New Florida gun law

[JSTA]

Have any of you heard about this law? Here's a link to a story. New Gun Law (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4415135.stm) I find it to be a ridiculous law. People are gonna be whipping guns out left and right. I'm against this, I freakin HATE guns.

[2600]

Have any of you heard about this law? Here's a link to a story. New Gun Law (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4415135.stm) I find it to be a ridiculous law. People are gonna be whipping guns out left and right. I'm against this, I freakin HATE guns.


"But until now, courts insisted that anyone confronted in a public place should first try to run away." (article)

So lets say I am a 65 year old retired woman, stopping off at a Boca VIsta ATM on the way to my biweekly bingo. I put the cash in my purse, next to my gun (which I am licensed and trained to use). I am confronted with a local street thug holding a large knife. He's young, well built, and looks like he can run faster than me...

He tells me he's "going to kill me", and to give him the cash. So when I reach into my purse you would prefer I:

A) Pull out the cash, give it to him, and just hope that he doesn't kill me so I can't identify him later.

B) Run, as best I can, with my arthritic left knee and sandals (as florida law previously required).

C) Pull out the gun, instead of the cash, and waste the maggot (as Florida law now allows).

But props on educating yourself on gun laws. On a related note, in Texas, if you decide to take someone else's stuff, instead of working for your own, know you can be wasted without posing an immediate threat. Lethal force can be used even if there is simply no reasonable chance of recovering the property.

[Etrain]

Wow...

[JSTA]

Well, there are responsible gun owners all over the place. I'm aware that Canada has a ridiculously low amount of gun-related murders, but actually have more gun owners. I just think people will be using the "I was just defending myself" excuse way more often, and it will be satisfactory to the courts.

[NowhereMan]

i ask you this
what if he wants to fuck you and your
mother/brother/sister/ grandma or KIDS in the ass?
would you want a gun then,?
or would you want to except it hope they catch him later and send him to jial?
THERE ARE SICK FUCKERS OUT THERE wiating for you
that aint paraniod thats a FACT of LIFE

yaw who complian about guns being out there should really think about how long it takes a cop to get to your house if called,IF CALLED i say,and what do they do when they get there.?
shit man i stay armed and LAW or no LAW i will remian armed.
nobody coming in my house and doing anything to anyone without me giving them a dose of lead pioson if i get the chance to do so.

crawl in my window you'll have this as your last view of life

[Torog]

Have any of you heard about this law? Here's a link to a story. New Gun Law (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4415135.stm) I find it to be a ridiculous law. People are gonna be whipping guns out left and right. I'm against this, I freakin HATE guns.
Howdy JSTA,

Any Texan or Southerner,or folks in the western States,who hate guns..ain't no Texan or Southerner..are you one of them thar transplanted yankees ?

I think it's pretty obvious,that criminals don't respect the law,but they do respect a bullet..that they can't out-run..you may choose to be certain prey for criminals..but I choose not to..Houston,is a liberal city..full of emasculated males,such as yourself..just because you choose to be a victim..doesn't mean that the rest of us,want to be victims.

The right to self-defense,is an inalienable right..I will never surrender that right..especially for daggum political-correctness.

Have a good one ...

[GHoSToKeR]

It's more likely that somebody in your household will be injured by your gun, than you needing to use it on somebody else.

[koshea]

It's more likely that somebody in your household will be injured by your gun, than you needing to use it on somebody else.

whered you hear that? im guessing the governments gun saftey program..just like that one commercial saying the girl died from taking one pill of exctacy

p.s. i dont have a gun, but im for them, shit, OK Corral here we come i dont give a fuck, shoot em' up, use your rights to defend yourself if somones attacking or thieving

[Mojavpa]

Its a bad idea. Anyway, what constitutes a threat? People will start gunning down their "attackers" and killing them, and there would be no way to tell how much a threat the attacker posed. Maybe he looked at someone the wrong way, and instead of turning away they shoot him. Some people are going to use this law as an excuse to kill whoever they want. And with any gun battle that may break out between two people, some bystanders will be caught in the middle.

Even if the majority of people are responsible gun owners, a lot of people will needlessly die under this law, and as ghosttoker said most of them will be living in your household.

[JSTA]

Actually Torog, I'm born and raised in Oklahoma. I'm out of here in 2 months though when I go to college (OU). I'm sure you'll eat me alive on that one considering how hostile you Texans are to us Okies.
But anyway, back to the issues. I think our society lives in fear, this being the same fear that makes us think we need guns. How many times have you ever been robbed in your life where you needed a gun to defend yourself? It just seems to me that by letting people defend themselves legally with guns, they're just making the State's gun problems a whole lot worse. I don't care if I'm a fake "southerner" or not in your eyes. It's my opinion. You have yours, I have mine.

