god

[mellow mood]

ok well i know there have been several posts about the existence of god, etc etc. but still id like you guys and girls to share your toughts.

so my first question here is: for those who beleive in god, how can u be SOOOOO sure that he exists, and that all whats written in a fuckinbook is true? i mean jeez, how can a simple human can undestand something as complicated as god?

so my toughts are: if theres a god (i dont really beleive in one but still i beleive in a superior person), well why does he exist and how. this is so stupid i mean jeez humans invented religions to give em a meaning to existence, but even there, what would be the meaning of god? this is too complicated.... oh well lol

so to conclude this shit, i read about buddhism and i find it pretty interesting. they dont really beleive in god because theyre sayin it is too much complicated anyway for the humans to understand such a thing. and so its just a waste of time trying to understand or anything god and shit like that. well i find it pretty interesting and thats the way i think.

so in fact i still dont understand how most of humans are COMPLETLY sure that THEIR god is the right and all the shit. if everyone would be buddhist there would be no fuckin war like israel-palestine n everything. comments plz i really like this discussion subject

peace to all

[hipEstoner]

i believe the same thing, i was brought up in church till i was 13 and then i thought it was poinntless, go to church once a week to hear the same thing over and over, i believe in a superior being but i lean towards buddhism more,. heres a good book on religion. Siddhartha, by hermann hesse. if everybody would read that book i bet half of the people would be having second thoughts about their religion.. oh , and Sophies world is a good book also..

[Juggalotus17]

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro.html

Scientific proof God exists, unless we're here out of that extremely, unimaginably small percentage of a random creation of a universe, perfect placement in the universe for our galaxy, etc.... just click the link and read.


Also, I'd like to point out even though I'm a Catholic Christian, I don't have all of their beliefs.

What I believe is God is real, Jesus Christ is his son. When we die, EVERYONE goes to heaven. Heaven is not a place that you just chill in when your dead, you wont have your body anymore, you'll just have your soul. This might be hard to comprehend for yall.

Everyone experiences hell right before they enter heaven. Everyone, unless you have never sinned. Each and every sin comes back and you see how much you might've hurt someone through your life. And now that you're dead, purified, and all that shit that you wont be like "oh well", you'll actually understand and beg for forgiveness before God. As long as you beg for forgiveness, you'll be accepted into heaven.

[djaio]

its difficult to describe what i believe... i'm a hindu, a buddhist, a christian, a jew, a muslim, a taoist, et cetera. yet i am none of these. i believe in myself above all.

i suppose i believe in god, but not a person, high up in the sky dictating our actions. more of a presence, an consciousness, that is a part of everything. before all of this, the world, was created, that consciousness was all there was.

but also... god is whatever you believe it to be.

i'm contradicting myself... but isn't the world one giant contradiction?

[GHoSToKeR]

First of all, juggalotus, there is no 'scientific proof' that god exists. There is only supposition, belief and opinion.

Secondly, here is a link to the book hipEstoner was talking about. You can read it online, by clicking the chapter links at the left hand side of the page.

http://www.online-literature.com/hesse/siddhartha/

[GHoSToKeR]

Juggalotus, that link you supplied was an interesting read but altogether ridiculous. The author is simply saying that because the logic of some atheists is flawed, then that must prove that God exists. The rest is just a load of random babble to try and make it seem like he/she knows what he/she is talking about. That's what it seems like to me, anyway.

[XTC]

You ask how can people of be sooo sure God exists. One thing... Faith... No I am no means a poster boy for the catholic church. I hardly if ever attend service, but Jesus once said "The Kingdom of God is in and All around you. Split a piece of Wood and I am there. Turn over a stone and I am there." See I dont believe you need a middle man between you and God.

[Encatuse]

Juggalotus, that link you supplied was an interesting read but altogether ridiculous. The author is simply saying that because the logic of some atheists is flawed, then that must prove that God exists. The rest is just a load of random babble to try and make it seem like he/she knows what he/she is talking about. That's what it seems like to me, anyway.

