Question about Cloning in late flowering. Need advice

[Salvein211]

Ok so like the title implies, I cloned my White Skunk and Blackberry strains when they were 2 weeks, maybe 3, from harvest. Why? Well I really wanted to see if it was possible, and I didn't really take into account a few things (obviously). I have a lack of space and didn't see having two separate rooms, one for veg, one for flower, so I wanted to see if this method worked. Ok, on to the question!

My clones took root, took quite a while to start growing again and change back to veg, but they have and are doing very well. (All of them have multiple cola's!) So in a sense, these are 2nd generation clones since they've had a flowering process. My question is: If I were to take additional clones from these 2nd gen clones, would my potency die off soon? I know the ideal way is to keep a mother plant(s) in veg for it's whole life, and take your clones from that as you need them. But since I've flowered them once, would it be worth it to keep these strains alive, or start over? I'd be making 2 of these 2nd gen clones mother plants... one for both strains. Which would make me reconfigure my setup a little but it seems like it's a must. It's not like growing a new strain is a bad thing however ... :jointsmile:

Advice appreciated, thanks.

[GaGrown]

It's possible to this... But.. Not advised.. Thet are gonna take forever to root. For the simple fact that when you are in flower they are projecting their energy to just that.... Flower. When ya take the cutting and put it under 18/6 schedule you are in a sense tryin' to reveg and veg at the same time... They are two seperate entities.. If ya took cuttings in flower.. Then it should had been during the first couple of days into the cycle.. Cutting fom vegg state is the sure fire way to get roots to produce.. They are gonna concentrate on revegging and not growing roots. As long as you keep them misted and your medium moist and humidity high,Then all that you will see happen is the stems start to rot. The foliar feeding is the only thing keeping them looking like they are gonna make it.


I keep a fresh mama for cuttings.. I change her after about 3-4 years.. I keep them going by revegging. Never compromising potentcy.. But a clone from a clone from a clone,etc.. Will eventually lose it vigor as well as potentcy.Hope I shinned a light on things for ya!

Ga.

[Salvein211]

Thanks for the reply.
The clones I took from the flowering plants are very well rooted and have grown to over 1' . They are nice and bushy with a strong root system. I was just wondering if I were to clone these 2nd gen plants, how long I could keep these clones as mothers before potency would linger off.. ?

[GaGrown]

Flower the clones ya have and reveg. You lose nothing! Same plant same traits.. The clones will act a lil' different than the first clones and so on. Did that make sense? Revegging saves everthing you have worked so hard to keep! Have you ever done it?


Ga.

[Salvein211]

Hm... I have never revegged, but I have thought about it and know what it is. Instead of chopping your beautiful ladies to a bare stump, you clip the buds off as best you can, and then change light spectrum and time to 18/6. I've heard you only get about half the yield as before, and once you reveg, you might as well yard out the plants after that, correct? You can't just keep revegging your plants, can you?

Thanks Ga for your input

[GaGrown]

Thats how I keep mine 3-4 years.Sometimes I won't even take cuttings... Reveg then flower and back to reveg. Never ending cycle. I've never had one lose vigor.. They even produce more than the first flowering at times or the same.. Never been less. But I use a 10/14 flowering schedule. And since I changed from 12/12.. They have all been better producing. The trick to the reveg is trimming the rootball and transplanting the day of harvest. Go on and get all the stress outta the way at one time. Instead of stressing it several times.

Ga.

[Salvein211]

Interesting.. I run hydro btw, so I can almost get away from trimming the rootball... 5gal buckets with airstones. So right after you pick your fruit, you reveg at 18/6 until flower, which you then roll with 14/10 correct? About how long do you reveg before you hit your flower switch again? I guess this completely differs upon your setup.

[GaGrown]

Ahhhh... Makes sense! I'm about to flower and reveg a DWC plant. Don't roll with 10/14! That is what I run the strains I grow. It may have adverse affects on your strain.. Lots of things! This is just an experiment of mine with what I have. None tested outside of the 2 of mine. Oh... There is another strain. So 3..