[Gumby]

I know that I was born and raised in Florida and have lived here all my life and know personally that I'm not waiting in line to get a gun nor are all my friends. So, ya there is a new law here but it's going to be the same as if they made pot legal. Everyone that had a gun is still going to and everyone that didn't probably still won't... same with pot legalizing it doesn't mean everyone is gonna do it.

[JSTA]

I think Mojavpa said it the best. This law will be abused by people, which will end up costing others their lives. That's all I'm worried about here. There's no denying that people like Torog and Nowhereman probably know how to handle a gun lol, but do you think everyone in our society today is as experienced or as willing to learn about safety as you guys are?

[turborunner03t]

Howdy JSTA,

Any Texan or Southerner,or folks in the western States,who hate guns..ain't no Texan or Southerner..are you one of them thar transplanted yankees ?

I think it's pretty obvious,that criminals don't respect the law,but they do respect a bullet..that they can't out-run..you may choose to be certain prey for criminals..but I choose not to..Houston,is a liberal city..full of emasculated males,such as yourself..just because you choose to be a victim..doesn't mean that the rest of us,want to be victims.

The right to self-defense,is an inalienable right..I will never surrender that right..especially for daggum political-correctness.

Have a good one ...

I'm a transplanted yankee and I want them gun laws here in AL too!BANG BANG BANG!

[JSTA]

Oh, and Torog, I don't hate guns, I hate people who abuse guns. ^^^^^^lol

[JSTA]

I was rollin when I started this thread, so the "I HATE GUNS" comment was a little extreme. I was just feeling the love for my fellow humans :)

[NowhereMan]

I think Mojavpa said it the best. This law will be abused by people, which will end up costing others their lives. That's all I'm worried about here. There's no denying that people like Torog and Nowhereman probably know how to handle a gun lol, but do you think everyone in our society today is as experienced or as willing to learn about safety as you guys are?

ty for that vote of confindence,
guns are needed in america ,thats a fact.
to me they are what makes us have what freedom we do have.
i dont cliam to want everybody to have one,HELL NO and im clueless on who should decide who gets one,but i know i aint giving mine up for anyone or anything if i did get one taken by a passel of jackbooted feds or some shit ,id be obtaining one to replace it,ive had a gun since i was like 10 or so,there was a rack of them on the wall in my dads bedroom that i had use of ,trusted with,shotguns & rifles mostly.but i liked pistols :D
i grew up with them and know they are a deadly tool and nothing else,
do i want some 16 yr old gang banger to have a gun,no way.
do i want one if he decides to take my car and shoot me in the head to get in some gang,you dam right,
i dont want take nobody on in some big ass debate about it ,i wont be changed on the matter,and vise versa just would like to here some reasons why i should not be able to have one to defend my home with,?
gun controll does not work except for the criminals it makes them powerfull and fills their pockets with cash.


firm believer in leave me the fuck alone as i leave you the fuck alone.

ps recommend a song."whiskey for my friends beer for my horses".that says it all right there,peace

[sykobabble]

nope.just bragging rites

[Etrain]

"Beer for my horses" Song is hilarious.

[Hydrizzle]

Maybe people in Florida will be less likely to fuck with random people. Let it be known that if you fuck with random people, you run the risk of being shot.

[Torog]

Actually Torog, I'm born and raised in Oklahoma. I'm out of here in 2 months though when I go to college (OU). I'm sure you'll eat me alive on that one considering how hostile you Texans are to us Okies.
But anyway, back to the issues. I think our society lives in fear, this being the same fear that makes us think we need guns. How many times have you ever been robbed in your life where you needed a gun to defend yourself? It just seems to me that by letting people defend themselves legally with guns, they're just making the State's gun problems a whole lot worse. I don't care if I'm a fake "southerner" or not in your eyes. It's my opinion. You have yours, I have mine.
Howdy JSTA,

One of my best friend's is an Okie..and whenever he does something dumb or stupid,which is fairly often,I chalk it up to him being an Okie..lol..(not that there's anything wrong with that..lol).

You may live in fear,but I don't,because I'm armed and dangerous..you have chosen to live in fear,and are totally reliant on others,to provide for your safety..ever hear the phrase "Call 911...and die" ?

I was robbed by 3 black guys in a highschool library..they were armed with knives..I had nothing,because I was obeying the rules and foolishly thought that others would too. After that,I was never unarmed again,those were the days,when ya could bring a rifle to school,as long as you kept yer car or truck,locked up. I began keeping a 10 inch huntin knife in my locker after that and a challenge was issued by the white guys on the football team to the blacks..and they backed down..and never bothered me again. I refuse to be a victim,ever again..and I refuse to shoulder the mantle of victim-hood,that liberals cherish.

