Is this Mag & Cal or ? deficiency?

[Happy Retiree]

Hello... We're growing indoors in soil. Take a look at these photos. Does it look like a magnesium &/or calcium deficiency? The plants just started their 6th week in flower. We fertilize every other watering & pH is always around the mid 6's. PPM in our water is around 60. Day temp in the room is around 75. Thanks for your help.

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[Happy Retiree]

Gee, there have been 248 views of my post, yet not one reply.:( Is there a reason for that? Help me out here fellas. Thanks.

[Mal420xl]

there is indeed a reason, actually several. the main one is a little more info is required. try this link it should help you get more replies. http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/173775-cancom-copy-n-paste-troubleshooting-forms.html
the other is if you look there are between 1000 and 2000+ people on this site at any one time but out of them 5 or 6 may actually be members that can or will post. once you get the form filled out it will make things easier to pin down what may be going on.
pics are good but just about everything makes them yellow and curl and dry out one way or another.

[Mal420xl]

you spraying anything on them?

[Burnt Toast]

there is indeed a reason, actually several. the main one is a little more info is required. try this link it should help you get more replies. CanCom 'Copy-n-Paste' Troubleshooting Forms
the other is if you look there are between 1000 and 2000+ people on this site at any one time but out of them 5 or 6 may actually be members that can or will post. Exactly. Unregistered individuals (aka Guests) can view posts and drive up the view tally as well as the registered members. The guests just cannot post replies or start new threads until they register and become members. Just exhibit some patience. A registered member will eventually come along to offer the help that youre seeking if s/he has any to offer.

[Happy Retiree]

you spraying anything on them?

No, we are not spraying. Never have. We're growing Jack Flash & average 3 ozs dry. But we always get this situation & not sure what to do about it. Thank you!

[polishpollack]

Magnesium deficiency. Could be another micro nute as well, but that golden yellow spotting very much looks like mg def. Epsom salt, say about 1/2 tsp per gallon or water might do the trick, but since you've had this problem for a while, I might go with just a little more salt, say 3/4 to full tsp in gallon of water, water with that only for now, and see what happens, repairs will take place within two days. yellow spotting should disappear, but dead brown leaves will not recover. Feel free to pull the off. a better thing to do is go a hydro shop and get botanicare's calmag and follow the directions on the back for dose rate. Don't give to much or too frequently, as too much won't help, but enough will. I'm wondering if you also have a calcium def there, so calmag should help as it has both. Before you go to the store however, take a look at your fert container ingredients and see if calcium and magnesium are present. If they are, then I'm baffled as to your problem. It could be that you're giving too much of NPK without some micro nutes. I know I seem like a Dynagro salesman in these forums, BUT..... I have to advocate the use of their ferts because you only need one bottle for veg and one for flowering, if you want to buy it. The Dynagro ferts have pretty much all the nutes plants needs, to include things like boron, sulphur, zinc, and yes, calcium and magnesium. Sometimes I think I come across like a jerk but it really does pay to do some homework. For now, try some epsom salt in water and see what happens in a couple of days. You can get it at a pharmacy and it's a cheap fix rather than buying a different fert. Also, in the future please take photos in white light so we can better see color.

[Shovelhandle]

I don't know. But I have four Neville's Haze x Afghani running that are all like that. They burned up like that early on in flower but the other two strains are just fine. This same strain did that last time I ran them. I tried flushing but once that burn happens there isn't much going back. The plants continue to grow ever so slowly, they are just starting week 10 bloom cycle. They have an awesome aroma though. But none of the strains are ripe yet.

So I think they are sensitive to some nutrient, not a deficiency, imo. They were fed cal-mag plus with 100% organic compost teas and nutes. The other two strains (fourteen plants) showed no overfeeding. This is my last four seeds so the question will go unanswered, for my strain.

[polishpollack]

It's a little confusing because some of the damage is so bad. The golden yellow spotting is typically mag def. If there is no magnesium in the fert or soil, then that could be it. That's my best guess without knowing what in the ferts. This is why you want to answer the questions, to provide more details.
Shovel, I don't think a plant can be sensitive to a nutrient while not showing any sign of overfeeding. I guess you're referring to genetics, one type being more sensitive, but just be sure that it is nutrient burning that's happening. That's the hard part because plants will yellow, brown, develop spots, and die and unless you know what can cause each one and the pattern they appear in, it can be impossible to know exactly what's wrong. It's not just the leaf appearance to examine but a grower needs to know what happened first... did the leaf tissue turn yellow, then brown, or just go straight brown. Did the color change first take place at the leaf tip or more into the leaf itself? Did the color change first develop at the lower leaves or in the middle of the plant or at the top? Answers to these questions can help pinpoint what the problem is.