Same set up as me.. I got 10 inch net pots and 5 gal. bucket. Dual air pump 3 inch round airstone. Still won't hurt to cut the root ends off some as soon as you harvest. That's what I'm gonna do without givin' it a second thought.. It'll be fine!

Ga.

[CanGroIt]

I thought it was impossible to root a cutting that late into flowering???.... I've never had a reason to try....just thought that the hormones wouldn't react....

If what you say is true....please post your cloning method.... Inquiring minds want to know how you did it....

CGI::::::

[GanjaRobPDX]

Its up to you whether or not you want to reveg your plant or if the genetics are something that really helps you. If you are using it for a medical condition and it helps, consider saving it.
If not, know your plant will be negatively effected by revegging. even though you cloned it, thats essentially what you,ve done. every time you do this it is severely stressful to the plant. Stress can manifest many problems in many forms: slower growth, lower potency, lower yields, hermies especially.
Just be aware of these things as you experiment.

Hope this helps...

[GaGrown]

Its up to you whether or not you want to reveg your plant or if the genetics are something that really helps you. If you are using it for a medical condition and it helps, consider saving it.
If not, know your plant will be negatively effected by revegging. even though you cloned it, thats essentially what you,ve done. every time you do this it is severely stressful to the plant. Stress can manifest many problems in many forms: slower growth, lower potency, lower yields, hermies especially.
Just be aware of these things as you experiment.

Hope this helps...

I could'nt help but reply... All due respect! I've been revegging for lots of years and have had the same strains. I have never lost anything as to the things you mention. If you get all the stress out of the way at one time your GOLDEN. I've actually gained in vigor rather than the latter. This is no longer an experiment,for me! It's almost a science.

I do agree that stress can cause alot of problems! I have experienced loss of potency,due to heat stress. Slow growth has been because of over and underwatering. I've overcome all those variables.. That was way early in my game. Now it's several years later.

Ga.

[Salvein211]

Sorry for no reply for a few days, been very busy.

Yeah CGI it worked for me. Yeah I took cuttings about 2 weeks before the harvest, and 2/3 of them rooted(I took way more then I needed to be sure to have a full crop). I had a white skunk and a blackberry, and the sativa actually took root faster. Yes the skunk is great for sleeping, as I have insomnia and the blackberry is quite an upper for me. My cloning method? I take a cut off the plant as low to the base of the plant as possible, then a 2nd cut on the same stem under water at a 45 degree angle so no air bubble gets into the stem. Not sure if that can even happen, but have read it and it's easy enough to do so.. I then use a powder root hormone "Green Light" Rooting hormone, which is just a generic Lowes or Home Depot bought bottle. Dip the cutting and place in a rapid rooter plug, then regular tap water to soak the plug and under a very low intensity light with a ziplock over it. Gotta make sure the plug doesnt dry up which it will 1-2 times a day if you have 75+ degrees F. I don't use super thrive but some do at this stage. 24hr light. There were small buds on these clones, but I chose the stems with the littlest buds formed. It took about a week for a few to show roots, and another week to week n a half before they were ready to transplant into my net pots. It took another 2 weeks before they started to veg again, and in another week after that they started to explode. Some had up to 4 shoots in different directions and the growth was so compacted that some leaves curled and looked mutated. I LST'd and now I have up to 8 colas at canopy level. So as for the health of a plant after such a stressing, you just need good conditions for it to rebound in. I will say though, this is a slow process as if you had 2 rooms or more space, you would just keep mother plants.

Before Ga chimed in saying it's possible to reveg for years, I had never heard of it and always had Rob's opinion. (I have no experience doing it though) Just from what I've read. I've read that revegging pretty much ends a plants life, and the yield is half as much as I posted earlier. But that's very interesting Ga, you got me thinking about trying it. But it may just be strain specific, as some have great resistance to stress. Yeah with Hydro, the ladies prosper like I have never had before. I ran soil for years and could never get it right. Soil pH and lockouts, root bounding etc.. Plus transplanting so often, I just could never keep a healthy girl an entire grow. But if I do reveg and have success down the road, I'll revive this thread and post my success haha..