What do you mean that's what it seemed like to you? That's what it was. End of story. :p

PS - I believe that you're god and McCauley Caulkin ((the member here)) is a prophet speaking the divine word. These are strictly my beliefs and I would appreciate no mockery.

[GHoSToKeR]

LOL You'll get no mockery from me, mate

[amsterdam]

person believes in god=cool

person dosent believe in god=cool

[mellow mood]

yea juggalotus theres no "proofs" that god exist. sorry to dissapoint you but thats only speculations. Ive read many astronomical books and they were sayin the inverse.

And yea man i know its faith, but beleiving in something you cant understand, and that some ppl wrote a book about it and make it so simple, i find it stupid. Im still with the buddhist toughts, coz for me, humans invented religions to answer unanswerable (fuck is it a real word) questions. lol.

and yea its not coz u beleive or not in god that you are cool or not. but still, religions are creating so much problems. this pisses me off how everybody think they are right. and as you can see, you guys mostly beleive in a certain religion because you were eduquated like this. (thats why theres differents religions all concentrated in different places). anyway....

[greatgreen]

its difficult to describe what i believe... i'm a hindu, a buddhist, a christian, a jew, a muslim, a taoist, et cetera. yet i am none of these. i believe in myself above all.

i suppose i believe in god, but not a person, high up in the sky dictating our actions. more of a presence, an consciousness, that is a part of everything. before all of this, the world, was created, that consciousness was all there was.


123

[boycey58]

i'm not exactly what you'd call religious. i believe in God etc but i don't go to Church. the way i try to live is to enjoy life as i see fit just so long as it's not disrespectful/harmful/demeaning to others or the environment.

[mellow mood]

yea i like that way of thinking. buddhist are like that. one of their beleifs is to not harm any living creatures. (thats why most of em are vegetarians)

[amsterdam]

you guys know buddhism is not a religon right?its a philosophy.

[mellow mood]

well actually it is considered as one of the 5 principal religions of the world

[amsterdam]

by who??ask a buddhist,it is a philosophy.this isnt a debate.

[amsterdam]

it isnt even in the top 5?

[GHoSToKeR]

Buddhism is a religion (http://www.comedition.com/AAAA/Religion/BuddhismReligion.htm)

Is buddhism a philosophy, religion or psychology? (http://www.diamondway-buddhism.org/faq/faq.htm)

The philosophy of Buddhism (http://website.lineone.net/~kwelos/)

I think you can interpret Buddhism as a religion, psychology OR a philosophy.

[amsterdam]

fair enough.

[GHoSToKeR]

A philosophy/religion created by Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) over 2500 years ago, founded on Hindu beliefs. There are two major divisions: Mahayana and Theravada, and many subdivisions (Ch'an, or Zen, Buddhism is not really one of these). Fundamentally, Buddhists believe that one must rise above desires, to reach a state of enlightenment. Buddha was idolized, and subsequently deified, but he never claimed to be anything more than a man

who cares lol

[mrdevious]

Buddhism sounds like a religion to me. I mean if you believe in a devine force that causes reincarnation and karma and the such, I'd call that a religion. though really, karma (at least in the traditional sense) I don't really believe in. Buddha realized and shared some brilliant things, but karma seems more just the result of the influence of his Hindo heritage.

[ilovelife]

yo man im a 16 years ol hippy gangsta out the FL man just fuckin chill out dude all thsi shoti is fucked away wtih jsut chill em out and lets good times rolls on afor just chill it all out and like chill man smoke smooke some cannacasa yo get real high like ya boy peace

[mellow mood]

chill chill chill chill you can always vary you vacabulary man yea we know you chill....

oh and amsterdam, i personnaly consider it as a phylosophy, but it has been created by buddha, etc, and there are millions of people practicing this "religion". even if buddha didnt want to be praised and etc, it is still the case. and there are rituals, history etc... so a simple philosophy couldnt be like that. but you can live with some buddhist phylosophies, thats gonna be a philosophy, but not if you follow really all what is said in the 2 principal books of buddhism.

peace

[djaio]

Buddhism sounds like a religion to me. I mean if you believe in a devine force that causes reincarnation and karma and the such, I'd call that a religion.

that "divine force" is ourselves.

buddhism is buddhism. why do labels matter?