[Shovelhandle]

crispy burned, yellow and brown leaves can certainly be a sign of overfeeding. What to you consists of signs of overfeeding?

[polishpollack]

Not all brown leaves are "burned by chemistry." The leaves in the photos have magnesium deficiency. Advanced stage of leaf tissue death will always look brown and crispy, but determining the cause is the issue.

[polishpollack]

Happyretiree, let us know how things worked out.

[Happy Retiree]

Happyretiree, let us know how things worked out.

Sorry, but I've been away & that's why you haven't back from me. I filled out the form & included a spreadsheet of my feeding formula, but it won't format correctly in this post.

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) EXPERIENCED NOVICE â?? BEEN GROWING FOR SEVERAL YEARS

What type of hydro set-up are you running? NONE - SOIL

Your Equipment:
A) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) HPS
B) Distance from tops? 2 FEET
C) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) ENCLOSED REFLECTOR
D) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 1000 WATTS, 12 ON, 12 OFF
E) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? YES
F) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? YES
G) Size of reservoir?
H) What medium if applicable. OCEAN HARVEST SOIL

Your nutrients and water:
I) If using rockwoll for clones or seedlings, did you rinse the cubes well, with properly ph'd water? WE DONâ??T RINSE, PH IS AROUND 6.5, WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH CUTTINGS
J) Source of water. (tap or filtered) What's it's ph? TAP, UNFILTERED, 6.3-6.8
K) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.

FOXFARM TIGERBLOOM 2-8-4
FOXFARM BIG BLOOM 1-3-7
OPEN SESAME N 5%, Phosphate 45%, Potash 19%, Sulphur 2%, Iron .15%, Manganese .05%, Zinc .05%
BEASTIE BLOOMZ 0-50-30
CHA CHING 9-50-10

All feeding done to manufacturers' specifications.



L) What is the ec/ppm of your unadjusted tap (or filtered) water? Under 100
M) What is the ec/ppm of your nutrient solution?
N) What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? (reservoir high and low temps)
O) Does your ec/ppm show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? We donâ??t check daily.
P) Does the ph fluctuate? NO
Q) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you
spray? (Just after lights come on, just before they go out...) WE DO NOT FOLIAR FEED.
R) How often do you replace reservoir water/nutes? What does it look like before changes? (clear, foamy, green, brown...)

Your growroom:
S) What size of closet, room or hut? ROOM IS 12FT X 15FT. WE HAVE 3 1000 WATT LIGHTS WITH REFLECTOR screens TO CREATE 4 WALLS THAT CONTAIN THE GARDEN WITH THE SPACE OF THE LIGHTS.
T) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? MID 70 DEGREES 35-45% HUMIDITY ...With lights off? LOW 70â??S â?? I DONâ??T KNOW THE HUMIDITY WITH LIGHTS OFF.
U) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? NONE
V) Are the roots long and white, or brown and slimy? LONG & WHITE

Your strain:
W) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) JACK FLASH SATIVA DOMINATE
X) From seeds or clones? ORIGINALLY FROM SEED, NOW FROM CLONES
Y) Is this an autoflower strain? I DONâ??T KNOW

[Happy Retiree]

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Here are some more photos. I know the color isn't great even though I took the pics in good light with a flash. The coloring is the same as in my original pictures.

[Happy Retiree]

Good color on this. Week 3 of Flowering Jack Flash.290335

[Happy Retiree]

Different plant, same problem.
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[Shovelhandle]

I wish I knew, Retiree.
As I posted, I've had a similar problem and I have a similar grow to yours, good products, proper feeding, lighting temp and pH. One strain hated it and the other strains loved it. I know that a lockout from too much something can look like not enough something. We'll both be happy when we solve this dilemma.

[Happy Retiree]

I wish I knew, Retiree.
As I posted, I've had a similar problem and I have a similar grow to yours, good products, proper feeding, lighting temp and pH. One strain hated it and the other strains loved it. I know that a lockout from too much something can look like not enough something. We'll both be happy when we solve this dilemma.

