Need feedback please. I'm new here!

[butt3rcup29]

Let me start with basics. I'm 5'9, female, and 190 lbs. Overweight, but not obese. I have a relatively slow metabolism, hence the overweight problem. I've been smoking fairly regularly (2-3 times per week) but never very much at a time. Like I'd pack a small bowl and share it with my roommate. That's it. I have a court hearing on Aug 16, and I know I'll be tested. The last time I smoked was day before yesterday, which would put me at 17 days clean by test time. Yesterday, I started a 15-day herbal cleanse for weight loss support, and I've been taking a thermogenic metabolism booster as per label instructions. I've been eating healthy for a few months, losing weight (40 lbs since Feb! Yay!), and I try to get in an hour or so of cardio every day but that just doesn't happen sometimes. I also drink massive amounts of water (it's basically all I drink anyway, and on the cleanse and thermogenics I need the extra hydration).

Do you guys think I can pass after 17 days clean? Or should I try dilution? I've read the Dilution - Tips, Tricks, and Guidelines sticky post, and if I did dilute, I would use pedialyte and load up on creatine and B-12. Someone give me some feedback, this test is important and I can't afford to fail!

[deandavidmartin]

First off, go get a home THC drug test from CVS or whatever drug store is near you right now (First Check THC home test is about $18). Take the test the FIRST urination of the day (when you wake up tomorrow) and see if you pass or not. Second, since THC is stored in your bodies fat cells, you don't want to be exercising a few days before your test as this will release more THC into your urine. Exercising is a good way to help rid your body of THC but it can work against you if you work out in the few days leading up to your test. You want your body to go into hibernation mode for the test so to speak.

[deandavidmartin]

I'm sorry, I misread. don't take the drug test now. Wait until your court date draws closer. My point is, you can use the home drug test as a tool to know if you're good or not.

[butt3rcup29]

Ok. So I should take it 3 or 4 days before hand right? So if I need to dilute I'll have time to load up on creatine?

Then maybe take another the morning of with FMU so I have a better idea as to what to expect?

[Burnt Toast]

I'm sorry, don't take the drug test now. Wait until your court date draws closer.

Actually DDM, its okay for the O/P to take a home test tomorrow morning when waking up so s/he gets an idea where s/he stands. :thumbsup:
The O/P should then take a second home test 3 days before the scheduled U/A (again using the first void of the day). If the O/P's second test is "dirty", then s/he can began creatine-loading that same day in preparation to use N2's Dilution technique on the day of the scheduled U/A.

To the O/P: The proper vitamin to use for urine color is B2 (Riboflavin), not B12.

But it must be understood that with creatinine and S/G checks being the norm in recent years, sample color became the least aspect in determining an overly-diluted sample. Even urine samples that have a nice yellow color to them can still exhibit an unsatisfactory S/G and creatinine level.

[butt3rcup29]

Burnt Toast, I have pedialyte on-hand from when my daughter was sick. It's still good, not past the expiration date or anything. Would that be ok to dilute with on test day, or do I need to buy gatorade? I know pedialyte is full of electrolytes and stuff, but its for kids, so I'm wondering if it'll work for me. I'd have to supplement with a little gatorade anyway, because I only have one bottle of pedialyte, so would that work?

[butt3rcup29]

Also, should I stop taking the metabolism booster I'm taking 3 or 4 days before the test too? So I don't metabolize any more THC than necessary? I'm not going to go to jail or lose my job if I fail, it's much more important than that. I'd prefer to keep details to myself, just know that I absolutely CAN NOT fail and I WILL be watched, so substitution isn't an option for me.

[butt3rcup29]

To the O/P: The proper vitamin to use for urine color is B2 (Riboflavin), not B12.

This worries me. My aunt (a registered nurse with 30+ years of experience and no reason to lie) and uncle (an MD with more experience than my aunt) AND a lab tech have all three told me that Riboflavin can cause a false positive for THC, even in patients who would otherwise be clean.

Curiously, I had a lab tech who recently attended a training conference tell me that Nexium (the little purple indigestion pill) could also cause a false positive, to the point where if someone tests positive for THC after disclosing a drug history including nexium, many labs will report back inconclusive. He said when taking a history, if the patient discloses nexium, they almost expect a positive result for THC.

[Burnt Toast]

Burnt Toast, I have pedialyte on-hand from when my daughter was sick. It's still good, not past the expiration date or anything. Would that be ok to dilute with on test day, or do I need to buy gatorade? I know pedialyte is full of electrolytes and stuff, but its for kids, so I'm wondering if it'll work for me. I'd have to supplement with a little gatorade anyway, because I only have one bottle of pedialyte, so would that work?
Nobody is going to know that but you - by ordering some validity test strips online and test your S/G after using pedialyte. Do a Google search for drug adulteration test kits.