Have a good one...

[GHoSToKeR]

Maybe I shouldn't be talkin about guns, but I can say one thing. Guns are illegal on the island I live in. Even the police don't carry guns. Did you hear that? EVEN THE POLICE DONT CARRY GUNS. And I havent heard of anybody being shot here since I was born or before I was born, for that matter. So gun control must work. Period.

I think the problem is that your country has developed in to a 'gun culture', so now guns ARE needed in your country for your own protection. In this country guns are illegal and are extremely rare, so guns arent needed to protect us. I know which society I would rather live in and im lucky Im living here. Because whichever way you look at it, you have to admit that living in a society where even the police hardly carry guns is alot safer than living in a country where everyone carries a gun.

[NowhereMan]

Maybe I shouldn't be talkin about guns, but I can say one thing. Guns are illegal on the island I live in. Even the police don't carry guns. Did you hear that? EVEN THE POLICE DONT CARRY GUNS. And I havent heard of anybody being shot here since I was born or before I was born, for that matter. So gun control must work. Period.

I think the problem is that your country has developed in to a 'gun culture', so now guns ARE needed in your country for your own protection. In this country guns are illegal and are extremely rare, so guns arent needed to protect us. I know which society I would rather live in and im lucky Im living here. Because whichever way you look at it, you have to admit that living in a society where even the police hardly carry guns is alot safer than living in a country where everyone carries a gun.


so in your secluded lil safe world you want to say My guns are bad to exist becuase YOU dont need them,controll works?? BULLSHIT to that
it works for the criminals,
and just how many people on this island?

im happy for you but just tells me YOU have no clue what is out HERE in the world waiting on you

someone posted this pick
seems apropriate when thinking about anti gun folks,

[GHoSToKeR]

Hey dude, that's not what I was saying at all.. I haven't been awake for very long so my heads a little groggy.. I probably didn't make much sense.

What i'm trying to say is that gun control works over here because we decided to take that route and stick to it. So now hardly any criminals carry guns and hardly any police carry guns. This proves that, for us, gun control has worked. (Im talking about the whole of the UK, not just the island I live on).

I understand that gun control in the US wouldnt work because that would mean completely changing around your society. Your country has developed in to a nation that has guns and tolerates them, so to turn back on that now would do more harm than good. So I agree that in your country you should be allowed a gun to protect yourself. However I dont agree that people in the UK should be allowed guns to protect themselves because guns are rare.

Im not saying that my country is better than yours or any of that bullshit. Im just saying that gun control works here, but I understand that it might not work in the US because you have already allowed guns to become a part of your society. Im also saying that personally, I would prefer to work and live in a country that didnt have guns as a part of their society as opposed to one that did. By this I mean I would rather live somewhere where I personally didn't need a gun, whereas you might prefer to live somewhere where you did need a gun, or were at least be allowed one.

I didnt mean to offend you, dude.. I hope this has cleared it up.

[Dick Justice]

Hey now, I NEED my gun. Cause Lord knows, I'm fending off criminals left and right, 24-7, and my house is broken into at least seven times a day!!

[hipEstoner]

hell yhea,, i live in florida 5 months out of the year on an island in the gulf coast

[sawleaf]

Saying this law is going to increase deaths and violence is just ridiculous. Remember what everyone was saying when the Assault Weapons Ban was lifted? All the anti-gun people were acting like it was the end of the world and that there were going to be firefights all over the streets because everyone could get "assault weapons". :rolleyes:

[JSTA]

People will abuse this new law, there's just no denying that. Like I said before, I'm in no way against having a gun in your house to defend yourself, but that's just not me. Just think, people are going to be getting off because now they're just "defending" themself.

[pisshead]

guns are dozens of times more likely to be used for protection than to harm someone. people who want guns to be illegal are just asking to be a slave. the government or police aren't going to save you. responsible gun owners far out number criminals.

http://www.gunowners.org/skeptic.htm

How much of your current opinion regarding guns is based on fact rather than feeling? And are the facts as you know them actually true, or are they merely "spin" being promoted by those holding anti-gun positions? Is there a reason why you rarely hear about the "good" uses of guns? In this comprehensive guide, information is presented that might make you re-examine what you've always "known" about guns in society.