Evidently, the FoxFarm nute schedule is too strong. This type of "burn" happens in every one of my Jack Flash crops. Unusually, it occurs much later in the Flowering cycle as opposed to this time when it started in the 2nd week. The "schedule" was not created for cannabis plants & being that not all plants are created equal, it's entirely possible it's overkill - no pun intended.

I'm going to straight water the next 2 times, then go 1/2 strength on FoxFarm. If anyone has a better way of handling this, I'm all ears.

[polishpollack]

Crap, I think I was wrong. I took the spotting to be mag deficiency because that's usually how it appears, but this is why you want to take photos in white light, not sodium. I thought the spotting was a golden color but that was made by the sodium light. It actually appears to be a brown color. I didn't realize last time that you're giving so much phosphorus. That is your problem. Any reason why you are giving so much? that's a LOT of P. Chances are, all you really need is the Tigerbloom. Make sure that it has micronutes, like mag, calcium, sulphur, boron, etc., or you'll have to supplement. It's hard to supplement without giving more fert since most of the micro fert products contain at least some of the macro nutes. One more reason why I advocate Dynagro, because it's pretty simple, has everything you need, and you have to go out of your way to screw it up. The Foxfarm schedule doesn't take into account the adding of more ferts. Just water and let the soil dry out before you water again. Maybe it isn't too late.

[Happy Retiree]

Good to hear from you. Why so much P? Just following the FF schedule of feeding, but I am adding Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz & Cha Ching. Tiger Bloom has 8% & Big Bloom has .3% & Grow Big has 4%. Tiger Bloom has Mag, Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese & Zinc. All trace amounts.

I'm into week 3 of Flowering now. Unfortunately, I already watered with nutes today - 2 tsp Grow Big 6-4-4, 2 tsp Tiger Bloom 2-8-4 & 1 Tbl Big Bloom .01-.3-.7, 1/4 tsp Beastie Bloomz 50% P, 30% Potash, Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese, Zinc. Do I need to take the plants outside & flush? Or just wait till next watering & use no nutes. I have 16 plants & don't want to lose them so I'll do whatever it takes.

[polishpollack]

Without seeing them for myself and only knowing what you show here, I'm going to say take them outside and flush. Then let the soil dry out some. People water too much with indoor grows. The roots need oxygen and the only way that will happen is if the soil is allowed to dry out some before water again. You shouldn't need to add all the other stuff. Ideally, you only use one of those products like cha ching, and only use it once or twice in a soil grow, early in flowering. I'm wondering about calcium and magnesium. You don't write those in the fert contents. I'm guessing that there might be some of these in your soil, but you might consider getting some cal-mag by Botainicare. Just following any directions on the back. These extra products may not be necessary and just get people to spend more money. You've got to be careful how much you give cuz you're really just killing plants with kindness, i.e., spending too much money! So flush, let dry for a while, no more adding ferts as it looks like phosphorus toxicity (too much P), use only tiger bloom for a while unless there are nutes missing and you need some Grow to include them. It might be smart to contact foxfarm and ask them what to use for flowering, just don't be specific what you are growing (I'm sure they'll understand), I'd avoid giving ferts for a while and see what happens, meaning they might just finish fine as they are, after flushing. When you flush, just add enough water until water runs out for about 15 seconds, not too long, but enough to wash out some salts. It'll be interesting to see how this works out so please do me a favor and come back and report progress, good or bad. We all could learn from stuff like this. This is a good reason why we want to practice getting things right from the beginning because guess-work will kill a plant.

[polishpollack]

If you want to take out the guess work, Happy Frog soil might be a good one to go with. Or a box of foxfarm's powder fert called fruit and flower, which you add 1/2 cup of fert for every gallon of soil and mix well, put your plants in that. Or if you want to get a little fancy and spend a few bucks, you can get a method that should be great and all you do is add water. Policy (http://www.gro4me.com/policy.htm) Read the text, then click on continue to see the page for the soil pages. I think what you do is get sunshine mix number 2, and divide the mix in half, mixing one half with the top fert mix and the other half with bottom fert mix as the top and bottom ferts are of different strengths. keep the halves separate and know which one is which because the bottom mix should only go in the bottom of a grow pot, top goes on top. Don't add anything else unless you absolutely have to. preferably use distilled water, letting the soil dry some between waterings. They will ship the fert mix to you. Hard part is finding sunshine mix 2. Promix will probably be alright. You can call and ask about any soil substitutes that will work. Make sure you're clear on the instructions.

