First Time Grower using 2 LED UFO's and 2 CFL

[lamen25]

Hey everyone, another newbie here. Trying to grow Nirvana White Widow in a 4'x4'x6' grow room built in a basement. Using 2 23watt CFL 5000K bulbs, and 1 Lighthouse LED 100 watt UFO and 1 ProsourceWorldWide 90 watt LED Illuminator. The first 10 days of my grow was without heat. Basement temp seems to be somewhere around 60 to 65 degrees F. Added heater to keep temp around 84F, and growth rate was better, and about 10 days after that added 6" Fan. I topped it on the 11th (last Wednesday) Day 22. My plant looks small for 26 days compared to what I've seen here.My first thought is whether these 2 UFO's and 2 CFL's are sufficient enough for 1 plant, maybe 2. I have been looking at 250 watt HPS systems on ebay. Don't know if I'm gonna get a decent grow using these LED's. And the other thing that puzzles me is since it's cool in the basement even though the grow room is enclosed, I'm wondering if the HPS will keep it a lil warmer in there whereby I won't have to run the heater? I've seen good results from LED's and the HPS systems are no doubt the best. Went with LED trying to protect the electric bill, but to be honest, I'm running240 watts with the 2 LED's and the 2 CFL's. Heck I figure I might as well run a 250 HPS system and it may be a lil cheaper on electricty especially if I don't have to run the heater.

Soil Medium - Miracle Grow - Planted seedlings in cup size biodegradable pots.
Nutes - Miracle Grow Plant Food - 24-8-16, started Day 25 yesterday, using according to directions, 1/2 tsp per 1 gallon water, and won't use anymore until i water twice without nutes.
1. Concerned about the present size for 26 days, and wondering if I have enough light for a couple of plants.
Maybe I'm impatient due to first grow too.284025284026284027
What's the verdict people? Let me have it? I'm a newbie and I can take it. LOL

[lamen25]

Another piece of info that may be helpful,
Started vegging once I saw 2 leaves appear with the Lighthouse 100 Watt LED, no heater nor Fan. Temp inside grow room, Don't know, but it wasn't warm enough from what I've noticed lately. The 10th day added Pro Source Illuminator 90 watt LED and heater. Temp 78. 10 days later, I added the Fan, in the top, and now Temp is higher but less humid. A lot of the growth now is from this past week.
Am I running about a week to 10 days later than I should be on growth? Because of the way I started?

[lamen25]

Here are a couple of pics from day 28. Got another seedling starting growth, Dinafem White Widow. I need some input on this. Is my plant looking ok especially for day 28? What's the minimum height before going into flowering?

[lamen25]

Ok, made some changes

The MG potting soil and Perlite I used created a gnat problem. Changed Potting Soil to Evergreen Potting Soil, (50% Composted Pine Fines, 35% Composted Hardwood Fines, 10% Sand, 5% Perlite), and added Worm Castings (1 part to 3 parts Soil, and 1 part Vermiculite. The roots were a foot long when transplanted. Presently using the 2 UFO's and 1 Daylight 5000K 23watt ( 100watt equivalent) CFL. And learning how to water about every 5 days of so. Also learning how to LEAVE IT ALONE. Temp is 29C->85 F,because that's what ProSource recommends

Got a Seedling that's in a 3" Jiffy Pot, rotating it between the Grow room at night and outside in 85 F temps during the day. Just for a lil while.

Here's a few pics

These unfortunately are Day 40. Yes, she's small but progressing. I topped it between the 3rd and 4th nodes about 3 weeks ago, and 3 tops appeared.

Remember, She's in a basement with a heater where its stays. And the temps here lately have been around 85 to 93 the last few days.

Whatcha Think? Are we on the right track?

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[lamen25]

Changed lighting to 20/4 from 18/6.

[silent leprechaun]

Hey dude,
Good to see your new thread. I am liking the set up.
There is just a couple of things I would change if it was my set up.
Firstly I would bring in to question the loss of energy in the form of the heater. I would drop the heater and replace it with more CFLs.
The reason I would do this is because those CFL give off a nice bit of heat which can be used for your grow area. Why not heat with more light? the plants will love you for it.

The second thing would be addressing your worry regarding the intensity of your light. You are currently using almost 250w in light alone. That is about the same as me although our LEDs are from different manufacturers and most likely contain different quality LEDs. To test the strength of you LEDs put a plant in between them and move the LEDs apart, then angle the LEDs at the plant and see which one the plants begin to turn to after a day or 2. If the plants stay in the same place then they may be of equal power.