[mrdevious]

that "divine force" is ourselves.

buddhism is buddhism. why do labels matter?

So "ourselves" are the power that somehow upholds the rules of karma and reincarnates accordingly? I'm not really arguing the point, I'm just not totally clear here.

[NoosaHeads]

I dont Beleive in the "God" that the world/religion wants you to beleive in..

BUT..
I beleive in A Creator and I beleive In Different levels Of existance.

I beleive the earth realm Is one of (Not The) Lower Levels Of existance and that were here to learn certain things Before we Move onto the Next level..
I could be way Off here This Is What I beleive...

I find it Hard to beleive In the "Big Bang" Theory...


I beleive that everything happens for a reason theres NO such thing as Fate..



If you Look at Life like this you can Learn A fucking lot about yourself...


ok.I'll shut up now...Time for another Bong....Peace....;)

[Moon Grace Witch]

Hey, Mellow....Just think, if there was no "god" who would these poor suckers have to blame for their impotence? Some religio-philosophers get off the hook by saying everyone is god--Now, who gets the responsibility for the world each person lives in? And whose responsibility is it to FIX what is wrong with the world? Let's talk about that... Getting into Buddhism should help on this one. :rolleyes:

[mellow mood]

Whose responsability to fix what's wrong in the world? us man. of course if we rely on a unexistent god,(well until now it is only faith, it may exist but stil...) well yes we wont change anything. but we are the part of god. we can change things, we can do what we want. if humans would have better values, etc, there wouldn't be so much egoism and misery in the world. we have to rely on ourself.

And we have the responsability of our own life, thats why you cant destruct another life except yours.

We can change the world, but human stupidity and attachement to power and money will just bring the destruction to us. we will pay for our egoism, our nonsense lifes. we build up an individualist society.

all this to say we dont need god, and if theres one, we are part of it. we have the power to make a better world, but i guess it is too late. The End is coming soon...

[djaio]

So "ourselves" are the power that somehow upholds the rules of karma and reincarnates accordingly? I'm not really arguing the point, I'm just not totally clear here.

buddhists do not believe in a god like most other faiths do, an omnipotent creator that resides in a realm separate from us... rather, they believe divinity is within all living and non-living things.

NoosaHeads, you know exactly what youre talking about. you have wise words



The End is coming soon...


there is no absolute end or beginning. only change. your username contradicts what you say...

[mellow mood]

wel change will bring The End. who cares if u say my name is contradicting, im just sayin the reality. the world id gonna die. we are gonna die by killing our planet. thats it man. that doesnt mean i doesnt have a mellow mood.

[djaio]

if you believe that, so be it. but i believe you're underestimating nature. planets are strong. really, really, really strong. to think that humanity and its toys could wipe out life on this planet... lets just say you're giving humanity a little too much credit.

and if we die... so what? we die. death is change. change is death. the two words are interchangeable. we change because we need to.

don't get me wrong. i, too, believe that a lot of destruction is in store soon. not only common sense but just about every prophecy and prediction out there says that many people are going to die within the next few years. even modern science supports this. population growth always follows a pattern. our population has exploded, now it is plateauing. next comes the purging, be it by disease or war or famine or otherwise. but i find it unlikely that every human being will perish. maybe the more enlightened souls will survive(as tyler durden put it, "ours is a spiritual war.").

i have faith that humanity will realize its mistakes before the end. call it a cleansing.

[mellow mood]

humanity still isnt understanding its mistake, and its makin some since about so many years. dont u get the fact that money controls everyone? and yes, planet is pretty strong. planet will certainly not die, but we will.