[Happy Retiree]

Really appreciate your response. It's 11pm here, & I'm leaving early a.m. for a hospital morning. So! If it's a matter of "life & death" to the plant, I can't flush till Thursday. I'll do it tonight if warranted.

I'll respond to the rest of your post shortly.

[Happy Retiree]

PP (polishpollack) - are you still there? It's 11:30pm here so I'll be calling it a night. I'll look forward to future posts.

[polishpollack]

Just avoid using those extra products with high phosphorus, it's too much. Let us know how things work out. Giving a bunch of fert because you can isn't a great idea. A grower needs to know what they're doing.

[Happy Retiree]

Just avoid using those extra products with high phosphorus, it's too much. Let us know how things work out. Giving a bunch of fert because you can isn't a great idea. A grower needs to know what they're doing.

Will do! We also have a bottle of the Dynabloom that you talk about. We're going to use that with our new crop of White Widow & see how that goes. Thank you for all your input. I'll keep you abreast of our progress.

[polishpollack]

The dynabloom should pretty much be all you need, but only for the bloom cycle. If you look at the contents, you'll see it has a bunch of the micronutes in there as well. Make sure you follow the directions on how much to use, so it pays to read the label. There's a difference between soil and hydroponic grows for this brand, in how much you use per gallon of water. Remember that the bloom version is for bloom only, as the higher phosphorus is designed to provide flowering and budding what it needs. Maybe try a grow fert until you switch to 12/12 lighting, the use the bloom. Your plants may not need to be given fert with each watering. If leaves look pale green and yellowing, they probably need a little nitrogen. If leaf tips are turning brown without going yellow first, that's probably too much nitrogen. After a while, and some reading, you begin to learn that specific problems have specific signs at certain times in a grow. It's just like being a doctor in that you diagnose the problem based on what you know and see. By the way, you've sure spent some payola on ferts. No offense, but it's a lesson learned - it just ain't necessary. Maybe grow some tomatoes to get your money's worth, eh?

[polishpollack]

Is there any improvement?

[Happy Retiree]

Is there any improvement?
Thanks for asking. No improvement yet. Of the 16 plants we have, I picked off a big handful of bad leaves today. But remember, we didn't flush - in fact we gave the FF nutes 1 more time (before you responded) & watered plain once since then. They're due for another watering tomorrow which I plan to be straight water.

[polishpollack]

Watering tomorrow might be a good idea, but remember that's it's best to let the soil dry out some before you water again. Since you have a lot of P in the soil, another watering is probably good.

[polishpollack]

How are things looking so far?

[Farmer Rich]

Were you able to flush? One issue I had on my last grow was a P deficiency. As opposed to changing the mix, mine was a result of the pH being too high for soilless mix. Where I used to run around 6.0, I started taking it to 5.7 (and even a little lower) on both my water and nutrients, which ended up fixing the problem. Since you're growing in real dirt, you pH would likely be a bit higher, but something you may want to consider.

Farmer Rich

[Happy Retiree]

Were you able to flush? One issue I had on my last grow was a P deficiency. As opposed to changing the mix, mine was a result of the pH being too high for soilless mix. Where I used to run around 6.0, I started taking it to 5.7 (and even a little lower) on both my water and nutrients, which ended up fixing the problem. Since you're growing in real dirt, you pH would likely be a bit higher, but something you may want to consider.

Farmer Rich
Thanks for the thought. Ph is around 6.4 which I understand is correct for soil. Ph of soil before planting is 6.4.

[Happy Retiree]

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No improvement on these girls. There is more yellowing though. 4 days after the flush, I feed with 1.5 tsp Tiger Bloom, 2 tsp Big Bloom & 1/4 tsp CalMag. Today I gave plain water. What's going on? They are now in their 5th week of Flowering. Maybe the problem stems from over fertilizing in the Veg stage. I'm starting to think that Fox Farm's nutrient program is for tomatoes, not cannabis. :-)

[polishpollack]

Early on, too much phosphorus was given, but I'm wondering about calcium. Have you been using the calmag all along, or was this recent dose the only one you've given? The leaf death is complex with green, yellow, and brown colors in a fairly random pattern. Usually this indicates misusing fertilizer. The only way to know for sure would be to have the leaves analyzed but I don't think that's a good idea.