http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

1. Highlights



* Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every yearâ??or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2
* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"â??a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.3
* Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.4
* Anti-gun journal pronounces the failure of the Brady law. One of the nationâ??s leading anti-gun medical publications, the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that the Brady registration law has failed to reduce murder rates. In August 2000, JAMA reported that states implementing waiting periods and background checks did "not [experience] reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates."5
* Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. Thatâ??s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.6
* More guns, less crime. In the decade of the 1990s, the number of guns in this country increased by roughly 40 millionâ??even while the murder rate decreased by almost 40% percent.7 Accidental gun deaths in the home decreased by almost 40 percent as well.8
* CDC admits there is no evidence that gun control reduces crime. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has long been criticized for propagating questionable studies which gun control organizations have used in defense of their cause. But after analyzing 51 studies in 2003, the CDC concluded that the "evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these [firearms] laws."9
* Gun shows are NOT a primary source of illegal guns for criminals. According to two government studies, the National Institute of Justice reported in 1997 that "less than two percent [of criminals] reported obtaining [firearms] from a gun show."10 And the Bureau of Justice Statistics revealed in 2001 that less than one percent of firearm offenders acquired their weapons at gun shows.11
* Several polls show that Americans are very pro-gun. Several scientific polls indicate that the right to keep and bear arms is still reveredâ??and gun control disdainedâ??by a majority of Americans today. To mention just a few recent polls:
* In 2002, an ABC News poll found that almost three-fourths of the American public believe that the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of "individuals" to own guns.12
* Zogby pollsters found that by a more than 3 to 1 margin, Americans support punishing "criminals who use a gun in the commission of a crime" over legislation to "ban handguns."13
* A Research 2000 poll found that 85% of Americans would find it appropriate for a principal or teacher to use "a gun at school to defend the lives of students" to stop a school massacre.14
* A study claiming "guns are three times more likely to kill you than help you" is a total fraud. Even using the low figures from the Clinton Justice Department, firearms are used almost 50 times more often to save life than to take life.15 More importantly, however, the figure claiming one is three times more likely to be killed by oneâ??s own gun is a total lie:
* Researcher Don Kates reveals that all available data now indicates that the "home gun homicide victims were killed using guns [i]not kept in the victim's home."16
* In other words, the victims were NOT murdered with their own guns! They were killed "by intruders who brought their own guns to the victim's household."17
* Gun-free England not such a utopia after all. According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.18 And according to a United Nations study, British citizens are more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States. The 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.19 that's just the first section.


there was a time when kids knew how to use guns and respected them...they didn't grow up hearing how bad and evil they were and to stay away, they were taught how to use them and when to use them...kids used to bring guns to school...i'm not talking about small podunk towns either...that's impossible nowadays because of all the kids on psychotropic drugs and those that believe the anti-gun propaganda.

[JSTA]

I'm not buying into the anti-gun propaganda. I firmly believe that the problem here in America is lack of gun knowledge and the media, conservative or liberal. I remember turning the tv on on Christmas eve, and hearing about numerous murders on the news. It's Christmas eve for christ's sake.

I brought this gun issue up because right before I heard about this law, I had just watched Bowling for Columbine for the first time. Now don't get me wrong, I'm in no way a Micheal Moore fanboy, but he brings up a good point in that movie: Why does America have so many more gun deaths per year then the other free world countries? It's just mind boggling to think about the number of gun related deaths in places like, Canada, Germany, the U.K., Japan etc. Compare those numbers to the number of gun related deaths we have. It's crazy.

[GTC21]

I watched a program on TV last night called 'lethal attraction'. It was about guns in America. The presenter was British (Ross Kemp) and he was asking the American people if they thought their gun laws were too relaxed, none of them said yes. I actually agreed with the things they were saying about why they should be allowed to carry guns. One man said "It's better to have a gun and never need it than to be in a situation where you need a gun but don't have one". Another man (from Texas) said that it's more peaceful where he lives because people own guns, there is less chance of people messing with each other because they know the consequences. I agree with this. You'd have to be crazy to break into someone's house or mug them in the street in America, especially Texas. Making gun laws more strict in America would be the dumbest thing ever. All that would do is dismarm law abiding citizens leaving them defensless against rapists/theives/murderers and leave criminals still armed and dangerous. Do you think criminals would hand their guns in to one of those amnesty things? Not likely. Guns are a huge part of America, it's part of their culture and it will never change.
And you can't really compare gun laws in America to the laws in Britain. They're two totally different places. Gun control works in Britian. Yes there are guns on the street but they're not all over the place and shootings are mostly gang/drug related. I've never even seen a real gun and I don't know anyone who has. The nearest shootings to where I live occur in the outskirts of the large city I live near, which is about 10 - 15 miles away.

[JSTA]

I don't think they should be stricter, but then again they shouldn't be more relaxed lol.