[GHoSToKeR]

if you believe that, so be it. but i believe you're underestimating nature. planets are strong. really, really, really strong. to think that humanity and its toys could wipe out life on this planet... lets just say you're giving humanity a little too much credit.

and if we die... so what? we die. death is change. change is death. the two words are interchangeable. we change because we need to.

don't get me wrong. i, too, believe that a lot of destruction is in store soon. not only common sense but just about every prophecy and prediction out there says that many people are going to die within the next few years. even modern science supports this. population growth always follows a pattern. our population has exploded, now it is plateauing. next comes the purging, be it by disease or war or famine or otherwise. but i find it unlikely that every human being will perish. maybe the more enlightened souls will survive(as tyler durden put it, "ours is a spiritual war.").

i have faith that humanity will realize its mistakes before the end. call it a cleansing.
Another good Tyler Durden quote; "Only after disaster can we be resurrected."

[Moon Grace Witch]

Excellent exchange! As a pagan witch I believe the planet is a living entity...But there is only so much Mother can do without a little help from people. Here is that word, again...take responsibility for the immediate effect you can have. We can do some things to assist OUR survival on the planet...I see that as participating in the Divine.
But eventually, like all living things, the way we know the Earth will change and that will mean our species will either adapt/evolve or we will not be participants here any longer. Beyond that...just look at the universe around you--galaxies colllide, stars go nova...a billion things can occur. Yet these are all natural events... Nature, the Mother of us all.

[katisse]

God...a being of infinite and boundless existance. Far beyond our scope of comprehension. So the debates continue. Whos right, whos wrong, which religion takes precedence, and so on. Call this being Allah, God, Yahweh, Jehova, whatever. The best a person can do I think...is have faith in something, and to realize we arent just some accidental event. Neither are the animals, the very earth, the sea or space. Personally, I 'feel' that theres a supreme being, that I call God, but I nor anyone else will ever prove there is such. Thats what faiths about.

[brokndwn06]

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro.html

Scientific proof God exists, unless we're here out of that extremely, unimaginably small percentage of a random creation of a universe, perfect placement in the universe for our galaxy, etc.... just click the link and read.


Also, I'd like to point out even though I'm a Catholic Christian, I don't have all of their beliefs.

What I believe is God is real, Jesus Christ is his son. When we die, EVERYONE goes to heaven. Heaven is not a place that you just chill in when your dead, you wont have your body anymore, you'll just have your soul. This might be hard to comprehend for yall.

Everyone experiences hell right before they enter heaven. Everyone, unless you have never sinned. Each and every sin comes back and you see how much you might've hurt someone through your life. And now that you're dead, purified, and all that shit that you wont be like "oh well", you'll actually understand and beg for forgiveness before God. As long as you beg for forgiveness, you'll be accepted into heaven.


what about suicide? you could kill yourself and go to heaven? For the last paragraph :confused:

[Delta9]

Fasting is abnormal in the United States.

Buddism? Do you like to eat insects?
Insect make up a large portion of Southeast Asian diet, as well as India, China and Japan.

In America we just stuff our faces and don't think twice.

[JSTA]

I kind of went away from Christianity for many reasons. One being that people are bred to believe the Christian values. Kind of like in Brave New World, they're born to believe societies ways. It seems as though most people who go to church, either shouldn't be there in the first place because it's pointless for them or they go because they feel they should go. This is a big issue for me because I live in a rich white neighborhood where image is everything. If people don't see you at church they begin to wonder.......
To be honest with ya'll, I just dont' know yet if God exists. I've always been told he exists by church or what not, but NOTHING in my life explains his existence. Maybe one day I'll find the path I was meant to walk, but I'm just living life as of now :).
IMO, there's truth and happiness. You can be a very religious person, which is a commitment. I believe it's a jaded view on how things are, but faith produces happiness. Then there's the way of truth, which just says that there is nothing there. I'd like to believe there is a heaven, but I honestly don't think it exists. I think mellow mood made an awesome point by saying that humans created religion to explain the unexplainable. I think that's very true. If I was to become a Christian again, i'd probably be a Deist. That's the way I was steering.