[bigbud hoop]

Hello... We're growing indoors in soil. Take a look at these photos. Does it look like a magnesium &/or calcium deficiency? The plants just started their 6th week in flower. We fertilize every other watering & pH is always around the mid 6's. PPM in our water is around 60. Day temp in the room is around 75. Thanks for your help.

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This is definitely a huge deficiency probably cal mag...you also state your ppm is 60 what's the ppm after you add your nutes? It should be 860 ... and I have gone as high as 1000 total ppm for the nutes you added and 60 that was in your water when you started...I personal fert every watering in bloom...until 2 weeks prior to harvest then nothing but a flush w/water

[Happy Retiree]

Early on, too much phosphorus was given, but I'm wondering about calcium. Have you been using the calmag all along, or was this recent dose the only one you've given? The leaf death is complex with green, yellow, and brown colors in a fairly random pattern. Usually this indicates misusing fertilizer. The only way to know for sure would be to have the leaves analyzed but I don't think that's a good idea.

If you are familiar with the FF Veg & Flower schedule, then you would know if it was too much phosphorus. If you don't, then I would be happy to write it out. The CalMag was given twice. I water with Molasses one time. I watered with SuperThrive one time.

[Happy Retiree]

This is definitely a huge deficiency probably cal mag...you also state your ppm is 60 what's the ppm after you add your nutes? It should be 860 ... and I have gone as high as 1000 total ppm for the nutes you added and 60 that was in your water when you started...I personal fert every watering in bloom...until 2 weeks prior to harvest then nothing but a flush w/water

I don't measure the ppm - only the Ph. It is usually around 6.4. Water straight from the faucet which is from our well is always around 6.4. The FF schedule calls for nutes every OTHER watering in Flower. Yes, 2 wks prior to harvest I only use straight water.

[polishpollack]

Weren't you also using
OPEN SESAME N 5%, Phosphate 45%, Potash 19%, Sulphur 2%, Iron .15%, Manganese .05%, Zinc .05%
BEASTIE BLOOMZ 0-50-30
CHA CHING 9-50-10

The middle number is all phosphorus. I think it was too much. Maybe just use the dynabloom for veg perhaps next time. It looks like it could be deficiency, but it's hard to tell exactly because I haven't seen so much P fert given all at once. And yes, there could be some missing nute like calcium, but unless the leaves and soil are taken to a lab and analyzed it is impossible to know what happened. Most people go easier on ferts and this is why I suggest people use happy frog or other soil that has fert in it. I swear, I'm going to start making my own potting soil with fert mix and sell it cuz it would make life so much easier. Anyone up for that? If I make a mix and package it, would this interest anyone out there?

[Happy Retiree]

Weren't you also using
OPEN SESAME N 5%, Phosphate 45%, Potash 19%, Sulphur 2%, Iron .15%, Manganese .05%, Zinc .05%
BEASTIE BLOOMZ 0-50-30
CHA CHING 9-50-10

The middle number is all phosphorus. I think it was too much. Maybe just use the dynabloom for veg perhaps next time. It looks like it could be deficiency, but it's hard to tell exactly because I haven't seen so much P fert given all at once. And yes, there could be some missing nute like calcium, but unless the leaves and soil are taken to a lab and analyzed it is impossible to know what happened. Most people go easier on ferts and this is why I suggest people use happy frog or other soil that has fert in it. I swear, I'm going to start making my own potting soil with fert mix and sell it cuz it would make life so much easier. Anyone up for that? If I make a mix and package it, would this interest anyone out there?

I used those solubles in the last crop - Let's call it Crop 1. This is a newer crop - Crop 2. I didn't use any of the Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz & ChaChing, just Grow Big, Tiger Boom & Big Bloom in Veg or Flower. In Flower, I followed the FF schedule except I added CalMag 2x & Molasses 1x. Every other watering was plain water. BUT, from the 1st week in Flower the plants started showing signs which leads me to believe that the FF schedule for Veg is too strong. At the end of the 4th week in Flower, I flushed till the runoff was up to 6.0-6.2. It had gone down to 4.8+. You know I use the FF Ocean soil, right?

I just started another crop (Crop 3) & for veg this time, I cut way back (30%) on the FF schedule but added 3 ml of SuperThrive. I added these nutes every other watering & they are super beautiful plants. Today we put them into Flower - White Widow & Jack Flash.

[Happy Retiree]

I have to amend my last comments. First of all, for Crops 1 & 2, I followed the FF Veg schedule using only Grow Big (6-4-4) & Big Bloom (.01-.3-.7) plus 3 ml SuperThrive. Problem was I added nutes EVERY watering because I read the chart wrong. This could be where the problems began - at the beginning!!!