The third thing would be the gnat problem you spoke of. It isn't really your soil type that promotes gnats development. It is normally over-watering. But believe me I have seen my share of those little bastards through over-watering. I use a product called 'Neem Oil' or 'Neem Oil Extract' to take care of them. You need to kill those little guys fast before they destroy your plant. You will be surprised the damage they can do and just how fast your plants will die. Add 3ml of soap/detergent to 1 litre of warm water and mix well, then add 5ml of pure neem oil and shake until the soap helps the oil to mix well with the water. Them spray al the plants leaves, the grow area, the water trays the base of the pots and then pour the rest into the next watering. This should kill the gnats over time. It will not kill them straight away, it confuses them so bad they die, they don't eat, have sex, fly etc.

also try to get those CFL much closer and try to make a reflector. You are losing far too much light. Try to move the LED as close as possible and be sure they are directed at the plants. The probably on have a 60 degree spread. But be careful you dont bleach the plants. You need to find the perfect distance and reading the plants behaviour will tell you that. Plants speak to us ;)

Could you tell me the distance betwen the nodes on the plant ? the distance between each set of leaves, this can tell you if the lights are too close or too far away.

Good luck with it and keep up the good work and posts ;)

S.L.

[steezyd]

You have two plants right?I would shut off one LED all together, just put the pots as close together as they can and hang one ufo 6 inches from the top directly over it, get those weak cfls out of there all together, the led is way stronger and should be utilized to the fullest...also keep your temps between 70-76, thats when cannabis thrives and it will cut your heater cost slightly...another thing, Im not a fan of MG, I would go with foxfarm oceanic blend next time, for 28 days your plant looks tiny, what is it 6-7 inches? do you have exhaust fan running 24 hours in that bitch? plants need constant fresh air, if you dont have one, I would hit up ebay and check out a "6 inch inline exhaust fan", there like $30 and only use a half amp of power, just mount it in the ceiling of your grow room(preferebly the opposite side of your intake , and dont just get a regular fan and put it in there blowing, its not the same thing, the fan has to be the exit point so air will travel through the entire grow room)

[silent leprechaun]

I dont understand why steezyd advised to start removing one og your LED lights and both of your CFLs to be honest.

The plants need more light not less... I think my advice would be better in adding some 85w CFLs and losing the heater. For the same cost of running the heater you will keep the temps up and give the plants plenty of light.

I will agree with steezyd that the plant is looking a little small for this stage, especially with 200w of LED and 50w of CFL around it.
Perhaps, as steezyd mentioned, your ventilation might not be enough and also you might not have adequate air circulation.

You should invest in a grow tent. it will make the world of difference.

[steezyd]

The only reason I say that is because a buddy of mine uses one UFO for veg(a cheap chinese one too), and in 3 weeks to a month hell have 15"-18" plants easy, maybe a little bigger, and he stretchs that things light coverage area so thin too, he puts like 6-12 plants or more under one in 5 inch pots...once they hit 15-18" they either go outside, or he transplants them to 3 gallon pots and mothers them out to take clones, and once in 3G pots, he can fit 4 full size plants(18-28") under one UFO....to have two UFOs AND 2 cfls to me for two little plants just seems like a complete waste to me, redirect that electricity torwards proper ventilation....but my buddy has great air movement & ventilation with a proper exhaust/intake system, he also uses a soil less medium(sunshine#4) and adds his own nutrients though....which is the way to go in my opinion.

[lamen25]

Thanks for the info Steezyd and Silent Leprechaun.

I've lowered the temp to 74. I've been looking into a 4" inline Charcoal System along the lines of this.

Thank you for the tip about the circulation. Steezyd, you said it right. I've got that 6" Desk Fan positioned in the upper left corner of this room blowing downward, and as you have said, It's not circulating any fresh air unless I open the front of the room.

And I wondered why my plant is small. Yes, 6" right now.
The reason for the second plant is a test. Wanted to see how much faster it would grow without topping it, but I will probably do some LST on it, and I've just LST'd the Big Plant. haha The way it's growing I figured I'd have another month of Vegging.

Again, thanks for the tips guys. Will look into the Inline Fan. I know I'm gonna need it anyway due to the smell in a lil while.

I changed the soil medium from the MG on Monday to an Evergreen Potting soil 3 parts and added 1 part Worm Castings. and 1 part Vermiculite. Transplanted into a 3 gallon pot as well. I think that's had some affect on this past weeks' growth, but it should have been a lot better.