Also, should I stop taking the metabolism booster I'm taking 3 or 4 days before the test too? So I don't metabolize any more THC than necessary? Yep.


I'm not going to go to jail or lose my job if I fail, it's much more important than that. I'd prefer to keep details to myself, just know that I absolutely CAN NOT fail and I WILL be watched, so substitution isn't an option for me Unless youre revealing your username to every Tom, Dick, or Harry in the world, it would be beneficial on your part to elaborate a bit on those "details", which can serve to elicit more helpful information for your situation.

With that being stated, if youre not facing jail time or loss of employment, what are the consequences should you fail a U/A?

[Burnt Toast]

This worries me. My aunt (a registered nurse with 30+ years of experience and no reason to lie) and uncle (an MD with more experience than my aunt) AND a lab tech have all three told me that Riboflavin can cause a false positive for THC, even in patients who would otherwise be clean.

Curiously, I had a lab tech who recently attended a training conference tell me that Nexium (the little purple indigestion pill) could also cause a false positive, to the point where if someone tests positive for THC after disclosing a drug history including nexium, many labs will report back inconclusive. He said when taking a history, if the patient discloses nexium, they almost expect a positive result for THC. There are no false-positives anymore. False positives are eliminated when the sample undergoes a confirmation GC/MS. The GC/MS, being a selective and highly accurate methodology, would distinguish between THC-COOH and vitamins and/or scripted and OTC meds.

As far a Riboflavin triggering false-positives, there is no solid substantiation to this claim.
If such claims were actually true, then individuals who consume cereals rich in Riboflavin (ie, Total, Product 19, etc) as part of their breakfast diet would become victims of a false-positive.

But as I stated above, there are no false-positives anymore.

[butt3rcup29]

I just registered for this site today. Nobody even knows I'm here, much less that I'm butt3rcup29. Sooo....Elaboration. Here goes.

Two and a half years ago, my ex-mother-in-law was granted custody of my two younger kids. My daughter is still with me. The judge listened to her parade her stream of liars into the courtroom and didn't drug-test me (which I would have passed with flying colors, I'd been clean for over a year) and awarded her custody of the boys. I told him then, respectfully, that she's white trash, and sooner or later CPS would take the kids from her and it would be his fault. He didn't listen. A week and a half ago, CPS made a visit to her home and it was disgusting. No electricity, dog crap everywhere, the boys hadn't eaten in two days and one of them had a tick attached to his ear, feeding. Trash piled up everywhere and cockroaches crawling out of every crevice, probably 10x more bugs than square footage. Not a scrap of food in the house. None. Not even a potato. They removed the kids and placed them in foster care. My ex-husband and I were notified and called in to an emergency placement hearing. Apparently the judge realized his error in judgement. We were both tested, both failed for pot, but both honest. We were both scheduled for a retest and the boys are still in foster care. If I fail the second one there won't be a third, and the kids will stay where they are until my exMIL cleans up and gets them back. If I pass, they'll come home with me. I've also filed full custody papers and if I don't pass this screen I'm SOL. I'm not smoking anymore, it's just not worth it in my situation, but I need to clean up fast so I can pass the test. I won't have to worry about this again.

So no, I'm not facing jail time or loss of employment. I'm facing the loss of my children. It is life-or-death that I pass.

[butt3rcup29]

BUT a false positive would f**k me. It's an instant-read cup, and if I fail on-site my kids are gone. Even if it comes back later that it was falsely positive and I have to retest, I don't want them left in the system any longer than absolutely necessary.

[Burnt Toast]

From the situation youve described, youre not on court-ordered probation for a criminal offense in which your rights had been revoked. Therefore, you have a right to have a confirmation test. In this case, any pony-tailed attorney would tell you that no court will sustain a positive result on the sole basis of an instant assay, which lacks the ability to provide a quantitative value (unlike the GC/MS) to seal the deal on the evidentiary front.

[butt3rcup29]

Thanks for all your help and advice. On some other threads I've read, I've seen people badmouth you for acting like a know-it-all, so I was nervous the first time I saw you had commented on my question, but I don't find you to be overbearing at all. Just full of useful information. Again, I thank you.

[Burnt Toast]

On some other threads I've read, I've seen people badmouth you for acting like a know-it-all If this is so, can you please go to each thread that youve seen, and click on that little black triangular icon with the white "!" in its center - located at the bottom left corner of all posts, so I can have a look at them?
Thanks.