[Happy Retiree]

Most people go easier on ferts and this is why I suggest people use happy frog or other soil that has fert in it. I swear, I'm going to start making my own potting soil with fert mix and sell it cuz it would make life so much easier. Anyone up for that? If I make a mix and package it, would this interest anyone out there?

From FoxFarm's website: Here you can see the difference between the Ocean Forest & Happy Frog.

Ocean Forest® Potting Soil
Good Things From the Earth and Sea!
The ultimate potting soilâ??everything your plants need, in one bag. Ocean Forest® is a powerhouse blend of premium earthworm castings, bat guano, and sea-going fish and crab meal.
Composted forest humus, sandy loam, and sphagnum peat moss give Ocean Forest® its light, aerated texture.
Garden tip: Perfect for containers and ready to use right out of the bag. Ocean Forest® is pH adjusted at 6.3 to 6.8 to allow for optimum fertilizer uptake. Thereâ??s no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try an organic blend like FoxFarm Big Bloom® Liquid Plant Food to encourage strong branching and a sturdy, healthy growth habit.

Happy Frog® Potting Soil
Handcrafted in the Humboldt Nation
Your potted plants deserve the best. Their roots canâ??t seek out nutrients in the ground, so you have to bring it to them. Thatâ??s why Happy Frog® Potting Soil is alive with beneficial microbes and fungi that help break down organic matter and feed the plant roots.
Between the earthworm castings, the bat guano, and the composted forest humus, your container plants have never felt so good. And donâ??t worryâ??FoxFarm uses only the highest quality, premium ingredientsâ??no cheap fillers, no topsoil, no sludge.
Garden tip: Happy Frog® Potting Soil is perfect for container gardens.

[Mal420xl]

ocean is awesome but it is hot and stays hot. you dont want to add nutes to that except maybe bb and some cal mag if you needed it for a good while. anything else and you might as well take a blow torch to them.

[Happy Retiree]

ocean is awesome but it is hot and stays hot. you dont want to add nutes to that except maybe bb and some cal mag if you needed it for a good while. anything else and you might as well take a blow torch to them.

So how can it be awesome & HOT at the same time? Maybe it's awesome for tomatoes but HOT for cannabis? It says not to add nutes for 3 weeks right on the bag. Would that suffice? What is the definition of HOT? What do you recommend in lieu of Ocean Forest?

[Mal420xl]

3 weeks...mmm about that. well i would say as long as you dont add nutes for quite a while and the plants have good roots established its awesome. after the better part of 2 months vegging my runoffs still read 2k+ppm, 2.1 ec. until that changes i wont add anything but some tiger bloom once i get them flowering. definition of "hot" is high in nitrogen and means that very young, weak, poor root systems will get the blowtorch effect. any soil can work. foxfarm and similar companies design the nutes and soils to be used in stages. start off in light warrior, get good roots going, transplant to ocean forest or happy frog get them nice and transitioned then start adding the feed etc. i started using it only because i cant get topsoil and make my own mix in the winter.
as long as you are aware of the pros and cons and can adapt to them you can work with most anything.

[Happy Retiree]

3 weeks...mmm about that. well i would say as long as you dont add nutes for quite a while and the plants have good roots established its awesome. after the better part of 2 months vegging my runoffs still read 2k+ppm, 2.1 ec. until that changes i wont add anything but some tiger bloom once i get them flowering. definition of "hot" is high in nitrogen and means that very young, weak, poor root systems will get the blowtorch effect. any soil can work. foxfarm and similar companies design the nutes and soils to be used in stages. start off in light warrior, get good roots going, transplant to ocean forest or happy frog get them nice and transitioned then start adding the feed etc. i started using it only because i cant get topsoil and make my own mix in the winter.
as long as you are aware of the pros and cons and can adapt to them you can work with most anything.

FF says: "Thereâ??s no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try an organic blend like FoxFarm Big Bloom® Liquid Plant Food to encourage strong branching and a sturdy, healthy growth habit".

So there you have it! My plants really looks like they had a "blow-torch" put to them, that's for sure. Mia coppa. I'm the only one to blame. Their schedule calls for 2 tsp Tiger Bloom (2-8-4) + 1 Tbl Big Bloom (.01-.3-.7) every other watering.