[Torog]

I watched a program on TV last night called 'lethal attraction'. It was about guns in America. The presenter was British (Ross Kemp) and he was asking the American people if they thought their gun laws were too relaxed, none of them said yes. I actually agreed with the things they were saying about why they should be allowed to carry guns. One man said "It's better to have a gun and never need it than to be in a situation where you need a gun but don't have one". Another man (from Texas) said that it's more peaceful where he lives because people own guns, there is less chance of people messing with each other because they know the consequences. I agree with this. You'd have to be crazy to break into someone's house or mug them in the street in America, especially Texas. Making gun laws more strict in America would be the dumbest thing ever. All that would do is dismarm law abiding citizens leaving them defensless against rapists/theives/murderers and leave criminals still armed and dangerous. Do you think criminals would hand their guns in to one of those amnesty things? Not likely. Guns are a huge part of America, it's part of their culture and it will never change.
And you can't really compare gun laws in America to the laws in Britain. They're two totally different places. Gun control works in Britian. Yes there are guns on the street but they're not all over the place and shootings are mostly gang/drug related. I've never even seen a real gun and I don't know anyone who has. The nearest shootings to where I live occur in the outskirts of the large city I live near, which is about 10 - 15 miles away.
Howdy GTC21,

Dang..I feel sorry for you man..you ain't never seen a gun ? As in,never owned or handled a gun ?

Texans usually git their first gun,starting around 8-10 years old,my first gun was a 22 caliber,bolt-action and I got my deer huntin rifle,a 30-30 Winchester lever-action,when I was 11,got my first deer,that year too. When I was 12,I got me a job so I could git me a semi-auto 22,with a scope..when I started Highschool,I used to take it with me in my Uncle's car,and he'd bring his 22 with him too,and we'd go frog and turtle huntin,down on my family farm...ahhh...the good ol days..dang it ! Dang political correctness and city-slickers afraid of guns !:mad:

An armed society..is a polite society..and goverments should fear the people and their right to alter or abolish their goverment..not fear the goverment.

When you give up your inalienable right to self-defense with a gun..there's no reason for the goverment to fear it's citizenry,any longer..and criminals can prey upon the dis-armed,at will . That's pretty daggum sad.

Have a good one....

[XTC]

America is full of really paranoid people. People who just assume shoot you for standing in their front lawn. How is the law going to help ANYONE? I am glad that I don't live in FL, or anywhere near FL, it is a very scary state now. I have a suggestion. Let's saw off Florida and let the state float into the Ocean. That way, no one from another state will get shot for simply standing in the wrong lawn!

I love American's point of view. Afraid of a gun? Buy a gun! We need more Gun control!

[Button Basher]

Howdy GTC21,

Dang..I feel sorry for you man..you ain't never seen a gun ? As in,never owned or handled a gun ?

Texans usually git their first gun,starting around 8-10 years old,my first gun was a 22 caliber,bolt-action and I got my deer huntin rifle,a 30-30 Winchester lever-action,when I was 11,got my first deer,that year too. When I was 12,I got me a job so I could git me a semi-auto 22,with a scope..when I started Highschool,I used to take it with me in my Uncle's car,and he'd bring his 22 with him too,and we'd go frog and turtle huntin,down on my family farm...ahhh...the good ol days..dang it ! Dang political correctness and city-slickers afraid of guns !:mad:

An armed society..is a polite society..and goverments should fear the people and their right to alter or abolish their goverment..not fear the goverment.

When you give up your inalienable right to self-defense with a gun..there's no reason for the goverment to fear it's citizenry,any longer..and criminals can prey upon the dis-armed,at will . That's pretty daggum sad.

Have a good one....

Yo Torog, I know I immaturely ripped on you last time this matter came up, so i'll try to be as constructive as possible.

For someone that's never been to our socialist country Torog, you sure know what we need.

I've never seen or handled a gun also, and am glad, why do I need to? I have zero interest in weapons of death, is a boy made a man from handling a weapon that kills with zero effort required?

The fact is, we don't need guns and probably never will (what are we supposed to hunt here? rabbits?) When there's a shooting in the paper, it's a big deal because (as JST said) it's pretty rare nowadays for guns to be used outside of gang or drug related crime. I'm glad how guns are outlawed in this country and, with the increase of juvenile delinquent crime, glad there's been no suggestion to change otherwise. More guns means more criminals with guns. For someone brought up in a country that relishes weapons, you've not much right to contradict ours on such a matter, particularly when you've never experienced our culture first hand. Noone complains they want a gun and can't get one. Noone needs one. It's very simple logic.

I apologise for my behaviour last time this discussion arose, but I take offence at gung-ho, ammo crazy Americans like yourself thinking they know what this country needs. And the last thing it DOES in fact need, is guns.