[jjm]

35 years ago - Yep I said 35 years ago.
I had a friend that harvested his crop. He had recently uprooted his plants and hung them upside down in black garbage bags to dry [roots and all] for about 2 days in a hot 95 deg + attic. When I found out I asked him if I could have 1 bud to try something.

He took me upstairs and I cut a 3-inch or so bud off the plant.

I took it home and using a razor blade and made a nice clean 45 deg cut about 3 inches from the bud. Then dipped it in root tone and put the bud into a styrofoam cup filled with soggy wet potting soil. I put the cup under a big clear glass street light globe and placed it under a regular shop light [2 fluorescent t12] fixture giving the cutting 24 /7 light.

It didn’t die and after a couple of weeks, I was stunned to see all kinds of weird long stringy growths emerge from the bud. As time passed the bud re generated into a very healthy plant, and all those long stringy things became branches that morphed into a shrub. After awhile the darn thing had bark on it like an outdoor yard bush. I kept the plant under the 24/7 light for about 2 years, and smoked many good joints off the leaves. It was so good that I had to put a lock on the closet door to keep it safe from college roommates wanting a hit!

When I had to move out of town for a job, I gave the plant to a friend.
TRUE STORY

[Salvein211]

That's awesome. Yes one thing I mentioned very early in my post is when the plants took root and started to grow, there were the weird looking leaves with no ruffle/ripples in the leaves, they were plain jane. And eventually the leaves revert to the natural normal leaves all of us are use to seeing. But your case is even more amazing, because you took a bud already harvested and cloned it :thumbsup: Oh what it was like 35 years ago... a younger buck like me can only dream about how he would cultivate back then haha...

[jjm]

Being young and a first timer, I never tried to do the 12/12 back to bud. I had no idea about how light worked as far as budding. I was just thrilled to see the plant continue to thrive and develop such a shrub from a bud.
Looking back I guess I was really lucky that it did anything sense it had been drying in all that attic heat for a couple of days.

[Faultline]

I have been growing Northern Lights for about 18 years now. A clone of a clone etc. I have seen no loss of vigor or potency.

[Salvein211]

Sorry to revive a dead thread, but I think it's worth while to share my results. So as the thread says, I cloned from a lady who was 2 weeks from harvest. I have now flowered and harvested those clones. The smoke is decent, but certainly not what it used to be. I had good conditions, no abnormalities, etc. So IMO, even if trying to save a strain, you will lose potency.

[MedicineMan11]

Taking a clone from a clone does not cause any loss of any kind. Too many people spread the rumor that is does. If any of you have experienced loss it was from some other stress.

[Minnesnowta]

I revegged a plant earlier this fall to save it, since I waited too long to take clones, and since then I've thoroughly enjoyed using her as a mother and flowered out her clones, so only one step away from the mother. I must say that the clones I have flowered are much better than the first time around budding the original mother. I don't take clones from my clones that I intend to flower since I would rather remove unwanted growth early before it gets the chance to reach a cloneable size, and focus all the energy on powerful bud sites. I have no reason to remove clones from clones, and maybe you're forced to start at the clone #1 level with your mother, but you might as well reveg and keep it at that. I don't know if it does reduce potency throughout the different generations over time, because I don't think there is much of a reason to even play with it. Idk thats just what I think, hopefully that kinda made some sense.

Edit: The other neat thing about revegging to keep a mother is that the second time through vegging you really get to shape her however you want. You can pretty much make a scrog type plant without a screen or trellis pretty easily, then flower whenever you want if it gets too big or something, chop it up, and reveg again.... I realize now that this is exactly what GaGrown had been talking about, and he educated me on the subject as well. I haven't ever flowered my reveg a second time yet... hasn't been that long, so I haven't been able to determine for myself if there is a loss in quality or some sort of genetic degredation. (spell check?)

Good Job