They also recommend the following products for Flowering every other watering:

Open Sesame® Early Flowering Formula
( 5 - 45 - 19 ) 1st 2 wks of Flowering 1/4-1/2 tsp

Open Sesame® is a pH balanced blend of extra strength nutrients specifically designed for use during early flowering and ripening in fruits, buds, and flowers. With Open Sesame® you can look for enhanced flower size and multiple bud development. Use in soilless mixes, organic soils, hydroponics, and aeroponic systems. Open Sesame® is a high-phosphorus soluble fertilizer thatâ??s designed to bring plants into bloom on command. Just say the magic words!

Beastie Bloomz® Heavyweight Blossom Builder
( 0 - 50 - 30 ) wks 3 & 4 of Flowering 1/4 - 1/2 tsp

Beastie Bloomz® is perfect for gardeners and growers who are ready to take their plants to the next level. This is a high-phosphorus soluble fertilizer thatâ??s geared towards building amazing buds and flowers. Our revolutionary micronutrient pack is designed to create unbelievable internal bud density, which means that plants create fat, dense, tightly-packed blossoms, and plenty of them. Youâ??ll also see exceptionally brilliant color and a long, dazzling blooming season.

Cha Ching® Late Flowering Formula
( 9 - 50 - 10 ) wks 5-8 of Flowering 1/4 - 1/2 tsp

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[Mal420xl]

honestly all that may be a bit of overkill and their attempt to strip you of your cash. i cant see needing much more then the main three. grow big, big bloom during veg and maybe using all three, although i dont see the need going by my run off readings, other than a little bloom big or tiger bloom during flower. unless the ppm dropped off i wouldnt need to add grow big. right now all my plants are getting is a little bloom big and cal mag. next week when i shift them over ill flush them then start tiger bloom every other watering. i will hit them with sledgehammer a week before i start just feeding them water near the end.
thats just me im sure there are plenty of others with better info.

[polishpollack]

Hey, they don't call it Cha Ching for nothing!

[Happy Retiree]

Hey, they don't call it Cha Ching for nothing!

LOL. Well said!

[Happy Retiree]

honestly all that may be a bit of overkill and their attempt to strip you of your cash. i cant see needing much more then the main three. grow big, big bloom during veg and maybe using all three, although i dont see the need going by my run off readings, other than a little bloom big or tiger bloom during flower. unless the ppm dropped off i wouldnt need to add grow big. right now all my plants are getting is a little bloom big and cal mag. next week when i shift them over ill flush them then start tiger bloom every other watering. i will hit them with sledgehammer a week before i start just feeding them water near the end.
thats just me im sure there are plenty of others with better info.

I agree. OVERKILL. I'm not going to use them. I, too, will stick with the main three & pretty much agree with the rest of your statements.

What week will you be flushing & how do you do that? FLUSHING to me is pouring 3x's the amount of water to the size of the container, e.g. 5 gal container should get 15 gals of water flushed through it. The term "leaching" is also used. I have Sledgehammer but haven't used it.

What strains are you growing & what is your yield? I have been growing Jack Flash & getting on average 3 ozs dry per plant. I have been growing 16 plants under 3-1000 Watt Big Kahuna but just increased the number of plants to 27. I also just started growing White Widow XTRM. Perhaps this is a discussion for a different thread.

[Mal420xl]

well, what week i swap them over is a bit subjective. it really is dependant on the plants. once i start seeing amber trichs in larger amounts i know its getting close. flushing for me anyway means i water it to saturation not so much by volume and it also means nothing but water for the last 2 weeks. unfortunately growing in soil means that flushing has a somewhat limited effect as far as completely removing ferts...unless you manage to actually deplete the soil.....

as for strain. right now its northern mexican aintgotnoclue...or bagseed. i havent put any money into seeds yet for a myriad of reasons but mainly im a cheap bastard and honestly when you grow it yourself you can see what it was like before it traveled poorly, trashcompacted etc. by the time its gets here its a shadow of its former self. i also only grow a few plants at a time as its only for me and a few buds if theyre short. the ones i have now are starting to get obnoxious. when i open the tent i get hit by a powerful stink of a fruit eating skunk that crapped in a tub of fermenting corn. it was so strong this morning i thought i was gonna guff but it settled down. so maybe its a sour diesel??? dunno tho but i know it will be way better than the product the seed came from once i got it.