[djaio]

watch the matrix series, while imagining the following:

humans = nature
machines = humans

then it becomes a very powerful metaphor.

[Ganjamon420]

For most of my life I went to a Christain Church, up untill the priest asked me to put more money in the collection tray. Then I became a Baptist, I was baptized here and didn't think much of it. Most of my life was shitty and I was abused as a child and I was always told by the Church that if I asked for help I would get it, every night I prayed and I belived I would get what I asked for from the ALMIGHTY GOD. I never asked for things I wanted only things I needed such as to stop the abuse....it never happened. At the age of 13 I became an athiest and started reading. I tend to lean more toward the Wiccan religion as there is no god and there is no devil, no heaven and no hell. I believe that Earth is our creator along with the elements. "The Devil" is not the devil, He is Mulengro and he exists in everyone of us. The Church tells us he is The Devil and should be suppressed and ignored. Quote from the book "Witchcraft Theory and Practice" "Within Mulengro resides our ability to protect as well as to procreate and perpetuate, our sense of union with our planet and with those things on our planet that have not yet been subdued, tamed or destroyed, and our ability to work sympathetic magic." Mulengro has 7 faces and they are referred to The Seven Deadly Sins. Well I that is my opinion. Peace and Love

[Ganjamon420]

Poem from the book "The Feast of Flesh & Spirit" by Ly de Angeles

Mulengro

I know your Name now, you Liar!
You, the killing machine of the soul!
I'll tell!
I'll tell!
If they can hear me they will know your Name also!
Too late! You are known: "Divide and Conquer"!
YOU ARE THE LIE THAT CLOSES OFF THE GATE!!
Your Faces, they are 7!
Your essences, they are 7!
Your Powers, thay are 7!
And together they are you! Mulengro!


You are Greed!
You are Envy!
You are Guilt!
You are Deceit!
You are Denial!
You are Expectation!!
You are Assumption!!

Peace

[mellow mood]

JSTA, how can faith bring you happiness? its only an answer to an impossible question (is there a god). i dont get it, please explain

[JSTA]

I mean to say, you look at all the Christians/Jews/Mormons, they all seem happy to me. I'm talking about the HARDCORE ones. In my opinion though, they're being brainwashed. That's where it goes back to, "do you want happiness, or do you want the truth". I don't know if you've ever read Brave New World, but if you did, it'd be easier to make more sense out of what I was sayin. For me, growing up Christian, believing in God, and then all of a sudden realizing he's just nto there can be kind of depressing. It was hard for me to take at first. But I honestly believe that that's the truth. Did that help at all? lol

[mellow mood]

yea. i can understand people find a meaning in life by beleiving in a god. the question they dont ask to theirselves tho is: whats the purpose of a god? lol. all this is nonsense

[LearyS Disciple]

[QUOTE]I beleive that everything happens for a reason theres NO such thing as Fate..[NoosaHeads/QUOTE]

[LearyS Disciple]

I beleive that everything happens for a reason theres NO such thing as Fate..


isnt that sentence a paradox? if you belive that everything happens for a reason isnt that the same thing as beliving in fate?

[Ganjamon420]

Acctually Fate and Destiny are two seperate concepts, Fate is a place you will end up living or a career you have. Destiny is "everything happens for a reason".

[LearyS Disciple]

are you sure its not the other way around? youre probably right though

[djaio]

JSTA, how can faith bring you happiness? its only an answer to an impossible question (is there a god). i dont get it, please explain

...

yea. i can understand people find a meaning in life by beleiving in a god. the question they dont ask to theirselves tho is: whats the purpose of a god? lol. all this is nonsense

alright man, listen.

not everyone that believes in god is an unquestioning bible-thumping christian that goes to church three days a week. don't ask about our beliefs if all you're going to do is tell everyone they don't understand anything and whine about humanity's imminent death.

not everyone places their beliefs on faith and hope. many actually have real reasons and experiences to account for their belief in god. for some who have caught a glimpse of infinity, god is as real as the computer you're typing at(those who have had a good shroom trip should know what i'm talking about...).

