RE: My First Grow - want to do it right, but dont want to buy more than i need either

[potluck]

hey everyone,
i have already read a few posts and have not found answers to all my questions but am impressed with the responses everyone has gave, very positive and helpful.
anyway this will be be my very first grow, and was reading some stuff on a closet grow setup, but i am actually planning on using a bathroom.

Still a little confused with the lighting requirements, whether it is dependent on the total size of the room, or just the size of the table that contains the plants.

Well here are some the details of the room.
The bathroom i am considering using is in my basement, and has an external exhaust going out the wall to the side of my house (not a lot of foot traffic from the neighbor on that side either. note: thanks to Toronto builders, the other guys house is only about 5 f%$king feet away, thanks!
The bathroom is about 6' by 6' square, but also contains a shower diagonal across from the door, which opens inwards, which unfortunately will make it impossible to have a 4ft square table, might have to do a 2ft by 3ft so i can move around it.
will actually be a little awkward, but i thought since it already has an exhaust fan, and sink/shower for water, plus tile floor, those might be worth the trouble.
The exhaust fan has a 50CFM rating, and i am guess from looking at it on the outside has a 3" duct.

1. Is the light/lamp requirements based on just the grow table size or room size?
2. I am only looking at a table size max 3by3ft or lets just say for arguments sake 4by4', is a 400W HID/HPS sufficient, or should i go with a 100WHID/HPS lamp?
3. Will the 50CFM Exhaust fan be sufficient for a 4by 4ft grow? which i think can contain 10 plants, please correct me if i am wrong.
4. I just purchased 10 seeds, AK47 Sativas, which they recommend as a good choice for a newb. after reading up a little more on them after, i saw a warning on strong odor.
Will i need to get a Carbon Filter? and what size or power?
5. if i need a Carbon Filter, do i need an extra inline fan for that to?
6. The bathroom only has one outlet(with GFI), will that be enough to power all of the following? i could run an extension cable from another outlet in the next room, but would prefer to keep everything contained, but safty first, i dont want to overload the wiring and burn my house down either
-a 400W (or 1000W) Lamp
-plus ballist
-plus Oscillating Fan
-plus Carbon Filter (if i need it, not even sure if thats something that gets plugged in, forgive my ignorance)
-plus inline fan

And lastly, right beside the bathroom is a large closet, 6' by 5', however it is not along an exterior wall so i might have to figure out an ugly exhaust method to get it out. however the room does not have all the obstacles the bathroom has.
i initially thought the bathroom might be more more convenient because it has a sink/shower for water, as well as the shower floor is right there to help with water run off.
again i am totally new and not even sure if that stuff is a bonus or not worth the headache of the sink/shower/toilet obstacles.

given what i want to do, and the choice of either the Bathroom or the Large Closet, what do you think the best choice would be?
as for my budget, based on a another Closet Grow document i read, it sounded like a setup with a 400w Lamp solution could run around $500, although i would be willing to go a little higher if it gave me a more flexibility in increasing the amount of plants i could handle at a later time. $1000 would definitely be pushing my limit for now though.

Thanks in advance, and i appreciate your patience is reading my long post. i have been reading a lot, but it seems i just come up with more questions. and i do not know anyone personally with any experience in this. wanted to get a little more comfortable with the stuff before i hit the hydro store and get sold way more gear than i really need.
Jason

[potluck]

well surprised i never got any feedback.
did some more reading, and went with a 600W HID/HPS Lamp, and managed to squeeze a 2 by4 ft table into the bathroom after i removed the toilet. still might look at a Carbon Filter and Fan to help manage the odour & extra heat.
probably going to actually plant the seeds tomorrow. procrastinating a bit because i dont want to screw it up.

[potluck]

forgot to mention, the seeds i got are AK47 Feminized AutoFlower, and i understand that the will automatically flower based on age and not light cycle, but do i still keep a Veg and Bloom light cycle, or do i just go with one light cycle throughout the Veg & Bloom, like 20/4?
Thanks again in advance!
jason

[Poncho 'Milla]

1&2)You really shouldn't run less than 3000 lumens per sq. foot of grow space. A 400 watt HPS should run about 50,000 lumens, divided by 9 square feet gives you a little over 5000 so you're in the clear there. More important than how much light you buy is how much light is reaching the plant, so you may want to consider reflectors or side-lights to throw some light on the sides and lower branches.

3)For proper ventilation you'll want a fan that can circulate the air in your room more than once per minute. Assuming your room to be 6'x6'x8' you'll want a fan that can move more than 288 CFM, in addition to a standard oscillating fan to provide a make your babies bend a little and promote stem growth.

4)Carbon Filter is a must have, particularly with so little space between houses.

5)Buy a strong enough fan for your carbon filter that it can be the primary exhaust fan, and the only other fan you'll need will be the standard oscillating one.

6)Not an electrician, but my computer draws 750 watts so I feel like a 700 watt light and a fan shouldn't be pushing the limits of a single GFI outlet.