[Mal420xl]

my best yeild indoors has been around 4ounces of good bud + trim and mids for a total of maybe 5.5 to 6 or so per plant.
however i had less of height restriction at that point so i could let them veg longer. with these im probably looking at 2-3 ounces per plant. they are super short but part of that is from a ph issue.

[polishpollack]

A pH of 4.8 is much to low for a soil grow. That tells us something. Too much fert. Even using the ferts you have without using the additional P ferts, I suspect might be too much. I didn't think it was overfert initially because usually overfert shows leaf tips turning yellow, then brown, then the rest of the leaf turns yellow and brown. You have those colors, but you also have areas that stayed green. This was a good one, however, because people can learn from this. I wonder if you water with some pH up, if that might make a difference.

[Happy Retiree]

A pH of 4.8 is much to low for a soil grow. That tells us something. Too much fert. Even using the ferts you have without using the additional P ferts, I suspect might be too much. I didn't think it was overfert initially because usually overfert shows leaf tips turning yellow, then brown, then the rest of the leaf turns yellow and brown. You have those colors, but you also have areas that stayed green. This was a good one, however, because people can learn from this. I wonder if you water with some pH up, if that might make a difference.

Ok - the consensus is too much fert. I concur. The plants I have in Veg now are on a new schedule. They are at the end of Week 5 & have received a 30% reduction in the FF schedule & only fed 3 x's. They look gorgeous. The Jack Flash are over 2 feet & the White Widow are over 30 inches. They have been growing in the Ocean Forest soil. Now that they are going into Flower, I will follow the FF schedule cut by 30% (1/3rd approx). The schedule calls for feeding every other watering.

Question: SHOULD I ADD CALMAG with each feeding in addition to the FF?

As for the pH, with nutes, I'm at 6.4. Are you suggesting I go higher? I have a bunch of plants so we can have some fun with experimenting.

[Shovelhandle]

6.4 = good

[Mal420xl]

i wouldnt play with the ph if its at 6.4...unless you wanna watch your plants burn up. if you really want to see what happens take a look at some of my pics i had ph problems in both directions. i still have 2 that are real slow to come back.

[Mal420xl]

calmags probably not a bad idea.

[Esteban1]

Happy, going back to the nute thingy, the fox farm trio is an excellent source of nutrition. But when you delve into the cha Ching, beastie blomz etc, gotta be REAL CONSERVATIVE & IMHO would go light on the feeds. As my buddy "the moderator" sez "it's a weed". The cal mags & PH up/down remedies, will work...... however they are repairs status post "shock". With all of the high tech gadgets out there, outstanding yes....... but truly necessary? Relax & slow down.

Sic Semper Tyrannasurus

:rastasmoke:

[Happy Retiree]

Happy, going back to the nute thingy, the fox farm trio is an excellent source of nutrition. But when you delve into the cha Ching, beastie blomz etc, gotta be REAL CONSERVATIVE & IMHO would go light on the feeds. As my buddy "the moderator" sez "it's a weed". The cal mags & PH up/down remedies, will work...... however they are repairs status post "shock". With all of the high tech gadgets out there, outstanding yes....... but truly necessary? Relax & slow down.


Thanks, Esteban, I'm doing just that. I've cut the FF schedule of nutes (the trio) by 30% & adding 1/2 tsp CalMag. Feeding every other watering. I just hope I'm not going to run into problems with the Ocean Forest being so "hot". I'll be sending pics as the White Widow XTRM grows in Flower.

[polishpollack]

How are things looking so far?

[Mal420xl]

polish where the hell do you find those freaky avatar pics thats hilarious!

[Happy Retiree]

How are things looking so far?
Those plants went through the flowering stage of course, but I started harvesting them earlier than usual. I used to wait till they were 30+% amber on the trichomes, but this time only till they were opaque. Big difference. But I'm getting a little ahead of myself here. I stopped the nutes & they were OK - didn't get worse. The flushing & cutting back 100% on the nutes made a big difference. Thanks to all that participated in this thread. I'm becoming an expert after all these years with "a lil' help from my friends".

[polishpollack]

Ok, good, just easy on the ferts.
The pics are out there, I just find one I think is funny and cut it out.
Now, if you'll excuse me I have to go ride off into the sunset.

[Mal420xl]

Ok, good, just easy on the ferts.
The pics are out there, I just find one I think is funny and cut it out.
Now, if you'll excuse me I have to go ride off into the sunset.

dont you mean "prance" in to the sunset heheheh thats awesome