Come help Ranger! We've gotta get him over there!

OMB, I knew you couldn't hold out! Not with that new toy staring you in the face! Congratulations on the volcano..... but are you even going to make it to the curing jar? Its different if your sitting on some stash while you go through these processes, but if not....? Humm. You're only human. Come on over to mns. Do what Crystal said. Your mind is a multidimensional thing... so expand the dimension. ;)

Ranger. Think of this as one of those family trips. You have to go wither you want to or not! Lol! Crystal has a trick. She will help you. ;)

[tlranger]

Think they should put up a sign... 297914

[crystaliscious]

I think Google is blocking the website, if you have certain links on your site you get blocked by Google and it makes it he'll to find. Sooooo...
Try clearing history and cookies
Then go to a private search engine the 3 I know of duck duck go ( which could not find it), startpage( which Google owns) and dark net ( partner uses I haven't but he found it right away)
Then the trick is that he hides the forum with no direct link on the front page- probably why rangers server is dropping it and locking up. So scroll down on that front web page of msn seeds and you see new forum topics, click on any of them and you are now in the forum- look towards the top left hand side of the page and you will see written in pink not too large" msn forum" click there and add to favorites.
Stayed up late again last night reading the feudal story between shamtibaba and Arjan,interesting to see that this industry is like all others, greed and ego.... Glad I get to see all sides but makes me realize that when you find good people in your life, then true prosperity is a given! See ya there ranger!!!!

[Shovelhandle]

Google shows lots of links to the forum when I enter "Mr Nice Seeds" so I don't understand the trouble some folks are having. Myself, my computer is giving me trouble with compacting and extracting files. shit!

[tlranger]

Sorry guys, still looking for the door that's unlocked, can get to home page and any place there but the forums - no problem.

Bottom of page, very bottom of page, individual forum links - all seem to knock my silk out, always close down and restore tabs. Start over from home page. Getting pretty quick at this.

[Chromophore]

When I go to their forum now I get this message:

Your account has been activated but you are currently in the moderation queue to be added to the forum.

guess I just wait some more?

[crystaliscious]

When I go to their forum now I get this message:

Your account has been activated but you are currently in the moderation queue to be added to the forum.

guess I just wait some more?

Yup- they are on Europe time so are way ahead of me in the central zone- took about 3-4 hrs to get that moderation ok- I just kept readingâ?¦Man the shi'ite about the 2 breeders is way better than any soap operaâ?¦.too much drama, hope they get it worked out!

[crystaliscious]

Sorry guys, still looking for the door that's unlocked, can get to home page and any place there but the forums - no problem.

Bottom of page, very bottom of page, individual forum links - all seem to knock my silk out, always close down and restore tabs. Start over from home page. Getting pretty quick at this.

Could be the internet server blocking you from the forums- possibly try to go through a different server like firefox or googlechrome- they have less strict protcols and open more webpages...

[crystaliscious]

Hey will I get banned if I post a link?

[Shovelhandle]

the arjan/shanti is a non issue anymore. once in a while a shit stirrer looking for drama will ask the same old same old and try and ignite flames. It's not what the forum is about really.
$.02

[crystaliscious]

I agree Shovel- I noticed in order to really get info I had to LEAVE the forum- it's sad that this is haunting such a great breeder- hope he gets past it and looks like he is working on it...

[OMB]

Hahahaha...it's all good mama, I will get some stash this weekend. My new T5HO to replace, (yes, I said replace. The purists are twitching right now) the HPS will be here today.
So it's all good....on to the next grow experiment I say, this try was pretty successful.
Yep... you guys saved me from being impatient. The girls are still drawing water and plumping, so the wait continues.
Now where did I put the Volcano?

[Chromophore]

Kind of aggravated that MNS won't move my account out of the queue. I need to talk to Crystal about growing. I'm having some serious problems.