[amsterdam]

the gun laws will never be changed.

[sawleaf]

America is full of really paranoid people. People who just assume shoot you for standing in their front lawn. How is the law going to help ANYONE? I am glad that I don't live in FL, or anywhere near FL, it is a very scary state now. I have a suggestion. Let's saw off Florida and let the state float into the Ocean. That way, no one from another state will get shot for simply standing in the wrong lawn!

I love American's point of view. Afraid of a gun? Buy a gun! We need more Gun control!

Actually Florida has much lower crime rates than a lot of other places in America that have strict gun control laws. I'd feel much safer in a well armed community than a disarmed one. :)

[amsterdam]

kaboom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1you are exactly right!!!



that guns deter crime is well known to many liberals,ecpecially those politicians and celebreties who make the loudest public noises in favor of gun control.these people routinely assert there is no advantage to owning guns.yet most of them have full time bodygaurds who follow them everywhere.the mayor of chicago is a huge anti-gun guy but would never step foot on the west side of chicago without his gun totting bodygaurds.

but the people who live in these areas face continuing danger and the mayor refuses to let them defend themselves.what hypocrites.

[amsterdam]

9 unelected supreme court judges will never be able to change the gun laws.the american people will never let that happen.

[JSTA]

I just don't see how you can feel safer in a well-armed community then a disarmed one. Look at the number of deaths by guns in the UK and look at the number we have. Now, if you're going by those numbers alone, that statement is ridiculous.

[Etrain]

Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. Thatâ??s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.6

Hey, it's not that I'm trying to argue, but that varies on location. I lived in some pretty rough neighborhoods in the bay/city and trust me...more kids get shot than die throughout the football season. It's no joke...they get killed everyday.

[amsterdam]

I just don't see how you can feel safer in a well-armed community then a disarmed one. Look at the number of deaths by guns in the UK and look at the number we have. Now, if you're going by those numbers alone, that statement is ridiculous.


what are you talking about??more people die in alcohol related car accidents than they do by guns.hypocracy maybe?

[JSTA]

lol, where did I even mention alcohol. It's the same issue with alcohol. It's the person that abuses their right to drink the alcohol, then they go drive and kill people. Well, I think people will abuse their right to defend themselves with this law, either that or put a twist on it or use it to get around the system. They will be abusing their right to own a gun, as does an alcoholic their right to drink.

Welp, that was my attempt to do something constructive with your hypocracy comment.

[sawleaf]

I just don't see how you can feel safer in a well-armed community then a disarmed one. Look at the number of deaths by guns in the UK and look at the number we have. Now, if you're going by those numbers alone, that statement is ridiculous.

It's very simple. People are very much more polite and less likely to fuck with others when they know people are armed, period. I think you are assuming that people who are armed are itching for a shootout and are trigger happy individuals, which is not the case. Even if you have some idiot criminal who is armed, he is definately going to think twice when in a well armed community. Criminals in general look for easy targets. In the US, areas with high crime rates almost always have very strict gun control laws. Areas with less gun laws are just the opposite and have much lower crime rates. What works in your country does not work here.

[amsterdam]

you didnt mention alcohol at all,i was just saying that it seems alot of yahoos around here seem to think we have a unbelievable amount of gun related crime and that kids kill themselves all the time and blah,blah,blah.

more kids drown in the bath tub every year than are killed by guns.FACT.

states with stricter gun laws usually have a higher crime rate,states that allow conceal and carry for example almost always have a lower crime rate.wierd how that works isnt it.

[amsterdam]

i know for a fact you would think twice about breaking into someones house in alabama.

why?bcause there is a great chance your ass is gonna get shot.

[amsterdam]

i bet the crime rate drops over the next ten years,

[sawleaf]

Jesus Tapdancing Crist! this is by far one of the stupidest laws i have ever heard of,now i agree with people being able to own guns and use them for hunting or sport shooting but thats not the case with this law, this law (to the best of my knowledge) allows people who feel that "bodily harm" could happen to them are able to now use deadly force...so lets do a little play.

Attacker: I'm gonna beat the shit out of you!

Attackie's gun: Bang

so there it is, you dont wanna fight like a man you can just shoot them :D yay for the "men" who have to use guns


Oh I see you want things more fair for criminals. Only idiots fight fair. No criminal is going to look for a fair fight, so why shouldn't you use what advantage you have? I see this law actually lowering the crime rate.

[amsterdam]

for sure it will lower it!!

as for fighting fair,fuck that!

[JSTA]

Quit being so damn afraid of people attacking you. You know what I find funny, Canadians feel safe enough that they leave their doors unlocked. I'm sure not all do, but how many times have you left your doors unlocked knowing someone could walk in any second. Fear runs this damn country.
I think the issue here is the acceptance of violence in our society. Go to a rated R movie, the violence in some of those movies are insane. But you'll be hella lucky to get any tit action. Violence sells in this country. I made a point earlier about how bad the media is in showing gun related deaths all the time, it's because nobody would watch if it was just a bunch of people doing good things for their community all day. I live in Houston and all I see is violence in the new, and of course there's no stories of people doing good stuff in Houston now is there?
It's obvious it's the American society that cause people to think they need a gun to defend themselves. Now, I'm all for the right to keep a gun in your house, but people in this country go to the extreme. What the hell would I need to carry a gun around for anyway? If the unfortunate event happens that I get mugged, I'm giving my shit up. But if I whip out a gun, the attacker will feel threatened, thus, he'll be violent towards me. Now, if you're willing to put your life on the line for possessions, then feel free, as for me, my life is more important.

I'm gonna go smoke a bowl now, too much tension building up here. lol :)

[amsterdam]

you wouldnt have to give up your shit if you had a gun would you?

my mother lives in Galveston and carries a small derringer every day.it is an equalizer.

[sawleaf]

For a lot of people the issue of arming themselves is not out of fear at all, but it's an issue of being prepared. I don't carry a firearm, but I do have a few in the house just incase anything does happen. I hope nothing ever does happen, but I'd much rather be prepared than not. If you assume that a criminal is just going to let you go after mugging you or not hurt you if you give them what they want, then you really need to talk to some mugging victims or get your head checked. You may not need to carry a firearm and I certainly don't, but we have no right to make that call for others or say how a person can or cannot choose to defend themselves.

[amsterdam]

For a lot of people the issue of arming themselves is not out of fear at all, but it's an issue of being prepared. I don't carry a firearm, but I do have a few in the house just incase anything does happen. I hope nothing ever does happen, but I'd much rather be prepared than not. If you assume that a criminal is just going to let you go after mugging you or not hurt you if you give them what they want, then you really need to talk to some mugging victims or get your head checked. You may not need to carry a firearm and I certainly don't, but we have no right to make that call for others or say how a person can or cannot choose to defend themselves.


well put sawleaf.i agree 100%

[Button Basher]

My bro told me a cool story yesterday that a workmate told him:

His friend (person who told the story) was waiting at a bus stop late when a group of 6 townie inbreds (3 blokes, 3 "girls") came and started asking him about who he was, how old he was, where he lived, etc. Suddenly the one doing the talking came close to him all like "gimme your money, gimme your money mate, what? Gimme your money".
My bro's mate looked at him calmly and said "seriously mate, don't bother".
"what, what the fuck you on about? gimme your wallet!"
"I've got a knife."
Pikey stares at him for a couple seconds and just says "yeah, safe mate, safe." and they all walk off.

My bro's friend didn't have a knife for shit but they still shat bricks. It just shows the comparison between the UK and US. The most dangerous thing you can be confronted with here in the majority of muggings is a knife. In America, it's a gun. Consider our much lower rate of gun-related deaths and murders and you'll find it's not really that hard to comprehend.

Anyone that wants to make a government conspiracy theory out of it is just a dumbarse. :D

[amsterdam]

My bro told me a cool story yesterday that a workmate told him:

His friend (person who told the story) was waiting at a bus stop late when a group of 6 townie inbreds (3 blokes, 3 "girls") came and started asking him about who he was, how old he was, where he lived, etc. Suddenly the one doing the talking came close to him all like "gimme your money, gimme your money mate, what? Gimme your money".
My bro's mate looked at him calmly and said "seriously mate, don't bother".
"what, what the fuck you on about? gimme your wallet!"
"I've got a knife."
Pikey stares at him for a couple seconds and just says "yeah, safe mate, safe." and they all walk off.

My bro's friend didn't have a knife for shit but they still shat bricks. It just shows the comparison between the UK and US. The most dangerous thing you can be confronted with here in the majority of muggings is a knife. In America, it's a gun. Consider our much lower rate of gun-related deaths and murders and you'll find it's not really that hard to comprehend.

Anyone that wants to make a government conspiracy theory out of it is just a dumbarse. :D


consider that we have millions and millions more people than england.if we had the same amount of people our crime rates would not be much different.

[sawleaf]

Consider your friends lucky that those fools didn't call his bluff and pull out a blade of their own. That's why I don't carry a firearm. You don't bluff in situations like that and you most definately don't pull out a firearm to scare people. I just don't want to put myself in a situation where I would be forced to draw down on someone again. I have had to before and believe me, it is not fun for either person. Pepper spray is what I carry now, but would you believe that the laws are so ridiculous in the US that in most high crime areas pepper spray and stun guns are illegal to carry also!!!? It's great that gun control works in your country, but the US was founded by men with guns and our history was forged with the firearm. Disarming people here has a proven record of increasing crime. :)

[JSTA]

^^Which is messed up. There's just something about this place that people find it okay to carry weapons around with them. That scares me.

[amsterdam]

thats the point,IT SHOULD SCARE YOU!

[JSTA]

BUT I'M NOT CARRYIN A DAMN GUN AROUND BECAUSE OF IT!!!!! (i like caps too)

It scares me that people think they need to carry guns around to be safe. That's the point I was tryin to make. Not that there is some guy in a hoodie waitin to mug me. <--------That's happens to me all the time btw. :cool:

[sawleaf]

Nobody is asking you to carry a firearm. I choose not too, but I don't have the right to make choices for others. :)

[Button Basher]

consider that we have millions and millions more people than england.if we had the same amount of people our crime rates would not be much different.

Perhaps. It's an interesting notion, but one that can't really be proven.

[GHoSToKeR]

amsterdam...... do you understand math at all? If you look at the percentages of people who have been attacked/threatened by a gun in America compared to the UK, you'll find that in the UK it is alot lower. The population has no bearing on that number.

[NowhereMan]

Jesus Tapdancing Crist! this is by far one of the stupidest laws i have ever heard of,now i agree with people being able to own guns and use them for hunting or sport shooting but thats not the case with this law, this law (to the best of my knowledge) allows people who feel that "bodily harm" could happen to them are able to now use deadly force...so lets do a little play.

Attacker: I'm gonna beat the shit out of you!

Attackie's gun: Bang

so there it is, you dont wanna fight like a man you can just shoot them :D yay for the "men" who have to use guns


i must say your not so bright.
you think your tough right,can take a asskicking if you lose in your manly contest
your just the idiot type i need a gun for,you'd throw me down and stomp me over some bullshit,had i not a gun to blow out your brains with when you tried
fight like a man,wtf?is that shit,u seen too much tv,
this fair fight shit,hahaha,come back in 20 yrs and tells us about it.

you tell me what would be fair about a 250 lb dude and a skinny lil 125 lb dude fighting,unless he the lil dude is a 'artist of pain" the lil dude is outnumbered one to one,your average "man' agianst some no necked raging bull type,
you expect a person to get beat the hell out of so people can say what?
fuck them and you if ya think im less a man becuase id shoot ya fool ass if ya fucked with me
i'll explian in detail
a kick in the stomach could kill me,(bad ulcers)
a punch in the face could cripple me,(my neck's been hurt in a wreck along with my back) i hit the ground i may not get up
so yes,you go to kick my ass,i would in fact give ya lead poisoning
and it aint got a dam thing to do with being a man
its called survival
i'd bet on two things about you
your a pretty big feller (over 200 lb around 6 ft,?)
and ya never been in a real fight where your life was at stake

good luck
l

[Torog]

i must say your not so bright.
you think your tough right,can take a asskicking if you lose in your manly contest
your just the idiot type i need a gun for,you'd throw me down and stomp me over some bullshit,had i not a gun to blow out your brains with when you tried
fight like a man,wtf?is that shit,u seen too much tv,
this fair fight shit,hahaha,come back in 20 yrs and tells us about it.

you tell me what would be fair about a 250 lb dude and a skinny lil 125 lb dude fighting,unless he the lil dude is a 'artist of pain" the lil dude is outnumbered one to one,your average "man' agianst some no necked raging bull type,
you expect a person to get beat the hell out of so people can say what?
fuck them and you if ya think im less a man becuase id shoot ya fool ass if ya fucked with me
i'll explian in detail
a kick in the stomach could kill me,(bad ulcers)
a punch in the face could cripple me,(my neck's been hurt in a wreck along with my back) i hit the ground i may not get up
so yes,you go to kick my ass,i would in fact give ya lead poisoning
and it aint got a dam thing to do with being a man
its called survival
i'd bet on two things about you
your a pretty big feller (over 200 lb around 6 ft,?)
and ya never been in a real fight where your life was at stake

good luck
l
Howdy NWM,

We're in the same boat..I can't risk trying to fight fair anymore,because of my bad back..if I was a little bit richer,I'd git my ccw permit. Even though,most of the time,I have little to fear around here,but if I went to the D/FW metroplex..I'd want to be armed ..I tell you what ! There ain't no reasoning to be done with junkies and gang-bangers !

Hav a good one !