The pic below is Day 44. LOL, I know I know, but this is fun learning what to do and how to do it.
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[lamen25]

Hey Guys, How's this filter setup? I don't know anything about this. Are they hard to setup?
HTG Supply - A GrowBright 4" Inline Fan & Carbon Filter Combo (http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-A-GrowBright-4in-Inline-Fan-&-Carbon-Filter-Combo.asp)

[steezyd]

The 4 inch fan/filter combo looks good, 170 cfm is about dead on for your cfm requirements for a 4x4x6 room...but you said you have the fan mounted in the top corner of your room blowing at your plants?You need to do the opposite. What you need to do is when you get that 4 inch exhaust fan is make a 4inch hole in the far corner of your ceiling, then hang your charcoal filter from the ceiling right at your 4 inch hole...buy some 4 inch ducting too, connect it to your now hanging charcoal filter then run it through the 4 inch hole you made and connect it to your exhaust fan , turn that bitch on 24 hours a day all day everyday sucking the air out of the room...try to completely exhaust the air outside, or in a attic or garage if you can, you DO NOT want to recirculate the same exhaust air over and over, fresh air supply directly from outside would be nice, but as long as your exhausting the air somewhere else youll be good. if your door has a good sized crack at the bottom that will probably be good enough for the intake too, when you install the fan you should be able to put your hand at the base of the door and feel suction.(not crazy vacum suction, just a nice gentle breeze.,...) if not you may have to make a tiny 2 inch intake(half the size of your exhaust).

peace

[steezyd]

http://www.cultivatecolorado.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/grow-room-exhaust-1.jpg

http://www.cultivatecolorado.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/grow-room-exhaust.2jpg.jpg



here are some basic grow room principals....

[lamen25]

Thank You Steezyd and Silent Leprechaun. I saw your initial post Leprechaun a lil late, and I am watering less frequently now. I don't want anymore flying critters around. Steezyd, thank you for the info on installing the Inline Fan. I think I was reading your mind, because I took that 6" desk fan and flipped it around just as you mentioned. I also cut a hole in the ceiling and I left an opening in the front of the Curtain just enough to allow some air flowing through.

It's gonna be a couple of weeks before I can get the inline Fan, so this will do for now. We are progressing nicely, but I'm thinking I'm gonna take this plant into flowering once the other little plant gets of height. Here are some pics.

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[lamen25]

Also, made one change. LST'd using some chord on one side, and small hangers on the other 2 sides. Hope this spreads this plant out a Lil bit.

[lamen25]

Latest Update
Plant is coming along nicely, with a lot of growth over the last week. I'm not sure why the nice growth versus before, but I think Ventilation was a big problem, but since have an exit area in the top for better venting. Another problem with the stunted growth was over watering. Now I water about every 5 to 7 days. Changing my soil medium from MG potting soil to 3 parts Evergreen Potting Soil 1 part Worm Castings, and 1 part Vermiculite was possibly another reason for the latest growth. Also, topping it at a young age also caused a lil stunting or recovering. I'm thinking about June 1st going into flowering.

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The first pic is from April 14th Day 25 and topped, next April 22nd was Day 33. and the last 2 pics are 5-16 Day 57.

[lamen25]

Day 19 of flowering, and progressing. Using Jack's Classic All Purpose and Blossom Buster for Nutes. Alternating between water and Nutes every watering cycle anywhere from 4 to 6 days on the big one, and 7 to 10 days on the smaller one.
The 2nd CFL is being used in another room for now, but will rejoin the group in a lil while.
Patience is a Virtue, and I don't have much. But in this case, I have no choice.
Hey Silent Leprechaun, I'm had to stay with the lighting I have. Figured I'd better not change the lighting during the flowering process.
Also trimmed some fan leaves from different areas on the larger one.
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[silent leprechaun]

Cool, things are looking great. Try not to trim too much off the large fan leaves. They are good producers of nutrients.

Try to get speed control added to your extractor. My extractor is on the lowest speed setting all the way through the grow and it works great.

The carbon filter prefers the air to move slowly through it. This will also keep the noise to a minimum.

My ladies are in bloom too. I think this harvest will be a very big one ! The plants are growing great.

Try to get some pictures of the buds in more natural light. Its very difficult to see the plant when its bright pink :)

[lamen25]

LOL, You are a mind reader. I was wondering about my picture taking. haha I will get a couple more pics out there. Yes, I saw your posts and will comment shortly. Thanks Silent Leprechaun.

[lamen25]

Maybe this pic is a lil better. 284926