[catbuds]

Kind of aggravated that MNS won't move my account out of the queue. I need to talk to Crystal about growing. I'm having some serious problems.
Oh Chromo. I'm so sorry. I know they're touchy & can go down hill FAST. I hope they hurry & get you in. You can discuss it freely over there. Not only that, you'll have the PMs if you decide you want to take it off the open forums. What I'm trying to say is, if worse comes to worse, hook up through the PMs & she can probably get some rooted cuttings to you to start u over. Keeping fingers crossed.
-- Ranger, hang in there buddy. We'll get you in somehow. Actually, I'll throw the ball to Crystal. That shits over my head! :)

[OMB]

Chromo?!...What happened buddy? I just got registered over there, waiting for the e-mail.

[Chromophore]

OMB my Salvia divinorum are really sick. Crystal has experience growing them but we aren't allowed to discuss it in this forum. So I'm trying to get into the MNS forum so I can talk to her about it. But two days now and they haven't moved my account out of the registration queue. I'm activated, but I still can't do anything but lurk because the mods haven't moved me out of the queue, whatever that means. :mad:

[Chromophore]

But as for Cannabis, you must be getting close. My grower friend came over last night and we inspected buds and trichomes with a fine-toothed comb. Even picked a few nuggets so he could coach me on trimming. My God the time that is going to take once the main harvest hits...anyway, we concluded that I'm probably 3-7 days from first picking. Trichomes are still a tad early and some buds are still a little airy. But I've got my trimming stations and hanging space ready to go. I'm guessing you're going to be doing some picking this weekend.

[crystaliscious]

Chromosome when you get in hit me up! I will say this tho- you probably already know, they are finicky with temps and humidity AND soil- 80's about 60% humidity and acidy soil- they aren't heavy feeders and are tough in colder climates. During the winter I keep them on a heating mat with a dome, the dome is also to protect from pests they are divine to little bugs too!
In the summer they flourish under a shady tree- but they are highly susceptible to pests, mites and moths( they lay eggs and the larvae can demolish one overnight!)
We will be talking soon, I also posted quite a bit on the thread there with other posts that may be helpful - talk soon!!!! :) ( willing the moderators to get on with it!!!)

[OMB]

OMB my Salvia divinorum are really sick. Crystal has experience growing them but we aren't allowed to discuss it in this forum. So I'm trying to get into the MNS forum so I can talk to her about it. But two days now and they haven't moved my account out of the registration queue. I'm activated, but I still can't do anything but lurk because the mods haven't moved me out of the queue, whatever that means. :mad:

Hang in there Chromo! I'm in the same que and waiting. I'm looking forward to getting over there and the ability to PM!

[crystaliscious]

One other thing chromosome, I have no evidence but I have noticed they respond well to blue light in the 5000 k range..... The aerogarden lightbulb :)

And it is freakin autocorrect that keeps misspelling your name :)

[Chromophore]

hmmmm, I have them under 50/50 3000 K/5000 K. That's something to think about.

[OMB]

One other thing chromosome, I have no evidence but I have noticed they respond well to blue light in the 5000 k range..... The aerogarden lightbulb :)

And it is freakin autocorrect that keeps misspelling your name :)

I was wondering what was going on there...;)

[crystaliscious]

Red makes go all puny!!! I don't even mix it til the go outside

[OMB]

Final pics of the two T5 plants...HPS when they finish.



298034298035298036298037298038298039

[smello1]

looking good

[Chromophore]

Oh man..

[OMB]

I just got done wacking and trimming one of them. Very pleased with the result from a 10" tall plant. If I can keep my paws off it until it's dry, :smokin: I will give a final dry weight.
It's going to be a little more than I expected, and the smell? Damn....I just want to roll in it. :)

[catbuds]

Hey buddy! Need help rolling in that there?!?!? I'm available! ! I'm on pins & needles till the big finalie..... you know, everything dried & the BIG comparison; T5 /HPS.... I know we're gonna win. I just can't wait to see by how much!~~~go to my thread & see what happened to my damned lights! :(

[OMB]

It's already over Mama...No question when comparing bud size or quantity....but we still want to know, right? ;)
Thanks again for all the help and encouragement mama, it's been fun!

[catbuds]

I can't wait to hear the dried weight comparison! That's gonna bust some balls! Easy there buddy! The end of that last post almost sounded like a farewell letter! Can't let that happen! :)

[crystaliscious]

Can't wait to see!!!!

BTW OMB- in my timezone you posted up about harvest at exactly 4:20! :thumbsup:

[catbuds]

I keep seeing references to 420.... apparently I've missed something monumental. .....What the hell is 420???? :wtf:

[tlranger]

I keep seeing references to 420.... apparently I've missed something monumental. .....What the hell is 420???? :wtf:

This is the first time you really surprised me!!!!

[catbuds]

Alrighty you guys, be suprised................ But What The Hell Is It? LMAO! I can see I'm about to embarrass myself! ;)

[tlranger]

Alrighty you guys, be suprised................ But What The Hell Is It? LMAO! I can see I'm about to embarrass myself! ;)

Class gets out, time to fire up.

[OMB]

Alrighty you guys, be suprised................ But What The Hell Is It? LMAO! I can see I'm about to embarrass myself! ;)


You gotta get out more Mama! 420 refer's to, (supposedly) the LA police call for a Marijuana violation....at least that's my understanding. Then it became a street slang to refer to pot.
IE:...."C'mon catbud's, it's 420", let's get medicated. :jointsmile:

[tlranger]

Class gets out, time to fire up.

Forgot you were the one going after that gpa.

[catbuds]

Hey! West coast slang takes a while getting to the east coast, & sometimes it never does! Some very famous west coast pot NEVER made it here at all. I've only recently seen reference to 420 here on the internet. So don't pick on me boys, or I'll send you to your rooms! LOL! It may have even more to do with being WAY out in the boonies than being east coast. EVERYTHING is slower getting here. When I was young, we were always more than a year behind Ca with fashion trends, so this backwoods, redneck county is the slow boat to China!
-- So Chromo, did she just call you on it, or did you actually get in trouble? :stoned:

[Chromophore]

We got busted and expelled. Me only for two days because the stash wasn't mine. Cops gave us the scare routine but only the guy holding was prosecuted. The mistake is that the dumb stoner friend of mine said "420 at the south bus ramp!" as we were heading out of class and the teach shadowed us there. Fortunately I was a good student and was generally liked by the teachers, so they slapped my wrist. My friend was a smart-ass slacker and they made an example of him. The following year I was expelled for a week for breaking into the school at night and rescuing 100 goldfish that had been purchased for fund-raising event. They were going to do goldfish swallowing for money. Being a white suburban rebel with few real causes and an ardent animal lover, I knew what I must do, and pay the consequences. My father nearly disowned me over that one.

[Shovelhandle]

I dunno Cat. 420 is older than dirt. Like 1971. It's been 420 everywhere for almost 45 years now. Easyrider and High Times were must reads back in the early 70s and they were hip to 420. NORML started back then too. "Doncha gotcha culcha wicha?"

[catbuds]

I'd have done the same thing for the fish, but my dad is the one who encouraged me to be an animal lover from birth, so he probably would have slipped me a $100.oo bill! :)
-- the worst trouble I got into (I was always in trouble!) Was when me & 2 of my guy buddies tied our math teacher to a chair & hung her out the second story window. I had a broken ankle so they held her down & tied her to the chair, but being the best at knots, I tied the long thick rope to the chair, made sure it would stay ballanced & keep her upright, then the 3 of us lowered her out the window. Hell, she was only 2' off the ground! You'd have thought we tried to kill her if you'd seen the principals reaction! She had the reputation of being the meanest teacher in the school for over 20 yrs. She became a lot nicer to everybody after that! LOL! (guess you can figure I had the reputation for being the meanest KID in school! ) Yeah, I was a little off the wall with my practical jokes back then. Yeah... I thought Gallagher was a pussy who could have learned a few things from me. I am why I never had kids! If I'd had one just like me, I would have KILLED it! ;)

[catbuds]

I dunno Cat. 420 is older than dirt. Like 1971. It's been 420 everywhere for almost 45 years now. Easyrider and High Times were must reads back in the early 70s and they were hip to 420. NORML started back then too. "Doncha gotcha culcha wicha?"

Guess I never paid it any mind untill Rangers post about the rt 420 sign & then the banner add at the top of the page here. Then I finally wanted to know what the hell it was!.......... BTW, what the hell is a culcha??? (here we go again! LOL!) ;) ;) ;)

[Burnt Toast]

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