[butt3rcup29]

They are old posts (circa 2006) from the Substitution sticky by N2, and I think you've already addressed them. I flagged a couple though so you could see what I was talking about. I haven't explored a lot of the newer threads, I don't have the answers anyone is looking for. The only ones I've checked out are the ones where the posters are in a boat similar to mine, with around 2 weeks to clean up, only to see if any of the advice was applicable to me.

[deandavidmartin]

Actually DDM, its okay for the O/P to take a home test tomorrow morning when waking up so s/he gets an idea where s/he stands. :thumbsup:
The O/P should then take a second home test 3 days before the scheduled U/A (again using the first void of the day). If the O/P's second test is "dirty", then s/he can began creatine-loading that same day in preparation to use N2's Dilution technique on the day of the scheduled U/A.

Yes BT, great advise as always, thank you. To add to that butt3rcup29, if you use the First Check Home THC drug test and fail it, you can mail it in to get a free GC/MS run on your sample. This will give you an exact quantitative level of the THCA in your system. You will know exactly how close you are to the 15ng cut off level you are at. NOW would be an excellent time to get your home drug test (~$18 at a drug store), use it tomorrow, using your first urination of the day when you wake up and mail that sucker in before lunch tomorrow. You can view the results online or by phone within 5-7 days and you'll know where you stand (follow the directions on the box exactly).

[Burnt Toast]

They are old posts (circa 2006) from the Substitution sticky by N2, and I think you've already addressed them. I flagged a couple though so you could see what I was talking about. Hit your Notifications tab, located at the top where you log in/out.

[Burnt Toast]

To add to that butt3rcup29, if you use the First Check Home THC drug test and fail it, you can mail it in to get a free GC/MS run on your sample. This will give you an exact quantitative level of the THCA in your system. You will know exactly how close you are to the 15ng cut off level you are at. NOW would be an excellent time to get your home drug test (~$18 at a drug store), use it tomorrow, using your first urination of the day when you wake up and mail that sucker in before lunch tomorrow. You can view the results online or by phone within 5-7 days and you'll know where you stand (follow the directions on the box exactly). Keep in mind that she would have to send in a vial of her urine sample for a GC/MS to be performed. A used THC test kit by itself wouldnt be of much use to the lab tech.

[butt3rcup29]

I wish I had the option to sub. I have a perfectly clean donor (my little sister in med school) and she understands what's going on. She has no objections to helping me out. When I say I will be watched, that's not exactly carved in stone...I mean, the last test was a surprise, and the CPS worker herself took me into the courthouse bathroom where I was allowed to close the stall door but she stayed right outside. I worry, though, that since I failed it, I will be watched during the next one. Any thoughts? I'm not a criminal on parole or probation or something, technically I should still have my rights, right? Would it be worth it to risk it?

[Burnt Toast]

I mean, the last test was a surprise, and the CPS worker herself took me into the courthouse bathroom where I was allowed to close the stall door but she stayed right outside. What this a multi-stall bathroom?

Or...

Did you notice whether any (or all) water sources were secured (disabled in any way)?

[deandavidmartin]

Keep in mind that she would have to send in a vial of her urine sample for a GC/MS to be performed. A used THC test kit by itself wouldnt be of much use to the lab tech.

You're exactly right BT. Below is a picture of the specific at home drug test kit she'll need to buy. Should she fail the initial at home test, she'll be able to mail the urine specimen off to get the free quantitative GC/MS done (Follow the directions in the box exactly butt3rcup29). You can buy this at your local drug store in the pharmacy section for about $18. I highly recommend doing this step, as doing this will tell you exactly where you stand at the moment the urine specimen was taken.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3672/20120802213654114.jpg

[butt3rcup29]

I'm pretty sure this restroom is set up for testing. It's not the public restroom. Went into a part of the courthouse that is not public-access, and the hallway goes into a room, and there's a sink and a door. Then you go through the door into another room, where there are two stalls and that's it. There wasn't a dying agent in the toilet, but she did put tape over the flusher. I don't know...it makes me nervous. My luck, if I go in there without preparing for substitution she won't watch, and if I cram a shampoo bottle up my hoo-hah she won't take her eyes off of me. When we were tested the last time it was very informal...my ex-husband's girlfriend and I were both taken back at the same time, both taken into the bathroom, and both handed a cup. We went into the stalls, did our thing, and handed her the cups one at a time, and she read them right there in front of us. Do you think I could get away with subbing?