I've never tried an autoflower, but I'm given to understand that on the whole it will be a smaller plant. You may still find that 10 plants in a 4x4 space is rather tight. It can be done, but it requires a lot of shuffling and patience. If you use the bathroom I would consider dropping down to 6-8 plants or so to prevent overcrowding.

My inclination would be to put some sort of waterproof liner on the floor of the closet, set your table up in there, and walk the water in from the bathroom. At least it's a short walk =) First outdoor grow was nearly 3 acres from spigot to garden.

[potluck]

Hey man, thank you for the response!!
I ended up getting a 600Watt Light with a HID Ballast.
Also went with a 4" 176cfm Fan and Carbon Filter + my oscillating one.
So far no issues with the electricity.
Got 8 plants on the go, on a 2 by 4ft table.
Just getting into week 6 of the grow, and looks like 7 out of the 8 have finally started to pre-flower with small pistils shooting out of the calyx, the 8th i am not sure of, surprised it made it this far, its been dragging from day 1.
my main issue now is keeping the temperature down, it tends to float around 29c/84.2f at its peak. hopefully the slow growth has not been because of heat stress. i did get some CO2 Sheets which i heard help them cope a little more.
I am going to check out the AutoFlower forums, but since i am here, at what point should i switch from my MH Bulb to my HPS Bulb, and adjust the Light Schedule. The Pistils just started to shoot a few days ago.
The webpage from the seedbank i got my AK47 AutoFlower seeds suggest a 20/4 Light Schedule, but is not clear if that is throughout the whole grow.
anyway thanks again.

[potluck]

hey guys, just an update on my grow. almost into the 4th week of blooming, and started to notice some of the top leafs were getting a little burnt on the tips and curling up. i adjusted the height of the light. but not sure what else i can go. i am using the DNF supplements (Bloom A,B, Gold, Black Carb & Bloom Fortifier). using the recommended amounts in 3 Litres of water per plant (2.5 Gallon Pots with ProMix) on every 4th day. i am getting a little water runoff. the burning does not seem to be getting worse, just wondering if once a leaf is burnt if it will ever recover.
297403

anyway advice is appreciated.
jason

[d00g]

So what did you end up doing for your light cycle? Have you stayed with the same light cycle for the entire grow, or switch to 12/12 for blooming? I have read many people say each, and nobody has ever seemed to complain that they were wrong. Looks like whatever choice you made worked as well!

[growdemon]

cool setup, It appears from your pictures that the burn you are seeing is from nutrients, ease up on the plant food. every 4 days is a bit much IMO.
also if you setup your fan to blow right over the canopy aimed 1/2 way between your lights it will help to disburse the heat before it reaches your canopy and break it up a bit.
some times I will cut the tips off that start to burn, this hasn't done any harm. or just leave them.

[potluck]

cool setup, It appears from your pictures that the burn you are seeing is from nutrients, ease up on the plant food. every 4 days is a bit much IMO.
also if you setup your fan to blow right over the canopy aimed 1/2 way between your lights it will help to disburse the heat before it reaches your canopy and break it up a bit.
some times I will cut the tips off that start to burn, this hasn't done any harm. or just leave them.

Thanks dOOg and growdemon!
maybe i will try and water every 5th day, and adjust the nutrients to 75%.
I do have a oscillating fan (outside of the picture) that is blowing on the top of the plants plants, maybe will adjust to go a little bit higher.
And i have stayed with the 20/4 light schedule, you are right, i have heard both opinions but decided to stay with this. will cost me a little more on the hyrdo bill.

here is another pic a little further back show all 8 of my ladies.
The one pic was taken around a month ago, crazy how quick they grow.

297404 297405

[tlranger]

That is some awesome difference and growth you have achieved.

[potluck]

Thanks tlranger!
Question Guys, my AK47 autoflower's came with a estimated Veg Time of 14 days and Bloom of 56 Days(8wks). From the day i planted the seeds, i am currently at week 10, and i am not sure when i should start to harvest, since technically i am already 10 weeks, but i assume that does not include the germination period. The first time i noticed the calyx, and it had a few small pistols coming out of it was the end of week 5, should i consider that the beginning of the Bloom stage, and there it would be safe to say i have to wait until at least week 14 before i should consider to harvest?
since these ladies are autoflowers i never changed the light cycle. although i was under the impression that when the Calyx's were forming it was considered PreFlowering, so i left my MH Light in place for 2 more weeks, then switched it out with my HPS.

any help is appreciated, i made it this far, i just dont want to blow it on harvesting to early or late.
thanks

[Shovelhandle]

the time given by the seed vendor is an estimate and usually a little optimistic. Harvest according to the trichome color.

[tlranger]

Shovelhandle - on the money

[2bfree]

Beautiful plants!!! I was going to suggest the led lights (not China made). Eliminates heat problems (thus creating no heat signature) Unfortunately at this time, they REALLY take a kicking to your wallet. I have the veg. blue and the bud red. I love them! Best of luck with your gorgeous ladies!