[mellow mood]

oh man im totally agreeing. i know people may beleive pretty hard in god and etc, and im not sayin at all that i have the truth etc. if u read what i wrote carefully, all what i said up there is that even if there were a god (and im pretty opened to this idea), well why would he be there?

i mean what would it change? really? ask you this question man. whats his own purpose? do u agree if the entire universe would explode right now that would make no difference? who would know it dissapeared?

and if god has its own purpose what is it? im opened to the idea there may be a superior force, but anyway this is too complicated for humans to understand. why would i lose my time trying to answer to this question? why would i lose my time praying for something im not even sure it exist? if theres a god what does he fuckin do to make this world better? nothing man.

humans invented religions=fact

obviously if we could prove theres no god, ppl would lose what they think as the meaning of life.

[Ganjamon420]

When i first started questioning god i asked the same question, but more often my question was what is our purpose? I used to think maybe this is his game, kinda like The Sims. If i am going to be born just to die, i mean come on, it doesn't make sense. Then the church says "well this life is a test for the next life". Well fuck if your going to judge me then do it all ready. why waste my time. Peace

[djaio]

oh man im totally agreeing. i know people may beleive pretty hard in god and etc, and im not sayin at all that i have the truth etc. if u read what i wrote carefully, all what i said up there is that even if there were a god (and im pretty opened to this idea), well why would he be there?

i mean what would it change? really? ask you this question man. whats his own purpose? do u agree if the entire universe would explode right now that would make no difference? who would know it dissapeared?

and if god has its own purpose what is it? im opened to the idea there may be a superior force, but anyway this is too complicated for humans to understand. why would i lose my time trying to answer to this question? why would i lose my time praying for something im not even sure it exist? if theres a god what does he fuckin do to make this world better? nothing man.

humans invented religions=fact

obviously if we could prove theres no god, ppl would lose what they think as the meaning of life.

i cant speak for others but... you misunderstand my image of god. its not like we have our world, and then god is up there away from us to make things better or worse. no. thats the big misunderstanding in modern christianity... that god is separate from the universe. god IS the universe. god is a part of everything, and everything is a part of god. we are the body of god. so what is god? thats what i wonder. are we all just tiny atoms and we make up a cell in a chunk of flesh of an unimaginable being we know as god? and if thats true, aren't we all a god, each with our own universe inside of us? (funny that atoms are structured so similarly to solar systems...).

that, my friend, is what infinity is. but i digress...

the metaphor that comes to mind right now is... god is not a guy sitting at a computer playing sim city, and if he leaves everything goes to chaos. god is more like the programming of the game. or maybe it's both the programming AND the guy. i don't know, im tired... metaphors are never perfect.

[GHoSToKeR]

"(funny that atoms are structured so similarly to solar systems...)"

This isn't actually true. Scientists use the model of little 'balls' all orbiting around eachother, but in actual fact this model is only usded to describe what is actually happening in an easily understandable way. It is believed to be more likely that the components of an atom are more like 'strings' of energy.

[mellow mood]

well djaio thats what im saying since the beggining of this thread man. i said if theres a god he haves to be all. so we are obviously part of god if he does exist. but isnt there a funny paradoxe in that? if theres a god, and he must be all, how can there be an evil? evil would be in good? haha totally nonsense man ill just reapeat what im saying since years: god is too complicated to be undertood. so im not wasting my time thinkin does he exists or not and if yes where etc...

peace

[JSTA]

^^^There ya go man. Donnie Darko style. Dont' waste your time asking the questions that you'll never find an answer to.