[Burnt Toast]

I'm pretty sure this restroom is set up for testing. It's not the public restroom. The hallway goes into a room, and there's a sink and a door. Then you go through the door into another room, where there are two stalls. There wasn't a dying agent in the toilet, but she did put tape over the flusher. Okay. What youve experienced was known as a monitored collection (as opposed to a directly observed collection) A monitored collection is utilized in two types of situations:

a) multi-stall situation - a monitor is assigned to prevent others from entering the restroom

b) Bathroom is such to where the sinks and toilet cannot be individually turned off (usually in ancient buildings to where the only shutoff is the water main outside, which turns off the entire building). A monitor is there to deter the donor from using the unsecured sinks and toilet to tamper a urine sample. The fact that the toilet bowl did not have any bluing agent was sufficient cause to assign a monitor to deter donors from scooping up the bowl water in an effort to tamper the urine sample.

In either case, the monitor is to remain outside of the stall (multi-stall), and is not there to directly watch the flow of urine exit your body and into the sample cup (thats the job of the observer in D/O situations).

However, if a monitor happens to suspect any tampering going on in the stall, the monitor can stop the collection and bring it to the attention of the collector, who would immediately order a D/O collection.

[butt3rcup29]

It is a pretty old building. I mean a reeeallly old building.

So given these circumstances, if I had a screw-off cap that didn't make noise and I put it inside to control temp, could I sub?

If I pass the home test three days before my real test, this is irrelevant anyway. It's just always good to have a plan B, and subbing sounds like a much better plan B than dilution, since there are so many things (creatinine, density, etc) that could go wrong.

[Burnt Toast]

So given these circumstances, if I had a screw-off cap that didn't make noise and I put it inside to control temp, could I sub?

Yep, as long as you dont make any noises that can tip off the monitor (not exactly an easy feat). Better brush up on your practice drills. :thumbsup:

[butt3rcup29]

Yeah, cause it's been a while. I subbed once, for pre-employment, and it worked out fine...but I spent the whole day before the test practicing and then I was beating down the door of the test center when they opened. OK, I can do this. Wow...you've really been helpful. You and the other poster both. I'd like to thank him for his pre-testing advice (maybe we should call at-home trial drug tests quizzes...haha) and I'll be sure to come back after the hearing and let you guys know how it went!

[Burnt Toast]

Wow...you've really been helpful. You and the other poster both. I'd like to thank him for his pre-testing advice (maybe we should call at-home trial drug tests quizzes...haha) Thank you. Feel free to leave a positive rep and comment for "the other poster" (by clicking on the "sherriffs star" icon at the bottom left corner of his posts) :thumbsup:

[butt3rcup29]

I did. For both of you. ;)

[Burnt Toast]

One more thing - a question that Ive overlooked:


I worry, though, that since I failed it, I will be watched during the next one. Any thoughts? It is entirely possible that this can occur, so be prepared.

As an example, in employment DOT situations, if an employee's U/A has been confirmed THC-positive, DOT regulations mandate that the followup/return to duty test would be conducted under D/O after the employee had completed the SAP process as required by the Agency.

[butt3rcup29]

Thing is, I was honest beforehand. Before we even went into the bathroom, I told the lady I was going to test positive for pot. I've never given them any reason to suspect I may be dishonest. I was just like, look, I had no idea this was going to be happening and I smoked some weed a couple days ago. She said no problem, if it's just marijuana we usually just tell you to quit and we'll test again. I told her that wasn't a problem, and then did the test, and sure enough, nothing but pot. And I've never had a drug charge or any kind of trouble with the law other than moving violations. The more I think about it, the more I think it'll probably be ok. She's working really hard with my ex-husband and I to get the kids placed back with us where they belong and out of that hell they've been subjected to...I don't think she'll make a big deal out of it. I really don't.

But, like I said, this is just plan B anyway. I'll test a few days beforehand to see if it's even necessary. And I'll go ahead and dilute if it's positive, just in case she wants to watch, but I'm going prepared with a clean sample. If I put it under my (relatively large) boob, it'll stay warm enough, and then I won't have to worry about it being in the way or falling out if she watches. Better to cover all bases. :)

[butt3rcup29]

Passed that schitt!!

Thanks so much, guys, for helping me think this through. The subbing went off without a hitch, and my little boy is home, safe and sound, and my other one is at dad's chillin for a day or two then he's coming home, too. Judge granted me custody!!

I think, after the kids go to sleep, I'm going to roll a big one and celebrate!

[Burnt Toast]

Way to go bc29...:clap:
Congrats to you on a successful sub and welcome to the Sub Club.

Best wishes..:smokin: