White widow problem?

[d0ct0r]

I am 6 days into flowering and have noticed two things.. one the lower half of the plants leaf tips are curling down which i think is P so therefore not enough nutrients but at the same time every top is bright yellow almost looks like nutrient burn. To anyone that has tried growing this strain were your tops bright yellow? I have a moisture meter and only ever feed/feed/water and repeat when dry as ive read you must let them completely dry out then drench to avoid air pockets and roots growing upwards.. My feed is at 25% strength with boiled, filtered water which i dont need to PH using Plant magic plus.

The whole plant is a lush green and i have had no problems through veg really healthy and strong but bright yellow tops. I have topped twice super cropped to an extent and tied her down, ive got 8 tops bright yellow...

[d0ct0r]

What is your experience level? 2nd timer

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. Veg for 6 weeks with T5 flourescent then 600W HPS for Flower
.2) Distance from tops? 15cm
.3) Reflector type? Bulb with canopy reflector
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? 6" inch extractor at top left of room next to bulb with x4 3" holes cut into lower right of room (plastic mesh filter screens) Im using the exhuast fan effectively as the fresh air supply by sucking all the hot air out (major suction at air intake holes i made)
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? 6" extractor fan with filter and an oscillating circulation fan concentrated on the tops until i read about the plant concentrating on strength of stems instead of flower at this stage. Due to my veg cycle developmemnt tieing down and topping with fans i have very strong stems at this point so ive moved the fan to circulate air around the lower half of plant so she can concentrate on flowers.
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 600W not sure of kelvins but its a sunmaster bulb and 12/12 atm

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) Seedling soil for first 2 weeks then transplanted to a brand "special mix" from hydro shop containing perlite and enough nutrients for up to 6 weeks veg depending on pot size (when she started to yellow the special mix is done so into flower)
.8) Size of container. 10L pot with very good drainage and clay pebbles at lower half inch inside pot (thought this would help with air and drainage)
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? Germinated seedlings with enviro stat and heat pad in seedling soil

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? Tap, boiled, filtered and left to stand for 24hrs for chlorine to evaporate. Hydro shop told me i dont need to PH with the nutrients they gave me.
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit.) as above but i checked my tap water with a capsule in tiny bottle from garden centre and it was light green so about 7
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) As above hydro shop said i dont have to with this type of nutrients
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. Plant magic plus, veg grow 5-3-3 plant magic plus, bloom 3-5-4. Im using 25% mix then 50% then 100% getting stronger as plant has and monitoring everyday. Now in flower im using the same routine so im using 25% at the moment including additives.
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? I have a moisture meter and water/feed when reading dry as ive read its best to let them completely dry out. I feed, feed, water, and repeat. I give them 1 litre and discard the excess in tray as ive read itll rot the roots if you dont drain the excess
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) Additives recommended by hydro shop are plant magic root stimulant and plant magic bio silicon mixed at strength relative to nutrient strength.
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? As above so id assume stable given what the hydro shop told me
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? As above
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? My research has shown its best not to spray foliar as if you dont it encourages the plant to produce resin to protect itself from drying out..

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? 1m wide 1m deep and 2m high
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? No specific temperature control system but with light on and exhuast fan going a steady 22 degrees and about a ten degreee drop with lights off. No humidity control system but thought about a fogger until i read about resin development when naturally dry
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? Week 4 of veg silver sheen holes on 2 lower leaves which i think were the micro flies "thrips" but after removing those leaves i havnt seen anymore problems.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) White widow 60% indica
24) From seeds or clones? Seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? Not as far as i know but i had pistils during the whole veg cycle which ive read is quite common

[pushit]

The bright yellow tops could be from a big temp change when you switched to flowering. What are your lights on temps and the temps when the lights are off? Does it look similar to this pic? I stole this pic off the internet.
284448

[PhatJay]

What size pots are you using? In the other thread you mentioned she is drinking a litre every 6 hours.

You have just put her into flower and she is in her growth spurt. I think she may just be a bit hungry.

[d0ct0r]

That photo is exactly like my white widow.. ive just checked my morning temperature and its as low as 8 degrees. I now need to invest in a temperature control system and some sort of heater but im tight for space and money. I have a small habistat heat pad and controller for my clones but believe i need an air temperature heater so its time open the wallet again. An after thought to PH.. if what the hydro shop has told me is true and i dont need to PH then everytime i just water and not feed im shocking her everytime with a PH indifference as i boil then filter my water and add nutrients or leave to stand. So my PH levels must be different from just water to water and feed. Shopping list is getting bigger, a meter and PH controllers.. Im using ten litre pots, i keep a log of all feed and water and have noticed when i feed its dry within hours but when i water its roughly 24 hours before dry. I wanted to diagnose the yellow tops before i continue with my feeding schedule and i think pushit youve done it so thankyou and i will keep you updated. Any suggestions on heating systems? Ive seen a tube heater available but ill need two, one for my veg room and one for flower.. i honestly thought the HPS would provide enough heat for the flower room but the exhuast fan must be doing its job a little too well. Could i connect a climate controller to the exhuast fan and use that to regulate temp or would that lead to smell problems? That wont help me with the light off tho..
Am i right in saying you want a ten degree drop in temp during dark period so id be aiming for 30 degrees down to 20 degrees?
Thanks again d0ct0r

[d0ct0r]

The cheapest solution i can think of is x2 fan heaters x2 timers. 1 timer set for dark with fan heaters variable thermostat set at 20 degrees. The other timer set for light periods with heater set at 30 degrees..? How do you rate the cheap fan heaters as a solution?? would i then have humidity issues? If the fan heaters are suitable they would be working all the time to maintain those temperatures so could i then remove my air circulation fans? This setup as i need two therefore 4 of everything will cost 60 whereas the tube and climate controller hits about 120 each!. If successful i hope shell survive the climate change...
d0ct0r

[PhatJay]

Im using ten litre pots, i keep a log of all feed and water and have noticed when i feed its dry within hours but when i water its roughly 24 hours before dry.

How big are the plants?

[pushit]

The hps does put out a lot of heat but you have to keep in mind that its only running 12 hours a day instead of 18. A ten degree drop is fine as long as your temps stay under 85 and above 65 degrees. I usually run mine about 80 lights on and close to 70 lights off. You could always get one of those mini space heaters on a timer or an inline fan to blow room temp air into the room while the lights are off. Whichever you decide, just make sure that you havent created any light leaks. Hang out in that room with the lights off for about 10 min so your eyes adjust and youll be able to find any leak. Good luck!

[d0ct0r]

My girls (fingers crossed) one in flower is nearly 2 foot high and one in veg is half that as she is seriosly cropped, topped and tied down due to space limitations which im hoping to clone, sex and hopefully keep as mother.
I went for a mini oscillating fan heater with variable thermostat as being in a cold climate and starting "early" ive been dealing with very cold weather and after reading your post im concerned about the climate she is now used to (well below 65 at between 40 to 60 and as low as 30 at night)
I have a mini dial type thermostat located on top of soil and have just recorded 64, today its been about 55 outside so on colder days and nights....
The heaters thermostat doesnt display temperature so ive spent the last few hours calculating the setting needed and am hoping ive got it right. Ultimately using this heater will create a major "climate shift" (to 80/70) which might on cold days turn on during light hours aswell. Ive noticed the yellow is starting to fade, if the temperature changes ahead are going to shock her will she recover? will the shock cuase her to create male parts aswell? One really worried doctor...
d0ct0r

[pushit]

I usually will get yellow tops when i put them in my flower room. It usually takes a couple weeks for them to get back to their normal color but they eventually get there. You should be fine once the temps are under control. Maybe set back a couple days to a week for recovery. I havent had any hermie issues from this but that doesnt mean it cant happen. Just keep a close eye on her for nanners. With it being this early in flower everything should be good. Hell i do my final transplant within the first two weeks of flowering without ever having any problems. Good luck and keep us updated.

[d0ct0r]

Quick update... after also noticing excess phosphours (red), ive flushed her and made a few adjustments on the heater. Outside temperature last night was 29 and i maintained 65 with the lights off :thumbsup:
Found a website specific to white widow... they do not like being overfed even 25% is too much, some people dont feed until about 6 weeks into flower. Nothing but water and a gradual climate change is the plan. Thankyou both for all your help and ill keep updating my progress
d0ct0r

[silent leprechaun]

Just a tip on your heating idea

I am an LED grower and my light runs completely cool. What I do for heat is incorporate 4 x 20w CFL. The nights can be quite cool so I have the lights come on at night to compensate.

I just find it a better idea to heat with light where you can. Perhaps if your days are cold as well as your nights heaters might be your best solution.

But definitely think of heating with light if you can manage it :)

Take care !

[d0ct0r]

The mini heater fan set for lights off maintained a good temperature but also created hot spots in the room so after several days and many dried/burnt leaves the heater was removed.

I believe it would be a good solution for a bigger room but not for my space so the whole cabinet is now super insulated. I backed off the feed until she started yellowing and am using about 25% strength, so far so good.

Looking back at all the temperature issues ive been having next grow ill have lights on period at night when its coldest, and lights off during day when hottest. State the obvious there but didnt think of it at the time.

d0ct0r